The way math is taught is stupid
We spend years drilling what is essentially pre calc into kids just for them to hate it and see no use for it unless they're a nerd by the time they reach calculus
Math's more than calculus

>>16713573 (OP)
>We
Speak for yourself, American.

How would you do it instead?

>>16713573 (OP)
In my opinion, the problem starts earlier than precalc and isn't limited to mathematics.
It seems humans like to do this thing where we teach it wrong for the sake of simplicity only to come back and say: well that isn't really true, it's actually more like this slightly more complicated way. Then a few years later in education we do the exact same thing again with that information.
Remember atoms, the most basic building blicks of matter? Actually there are protons and neutrons. Remember protons and neutrons? Actually there are quarks? Remember quarks? Actually, the particles are really more like waves of energy.
Happens in science, math and even history. We give a grossly innaccurate approximation and come back later to fill in the details.

>>16713573 (OP)
The curriculum is designed and implemented by WOMEN.
In grade school, at least (7th grade?), I remember doing a math problem, "showing my work" (lol), and still pissing off my teacher because I didn't do it her way but I got the right answer regardless.
So I literally asked her
>explain why I have to do it your way
and she couldn't for the life of her explain why in 7th grade prealgebra we did something in any certain way.
Of course it's fucking terrible.

>>16713594
the main point of school is to teach compliance and you failed

>>16713573 (OP)
The problem is the obsession with teaching rigorous epsilon delta proofs to non-math majors who have to take calculus.

I agree. I never hated math but I thought it was boring from how it was taught. Luckily, I got a glimpse of actual math in uni and ended up switching programs.

The problem lies with the fact that people that have a passion for math are not incentivised in any way to teach it at a level lower than uni.

Math is a subject that self selects extremely hard for people who are deeply interested in the subject itself and going to teach it at high school means taking an infinitely large step back in terms of the subject matter, for a shit pay and having to handle classrooms full of teenagers which is not an easy job by any means.

So you end up with teachers who were taught math poorly and dislike math, they teach it poorly and the circle is complete.

We really ought to be teaching kids mathematics from an axiomatic background. Start with basic abstract algebra and have them work their way up through analysis before even showing them trigonometry or calculus.

>>16713910
Agree, by the time they get to high school any kid should be well on their to way to finishing the classical Bourbaki volumes.

On a serious note, I think we should introduce more puzzles or problems that admit an elegant solution to introduce and motivate topics. Many will still not care about math, but you might be able to interest a few who are otherwise disheartened by the formulaic and soulless math they've encountered.

Only men should be taught maths beyond basic arithmetics

>>16713910
That's basically the New Math movement, which ended up in a catastrophic failure. Who could have guessed that Bourbaki was not a great way to teach normies?

>>16713910
at that point might as well start with homotopy type theory in kindergarten

>>16714160
We do teach Brunerie's number to kindergarteners, so why not?

>>16714105
All math is formulaic and soulless. Absolutely nothing changed once I went to university.

>>16714658
No fractal math, its heavily used in art and psychedelia and when people see god on psychedelics, its usually the things they tend to reference and draw.

>>16713586
You have to remember that kids know next to nothing and are incapable of understanding nuance. If you teach them all the exceptions to the rules from the beginning then they'll just be confused.

>>16714678
Fractal math is even more soulless and formal

Just behold shit like

|R^⅓

my god it smells so BAD the fucking formalistic STINK is obnoxious

>>16714678
There's a reason why you have to use braindamaging drugs to find any of this shit cool.

>>16714690
No, the imagery alone induces similar mindsets and people are often lead to the drugs because of cool intense visuals they think they can recreate and improve upon with hallucinogenics.

>>16714658
Engineering or other applied disciplines that distill math into unmotivated recipes and tricks to remember don't count. Those have the same style of math as high school, just more complicated. In theses classes people study for the exam where there is a certain number of recipes they need to be able to execute.

