Thread 95873953

Full scale Titanicus edition

Previous Heresy: >>95869116

>HH 3.0 Leaks
folderh6UWVBQT#0HcYrSCiXG-dfmYV5aSplQ

>New Edition Soon™
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/setting/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/

>New to The Horus Heresy? Here’s Everything You’ll Need to Get Started
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/05/30/new-to-the-horus-heresy-heres-everything-youll-need-to-get-started/
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>Thread FAQ (very old, remembers Age of Terra)
https://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8
https://pastebin.com/8riDmnhS
>30k TACTICA & TIPS
https://pastebin.com/Tm2P4QLp
https://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Age_of_Darkness-Warhammer_30k/2.0_Tactics/General_Tactics
>HH1 Black Books
folderh6UWVBQT#0HcYrSCiXG-dfmYV5aSplQfolderVq1UBZzR
>HH2 Rules and Supplements
folderh6UWVBQT#0HcYrSCiXG-dfmYV5aSplQfoldertr82FJIT
>Miscellaneous Extras (Visions and Old Rules)
folderh6UWVBQT#0HcYrSCiXG-dfmYV5aSplQfolderVz9kkLrY

『Adeptus Titanicus and Legions Imperialis』
>Adeptus Titanicus Rules and Supplements
folderh6UWVBQT#0HcYrSCiXG-dfmYV5aSplQfolder52sU2DrI
>Legions Imperialis Rules and Supplements
folderh6UWVBQT#0HcYrSCiXG-dfmYV5aSplQfoldertukkWDhQ
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/legions-imperialis/
>List of Titan Legions with Badges and Colours
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17Jccq0V--SwJifLVLwbisYnQeqLlS2pMSiPbGXp1Brs/htmlview
>More lists
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_Titan_Legions
>What size magnets do I need?
5x1mm
>Tactics
https://1d6chan.miraheze.orug/wiki/Adeptus_Titanicus/Tactics

Thread Question:
If 3.0 displeases you enough or your army is made unusable will you finally move over to Titanicus?

>TQ
Why the fuck would I paint ugly mechs?

New detachments are the worst part of HH3.0

>>95873971
Nah, weapons have D and starting the damage/wounds creep is far worse.

Post Centurions

>>95873971
Bro the detachment system is fine, they've already shown how easy it is to fit existing armies into the new system. How is that worse than the obnoxious garbage that is the Challenge system, or the nonsense vehicle damage tables where only glancing hits actually disable anything while penetrating hits can bring a vehicle down to 1 HP but it still functions perfectly?

>>95873953 (OP)
Can Thallax speak?
I know skitarii can, if not very well, but the fluff seems to imply that Thallax are above servitors in terms of consciousness to the point of being in perpetual mental torture until death, so I figured they must have some sort of personality even if its mostly robotic

>>95873999
Because its tailor made to be exploited for cheesy lists where you spam the equivilent of a dozen heavy support choices or whatever.

Any kind of 'spam X' list is much easier to do, and able to be spammed much harder, with this kind of list building.

>>95873971
>t. brainlet

>>95874009
I imagine they're capable of *communicating* in terms of relaying relevant battlefield intelligence to their superiors and each other, but probably not just speaking aloud - kind of ruins the whole "screaming internally" shtick if they can have a chat with a random Auxilliaman about their creaky hip joint.

>>95874009
They can speak, but it's only via megadrive samples.

>>95874009
They can probably speak but if their entire personality has been excised during the conversion process they probably on speak to convey tactical data to any local forces that aren't hooked up to their network.

>>95874009
>Can Thallax speak?
No.
>the fluff seems to imply that Thallax are above servitors in terms of consciousness to the point of being in perpetual mental torture until death
Because of this. They are in short just brainwashed(by cuting parts of their brain lol) cyborgs. They are above tech-thralls and way above servitors.
To show diference servitors are dumb, if person who is in controll of servitor isn't around then servitor is mindlocked and will follow last given command in loop. Mechanicus fixes this problem with having noosphere, so heavy combat servitors almost always have connection to someone in charge, but when they los it they are dumb again.
Tech-thralls(unless completly mind wiped), Thallaxes and Skitarii still have mind of their own, it might be supressed but they still have functioning mind and are capable of making it's own decission, so if they are cut from command they can think of some solution instead of following last order in loop.
And yes being inside torment machine cause Thallax's psyche to deteriorate, but they are mechanicum shoock troops, they will die assaulting some enemy position under heavy radiation before that happens anyway. It's simlar to radiation skitarii, their rad guns slowly kill them and make skitarii themselves radiation hazard to themselves and anyone around them(they worked as rad grenades but it was just them existing). It slowly kills them but Magos can just replace damaged fleshy parts with new fleshy parts.

