Moon-Silver Maw Edition

>What is Exalted?
An epic high-flying role-playing game about reborn god-heroes in a world that turned on them.
Start here: http://theonyxpath.com/category/worlds/exalted/

>That sounds cool, how can I get into it?
Read the 3e core book (link below). For mechanics of the old edition, play this tutorial:http://mengtzu.github.io/exalted/sakuya.html
It’ll get you familiar with most of the mechanics.

>Gosh that was fun. How do I find a group?
Roll20 and the Game Finder General here on /tg/. good luck

>Resources for Third Edition
>3E Core and Splats
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/b54o6teut3fx6/Exalted_3e

>Errata for Third Edition
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1n3ooTmopm3CBxW5jwPp1761xsaIccea-5XIhVM_PQEc/edit

>Other Ex3 Resources
https://pastebin.com/fG1mLMdu

>Resources for Older Editions
https://pastebin.com/BXSGuFdQ

>Collection of Exalted Hacks
https://pastebin.com/gtZnycJs

>Stuff that might be interesting
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/the-exalted-thread-with-no-original-ideas.317216/

Last thread:>>95757933

Thread Questions: How do you make write a Lunar Tell that doesn't suck? Do you even bother to use those rules when you include them in your games?

>>95837260 (OP)
>Thread Questions: How do you make write a Lunar Tell that doesn't suck?
The only ones I've seen that don't suck were either put in place specifically so that they could be dramatic visual effects in play, or that were there to tie into a backstory thing. For the former, I'm talking like the supernatural horror movie monster's key tell, like when they unfurl their claws as they come out of the cupboard, your friend turns to you and the other side of their face has a blind eye, or you're looking at two birds gossiping and only one of them has a shadow. Stunt fodder for the Lunar player or the Storyteller with a Lunar NPC basically. The latter case, with backstory ties, it's more like having claws because you can't hug or shake hands in the fight pits, or your eye was blinded by XYZ backstory guy in a pivotal fight and you need revenge, or your shadow is missing because you abandoned it to escape your former master's sorcerous chains. Rather than stunt fodder, these are RP and story fodder, and if those backstory elements develop/resolve they still make good ways to call back to old stories.

>>95837260 (OP)
>How do you make write a Lunar Tell that doesn't suck?
OP's totem form is a Skaven

>>95832823
>Depends on what you love about oWoD, 3e aligns with V5's personal horrorfags
V5 is new old World of Darkness (noWoD) not oWoD

>>95833592
>I think it has been clarified that the great elemental dragons are not Gaias sub souls
they never were
neither was Creation Gaia's World Body
except in that one Alchemical writeup where someone injected an oWoDism that was never present before or after that

>>95834352
just use 1e rules for Resonance

>>95837367
>they never were
>neither was Creation Gaia's World Body
>except in that one Alchemical writeup where someone injected an oWoDism that was never present before or after that
... Given how much is aped from WoD you would think they would make that difference clearer if they were going anywhere with it given how Malfeas and Auto are also locations.

>>95837367
>V5 is new old World of Darkness (noWoD) not oWoD
It is WoD, but the serious and mature real role-players™ took hold of the line.
They did what they always wanted to do.

>>95837253
Are you really allowed to have multiple different poisons in one meal? This sounds like chicanery.

>>95837527
Pretty much.

>>95837647
It would be like putting multiple spices in the same meal. Unless the ST is very arbitrary about it it should be possible.

>>95837367
>neither was Creation Gaia's World Body
>except in that one Alchemical writeup where someone injected an oWoDism that was never present before or after that
There is enough of connection between Gaia and Creation's geomancy that there's effectively no difference. The Balorian Crusade fucking up geomancy indisposed her. The dragonlines settling down was described with 'When Gaia healed' (Gods and Elementals pg115). She is said to have tied Creation's geomancy intimately to herself (Glories: Luna pg6). Any claim that Creation isn't Gaia's world-body runs into the problem that you can then assert on the same principle that Autochthonia isn't Autochthon's world-body because he built it rather than having it come out automatically.

>I think it has been clarified that the great elemental dragons are not Gaias sub souls
More specifically they are an equivalent of the incarnae to the Terrestrial Courts. Behemoths made by Gaia, sat at the top of the terrestrial bureaucracy, and according to Gods and Elementals they are considered terrestrial gods just like many sources consider the Incarnae celestial gods, despite them not really being anything like that.

>>95837647
Yes, but it depends on how it's prepared. You're probably going to have a much easier time noticing it's poisoned with more poison in it. The rules are really fucking lax on it though - it says 'When a character is first exposed to a poison' is when you roll to resist, and gives a eating a poisoned meal as an example, but then talks about multiple exposures like 'Multiple doses of the same poison stack their durations—if a character is already suffering from arsenic poisoning, consuming a new dose will simply add to the length of the preexisting condition' which strongly implies that you can get people to ingest multiple doses of arsenic in one sitting (and given it's ingestion, this would mean at a meal).

>>95837665
Different poisons in the same meal (i.e. having both arsenic and hemlock in the same meal) would be like this, but having multiple doses of the same poison would be more like intensifying the flavor.

>>95837744
you're mistake is using 2e

Where does Holden publish his Demake stuff? I know that what's currently out is in the pastebin linked in the OP, but where would one get the word of something new coming out as soon as possible?

>>95837789
Anon's 'clarified that the elemental dragons are not gaias sub souls' is from 2e, and Gaia's 'creation is not gaia's world body' is also very 2e-ish since world bodies were barely even a thing in 1e.

>>95837801
>Where does Holden publish his Demake stuff?
Holden's discord server, and then rarely it gets shared outside of that - however, there is a google drive that's being updated by someone in the server.

https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/1LLrK9Czu7d0brXhUqraKqgKBUrYPAXyy

>>95837871
Thanks, anon, much appreciated.

>>95837778
Speaking of poisons, are there any wood aspect charms for poisonous/venomous effects or are their limited to their anima?

>>95837260 (OP)
Are there such things as gods of Sorcery directly, or would I need to make a god of, say, a school of Sorcery to get a Sorcery-based Exigent? And besides getting access to Sorcery immediately after Exalting, what Charms might they get? I was thinking one that temporarily reduces the cost of Sorcery spells.

>>95840245
afaik no god of sorcery, at least I never remember seeing one

So is Exalted basically Isekai: The TTRPG?

>>95840860
Not really, only Getimians are isekai like.

>>95840860
No jumpchain-kun, it is nothing like that at all.

>>95840937
It has some parallels both in the products and the way the fanbase acts.
But it is more of a convergent evolution, similar to how exalted developed some xanxia like traits, despite not being inspired by it.

>>95837367
>except in that one Alchemical writeup where someone injected an oWoDism that was never present before or after that
Injecting oWoDisms into Exalted is such a sacred cow it even lives on in 3e, where Grand Maw is a sorcerer initiator for some ineffable reason.

>>95837367
>>95843007
Cribbing things from oWoD and trying to create parallels in the settings has been an unmitigated disaster for the Exalted line that has dragged it down since first edition.

At this point I'd rather have a rando buy the rights to the setting and rebuild it from the ground up that allow it to be continuously left to languish and consistently come up short as it has for every edition since the game was created.

>>95843076
>Cribbing things from oWoD and trying to create parallels in the settings has been an unmitigated disaster for the Exalted line that has dragged it down since first edition.
It is like OWoD to NWoD transition, you cannot port whole cloth.
You need to spiritually adapt it first, make the concepts Exalted's.

Yandere power rankings
>S-tier: Lunar (steals face of girl you actually like and pretends to be her), Sidereal (gets girl you like thrown into Heaven jail for no reason, then makes a new RD to be your new gf each time you catch her)
>A-tier: Getimian (gaslights you so you were always in love with her), Solar (perfect stalking)
>B-tier: DB (calls Wyld Hunt to imprison you, then comes to you in jail), Alchemical (becomes the entire city you live in),
>C-tier: Liminal, Infernal (no special yandere powers),
>D-tier: Abyssal (just straight-up murders the girl you like, then stalks you, never revealing herself or why)

>>95840860
No, but Isekai and Exalted (and xianxia) are genres with some shared common qualities. For example, they have a tendency towards Mary Sue protagonists, overpowered protagonists, having the more 'spiritual' institutions be the bad guys, emphasizing the power of technology as it interacts with magic, having commonly available but under-exploited magical resources, harem and fast romance, an eclectic mix of western and asian aesthetics, an instigating event that launches the protagonist into the rest of the story by removing them from their old home/context to which they never truly return, positing rational behavior as an unusual/exceptional strength, characters (not even necessarily just protagonists) going on infamously bad crash-outs, and more.

>>95844313
>Yandere power rankings
Infernal is right if it's the 3e version, but 2e Infernals have Adorjan and the Ebon Dragon as patrons, and deserve A-Tier for the sheer awfulness that 'i must seduce and marry you away from other people to avoid my unnatural Urge' with powersets like 'must be manipulative, cannot be charismatic' and 'i will have your children, no intercourse required' can be. Alchemicals aren't really that bad even if they do become the whole city you live in, since they're kind of clunky once they get that big and you can still slip away, C-tier at worst but I'd put them in D-tier. On that note, Abyssals as D-tier yandere, what are you thinking? If you put Solars in A-Tier for perfect stalking then Abyssals should at least be at that same tier, but you have to add in that they're the GF that will unwillingly kill you / everybody you love by getting too close to you because of their dark resonance. I'd put them in B-Tier, and Solars too.

>>95844884
Exalted doesn't have a tendency for any of that if you actually play it.

>>95844942
>Exalted doesn't have a tendency for any of [the shit you get up to in a typical Exalted game] if you actually play it

Does the Realm canonically have brothels?

>>95844884
Exalted player characters are nowhere near xianxi protagonists in terms of being overpowered Mary Sues, as there are other Exalts around who are just as cool and awesome and powerful. An Exalt is never going to be as special as a xianxia MC. The Immaculate Faith is antagonistic to the default PC splat, but with all their charity and teaching peasants to read and genuinely striving to live up to their own ideals and so on they' hardly the bad guys. Harems and fast romance can be a thing in any setting, sure, especially ones where main characters are powerful people, but those things aren't really special or particularly typical of Exalted.

>>95845073
>Exalted player characters are nowhere near xianxi protagonists in terms of being overpowered Mary Sues
In terms of how they compare to the people around them, they are. In terms of absolute power obviously not but when it comes to genre it's always a relative thing. I understand that I've cherry picked this out of the full statement, but I know someone would think it separate so I figured I'd address it anyway.

>Exalted player characters are nowhere near xianxi protagonists in terms of being overpowered Mary Sues, as there are other Exalts around who are just as cool and awesome and powerful
No, there aren't. Exalted player characters are intended to be, at least in late 2e, 3e, and Essence, more powerful than Exalted NPCs. You can look at the antagonist sections if you want to see how they want things to be. Most games I've been in have run on this in effect even if the Storyteller hasn't specifically intended it, that you are the overpowering hero and that other Exalted are in the slot of 'meaningful NPCs' but not in the slot of 'peers'. From the beginning Exalted protagonists have been growing way, way faster than Exalted NPCs have been expected to grow, and it's pretty much always been chalked up to PCs just being built different. What makes xianxia protagonists overpowered is that they do grow in exactly this way. They might be stronger in their default day-by-day than the people around them but usually they go hang out with stronger people when that happens for too long until they outgrow them too.

>the Immaculate Faith are hardly the bad guys
In the Exalted narrative, yes, they are. A lot of isekai evil churches will feed the masses in the background too. How we the audience / playerbase interacts with them is what matters there. If you're DB they lie to you, if you're Celestial they hunt you. They are clear baddies.

>>95844973
Yes.

>>95845111
>In terms of how they compare to the people around them, they are.
What kinds of games do you play in where PCs exclusively deal with people weaker than them instead of having peer rivals?

>In the Exalted narrative, yes, they are.
No. They're just antagonists to Solars and Lunars. I don't remember how 2E wrote them, but both 1E and 3E make it clear that they're not written as baddies, just antagonists.

>>95845129
>What kinds of games do you play in where PCs exclusively deal with people weaker than them instead of having peer rivals?
the reading 1d4chan article game

>>95845073
>Immaculate faith

That's Lookshy's version, and by extension, in a lot of places descended from the Shogunate that aren't as strongly influenced by the Realm. Expect to see it in a lot of places in the Scavenger Lands, accordingly.

The Realm's version is specifically called the Immaculate Order.

>>95845129
>What kinds of games do you play in where PCs exclusively deal with people weaker than them instead of having peer rivals?
That's not what I mean by the characters being overpowered anon. I literally explained that Exalted characters are overpowered in terms of how fast they grow. To a lesser extent this is also in terms of how much impact their powers have on the game but that's less of a problem because ultimately the game is about the player's characters.

