Making Tiffany Stratton a babyface is a career ruining decision.

>>18177224 (OP)
No it wasn't. She was getting cheered for and her catchphrase chanted. They had to turn her. The career ruining decision was her never learning how to do more than the one same promo she cuts every time she speaks. She's a one trick pony (not to step on Mercedes' hooves). She has no depth as a character. She has no range as a performer. She's a walking catchphrase flippy shitter

>>18177236
>not to step on Mercedes' hooves

>>18177236
That's not true at all. Bron Breakker gets cheered because he's awesome to watch, but he's still a heel. Tiffany is not super talented at talking, but she worked in NXT. That character was awesome. Making her a babyface is incredibly stupid.

>>18177224 (OP)
she has some of the worst mic skills in the business and it makes me wonder who she's fucking to be getting a top spot in the women's division

>>18177250
When she was a Barbie doll heel it didn't matter that she didn't have a lot of range.

>>18177224 (OP)
IT'S TIFFY TIME!

>>18177245
>That's not true at all.
It is
>Bron Breakker gets cheered because he's awesome to watch, but he's still a heel.
And this is a mistake too. Why do you think that whole group isn't clicking? Fans want to sing Rollin's theme. They want to cheer for Bron as he spears the fuck out of people. They want to cheer for Bronson when he splashes the fuck out of people. They're a babyface faction being presented as heels with a heel manager. There's a reason every show ends with them getting cheered over the babyface they're beating up. They should be turned too just like Tiffany was
Bottom line is this. If a wrestler can't adapt to the role they're given then they're failing. God knows Tiffany isn't struggling from a lack of opportunities. MITB, women's champion, had Trish be brought back just to suck her off and put her over in Trish's hometown as a team, Mania feud and win over Charlotte goddamn Flair, and now they're bringing Trish in AGAIN to put her over even further. It's not at all unlike all they've done to try and get Lyra over on Raw, only with Tiffany it's been even more heavy handed. If someone, ANYONE, in that position isn't coming out of it as a success then that's entirely on the performer and their own shortcoming. The failure is theirs to own

>>18177261
>When she was new no one knew how one dimensional she was yet
No kidding

>>18177289
She didn't need any range for her heel character. She was perfect and she was over. Now she's a babyface but she still talks like a heel. That's the fundamental problem.

>>18177283
>It's not at all unlike all they've done to try and get Lyra over on Raw
Oh you're just mentally ill.

>>18177224 (OP)
she worked better as a heel or tweener, weird to turn her with so few heels

>>18177236
she was turned face because they booked her with charlotte, seems the idea was to make charlotte face but she was booed too much and WWE creatives thought it was heel heat instead of "you suck we dont like you"

>>18177314
>WHAT?!

>>18177307
>She didn't need any range
Yes because she was new. So anything she was doing would seem fresh. If you ate a new meal for dinner tonight it would seem like something you've never had before and you'd like it and you'd want more. Now have that same meal every week for the next few months and then years and no fucking shit the exact same meal that seemed great at the beginning is going to tired and something you get sick of

>>18177325
But enough about what the audience chanted at R-Truth during all of his recent promos

>>18177307
A lot of the female talent has the same problem. Zelina was supposed to be a face but she talked like a bitchy heel. Same thing with Michin, Bfab and the other midcarders.

>>18177314
>Introduced as top name Becky Lynch's best friend
>Gets a proxy feud with Liv
>Goes over top names in the division to get put in the QOTR finals on ppv
>Gets video packages hyping her up each week
>Gets main events on Raw
>Gets the first women's IC title belt
All in a year and to only still be met with complete apathy

>>18177345
>They did it to someone else so that means they didn't do it to Lyra now
Congrats this is a whataboutism. You Lyretards are mentally ill

>>18177364
>>Introduced as top name Becky Lynch's best friend
She was introduced in NXT UK, and had a strong run there before coming to NXT and eventually beating Becky Lynch for the championship. Acknowledging those events when she came to Raw is the natural thing to do. Watch the product.

>>18177346
I'm not sure I would use Zelina, B-Fab, or Michin as beacons of character work and promos

>>18177283
Tiffany is over despite the awful booking. She had to work with Charlotte (who no one cares about or wanted to see back) and has been stuck fighting with Nia (not a fan favorite).

Lyra is the opposite. She barely gets reactions and her heel opponents get more cheers.

>>18177390
I think B-Fab has a really solid character and screen presence.

>>18177381
None of this changes how she was introduced to the main roster audience. How retarded are you to think everyone watching Raw also watches NXT no less watched fuck ass NXTUK. That shit got canceled for a reason

>>18177394
>Lyra is the opposite. She barely gets reactions
You are quite simply mentally ill.