>>95874009
they can synthesize speech but it isn't necessarily nice to listen to

>>95874041
>>95874045
>>95874056
It's a trope kinda done to death, but I like the idea of a doom guy thallax who manages to survive and survive and survive throughout the heresy, driven by pure hatred of traitors, before finally disappearing in a portal after chasing into it to kill more heretics

>>95873953 (OP)
Thinking of picking up a box of the rapier's if only cause there are some nice bits in there, but it had me thinking if the dudes I'm looking to collect slowly (shattered legions) would have even had any at the dropsite. Is there like a documented or rough list of "hey here's some shit that was typically spotted" or is literally everything up for grabs so long as it isn't something like drop pods or a mass armoured column?

>>95874085
Sadly they probably need too much maintenance for that to be viable.
Now a more 30-40k version would be a magos that so super fucking mad they hook their mind up to the thallax and turns the whole troop into doom slayers and just fixes them up between battles while ignoring all greater strategy. Like if the doom slayer were the vega program instead of the marine.

>>95874095
Is there a place to see the sprue for the rapers

>>95874103
>Sadly they probably need too much maintenance for that to be viable.
Mechanically, it's not out of the question. There have been mechanicus robots going rogue and solo in both 30k and 40k, though they were usually bigger

A thallax that could last very long on its own without going completely insane is a different matter, and it would be a very unique individual that could do that for long

>>95874095
shattered legions foght as guerilla raiders behind enemy lines for the most part, so realistically they wouldnt be bringing along tons of superheavies and stuff like that; they'd probably mostly use air power, speeders, that sort of thing.

>>95873981
This is pretty bad.

>>95873971
I would have preferred a scaling mechanic. 2.0 FOC but officers grant more slots. No compulsory slots is the most power gaming move there is. Line would have to be Line(10) to actually matter because any player with half a brain will take the killiest list possible and simply kill the line units. 40k has this problem, the ONLY troops that are good are good because their father is good and it has nothing to do with scoring.

>>95874095
Rapiers are some of the most common astartes equipment around and are dropped in with troops, so if you see tactical marines around there are probably rapiers too

>rough list of "hey here's some shit that was typically spotted"
Generally no, they like to keep it pretty vague. But the black books did make a point of saying "Everyone had everything and did everything to some degree, but some legions specialized more in some areas"

>or is literally everything up for grabs so long as it isn't something like drop pods or a mass armoured column?
There are blackshields that canonically captured 2 ordinatus from Horus and used them, so you can really go nuts

>>95874144
>father
Datasheet* interesting auto correct...

>>95874144
>Line would have to be Line(10) to actually matter
Tacticals have Line (4), and it's not just that they count as 4 guys for scoring, if ONE tactical marines survives and grabs that objective he's getting 4 VP instead of 1

Terminators are actually AWFUL at grabbing objectives now, unless it's from other terminators, and even then you just straight up get less VP for doing it

>>95873999
Wouldnt be too worried about challenges, not changing the WS chart is infinitely more offensive and worse for melee than challenges
The worst I can say about challenges is that 9 gambits is too much and probably won’t matter if unnamed heroes can still reliably kill in a single round of combat

Parts of vehicle changes are kinda nice, S5-7 guns being good at disabling the effectiveness of light/medium armor without being able to quickly plink it down is a positive change
Melta being shafted against AV14 is absolutely and utterly retarded tho

>>95874095
In addition to what >>95874153 said, understand that your force isn't a representation of the average force. Eg if the force as a whole only has 10 tanks you don't need to take just one to make some arbitrary %avg representation. You can have wild choices and they could be the only surviving examples of that unit and that's fine.

New players get stuck on "X legion does X tactic thus my ratios of XYZ units must match the legion as a whole".