They are also overpowered in the immediate sense relative to the people around them, but that's more a thing of players knowing their character's abilities and the game being designed around the idea that the Storyteller either won't or the antagonists will be built with simplified (and much weaker) arrays of abilities than any player character. Obviously this is more the case in 3e/essence but it was alive and well in 2e.

>>95844884
>having commonly available but under-exploited magical resources
This is so antithetical to Exalted that it makes me know for absolute sure you are from jumpchain. Since fucking 1e, the common difference that people can point to between D&D and Exalted societies has been the example of an enchanted jug that produces vast quantities of water.

In (most) D&D settings, that'd just be a curiosity sold in a store. In Exalted, an entire society would develop around it. Mortals in Exalted have ALWAYS exploited resources. When they can't, it is literally because they absolutely cannot and need some reagent (hint hint: an Exalted) to come along and facilitate it.

You are a dumb fuck. The rest of your post is just vague shit that applies because most people who read Exalted are into anime and those anime tropes predate the Isekai rise in the late 2010s to now.

>>95840937
>>95845251
What the fuck is a jumpchain?

>>95845277
nta but it's basically people who come into this thread who have only read Exalted from enthusiastic up-players and then start talking shit. it's pretty boring to talk with them, because unlike most of the /exg/ regulars who have actually maybe read one book at some point, jumpchainers use 1d4chan/GiTP/wodg posts to inform them about Exalted.

jumpchainers are unusually confident about how a game they have never played or read should be played.

>>95845193
>That's not what I mean by the characters being overpowered anon. I literally explained that Exalted characters are overpowered in terms of how fast they grow. To a lesser extent this is also in terms of how much impact their powers have on the game but that's less of a problem because ultimately the game is about the player's characters.
tbf this is partly because people don't tend to do downtime and ignore training times

>>95845277
It's a CYOA that, from what I understand, involves "jumping" between different setting, taking power from each, or something like that. I don't generally mind CYOAs and I -read/play/whatever-the-correct-word-is some myself from time to time as a sort of fodder for daydreaming, but Jumpchain is annoying because it by nature isn't self-contained and encourages people to engage in an obnoxious sort of setting tourism.

>>95845251
>Mortals in Exalted have ALWAYS exploited resources.
By 'underexploited resources' I wasn't referring to things people were able to easily exploit and choosing not to because they weren't reasonable individuals, I was referring to the plentiful opportunities which people aren't exploiting because they're not powerful heroes. Sorcery being something anyone can theoretically pick up and use but which nobody does because they're just not good enough. Ruins nobody's plundered because of the dangers involved. Things like that, which create a world of opportunities for a (player) character with sufficient luck/power and gumption.

>The rest of your post is just vague shit that applies because most people who read Exalted are into anime and those anime tropes predate the Isekai rise in the late 2010s to now.
Yeah? It's accurate even if the reason behind it's lame.

>>95845251
>>95845583
Oh and I'll also say that this is the case in most isekai and xianxia that have the trope as well. People aren't usually just being stupid like in picrel, they're not exploiting a resource because they don't know how or aren't able to, and then the wandering demigod walks in and goes 'huh i could use this to do something absolutely bananas' because he has some silly ability or artifact. Like when a Solar walks into town and goes 'hey i like your pretty trinket mind if I hold it for a minute (Crack-Mending Technique) now it's an essence cannon', or when a cultivator picks up some grass and goes 'this is a useful substitute for the Ten Millennium Lotus Petal in my Yin-Yang Supreme Inversion Pill'.

>>95845073
>Exalted player characters are nowhere near xianxi protagonists in terms of being overpowered Mary Sues
Getimians are as psychotic.

> there are other Exalts around who are just as cool and awesome and powerful.
A small but "with connections to devs" part of the fanbase really hates this.

>>95843076
>Cribbing things from oWoD and trying to create parallels in the settings has been an unmitigated disaster for the Exalted line that has dragged it down since first edition.
The thing is that "What if WoD was an actual fantasy setting?" Is basically the foundation of Exalted. The main problem is that WoD wrote itself into a corner with the times of judgment and that has echoed across Exalted.

Nowadays the new story threads have to build themselves up because the old lines only had one "canon" outcome in mind.

>>95845643
I mean... You can do something like that just say that your character is a Twilight with the Past Lives background who came from a stone age tribe and you can play pic related.

>>95847271

Where do I find the apocryphal moon casts?

>>95845583
>Sorcery being something anyone can theoretically pick up and use but which nobody does because they're just not good enough
even if I used 3e's "mortals can learn sorcery" method I'd still use the Forgotten Realms byline of "you need to have that spark of magic to be able to learn magic or even if you spend your whole life trying to learn"
then again some of the initiations are basically Warlock pacts. Hmm.

>>95837260 (OP)
Weekly Update
>FINAL DRAFTS
Abyssals Companion: Riders from the Sunless Lands
The Exalted train keeps on steaming ahead! This time the Riders from the Sunless Lands have moved on to final drafts
>Art Direction
Alchemicals – Awaiting art notes
Champions of the Divine Flame – Getting this on the go
>Layout
Essence Novella Omnibus – With Travis
Miracles of the Divine Flame – Should be in proofing this week
>Proofing
Abyssals – Sending cover off for approval then going out to KS backers hopefully
>Press
Exigents – Quoting
Exigents Screen – At Studio 2
Sidereals – Quoting
The Three Banners Festival (Exigents Jumpstart) – PDF and PoD versions on sale today on DTRPG!
the exigents jumpstart is now out. we have a backer pdf version, but if anyone could donate the final version we'd all appreciate it. next release is possibly that omnibus of novellas. but more importantly, the abyssals backer pdf is close, possibly a matter of weeks
other notable news
mel uran's gofundme for her kidney stone's has capped donations for now, thank you anyone who donated
not much announced at all at onyx path con, but there'll be an essence st guide
the onyx path sale on drivethrurpg/indiepressrevolution is up by 6/13 and 6/15 respectively. wouldn't usually mention it, but lots of stuff outside the newest is half price or so

>>95837260 (OP)
to whomsoever updates, the novella What Lies Forgotten and the Essence Player's Guide manuscript are both in newvola

>>95847553
They were published in dreams of the first age.

>>95848723
>mel uran's gofundme for her kidney stone's has capped donations for now, thank you anyone who donated
>not much announced at all at onyx path con, but there'll be an essence st guide
Oh, good for her, I hope nothing goes wrong

>>95837260 (OP)
>>95848723
seems the abyssals backer pdf is nearly out. i personally hope they give the day/moonshadow castes an ability loadout a little farther away from nights/eclipses, but regardless of what changes come from the manuscript, we have one important question:
which one of these deathless hipster dufuses will grace the cover?

>>95848748
>They were published in dreams of the first age.
Thanks

>>95848649
3e does have the "you need an ineffable spark" thing as of Dragonblooded book onwards

How in the ever loving fuck is Vaneha going to invade the Scavenger Lands when those dumb motherfuckers have ONE guy, the leader, who can use a daiklave?

>>95849864
they're specifically invading the hundred kingdoms, which is the least organized part of the scavenger lands.

>>95850149
Great Forks has a mutual defense pact with Lookshy and Nexus, and Vaneha explicitly want to go fuck with Great Forks.

>>95849864
>hose dumb motherfuckers have ONE guy, the leader, who can use a daiklave
Does it say that somewhere? The cultural significance of the Imperial Daiklave doesn't inherently imply that Vaneha has only one guy who can use a daiklave or who otherwise has supernatural power. It just means that the Imperial Daiklave specifically is a big deal for the Vanehans.

>>95852356
It'd be a take that was hard to believe, since anyone can hire mercenaries that can use daiklaves and the like, at the very least. Vaneha, as a prominent country, probably has its own group of outcastes, Exigents, and God-Blooded more than capable of tapping into the Evocation train.

>>95847195
The thing is, none of the WoD shit needs to be here. Sure, "What if WoD was an actual fantasy setting?" may be why Exalted is here, but given the the actual works used to really fill out the world are Robert E. Howard, Michael Moorcock, and Tanith Lee, why can't we just stop trying to constantly use WoD as the default reference of the setting and instead allow it to be more than that. It is an anchor around the setting's neck that the lore is never allowed to really establish itself before someone has to complain that it's getting to far from it's WoD roots. And this is despite the fact the everyone seems to be in agreement that trying to connect it to WoD was stupid in the first place.

This is why I say that the best thing that could happen to the ip at this point is for it to get sold to someone who actually cares enough to give it the resources and effort it deserves. As long as Paradox owns it as a +1 to the things they really want this will never be the case.

>>95852716
>Robert E. Howard, Michael Moorcock, and Tanith Lee
Unfortunately, I don't think these works were the core of exalted.

Making of Exalted confirmed that Abyssals and The underworld were entirely Wraith's, which explains why they are so "weak".
They belong to another setting.

>>95852716
>The thing is, none of the WoD shit needs to be here.
The Ebon Dragon and the Scarlet Empress (well, Queen) were in Kindred of the East before Exalted was even written. The Wan Xian are also really obviously the Dragon-Blooded.

Obviously jacking yourself off to continuity porn that mutilates the setting is shit, but it's also shit when it happens with Exalted-only material, like having Halta and Lookshy have meaningful relations.

>>95852792
The Scarlet Empress and the Ebon Dragon originally were alternative names for the Weaver and the Wyrm, the Wyld was the white tiger.

Also, Exalted takes place during the second age, and the method of "Exaltedion" is like the one of celestials.

>>95852765
…Okay in all seriousness have you ever actually read any of the work of the authors I mentioned? I’m guessing not. I’m also guessing that the entirety of your idea for the inspirations of Exalted comes from the Making of Exalted book. If this is the case then all I can really say is pic related.

Yes, WoD served as a large source of inspiration for the gameplay aspects of Exalted, but the actual setting and the elements that make it up draw HEAVILY from the work of those three authors. Tanith Lee’s Tales From the Flat Earth series in particular is the inspiration for about 70% of what is in the books right down to the language they try to ape. It’s not just about pulling individual elements from WoD, the setting is more than those individual elements. To try and talk about where the setting came from without actually reading any of the source material that is literally listed in the books and stuff you should be looking at to better understand the setting is like watching a couple of youtube essays on writing breakdowns in movies and unironically start bandying about the term media literacy in conversation.

It’s how we end up with people like this moron >>95844884 who have probably never read anything over 30 years old in their life and unironically think that Isekai invented the tropes of epic storytelling. (Hint, your about 4000 years off) Hell, Isekai didn’t even invent the concept of being pulled into another world… or being reincarnated into one for that matter.

>>95852716
>The thing is, none of the WoD shit needs to be here.

While I understand where you are coming from, most of Exalted's identity boils down to an extension of WoD's weebness and late 90s bullshit. There is very little that can be done to flesh out the game in a way that doesn't feel like it is clashing with the rest of the setting, besides trying to remix the rest of its predecessor and what inspired it.

While I haven't read the works of the authors you mentioned, I sincerely believe that it is much more likely the writers of the first edition were mainly inspired by their contemporaries rather than actual pulp fiction and old sci-fi.

The best thing I can see happening to this game line is having someone take a look at what happened to the other line and see what can be implemented in Exalted. Stuff like better modular plot lines and less jank rules.

>>95853305
Tanith Lee inspirations are extremely obvious to people who've read Tsles from the Flat Earth. Why do you consider it unlikely that 1E writers' sources of inspiration were the ones they explicitly stated to be their sources of inspiration?

>>95852430
It's never mentioned that's how they supplement their army.

>>95852838
>The Scarlet Empress and the Ebon Dragon originally were alternative names for the Weaver and the Wyrm, the Wyld was the white tiger.
Nah, they were the Phoenix and the Dragon - separate from the Empress and Ebon Dragon funnily enough in every written material.

>>95852996
>unironically think that Isekai invented the tropes of epic storytelling. (Hint, your about 4000 years off) Hell, Isekai didn’t even invent the concept of being pulled into another world… or being reincarnated into one for that matter.
If you think those tropes are default to epic storytelling then I think your brain may perhaps have rotted, friend.

>>95853754
It's never mentioned that Vaneha for some reason lacks that option that's open to the rest of Creation. Neither is it stated that they have an unusual lack of God-Blooded or Outcastes.

>>95853904
>unusual lack of
the overwhelming majority of creation do not have access to godblooded armies or Outcases, which is why when they do, it's mentioned.

