Not trying to throw troons under the bus or anything but how do feminists who say rape culture is a product of male socialization/patriarchy rationalize transwomen offending at much higher rates?

>transwomen offending at much higher rates
Wolf in sheep's clothing

>>82200581 (OP)
justice system is biased against them just like against blacks

>>82200594
Believe (cis) women

>>82200581 (OP)
They'd probably argue that
a) they're still men and thus patriarchy is still aiding them in some way and
b) only extra perverse/deranged men would troon out in the first place, biasing the sample.

Someone explain to me what's wrong with rape without going in circles. Dare ya.

>>82200623
The canonical reason that our society peddles is that it violates bodily autonomy and causes trauma.
I'd say the real reason is that rape is an "unfair" reproductive strategy that only benefits the dysgenic.

>>82200581 (OP)
Feminism based in Marxist class theory suggests that women can do no wrong and that men need to be destroyed as a concept. So when a dude troons out the offense is nullified as a rape culture problem entirely

>>82200581 (OP)
They don't. Feminism is inherently transphobic since it's misandrist.

How does mysogyny rationalize trans men and trans women? It doesn't, and it denies transgenderism because they blur the bounderies between male and female, and it's really hard to say "man > woman" when gender as a concept becomes nuanced.

So, why would misandry be any different? You're oppressing real afab women by existing and culturally appropriating them into your little fashion grooming ritual, you male evil fuckwit.

That's what they'd say if they're being honest. The rest will accidentally deny feminism and inadvertantly say MRA stuff that erases the power of feminist rhetoric in defense of you. "Oh, it's not that men are naturally more violent. It's how they're socialized, which is why trans women are more violent despite being women. We, as a society, should stop creating the violent people who rape women and put more resources into socializing boys better." But that actually takes accountability off the shoulders of men, and they can't have that. They want people to know that men are evil rapists who deserve everything bad that happens to them because of feminism.

>>82200657
What if a genetically gifted fella rapes?

>>82200581 (OP)
>feminists who say rape culture is a product of male socialization/patriarchy rationalize transwomen offending at much higher rates?
What do you mean?
Transwomen were socialized as males, thus this is completely in line with that theory.

>>82200623
Women belong to men, by raping a woman you are damaging a man's property or future property.

>>82201131
It's up to foid and his peers to decide that

They don't. Women are just too stupid to put up with it. Trannies are men, which means they're smart enough to know how to play the game. They want to go in to women's restrooms so they can jerk off to little kids and not be called out for it. Women won't say anything, because everything that women do is strictly for virtue. They would rather you think they're a good person instead of having any moral convictions. Enjoy being murdered by a brown because your sister didn't want anyone to think she was racist.

>>82201181
>Transwomen were socialized as males, thus this is completely in line with that theory.
They are resocialized as women and do not conform to any male upbringing. There is also no clear mechanism by which they could benefit from a supposed patriarchy. The theory alone would predict comparable rates at most, not five times the base rate (which is the reality).
What really baffles me is that there is a somewhat common archetype of FtM misandrists, especially in progressive circles.

>>82200581 (OP)
lol teto is going to die SOMEONE SAVE HER

>>82201240
Meant to say MtF misandrists but this is true too.

>>82201240
>They are resocialized as women
Stopped reading there. Resocialization is a meme, once you're through childhood that's it for your foundation. This is basic (academic) psychology. Thus bringing it back in line with the 5x rate.

>there is a somewhat common archetype of FtM misandrists,
Just to be clear, do you mean misandrists (hates men) or misanthropes (hates people)?
If the former, a lot of women become men out of some weird feeling of bitterness or vulnerability. Basically it's a permutation of the sad trope of "women gets abused in some way, usually sexually, and as a result (subconsciously) tries to make herself as unappealing as possible (usually fat) so as to prevent it from happening in the future".
If "women can't do X!" or "girls are weak!" or whatever, and they reject their very essence as some sort of vain resistance, it makes complete sense to "hate" the ones you perceive to have "forced" this onto you.
In other words they're not "men", they're "strong" and "strength" just happens to take the form of a man.

Most MTF trannies have autogynephilia, but I don't think most FTM trannies have.... uh, autoandrophilia(?).

>>82201262
Oh, quite the typo lol.
But it still works.
Just like the female rejects her femininity to become a trannie, a male rejects his masculinity to become a tranny.
So it makes complete sense for him to hate the masculine that he rejected.
Obviously not all do this, just saying it makes sense for the ones who do.

>>82201292
Most FTM pooners are what you would have called "non binary" 10 years ago. They're just women who don't want to be feminine. It's not a fetish for them, they just don't want to be feminine. MTF usually troon out because it is a fetish.

>>82200581 (OP)
For mainstream feminists, troons are part of the progressive coalition so they're not part of the Other that must be cracked down on, regardless of what the statistics say. For radfems, transwomen are just men so there's no significance to the deviation.