>>18177400
>I'm completely ignorant and the show needs to pretend NXT doesn't exist so I can feel comfortable

>>18177394
I make no arguments over Tiffany being over. I've never said anything to the contrary. The word despite couldn't be emphasized enough actually. Because yeah despite how piss poor her run as a face has been she is still over

>>18177418
I'm glad you could take a moment to self reflect

>>18177394
>Tiffany is over despite the awful booking
Again, the "awful booking":
>MITB
>women's champion
>had Trish be brought back just to suck her off and put her over in Trish's hometown as a team
>Mania feud and win over Charlotte goddamn Flair
>and now they're bringing Trish in AGAIN to put her over even further
I'm sure any other woman on the roster would beg to be booked as horribly as this

>>18177460
I'm sorry Lyra beat your waifu at some point. You really need to get over it though.

both tiffy and lyra are complete failures for how much they have been given

>>18177488
>But R-Truth
>But waifus
Why can't you Lyretards ever just actually speak about the woman you simp so pathetically for in the context of just herself? You always have to make it about other people because if you didn't then you wouldn't be able to deflect from how not over she is and how crowds don't give a shit about her

>>18177500
This. 1000% entirely this. Both experiments failed. And there's a reason WWE has looked externally for their next class of big names for the women's division

>>18177518
You literally deny reality because it makes you angry for some reason that people chant during her entrances and chant this is awesome during her matches. I don't know what it is about Lyra that causes such deranged reactions. It seems pathological.

>>18177488
he hates this one because it's the truth

>>18177390
>I'm not sure I would use Zelina, B-Fab, or Michin as beacons of character work and promos

im saying they are the opposite, they are supposed to be faces but they sound like heels.

>>18177236
>not to step on Mercedes' hooves

Way too many troons in this sport
>>18177236
fpbp

>>18177470
After winning the belt, Tiffy's booking has been mediocre at best. Turning her face to work with Charlotte (gets booed) and Trish (low reaction even in her hometown) is not good booking.

Sure her booking is not as bad as Zelina's or the jobbers, but it has not been good lately.

>>18177470
>>18177581
People think "good booking" means winning a lot. Drew spent all of last year losing, and it was the best year of his entire career.

>>18177539
the woos are not from the crowd, it's just the commentator :(

Tiffany thread and he’s still crying about Lyra.

>>18177592

>>18177560
Yeah but they also suck. So it's not making the point you think it is because they're also shitty performers. No one can make a wrestler speak a certain way except themselves. If their delivery is off then they only have themselves to blame

>>18177591
>People think "good booking" means winning a lot

>>18177236
>She has no depth as a character.
To be fair that is true of pretty much every woman there. Even with the better actresses/promos they have like Bliss, they do not really do much with.

>>18177224 (OP)
I still like Tiffy but yeah I think she was better as a heel. I can see why they turned her face tough. Most wrestling fans are guys and guys don't want to boo a woman who looks like Tiffany.

>>18177224 (OP)
i'm a big tiffany fan and i think the way they handle women's heel/face turns is a bit odd sometimes.
they don't seem to like it when female heels get the crowd behind them, they will turn them face as soon as this happens. they'll let it happen sometimes with the guys though, like the seth riders, tribal chief roman, drew or cena (lol).
this leaves the women with too many faces/tweeners and the only true heels being those with go away heat like nia and charles. the only one they seem content to let get huge reactions while remaining a heel is chelsea.
but turning them face often makes the story stupid, or hurts the wrestler because they're natural heels. tiffany is a natural heel but she's a young blonde bimbo that does flips and shot on charlotte, she'll never get booed, ever. rhea, another natural heel, was getting the biggest pops of the show so they turned her face, but she's awful as a face. she'd be getting the same reactions as a heel, they should have kept her one, same for tiffany.

>>18177983
>they don't seem to like it when female heels get the crowd behind them, they will turn them face as soon as this happens.
This is a controversial opinion but they did this with LA Knight too, and he's also much better as a heel.

>>18177224 (OP)
She's nothing but a catchphrase. She flops when she does literally anything else. She sucks at being a heel too

>>18177307
>She didn't need any range for her heel character.
Totally disagree. It only works short time. She'd still be having problems if she was heel right now

Just be honest, no one in wwe knows how to cut a promo or play a character. If they learned how to do that they’re quickly unlearned it in the PC.

>>18178297
>Does anyone else think WWE is bad?!! =D

>resting bitch face
>speaks in a snarky cadence
>has a generally condescending attitude
>starts playing with her hair like an insecure teen when insulted
I completely agree, she's a natural heel

>>18177307
Literally all the main roster women talk and act the same way regardless of being heel or face.

>>18177224 (OP)
I prefer her as the evil boggged whore

>>18178543
>resting bitch face
>speaks in a snarky cadence
>has a generally condescending attitude
>starts playing with her hair like an insecure teen when insulted
this is almost the entire women roster except for the joshis, ESLs and a couple of bimbos

>>18177224 (OP)
The issue is that western entertainment (wrestling is honestly a lesser offender) doesn't know what to do with female heroes, so people start liking them less after they turn face.
>people just find villainesses sexy
Men don't line up around the block for IRL murderers like women do, nor do they defend Amber Heard. The exceptions are generally lacking in testosterone. I'd argue that it's just that writers don't grasp that things that make men unlikeable often make women charming, and visa versa.

