Thread 521036179

Thoughts on UBI?

i’m still gonna work because i’m not a piece of shit

let’s take it a step further

>>521036179 (OP)
Well if we're going to be printing trillions anyway.. its probably is marginally better then the current setup

>>521036179 (OP)
Yang was right.

>>521036179 (OP)
It's basically bribery by big tech to people lose their skills, but overall their main intention is to remove the entire population with skills so thst society can't be independent of AI.

>>521036179 (OP)
saying no out of spite. everyone's life should stay shitty in the amount of negative $1200/mo at minimum. america first.

>>521036179 (OP)
SNAP already exists. You buy food with government dollars, spend the rest on iPhones and whatever you want.

necessary as you didn't captcha

>>521036739
I'd rather depend on AI than on other people. People are unfit to serve one another in any way. Most of them are niggers or spics or bugmen. Would you want to depend on that kind of trash to run society?

>>521036179 (OP)
Ubisoft is a worse company than Electronic Arts.

>>521036179 (OP)
If dems don't run him in 28 they lose.
Probably lose anyway but still

>>521036179 (OP)
You aren't entitled to money from a country that isn't your origin.

>>521036922
Who will tell the AI how to govern, retard?

>>521036179 (OP)
I already get it via my neetbux so I don't care.

>>521036932
EA cocksucking shill

>>521036179 (OP)
long overdue

>>521036179 (OP)
Inevitable if you believe automation is the future. We shouldn't be forced to work dirty dull or dangerous jobs for the sake of pretend money if machines can do it.

>>521036179 (OP)
It's sorta funny UBI was more popular when it was irrelevant but now that you have actual AI unemployment people don't find it as intriguing anymore

>>521036179 (OP)
Absolutely not worth in Yang's implementation as that'd mean you would be losing on every single social safety net there is in order to pay for it.

>>521037130
What?

Battlefield 6 is based.

>>521036179 (OP)
You'd have to create a new global currency for it to work.

It will be introduced.
Just not the way people expect it to be.

>>521036179 (OP)
If we can remove 90% of niggers from their DEI jobs, where they can actually cause problems for humans, and instead send them home to sit on their porch and smoke weed for the same amount of money then I would consider that a win.

>>521036871
>SNAP already exists.
Does it?

>>521037344
Unless you think the government will be indefinitely shut down forever, yes it does exist

>>521036179 (OP)
Notice how all the UBI experiments haven't posted results? A couple of states tried some limited UBI experiments with real people. Strange how they haven't been screaming any good news about UBI right?

Where's the TED talks and MSM screeching? Heck, why haven't you fabricated some shit if it turned out it didn't help?

What actually happened? Did suicide go up or some shit? Did it just not work? Did spending go down?

>>521036179 (OP)
You implement it, after having calculated based on your current production.
Nobody ever needs to lift a finger anymore.
Productivity sinks.
You don't have the money for UBI anymore, then everything goes to shit. Because how do you plan on taking away a free no strings attached life to your population?
UBI should only be done if your country is obscenely rich in a valuable resource. Enough so other countries end up paying for your citizen's UBI.
Then there's garbage people. Literally all countries have ample groups of garbage people. Junkies won't stop being addicted because of UBI. :Low IQ people would continue shitting out multiple babies. Because babies also get a UBI payment.
You'd be paying people to exist. No one is that much special, to deserve being taken care off by the government.

precursor to hyperinflation

>>521037434
>What actually happened?
Oof. AI said they reported reduced employment hours and little impact on long-term financial outcomes. That a neutral result. UBI didn't do what you hoped did it OP?

>Some analyses of specific UBI trials have reported a small reduction in work hours and a decrease in annual income

I really don't think Jews are gonna give you plebs free money. Not without sucking their dicks first. You are instead going to be show the door to the MAID chamber and they will kill you.

The only way I can see UBI working is to cut all forms of government assistance, cut government by 75%, and mandate at least 25 hours of community service a week to those who don’t want to work.

>>521036179 (OP)
It was probably necessary years ago by now, but the 40 hour work week has been kept going for the sake of keeping stocks up.
Now that the economy is doing bad enough, the 150,000+ Layoffs in one month are proving that lots of jobs are essentially just employee-babysitting and aren't actually necessary.

It'll just be inevitable before too long. Real unemployment is nearly 40% with no relief in sight, people are becoming discontent, and it's not realistic to have 120,000,000+ people with no income.

Hint: Foodstamps, Section 8, & Welfare already are close to just being a UBI.

>>521036179 (OP)
It’s not gonna work. However, what will work is negative income tax. If you don’t make enough money in a year you get paid. But as a tradeoff abolish social welfare, including social security. Replace the decrepit pension system drafted during the pre-pill era with a Chilean savings system.

>>521036179 (OP)
It’s called “Planned economy” and there has never been a “planned economy” system that wasn’t endless poverty. Just look at USSR back in the day and now Cuba. Food lines that go for hours, nobody can afford anything, and there’s no production or anything resembling “decent” in standards of living.

Ubi only makes sense to the government if they are getting something in return, so like putting signs on your house or sensors, wifi nodes, cameras etc. Cant just expect money for existing you have to be atleast somewhat useful even if its just making sure a metal box is functioning daily.

>>521036179 (OP)
Only makes sense when combined with a Land Value Tax.

UBI with income tax would just be moving money around from working people to non-working people (and they'd all spend it where owning people can get it). UBI with LVT moves money from owning people to working people.

With AI and the automated economy it would accelerate all of these trends. UBI and income tax or similar regressive taxes would just shift money upwards to enrich the rich, and force everyone else into a social credit dystopia. UBI and LVT or similar sensible taxes would keep the automated economy and the participatory government functional for everyone.

>>521038167
Obviously doing this in a zogged society wouldnt work out well, in an ethnostate it would be fine, this should go without saying.

crazy how we're actually on the verge of everything we know coming to an end

Andrew Yang was right about everything. He was ahead of his time

>>521036179 (OP)
anti semitic.

