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6/30/2025, 7:09:11 PM
>>24508616
>Initiation is something quite different and even the most watered down definition of it is unnecessary for a lot of magical works.
Obviously, natural and celestial magic (to a certain extent) does not need initiation, grandmothers in the Romanian countryside practice natural magic all the time, you can't even really call it magic.
>Goetic magic for example does not need initiation in any form. Most forms of ceremonial magic do not.
I'm not sure, most of the testimonies of those who practice goetia are quite disappointing, I have never met anyone who has been able to manifest a spirit in full form, most just speak of hearing voices or the flame of a candle that behaves strangely. It is quite possible that Solomonic magic requires an initiation (given the priestly nature of ceremonial magic in the West), an initiation that very few have these days.
>It is also unnecessary for using physical objects that possess various magical virtues, or for divination, or for spells (like in the PGM). It's not even necessary for ESP or "astral projection" t b h.
I disagree, even in the PGM it is stated in several places that one must be pleasing to the gods to have any effect, and again the PGM were practiced by priests who received extensive training in these things
>What initiation does is impart knowledge and power immediately and directly, it helps develop various abilities quickly and safely, and also in the case of true and complete initiation, it begins or contributes to the development of the "Great Work", that is, spiritual immortality.
Yes, but I think there is there are three problems:
The first is that the person is left to their own devices, having no master.
The second, a consequence of the first, is that the person is therefore, as I have often seen, prey to lower influences (not necessarily demons, but sometimes simply the Freudian unconscious), which they could mistake for higher influences.
Third, the person must establish communication with higher principles on their own. In Chinese magic, it is said that upon being initiated, one is immediately protected by the gods and ancestors of the lineage. On the other hand, a person who does not have this initiation must pray to Lao Zi, and it is a matter of luck to get results.
Ultimately this reflects my contingent opinion, having practiced celestial magic for less than a year without much success and having seen that failure in this domain was the norm.
>Initiation is something quite different and even the most watered down definition of it is unnecessary for a lot of magical works.
Obviously, natural and celestial magic (to a certain extent) does not need initiation, grandmothers in the Romanian countryside practice natural magic all the time, you can't even really call it magic.
>Goetic magic for example does not need initiation in any form. Most forms of ceremonial magic do not.
I'm not sure, most of the testimonies of those who practice goetia are quite disappointing, I have never met anyone who has been able to manifest a spirit in full form, most just speak of hearing voices or the flame of a candle that behaves strangely. It is quite possible that Solomonic magic requires an initiation (given the priestly nature of ceremonial magic in the West), an initiation that very few have these days.
>It is also unnecessary for using physical objects that possess various magical virtues, or for divination, or for spells (like in the PGM). It's not even necessary for ESP or "astral projection" t b h.
I disagree, even in the PGM it is stated in several places that one must be pleasing to the gods to have any effect, and again the PGM were practiced by priests who received extensive training in these things
>What initiation does is impart knowledge and power immediately and directly, it helps develop various abilities quickly and safely, and also in the case of true and complete initiation, it begins or contributes to the development of the "Great Work", that is, spiritual immortality.
Yes, but I think there is there are three problems:
The first is that the person is left to their own devices, having no master.
The second, a consequence of the first, is that the person is therefore, as I have often seen, prey to lower influences (not necessarily demons, but sometimes simply the Freudian unconscious), which they could mistake for higher influences.
Third, the person must establish communication with higher principles on their own. In Chinese magic, it is said that upon being initiated, one is immediately protected by the gods and ancestors of the lineage. On the other hand, a person who does not have this initiation must pray to Lao Zi, and it is a matter of luck to get results.
Ultimately this reflects my contingent opinion, having practiced celestial magic for less than a year without much success and having seen that failure in this domain was the norm.
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