Cena heel run done correctly

>>18104398 (OP)
its better but its only complete if aspinell retains a few times and jones jumps him while celebrating a victory

>>18104398 (OP)
Jones was never a face. He was a heel his entire run.

>>18104398 (OP)
A heel run that doesn't elevate anyone is not a good heel run.
With that being said though a top star retiring before they turn into grandpa is entitled to retire without putting anyone over

>duck everybody
>get arrested a few times
>cheat
Man what a great heel run

>>18105654
this
most manufactured, can crusher “”””GOAT””””” since merriweather

>>18105687
Manufactured? He was youngest UFC champ in history in the most competitive prestige division. They didn’t make it anywhere near easy on him for years. His 3rd fight was against Stephen Bonnar at 21 years old. He beat every big name still fighting and every challenger for 2 decades. Most of those “cans” he crushed were HoF’er’s and former champs still in their prime and juiced to the fucking gills in some cases. The only thing you could maybe say is the judges gave him the benefit of the doubt. But really that’s how it’s supposed to work for defending champs.

I mean he did ruin the HW division and retired as the GOAT, so yeah

>>18105812
Reyes beat him. Santos beat him. DC beats him without roids. Lost the Aspinall story.

>>18106014
>he actually won both those fights
>he avoided heavyweight DC because he knew he was a beast at that weight
>asspainanal is a complete loser lording over a dead division and he has NO ONE to fight now that jones laughed in his face
yeah

>>18105812
beat old middleweights and got gifted decisions against anyone who was his size

>>18106043
Beating TRT Vitor is no joke

>>18105812
All true however if he accomplished everything why didn't he just retire instead of ducking a fight?

Only fight Jones ever lost was against Gustavsson

>>18105533
Jones was a face until he turned on Rashad Evans

>>18106174
He lost to Reyes.

For the record, Jon would have beat Ngannou

>>18106174
mayhaps on planet cazzie retard where dustbin and dookie are all time

>>18106235
That was close but Jones won. Most Reyes strikes werent big. Gustavson sent Jones to the ER.

>>18106043
Everyone is old when you’re the youngest champ in history and youngest guy in your division. I can’t imagine who you think is naturally a middleweight he even fought. Maybe Machido is the only one I’d say or Vitor but Vitor was on every PED on earth. None of them were old, athletic peak is usually the 5 years between 28-33. That’s when guys in sports win belts, win MVP’s, lead their teams to championships. He beat a murders row of contenders. Most of them roided on an insane level.
>>18106014
Maybe on planet retard. The closest he ever had to a loss was against Gus. Santos and Reyes he was head hunting highlight reel knockout’s and couldn’t deliver. He controlled both fights. Do you think one of the greatest wrestlers in the sport just forgot how to grapple? He was trying to take their heads off in spectacular fashion (flying knee for Santos and spinning elbow for Reyes) When he was getting outstruck by Reyes he clinched him and spanked him like a child. He could have done that at any point. He was trying to give the crowd a show. His hot piss was for cocaine and dick pills. The one for the Cormier fight was so ridiculously low it wouldn’t have been detected in normal testing. He was on some probationary intensive screen and it could have been caused by anything and would have had 0 effect on his performance. He publicly raped Cormier and made him weep like a little girl each fight.

>>18105812
He was great when he was young but you know he's been the most protected guy in MMA the past 10 years, c'mon man

>>18106119
Simple brotha. He wanted a giant king fuck pay day. It doesn’t make sense to give him one though. There’s 0 chance Jones vs Aspinall gets higher buys than Jones vs Stipe. So why pay him more? Jones was in a holding pattern until Dana got desperate enough. He could have been waiting to see what happened with Poatan. If he would have won there was a chance he moved up to fight Jones to try for the 3rd divisional belt. Maybe he gets his money then. He was just waiting on the money.