>>95853904
>>95852430
Vaneha does not get its power from magic mercenaries or outcastes, it gets its power from clans and the population. That's explicit in the write up.
The one thing he is trying to do now that Vaneha wasn't before is finding First Age relics.

>>95853913
That's not even remotely true. Outcastes can pop up anywhere, and the likelihood of a major nation like Vaneha having none is unlikely. Generally only major concentrations of Dragon-Blooded are specifically called out. As for God-Blooded, they aren't super rare.

What's the most liminal color-scheme?

>>95853941
You are once again just pulling shit out of your ass. Vaneha does not have any Outcastes in its arsenal at the moment from its clans nor are any Godblooded mentioned.

When a group has Outcastes, it is mentioned. Like Azure, a mortal run polity that explicitly has a lot of Outcastes it can depend upon. Or like Great Forks, who has Outcastes/Exigents/Godblooded it explicitly depends upon. Actually show quotes from the book or shut your retarded ass up.

>>95854158
There are several thousands of Outcastes in Creation, randomly Exalting here and there, and it's ridiculous to claim that any major, populous nation has none unless otherwise stated. God-Blooded are, of course, far more common - or at least were in the previous editions, I doubt 3E's given any numbers for them. You're the one suggesting an unusual lack of supernatural elements in Vaneha's population, so you're the one who should come up with some citations here.

>>95854619
nta but
>There are several thousands of Outcastes in Creation
And you may have noticed that of the fourteen thousand outcastes, the major majority of them are clustered strongly in the top three spots.

>randomly Exalting here and there
You say this like you expect an even distribution of Dragonblooded outcastes. This is not what is actually happening. Surprisingly or not, Dragonblooded outcastes tend to Exalt in places where Dragonblooded have gone. The Haslanti League has it's share of outcastes because it's withstood four crusades. Nexus is a popular vacation spot for Lookshy's Dragonblood. Chiaroscuro has a garrison and gets loads of people swooping in for it's trade.

Mahalanka? Sunken Luthe? Skullstone? Hell, I'm a fan of the idea that the Empress once controlled the entire Threshold, including everything out to the Wyld, and even I don't think dynasts have been fucking in Dajaz. I acknowledge that it's possible for a one-off character to come from any of them, but it's not the default. This isn't an evenly distributed population map, it's clustered as all hell around the Inland Sea and Scavenger Lands just like the rest of the population is and if anything more so.

>>95855002
I don't expect an even distribution of Outcastes, but I'd expect a wealthy, powerful nation like Vaneha to draw more Dragon-Blooded that most of Creation, and especially so when it's gearing up for a war of conquest with all the opportunities that implies.

>>95852996
>…Okay in all seriousness have you ever actually read any of the work of the authors I mentioned? I’m guessing not. I’m also guessing that the entirety of your idea for the inspirations of Exalted comes from the Making of Exalted book. If this is the case then all I can really say is pic related.
I actually have, it was me who posted excepts from night's master a long while ago.

>Yes, WoD served as a large source of inspiration for the gameplay aspects of Exalted, but the actual setting and the elements that make it up draw HEAVILY from the work of those three authors.
It is the source code, the authors are just the skin and the better parts.
I recognize the shadow of Howard in the Caste Books, but ultimately exalted isn't a child of these works, specially as the editions went on.

>Tanith Lee’s Tales From the Flat Earth series in particular is the inspiration for about 70% of what is in the books right down to the language they try to ape.
I learned from capeshit that you can outright plagiarize some author without actually being influenced by them.

The relationship between these works and exalted, is similar to Alan Moore and DC.

>Isekai and Exalted.
Exalted fans react to relevant canon solars, like haremfags do to a relevant guy being introduced.

>>95853481
>Tanith Lee inspirations are extremely obvious to people who've read Tsles from the Flat Earth
I recognized hell/Malfeas, but it is fundamentally different.

Newer writers really don't want Ligier being an Azhrarn like figure, and are trying to push the Deathlords to this role.

>>95854619
Again, you are just pulling shit out of your ass about how common mote having Godblooded / Outcastes are and it's completely incongruent with how the setting is written, let alone how Vaneha specifically is written.

Also, Outcastes that are in GROUPS are usually significant. Even if I was being majorly charitable to your headcanon (no citations btw?), there'd be at max like one or two guys there.

don't vaneha have 99 devil stars?

>>95853481
>Why do you consider it unlikely that 1E writers' sources of inspiration were the ones they explicitly stated to be their sources of inspiration?
Mostly because their citations of older literature come across as weirdly pretentious and "oh yeah we totally meant to mirror this myth" rather than it being done intentionally.

Odds are this is me not giving them enough credit and my disinterest in the short stories letting my picture of the game grow very distant from the intended one.

The Sayings of Exalted (Whose Soul is by the WoD)

Exalted said: “Let no man pray tonu devs, for who shall troublenu devswith mortal woes or irk them with the sorrows of all the houses of fandom?

“Nor let any sacrifice tonu devs, for what glory shall them find in sacrifices or altars who hath made by 1e itself?

“Pray to the sources of inspiration, who are the Doing; butnu devsare the gods of not Having Done — the god of Having Promised and of the not delivering.

“Pray to the homebrewers and hope that they may hear thee. Yet what mercy should the homebrewers have, who themselves made Death and Pain; or shall they restrain their old hound Shitposting for thee?

“Exalted is but a small game. Yet Exalted is Exalted — it is written and hath been said.

“Pray, thou, therefore, to 1e, and forget not 1e, and it may be that 1e will not forget to send thee Death when most thou needest it.”

And the People of Earth said: “There is a melody upon the Earth as though ten thousand streams all sang together for their homes that they had forsaken in the hills.”

And Exalted said: “I am the Lord of jank mechanics and of foaming lore and of still. I am the Lord of all the flame wars in the world and all that long debates garner in the hills; but the soul of exalted is in the WoD. Thither goes all that glides upon Earth, and the end of all the posts is the archive.”

And exalted said: “The hand of exalted hath toyed with Tanith, adown the Howard have trod the feet of Exalted, and out of the books of the store regard the eyes of Exalted; but the soul of Exalted is in the WoD.”

Much homage hath Exalted among the forums of men and pleasant are the ST's paths and the paths of the players, and pleasant the high campaigns where he danceth in the tables; but Exalted would be fettered neither by canon nor boundaries — so the soul of exalted is in WoD

>>95853953
Dull teals and greens with black details.
White for when the bloodshed starts your clothes become a work of art and war.
Medical and Funerary garb.

Did I miss any other styles?

>>95855987
>>95853953
I go by reverse Abyssal, lively floral patterns, earthly tones, the use of wood accessories, verdant greens and shades of pinks and reds.

>>95848797
The least abyssal looking retards in the whole world.
Holly shit they need to fire whoever is in charge of designing new characters.

>>95855002
>And you may have noticed that of the fourteen thousand outcastes, the major majority of them are clustered strongly in the top three spots.
There are, however, around 5,000 Dragon-Blooded unaffiliated with either the Realm, Lookshy or Prasad, according to WFHW. Sure, some of them will belong to some lesser but established Dragon-Blooded lineage, but there's also a fair number of 'independent' Outcastes born of mortal stock.

>>95856478
And you'll note that when they're in groups of more than say, half a dozen, that's a noteworthy thing.

That isn't to say you aren't allowed to headcanon adding groups somewhere, but the other anon's assertion that Vaneha has a bunch of Godblooded and Outcasts on payroll is just incorrect.

>>95856507
The assertion an anon made was that Vaneha has literally just one guy who can wield a daiklave, and pointing out the existence of God-Blooded and Outcastes, including mercenaries, was to refute that. No one ITT has claimed anything more drastic than that about Vaneha's Dragon- or God-Blooded population.

>>95856536
>The assertion an anon made was that Vaneha has literally just one guy who can wield a daiklave
That's in the text and that guy is lauded as a significant factor
>and pointing out the existence of God-Blooded and Outcastes, including mercenaries, was to refute that
This isn't mentioned in the text though, nor hinted at, nor alluded to. That anon, you, said that Vaneha had a lot of Outcases and Godblooded to be perform the feat. That's just not the case and is headcanon. The way in which he, you, implied it was ubiquitous is incongruent with the setting.

>>95856683
>That's in the text and that guy is lauded as a significant factor
No, what's in the text is that the Sword Prince wields the Imperial Daiklave. You can't logically infer from that only the Sword Prince out of all Vanehans can wield a daiklave. The guy's a signiicant factor because he's the ruler and the Imperal Daiklave - not any daiklave, that specific daiklave that's the Vanehan symbol of rulership - is what marks him as the ruler. Vaneha's writeup says nothing at all about Gensuji's personal prowess or the powers of his blade.

>This isn't mentioned in the text though, nor hinted at, nor alluded to.
Every location writeup does not need to specifically remind readers that Outcastes, God-Blooded, spirits, elementals and other supernatural beings exist in the setting, anon. Most readers - not you, I guess, but most - can keep basic setting facts in mind when reading specific writeups.

>That anon, you, said that Vaneha had a lot of Outcases and Godblooded to be perform the feat.
Trying to lie to me about what I, personally, said is pretty dumb even for /exg/. No, anon, that "a lot" there is your own addition.

>The way in which he, you, implied it was ubiquitous is incongruent with the setting.
Not ubiquitous. Just, you know, a thing. Something that exists. Outcastes exist, there are thousands of them, not every random village has one but a populous nation, which Vaneha appears to be, not having any is just statistically unlikely. Having no God-Blooded is even more unlikely, unless Vaneha has Realm-tier prohibitions for fraternizing between spirits and mortals - and unlike the presence of some Outcastes or God-Blooded, such restrictions would genuinely be something that should be explicitly spelled out in the writeup. 1E had one God-Blooded for every few hundreds of mortals to be a pretty normal God-Blooded population in most of Creation, and while I doubt they're that common in 3E, there's nothing implying they're supposed to be super rare.

>>95856831
Exalted is like lol's lore, a lot of separate parts that don't interact unless the writers specify that they in fact do.

>I didn't say that location has X, but it has X.
Numinous.

>>95856882
>Numinous.
Now, I just said that trying to lie to me about something I myself said is pretty dumb even for this place, but it's outright brilliant compared to genuinely not understanding the difference between "Vaneha probably has some Dragon-Blooded" and "Vaneha has a lot of Dragon-Blooded". I'd usually expect even peak ESL posters to know what "a lot" means.

>>95856831
nta but the setting does not assume that things like outcast/godblooded/spirit mercs are things that are common in the world, that's why it's mentioned and why it's sort of an asspull to say that vaneha has lots of people who could say, use a daiklave.

and yeah, it is lots of, because the convo started with the feasibility of Vaneha invading Great Forks, which does actually have stated lots of outcastes/exigents/spirits and more in their army. you're just making weird assumptions about the setting where a place would need a sidebar clarifying there aren't many supernatural elements.

it is the opposite. that is true in 1e as well, where Godblooded were even bigger powerhouses.

Does exalted have a conversion guide between editions?

>>95856831
You cannot logically infer that the Sword Prince, who is noted as being significant for wielding a daiklave and leading Vaneha to victory, is actually...less significant than the unspoken, unmentioned spirits/exigents/godblooded/outcastes he has on payroll.
>Every location writeup does not need to specifically remind readers that Outcastes, God-Blooded, spirits, elementals and other supernatural beings exist in the setting, anon.
As >>95857311 says, you have that backward. A8D is explicit that supernatural elements and demographics to places are significant and will be mentioned. I am not denying that there are no such things in Vaneha. I am denying that they are at all noteworthy in the forces of Vaneha, which the game supports, which you have to headcanon.
>Just a thing
Even in 1e, it will be mentioned if a location has a notable amount of them, such as Whitewall, Harborhead, Bluehaven and more.

And yes, we are talking about a "notable" amount of them because we're talking about how Vaneha is able to stand a chance against Great Forks in conventional warfare. You haven't read 3e which you admit, and you haven't read 1e either considering how batshit backwards your opinions are about things.

I was going to shit on this retarded general for not reading the books, but in fairness this was added in the final draft.

No, it has nothing to do with unnamed legions of Outcastes or Godblooded. It's pic related. A powerful Court will give blessings to the clans, but most of all, the Imperial Daiklave is about to channel the mountain's monstrous power. It's easily 5 dot or N/A judging by its descriptions.

This is how Vaneha keeps up with more magic guys. Whether you think that stands up to scrutiny is anyone's guess, but it's not because they have a bunch of combat optimized Godblooded. Jesus christ, just read the books instead of sputtering about your homebrew.

>>95857934
3e isn't the Night's Land, but sometimes its prose is really hard to understand.