>>521038167
UBI is basically just a bribe to keep society from collapsing. Food Stamps aren't given out because the state cares about keeping people from starving as far as we know, it's just because if enough of a population falls into abject hunger and poverty, the state falls apart.
It's hard for the people that actually can find a job to work it when ther's food riots and cannibalism running rampant.

Is joke?

Poof everyone has a million dollars. Same number of people. Same number of houses. How much does a house cost now?

That's how price inflation/currency devaluation works. Hope this helps.

None of you should be allowed to vote.

>>521038326
You just crashed the housing market. And capital is fleeing your country for safer havens. Hope you like tumbleweed soup.

>>521038798
If you think this is bad, ask them if deflation is good or bad, it’ll be hilarious.

>>521039264
Maybe their influence really should be reduced to zero. It's this kinda shit that almost makes me support a brave new world technocracy.

Not really. But holy moley.

>>521039251
How does that crash the housing market? It would act to reduce the number of very large landowners and increase the overall number of landowners.

Of course capitalists would like to avoid any taxes, right now they don't pay anything (their workers do). LVT would be the first thing in the modern world that had any chance at taxing it rather that taxing anyone that works for it, so there would be strange effects we haven't seen before. I don't know if capital would flee, necessarily, but they would spend a lot of money to prevent it, and they would then spend a lot of money to destroy any economy that allowed it to happen. This isn't quite the same as it being intrinsically bad for the economy, it's just that capitalists are quite willing to MAD over it. Even so it's well worth thinking about when considering UBI or LVT.

Really a lot of 'economic facts' are just like this - they're 'facts' because they're threats the capitalists have made explicit and would be willing and able to carry out.

>>521038798
It's like everyone believes it's completely inevitable that a smaller number of rich people will always own a larger and larger fraction of the overall economy.

>>521038157
It’s happening in Russia now btw. Want to get a real red pill on that country? Look up the subsidized mortgage program. Their entire home building economy is drive. Exclusively by handouts designed to drag down the interest rate for “socially vulnerable” groups. No handouts = no new mortgages. No mortgage = no housing. And that’s just the tip. Think the Soviet commie bullshit ever went anywhere? Look up the whole social handout system with freebies like free healthcare and such. It gets worse every year and the people aren’t getting any younger or healthier. Same problems but less aggravated exist in other ex commie countries, even if they seem somewhat functional. Whole industries exist just to shuffle papers because the laws mandating weren’t abolished. Many such cases.

>>521039998
If you tax something you get less of it. Increasing taxes on land ownership is a disincentive. People wont buy it anymore. They'll buy equities, crypto, etc, where the return isn't dented by your wealth redistribution scheme.

It crashes because people want out of that asset with this new tax vulnerability. You'd see a stampede form and the selloff would reach firesale level until scavengers arrjve. Securitized mortgages collapse. Investment banks fall. '08.

And capital flees generally because your government has displayed a willingness to rewrite the rules on a whim whenever it feels like taking your money. Would you leave your money with someone like that?
Neither will anyone else.

The non-property rights argument belongs to Murray Rothbard:
You can't centrally plan an economy. Even a purely angelic endeavour would fail because market signals (prices) are corrupted by intervention. Without accurate information you can't plan.

>>521040065
And they have powerful influence over government policies. You might say they're captured altogether by powerful monied interests. #1 gripe for guys like Jimmy Dore and most socialists for like 100 years.

Every time, without fail, it's "We need more government!"

If the government ran a restaurant would it be the best restaurant ever?

>>521038326
Based georgist. May I recommend some Silvio Gessel. His free land idea is a more retarded lvt but i think the core of his free money take is valuable. That is, that risk free interest is the ultimate rent seeking enabler.

>>521038669
Bread and circus is why no one has rioted yet I'm convinced. That's why the zoomers in the third world riot every time a boomer government tries to censor the internet like in nepal, indonesia, madagascar, ect. I think things would actually stay stable a lot longer if the boomers in the west realized internet freedom is the only thing keeping them from the guillotine rn.

>>521041516
This is the whole point. The default number of houses a person needs to live isnt 0. It's one so they have a roof over their heads. Also the supply of land is fixed. Land supply is highly inelastic and demand is highly inelastic at parts of the curve. This is why LVT is the only efficient tax and makes every economist wet their pants.

We haven't made an progress since 2018.

>>521036179 (OP)
>>521037788
I generally think UBI is advertised completely wrong. A negative income tax could make sense and is essentially UBI. As anon said, we are already subsidizing the poorest through welfare, why not just remove that and implement a negative income tax. Same shit.

Also I would make the point that it's clear there are a lot of bullshit jobs and employee babysitting. I agree the real unemployment is stupidly high. This makes perfect sense though when you realize that financial assets which are not productive out perform actual productive assets. Why the fuck would you invest in economic growth that is 1-2% a year when a treasury bond returns 4%? This is the key issue. It doesn't pay to be productive anymore because of rent seeking dominance.

>>521036179 (OP)
Imagine even thinking of UBI with daddy Trump in the WH and Republicunts in control of congress. Lmao

>>521036179 (OP)
UBI is inflationary

it's better to just get inflation under control and have jobs for people. if people are able bodied, they should be forced to work. if they do not, then they starve. prisoners also need to be all put into forced labor. everyone must WORK to build wealth.

If you are not certified disabled, you need to support yourself or at least convince someone else into doing it. Fuck taking away my money via taxes to support you. Starve, peasant.

>>521037580
this. stimmy checks have the same stupid inflationary effect (because they are "one shot" UBIs)

>>521036179 (OP)
UBI won’t happen until AIPAC is gone.

>>521042113
Why stop at land tax then? Why not land redistribution if nobody should have 0 land?

We agree the polarisation of wealth is a problem. I think you'd have less of it with less gov, less taxation, less central bank money printing. You'd also have less war, less price inflation which favours asset holding classes and creates an ever receding finish line for young people.