>>18106305
nope, most of them were undersized and had a million miles on their body
and he lost to gus, santos, and reyes
who were all of similar size to him
interesting

>>18106323
Think about what you’re saying and remember how long ten years is. 10-5 years ago he fought Cormier twice, Gustafsson twice and Glover who would go on to be Champ as soon as Jones left.
The last 5 years there was Covid and his move to Heavyweight. He humiliated the champ in seconds and choked his brains out. It’s not his fault the division is decimated.they wanted a big money fight with Stipe. Was he supposed to do the Cena US Open and take on all comers? The guy is almost 40 and has never been knocked down, he’s one of the last reliable draws (never a mega draw though) I think he earned some good will and an easy schedule.

>>18106345
And they offered him a lot of money for Aspinall. Face it, Jones was shit scared of him.

>>18106258
>Jon would have beat Ngannou
Jon couldn't finish a trash can like Anthony Smith in 5 rounds you fucking retard. What exactly is he doing to Francis?

>>18106390
If he lost those fights shouldn’t the record reflect that? If he ducks fights why would he fight Gus again? There’s no contractual rematch clauses.
He beat Rampage, Ryan Bader, Bonnar, Rashad, Machido and Shogun in a matter of months as a kid in his early 20’s. All of them besides Lyoto would go on to be Heavyweight champ in UFC or other promotions. All of them were in their prime. He makes people look undersized because built fucking bizarre and has the longest reach ever almost. All those guys are Heavyweights. Their walk around weight is like 250.

>>18106410
There’s money and then there’s money anon. If you’re rich and you’ve never lost what is the proper pay day to maybe get knocked the fuck out? To have to train harder than ever to fight a young hungry gigantic guy 15 years younger than you approaching his peak? There’s a number but it ain’t less than the fight you just had.
That’s terrible business. Better to go out on top undefeated if you can’t get the bag you want.

>>18106345
Dana offered Jones 20 million dollars. It wasn't about money. Jones just didn't really want the fight

>>18106418
Standing up until he gets hit once and realizes it’s different from getting hit by Anthony Smith. Soon to be followed by wrestling him and submitting him with a guillotine.
Never forget Frances was beaten by Derrick “My Balls is hot” Lewis. He also cannot wrestle.

>>18106472
>Source: my anus
If you’re going to make up numbers make them at least reasonable anon. No one has ever made more than 8 million for a UFC fight. You think the UFC is going to give Jon Jones 20 million to not break PPV records? They know how much he draws. Aspinall is not a draw. The fight would not outsell the Stipe fight.

>>18104398 (OP)
>hay peedub please discuss mma with me!!!

>>18106521
>Aspinall is not a draw.
You're a faggot, Aspinall is draw but Jon Jones would have beaten him because Aspinall ground game is shit and Jon Jones would have exposed it easily. Jon Jones vs Aspinall would sell huge PPV's

>>18106521
>Jones expertly avoided putting himself in danger of losing by fighting so infrequently. To his credit, he still won. But fans began questioning what would happen against a high-level opponent in his prime. A megafight with Ngannou never materialized in part because Jones reportedly asked for "Deontay Wilder money" ($20-30 million), and we have seen something similar with Aspinall. Jones chirped through social media and diminished the importance of the fight.

https://www.espn.com/mma/story/_/id/45563114/nobody-surprised-how-jon-jones-retirement-played-out

And this was BEFORE it came out the Jones and Dana came to an agreement. 20-30 milly was Jones final ask, which Dana accepted. THEN Jones backed out again. Then Dana said okay fuck it, retire.

>>18104398 (OP)
He DID ruin UFC

>>18106305
That Light Heavyweight division was so damn stacked. You had Lyoto Machida, Shogun Rua, Rampage Jackson, Rashad Evans, Dan Henderson, Thiago Silva, and I even think Forrest Griffin was a light heavyweight at that time.

>>18106521
Jones vs Aspinal would have been the biggest non-Conor fight in company history.

>>18106577
Anon do you have trouble reading?
The article is quoting Jones talking about fighting Francis. That’s where the direct quote is from. He actually said he wanted more than that to fight Aspinall. Nowhere did Dana or anyone else working for the UFC publicly say they would pay even half that. Dana is being salty and said something to the effect of
>he would have gotten paid
That could mean anything. Primarily that means he would be paid a very large sum that we think is fair. It does not mean we were willing to pay him this ridiculous sum he requested and he still refused.
I think maybe you just have trouble parsing news articles and already have an opinion about this topic. I’d point out again, the biggest draws in the history of UFC (Brock, Connor) guys who set PPV history never got paid half of that number.
If Brock only made 8 to break PPV records why would you agree to pay Jones 20? To give the fans a good show? Kek.

