Thread 16729540 - /sci/ [Archived: 52 hours ago]

Anonymous
7/20/2025, 8:16:29 PM No.16729540
6.8-solar_mass_black_hole_over_Oahu
6.8-solar_mass_black_hole_over_Oahu
md5: f390ffba864abd5d4b246ded646b33a9🔍
is general relativity truly the best model for gravity if it permits singularities to exist? in any other framework, singularities indicate your model is wrong, doesn't it? the notion that there's a singularity in black holes implies indeterminate structure, yet we can't extend past that. is that due to lack of data or reasoning? if so, what happens when discussing density or entropy in that region?

also, when a black hole forms, how long does it take to form? if a bunch of mass collapses within the Schwarzschild radius, does the singularity and horizon just instantly form or is it at the speed of light?
Replies: >>16729696 >>16730050 >>16730058 >>16730070 >>16730074
Q
7/20/2025, 11:06:54 PM No.16729696
Hai
Hai
md5: cc4693c0d7609679cb21de730934057a🔍
>>16729540 (OP)
The Newtonian three-dimensional model works to get your sailboat acrost the ocean, it roughly works to get your spaceship to Mars.

The farther away you get from mass, the less your "laws" of physics actually hold true.

You can't honestly tell me that you know what happens in the void between universes.

All you can do is use your primitive, literally ancient, mathematics to extrapolate likely explanations that have reached a dead end in their usefulness.
Replies: >>16729745
Anonymous
7/21/2025, 12:23:38 AM No.16729745
>>16729696
literally wasting thread space with a pointless attempt to flex some reddit tier nihilist philosophical cynicism instead of engaging with OP's question in a constructive way,consider killing yourself bud
Replies: >>16729979 >>16730048
Anonymous
7/21/2025, 9:39:29 AM No.16729979
>>16729745
>a pointless attempt to flex some reddit tier nihilist philosophical cynicism instead of engaging with OP's question
that's like 90% of the replies you get on here now
Q
7/21/2025, 12:07:02 PM No.16730048
>>16729745
You're just too stupid to understand, and I'm not going to dumb it down for you.
Anonymous
7/21/2025, 12:09:12 PM No.16730050
>>16729540 (OP)
> in any other framework, singularities indicate your model is wrong, doesn't it?
Yes but that doesn't stop the model or theory working extremely well in the regime it is intended to apply to. Singularities are the points where they no longer work and we need a new theory.
Anonymous
7/21/2025, 12:22:30 PM No.16730058
>>16729540 (OP)
I thought the thing was that we need a theory of quantum gravity and then the GR singularities will go away. I mean it doesn't really matter, you can't observe the singularity of a black hole whether it's a physical singularity or not.
Anonymous
7/21/2025, 12:49:50 PM No.16730070
>>16729540 (OP)
>gravity is a field effect
>evaluate it as a point source
>get retarded output
This is what happens when you're too scared to accept hollow planetoids. Hell, we can even call it L 0.
Anonymous
7/21/2025, 12:57:06 PM No.16730074
>>16729540 (OP)
>is general relativity truly the best model for gravity if it permits singularities to exist?
Yes. Pretty much any theory in physics has singularities, including newtonian gravity.

> in any other framework, singularities indicate your model is wrong, doesn't it?
Kind of, it means the model is wrong for that regime, but not everywhere else. An example from a solved problem is many singularities in fluid dynamics. The solution comes from seeing what the fluid is doing in smaller scales, where we know it's made up of individual particles and we can instead treat it like that instead of some continuous thing, which solves the problem.
The same goes for black holes, as gravity is the predominant force in a smaller and smaller volume, we need to be able to say more and more what gravity does in smaller and smaller scales to solve the problem.

>the notion that there's a singularity in black holes implies indeterminate structure, yet we can't extend past that. is that due to lack of data or reasoning?
Unlike with the fluid example, we lack the ability to do experiments, so all the solutions are theoretical and people are still trying to come up with something that can be measured.

> if so, what happens when discussing density or entropy in that region?
Depends on the proposed solution. Otherwise the only thing we know for certain is what happens up to the event horizon.

>when a black hole forms, how long does it take to form?
Less than a second for the core of a star to collapse, which means the black hole is already formed, but the rest of the star is still there around the core. If you mean when the black hole is just there, it's when the supernova ends as the rest of the star gets ejected in the explosion following collapse.

>if a bunch of mass collapses within the Schwarzschild radius, does the singularity and horizon just instantly form or is it at the speed of light?
Happens at the speed of freefall for that volume and is bound by the speed of light.
Replies: >>16730082
Anonymous
7/21/2025, 1:12:30 PM No.16730082
>>16730074
1: no such thing as a point source
2: errors are acknowledged, with specification that common use is not impacted(that's odd, why is this treated differently?)
3: Nothing here should have been typed.
4. Ditto
5. There is no core.
6. More like bound by the speed of sound. It's a fucking fluid.
Replies: >>16730127
Anonymous
7/21/2025, 2:11:22 PM No.16730127
1725466797346035
1725466797346035
md5: 576bc3d9b64ec531977c69728742b855🔍
>>16730082
>1: no such thing as a point source
That's one of the examples of singularities in various theories which get resolved by treating things as not point sources. It's not the only type of singularity however, as I showed with the fluid example.
>2: errors are acknowledged, with specification that common use is not impacted(that's odd, why is this treated differently?)
You need to couple it with the first answer which shows that this is not treated differently and is the case for all of physics.
>3: Nothing here should have been typed.
Wrong. As it answers the question.
>4. Ditto
>5. There is no core.
See pic for the current models.
>6. More like bound by the speed of sound. It's a fucking fluid
I meant that it's bound by the speed of light in the same way that the speed of sound is bound by the speed of light. This kind of does become relevant because the speed of sound in these environments is relativistic according to current models.