Alright anons, the ultimate battle
Yugioh or Magic, which is better?

I think the balance of YGO is usually better. It has power creep of course, and they bring out ridiculous summoning methods just too change the way they function in the next big update but overall not as messy as MTG.

Magic is a fucking mess. Yugioh is trash but it's coherent trash. Magic just fucking sucks.

>>95869058
>Balanced
>When winning turn 1 is a prerequisite to not having a shitty deck

>>95869008 (OP)
magic because there all the shit is not meaninglessly multiplied by 100

>>95869008 (OP)
>ygo
>only supported format is basically set up negates and hand-traps with massive amount of power creep. games are decided in 2-3 turns
>mtg
>multiple formats ranging from legacy (comparable to ygo in terms of speed, but less creep) to well-supported draft/sealed to the casual 4 person EDH format
This alone seals the deal for MTG being the winner to me, although I do enjoy some of the rarely played YGO formats like edison and goats too.

>>95869008 (OP)
It's funny that yugioh was born from a manga where the card game itself wasn't even the central aspect of it and only came into existence because of the show reverse engineering from all the handwavy shit they came up with.

>>95869058
>balance is literally breaking the power creep every set intentionally
Cunt.

>>95869008 (OP)
Magic is a better game if I have to pick between these two. Yugioh is straight up unplayable outside of old (unofficial) formats and goofing around with your friends.

I however am not a CCG enthusiast, and those were the only two games I tried playing. Surely there is a better third option

>>95870755
The original manga was about games. I forget the details but the guy writing it had the basics of a card game well in place from its first appearance. Not to say they didnt have to change things or hammer out any details but it was hardly inventing a game to fit the events, the game was in there to begin with

>>95869008 (OP)
Both trash

>>95869008 (OP)
>This is a real, legal magic card
I don't know much about yugioh but it can't be much worse than this

>>95871531
ENTERS

>>95869185
This anon gets it.

>>95869459
As if magic doesn't have that problem but 3 turns

>>95870792
Uh. . .yes? The broken stuff gets banned, pretty quickly usually. The next field update either makes the new stuff from before more easy to play or changes the rules so other things are easier to play. Seems pretty reasonable.
Example: link monsters came out, created 2 new spaces in field. This update moved pendulum zones making them slightly more awkward to play. Link made it so you can't special summon except to that space or a space a link was pointing to. Next update made it so only links had to go there first making all other special summons more viable while the broken links were either banned or made harder to summon by this.

MtG is the better game system, however Jews of the Coast turned it into crossover slop and ruined essentially every format people played so Yugioh wins by doing nothing. Still 'ate Links, one card starters, power creep/card design, and decks being compromised of 20+ handtraps.
I haven't given JotC money in a long awhile and I don't intend to.

pokemon more than doubles both of their sales figures

>>95872670
And it's somehow still 3rd place.

MTG is nothing but fat angle shooting cheaters

>>95869008 (OP)
At this point? Yugioh. I have never played Yugioh. If if I take a shit today and fish it out of the toilet and put it under glass to keep it as a valuable heirloom it would still be better than what MTG is now.

>>95872659
MTGs underlying systems good. Thats what makes the crossover garbage all the more tragic, its buried under that.

>>95869008 (OP)
Exodia is better than the mtg version in your OP, it doesn't use the stack and you just win the game, no timing required except it can't be during the resolution of an effect or spell.

>>95872659
They really named a card "gimmick puppet cattle scream"?
Sounds like something straight out of /pol/

I can jack off to YGO. Can't do that with magic

>>95869008 (OP)
Magic simply because there are a hundred different ways to play it and at least 3 of them don't suck/cost $1000 dollars

>Magic
A greed-filled hollow shell made of shit and DEI. Easily one of the worst tabletop games in the world today.

>YGO
A psychotic cringe mess of balls to the wall retardation.

YGO wins.

>YGO
"I must COOMBO and do my epick 15 minute comberino, this is so hella wholesomerino 100!!! Opponent is doing his hella epic T1 comborino? Time for me to goon it up!!"
>MtG
"I GOT COUNTERSPELLED!? ME!? INTERACTED WITH!? SHIT FORMAT DEI SHIT GAME REEEE!!! MOOOOOOOOOM!!!!!!!"

>>95876261
>I have never played Yugioh
You would probably change your mind if you did. Not that MTG is good, but Yugioh is barely even a game at this point

>>95870697
>only supported format is (advanced format)
There was a fucking shitstorm because Konami tried to impose current card erratas and game mechanics on Time Wizard format to parallel their upcoming Time Attack format in Master Duel (where in both cases they're legacy formats, but the latter does what Konami tried to do). Sanctioned events are hosting both of them now, because there's an audience for one and a potential market for the other.

At least pretend to know what you're talking about.

>>95884606
Excuse me,
>Time Attack
* Time Travel

>>95883795
That's a bit of a misrepresentation. The problem with the game in its current state can largely be boiled down to irresponsible card designers that probably don't know any better since they either don't play the game or are fresh hires.

