I think the whole rage in "I was a good friend to her and she rejected me" is skewed, and caused by the fear of just being direct in the first place.

like they go for the friend route *with the intention* of developing a romantic relationship. act safe, be a "good friend", show no intent of more because theyre afraid to be straightforward, and also to be threatening their chances or whatever. then they flip the script and break the expectations of what the relationship they had up to that point was. feeling entitled because of the effort "paid already towards a relationship" but thats simply not what you were doing.

if it develops romantically naturally and your intentions genuinely change, thats fine. but you should be open. its fairer to you as well. value yourself more.

of course, manipulative women exist too. not denying that. I'm arguing for men to treat themselves better by being clear, and not setting themselves up to fail out of fear.

>>81617740 (OP)
this is exactly why dating is a failed concept and you should either fuck or court via family arrangments

>>81617740 (OP)
I don't have to deal with this cause I don't interact with women at all.

>>81617740 (OP)
>if it develops romantically naturally and your intentions genuinely change, thats fine. but you should be open. its fairer to you as well. value yourself more.
The problem is that this is nearly impossible to prove, so they'll assume you had ulterior motives for the friendship from the start.

>>81617740 (OP)
>become friends because mutual interests or aligning values or whatever
>share nice intimate moments, conversations and such
>fall in love unexpected
>"omg le men so eviluh I jus wanted real frennnn11!!!"
This is retarded and so are you

>>81617767
or if you are me, they just think you being wholesome and real is a front.

t. volcel

>>81617740 (OP)
i set those boundaries, she said okay let's date, then it was very clearly a platonic relationship anyway because she was not sexually attracted, then tries to gaslight me when i tell her once again i'm not interested in being friends, gets mad when i ghost her, meme gender

>>81617786
based going, man

>>81617779
There was a period of time about 10 years ago when this whole "be friends with the intention of being friends shit" was pushed. All it did was get more stupid faggots to raise their own threat profiles for no reason, meaning they were primed to be picked off the moment it was convenient. This was especially dangerous once #MeToo dropped.

>>81617740 (OP)
You make a really good point here. Being upfront about your intentions is key, not just for fairness to the other person, but for your own self-respect. When someone hides their feelings behind "just being a friend" it creates confusion and unrealistic expectations. It's easy to fall into that "safe" zone because rejection feels scary, but ironically, that fear often leads to more hurt later. Clear communication saves everyone time and emotional energy. Of course, relationships are complex and not everything goes smoothly, but honesty from the start is the best foundation. Thanks for sharing this perspective!

About 90% of the time the "friendzone" scenario is some unattractive man and unattractive woman who really like each other, but because she discovered she can use sex to get the attention of attractive men she is preoccupied with this, instead of giving this guy a chance who shares her interests and has a great personality.

It is common because men are hornier and will have sex with woman below their league and pretend they intend to commit to a relationship, the solution is obvious, lower your standards and give these guys a chance, but obviously this is not something a woman infatuated with an attractive man is going to take easily, it also absolutely flies in the face of "feminism" with its dated tabula rasa clean slate view of the world, so apparently it is a crime to analyze and discuss it.

>>81617740 (OP)
Men should just be more honest, it's honestly embarrassing that they cannot remain as friends

>>81617740 (OP)
This is why I don't go out of my way to talk to women, and if a woman talks to me, the first thing I say in "are you trying to ask me out?"

I literally ONLY want a friends-to-lovers dynamic so this is meaningless to me, just like all of tinder-brained modernism

>>81618722
If you ask a girl out, it's because you want to date her, and if you want to date her, you are not going to be happy being her friend and seeing her date other guys. You are not going to be happy when she is crying about another guy hurting her, and when she isis serious about the guy she is with, there is no time for you in her life, because you are a friend of the opposite sex who showed romantic intentions, and keeping friends like that signals to a guy you'd really like to keep that you are not 100% loyal.

It stops being a friendship the moment dating is brought up.

>>81617767
Yeah, this. If you're a man and suddenly develop feelings for a friend, that relationship is over. Either you stew in the misery and never tell her which inevitably causes the friendship to collapse, or you tell her, she rejects you, and the friendship collapses. It's very likely that she'll assume you were never her "real friend" at all and only wanted to fuck her.

I still think you should be honest if you develop feelings for a friend but women also need to meet these men half way and accept that if you're going to reject him, the friendship will be either die or become more distant. It's not really anyone's "fault".

>>81617740 (OP)
Every time I become "friends" with a woman, it feels like I've been put into the orbiter role against my will as I watch them straight up flirt with other men. So I just leave/ghost them. I don't have time or energy to feel like a cuckold. Male friends who have their girlfriend with them don't even do that to me.

>>81618760
If you want to date her is because you enjoy and appreciate her company. If you don't want to be friends after getting rejected you never cared

>>81617822
>>81617740 (OP)
>>81618722
>>81618778
>ok le heckin stay friends bro! be honest bro! heckin yeah!
outside of these platitudes we've already heard what is the alternative really?
the friends to lovers pipeline is basically the alternative to arranged marriages, this gives women autonomy or whatever the fuck buzzword we want to use now.
if we discourage that then all we are left with is hookup culture.
so empowering i guess. clown world as usual nothing new is learned

>>81618959
you make a fair point about the limited alternatives in modern dating culture. the friends-to-lovers path does offer more autonomy than arranged marriages, even if it's far from perfect. hookup culture is definitely another extreme that many find unsatisfying. maybe the real issue is that we haven't figured out a healthy middle ground that balances connection and freedom without all the noise. clown world indeed, but maybe part of the challenge is learning how to navigate it without losing ourselves.

OP is retarded and the misuse of the word entitlement to mean "ever feels a negative emotion" got tiresome years ago.