>>95855223
The newer writers are also doing a terrible job because they are fundamentally unwilling to accept that part of what made Tanith Lee characters work is that she was completely upfront about showing them to be objectively terrible people capable of pillaging, rape and murder.

>>95855518
What the fuck are you even supposed to do with 99 devil stars when we don't even know what they are?

>>95858516
we're actually getting stats on devil stars in the Sidereal Companion (Or the Exigent companion?).

>Devil-Stars
>Devil-stars are towering beings of glittering varicolored crystal, easily reaching twenty feet or higher. Beheld in aggregate they resemble a human skeleton with insectile features like compound eyes, chitin or mandibles, and vast razor-sharp wings. Looking at any specific component reveals its anatomy is disconnected, segments hovering barely apart. From just the right angle, they appear almost feminine in a strange way, like alien cousins to the Maidens. Around their waists hover shrunken stars, to serve as sustenance or vessels for their daughters.

I'm happy that Alchemicals can become Colossi at lower Essence levels, even if it's meant to be a somewhat lonely existence. Other than the 1 WP per day charm where you can suppress your size, what other alternatives to interacting with day to day matters do colossi have?

>>95858131
I think you're just stupid.

>>95858511
but this is exalted, not a tanith lee fanfiction game, you big dumb-dumb. ligier himself is not described as a rapist, pillager, or murderer in 1e, and is indeed a different character meant for a different kind of role than the kingly azhrarn.

>>95859003
>what other alternatives to interacting with day to day matters do colossi have?
If want to homebrew solutions for that you could copy the Lunar cloning charm or some astral projection stuff from VtM/Mage.

If we drop the Solar free excellencies to just their caste ability, do the Essence anima powers work in Ex3?

>>95859997
try it and see what happens

>>95840256
in 2nd ed's "the black and white treatise" for second ed, its specifically stated that there's no god of sorcery and no one knows why.

.....or was it in "oedanol's codex"?

in any case, i made up a reason why in my exalted hyrule campaign.

>>95845170
talking about that, does lookshy's religious body know celestial dragon styles? or is it realm immaculate only?

>>95859003
they dont have the smaller drone body launching charm anymore?

>>95857311
Anon, literally no one has said that Vaneha has a lot of DBs or GBs. You're just getting stuck on that because it's easier to argue against than what's actually being said. The convo started with a guy wondering how Vaneha intends to invade the Scavenger Lands - not the Great Forks, and the invasion plans are about the Hundred Kingdoms - but the part of that post that was questioned was specifically the assertion that Gensuji's the only Vanehan capable of wielding a daiklave. That's the thing being argued against.

>that is true in 1e as well, where Godblooded were even bigger powerhouses.
As I said, 1E had one God-Blooded for every few hundreds of mortals be the norm, with them being more common in places like the Great Forks and significantly less likely in the Realm. That was the kind of God-Blooded population that could be expected if nothing else was specifically stated. Those God-Blooded numbers were explicitly given in the Player's Guide.

>>95857602
I don't think the ruler of a nation is less significant than possible mercenaries he has, and I've no idea where you're getting that idea. It is, however, a simple fact nothing about Gensuji's or his daiklave's powers or their personal significance for Vaneha's military power is stated. He's significant because he's the ruler, and the Imperial Daiklave is mor significant than some other daiklave would be because it's the ruler's daiklave. It's as simple as that. He's probably a personal badass as well, because it'd be pretty lame if he wasn't, but that's not what his significance as described in Vaneha's writeup is based on.

>>95860763
>>95857602
>And yes, we are talking about a "notable" amount of them because we're talking about how Vaneha is able to stand a chance against Great Forks in conventional warfare.
No, we're not. This discussion is literally
>"Weird how Vaneha thinks it's hot shit when Gensuji is the only Vanehan capable of wielding a daiklave"
>"Well he's probably not literally the only one, Outcastes and God-Blooded are a thing and there are always mercenaries"
>"No it doesn't say anywhere that Vaneha has whole armies of Dragon-Blooded"
>"I didn't say it does, I just said that Gensuji's probably not literally the only one capable of wielding a daiklave"
>"No you said they have whole armies of Dragon-Blooded and God-Blooded and that's why they think they can take on the Great Forks"

I mean, we can talk about Vaneha vs. the Great Forks if you want to. It's probably make a better discussion than this. Nobody has argued for the existence of those significant amounts of God-Blooded and Dragon-Blooded you're talking about, however, so arguing against their existence is kind of pointless.

>You haven't read 3e which you admit
Are you genuinely hallucinating? I've read most of the every edition, I've certainly read Across the Eight Directions, and I sure as fuck haven't "admitted" not having read 3E.

>and you haven't read 1e either considering how batshit backwards your opinions are about things.
I've only referred to 1E in regards to God-Blooded numbers, and I referred to a specific book making a specific, explicit statement about how common GBs are. I can refer to the specific page, too, if that makes you feel better: Player's Guide, pg. 51.

>>95860684
I don't remember outright if it was the same in 1E and 2E, but in 3E, at least, Lookshy's Immaculate Faith and Prasad's Pure Way also know the Dragon Styles.

>>95859997
>If we drop the Solar free excellencies to just their caste ability, do the Essence anima powers work in Ex3?
No. A bunch of anima effects just don't work because the mechanics aren't there for them and almost all of the bonus dice/successes effects are out of wack for 3e. The free excellencies aren't the worst part, they're just an example of how and why the Essence anima powers don't translate directly.

>>95860763
>>95860817
>>"Well he's probably not literally the only one, Outcastes and God-Blooded are a thing and there are always mercenaries"
This is the really big sticking point that you don't really understand though. You're making pretty wild assumptions about the access Vaneha has to Essence wielders, something that is so negligible that it isn't discussed in the writeup, thus it is not a significant factor. You are for whatever reason deeply obsessed with the idea that they not only have access to these things in noteworthy quantities - again, context of the conversation, they DO have to be noteworthy - but willingness as well.

You're trying your hardest to motte and bailey this, but you're just wrong and you're wildly misrepresenting the setting by shifting your position from "well they didn't say they DON'T have lots of godblooded and outcastes to make up the difference" to "Outcastes could be from anywhere bro???".

I think you're just kind of retarded and the more you trying and coerce the fact that Godblooded Essence wielders are as common as you say the worse you come across.
in 1e, the distribution of them is very much clustered just like 3e and in 1e most Godblooded tended to have mote pools, the inverse of 3e.

>>95857934 Cleared this up in ways your retarded nobook ass could not and gave ACTUAL textual evidence to back it up, textual evidence relevant to Vaneha rather than a scattershot eyeballing of a statement from 1e with your incredibly loaded assumption that every Godblood would be on the hook for being in the military and having awakened Essence.

>>95859003
>tfw no giant colossi gf to tread on me so she can feel less lonely

>>95862264
You keep throwing in those words, "a lot", "significant quantities", that aren't part of the argument. Why? You're bizarrely stuck on what was originally just an off-hand note that it's unlikely that a nation the size of Vaneha has only one Essence-user. What's even more bizarre is that you keep pretending that off-hand note was actually some kind of a statement about the nature of Vaneha's military might. I'm going to assume that you originally misunderstood my point, which is fair, it happens, and after having your misunderstanding pointed out to you decided to double down on it out of sheer stubborness and argumentativeness, which is not fair and is all on you. But whatever, anon, I give up. Vanehan gods don't fuck mortals, Outcastes avoid Vaneha because of reasons and are never born there, and the ambitious Gensuji does whatever he can to gather military power except for hiring powerful mercenaries or trying to find powerful allies, which is something he absolutely won't do. You're very smart and this is definitely you winning the argument rather than just wearing me out with your bullshit.

>>95862409
>entire conversation is about the feasibility of Vaneha being able to take on Great Forks
>"well, Vaneha doesn't just have one guy who wields a daiklave, because he might have outcastes and godblooded"
>obvious assertion being this fills the gap with the obvious implication that this makes up for it.
>ask for source
>"uhm...just read the setting ya dip, i didn't imply he had a lot"
You again are bizarrely hung up on the fact you made a very poorly justified, unsubstantiated point and pivoted to the absurd assumption that a place needs to specifically rule out magical peoples rather than specifically rule them in, which is how the majority of 1e and 3e's setting worked and is explicitly how A8D was written.

You were just wrong about it dawg, it happens, and someone else actually provided a good source. Hell, I'll even throw you a bone and say that I noticed one of the Clan Leaders has an explicit hook that he might be buttering up the Grass Spiders, a group of Outcastes that are mercenaries.

So in some ways you WERE right, you just bumbled into it because you had no evidence beyond the absurd expectation that everywhere that doesn't explicitly say it doesn't have godblooded/outcastes relevant to the nation's society means they actually do.

>>95862442
No part of the conversation is about the feasibility of Vaneha trying to take on Great Forks. If you want to talk about that, then do so. Start a new discussion, and start it with something worth discussing. Don't try to gaslight me about what I've been talking about so far. You're not Getimian enough to pull it off.

>>95862467
nta but yeah it was you can scroll up. im surprised this conversation lasted so long talking about hidden outcaste mercs. >>95852430

>>95862479
That post was a reply to an anon simply pointing out that Vaneha most likely has other Essence-users than Gensuji without saying anything about the numbers or military significance of those Essence-users. The anon who pointed that out was me, and the reason I didn't say anything about the numbers or military significance of those Essence-users was because Imut wasn't relevant to my poinh. My point was, of course, and had been explained multiple times since, exactly what it appears to ve when taken at face value: that Gensuji's probably not the only one. That's all.

I'll say, though, that I've done some soul-searching to figure out why I've kept replying to this discussion. Part of it is obviously just that it's annoying to be misunderstood, and it's a lot more annoying when explanations don't help clear out the misunderstanding because the other party kerps insisting that he didn't misunderstand anything and that I was actually saying what he thought I was saying rather than what I thought I was saying all along. Beyond that, though, I have to admit that anon's attitude, "it's all mundane unless otherwise stated", upsets me. It genuinely isn't how the setting used to ve written, and it's not really how it's written now, either. It's a world where spirits are fairly common and interact with mortals (which, yes, does mean that God-Blooded are around), where Outcaste heroes roam the land and so on. It's a setting where when it's written at its best, the fantasyic and the mundane mingle and coexist seemlessly. The idea that the fantastic us absent unless otherwise stated is honestly kind of disgusting, and the claim that the setting was always like that is just shameless historical revisionism.

>>95862568
It isn't written like that in 2e, but in 1e that is indeed how the setting is written in the majority of the books, even the later ones. It's why those supernatural elements are so important usually, because they will alter how society operates. Even if those supernatural elements are subtle, they are very relevant to society. If everywhere is obviously steeped in magic, that makes Exalted as a setting less special, since magic is unevenly distributed...which is both a good and bad thing for your average Joe.

It just so happens that most places in 1e do have those supernatural elements which are pointed out - because they're also the MOST interesting places to go-, but there's places where that stuff isn't mentioned and like...you have to take that at face value. Manacle and Coin is another good example of talking about where and most importantly WHEN magic intersects with real world occurrences. It's meant to be miraculous that The Guild can call upon Gods to directly bless caravans. It's meant to be genius that The Guild uses mundane solutions of plugging up a river to get one over on a God.

Everyone has their own different take of Exalted, and everyone additionally adjusts their own takes for their own tables. If someone is doing a Vaneha vs some shitter town campaign and you're all Solars, you bet your ass Vaneha is going to scale up to take them on. That makes it difficult to talk setting material in a raw, unprocessed way.

>>95860684

>>95860853 has it for 3e. In 1e and 2e, however, only the Realm had the Immaculate Dragon Styles (barring rare breakaway or renegade masters, of course).

>>95862568
>I have to admit that anon's attitude, "it's all mundane unless otherwise stated", upsets me.
It is 3e, they removed thaumaturgy as a common thing.

>>95863087
True, true. There's a lot about 3E that I like, but changing thaumaturgy the way they did was a dirty move.

>>95863189
Changing thaumaturgy is imo the biggest hurdle stopping 3e from beating the mudcore allegations. It doesn't help that the LORE for some of the societies in 3e seems to like fluffing...generalised supernatural phenomena like prehuman races that can swap body parts freely (yours and theirs), talking wolves, people who reproduce by having 9 daddies spitting into a bucket, and entire societies of sorcerers. But for some ineffable arbitrary reason thaumaturgy, the system designed for systemised generally utility-based supernatural capacity for otherwise mundane societies is shunned for no good reason.

>>95859774
Oh if we're stooping to this level of nitpicking I can bring up 2e Ebby as a PERFECT Tanith Lee reference, in any case my point is that the 3e writers are bad at writing anything worth giving a shit about.