>>521036179 (OP)
either UBI or blood in the streets when AI takes all the jobs

>>521042784
>Imagine even thinking of UBI with daddy Trump in the WH and Republicunts in control of congress. Lmao
Imagine thinking Trump gives one shit about that guy

>>521038798
In fairness though, this is pretty much how it happens now (money out of thin air) except instead of putting a proportional amount of jewbucks into everyone's pockets at once, instead it trickles down indirectly from the Blackrocks of the world. Really all we're arguing about is taking some of the billionaires' gimmedats and peeling off a little bit to keep the proles from revolting.

>>521036179 (OP)
2000 bucks a month would go a LONG way to keeping homeless people off the god damn streets and away from my property.

>>521042947
>just have jobs for people
No see you can just have everyone be fucking underemployed because you let the government collude with corpos to devalue workers and automate shit. Fuck your jobs. UBI is not inflationary because you can simply just not give it to billionaires and not print more fucking money for them, it also doesn’t raise prices too much because the world is now an international market. If some dipshit wants to make his chair the price of a ubi check, I can order one from China directly. They can’t enforce that pricing globally.

He government already prints billions as it is, but just gives to 20 people instead of 20 million because of kickbacks and gdp obsession mixed with insider trading. Underemployed jobs with this much corruption is not sustainable. You have to give up one.

It would be great for those investing in weed and alcohol.

>>521036179 (OP)
/pol/ in a nutshell

>>521036179 (OP)
That guy getting shilled here 5 years ago was really something else. I wonder why he hasn't been relevant since.

>>521043296
lol
most of the midwits here dont want to admit people spending more is good for the economy. the pennies they'd UBI out to the poor are nothing compared to the demonic grift fags like Obama Biden and the Bush family have gotten away with.

We SHOULD be taking care of citizens.

Oh yeah, and those invested in std medications.

Just kidding. I'm sure the poor would start a million lemonade stands and some would develop into clean energy solutions.

>>521036179 (OP)
I don't think we should have Universal Body Inspectors. It seems like an infringement of our rights, we would be giving away something for no reason. At no point in history did we have something like that and it sounds strange just thinking about it.

>>521043249
your brain is rotted from jewish economics. read Schacht

>>521043036
This is Silvios argument essentially. I disagree. I think that the free market is a power decentralized system that we embrace. I also think that the socialist idea that people should be connected with the fruits of their labor is a good idea. However, the socialist / capitalist dichotomy we are faced with currently is fundamentally wrong. The Austrian/Chicago school ideal of a rising tide lifts all boats seems to be provably false, but I think that is only true in certain circumstances. If you can restrain rent seeking behavior i.e. capital begetting capital without productivity I think that the rising ride argument can still be true.

I agree less gov, less taxation, is correct. The problem with the central bank isn't that they print money. The problem is that monetary expansion is in private hands. A government need sovereignty over it's monetary creation otherwise it ceases to be sovereign which is where we are currently at. Inflation isn't inherently evil. The problem is when ever we have gotten inflation it has been accompanied by a reduction in purchasing power for the average wage. This isn't what happened in the 70's where we had super high inflation but wage growth kept up with or out paced inflation. I prefer demurrage to outright inflation. The idea is to keep monetary velocity constant and control supply to handle inflation instead of letting velocity free float and controlling supply indirectly through bonds like we do currently. Overall, I think our biggest fundamental problems are monetary and what has been done to the younger generation is disgusting. At the heart, rent seeking behavior / usury is the enemy I think

>>521043296
reality

>>521036179 (OP)
It's a fine notion, but it demands one of two things: either a static population, or an ever-increasing economy generating the wealth required to cover the cost. In other words: fascism.

>>521043191
I don't agree we should offset inflation caused by money conjuring by taxing some of the conjured money, which lets 'them' keep printing and taxing as if it's legitimate, which it isn't.

Just have honest money. Gold standard. End the fed.

I like the idea of getting rid of all welfare that is dependent on anything like a single mother or low income. 1000 a month seems too high, though. Should be like 500 to start. AI going to make half the jobs irrelevant and not starving is nice. I can also work a day or two less per week and focus on my other business and not ruin my body.

Obviously necessary. There are more humans than there is demand for meaningful labor.
Of course Glenn Beck/Shapiro types will tell you it's the start of "the beast" system or communism or whatever. Nevermind they want you to work until you're 80 and have your kids die in for-Israel wars.

>>521036179 (OP)
UBI logically requires a firm authoritarian regime because who's to enforce the trust agreements to not deflate the purchase power of currency. The biggest issue here is any business from micro to mega corporations. You have to keep these in line for UBI to stand a chance. Regular people will just be good boys and follow law, will the oil company also follow law? Certainly they won't out of kindness. So i think UBI requires a massive amount of rework of the current world order from the law perspective. Digidal ID being part of it for example but also much more.

>>521043683
jews will naturally rack up the cost of everything if everyone has more expendable money

>throw the jews down the well so my country can be free

>>521043517
Again, money conjuring isn't the issue. Gold standard is in fact actually Jewry. Currency should not be a store of wealth, but only a medium of exchange. The problem with money printing right now is that we are aiming at 2% inflation and 1% of that is going directly to the bankers who are expanding the monetary supply without creating any value. A growing economy is fundamentally deflationary all else being equal. Despite the abuse that our system has suffered, it is in fact beneficial to have a little bit of inflation or demurrage to encourage monetary velocity to stay high all the time and prevent people from hoarding currency. This means that the sovereign of the currency in a growing economy should in fact literally print money, instead of manipulating the bond market and paying interest on the money it "printed". This way it can fund projects that are for the public good and productive, or provide liquidity at 0% risk free interest for potentially productive projects.

>>521036247
Good goy, mr schlomo needs that mkney for his public and private social engineering projects.

>>521036179 (OP)
ME CHINESE ME PRAY JOKE ME PUT THOUSAN DORRAR IN YOUR COKE

>>521043683
Emperor Diocletian couldn't set prices for even a week in his own capital city, upon pain of death by imperial decree, and no dice. You gonna put a chip in all our heads or what?