>>18106030
>he actually won both those fights
In no sane world can you think Jones won against Reyes.

>>18106685
>Nowhere did Dana or anyone else working for the UFC publicly say they would pay even half that.
They didn't publicly say it, but Jones wanted that much and Dana said that they came to an agreement so you can infer from there. Also it's a different era. They have TKO money now. WHat Brock was getting paid in 2014 has nothing to do with today

>>18106665
It wouldn’t even be the biggest Jon Jones fight of all time. Why because dorks on the internet talk about it? Being charitable I’ll say You have recency bias if you believe otherwise. Brock had identical or higher buyrates to Connor. No one knows who the fuck Aspinall is. It’s not Boxing, heavyweight is not the glamour division in UFC it is in boxing. Jones vs. Cormier was all over ESPN before they even had business deals with UFC. It was damn near mainstream because of Jones issues. They have 20 years of Jones PPV data. They know how much he draws. Moving up to heavyweight did not suddenly change that. The highest estimate for the Stipe PPV was 800k which is less than Jones vs Cormier.

>>18106716
Oh I see, you just don’t know what you’re talking about and you want to say something that sounds good. Carry on.

>>18106659
Exactly. Griffin was right in the midst of that and had unlimited stamina and heart. Also Dr. prescribed TRTVitor. It was THE division. It was the prestige division. Anons are insane calling it washed up middleweights. Jones ran that shit for a decade once blitzed through all them in a row. I understand not liking the guy for any number of reasons or being a scumbag. I choose to call it HOF heel work. That list of people he dominated is crazy though.

>>18106737
If I wanted to bait I'd just go to /heem/ and shitpost. There are a ton of journalists and fighters saying Jones wanted 20-30 million. Rogan confirmed it on his podcast. Apparently Colby heard 40-50 (I didn't hear that one until just now when I did another search), etc. And then you have Dana saying that he and Jones came to an agreement. So if Jones asked for 20-30 (confirmed), and Dana said that the fight is on and that he and Jones came to an agreement, only two things can be inferred. Jones got what he wanted, or took a smaller deal. Jones taking a smaller deal is fucking absurd because he has all the leverage, so you can only assume that Dana agreed to the 20-30. That's about as cleanly as it can be explained. if you still disagree well then, nothing else can be said.

>>18106774
Does your range of thought allow for people to not be telling the truth? That Dana would make Jones (who just held up his HW division for years but is still a HOF who will have dealings with the company) look like he’s being unreasonable without outright attacking him after he retired? Or that he doesn’t want to sound like a cheap Jew who can’t come to terms with his fighters? Something he is constantly accused of.
Of course you could also infer that they agreed to a number lower than those ridiculous ones. Either way it’s not happening.
What I’m saying is, from a numbers perspective you do not agree to anything near that. It matters what Brock and Connor made. They were the biggest draws in the history of the sport. c Connor was making 6 million. Brock made up to 8. Jones got 2 million base for fighting Stipe (less incentives and the results) it drew less than Jones vs Cormier. You think that UFC would agree to give him 20x’s that? To draw less money on PPV? Why? You think that if they did, he would turn it down? UFC being TKO (even though they were owned by Endeavor before the merge unlike WWE) makes it less likely. More corpos to answer too. They’ve shown in WWE they love trimming the fat. All your saying is you heard on Joe Rogan and the internet the Dana (who doesn’t even have the ultimate say) would have given it to him but ooops too late. It doesn’t add up.

>>18106418
>he doesn't know you can wrestle in MMA

>>18106846
>Does your range of thought allow for people to not be telling the truth?
Well if they were all lying, of course I am wrong. I'm assuming that they were telling the truth because no party in this scenario has a motivation to lie. Meanwhile Jones has plenty of incentive to ask for ridiculous amounts of money that he knows Dana won't pay him so that he could say "Dana wouldn't pay me guys I wanted to fight Tom I swear!" instead of just telling the truth; that he was ducking.

