I am trying to figure this one out but i am retarded.
> Lets say that you go in a spaceship in a trip to Pluto and back to Earth.
> Imagine that we have the technology to accelerate to almost the speed of light, and you go almost as fast as it for the most part of the travel.
> Since you have been traveling so close to the speed of light, time passes at a different speed in your spaceship than in Earth.
> In fact, for you the travel took hours, but in Earth many years have passed.
So the problem is this, if they look at your spaceship from Earth with a telescope, would you appear to be moving very slow (and be very red)?
So from Earth perspective your travel would take many years despite you traveling very fast?
Then a slower ship could catch you?
I dont get it.

>>16692692 (OP)
your ship would appear to be travelling very fast through space, BUT a clock on board your ship would appear to be running very slowly. can't really explain it much better than that myself

>>16692692 (OP)
from here to pluto and back at lightspeed is not a long trip. assuming you can get to lightspeed immediately, that's like 12 hours (internet says 5-6 hours for light to reach Pluto from Sun).
so you are only travelling at lightspeed for a subjective 12 hours, even with strong dilation i don't think it would make a huge difference. someone with the numbers can verify that.

two problems, one, typically you need to accelerate up to lightspeed. that would take a long time with current nozzle velocities, and it would be impossible with modern fuel. typically proposed solutions have extremely low velocity and take a very long time to get up to speed, but they can be run indefinitely (ion systems).

afaik lightspeed travel is theoretically because we've never observed anything really massy move at the speed. individual particles don't tell us what a bunch of different elements having their velocity pushed up close to the speed of light would do.

id a midwit so i'd say half of this is flat wrong. best i can do for free.

The answer is that the proposed mechanisms of time dilation are fake and gay.
Gravity and acceleration, not velocity.

>>16693081
>acceleration
that's not the explanation, the truth is more subtle
w/o math: https://youtu.be/noaGNuQCW8A
with math: https://youtu.be/GgvajuvSpF4

>>16693088
WHY SHOULD moving make you age slower?
is he gonna explain it?
by the time you read this, maybe he has.

>>16693088
my brain started melting and i never got to the answer.
it's lightspeed tho right? the fraction of c determines time dilation.

>>16693088
>misusing the lorentz equations to claim that the apparent dilation and contraction for different observers it converts between is real
Thanks for the talking head. I shall not be viewing any more of his garbage.

>>16693091
Because at light speed time goes to zero. If time goes to zero how can you age?

>>16693120
you can't get up to lightspeed. you can maybe probably get 99pc of lightspeed if you really try hard
so aging is inevitable, and we neatly sidestep the paradox of achieving lightspeed and time stopping.

>>16692692 (OP)
>>16693126
assuming i have a spaceship that can get all the way up to 99.99% of lightspeed, and i do that... am i really still in a spaceship consisting of mass, or am i more energy at that point?

The best part about relativity is the amount of time spent coping and seething about time being relative, insisting that it must pass at different rates due to simple shit like velocity.
Velocity is not a force. That's fucking retarded.

>>16693133
why would velocity need to be a force in order for time being relative to stand?
what if time is a product of the universe, and therefore the rules are dictated by the state of the universe? no force needed, it is simply intrinsic to the nature of the universe.

>>16693137
Translate into doppler effect. Extension and compression in apparent rate to the outside observer.

>>16693098

>>16692692 (OP)
yeah everything slows down inside the ship including the speed of light.

>>16693133
>>16693139
You're right but you probably don't understand why, judging from your schizo babble. Extension and compression, apparent rate kek. You're just stringing together random words.
Anyway, if you think that Minkowski spacetime is real and not just a mathematical artifact you're confusing the map with the territory

>>16693187
>extension
>compression
>apparent rate
>random words
That's odd. You seem to know what they mean, yet you accuse me of being unintelligible.
>if you think minkowski spacetime is real
>at the guy that's fucking pissed about special relativity retardation
Yeah. Sure.

>>16693189
>>at the guy that's fucking pissed about special relativity retardation
That was meant for the rest of the thread obviously

>>16692692 (OP)
Gravity = time.

>>16693193
That does read a hell of a lot better than the abject confusion I got from it.

>>16693187
You can check yourself how much you are programmed to official propaganda. Your case is hopeless if it's not obvious and easy to grasp what he writes.
Lightspeed depends on medium and temperature btw. How do that works in reativity and why is there light at all (when it's not aging on c it does not oscillate.