>>82201394
The term is TERF. Apparently women are not allowed to hate having penises in their safe spaces. For whatever reason, almost all internet communities have at least one tranny mod who makes it clear that transphobia isn't allowed.

>>82201424
>Apparently women are not allowed to hate having penises in their safe spaces.
That's based though. Self-segregation is anti-social and anathema to civil rights principles.

>>82201449
MTF are cancer. That gamestop tranny showcased how those people are. They're predators, but some are just better at hiding it than others. I'm glad they usually take matters into their own hands. Self correcting problem.

>>82201478
You WILL accept penises into your space.

>>82200581 (OP)
>>82200588
>>82200617
What you said is fake. You got it from fake statistics posted by Elon Musk, based on faulty statistics out of the British prison system, which excluded most trans people: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-42221629

According to actual research instead of propaganda spread by Elon Musk to snub his kid, trans women oppose rape culture ideas more than cis women: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0886260518792241
This was observed by radical feminist Catharine A. MacKinnon who discussed how they were less likely to blame the victim of rape than many other women she knew, and how she knew many trans women opposed to prostitution. https://www.transadvocate.com/sex-gender-and-sexuality-the-transadvocate-interviews-catharine-a-mackinnon_n_15037.htm

The higher empathy is likely from the fact they're often subjected to misogyny and rape themselves. Here's a statistic the US government decided you shouldn't be able to read. It was censored from the internet this year:
https://web.archive.org/web/20241228015214/https://ovc.ojp.gov/sites/g/files/xyckuh226/files/pubs/forge/sexual_numbers.html

>>82200694
>How does mysogyny rationalize trans men and trans women?
Paying the trans men more after transition and the trans women less. https://web.archive.org/web/20081206034228/https://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/25/before-that-sex-change-think-about-your-next-paycheck/
https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.2202/1935-1682.1862/html?lang=en

>>82201524
>You got it from fake statistics posted by Elon Musk,
I didn't know Elon posted about it
>based on faulty statistics out of the British prison system, which excluded most trans people
How are they faulty?
>According to actual research instead of propaganda spread by Elon Musk to snub his kid, trans women oppose rape culture ideas more than cis women
This is not the same as saying they commit fewer rapes, nor is that a trivial assumption to make.

>>82201524
>trans women oppose rape culture ideas more than cis women
I don't care what they espouse, I care what they do. They have higher per capita sexual assault rates.

Also you can lay off the Elon stuff, no one brought up your boogieman until you did.
>Elon bad!
Yeah okay sure we don't care about him either way.

>>82201394
Most people who believe in actual radical feminism are pro-trans. Not the people who self-identify, ironically enough, as "radfem" online. The people who actually believe in the objective principles of radical feminist theory.
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11199-024-01507-9

>>82201561
>>82201569
Elon was who proliferated this fake statistic in direct response to his kid criticizing him in a magazine. He posted it after she gave an interview. This is an inseparable fact from how you came to be exposed to this supposed statistic.

>>82201570
Paywalled. Is this particular to the United States, or does it hold in the UK and Australia as well, for example?

>>82201503
I wish I had a penis. Seems like fun.

>>82201602
The sample is all British, so it would be expected to hold even more strongly elsewhere if anything.

>>82201584
>you were exposed to this by elon! REEEEE
No, I wasn't. I regularly read medical, physiology, and other such journals because I'm a nerd.
The same ones which you will oh so eagerly cite to say "transwomen are more often victims of sexual assault themselves!".
They also have high rates of drug use.
The famous Matthew Shepard' murder which influenced Matthew Shepard's law also turned out to be drug related rather than transphobia.

If you wanted to argue the finer minutia I wouldn't even be mad but to spout off "MUH ELON" for two posts straight when no one else mentioned him at all is obsessed.

>>82201570
Do you have access to this article, or did you link to a paywalled article hoping no one would be able to read it to point out the holes in it?

>>82201619
Why are your physiology journals talking about rape rates supposedly? Isn't that the study of human organ function or whatever?
I mentioned the fact you got it from Elon Musk in passing, you're the one making a big deal out of it.

>>82200581 (OP)
Trans women are socialized as men

>>82201629
I'm sorry you're poor.

>>82201639
They are men. Being a tranny is just socially acceptable black face.

>>82201524
Is this like the "debunking" of lesbian domestic violence rate statistics where they say that men made up the majority of abusers without explaining how they could be more affected than straight women?

>>82201657
Is it that hard to grasp that men beating you really helps the process of self-acceptance as lesbian along?

>>82201631
>and other such journals
anta baka.
>why would rape rates be talked about?
Because trauma is a big indicator of altered brain functioning and other blah blah neuroscience stuff.

>I mentioned it in passing
>>82201584
This entire post is about elon.
And half of the first post was.
Some weird twisted version of attacking the argument by means of attacking the messenger when neither that anon nor myself got it from him or twitter in the first place.