>>18106905
Brotha the reason for asking for a huge payday is simple: he has no time left to get one. This the end. If he gets knocked out it really is the end for his drawing potential. The odds are not super in his favor if he fought, Aspinall is a giant dude that can strike and has a black belt in BJJ and he’s just way too big and much younger. If he loses he can’t hold the belt hostage anymore and his drawing power is kneecapped. As long as he’s headlining he will sell out the arena and do 600-800k in PPV buys. They know this. There’s 2 dozen events and years of data. You don’t risk losing the leverage you have to make the same amount you just did. Whatever is left in the tank you hope to make a super fight. Jones vs. Aspinall is not a Superfight. Stipe is more of a draw than Aspinall is right now. Maybe a fight with Francis could have got him a bigger payday especially if the Riyadh Season fund helped pay for it. Maybe if Poatan won that’s a bigger payday. But 20 million is crazy. He probably would have fought for 12 but even that is 25 percent more than anyone in history. They’re just not giving him what he wanted. He’s not a dumb guy. Maybe questionable but he’s shrewd. He would go out on his shield for life changing money. He also just got arrested again which had something to do with it.

>>18106706
He doesn't care, all he cares about is the W next to Jones' name in the history books and that he was LHW and HW champ despite the fact his LHW career was him consistently beating guys smaller than him and when he actually fought someone of comparable size he gets lucky with the judges and "champions advantage". Then he fights like one can for the HW title and retires just so he can have that paper acclaim. That anon's the type of guy who suddenly started following the Golden State Warriors 2014 and the Chiefs in 2018, and was a Pats fan before that.

>>18106955
You're definitely right about a lot, Jones wanted that superfight payday. He was throwing around names like Francis and Pereira. I guess whatever they offered him wasn't enough for him to tarnish his legacy and potentially go out losing to Aspinal. Likely we'll never know because Dana is pissed and if it's ever brought up he might try to smear Jones' name, and Jones will never in a million years admit to ducking anyone.
>He also just got arrested again which had something to do with it.
yeah I saw Cheal on his show talking about it. Real shame this dude just cant' fucking stay out of trouble

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ucwdwZ0cNA

>>18106768
The Light Heavyweight and Bantamweight were my favorite divisions back then. I haven't watched a ton of MMA recently, a lot of guys don't stand out to me desu.

>>18106445
lmao you're retarded and actually know nothing about mma at all

>>18107100
I don’t wanna suck the guy off. I just grew up watching him fight and he’s an all timer. People forget so fast. Just putting him in his proper place in the history. When he dropped the fake Christian routine he also had excellent heel work on the mic. Most of those fights are so many levels beyond entertainment wise. Flying knees, spinning elbows, landing german suplexes on guys. Even the wrestling was entertaining and not boring Dagestani humpfests. Guy is definitely a problem child. All those stories of doing coke and fucking in favelas in Brazil before fight night. DUI’s and leaving the scene and he’s still doing it. Hard to imagine you’ll see his like again. Rather see him retire than get beat up by some no dimes overgrown Brit with bad teeth.

>>18107113
You’re right anon. He lost all those fights and all those guys I mentioned were actually 171 pounds and 45 years old and were bums anyway. I’m gonna go smear some shit on my wall talk tomorrow okay?

>good ufc thread on /pw/
so /pw/ isnt retarded. you guys can actually have some good conversations. its just that you can have them about literately anything but wrestling lmao

>>18106418
Anthony Smith beat Gustoffson after that fight and was never the same. IIRC Smith's next loss after Jones his fucking teeth started falling out. Jones fucking destroyed him and his only wins from then on where subs. The Thiago Santos was infinitely worse to watch and I think Jones lost it but Santos was also never the same after the fight. Jones genuinely destroyed everyone he fought against by the end.