Time dilation isn't real, clocks are simply not accurate and not identical, clocks drift whether one is on the plane or on fucking ground. Fuck off.

>>16693120
At speed of light, you aren't covering infinite distances, in fact you're covering relatively small distances and it takes a long time to travel across something huge like "entire fucking universe", so how can time be 0? Fucking retarded subhuman.

>>16693418
>clocks being not accurate and not identical in a consistent and predictable way in regards to relative velocities
Yes that's what time dilation is.

>>16693436
Two clocks on my table are moivng at different velocities?

>>16693443
Probably, but that's not why they're out of sync.

>>16693447
I accept your concession.

>>16693126
>you can't get up to lightspeed.
That's only a hallucination. You cannot prove that something can't. The fact that you cannot accelerate something above the medium speed (here c) proves the ether btw.

this has to be the worst thread on /sci/

>>16693902
Why?

>>16693902
>this has to be the worst thread on /sci/
Could be way worse, but this site is retarded anyway. Just to fuel the thread: The relativity fraud was startet by the NYT by worshipping that patent clerk. Nobody gave a shit before and it was refuted by the twin paradoxon in the "Annalen der Physik" around 3 years after that BS was published. They confused that nonrefutable argument by "Lorentz rooms" wich is nothing more than a imaginary local coordinate system and that do not exist in te real world. There are some studies climbing to a mountain and observing the church clock in the village below and there is no time difference. But it must because of gravity working for 100*s of years on the peak .

>>16693423
Not the guy you replied to but time is 0 for a photon. From a photons perspective no time has passed which means it is absorbed (reaches its destination) the moment it is produced. However from your perspective, it takes time for that photon to reach you.
You can use the time dilation formula in special relativity which is Δt = Δτ / √ (1 - v^2/c^2). When calculating for speed of light (c) you make v=c which makes the equation Δτ/0 which means in order for Δt to be finite Δτ has to be 0.
Δτ is the time for the photon (called proper time) and Δt is the observers time.

>>16693423
>it takes a long time to travel across something huge like "entire fucking universe", so how can time be 0

it takes a long time from your perspective not from the photons perspective.

>>16693810
If it were possible to push something with mass to the speed of light the energy involved would be so immense it would obliterate the object long before it got there. This shows why the speed limit is a fundamental energy barrier, not because of any hypothetical medium like ether.

Your ship would appear to be moving close to the speed of light but everything on board would appear to be in slow motion, if you went fast enough on the ship your time dilation makes it feel like you could be accelerating well past the speed of light, but to outside observers the passengers on the ship are just existing slower and slower.

>>16692692 (OP)
Gravity between the two ships is reduced by the square of distance, so if the slower ship was closer by square root to the faster further one then it could ok look if square of distance is earth from the further ship are tiny dots I wonder because the ships a same size dot as earth..

>>16693071
>your ship would appear to be travelling very fast through space,
That’s such a retarded sentence

Appear to move very fast means tracking the position in the solar system most likely through angular trajectory

Seeing it move fast is strictly incompatible with it taking longer to do the trip

>>16693074
>id a midwit so i'd say half of this is flat wrong.
Then don’t fucking talk!

>mmmh today i will spread misinformation

>>16693088
This is so wrong. It absolutely is the acceleration

>>16692692 (OP)
time and matter don't exist

>>16693088
>one of the premise
stopped watching there

>>16692692 (OP)
>people actually believe this

>>16692692 (OP)
>So from Earth perspective your travel would take many years despite you traveling very fast?
>Then a slower ship could catch you?
No, you would appear to travel at almost the speed of light, but no faster. The point is that you could travel to basically any point in space/time you want, like the Andromeda galaxy, in 2 seconds but an outside/stationary observer would see you travelling at ~c and no faster.

>>16693088
That explanation is retarded and makes no sense. The reason is that the moving observer is subject to length contraction, so moving at close to the speed of light, Andromeda no longer appears 4 light years but, say, 3 light days away. Thus, from the stationary perspective, the ship is moving at ~c and the round trip takes 8 years. From the ship's perspective, the distance is 3 light days, so a passenger on the ship sees the stationary observer moving away from him at light speed for 3 days and then return to him at light speed for 3 days and the round trip takes 6 days.