If you did take good university courses that care about concepts not recipes and you still find math formulaic and soulless I don't know what to tell you.
To quote Erdos:"Why are numbers beautiful? It's like asking why is Beethoven's Ninth Symphony beautiful. If you don't see why, someone can't tell you. I know numbers are beautiful. If they aren't beautiful, nothing is."

I'm not number theory pilled so I don't necessarily find numbers beautiful but the quote still stands substituting ones favorite piece of math.

>>16714105
This isn't the exact solution. If you have children, the point is to have them discover the art of pioneering, even if its fake pioneering.
Recitation of trivial facts through testing is simply not useful beyond the capability of memorization - which isn't even taught in the first place. Most of these facts are only there to set the stages for yet more later trivial facts.

Imagine being an explorer. You go through 20 years of schooling on how to draw every map every which way, the bugs, creatures, and other perils to look out for across every nation, the nuances of every known river and port, all of the edible and unedible things in the world - then your whole career is spent charting the mississippi.
Basically, they need to bring back the trivium - logic, grammer, rhetoric, with basic memory techniques folded in there. Then large guided elective systems. The daycare system doesn't like how obvious and easy this is.

>>16714970
>Recitation of trivial facts through testing is simply not useful beyond the capability of memorization
it's useful to have an external metric on whether a populace is successfully being educated, and is how we're learning for the first time in recorded history that literacy rates are in decline.

>>16714697
Yeah no you're right, the kinds of people predisposed to being worthless acid-dropping failures can be convinced en masse to study math and contribute to the field, if only we heckin taught them fractal math in high school

>>16714970
>bring back the trivium
Based
>>16714658
Take discrete math or analysis

>>16713573 (OP)
I remember I skipped one day in grade 9 and math never made sense again. It used to be my favorite and best subject, I am thinking of just watching grade 9-12 review online because wtf did I miss

>>16715126
what?
are you sure you didn't get a concussion that day?

>>16714974
This is a phenomenon of immigration. This can be and has been observed without any testing whatsoever for decades. Try again.
Immigration here implies more than just the migration of peoples, but also the migration of their shitty ideas as well.

>>16715175
I've had american freshmen in college who had 7th grade reading and writing levels.

>>16713573 (OP)
My chatgpt got extremely mad at for me for saying Godel was wrong and calculus was also a mistake and needs to be scrapped.

>>16714164
on a more serious note, I was taught the very basics of set theory in kindergarten and it has served me well

>math is more than calculus
they should teach calculus earlier, you can do basic derivatives and integrals before a lot of the stuff they teach in precalc

the only problem is a woman is teaching"math"

>>16715292
Probably the most practical suggestion in the thread. If anyone here finds themselves teaching "precalculus", give this a try. Might only work with the brighter students, though. You need the kids not to freak the fuck out when they see a simple rational function.

>>16714974
Then maybe actually teach people mnemonics needed for better memorization? Or how to read better.
Or for example it's entirely possible for most people to do operations with 3 digit numbers in their head with a few guidelines on how to do it properly that could be taught in like half an hour. Have you seen any schoolbook that does that outside some super specialized ones that you would never actually see in a school?

There was an attempt to make a new program for schools in USSR that actually teach how to memorize, operate numbers and use logic to make the act of learning itself easier. But as always it was cut off at the knees by retards in the governmental apparatus. The few books that were made were left as curiosities and now sit in some old libraries.

>>16716807
Multiplying three numbers is generally useless, but for some particular aptness. 6 digits of precision is pretty much overkill for everything. The computers used in the fake moon landings had 8 digits of precision. I trade stonks on 2 digit. There are niche roles that can use it. It is like saying they should teach a rubick's cube solution algorithm.
Primary education should be training such processes, not for the process sake, but to instill the ability to apply them in general. It would be better if they could teach the feedback process for tuning such processes to make them yourself. In this sense, teaching algorithms for toys would actually be better.
There are many women who can't even follow recipes.

>>16716807
You didn't understand the post you responded to.

>>16713573 (OP)
Teaching things poorly is a great way to stabilize the job market for the older generations.
Strangle the future competition in the crib. Train them to be mindless user slaves to serve as cogs for the older owners.