finally got around to watching old WWF stuff since current WWE sucks ass right now, decided to start from the post-mania RAW (March 24) to the April 28th episode, I don't want to go head first into full-blown attitude era just yet, I wanna see the transition, also wanna see Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels in their prime too since they both are no longer active by 1998

im a PG baby and was literally not alive to see this for myself, i got no nostalgia glasses, so lets se how it was like back then

>the biggest angle of this period is the Austin-Hart Foundation blood feud, very kino and is practically the only thing worth watching RAW for, by this point, Stone Cold is at his prime and is already the WWFs most popular guy judging by crowd response, anti-american heel Bret is so good as well, he can actually be amazing on the mic and at playing a character when he's not just the "I wrestle really good" guy that he was for most of the New Gen era, I'm also pretty sure about a solid third of every RAW is dedicated to this one angle, with frequent segments peppered each episode, its so unlike modern day RAW/SmackDown where every angle is neatly given its own little segment or two, it does make it feel like its a live developing story, rather than the structured format of today.
>Downside is, anything other than the world title scene or the biggest angles are POORLY, poorly developed. the midcard and lowcard is extremely grim, the wrestlers are barely given or any time to promo or to show off any character, the most they are getting is a subpar, thrown-together match for 5 minutes, this is something modern WWE does much better by giving midcarders the necessary screentime to show off
>worst still, since this is New Generation, the undercard is mostly bad, dimeless cartoon gimmicks performed by people knowing they aren't moving anywhere up the card and are clearly just there to cash a check, neither the crowd or the performers give a shit.

>>18131327 (OP)
Quality post, might not get a lot of replies but I appreciate you OP

Ryback Rules

>>18131345
FEED. ME. MORE.
Love the Big Guy. I really hope he gets one more run in the WWE. I'd get a great return pop

on to specific wrestlers, already covered Stone Cold and Bret so:
>The Undertaker is doing the exact same thing he's doing here in 1997 as he does in his later years , you can compare an Undertaker promo from a RAW from this time to one in say, 2009 and its the identical, I like it though, the only difference I can notice is he's much slower in the ring back then than later
>Mick Foley as Mankind is awesome, his promos are as wonderfully deranged as you expected, everyone remembers him for his extreme bumping, but his character work is way too underdiscussed and underappreciated.
>Paul Bearer is doing good work as well, that high voice makes him all that much more satisfying to see get beaten the shit out of him
>Rocky Maivia is one of the most boring wrestlers I have ever watched, he's the prototypical generic babyface who always smiles and does his best and is happy to be here that a lot of modern day faces struggle with, too many to even list, his only only personality is that he's a third generation wrestler and his dad is Rocky Johnson and he's also of Samoan Heritage
>Hunter Hearst Helmsley is boring as fuck too, he has no promos and his only purpose seems to be the guy they send every RAW to have matches with another midcarder, he also now has Chyna with him by this point, who is also silent, he's feuding with Goldust, who atleast is a good promo
>I dont even want to talk about the other dimeless bitches that populate the undercard, they all just suck

tldr

>>18131327 (OP)
>>Downside is, anything other than the world title scene or the biggest angles are POORLY, poorly developed. the midcard and lowcard is extremely grim
Get ready for another solid year of that. It’s a miracle that they were able to pull through, the combination of Austin going nuclear and Vince turning into the best heel of all the time is literally the only thing the show has going for it between Mania 14 and Summerslam 98

>Brian Pillman returns here, and he's very good, I can see why people loved him to his day, his crazy praying christian thing he's doing is awesome af, RIP legend
>In Your House 14, April's PPV, the first half sucked and is complete filler, nothing more to say, but was saved by a decent world title match between Undertaker and Mankind, and a #1 contenders match between Bret and Austin, strangely, for some reason, both of these matches descended into a No-DQ style bout with chairs and steel steps being used in front of the referees, even Vince called out why the refs aren't calling the match off when they were all very blatantly breaking the rules, even more hilariously, Bret-Austin III ended in a DQ win for Stone Cold when the rest of the Hart foundation predictably interfered
>Another thing to point out, holy shit there are A LOT of DQs and Non-Finishes, im pretty sure the vast majority of any match involving a main eventer would end in some fuckery one way or another, run-ins are also very common too, if you think today's level of interference is bad, go look at a RAW at this period

>>18131373
WWF at this time is half pointless boring shit, and half watchable angles, I can see why WCW was the more popular promotion back then

one more thing, I dont know who the hell is booking at this time because most of the matches, particularly the TV matches seem to be randomly thrown together out of nowhere, its literally "heatless bangers" except the wrestling isn't even good because this was 1997

>>18131384
>>Another thing to point out, holy shit there are A LOT of DQs and Non-Finishes, im pretty sure the vast majority of any match involving a main eventer would end in some fuckery one way or another, run-ins are also very common too, if you think today's level of interference is bad, go look at a RAW at this period
RAW and Nitro did this for years.