Every interaction would have to be monitored, every widget produced at gunpoint, no black market possible. Prices stay set if you can eliminate free will and every ounce of autonomy.

>>521044476
Eventually probably yes, brain chips. But only considering current limits UBI = less work force = more free people. UBI needs strict authoritarian oversight = more government gestapo type jobs (like ICE).

>>521036179 (OP)
People will still work to make enough just to stay away from niggers. This is kind of what happens already.

>>521043961
They may tell you 2% is the target. Things I'd buy that for a dollar in 2019 are about $1.70 now.

I'm Ron Paulian with the fed. How many wars would the US have fought for Israel if they had to finance each campaign from the existing money supply? Seems to me the Fed is the top tool of Jewry in 2025. Not gold.

>>521044132
>THOUSAN DORRAR

>>521043517
All true, but it's never going to happen. Unless you think we'll also be repealing women's right to vote and ejecting all jews and non-whites from the country.

>>521044705
"More free people"

Riiiiight.

>>521036179 (OP)
Probably eventually necessary if the automation and AI will take the jobs.
Do not be mistaken however, UBI will absolutely be used to fuck over people. Like the minimum wage, it will not be tied to inflation and increasing it will be politically charged topic. Then the government will eventually mandate some sort of "voluntary service" to be tied to gaining UBI fully, whether that be signing up for draft, or masking mandate, or becoming biological battery will depend on what sort of crisis they manufacture the next.

>>521045104
Brother please understand. The inflation numbers were bullshit in recent years and severely underestimated. The fed and central banks are jewry and need to be destroyed. Israel needs to be de funded by america. The fed is the tool or jewry in 2025. However, gold is also the tool of the Jew. Read about how bimetallism fell and why the gold standard was implemented. Then read why the gold standard failed. It is because with a gold standard the financiers can control still control liquidity. They start exchanging currency for gold while at the same time reducing liquidity and it collapses your economy. I know everything I am saying like inflation is not evil and printing money is not actually bad sounds like jewry because it is used for evil but it is not. Read about Napeloeons france, England's struggles before 1694, the two failed attempts before success to implement a central bank in america, nazi germany, fascist italy and so on. Central banking is a scourge but it is specifically by subverting good ideas to their aims that they dominate.

>>521045222
Idk man. Ron Paul had some momentum back in the day and there wasn't anywhere near today's broad and enduring dissatisfaction. I could see Rand Paul/Massie taking a flamethrower to it.

I know, as if. But the Dems are unwanted trannies. And whats anyone after Don the con gonna pitch for the Rs? "America First, no but seriously, we really really mean it this time, scout's honor." Everyone around him has miga stink. This kills the Republican party.

>>521036179 (OP)
It's pointless. Here's why:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Retconned/comments/1m0px7o/attention_at_least_one_rapture_has_already/

From the post:
>And don't be deceived by the fact that the masses aren't talking about this info. In actuality, this info is the most important thing on the planet right now—by far. Nothing else even comes close.

>>521045634
The gold/silver thing I heard just suffered from ratio fluctuation. I think it's one of the few parts of the US Constitution which everyone agrees was a mistake.

Obviously I'm biased toward Dr. Paul and Rothbard but recommend some links or books and I'll check it out.

>>521045634
Btw you sound like a Darryl Cooper martyrmade subscriber. If not, the dude has been slow as molasses to put out his WW2 stuff but his library is excellent. Some free stuff on spotify, I think.

Can't believe I'm shilling for his slow ass but he's awesome.

>>521036179 (OP)
nah the poor should just die lol

>>521036179 (OP)
absolutely retarded

>>521046056
>>521046324
I am a little drunk I am not going to lie. Bimetallism isn't fundamentally a bad idea imo if you can have a floating rate. If you have a fixed rate you are going to get fucked by arbitrage regardless and that is essentially what happened, you are right. IMO holding a diversified set of commodities to back your currency which float at market value could maybe be viable if you think a currency should be a store of value. Still it's kind of hard to do, and even when most countries have a gold standard say, it's not the general public that can exchange for gold, only foreign governments holding reserves. What I am saying is holding diversified commodities could maybe work if only big players could trade them and they floated freely at market rates. I digress though. I wish I could think of a better reading list. I feel like you have to read older people to get an idea and then more modern histories that are biased to get an idea of what actually happened. Arthur Kitson : a fraudulent standard isn't a bad start. It's short but doesn't really present the whole argument at all. The point is really that the way we generally control our monetary system is through monetary supply. If you understand Silvio gesell properly or even just realize its m2 * velocity then you realize this is inadequate. The thing with the gold standard is that by going on a gold standard you are also inherently artificially lowering the price of gold if your economy grows. Also gold is a limited resource. It's very vulnerable to people hoarding. The real problem is you allow private banks to expand the money supply through debt creating currency. Then private individuals hoard the singular and limited resource of gold while you are trying to artificially hold the price down. Suddenly you have a inflated currency that is backed by gold.

>>521046987
Obviously eventually it will, and like de beers with diamonds, the jews control gold. When you are aching for gold, that is exactly when the bankers will refuse to sell and constrict their lending. Suddenly m2 and velocity shrink at the same time and your economy is fucked. Then they can propose bail outs to enrich themselves, and use their wealth to buy cheap land/commodities and consolidate their power.

Fundamentally what I am trying to tell you is don't invest in gold like everyone says. Invest primarily in productive assets and secondarily, if that fails, in a diversified set of commodities in which you can store effectively.

I think it makes great music!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-50CeNelnA

>>521047110
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ikd2qeCZxyA&list=PLZ7GdlPK75_tXJYVzkCId2SYEjBLjnU9E

This series is pretty good. I think this episode is probably the one that talks the most about the gold standard but im not sure.

>>521047110
> Obviously eventually it will
crash*

>>521036247
There will be no jobs, anon.