It's kind of depressing that we've reached the point of Exalted where people seem to be arguing about minute details even less significant to the average game of Exalted than motonic physics or the Yozis, just to awkwardly talk around the fact that 3e isn't very good.

>>95862568
>I have to admit that anon's attitude, "it's all mundane unless otherwise stated", upsets me. It genuinely isn't how the setting used to ve written, and it's not really how it's written now, either.
In fairness outside thaumaturgy and spirits it was usually assumed to be mundane unless something exceptional was otherwise. God-blooded with non-trivial powers were exceptional and unusual, not common and widespread. Even when it does come to spirits, their intervention in ways other than minor dice bonus type blessings or curses that amount to natural disasters were also very rare. I guess you could also call fate and destiny commonplace supernatural effects but they aren't... well, they weren't really something you saw, as such.

With 3e cutting thaumaturgy way the hell back and spirits also reduced drastically in terms of how common they are and how low down their hierarchy goes, it would be a fairly reasonable take to say that 3e's world is not one where magic can be assumed to exist in spaces where it is not mentioned if we still had the same design quality as 1e/2e. I actually agree with you that there will be outcastes and godblooded everywhere in 3e though, purely because their design standards are dogwater and they've decided to focus on avoiding potential plot holes by fudging numbers and smudging around data so that anything can be anywhere, regardless of what the write-up focusses on or talks about.

Because 3e is poorly written, it's entirely possible to assert Sword Prince Gensuji has a wife called Invincible Sword Princess who just so happens to be a Melee Supernal Solar and the real reason they're a power in the Scavenger Lands is because of her ability to slaughter any opposition, with the Imperial Sword serving as little more than a convenient right to rule. I would not be able to refute this assertion as 'not aligned with canon', or with 'they would have mentioned it because that's some damn important info', only as 'not explicitly canon'.

>>95863224
>it would be a fairly reasonable take to say that 3e's world is not one where magic can be assumed to exist in spaces where it is not mentioned if we still had the same design quality as 1e/2e.
As much as I despise 3e, I'm not sure if this is technically accurate. Again, bringing up the wolf civ aside 3e does go out of it's way to bring up Raksha invasions, displaced pantheons, relatively accessible initiations of sorcery themed around paying homage to the Underworld's rivers and stuff like the Dreaming Sea.

I would argue that magic IS relatively accessible...just in a much more random, arbitrary form that we wouldn't recognise as thaumaturgy that is as much because of the greater relevance/prevalence of some non-Yu-Shan spirits as random tribes having access to bullshit like the Starstone or the cum queen Incarna corpse bath

>>95863215
Teenager/younger me thought he was a reference to Ariman and the self defeating nature of evil found in older literature.
The latter was also one of the reasons for why I thought exalted was a weird duck among WW's games.

>>95863281
In hindsight I increasingly ended up withdrawing credit I gave Exalted for things I thought were cool references like the Deathlords clearly being a Requiem Chevalier Vampire take on the Forsaken due to, well, an increasing awareness of frequent writer cowardice about actually doing anything interesting with them in 3e.

The 3e Deathlords are ridiculously neutered.

>>95863210
Yeah. What frustrates me the most about that is that lorewise there's some pretty neat-sounding supernatural stuff, like Gentian's Intou monks using bone flutes and talismans to summon and control dead monks' hungry ghosts, or Ember's magic twins, but you just know that none of that stuff will ever be mechanically detailed. If there was a universal framework for that kind of relatively minor. mortal-accessible magic, it wouldn't be a big deal to explain just how Intou monks fit into that framework.

>>95863260
>Again, bringing up the wolf civ aside 3e does go out of it's way to bring up Raksha invasions, displaced pantheons, relatively accessible initiations of sorcery themed around paying homage to the Underworld's rivers and stuff like the Dreaming Sea.
Yes, this is the sort of thing I'm referring to with the 'smudged around data' and 'fudging numbers', where they throw jank at random so that you can justify supernatural stuff happening anywhere. It's stuff that wouldn't be happening in this way at all if the setting was being better designed (at the moment). The things that used to make magic commonplace before have now been cut out, so there's no way you can see any kind of consistent magic in the setting. They could have replaced that with ad-hoc stuff in theory - old workings, outcaste pantheons, unique demesnes, and random supernatural jank in general can show up anywhere, after all - but they have also gone out of their way to describe every instance they've made canon as strictly localized and never repeated.

Basically, how magical the world is is left up to the Storyteller, because the way it's magical is 'everything is exceptional', with near zero consistent effects and everything being a one-off. Magic is common if the Storyteller can be arsed to fill in the gaps with unique one-off effects, and it's not very magical if they can't. This isn't helped by developer commentary outside the game tending towards it being very non-magical with them saying things like 'dragonblood sorcerers outnumber mortal sorcerers' and 'workings aren't common as reflected by xp cost' and almost everything they've said about thaumaturgy.

Besides the fact that the Lunars were effectively an afterthought, why wasn't the Silver Faction an actual thing?

>>95864311
Account to some sources, originally Lunars were participants of the Usurpation, but had a falling out with Sidereals.

This would explain a lot of things, like giving a concrete reason for "solars vs lunars" plots outside of "Lunars are fair weather friends".

>>95864518
That's the version that has them sick of the Lunar-Taming Leash bullshit and deciding banishment into the Wyld is still better than their lives under the Solar government

>>95864518
>Account to some sources, originally Lunars were participants of the Usurpation, but had a falling out with Sidereals.

That is part of the point tho, I don't think we got a solid reason why they avoid one another both as Elders and newer ones.

>>95864936
Too many in one place and the Empress nukes them. IIRC that's why they've now been able to take the Caul, because she's no longer there to do it

>>95864936
Sidereals and Lunars? Or just Lunars themselves?
It is because of earlier version of the lore, that were never adjusted.

Exalted is a mosaic, whose parts don't fit each other, but instead of ironing the setting, the devs added new parts that also don't interact with the whole.

For example, Instead of reworking the relationship between Lunars/Sidereals, they introduced Getimians.

>>95864975
I'm pretty sure moots and similar gatherings were still a thing during her reign, did I missed something?
>>95865082
>Sidereals and Lunars? Or just Lunars themselves?
I was talking about both and how they don't interact, despite it making a lot of sense for them to be one of the main options. They know what it is like to be under an asshole king, so they would be a lot more receptive to a constitutional monarchy structure or something along those lines.

>>95863220
The dual editions don't really give people a reason to talk about mechanics, and the new additions are just mediocre enough they aren't fun to break down.

>>95837744
On a broather note, are all Yozis also locations in their own right? if so how do they interact with the world?

>>95866758
I still find it frustrating how 3e just lazily removes aspects of both the setting and gameplay (NPC statblocks losing so much detail instead of, god forbid, actually coming up with a better but still coherent system and asking you to make up powers based on a nonexistent equivalent to Games of Divinity's comprehensive set of spirit powers 3e has yet to release because fucking regional recipes are apparently a higher priority) then tries to tell you this is a good thing.

>>95867441
>NPC statblocks losing so much detail instead of, god forbid, actually coming up with a better but still coherent system
Maybe if they had a way to present the charm tree bullshit they would have some fucking space to add more relevant info.
Pic related is the shitiest way to organize something like this but it is still better than a wall text.

>>95867559

>>95867566
Doesn't Solar craft have more charms than the alphabet has letters?

>>95867589
Then you either cut down the number of charms on each skill or start again with something along the lines of "A-Z, A1-Z1, A2-Z2"
>>95867441
>nonexistent equivalent to Games of Divinity's comprehensive set of spirit powers 3e has yet to release because fucking regional recipes are apparently a higher priority) then tries to tell you this is a good thing.
I don't know what they are smoking up there and I am not sure if they expect people to just translate shit on their own.

>>95867621
>I don't know what they are smoking up there and I am not sure if they expect people to just translate shit on their own.
After seeing how they acknowledge Metropoli as canon for Alchemicals' lifespan, simultaneously contradicting their assertion Exalts cannot increase in power after E5 while also providing NO fucking guidance on how that is supposed to work mechanically AND effectively giving Alchemicals a default form of immortality, I really think it took years and years for the 3e team to realise basically every new idea they had for the game was retarded and to try to low key walk it all back.

In 10 years I expect Exalted 4e to promise an Elder Essence Charm book on Kickstarter.

How many artefact dots would a snowglobe that opens to a pocket sanctum?

>>95867679
>simultaneously contradicting their assertion Exalts cannot increase in power after E5
where is this assertion made

>>95867441
>NPC statblocks losing so much detail instead
I cannot fucking believe there's people complaining we don't have 1e / 2e retard tier massive statblocks. I also cannot believe people think statblocks lack detail, adversaries has like 3 pages per creature

>>95866768
>On a broather note, are all Yozis also locations in their own right?
No. The Ebon Dragon has only one body explicitly, Adorjan's deadly silent wind-body isn't really a location so much as a natural disaster, and She Who Lives in Her Name doesn't have a world/location-body either. The closest would be her spheres, but that's more like an artifact collection.

>>95868100
As a base effect, I'd put it at four. We have the following as an example of a three dot artifact:
>A staff that places objects (not people) it strikes Elsewhere, and can call them back just as quickly
and as a four dot artifact
>cache egg 4 dot: a container for up to 10 cubic yards of space that can be banished Elsewhere
The snowglobe is similar to the cache egg, but with the upsides that the other side is somewhere you can go (and larger), but the downsides that other people can get into and out of it with sanctum-entering spells/effects which are typically low level, and possibly that if you hide in there and someone else picks up the snowglobe they could shake it to annoy you with earthquakes, snow, and altered gravity.

>>95868662
It's more than fair to say they're locations that move, since they're so big. Ebon Dragon is actually the smallest Yozi described at being 50 miles long. Adjoran doesn't need to have physical phenomena to be sort of a location too, since she's basically like the winds of Jupiter but quiet.

>>95869076
>It's more than fair to say they're locations that move, since they're so big. Ebon Dragon is actually the smallest Yozi described at being 50 miles long. Adjoran doesn't need to have physical phenomena to be sort of a location too, since she's basically like the winds of Jupiter but quiet.
You're twisting words to try to make them fit your definitions and headcanon rather than looking at what's actually there. The Ebon Dragon has one body and it's a dragon that can be fifty miles long or five foot nothing. That's not a location, it's just a shapeshifter. The winds of jupiter are simply not relevant to Exalted. Might as well call the Unconquered Sun a location because he can become a giant dragon or pillar of light, or Kukla a location because he's even bigger than big ED.

>>95869100
Unconquered Sun being a sun and that sun being a location is fair to say, pre Glories where it was made a distinct artifact location.

Describing Primordials as locations is completely fair. They are grand, all encompassing and most of the time they operate as locations. Things live and dwell inside Ebon Dragon even though he is 'relatively' small. Unshaped are also locations, even though they can move, because that's sort of their deal. By defining things so rigidly, you're basically disqualifying the idea of moving settlements as locations, like the Denzik city-ship. Weather phenomena are also locations. Back to Jupiter, that big red spot? That is a constant storm that moves across the planet, has no solid ground and is still a location.

>>95869177
>Back to Jupiter, that big red spot? That is a constant storm that moves across the planet, has no solid ground and is still a location.
Your forehead is also a location. Are you a location?

This is what I mean by twisting words. You're just making anything fit the definition you want it to.

What was the point of 2e's Maiden keyword when only three charms used it? Am I missing half the Sidereal charmset or something?

>>95869221
Yeah, your forehead is a location. many things are locations big and small. it's just about connotations of saying location. If I didn't know what a forehead is, I might ask where it's located, and you could describe it to me, but it'd be uncommon to call something like that a location.

Your asshole, which is visited by many men, could be described as a location, though again not many people would refer to it in that manner even though it's correct.

If you were the size of a building, or the size of a planet, then you start to see what the term 'location' is doing. As an Exalted, you could walk into Adjoran and be utterly immersed in them from horizon to horizon. Is that not a location? You could do the same thing to an Unshaped, the same thing to the Ebon Dragon, and depending which book you're reading, a massive guy like the Kukla probably is multiple locations. He's certainly bigger than multiple locations, but you could fight him like a creature. Adjoran and Kimbery and Cecelyne are less straightforward.

All that is to say that your gatekeeping of the word location is unhelpful. The correction you should have strove for is to clarify that they're not just locations, they are entities and locations. I hope this helped.

>>95869254
Sidereals 2e was literally made by retards and most of the charms in there did not function, but it wasn't totally copy pasted. Maiden was just there to try and cut word count from 1e where the sentence "This charm requires approval from the Maidens and monitored" existed in 1e.