>Handtraps
These on their own are not an issue at all. They're compounded by the next two points, where their rise to prominence is only possible because of them. Droll is an issue and can go directly to hell though. People are running that son of a bitch at 3 copies and it results in so many non-games that it isn't even funny.
>1-card engines
Precisely what it sounds like. We can get entire combos started off of the successful resolution of a single card, without needing to worry about how many other parts of their engine you drew into. We can shove as much non-engine and interruption into our decks as humanly possible, because we only need to draw into 1 starter.
>Restrictionless engines
These are things like Fiendsmith, Snake-Eye, Tenpai, Melodious, and King's Sarcophagus to name a few. Not all of them are of the same power, but they share the same problem where they're 1-card engines that don't restrict you in any (meaningful) way. The fact that they're restrictionless removes one of the biggest safeguards that kept the game sane up until 2022 (or a little later if you ignore Tearlaments and Kashtira), where you'd be railroaded by type, attribute, summoning type, or (very rarely) stats. I'm not fundamentally opposed to them, but I am very much so when they're doing as much legwork as Fiendsmith without having rudimentary restrictions like Adventurer Engine.

I'm of the opinion that the current format *can* still be fun, but there's a good reason Time Wizard is taking off. Recently I've heard more people showing interest in Tengu/HAT, and if I'm lucky TOSS will also gain popularity. I don't like GOAT/Reaper/Edison, they are too far-gone from the game I liked for me to be interested.

I've played both since 2002 and pic related is the clear winner

>>95869008 (OP)
So literally "The Love Letter of MTG"

OR

MTG?

>>95869008 (OP)
MTG used to be better on card art, rules consistency and flavor alone.
However MTG deteriorated on art and flavor while YGO sorted out its rules but remained consistent on its style

Old MTG wins, new YGO wins

>>95872659
Wizards is getting outsiders to buy product. They're fucking up the integrity of their game, but from a marketing perspective, they're winning by some extreme degree. At least, in the west.

Yu-Gi-Oh! has a serious problem of its own though, which is that the years of creep and added mechanics makes the game feel impenetrable to new players. If you buy a structure deck to play with your friend who is not even playing a tourney-level deck, but is keeping up with the trends enough to play the game on a regular basis, you will be shredded to pieces and it won't even have looked like it was possible for you to win. The other player will have clocked so many possible actions, and done such a long string of things just because that's "normal" that you will not even know where to start to learn from the experience. It's a very serious issue, along with the fact that the secondary market for the game is something like evil.

At least in Magic, playing relatively casual Magic with a more experienced player while you're using a fresh deck will give you some opportunity to play around before you lose. It feels like getting there is much more attainable.

Magic is best when played with at a kitchen table with cards in one hand, a beer in the other, and everyone within slapping distance if they get too uppity.

That's the biggest part where Yu-Gi-Oh fails, it doesn't expect that you have friends or that you're if drinking age, and being the biggest fucking faggot possible is just the default game state.

>>95888245
Kitchen table YGO still exists, just... not all that much. Because it's hard to get new players into the game at all. Most of the people who play like that have been playing casual YGO for ages, and were just willing to adapt to the new stuff a bit without being sucked into blowing all their pocket money on hand traps and top tier extra deck ammunition.

>>95888275
It's simpler than that. It's that YGO doesn't have a proper multiplayer format. That's a lot of what I mean when I say the game doesn't expect you to have friends.
That's not even a criticism of the game mechanically, just that its lack of accessibility in the long term has caused poor retention and makes it really difficult to approach casually for long term investment.

>>95888310
I get what you're saying, and there probably is some bearing there. Though there's nothing that's stopped players from playing casual multiplayer anyway. After all, while not strictly codified in an official format, tag dueling is prominent throughout the related media.

>>95869008 (OP)
I want to say MtG is better, but then I remember the LotR and Fortnite sets.

>>95869058
yugioh has like 4 cards holding the entire thing together making it function as a game if you remove those handtraps what do you have

>>95872196
>As if magic doesn't have that problem but 3 turns
But that's not the same. If you can win turn 1 there is no game. The turn 3 win 'requirement' for some Magic formats is if your opponent doesn't interact with you and you can play unbothered.

>>95892384
A game with a horrible meta but a good everything-else.

>>95888275
>>95888310
Goat format?

>>95893430
That and speed duel can be good kitchen sink formats. Problem is that nobody plays Speed Duel and Konami stopped that line. In-house rules aren't difficult in those formats to support multiple players.

>>95869008 (OP)
I like the underlying aspects of yugioh. There's an underlying idea of flipping a magic cylinder to turn an atk back, or feathers that negate spells, that leads to interactivity or chaos. (Now this would be handtraps. I'm putting all modern meta considerations aside.) I tried grasping the notion of mana but it was from Pokemon TCG. It looks like a slower game where you slowly build your mon but any notion of traps is not a focus.
>>95871107
Yup. It was one of many games and that game catch on.