>>521047381
Trump was right. The golden age has begun. You've seen the graph of productivity rising but relative wages being stagnant for decades? The government will be forced to give back to the people because the alternative is death. Problem with death is that it can lead to a regime change and that is simply not something the system wants to happen. If i were you, I would get an education because if you won't have a piece of paper proving competence in the coming years you will simply not be able to reap the rewards.

>>521046987
Not gonna lie either, I'm an ignoramus. Lots of lolbertarian podcasts (not the faggy Chase Oliver kind) with an austrian slant, zero economics books consumed.

Your talk about velocity is over my head but I'll consider the hoarding issue, whether gold or fiat. Will also check out Kitson. Thanks, ice ape.

>>521047739
I honestly have never heard of darryl cooper but I've listened to like 10 mins of a podcast at this point. Instantly realized he is a neo-platonist which is my type of person. If you want to understand economics read the people around 1930 who were trying to figure shit out. Keynes won, but he was just copying Gesell and adding some exploitative shit. George is good, maybe some social credit. Understand their inspirations like austrian and chicago school but also unfortunately marx. Everyone is retarded including me. It's only in an attempt to be less retarded that glory might be achieved.

>>521047739
>Hoarding
is just a dirty word for savings. Consume-at-all-costs types like to use it.

>>521047956
Saving is not the issue. Capital begetting capital with no production is fundamentally usury and is evil. You should be able to save for your retirement, but not have it grow at 10% yoy with no input. Also you should remember the best investment naturally is the investment in your community and other people.

>>521036179 (OP)
UBI is based because it will expose the artificial scarcity that keeps most people poor and - if implemented properly - will completely change the balance of power between employers and employees.
No more dancing Walmart slaves.
No more begging for tips at restaurants.
No more school cafeterias open during summer break because hungry children need to eat, while food surplus gets destroyed by producers in order to keep prices high.
It's time for a post-scarcity society.

ubi is pointless without price regulations, which america does through "subsidies"
so you'll be giving people ubi.
and you'll be paying off landlords, realtors merchants producers and service providers to keep their prices low.
guess which side you'll be dropping more money on?


>>521039251
i really dont care about richfags.
all these threats if you do x they will leave
good let them eternal summer in figi or live their lives in new zealand bunkers.

>>521036179 (OP)
its a necessity if you want to keep capitalism going

>>521037434
None of the UBI tests im aware of have actually tested UBI, they have tested some kind of weird charity program.
For UBI to actually be UBI it needs to be applied to the entire society, not just some individuals within it, and it needs to be permanent so people do not see it as just a temporary amount of money you have 'won' by being selected.
Only then can you actually test the idea.

>>521036179 (OP)
Lenin's Ledger economy with AI. Slavery by way of energy points. HELL ON EARTH.
>You've used to much energy today, no air conditioning for you!

>>521047942
He's the fella caused all that kerfuffle on the Tucker show a few months back.
His current project is WW2 from the German perspective.

His first series was called Fear and Loathing In The New Jerusalem concerning the establishment of the state of Israel up until 1947, and it's something like 23 hours. The first 20 or 30 minutes are the sort of apologia you'd expect, but after that it's pretty down the middle imo.

He's got a 3 part Epstein series. Near 30 hours on Jim Jones, the don't drink the koolaid mass suicide preacher. I remember Blacks and Jews as an excellent history of the civil rights alliance in early 60s America, through its fracturing in the late 60s, and the rise of third worldism identity politics in the black power revolutionary 70s. He doesn't gjve verbal footnotes but quotes plenty and it's clear he does the research, which is a welcome change from pundits simply opining or guys who rehash their dozen quotes and never get any new ones (Dave Smith, who I like, but...)

>>521036179 (OP)
I'd prefer they'd change the planning laws and stop importing millions of people first, otherwise it would just cause house prices/rent to surge even higher, wiping out any gains I'd see from the money.

>>521049470
That sounds pretty up my alley desu. I'm about 1 hr into the tucker podcast rn and I am enjoying it. I've gotta look into him. I started "from dawn to decadence" a couple days ago so I gotta commit to that first, but I'll definitely look into his longer series after that. Thanks anon, I appreciate it.

>>521036179 (OP)
That AI better be real good because all you will be doing is battery farming stupid poor third worlders who won't be able to fix a thing if anything breaks.

>>521036179 (OP)
a ubi in effect means redistributing money from whites to non-whites

>>521036179 (OP)
Never happening. Why would those who own everything want to subsidise a bunch of useless eaters? When the technology allows it, 99% of the population will be culled.

>>521036179 (OP)
you already have a huge welfare-dependent population of dregs, how is it working out for you?

>>521036871
>>521037344
theres a very low income requirement. not all walmart employees even qualify for it. so you can be working poor and still not qualify for help with food. this is one of many reasons everyone tries to get disability payments

>>521037279
Goy opinion. Worse than battlefield 4 13 years later.

>>521036179 (OP)
They can always just print more money like they always do.

>>521049778
Glad to hear.

If you see him guesting on different podcasts he clearly comes armed with canned replies, but I forgive him for being cautious about coloring outside the lines given the clit level cultural sensitivity to his topics.

This 4 chan thing is ok, "hont' deyo!"

>>521036179 (OP)
imagine relying on the government to survive. how's that been working for snap recipients? UBI is slavery.

>>521044024
This idiots will never get it.

>>521036179 (OP)
MAGAtards think it's cringe but will soiface and shout "BASED" when Trump hands them out, that is if he even actually ends up sending them out

>>521036179 (OP)
>Thoughts on communism and Keynes
I won't need to kill you because you'll starve to death lol

>>521036179 (OP)
It needs to happen soon.

They're telling people that ai is going to take most jobs. So what's their plan?

>>521036179 (OP)
unironically good, wholesome the best solution to many but not all our problems.

The entire economy is at the point where a small minority of people produce more than people can consume. It's set up so that a small minority does everything and everyone else just mooches off it without adding any value whatsoever.
We are already past the point where there should be UBI, but there is no practical way to implement it. If you gave everyone UBI then what does the working class gain from working? Every worker can just do nothing and get paid, and then the entire system collapses.

