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7/5/2025, 3:15:57 PM
>>17815208
Imo it really depends on which point you consider the soviet's demise to be "too late".
If you consider Gorbatchev to be too late, then Andropov is the last hope for the USSR. If Andropov's reforms had worked, we would've seen similar results like in China, a decentralized state-owned for profit economy but with probably a bigger focus on its population rather than a pure productive for-profit model like in China. You can actually see this in the reforms that Andropov had started : a reimplementation of Kosygin's economic model, a focus on modernisation and technocrats, stricter work rule to counter social parasitism and corruption, decentralisation etc.
If you consider Gorbatchev's as the last potential hope for the USSR, then it would've been your standard eastern-eu country : a semi-liberal conservative and nationalist country albeit with a massive size and economy. Think of current day Poland but the size of Russia (essentially Russia but more developed and with free elections).
>>17816214
He's right though. China which started with an even worse base than the USSR (Maoist china was worse than the DPRK at the time) managed to get on track with Western powers and now out compete the EU in most economic sectors.
Besides, Andropov's reforms actually addressed the problem in the Soviet model : inefficiencies, an overly centralized economy and corruption. They already had the industry, universities and white-collar workers to transition into a "modern" economy and catch up with western living standards.
Imo it really depends on which point you consider the soviet's demise to be "too late".
If you consider Gorbatchev to be too late, then Andropov is the last hope for the USSR. If Andropov's reforms had worked, we would've seen similar results like in China, a decentralized state-owned for profit economy but with probably a bigger focus on its population rather than a pure productive for-profit model like in China. You can actually see this in the reforms that Andropov had started : a reimplementation of Kosygin's economic model, a focus on modernisation and technocrats, stricter work rule to counter social parasitism and corruption, decentralisation etc.
If you consider Gorbatchev's as the last potential hope for the USSR, then it would've been your standard eastern-eu country : a semi-liberal conservative and nationalist country albeit with a massive size and economy. Think of current day Poland but the size of Russia (essentially Russia but more developed and with free elections).
>>17816214
He's right though. China which started with an even worse base than the USSR (Maoist china was worse than the DPRK at the time) managed to get on track with Western powers and now out compete the EU in most economic sectors.
Besides, Andropov's reforms actually addressed the problem in the Soviet model : inefficiencies, an overly centralized economy and corruption. They already had the industry, universities and white-collar workers to transition into a "modern" economy and catch up with western living standards.
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