Sidereals aren't strangers to having pointless keywords. Divination in 3e is seemingly only relevant for the Awareness tree, but a full three quarters of its charms don't seem to operate in the way that the Divination keyword is even meant to restrict.

>>95869254
Oh and another thing I noticed while I'm rereading the 2e books: Wise Choice, the charm that was canonically used in the Grand Convocation to scout out the future of the next Age, doesn't have the Fate keyword and it was never errata'd in. This means that gretching about how the Sidereals shouldn't have gone forward with the Usurpation because there could be unknown threats from Outside Fate (which they couldn't predict coming) can actually be thrown out the window, because the Sidereals could actually predict the Great Contagion and Balorian Crusade bringing the Age to a close at that time (though they maybe couldn't predict past that into the Empress' reign at the time, since the Realm Defense Grid going off marked the end of the First Age by the metrics of most scholars in-character, so that might have been as far as their prognostication reached).

Off-topic but this happened after somehow gathering all hundred Sidereals to do so? Apparently there were no ronin and Sidereals didn't die enough in the first age to have any in need of reincarnation, and every Sidereal knew the charm. Feels like it was a bit of a throwaway line they didn't really think about, but what do I know.

>>95869308
>Maiden was just there to try and cut word count from 1e where the sentence "This charm requires approval from the Maidens and monitored" existed in 1e.
But there are still charms without the Maiden keyword which have those clauses anyway, like Auspicious Prospects of (Caste).

>>95869328
Emphasis on try, I'd wager. I'll run some defense though on the Convocation. The way the GC operated in 1e, and I'm pretty sure 2e as well, for Sidereals is that they made bad decisions when it was done collectively. So every Sidereal doing Wise Choice while gathered together...made a very bad decision.

The Fate keyword is quite strange as an addition. In 1e, it was the Loom specifically that could not divine the futures of Outsiders. Sidereals had restrictions on controlling or compelling the actions of Outsiders, but their native charmset had no restrictions on predicting Outsiders. 2e changed that with the Fate keyword and made Sidereals overall less powerful. Divination is divergent from 1e in that it places more emphasis on compelling/controlling the actions of Outsiders(enemies of fate) and restricts predictions...most of the time.

>>95865290
>I was talking about both and how they don't interact, despite it making a lot of sense for them to be one of the main options.
Like I said, exalted is a mosaic, and instead of fixing the gaps, they introduced new ones.

>>95869100
Isn't Jacint a tower?

>>95870094
>Isn't Jacint a tower?
Yes, many demons and Yozi have topological bodies. My point was that having a world-body or building form is not a defining feature of Yozi, since some of them don't have them.

>>95869076
Yes, Jupiter is both a giant storm and a location.

>>95870224
The primordials are like the overmind from Star Craft and the Reapers from Mass Effects.

When people say that they are locations, they are just being reductive/laconic, adorjan and Hegra are climates.

>>95868222
3e core. Charms are supposed to be limited in power from E5 onwards, this is directly contradicted by BUILDING SIZED CHARMS described for Metropoli.

>>95868483
Please reread what I actually wrote. 1e/2e retard tier massive statblocks were flawed. SO ARE 3e "literally nothing" statblocks. They both fucking suck, and I want something better instead of a literally invincible blob of words or a scant description that lists things like "swing axe really hard" as a Charm alongside way, way too little to meaningfully engage with any competently built Exalt.

>>95866768
I have no idea why the other anon is being so weirdly spiteful about the concept, but yes the Yozis are explicitly all living universes as well as entities. And the answer to how they interact with the world is that sometimes they have bodies of different scope for doing it, and sometimes they simply use their powers to warp existence into conformity with the default terms of their existence. Adorjan for example can turn into a creepy woman to chase people she's interested in; the woman and the wind are at once Adorjan. Malfeas is simultaneously the Brass Dancer and the tormented city-prison holding all the Yozis prisoner. Kimbery's true form is deeper than the merely Creation-sized seas she spreads across Malfeas, and Isidoros' boar form is explicitly a mere shadow of his actual no-bullshit dark universe body. Manual: Infernals explicitly states all the Yozis have humanform joutens they can address Infernals through.

>>95868662
>The Ebon Dragon has only one body explicit
The Ebon Dragon also does weird, space-time breaking things like keep the Ten Shadows Academy under the darkness cast by that form, wherever it flies. Keep in mind that the Ebon Dragon is also the literal Shadow of All Things (that he can copy with Black Mirror Shintai, at least) and that the location-portion of a Yozi is not always apparent. Elloge holds an entire multidimensional lattice of correspondences within her sphere-shape, for example.

>>95870324
>the location-portion of a Yozi is not always apparent
I love that you're making shit up and asserting it as canon, promise.

>The Ebon Dragon also does weird, space-time breaking things like keep the Ten Shadows Academy under the darkness cast by that form, wherever it flies.
Simply inaccurate. The Ten Shadows Academy is in a single place, obscured by magic. When the Ebon Dragon flies overhead the obscuration goes down and people can find it more easily. They can still find it without venturing into the Ebon Dragon's shadow.

>Keep in mind that the Ebon Dragon is also the literal Shadow of All Things
Don't use literal if you don't mean literal. He's not all thing's shadows in any way but metaphorical. He's a big flying black dragon that exudes black fog.

>Elloge holds an entire multidimensional lattice of correspondences within her sphere-shape, for example.
So, a library.

>yes the Yozis are explicitly all living universes as well as entities
That doesn't necessarily mean what you are implying it means. Humans are also described as living universes. I don't know where you're pulling your quote from but I'd bet it's referring to them in a way that either doesn't encompass all Yozi or is being used to emphasize and approximate their power rather than as literally descriptive text.

Overall I'm pretty sure you're just drunk on 2e's hype and extrapolating what is there into more broad rules that are not there.

>>95870648
nta but games of divinity is where the idea that yozis are world unto themselves come from because of how it describes the scope and scale of all the yozi. feel free be mad and say that the corebook's single sentence or two about them is more descriptive.

>>95870671
Even before games of divinity, we had Autochthon in Times of Tumult

>>95870648
>>95870671
A new anon jumping into the discussion, with a question: what is this argument even about at this point? GoD says that all the Yozis are vast entities but not that they're all locations, but I'm not sure about how relevant that is because I've no idea what the actual substance of this argument is supposed to be. Is it purely about semantics, ie. how the word 'location' should be defined, or about how big Yozis are, or about something else?

>>95870805
one guy arguing about semantics and his inability to comprehend metaphors

>>95870805
it's as >>95870891 says pretty much. >>95869279 is about where the conversation should have ended but it seems like some guy is really attached to arguing about it.

>>95870933
Yes, the planet Jupiter is basically a giant cloud/storm, but it is also a location.

>>95870958
This does not clarify things at all, and is also not true.

>>95870933
>but it seems like some guy is really attached to arguing about it.
This, though, clarifies things enough for me to stop trying to make further sense of this.

>>95870979
The gaseous giants aren't locations?

>>95870998
They're not basically giant clouds and/or storms.

>>95870979
it's pretty obvious you were the guy that was losing the debate and are now trying to samefag.

>>95871010
Is this a location?

>>95871020
Do I care? Should I care? I just said that Jupiter is neither a cloud nor a storm. Why are you trying to draw me into arguing about the semantics of the word 'location'?

>>95871031
This is a very strange response to a very simple question. It's very strange how you're never going to answer it too.

>Are you going to argue the semantics with me?
>Anyway Jupiter isn't basically just a big storm it has a core that's made up of many heavy elements and unique compounds created by its high pressure environment-
>I don't actually care to argue that question about the Great Red Spot, this isn't the science board!

guy got fucking cooked, carry on with your day everyone

>>95871080
The question was a complete non sequitur, and it was very strange that you asked it in the first place. But sure, the Great Red Spot is a location. It's not the entirety of Jupiter, and it has essentially nothing to do with the idea that Jupiter is "basically a giant cloud/storm" - you know, the claim I argued against? Was there some point to this strange semantic tangent, anon?

>>95871187
I understand that keeping a track of different posters is difficult on an anonymous board, but I asked just what the fuck the ongoing argument is even about, got a weird response about Jupiter being a cloud - yes, I read the previous discussion and I know how the statement fits into that, but it was still a weird answer to my question, and also factually incorrect. I pointed out that it was factually incorrect, I got an even weirder response about the Great Red Spot that was pretty straightforwardly irrelevant to anything I'd said, and now we're here. Is everything clear now?

>>95871265
You actually did get totally fucking cooked while samefagging, but I don't mind now that you copped after managing to wrangle a very small victory by some other poster making a broadly correct-in-context statement about Jupiter and the places within it being locations despite not all of it being the core. Feel free to pretend to be flabbergasted about the conversation you were participating in and losing I guess though.

>>95871289
I guess there's no way to prove accusations of samefagging wrong when we're all anonymous, though this kind of bullshit makes posting here pretty tiresome sometimes.

I have this concept for a demon, and I am not sure if this is too out there for a first circle. Their main gimmick is animating a statue and giving it the ability multiply itself by eating similar things.

For example, if the summoner used a ruby crab statue as the ritual anchor/vessel, it would animate the statue once it ate enough crabs of rubies it would split itself into two identical golems.

The idea is that there are a bunch of things like that in a buried factory cathedral. They become a problem by escaping their containment and start a famine by eating the local animals.

>>95871401
That sounds fine to me. I wouldn't worry too much about something being conceptually too out there for a 1CD, I'd just focus on keeping the actual powerlevel appropriate for one.

>>95871418
Yeah, individually they are pretty weak but they are everywhere by the point the PCs reach them.

>>95871537
Sounds alright to me, then. I think there's room for all kinds of weirdness among First Circle demons.

>>95870278
>3e core. Charms are supposed to be limited in power from E5 onwards, this is directly contradicted by BUILDING SIZED CHARMS described for Metropoli.
I'm not sure this is beyond the power of equivalent Essence 5 charms; the ones that initiate someone into the final tier of sorcery/necromancy, the Abyssal charm in Survival that lets one blight an entire land feature, the Sidereal Dodge charm that lets you move entire cities around, the capstone effects of five-dot artifacts, and so on are examples of effects that are as permanent and large in scale as a metropoli's building-sized charms.

>>95870278
>>95871826
Furthering that, I don't even feel like Alchemical's unique scaling is a contradiction. Alchemical's scale into cities and get unique scope, but they aren't able to pop Solar Sorcery or other crazy shit. It's more able breadth than depth from what I can tell.

>>95872268
>It's more able breadth than depth from what I can tell.
Communists build buildings with enormous footprints rather than height because they were more imposing, e.g. all of Ceausescu's bullshit in Romania. Colossi are the same way so their powers match that idea; never the pinnacle but massively broad.

>>95872308
how powerful were colossi in each edition?

>>95872338
Based on KoC, they are basically mega-churches

>>95872338
They varied according to how powerful warstriders were, mostly.

>>95873509
>They varied according to how powerful warstriders were, mostly.
Is there an edition other than Essence where warstriders don't suck?

>>95875463
I don't think so, most WW games have shit vehicle rules.

What's the last thing you watched/read and how could you use that in an Exalted game?

>>95877590
The night land by William Hope.

It is the underworld map now, and the forces of oblivion cannot enter stygia/redoubt, with the exception of Abyssals.

>>95877590
>read
First book of the Second Apocalypse series by R. Scott Bakker. Kellhus might be a pretty good example of what Solar social Charms used subtly but constantly and with no moral restraint look like, now that I think about it.

>watched
I re-watched Sin City for the first time in a decade or so last night. It's a bit too modern to serve as direct inspiration for Exalted, though obviously all the main characters are essentially superhuman and pull of plenty of the kinds of stunts one might expect to see in an ExWoD game or something. If I was dead set on using something from Sin City in Exalted, I guess I'd throw in Marv as maybe a Solar, maybe an Abyssal, with his unspecified mental condition maybe being him freaking out about a particularly nasty Limit Break he had in the past or something like that.

>>95877606
It sounds like an Abyssal win scenario where they got all of the Solar Exaltations.

>>95877750
It is more of a "the labyrinth spreads out" scenerio.

>>95877912
Maybe I got the wrong impression from the summary.

>>95877933
Oh, I meant to use it as a basis for the underworld's topography.

But the setting is like if the Neverborn fused themselves with Creation, with the remains of humanity living in the imperial manse.

>>95878002
The divine revolt went really badly in this time.

>>95837260 (OP)
Why DO Lunars have Tells?

>>95878143
>Why DO Lunars have Tells?
Because the writers didn't wanted them too good at social infiltration and the werewolf tell was a thing they felt the need too add.