The only real way UBI can be implemented is by having robots do all these jobs. We aren't even close to that right now.
The only other way to implement UBI is communism. State owns everything, state tells citizens to do their 3 hours of daily work to spread the labor. Which wouldn't work.

>>521036179 (OP)
Complete fantasy utopianism that would just accelerate hyper-inflation and economic collapse.
The reality is that there is no magic solution to the pyramid scheme currently being operated in the West. They need to accept that infinite growth is an unsustainable economic model and open borders and UBI aren't the solution, they're just heaping more fuel on the eventual funeral pyre.
Stocks cannot grow forever, the model is fundamentally flawed.

>>521053706
God you people are so retarded. If everyone got paid $1000 every month let's say, everyone would be on equal ground. They can still work if they want more, but it wouldn't be required to simply live.

>>521053793
I don't understand why they cant just do a BC/AD thing with the entire system. If there was an actual political will they could probably put weights on previous metrics as inputs and then adjust them as necessary as they are outputted into the new system. The new system would be the same in the sense of people being able to own property and have assets, with similar or perhaps a more restricted set of incentives, but different ways to achieve what "winning" looks like. Probably couldn't happen without a united global population initiative, and we've seen how those all turned out

>>521038157
nonsense. While too much planning is bad, the GDR was successful and would have thrived if Russia wouldn't have been fleecing it. Communism is usually brown and cuba or african countries will not thrive under any system. Just like the GDR, China is socialist/communist to a degree. It's thriving.
Russia is a multicultural entity, the largest to ever exist. It cannot function and it won't, except for matters of war.
Lastly, the US is also a planned economy to a large degree, particularly when it suits the jew.

>>521053936
t. retard
Most people who make all your shit don't even make 1000 dollars a month.
Why would someone work backbreaking labor to get maybe 300 dollars a month when they can just do nothing and get paid 1 thousand?
You'll do backbreaking labor and kill yourself for an extra 30% more money?

People who raise cows can't even afford to eat steak and that's after all the programs that help farmers.

>>521036179 (OP)
Excellent tool to thin out of inept corrupt bureaucracies.

>>521036179 (OP)
Still can't believe this dude came out offering a straight up bribe.

>>521054062
You forgot the part where those people are all being replaced with ai and robots, retard.

>>521036179 (OP)
Sorry, only 33rd degree Anglo-American Freemasons and their registered pets are allowed the Presidency.

Fuck yeah! Free peanut butter!

>>521036179 (OP)
The state should pay people the amount it costs to house a prisoner if they want us to stay out of prison.
The lowest that comes out to is at least $22k/year, based on the average cost per prisoner in Arkansas.
Free healthcare should also be provided for everyone, again to keep people out of prison and getting it for free there.
Anyone who disagrees with this is a useful idiot.

>>521054112
I didn't. I talked about it in my post that you are too retarded to read.
Zero % of those jobs have been replaced at the moment.

>>521038167
We live in a world with fake jobs for brown people and females stop gaslighted that stuff is getting done right.

>>521054216
And you answer your question.
>You'll do backbreaking labor and kill yourself for an extra 30% more money?
Not me, but some people will if there's something they really want.

>>521054514
You really are fucking retarded. We are talking about what is going on right now, not an imagined sci-fi future.
It's unlikely you will live to see a significant AI/robot takeover of the job market. Maybe you will see all the trucks and taxis become self driving in 20 years.
Maybe spend less time on your nigger infested twitter where people scream about muh AI stealing their ''jobs'' because someone generated an image with dalle.

Absolute delusional looney troon.

>>521042947
You're a crab in a bucket
Bet you are a circumcised crab too, wanting to snip other crabs penises

>>521054788
They're already replacing people with ai. 20 years? Try 20 months, retard.

>>521054883
Name any examples that are not related to porn for pajeets or nonsense ''jobs'' like translators
inb4 this one chinese factory is automated, as if factories haven't been mostly automated for the past 50 years

>>521054883
What sort of job are you doing that a chatbot is going to take from you in 2 more weeks?

>>521055025
Go do your own research.

I don't care about UBI as much as I care about being able to get a fucking job.

>enough jobs for the amount of people there are in a country

Problem fucking solved. Shiver me fucking timbers cunt.

>>521049194
Are you alright, Mr. Lahey?

>>521055185
Mentally ill low IQ retard gave up LOL
You are so uneducated and stupid I can argue your own point better than you. I know some examples of jobs being replaced by AI. One that is fairly common now is cutting grass. A lot of places have that fully automated now.
That's less than 0.000001% of all jobs. Maybe we will live to see 2% of jobs being taken over by AI robots when self driving cars get approved for large scale use.

>>521054020
Globalism has been a complete disaster for Western civilisation.
We're bringing in brown people from incredibly corrupt nations with completely different values and cultures and then wondering why everything is going to shit.
The fact that they aren't at all discerning about the people they're bringing in tells me that there is something deeply sinister behind it all, likely a coalition between communists, Islamists, Evangelicals and Judaism. They all have slightly different end goals but general agreement on many issues for the time being.
This is probably the most dangerous time in the history of humanity and we are standing on the precipice.

The only people who seem to really get it are the people currently being called "the woke right".

>>521042947
Everyone here was on some form of UBI from age 0 - 18. Explain where the money from that came from.

>>521055287
Hell considering the AI bubble is about to blow up soon, I’d push that date back a couple more decades while we work out global supply/economic crises at the same time.

>>521055600
You people are so fucking dumb and clueless. You have no idea what's really going on.

>>521036807
ok, Barron

>>521036179 (OP)
That's a chink who gives a fuck about what he thinks. What is it with these migrants in White countries wanting to rule over White people?