>>95874168
>ONE tactical marines survives and grabs that objective he's getting 4 VP instead of 1
I know. They can't score any VP if they're dead. If you don't have any points used on compulsory units just take what kills tacs and profit. Sudden Death is still in too.

>>95874127
An anon posted the sprues in the previous thread, but honestly just from the preview images alone I'm kinda keen; can see some good IH bits like the augmented head and the servo skull and those holstered bolters are divine.
>>95874142
>>95874144
The duality of man.

They seem bulky but I'm sure rapiers are likely a lower priority threat than vehicles like scorpius' or predator tanks, so maybe they have some in excess that could be set up for like ambushes or something? They're really one of the things I'm sort of scrambling for an excuse to use
>>95874187
Fair fair, I guess I just don't want to go too crazy and stand out much to the point it seems like pure silliness

>>95874141
>going completely insane
without emotion thallax aren't capable of going insane. More like it would just very logically and efficiently go about killing absolutely everything its reasoning would demand it to without any sort of rest or mercy or exception or regard for any activity it might have once been required to carry out.

>>95874168
Its kinda stinky to make basic troops better in the meta sense of 'helps you win the mission harder' instead of actually just making them better. Or you know, at least not removing their mandatory requirement in most lists.

I know line before was already a 'meta' advantage, but just saying a unit is good because it has +3 vp cap power but is dogwater at actually playing the game is pretty zzz.

Fuck I just wish they didn't keep the awful 2.0 WS table. Why does basic troops (let alone non marine stuff) have to just be completely and utterly fucked when facing a unit with +1 WS?

>>95873202
redwarden Gen3B conversion kit, i already shared them look at the archives.

All they fuckin had to do was take the 9th detachments. Them shits worked fine

>>95874203
>I know. They can't score any VP if they're dead.
Have you considered that you can take both line units and elite-killy units while using each in their preferred area of expertise in a synchronized, dare I say...*tactical* manner?

You put tacticals on your backline/midline because they're VP farmers and try to get your elites past their elites to get them. They're actually necessary for mechanics now instead of just being literally mandatory

>>95874217
20 tacticals with an apothecary shit damage for their cost, especially in 3.0
>Why does basic troops (let alone non marine stuff) have to just be completely and utterly fucked when facing a unit with +1 WS?
WS5 deathstars aren't and weren't really that big of a deal, shooting absolutely ruled 2.0

Mechanicum bros how are we feeling about the new rules/leaks? I'm curious what thallax lightning guns will look like next edition

>>95874246
I finally bit the bullet and got the mechanicum battalion box that I had been staring at for months

I don't care if they end up good, I just wanted it before it disappeared and they'll look cool in front of my knights on display

Fuck I love their models and fluff though

>>95874239
Oh yeah, shooting was (and from what we've seen, will continue to be) the dominant theme of HH, but the WS changes in 2.0, which were in addition to every elite unit getting 2 wounds, really just completely killed the viability of basic troop units to overwhelm elite smashy units.

In 1.0, a elite unit with unwieldy ap2 smashy weapons could be seriously threatened by large blobs of despoilers from the decent melee legions. 20 world eater despoilers with hatred and 100 str 5 attacks on the charge was always hilarious.

When you hit on 5+ though, you need something like 40 chainaxe attacks to kill 1 (one) ws5 terminator.

How would an Eversor work in 3.0?

proonting so hard rn my dudes ong
i will have fifteen mondoshawan saturnines once this plate is pressed through and they even have guns along with their fists now
definitely leaning towards the ranged/melee mixture maybe barring a model or two as it's just so damn cool and XIIniggery calls out blaringly for cqc capacity
we're living in a golden age!

So uh...how are Solar Aux looking?

>>95874303
>Fear
Checked
>Panic
Checked
>Three 10x squads of heavy flamers & normal flamers rolling around in rhinos/land raiders
Checked.
Yep its gaming time

>>95874318
because I didn't add it like a retard; its not looking good for Solar Auxila

>Melee weapons nerfed
>Charge range fucked around with and made lower overall
>bonus attacks removed
>knights still WS4
It's so over

>>95874265
>When you hit on 5+ though, you need something like 40 chainaxe attacks to kill 1 (one) ws5 terminator.
Chaplains my man

>>95874344
They have the literal biggest non-titan melta weapons in an edition where melta can and *will* one shot shit, they'll be fine

>>95874351
sorry I was speaking of the assault phase in general.
But still WS4 is ass. Have I mentioned how much I disapprove? I'm not sure if I've made it obvious in the last two threads that I disapprove of knights being the same WS as standard 10 point mooks.

