>>509010982
>Yeah it's not yours under your logic.
I already consider it as such.

>that doesn't mean they aren't arbitrary.
>middle east for example is just lines drawn in the sand by colonial powers.
Exactly.
Most of the middle east has state borders. Not national borders.
You cant compare those with european borders at all. If we wanted to be accurate, middle east would have gradients, not borders. Hence my point about nations.

On the other hand, when it comes to states, the borders might be are arbitrary in terms of peoples, yet they are still meaningful. If both sides agree, and they decide to enforce it.

Eh, anyway, ill wrap it up here, i didnt read the entire thread, and i dont know what i am arguing about anymore.