WHY ARE YOU DUMB NIGGERS REPLYING TO SPAM

>>521055600
The AI bubble bursting is just going to cause rich people to have a meltdown. The AI bubble isn't caused by ''AI is le bad'' but investment scams and people having too much faith in the stock prices going up.
I don't think the bubble bursting will have any significant effect on the actual progress or the lack of progress for the tech.
The AI bubble bursting isn't going to stop the development of self-driving cars. At worst it will kill some of the free browser AI products like dalle and suno, because the investors will not want to keep running these services for free.

There is also the chance that the AI bubble will continue to grow as it's being fueled by the new innovation. Like if tomorrow they release some AI controlled robot (not that shitty one that is remotely controlled by real people) you will see the stocks go up, and then if something else is released it will go up.
The bubble is fueled by gamblers who just want the stock to go up. It has nothing to do with the actual technology.

>>521036179 (OP)
Making people pay for lazy fuckers to stay home and do nothing is slavery and nigger tier behavior

>>521036179 (OP)
With companies doing mass layoffs replacing workers with bots and ai to maximise profits then its going to be necessary

>>521037209
That means They are winning

If you gave me $1000 every month, on a no strings attached replenishing money card, AND if we can keep the price of everything low, that money will directly go to improving my livelihood. Once I'm ok, I would have no problem putting that money back into the economy and even public services. UBI pays for itself. But only if most sectors are fully automated and the work output exceeds a certain level and yes, someone else said you'll have to implement certain policies and laws for people to operate morally within a UBI system. It can be done but only in a sophisticated society.

>>521055220
>I'd rather do make-believe work than just get the money for free

>>521038798
You're retarsed if you think it wouldn't be an improvement, at least with regards to the housing crisis

>>521056460
This. Bingo. A lot of these people believe sitting 8 hours and pretending to work all day actually adds value to a society. They scrolled through their phones for like 6 of those hours. They didn't earn anything lol

>>521055996
Which one of those companies were you working for? How's the job search coming along now?

Is just knowing what has room for improvement

>>521056437
>1000 a month is life changing money
>Still refuses to just get a part time job to earn it himself.
God damn, you niggers set the bar low for yourselves and still can't reach it.

And a lot of you are already FOOLS if you ask the question "Where does the money come from to pay for this system?" As if money isn't created out of thin air already. It's Fiat currency folks. It's as valuable as your belief in it.

>>521056947
European countries have more social safety nets than non-european countries. You simpleton. Lol

>>521042046
My main problem with the premise is that they ignore that a government is made up of humans. They act like it is some omnipresent entity or something.

>>521056762
It's about control of the slaves and their time, you could put pretty much every female out of work immediately and see no difference to the economy, HR is unnecessary, most office jobs are just looking like you're doing something, even most labourers stand around trying to look busy
>>521056862
None of them

>>521038798
This is a ''retarded'' ''argument.'' No one is suggesting that you print money out of thin air and give it to people.
UBI would inevitably have to be taken from someone and given to someone else. It's not adding money that doesn't exist to the economy.

This is some retard who learned about some very basic libertarian talking points and then just absorbed them incorrectly without ever understanding the talking points.
We already have a lot of things that are like UBI but without the U part. Food stamps, healthcare, all sorts of public services, I'd even argue that half the jobs are UBI with extra steps where you have to sit in a building for 8 hours to apply for the UBI.
UBI isn't extra money printed and given to everyone. It's a monetary value attached to the excess produced by the economy. The production has become so efficient with better tools and automation that there are no jobs to be had. This excess is then given back to the people, but you can't just divide all the grain and all the iphones and send them to people, so it is given to them as currency from the budget.

The issue here isn't inflation, it's that this would make people less willing to work.

>>521056508
You sound like the guy in the lifeboat who gets thirsty and drinks seawater.

>>521056762
I hate this. It makes a foundation for future hellscape when automation takes off.

>>521057518
And you think constantly growing inequalities have no effect on housing prices

>>521049167
I know people have ran some AI models on it (I know I know not a true test) and I think the outcome was most people buying more expensive cars and spending it on retarded shit. The AI test was giving them enough money to cover a 2 bedroom apartment if I recall. I will reply again if I can find the info, going to look.

>>521056762
If I was given $2000 every month, I would become ultra-productive in a real sense because I could finally self-govern. UBI = Self-governing. Think about it. With $2000 every month I could afford to dedicate myself to my actual hobbies and interests and not have to worry about going hungry at the end of the month. A job is much more appealing when it's not straight up slavery and you have some amount of autonomy.

>>521057335
Someone with some sense. I agree. It would work but you have to overhaul the entire system as well as the idea of what a "work day" means. I'm sure you have seen those clips of girl bosses at video game/tech companies who are getting paid $100/hr to eat avocado toast and start work at 2:00pm. "Totally serious work! Definitely not a moocher!"
But a substitute algebra teacher at a public school is lucky if he/she gets to 40k a year. "Yeah he needs to stop being lazy!" Highly unsustainable lol

>>521057379
Normies would still work under UBI, lots of people would still go. What do you think is stronger, human Greed or human Sloth?

>>521036179 (OP)
In 2020 a free $2000 was already low, now it would be laughable.
Unless you hinge it to high performing indicators that ensure it remains well above cost levels its a total waste of government funds for a short period of efficacy.

>>521036179 (OP)
it doesn't work because there are too many people who'd much prefer living in poverty on someone else's labor than to lift a single finger by themselves.
this
>people will naturally become productive because they want to do something, and UBI enables them to follow their true calling
is simply not true.

>>521057965
Think of all the talent that goes to waste because of poverty. Poverty itself is the worst condition of humanity.

>>521057379
>The issue here isn't inflation, it's that this would make people less willing to work.

I'm not trying to hate on you man, and I'm not saying you're wrong. I just...I hear this point a lot and I don't buy it. Humans of the current variety that are mid to high level economic operators are very much into the whole materialism, keeping up with the Joneses, splashing on gutter poors in the rain with their sclass type people. In fact, MOST Americans are like this, even the poors. People will always want to earn more resources to throw money at some piece of pussy wearing high heels

>>521057379
If these are all naturally popular social safety net programs everyone supports then why do you need government to implement them?