>>18131424
in hindsight, WCW's golden age of the NWO dominating was just week--in week out run ins every single time

>you know remember Gang Warz

>>18131636
At least they had cruiserweights on the undercard

>>18131327 (OP)
>I don't want to go head first into full-blown attitude era just yet
this is a meme anyway. the bones of the attitude era are from early 1997. by july 1997, there are wrestlers charging towards the commentators table to confront Vince McMahon, letting it be known to viewers that he was never just some commentator but the actual owner of the company.

>>18131736
cruiserweights were massively overrated

>>18132024
I would have went straight to Survivor Series 1997 (where the scratch logo debuted), but Bret would infamously leave after that and Shawn only had 5 more months until his initial retirement, as mentioned earlier, but I wanted to see Bret Hart in his prime, and I only saw Michaels in his later career renaissance.

>>18131327 (OP)
>I'm also pretty sure about a solid third of every RAW is dedicated to this one angle, with frequent segments peppered each episode, its so unlike modern day RAW/SmackDown where every angle is neatly given its own little segment or two, it does make it feel like its a live developing story, rather than the structured format of today.
This has been a very big problem in wrestling since the 2000s. On Nitro and Raw you would have major storylines running throughout the whole show and different people interacting with each other. Nowadays it is like every feud exists in a vacuum and it makes the show really dull. In WCW and WWF you had the nWo and Corporation storylines running throughout the whole thing, across multiple segments, instead of just being confined to the main event

>>18132063
A good place to Attitude fully coalesce in all but name, but still have time to see prime Bret and Shawn is from the Raw after Summerslam. Survivor Series is already too late, at least for Bret.

>>18131409
The booking committee at this point was Vince overseeing a weird mix of Patterson, Cornette & Russo

>>18131368
If you’re in 1997, Hunter was in the dog house after taking the heat for the curtain call. Prior to that he was cutting promos and getting vignettes on a pretty regular basis. He had a pretty active feud with Goldust at the start of 97 that was pretty entertaining.

>>18132087
this is why I greatly enjoyed WWE from 2012-2016 because for the first time since the early 00s the storylines from lower card to main event all crossed paths often.

>>18132063
You honestly picked a good spot to start. Shit really kicks off after Badd Blood ‘97. Unfortunately you lose Pillman, but you get Kane in return. I personally consider Badd Blood the official unofficial attitude era starting point.

>>18132373
>the official unofficial attitude era starting point.
for me its the Wrestlemania 13 double turn

>>18132029
this. now every weight class is a cruiserweight. they should've listened to the Hulkster. "cruise or wait, brother"

Based OP. 1997 is a great start year for the Attitude Era. IMHO, I'd say Survivor Series 1996 is the best start point of the transition from New Gen to Attitude Era, where I'd say WrestleMania 13 was the official start of the Attitude Era.

>>18131327 (OP)
OP, do yourself a huge favor and watch any post-Ringmaster Austin promo from 1996-97. Any of them
It can be from a Raw episode, from a PPV, even from the Saturday morning Livewire show they had back then
Austin's later promos, while also really great and widely praised, weren't as amazing as these promos were. In 1996-97, Austin was still hungry. You could tell he put his all into those promos and genuinely wanted to be the top guy in the company. It's no surprise that the fans cheered for him despite him not being anything close to a traditional babyface

dank post OP. I came here to say I am watching PPVs from about WM 13 onwards on the 'cock. I'd watch Raws too but they aren't on the 'cock. Born in 1990 and didn't have cable as a kid so my main exposure to WWF started when SmackDown debuted, but was still a big WWF fan before that from video tapes. Anyway it is interesting to watch the rise of the big stars and the evolution of the show itself. Wrestling and pop culture were so much better back then.

>>18134868
Thanks I will have to check this out

>>18131327 (OP)
At that point, WWF decided to get rid of the tricoloured ring ropes to all the red on the later April 1997 RAW episodes.

Bumping a based thread for 1997 enjoyers

>>18131327 (OP)
1997 is GOAT WWF and it's not even close. It was all downhill when Bret left ableitst.

I'm so glad someone else realized how boring and mid Undertaker is.

WCW in 1997 is great too.

>>18132373
>Unfortunately you lose Pillman, but you get Kane in return
what a dogshit tradeoff kek
kane starts out hot and just gets worse and worse from there