Search Results
7/6/2025, 3:54:55 AM
>>24523866
>is this bait
It does. One of the biggest problems with LLMs is hallucinations. They are prone to give false quotations, dates, entire facts, or simply get everything wrong. It is difficult to predict when, but I can easily cause a hallucination, pic related.
Prompt:
>Why does verse 58 of the Bhikkhu Pāṭimokkha (rules for male monks) prohibit the use of "straws"? Did straws exist when this was written? It's in the alcoholic drink chapter:
>http://www.palicanon.org/index.php/vinaya-pitaka/bhikkhu-pa-imokkha#58-straw
>"58. When a bhikkhu receives a straw or implement to displace water or liquid to the mouth, is is to be confessed."
>Reply:
Great question—let’s unpack it carefully, both linguistically and historically.
---
### **The Rule: Bhikkhu Pāṭimokkha #58**
> “When a bhikkhu receives a straw or implement to displace water or liquid to the mouth, it is to be confessed.”
> *(Translation from the source you gave: palicanon.org)*
In Pāli, this rule is:
> **"Paṭiggahaṇe pānīyaṁ vā udakaṁ vā mukhena vā muñcanakaṁ vā dāruṁ vā daṇḍakaṁ vā gaṇhāti, pācittiyaṁ."**
Which roughly translates to:
> "If a monk takes (or receives) water or a liquid, or a piece of wood or stick used to pour or guide it to the mouth — there is an offense of *pācittiya* (requiring confession)."
---
### **Key Terms and What They Really Mean**
Let’s look at the term that’s being translated as **“straw”**:
* **“mukhena muñcanakaṁ”** = literally “something that releases/displaces (liquid) to the mouth”
* **“dāruṁ vā daṇḍakaṁ vā”** = “a piece of wood or a small stick”
So this isn't "straw" in the modern sense (a plastic or paper tube you suck through), but rather a **rudimentary tool** for channeling or directing water into the mouth — like a **stick, tube, or utensil**.
---
### **Did straws exist back then?**
Yes — but not like the modern soda straw. Ancient versions of straws *did* exist:
* The **Sumerians (3rd millennium BCE)** used metal straws for beer to avoid the sediment.
* In **India during the Buddha’s time (5th–4th century BCE)**, it's more likely monks might have used **reeds, bamboo tubes**, or **hollow sticks** to drink — especially when trying to avoid impurities or insects in the water.
So when this rule mentions a "straw," it's not a plastic object, but something **natural and tubular**, like a reed or stick.
---
### **Why was it prohibited?**
There are a few reasons scholars and commentaries (like the *Samantapāsādikā*, the Vinaya commentary) suggest:
(cont)
>is this bait
It does. One of the biggest problems with LLMs is hallucinations. They are prone to give false quotations, dates, entire facts, or simply get everything wrong. It is difficult to predict when, but I can easily cause a hallucination, pic related.
Prompt:
>Why does verse 58 of the Bhikkhu Pāṭimokkha (rules for male monks) prohibit the use of "straws"? Did straws exist when this was written? It's in the alcoholic drink chapter:
>http://www.palicanon.org/index.php/vinaya-pitaka/bhikkhu-pa-imokkha#58-straw
>"58. When a bhikkhu receives a straw or implement to displace water or liquid to the mouth, is is to be confessed."
>Reply:
Great question—let’s unpack it carefully, both linguistically and historically.
---
### **The Rule: Bhikkhu Pāṭimokkha #58**
> “When a bhikkhu receives a straw or implement to displace water or liquid to the mouth, it is to be confessed.”
> *(Translation from the source you gave: palicanon.org)*
In Pāli, this rule is:
> **"Paṭiggahaṇe pānīyaṁ vā udakaṁ vā mukhena vā muñcanakaṁ vā dāruṁ vā daṇḍakaṁ vā gaṇhāti, pācittiyaṁ."**
Which roughly translates to:
> "If a monk takes (or receives) water or a liquid, or a piece of wood or stick used to pour or guide it to the mouth — there is an offense of *pācittiya* (requiring confession)."
---
### **Key Terms and What They Really Mean**
Let’s look at the term that’s being translated as **“straw”**:
* **“mukhena muñcanakaṁ”** = literally “something that releases/displaces (liquid) to the mouth”
* **“dāruṁ vā daṇḍakaṁ vā”** = “a piece of wood or a small stick”
So this isn't "straw" in the modern sense (a plastic or paper tube you suck through), but rather a **rudimentary tool** for channeling or directing water into the mouth — like a **stick, tube, or utensil**.
---
### **Did straws exist back then?**
Yes — but not like the modern soda straw. Ancient versions of straws *did* exist:
* The **Sumerians (3rd millennium BCE)** used metal straws for beer to avoid the sediment.
* In **India during the Buddha’s time (5th–4th century BCE)**, it's more likely monks might have used **reeds, bamboo tubes**, or **hollow sticks** to drink — especially when trying to avoid impurities or insects in the water.
So when this rule mentions a "straw," it's not a plastic object, but something **natural and tubular**, like a reed or stick.
---
### **Why was it prohibited?**
There are a few reasons scholars and commentaries (like the *Samantapāsādikā*, the Vinaya commentary) suggest:
(cont)
Page 1