>>95878143
it was thematic

>>95878640
Kinda, sure some shape shifting creature have a signature they can't shake off regardless of form but the excursion was piss poor.
Which is weird given Wraith already solved that particular puzzle by playing it straight with their Moliate limitation.
Sometimes I really don't get White Wolf's bullshit.

>one retard writer thought "When you play Exalted you are, in fact, trained to read Marx." was a post written in sincerity rather than a reworded meme and is dunking on it

What other conversations do you think the writers lurk and see here?

>>95879246
are you mad that they're making fun of the post for being intentionally dumb or what

>>95879137
White Wolfism, everything is a statement against something, including "writing having structure" and things they themselves wrote.

And like Epimetheus from Greek mythology, they don't really think things through.

So imagine a mosaic of spurs, and you will get their writing

>>95878143
Because all of Odin's alternate forms also had one eye, and it was a point of dramatic irony that people would be rude to a one-eyed traveler who just arrived in town but the audience knew that homeboy just fucked up in the worst way.

(Can't find the exact quote by Grabowski at the moment, since rpg.net is down.)

>>95879246
Could use screencap it? It was a long since somebody posted that pasta.

>What other conversations do you think the writers lurk and see here?
I am pretty sure Holden used the Lunar pasta as a basis of his Heart-Eater's lore, and some paragraphs his fanbooks, were addressing some shitposting.

>>95879341
I'm mostly annoyed at the fact that every other bank execution is either pointless or has been resolved in another of their books.
This just feels really sloppy despite being a professional product, I know I'm expecting too much from people like this.

>>95878185
>Werewolf Tell

W:tA didn't have those unless you wanted your character to have something of that nature (overt physical deformity or the Sign of the Wolf flaw).

>>95879419
They are trying too hard to be iconoclastic.

For example: out of hatred for D&D, oiginally, instead of dots, WW's games were going to use words (bad, avarage, good, etc...) to describe a character proficiency.

>>95879433
They are trying too hard to be iconoclastic.

For example: out of hatred for D&D, oiginally, instead of dots, WW's games were going to use words (bad, avarage, good, etc...) to describe a character proficiency, the dots were a compromise.

>>95879592
Sounds about right.

>>95879329
weirdly defensive

>>95879483
I'm talking about the folklore.

>>95879697
I think a 3e writer lurks here, by the wording when they defended At8D northwest, but it could have been just a case of weird wording.

>>95880270
Nah, people just have shit taste in some regards.
I am one of the writers keep that shit down, we need this idea mine

>>95853481
Sorcerers are literally just Zorayas from Night's Master. Exalted cribs as hard from Tanith Lee as D&D did from LOTR and Conan

>>95880592
>D&D did from LOTR
The sorcerers from D&D are from Jack Vance.
Tolkien's influence is barely skin deep, even the elves have heavy Moorcockian DNA in them.

>>95877590
Just started this audiobook, John reads like a Night Cast but everything else feels like a hellish world body.

>>95880608
Yeah but most people picture Tolkien even if it there is very little that echos his style and universe.

>>95880608
Yeah, but it's aesthetically pulling heavily from Tolkien. Wizards in robes and hats, elves, hobbits etc

Don't be obtuse, you know what I meant, there are balrogs in DND

>>95880674
And halflings were called hobbit for a while before the lawers were involved.

>>95880674
>Wizards in robes and hats,
This is older than Tolkien.

>Hobbits/Halflings.
Nobody really cares for them, normally, they are replaced by gnomes.

>>95880699
>they are replaced by gnomes.
Who people don't give a shit about either.

>>95880714
Ironically enough, the popular short race currently are the goblins, who act like Tolkien's orcs.

>>95880699
Look I'm not an appendix N expert, the point is that Tales from Flat Earth impacted Exalted as much as any of DnD's influenced impacted it.

Again, like half the core book sorcery spells are just "some shit Zorayas did once"

>>95880592
Zorayas is a pretty obvious inspiration, at the very least, as are Tanith Lee's demons for Exalted's demons, and just the overall tone and style of her writing for the tone and style 1E's going for.

>>95880699
>normally, they are replaced by gnomes.
This seems like a highly dubious claim. What are you basing it on?

>>95880723
Because that's the closest to a generic chaotic sex pest they can get in most cases

>>95880732
>This seems like a highly dubious claim. What are you basing it on?
Jrpgs, and western media in general.

Sometimes elves are portrayed as gnome-esque

>>95880751
JRPGs aren't the first thing I'd look to when discussing Tolkien influences or lack thereof in DnD. DnD-related Western media in general presumably includes actual DnD, which has halflings, official DnD settings, which generally have halflings, DnD-derivatives like Pathfinder, which has halflings, DnD tie-in novels, where one notable example of a halfling charatcer would be Regis, and so on.

>>95880778
>JRPGs aren't the first thing I'd look to when discussing Tolkien influences or lack thereof in DnD
Jrpgs are directly successors from D&D, see bahamuth being a dragon god, the original final fantasy classes, Dragon's Quest's bestiary, etc...

Pig orcs and dog kobolds came to be because of AD&D's translation errors.

>>95880796
A decent chunk of what makes JRPGs what they are is the whole "Let's do the same but legally distinct"

>>95880796
The question of what JRPGs take from DnD and what they change or discard is separate from what DnD takes from Tolkien, anon.

>>95880856
>The question of what JRPGs take from DnD and what they change or discard is separate from what DnD takes from Tolkien, anon.
True, but what does D&D takes from tolkien?

>>95880888
Hobbits/halfling, ents/treants, plenty of extremely obvious inspiration in how dwarves are presented, elves that, while not the same as Tolkien's, obviously get more from Tolkien than directly from folklore or mythology, balrogs. A fair few things, anon.

>>95880853
The mindflayers were a copy-paste.
But ironically enough, the ur-elf of jrpgs is a human, despite her game also featuring standard long lived magical elves.

>>95880924
>plenty of extremely obvious inspiration in how dwarves are presented
Dwarves are all the same, snow white was released in the same year as the hobbit.

>>95880968

Snow White dwarves are super different from DND/Tolkien dwarves. They're silly little guys who live above ground and work in a mine and sing all day. Some of them are grumpy dicks and some of them are super nice or sleepy or whatever.

DND and Tolkien dwarves are miners but they're also craftsmen and proud warrior guys and maybe drunkards and they're all kind of gruff arrogant dicks who think outsiders are soft.

You fucking with everyone?

>>95880924
Yeah, it does take a lot from it even if the parts that make D&D what it is come from other authors. I keep forgetting what Tolkien achieved in terms of influence, his stuff just fades into the background in a weird way.
But circling back to Exalted and stuff people don't really give a shit about, do you think the mountain folk are/were a worthwhile addition to the game?

Honestly, I really hate them. I expected something more alien when I heard about the first children of Auto but all I got was a recycled and poorly fitted piece.

>>95880993
Just pointing out the idea of dwarves already existed in the popular imaginary.

>SW dwarves are different because each one has a different personality.
This isn't a good point.

>>95881006
Mountain Folk are conceptually cool as fuck. Their lifecycle, castes, war against the Darkbroods and crafting skills are all good stuff. They were just presented as a bit too much as literally just dwarves at some points. I agree that they should've been more alien than they were ultimately written as.

>>95881006
Weren't they added at the request of a writer? Who them bragged about it?

>mountain folk.
They are a nice piece of world building, but my table never got to use them.

>Alien.
They are "crystallized" raksha, because of this they share the elf aesthetics.

>>95881029
>>95881035
Most of their lore is good, I just hate the default dwarf skin and will change it at every chance I get. I would even roll with some shit like this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mvLxx36XTg

>>95871826
I strongly disagree because having every fucking Charm be the size of a building > having some E5 Charms be literally nothing except for a free Excellency use, OR being able to affect land features on a temporary scale. Also using sorcery/necromancy is cheating, that is specifically an entirely different system.

>>95872268
>but they aren't able to pop Solar Sorcery or other crazy shit.
The upper bounds of Solar Sorcery are so poorly defined that I'm genuinely not sure it's the superior option, just because the 3e core team are cowards who are unable to actually define what a "unique powerful entity" or a subtle alteration to the cosmos actually counts as.

Of all the examples you listed I would say the Sid Dodge Charm is the best rebuttal to my endless well of spite at 3e, and to that I would say it's still a specific phenomena dependent on a preexisting target rather than a permanent fixture that takes a basic ability and upgrades it into a problem for a fucking battlefield.

>>95877590
I'm going to say the Thunderbolt Fantasy movie because the actual last thing I watched was a documentary about Boatmurdered. And I can't use it because it's too cool to be represented in Exalted as it currently is.

>>95877590
>Watched
Digimon Adventures. Is this the part where I bait out the isekai anon?

>Read
The Slow Regard of Silent Things. Honestly, I could set that whole series in Exalted pretty easily, but this specific book I think I'd translate into having more of an emphasis on the little people and spirits out of sight. Little shrines and soap-making pans in forgotten corners, that sort of thing. That and the idea of advanced technology being approximated rather than understood, with the way the pipes are run like they're trapped corridors.

>>95881439
The immense size and physical presence of the metropoli charms is, in some ways, a downside. Their range and power is very good, being comparable to the once-per-story effects Celestials get or higher level workings, but they are uniquely vulnerable to sabotage or unforeseen circumstances (labor shortages, sabotage, etc.). They are also immobile and their charm effects are usually limited to the boundaries of their city, and they need the younger Alchemicals to deal with things on a finer scale. I really can't see the argument that they've somehow transcended the power of every other Exalt.

Anyway, "endless well of spite"? That's rather melodramatic. Try not to sound like a theater kid when you're mad at something.

>>95881575
>That's rather melodramatic
I feel melodrama is a reasonable response to an edition that has outlasted the combined lifespan of the previous two while being worse than both. Anyway, this argument isn't going to convince either of us so let me just say this: Legendary Size is consistently portrayed as a big fucking deal in even Celestial Exalt Charms in 3e, and Metropoli get perpetual greater-than-Legendary Size activated for them consistently.

Also your mother was a gerbil, your father smelled of elderberries, and I'm sick of being told 3e isn't dogshit against the evidence of my own eyes.

>uniquely vulnerable to sabotage or unforeseen circumstances
Meanwhile regular sized Exalts are uniquely vulnerable to poison, crippling and sickness effects. I would argue those are worse than labor shortages or sabotage or the immobility issues.

>>95880270
What were people's problems with the northwest?

for what it's worth, I think Silverswept Plains is interesting, and some of the micro gazettes have a lot of great ideas. Aiun's location is also pretty interesting, though I really wish they didn't go with the Spiral as an aesthetic because it just feels too Junji Ito. Apparently the guy who wrote it was thinking more along the lines of Werewolf but...YMMV on how convincing that is.

>>95881897
I don't know what other people's problems with Northwest are, but I felt it had too many gimmick locations, where the central gimmick might be interesting but that didn't feel fleshed out and full of plothooks the same way some other locations did. In general, I felt like East, Southeast, South and Southwest were a lot better handled it At8D than West, Northwest, North and Northeast.

>>95881990
I think West was pretty good. I will say that South East has some cool locations, but places like Madara / the Relict location / Dis / The Orchid Court just didn't inspire me. Champoor, Volivat and Ys were excellent.

>>95881997
There was something about the writing style of at least some Western locations that bugged me. I'm writing this while on a break at work so I can't look up any particular examples right now, though.

>will say that South East has some cool locations, but places like Madara / the Relict location / Dis / The Orchid Court just didn't inspire me. Champoor, Volivat and Ys were excellent.
I was a bit disappointed with Dis because I expected something weirder from a nonhuman race, but genetally speaking Southeast felt like the Direction that got the most love. There were a couple of very cool individual locations in other Directions too, of course. Gentian and Ember were the standouts for me, largely because they had the kind less-than-Exalted magic in them that the setting could stand to hace more of.

>>95881897
the premise is all "oh it's so haunted and desolate and nobody likes being there" and failed to answer the follow up question of "why should i give a shit then?". a desolate place full of tribes, ruins, and little else is exactly why people thought the north/west/south in 1/2e were boring, why would they encourage that again?

>>95882131
>a desolate place full of tribes, ruins, and little else is exactly why people thought the north/west/south in 1/2e were boring
No, no, we disliked wastelands because they weren't full of tribes and ruins. The same regions that are full of ruins (Scavenger Lands, Blessed Isle, the far East, etc) are the ones which are also full of people, while the desolate wastelands didn't have much of either and ended up as big bland blank areas on the map.

I've been lead to believe that the exalt types should match up with some WoD creature type, but I haven't been able to find anything on it? Is it just fan speculation or is there something official on it? Which exalted match to which wods? I guess abyssals are vampire, lunars werewolf and liminals promethean? What about the rest?