Anyway your entire first post is about how they are more likely to be victims, which is unrelated to their sexual assault rates. Both can be true at the same time.

>>82201644
>paying for tranny news articles
Many such cases!

>>82201669
Actually my first post links a BBC news article refuting the statistic you were thinking of. It's the literal only source about this that exists, and it was proliferated by Elon, yes. The 2nd post is in response to two people who grabbed onto the fact I mentioned Elon in passing, so I expanded on it.
The actual messenger was his kid who said Elon abused her for feminine behavior when young. He didn't like that very much.

>>82201654
That would be drag. Trannies get way more into character.
>>82201665
Yeah, I don't believe most lesbians were in abusive heterosexual relationships.

>>82201710
>into character
So they really just are pretending. I've always kind of maintained that trannies think that being a woman is just a modifier on being a man, like being a mage or a barbarian

>>82201691
That's not a news article, it's a study in a scholars' journal. People access them all the time without paying, through libraries or university systems, etc

>>82201736
Very true. I'm asking if you personally have access to it, or are you just posting links from some server under a "use these against chuds!" list.
If you do have access, then provide screenshots otherwise it's a worthless source for our purposes here.

Back to the gay stuff:
I really don't see why this is so controversial.
Let's take this for instance:
https://bjs.ojp.gov/library/publications/violent-victimization-sexual-orientation-and-gender-identity-2017-2020
Domestic violence was eight times as high among bisexual persons (32.3 victimizations per 1,000 persons age 16 or older) and more than twice as high among lesbian or gay persons (10.3 per 1,000) as it was among straight persons (4.2 per 1,000).
Tell me something, who do you think date gay men? Other gay men. Who do you think dates lesbians? Other lesbians. From this statistic alone, homosexuals commit twice as much domestic violence.
I won't even bother with factoring in what wasn't reported to police because that gets messy whichever way you cut it.

If you simply accepted that X groups do Y thing without blindly defending them, you wouldn't earn people's disdain.

>>82201764
You can start by not linking live .gov pages operated by a government now known for extreme data manipulation.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/firing-of-labor-statistics-head-undermines-trust-in-key-data-ex-trump-official-warns
https://www.psypost.org/secret-changes-to-major-u-s-health-datasets-raise-alarms/

>>82201764
And no, I'm not getting links from anywhere but my own notes and memory. Sorry you finally met someone who knew what they're talking about.

>>82201823
Nta but you still haven't posted screenshots, just links.

>>82201871
I posted one of the charts, arguably the most interesting one. No one really commented on it.

>>82200581 (OP)
>transwomen offending at much higher rates
isn't this mostly due to prostitution being categorized as a sex offense?
trannies are just hookers

>>82201894
The one about attitude towards rape, completely irrelevant to frequency of rape?

>>82201926
Yes I'm sure having measured scores on rape myth acceptance that are polar opposite to men and more similar to women is totally irrelevant to rape perpetration.

>>82201914
This is probably a part of the story in the British statistics, since prostitution was a sex offense there until very recently. I remember there was a case where a trans woman was in the news and someone pointed out she's on the sex offender registry, then someone bothered digging further only to find it was due to a prostitution case.

>>82201932
Yeah it is. When you account for confounding factors like race, political alignment has no correlation with perpetration for example. Here's a non-paywalled link:
https://jspp.psychopen.eu/index.php/jspp/article/view/9823/9823.html
And personally I would argue that automatically believing rape accusations and identifying with the victim do not make you a better person.

>>82200676
>>82200694 (me)
Wow. You predicted exactly what I was going to say they'd say. But the class separation is drawn with sex AND gender. Trans people muddy what it means to have the "borgeoisie" gender/sex.
>>82201543
This was in 2008, 17 years ago, before people even knew about trans men existing. Afabs generally have an easier time of passing while trans. They just grow a beard. Patriarchy, where it existed, didn't get a chance to respond to trans men since they were basically invisible with them being off the radar.

She literally spoke about how the tranny of 10 years at her job transitioned and lost it, while the pooner transitioned then got a blue collar job and was paid slightly more. People knew the tranny was trans.

But besides that, mysogyny would, given the opportunity, reject BOTH trans women and trans men each because they challenge what it means to be a man and a woman. We've been hearing about how bad trans people are but especially trans women for the last 10 years since transitioning genders hit the meta. Conservatives are mindbroken by girl cock. Trans men are essentially lesbians and faggots at once to them and they don't like them either.

>>82201543
>should transgender women have the same rights as women?
Yeah, because men should have the same rights as women.

>>82202032
>Conservatives are mindbroken by girl cock.
How could I not be ?

>>82200581 (OP)
>>82200617
I was socialized differently, it's like you're expecting me to take after male role models just because of how I was born, but you're lacking "theory of mind" by assuming so. I didn't take the default path in one way, so why would I in this other way either? I always identified more with my aunt's and mother, and I always knew how bad male violence was. And before you say that's because I had a feminist environment, really I had a more conservative environment than anything.