>>18107136
Yes. That's been this board's MO since before we got ousted from /sp/

>>18107157
Didn't Jones fuck up Santos with the oblique kicks or am I think of someone else

>>18107178
yeah he ruined his legs and santos was never the same but jones also went utter bitch mode after that and it became a split decision

>>18104398 (OP)
>fuck you you're not on my level
>you're not important enough to waste my time on
>I wanna face people that actually deserves to have a match with me
Would be dimes
Also based Jonster making redditspinall fans seethe because he refused to acknowledge the overrated flavor of the month charisma vacuum anglo

>>18107244
he big league aspinal kek

>>18106345
By all accounts the UFC was willing to give him the money and he accepted before backing out for one reason or another. Weirdly enough theres was no mention of whether it involved fighting Tom because his whole side of the story was that the UFC told him to be ready and that's it. Jon's told the UFC his plans and we can just infer they kept trying to push him to fight anyone for months after that and he wouldn't budge. So in a way the entire problem with the HW division being a shallow deadlock where nobody wanted to fight was Dana's and the UFC brass being unwilling to strip him.

>>18104398 (OP)
We could've had Jon vs Pereira kino if the favela retard didn't get dry humped like a submissive bitch by Ankalaev

>>18107178
Santos also fucked himself because he delivered a gnarly calf kick early on that slowed Jones down straight away and a thigh kick after that but then Jones started checking them and throwing his own. There’s one near the midway point he checks and I swore Santos broke his own leg it sounded like a gunshot. He kwabbed himself. Jones was also headhunting a huge impressive KO ala Connor trying to increase his drawing power. He didn’t shoot once, he didn’t clinch once. Zero seconds of wrestling playing to the crowd and almost took a decision for it. He came within millimeters of taking his fucking head off with a flying knee though.

>>18107244
Jon Jones is the best for several reasons, this being just one of them.

>>18107384
The correct answer. All he had to do was win. Shit really he could have vacated and moved up and no one would have had any issue. Pereira isn’t a huge draw but he’s over with the fans and he’s entertaining. That 2 division champ vs 2 division champ with 3rd on the line would have sold itself no matter who was fighting. Dana fucked up by letting this dimeless britbong be interim champ and even being in the conversation. He’s a CAW.

>>18107519
Modern UFC really has no draws left huh

>>18105572
It elevates Aspinall cos the guy the booker of the company calls the GOAT is too afraid to fight him. Would rather retire tham step into the cage against him. Aspinall could start calling himself the man that ran Jones out of the sport to get heat

>>18106561
>>18106665
You guys are such faggots. Aspinal, as much as I like him, is not a draw. Jon Jones himself, historically, is not that big of a draw. Go back and look at his gates and estimated PPV buys and he gets mogged by several others in UFC history. This isn't a huge money match, it's just that retards will claim it is because it's one of the few programs in the company with some real heat right now.

>>18106258
I'm still fucking salty that we'll never get to see Jones throwing oblique kicks to Nganou's reconstructed knee.

>>18107522
UFC basically ended after Connor vs Khabib, they were the last mainstream draws.

>>18107522
Combat sports are like wrestling, there's only a few legitimate draws at a given time, and the UFC hasn't had a significant one since Conor got flushed.

>>18106706
Watched it 3 separate times and at no point did I ever think Reyes won. Reyes did fuckal and was whiffing punches all night.

>>18106014
He literally beat DC without roids. He tested positive for coke not roids the first time

>>18107782
The first 3 rounds are absolutely clear for Reyes. Jones only won round 5 clear and round 4 was debatable. That was one of the most clear robberies in UFC history.

>>18105533
He was a tweener if anything. Always a Babyface against DC.

>>18107782
Reyes won the first 3 rounds. That was a doozy of a decision, even Jon looked surprised when he got announced the winner.

>>18107782

>>18104398 (OP)
This is how the end of Reign's reign should have been booked. He fights guys like the Rock and just constantly ignores Cody until he vacates and retires.

>>18106258
Jon cant strike like that lmao

We need to just allow off-topic threads thinly veiled as wrestling-related because these are the only threads where the discussion is bearable (and honestly usually better than it is on the home board of the topic)

>>18108803
Sorry anon. Its against the rules, but we can add another waifu general :)

>>18106864
Why didn't Jones wrestle bum Smith in round 1 and submit him? Why didn't he wrestle Stipe and submit him instead of beating up a retired 42 year old?