One of those retarded libertarian questions statists never address.

>>521057787
Exactly, After a certain amount of time, your needs are already met and you can use that money to start your own projects . I have never seen a human get free money and NOT do anything. People who are against UBI have no real reason to not see the benefit of it. Crime would fall dramatically. Public health would improve. UBI pays for itself. I hope people can agree on a solution soon

>>521058189
poor people are poor for a very good reason in almost all cases.
there is basically zero talent lost to poverty thanks to the free school educations the state provides.

>>521036179 (OP)
If there are no jobs you obviously have to. Then people can use the gibs they get to pay for internet grifting and the like.

>>521057965
Those people can already do that and even if you send them to 'work' they'll be contributing nothing and living on someone else's labour anyway, you'd just be paying them for their time

>>521058475
USA doesn't have free education. You are speaking from privilege.

>>521057585
It sounds like a hellscape, until you realize that it's just the dawn of a new era. New and old skillsets will still exist. Demand will probably skyrocket for a lot of new capacities, almost everyone will become an "entrepreneur," it's just that they won't have to be literally made or broken by their relative success. Of course they will want to be successful, but they don't have to be worried about being made homeless or to starve. The one thing about UBI that is worrisome that doesn't get mentioned enough is, what's to stop a large group of people from pooling their UBI together and forming a militarized microstate, buying yellow cake, or otherwise funneling all the UBI money into a drug cartel operation?

>>521036179 (OP)
It’s inevitable

>>521058365
From everything I see the majority of people know fully well that they will never be rich. They live paycheck to paycheck. They don't work harder or get a second job so they can make money. They pay their rent and for their food and that's how they live.
Everyone wants more money but for 99% of the population there isn't anything you can do about it. They work because the alternative is dying. Once you are already in the labor system of course you want to get a promotion or a raise. That doesn't mean that if they got UBI they would work.
It depends on the person but the higher the UBI the more people would drop out of the workforce.
For me if I got 2000 a month I would consider a part time job. I would not be willing to waste 8 hours of my life every day. 2000 would cover all my costs and there isn't anything I am itching to buy that is expensive.

>>521037183
Your fucking retarded if you think these tech fuckers are going to just provide an idyllic life for you.
This technology will be used to enslave you and eliminate you. In that order.

>2025
>Trying to make Yang relevant again.

>>521058782
>what's to stop a large group of people from pooling their UBI together and forming a militarized microstate, buying yellow cake, or otherwise funneling all the UBI money into a drug cartel operation?
I'm sure global surveillance and automated AI drones will take care of that. The progression of surveillance tech and data mining for building consumer profiles seems to be moving towards "we want to predict everything that people do, and who they will become, and shape humanity to become mindless consumers even more than they already are."

>>521057965
It's more true than not. Clearly people wouldn't work meaningless jobs if they can get community and respect from somewhere else, which is at the core of the "problem" (for elites). And obviously the lower castes would just booze and smoke and fuck and party.
But yes, White people who are not Untermenschen DO want to be productive.

Put in reverse, we cannot legitimise society through making it as shitty as possible (and good for jews who get more gibs than niggers) only to turn around and say
>this is good for everybody!

Or, as a third approach:
>why do you intend to give niggers, muslims and jews hypersocialism but not to us?

>>521057679
I think wealth polarization is the result of capture and control of government by powerful private inerests.

Any "gubment gonna save ya" scheme will be hijacked, same as they all are.

Now you think the same elites who screwed you will come to your rescue, and I'm the bad guy.

They're going to lie and fuck you every time. Stop believing some benevolent power is coming to your aid.

>>521059390
This is demoralisation at its finest, because once you are that blackpilled, you've been successfully depoliticised.
>(((You're so right, why participate in a nasty society when nothing will create good or meaningful outcomes, goy?)))

Well, if you have ethnically homogenous entities, most of your decisions will benefit your coethnics, usually per default. Many such cases.
Obviously there's something like corrupt elites. And jews are corrupt elites on steroids.
The big question is why or how these elements could go and take our nations hostage?

>>521057954
Free 2000$ is worth much more in rural areas and you wouldn't need to live in a cite where all the jobs are

>>521059904
UBI would be nice, but it would be of the essence to do other reforms at the same time, like a drastic reduction of bureaucracy. You want to let people use their newfound freedom to create stuff, not fight red tape.

>>521057965
You're wrong. I worked in road and highway construction for 7 years. I love the work. More than that, I love the team work. I've met some awesome guys who were electrical Foremans and line men who love the work too. It's anecdotal l, I know. But men naturally want to feel useful at the end of the day and create a sustainable world. We all need clean water, we all need power, we all need resources. The idea is, if you can create a system that causes less stress and grants more autonomy, why wouldn't you?

>>521036179 (OP)
>Thoughts on UBI?

>>521059829
And if state authority has been captured by bad actors should we

a. Disempower the state
b. Further empower the state

The blackpill is you're pushing is helpless reliance on the government programs. It doesn't have to be that way.

>>521036179 (OP)
UBI is literally the only option in a sufficiently automated economy, and we're almost there. None of the objections to UBI are economic facts, they're ethical sentiments. e.g.
> Working is good for you
> I don't approve of how people might use their free time
> Laziness is bad even though it won't effect me
> God said you have to work
> You just have to earn everything by working even if it could be free
> People are just supposed to work ok?
> Not working is bad for your character

The last one is particularly ridiculous, as anybody who has played Factorio understands. Automation frees up your time for more valuable pursuits; only retarded boomers who have done nothing but smoke weed and watch television complain that "everyone will just do drugs and play video games" because that's all they can comprehend doing with time at all. Nevermind that it's supposed to be a free country, and people are supposed to do whatever they want "in the privacy of their own home" and if that's drugs and video games it's none of your business anyway.

>>521048918
>if implemented properly
oh yeah I'm sure the people currently sitting at the top of society using everyone else as slaves are going to willingly share

>thread still up
This is good.
Like UBI~

>>521060765
100% correct you are