>>95882381
Look at this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_A8yY_iyYk

After watching that, keep in mind that these parallels were mostly by dorks who did it because it was cool, even if certain details might really make you think there's meant to be significantly more to it

>>95882466
Alchemicals didn't have a directly analog, despite some people trying to push for Prometheans once it was released.

>>95882724
They did, it's called HIT MARKs. Literally down to the installing Charms / Installing Devices.

>>95882767
Curious how the technocrats and the mokole had their own analog.
The latter is explained by the pulp lizardmen archetype.

>>95882831
You forgot about Fair Folk and Changelings. I don't think your explanations are very good, you should read the books.

>>95882851
I meant minor/subsplat.

>>95882466
Huh. This is the first time I've seen what Grabowski actually looks like after years with this game. Somehow he looks exactly like how I imagined him.

>Technocrats and mokole.
How would you create things for exalted inspiration WoD's elements?
I am not talking about ports, just taking some ideas and reworked them to fit in exalted.

A flesh warping variation of the great contagion based on the Tzimice?
Living paradoxes named marauders?
An asteroid belt made from a dead Incarna?

>>95837260 (OP)
Were early versions of Agents of Heaven (Sidereal Companion) ever posted?

>>95883629
>A flesh warping variation of the great contagion based on the Tzimice?
I would definitely not start by making it related to the Great Contagion. You'll immediately give false impressions that'll have people who skim read or don't pay too much attention / sometimes miss things at the table making incorrect assumptions. There are both supernatural diseases outside the big one. I'd point you at spiritual diseases instead, and more specifically at the Jigsaw Organ Condition from Citrine Poxes.

>Living paradoxes named marauders
The Loom of Fate is made to deal with precisely this, but it does have errors, and something like a character with a reality warping field of un-fate could make a suitable one-shot mission for a Sidereal group.

>an asteroid belt
Let me stop you right there, because by the point you're going to space in Exalted you've kind of lost the plot.

>>95883816
3e writers want to add an outer space/firmament to the game, but it is a big mystery box

>>95884130
>3e writers want to add an outer space/firmament to the game, but it is a big mystery box
See previous comment on going to space.

>>95881528
>Digimon Adventures. Is this the part where I bait out the isekai anon?
No, you just have to figure out how to make Alchemical familiars.

>>95883816
>Let me stop you right there, because by the point you're going to space in Exalted you've kind of lost the plot.

To be fair, going into a celestial god location could be pretty neat and Gunstar Autochthonia is a thing.

>>95883629
>How would you create things for exalted inspiration WoD's elements?
>I am not talking about ports, just taking some ideas and reworked them to fit in exalted.
Alchemicals and Dragon kings are already a thing.
>An asteroid belt made from a dead Incarna?
I am sure you can have a lot of weird shit in that style with the Malfeans.

>>95882217
>we
what is it with autists itt trying to pretend their preferences are thread consensus (if such a thing can even exist)? some people do enjoy having space to work with and horror themes in their exalted.

>>95886032
>some people do enjoy having space to work with and horror themes in their exalted.
How the fuck do you sell horror in Exalted?

>>95886166
ask yourself how a ST facilitates drama in exalted and there you shall find your answer

>>95886166
Go action horror like evil dead, or role reversal with the PCs being the monsters.

Similar to masquerade, the problem with traditional horror is the scaling; it is hard to balance certain horror aspects like the uphill battle and the loss of control.

>>95884130
Technically it was a thing as early as 2e at least (look up Glories: Maiden), it's just that it was a big mystery box there too.

>>95886166
2e Abyssals and Chapters 1-2 of Manual: Infernals ;^)

>>95887126
>Selling horror
>2e Abyssals, first two Infernals Chapters

Anon, they asked how you sell horror, not how you cut yourself on all the edge and cause fandom schisms.

>>95844884
>an instigating event that launches the protagonist into the rest of the story by removing them from their old home/context to which they never truly return
That's... just literally the first step of the archetypical Hero's Journey. People have already pecked you for the other retarded points, but this is an exceptional level of retardation to misunderstand on the most basic level..

Abyssals continues the tradition of shit front covers

>>95890043
I am not entirely why, but something feels off about it.
Not bad, but "wrong".

>>95890043
>guy is meant to be black
>the coloring makes him look white
>the outfit is utter shit and dripless
>that green background
hmm

>>95890096
White guy with dreadlocks wearing a dress

>>95890120
I meant the way it was drawn, the wrists don't connect to the arms, and the lower body has a weird feel.
The curvature of the body feels weird.

>>95890143
I've noticed that a couple of times, the artists seem to not fully grasp how human spines work.

>>95890043
>>95848797(Me)
Seems the midnight caste goober won. incidentally >>95837260 (OP) anyone got that pdf?

>>95890096
I think it's the mask. It looks like there was a proper wizard drawn in full, and then the mask was pasted in on top of it. It clashes with the rest of him, and... honestly, looking at it, doesn't it seem like his hair should be going through it? Those dreadlocks look like they start much far enough forward that they're completely off with the way the mask should be holding them down. That and there's a lot of bad anatomy, looking at where his head's been stitched onto the body - with how he's leaning compared to how his legs are set he'd have to bend them back and put a crick in his spine to have his head back up like that, and even independent of the overall body shape his neck really does just twist up unnaturally out of his chest.

If it's intentional and he's supposed to be some kind of necrocrafted monstrosity then they've done an okay job, because it definitely does look like parts of two or three people stiched together.

>>95890154
Yes, the realistic face also crashes with the rest of the artwork.

And you can notice that his body is divided in 2, both is design and anatomy wise.

>>95883688
we got an early version of a supplement pdf precisely once, heirs io the shogunate in may 2020, and that was because the text was mostly complete and the devs wanted to be nice during the pandemic

>>95890259
I am like 90% sure that Moonshadow art is a recolor of something I've seen in another book

>>95890043
It is possible that this pic was AI generated, the borders of cape look like they have ai artifacts, specially to his left side.

>>95890290
Nah, that's just a bit of the image being cut out. For some reason. Even though there's nothing behind the bit that was clearly cut out.

>>95890043
The problem is how generic it looks. What part of this says Exalted in general let alone Abyssal?

>>95890043
the design of the character is just bad and wouldn't have looked good under any artstyle

>>95890415
Oh, Riot gave a weight gain skin for Rell? And the new ruined Nashor looks family.

>>95890043
Any changes in the necromantic initiations and spells?

>>95890415
Only now I noticed the deformed right hand.

>>95890434
Yes, none of them look death themed.
Even Chinese games can pull it off.

>>95890521
Some changes, mainly on the control effects of spells. Invocation of the Hekatonkhires seems significantly better than in the draft.

>>95890452
>>95890415
there's been fat exalts before, but they aren't common. nagezeer is the obvious one but he's a dynast cripple so small wonder. i think there was one in the day caste book in 1e, a middle aged guy that was mayor of his town

>>95890259
man, i guessed three of them wrong. i thought walks behind was moonshadow, kingeater was day, and bride was dusk

>>95890108
from this >>95890259 i would assume latino-esque before black, but that's me

>>95890856
I was joking about her hair

>>95890536
>Yes, none of them look death themed.
>Even Chinese games can pull it off.
I think they tried to be more subtle but ended up not conveying anything.

>>95891482
Only two have death imagery, they look more evil minions than anything, the purple hair (midnight) is the worst offender, I can't even tell anything about her.

God damn they're just so boring looking.

Half of them could just be (lame) DND PCs.

>>95891892
>Half of them could just be (lame) DND PCs
I am pretty sure d&d pcs have more thoughts put behind them, even the ones I made in high-school, who were just rip-offs of popular characters.

>>95890259
It's just so sad, man. They really can't find a better arist?

>>95892036
Please understand, the mobile market and rich furries outbid them.
Now tabletop games have to use the bottom of the barrel.

I thought Abyssals had to have long flowery names, Kingeater seems out of place

>>95890043
former OPP freelancer here. apparently, the art coordinator says that he no longer accepts any feedback, ever, about the quality of pieces. this is because he's a lazy, egotistical piece of filth. every single person working with this trash company knows exactly how bad the art is, but nobody can comment because the coordinator won't hear it and the owner's his buddy.

>>95892305
I thought Rich is the art coordinator

>>95892348
Michael Cheney

>>95892278
I think they just realized how titles and "names made of words" work.

Are there any new images of the Deathlords?

>>95892762
There's no pics in the Deathlords section

>>95890259
What are their castes? It's hard to tell.

>>95892773
Standard Abyssal line up left to right, caste marks are visible behind then

>>95892305
this makes a lot of sense. every writer and dev seems painfully aware of it from the fancord.

>>95891482
I feel like it being a subtle appearance needs to be counterbalanced by having a gothic art style. There's lots of great art out there that screams Abyssal that doesn't innately have stereotyped trappings of death.

>>95893044
>There's lots of great art out there that screams Abyssal that doesn't innately have stereotyped trappings of death.
I feel like a lot of 40K character art would work as abyssals

All cover characters.

>>95893339
Its upsetting for several reasons that Janest is the best of the bunch

>>95893365
Behold! All of the iconics. They are very memorable and unique. I want to use them in my game because of how memorable they all are.

>>95893365
Is Janest some dev's waifu?

>>95893463
Volfr being a standout is fucking depressing

>>95890154
>the artists seem to not fully grasp how human spines work

>>95893551
His right hand took all my attention

>>95893518
You just like him for being the only normal-looking white dude.

>>95893551
I'm just happy we got some stereotypically evil vampire goth Abyssals.

>>95893666
I am pretty racist. But honestly Perfect Soul is the best of the bunch artistically

>>95893463
it's weird how they'll do full names on some but not others. shen is an iselsi and koraia is marukani, but you wouldn't know looking at these

>>95893339
that's why the new covers seem weird. the first three have detailed or abstract designs on at least one of the color backgrounds, and the latter three just don't bother

>>95893339
Strange how green Abyssals are now.

>>95892762
This is the Mask of Winters, I think.

>>95894256
Here's the Walker

>>95894278
The Eye and Seven Despairs

>>95894290
And, finally, The First and Forsaken lion.

>>95894325
Forgot my fucking pic.

>>95894390
His design didn't change that much

>>95894256
>>95894278
>>95894290
>>95894390
Thank you kind anon. No pics of the Lover?

>>95894556
The Lover appears to be depicted in the pic in >>95893551

>>95894556
Looks like I missed The Silver Prince.

>>95894586
>>95893551
Oh, is this supposed to be the Lover? She's described in her writeup as wearing cerulean robes, and that girl looks like she's 19, which they never do anymore for ancient women.

>>95893551
>>95894256
>>95894278
>>95894290
>>95894390
>>95894807
Walker's the best of the bunch by far, I think. Lion's got a solid design that, as >>95894412 says, hasn't changed much, but the execution here is pretty bad and makes him look goofy rather than threatening. Mask is actually pretty bad, and that's a terrible take on his titular mask. Eye's fine but it needs more gothic grandeur or some shit. The thing he's working on looks silly, and his workshop is literally just a regular workshop, which isn't great. Like, depict him cackling madly while testing out his latest doomsday device or something, that'd be better. Silver Prince isn't terrible, but he also needs to be a bit flashier. Lack of flashiness is a major complaint I have with 3E art in general. Not the only complaint, of course, but there are some otherwise kind of alright pieces of art there that just feel too drab and muted for Exalted.

>>95895570
The problem is that they aren't eerie, the lion would look better if the inside of his helmet was completely black and the darkness leaked like smoke.

Small question what book had that part piece of a solar blocking the strike from a primordial in a style reminiscing of old mural art?

>>95893551
>That goblet
>It's so... Tempting.

>>95894390
The design on this is pretty decent.

I think it's just the art style and colouring that makes it feel a bit tacky.

>>95893551
The Lover looks like an NTR queen. It fits her lore.

>>95895570
It's almost impressive how unspeakably absent is any sense of grandeur or personality is in 3e art in general. Like I genuinely can't see why anyone'd give the books a second look in a game store unless they had a friend insistently shilling.

It's like the devs have a completely backwards notion of what sells a game and are convinced that sanding down the edges to make it less offensive will do anything when the books are so dense and ugly as to be repellent to any new demographics so their efforts are entirely invisible to anyone but the existing community (which stick around out of battered wife syndrome).

>>95895570
Yeah, the reason i missed the Silver Prince is that I thought he was just some generic nobody that got sandwhiched in his writeup.

>>95897457
The art director has a really bad taste for art.

>>95897782
It's not RichT at the moment, but >>95892361