>>95871531
What's wrong with it? Like I'm sure that you're referring to the artwork here and not the effect. It's not exactly to my taste but it's no Bearscape alt.

>>95893978
Pretty sure that's a fortnite card.

I played lots of master duel, but I gave up Yugioh. The endless barrage of game ending hand traps and constant power creep are annoying (the newest deck is almost always the best deck). When the meta shit finally takes a hit it’s just to nerf it before the newest set is released. Legacy support is generally shit and forgotten almost immediately (ie. Gate Guardian). It’s so much fun when there’s variety, but there’s never variety. 450+ archetypes and most are unplayable due to hand traps and the power creeped decks designed to play around them. You’ll only ever see the same handful of overpowered decks playing the same copy pasted lines over and fucking over and that’s the biggest killer.

>>95895879
>Legacy support is generally shit and forgotten almost immediately (ie. Gate Guardian)
Legacy support has been some of the most perversely broken shit in the game. You can point to BEWD which is currently a meta threat for the first time in the game's entire history, but you can also point to the Exchange of the Spirits ("Ishizu") cards completely breaking the game in half alongside Tearlaments. There's also a lot of legacy support that you probably aren't aware of because you weren't paying attention to the series past DM, like Yubel, Melodious (briefly meta but still extremely good), Resonator (some parts were used for meta decks but it otherwise served as a strong Rogue deck for a time), Atlantean and Fire King (two VERY old archetypes that relatively-recently got good support and good engines they could be paired with), and others. I could list more but I'd just be firing on all cylinders here.

It's also really funny that you mention Gate Guardian specifically, given that they made a playable engine out of a series that consisted of 3 cards with no synergy, one of the absolute worst stinkers of a monster in the game's history, and completely unrelated normal monsters.

>>95893430
Goat format is not bad, and a lot of people enjoy it, but it's also just... so specific. The game was still in one of its earliest developmental phases, and its meta game is so worked out by this point.

>>95896371
NTA and I haven't been paying super close attention, but did that chefs archetype that supports Hungry Burger end up being anything real?

I remember when Thunder Dragons came into being a real archetype, and that shit kinda worked.

>>95899292
>Nouvelles
It's a solid casual deck but not something that'll ever see tournament play, which is an alright role for it to assume in my personal opinion. It's also pretty decent in Duel Links if I'm not mistaken. A fundamental problem with the deck is that your opponent can just summon all of their monsters in defense position to completely invalidate your gameplan. A later support wave would add a card that forces them into attack position, but it came too little too late. It's not completely unplayable garbage, but it is wholly unviable in a tournament setting.

Another old ritual card that randomly got an archetype, Skull Guardian in the form of Voiceless Voice, managed to fare a lot better in comparison. It was a meta threat for a short while since the deck had a pretty good amount of redundancy and protection without having to rely on the typical Ritual search cards.

>>95869008 (OP)
Yugioh's core mechanics are better than Magic's. Lands are a fucking relic, and any game that requires mulligan rules is a poorly designed game.
I haven't played a game of ygo in a fat minute though and that's because I enjoy commander too much. Or rather, commander with friends

>>95888310
Domain is getting pretty popular; I'm gonna have to put a few decks together to see if anyone will try it out

>>95899673
The core mechanics are still solid but the card effects have gotten really retarded. All of the sound design basically does not matter because the new card designers can't help but to make something retarded every set, or to make a perfectly reasonable archetype and add one card that makes it stupidly powerful.

>>95869008 (OP)
Premodern mtg is better than Yugayhoe. Modern MTG is just as garbage as Yugayhoe.

>>95869058
>I think the balance of YGO is usually bette
>play new card or die right away
>forced to have 2/4 for handtraps and pray you open them when going 2nd

>>95869008 (OP)
Historically Magic was better but it reached the decay point 4 times over now depending on who you ask.
Yugioh while not as well designed hasn't changed as much, just gotten more frontloaded.

In other term magic had the bigger distance to fall and so it feels worse regardless .

>>95902433
>dude you NEEEEEED!!!!! these handtraps!!!!
People these days are just too new to know what kaijus are, or keep their noses so close to their netdecks that they forgot that they exist. And you would THINK that this is a time where people would be teching in stuff like counter traps, kaijus and kaiju-likes, generic backrow removal, blowout going second cards, and a heap of other tech options since more than 20 out of the 40 cards in their decks can go to non-engine thanks to 1-card combos, but they just refuse to do it.

>I could just side in Sphere Mode and delete my opponent's board after they combo off... but... but the CONSISTENCY....
>meanwhile, their opening hand: ash blossom, droll, droll, effect veiler, triple tactics thrust

>>95869008 (OP)
MTG. MTG has AIDS and cancer yet Yugioh still has comparable shittiness is a testament to how little quality matters in the TCG market.