>UFC is sucking really hard nowadays
>Suddenly MMAfags start coming to /pw/
Is this a cope

>>18107136
>Good UFC thread
Need more complaining about dimeless roster and dagestanis ruining the promotion

>>18110304
But pro wrestling sucks too.

>>18110304
They laughed at us getting kicked out of /sp/ and now we have an entire board for ourselves while they stay in their shitty general.

>>18108801
Kicks are harder than punches and his kick cracked DC

>>18111749
/heem/ makes up like half the activity on /sp/ outside of soccer games

The last real HW champ?
>>18110304
There's always been an overlap between the two you jabroni loser

>>18111749
DC is a huge wrestling fan

>Blind Item #8 This legendary UFC fighter is going to retire rather than fight again. I think he just wants to live with his boyfriend quietly somewhere

OH NO NO NO

>>18110177
The crowds love striking. Guys that can wrestle fall in love with striking sometimes too. Jones submitted Gane for the belt in seconds. There’s a chance he could do this to most of his competition. Shit like that is actually harmful to your PPV buyrates. >>18108801
He obviously can’t punch like Francis. Jon has very unorthodox fan friendly striking though. He’s all Knees and elbows and spinning moves. Also the bicycle or oblique kicks.
>>18115516
Pretty sure he’s an Undertaker mark. Not sure why I’m remembering that but I’m pretty sure it’s true. Blacks love The Undertaker (except Lebron)
>>18107522
Not really, no. As of right now there’s no real draws. Not like Connor, Rhonda or Brock. There’s reliable draws and a lot of them are older. There are guys that fans love but their performance is all over the place. Jiri Prochazka is a guy fans love but he’s never going to be a draw. Venom Page pops the crowd but he’s old and never going to draw. Masvidal is beloved and that Colby PPV actually drew very good buyrates but he’s old and worn down. Strickland is over with fans but he’s retarded and overly cautious in his fights. He wins in boring ways the grabs the mic and apologizes. Pereira is loved by the fans but he came into UFC old and
Just lost. Volk is old and will never be a draw. You can tell who they are really pushing for: Topuria, Paddy, Gerry, Bo Nickal. Aspinall. Dana had a massive boner for O’Malley but he blew it. None of these guys seem like they will be crossover stars.
>>18108751
Tweener is right. He had the Nike contract and wanted to be a face and a star but he’s a natural heel. You see what he’s like when he thinks the mic is off.

I love how the Jones/DC off air interview inspired the Rollins/Riddle one

>>18104398 (OP)
why was dana such a mark for him

>>18115927
>Ronda gone
>Khabib gone
>Conor gone
>Ngannou gone
>Izzy flushed

is /pw/ watch 317 with /heem/

>>18108744
Very few split decisions go the way of the challenger. I can only really remember Cejuda vs Might Mouse. The unwritten rule is that to be the man you to beat the man. Convincingly. So a finish or an overwhelming unanimous decision. Reyes out struck Jones. Jones could have taken him down at any point. He didn’t clinch until round 3 or 4 and when he did he could do anything he wanted to Reyes. What he wanted to do was get a huge KO and he just didn’t do it.

>>18116013
Watching now. Only interested in the main events and the Hermansson fight and he just KO’d so fucking bad that he’s still on the ground and twitching 2 minutes later.

was a solid card bros

>>18117199
Talking about ducking…tonight made Islam look like a massive ducking dodging faggot for moving up. Scared of short king GODpuria

>>18117645
Yup. Also I hope Paddy isn't actually next because that would be boring

>>18117673
Kinda like Paddy actually. He shouldn’t go anywhere near that fight. They’re trying to do an angle about hand sanitizer or something? Kind of like a Jericho vs Kane over a styrofoam cup of coffee. It’s stupid. Paddy needs a few more fights. Topuria should put on 15 pounds and chase Pisslam up to Welterweight.

>>18117742
I like him too, I think it would be boring because Topuria would heem him pretty unceremoniously.
>Paddy needs a few more fights.
Exactly, don't hotshot him