A man who flops around like a fish or crumples helplessly when he's punched is a joke. A woman isn't any less of a woman for that and actually gets sympathy compared to a more masculine woman who tanks it.
A man who runs from danger has just made every woman in the room go dry. A woman who runs from danger is triggering the protective instincts of every man in the room (human species survival strategy at work here).
A man who does cutesy shit is cringe. A woman who does cutesy shit is cute.
Explosive power is masculine. The normal babyface role doesn't evoke the same sense of fun when it's a woman. People were enjoying the female heel's slow, taunty, pose-filled offense more. So the stuff that's supposed to be fun with the face is actually annoying because it shut down the stuff that was supposed to be annoying but was actually fun. The heel has become the lovable face and the face has become the boring/obnoxious heel.

I think that when you put women in action environments, you should have "heel-ish" faces and "face-ish" heels. The former doesn't cheat, but she sells like a villain, flaunts like a villain, and is kinda timid like a villain who's being overpowered. And then when she wins, she flaunts like a villain some more. If only one of them is in a sexy outfit, it should be the face.

>>18178813
I want feel her enlarged clit tremble against me as I breed her balls deep.

>>18178813
that's Tyler Recks

The Charlotte feud was a test that she failed abysmally
Should've taken the title off her ASAP after mania

>>18177224 (OP)
Marks and Smarks alike dont want to cheer against the most athletic person on the roster. Tiffy is by far the most athletic diva. She moves at a different speed than the rest, and is way more coordinated than anybody bar Bianca Belair.

Its only natural to cheer when you see Stratton doing shit nobody else can do. The only thing you can do with someone who is so much better to watch in-ring than the rest of the roster is turn them face.

Same problem AEW has. Fans refuse to cheer against the best wrestlers no matter the angle or the promo

>>18177307
Austin was a Face who spoke like a heel
Rock was also a Face who spoke like a heel

>>18177346
Zelina also intentionally hurt a wrestler before out of envy
Shitter Banks the same

>>18182110
what did she fail exactly?

>>18178813
if she dropped the retarded lipstick

>>18182288
this redditor spoke the truth seeing that people were shilling for liv who probably has the worst body for a wrestler, and still both smarks and marks shills her hard

>>18182423
in 2025 liv is a workrate wrestler

>>18182288
>way more coordinated
Then why does she botch all the time?

>>18182460
Its harder for the rest of the roster to keep up with tiff. Stratton is moving at a different speed

>>18182552
You're so full of shit. She's barely above Lacey Evans tier in the ring

>>18177236
>The career ruining decision was her never learning how to do more than the one same promo she cuts every time she speaks.
>She's a one trick pony.
>She has no depth as a character.
>She has no range as a performer.
>She's a walking catchphrase
why you talking about rhea. this is a tiffany thread. seriously all rhea ever says is MOMMY IS MAD!!!!

>>18182567
that's the majority of people in the wwe atm

>>18177224 (OP)
It’s not, the way executed the turn just wasn’t good

They should make her an openly bigoted heel

>>18182654
its definitely every woman in wrestling. look at the asians. they cant even communicate. dont know why this anon is calling tiff out on this as if she is the worst. maybe because she is champ? nia was a better champ? iyo hasnt even defended her title in months

>>18182685
i really hate non english speakers ngl
they always need to be carried by the people they feud with

>>18177394
nia has gotten so many bitches over you stfu nigger

>>18182431
The only she works is her labrum into a shoot

>>18177236
Good take

>>18177224 (OP)
the correct thing to do in these situations where a natural heel gets too popular is a short turn that lasts for around 6 months, then turn them back heel once the shine wears off. they used to do that with kurt angle, they also tend to do it with miz when he starts getting cheers.

>>18182559
Lacey is big but Stratton is much more nimble, more explosive

>>18177364
she needs to be a heel with a more catchy theme. have her be a "cool" heel and run in for a couple of years, it's how wwe gets people over when they're having trouble

>>18177394
She actually isn't that over despite being one of the best booked people.
Won MITB and the title inside of a year
Went over Charlotte Flair clean at WM for the title
Getting a Trish Stratus rub- tagged with her and having a match with her
>b-b-but she had to feud with Nia Jax
Went over her every time and only other person that went over Nia in the last year was Rhea Ripley

>>18182431
only her simps think that

>>18177224 (OP)
Yep triple h is a bad Booker

>>18182759
Nia only ever got Becky over and that was by ham fisted accident.

>>18182383
She couldn't get the fans interested in it until she started shooting. And then the match itself is the biggest one. Whether you like Charlotte or completely hate the woman, she can always pull out a damn solid match. Especially at Mania. Meanwhile this year she couldn't even carry Tiffany to a semi-decent one. You could openly see Charlotte directly Tiffany on what to do and where to be at points. Tiffany was gassed half way through. It was an inexcusably poor showing

>>18185173
Ngl even after Charlotte being "defeated" Tiff looks totally busted, It's like Dark Souls when you beat the boss with 1hp left and no heal

>>18186109
KEK. Here's your Mania moment. Left sucking wind and completely gassed after a shitter of a match

>>18182431
livfags are delusional
truly some of the worst wrestling fans next to spics

>>18186144
That face. Woof