>>95874303
It's looking a little rough. Vehicle changes are a massive and great indirect buff just by virtue of how many vehicles the average SA list runs and the allied detachment in the new organisation means you can run some pretty full on SA support, but all the morale modifiers look like it'll be hell on earth for rifleman platoons and other infantry. If the close range lasrifles don't get extra damage or something then it's gonna be especially rough for firing lines to thousand cuts enemies to death. The damage system technically makes SA more capable in melee since they never really got access to instadeath anyway but like...Unless they're getting that new version of hatred it's still practically suicide running any form of SA melee.

Really it's hard to say, but it seems like it'll be dark days for the average man and his lasrifle until the liber clears shit up; what's happening with tercios, cohort doctrines, legiones auxilia, how the command structure is gonna look and how the command vox network functions will be the real tell tales.

>>95874141
>There have been mechanicus robots going rogue and solo in both 30k and 40k, though they were usually bigger
Usually said robots are from DAoT, so built diferent. Thallax is Mechanicum shock trooper, meant to assault enemy position while operating in worst condition possible and after battle get into maintanance. And as you noticed going mad is a problem.
Of course it can always be some tech-priest's prototype pet project of creating Thallax+, so he can go on without maintanance for decade or is capable of self maintanance.
>>95874211
Thallax are stated to suffer terminal deterioration of psyche over extended perioid of time. Meaning they go insane and suffer psychotic breakdowns.

>>95874303
blasts are looking good

>>95874394
>Meaning they go insane and suffer psychotic breakdowns.
That's simply the normal behavior when faced with the unreasonableness of the traitor, demon, and blasphemer.

>>95874347
Hatred has no benefit on hit chance anymore. So keeping the bad nuWS chart is terrible.

>>95874394
>terminal deterioration of psyche over extended perioid of time
Is Kill issue. I mean, skill issue

>>95874427
>hatred is now +1 to wound
>there is no +1 to hit special rule
>nor twin-linked
pretty weird choice desu

>>95874444
I love that this scene resulted in one of the coolest units in any Warhammer game

>>95873990
The World Eater needs some touchups then he'll be ready for some Agrax Earthshade and Berserker Bloodshade
The Emperor's Child (is that the singular?) needs much more work

Do we have any reason to believe they wouldn't revise more units to WS5?

>>95874508
We have no reason to think they would.

>>95874473
>sonic shriekers are probably -1 to Coolness or I
it's over EC bros

>>95874534
EC sergeants will probably all get Champion so they can accept challenges though.

Could someone point in the direction for some good word bearer-like stl's, i've got the prophets of ruin packs but i'm just after some more variation.
Also demon/daemon stl's that would fir the heresy aesthetic.
please

MARK FUCKING ONE WHEN

>>95874562
Bottom left is a vibe

>>95874562
soon™
>>95874567
I like this dudes art; I dont know the sauce though

I just want to be able to take all powerfists on my Ursarax again. I ain’t redoing those.

>>95874562
Just use fatcast eternas.

>>95874575
It’s an option on the plastic kit, isn’t it? That makes it pretty damn likely

>>95874303
Same as last thread.

>>95874473
and no +1 attack charging and no Furious Charge special rule, probably removing rad grenades, Reaping Blow nerfed to not be touching 2 models, but enemy unit must outnumber your unit (oh, you pistoled 1 of their 10 guys with volley attack? Now you all lose Reaping!)

This is not gonna be a good edition for melee.

>>95874394
How likely is it that the secutarii of a titan legion would have thallax, or a straight up reductor cohort?

I figured that would be the easiest shoe in ever, since I’m sure every reductor magos cyber jerks himself off to titans

>>95874586
No idea. Oldfag with resin. But I really hope that’s the case.

>>95874610
>no +1 attack charging and no Furious Charge special rule, probably removing rad grenades,
did you miss Impact and Phage special rules anon? (i have a problem with cloudflare and can't post images for some reason)

>>95874611
Ligma establishes that they do indeed get bonded cybernetica from thallax to thanatars.

>>95874530
>Reason
They dumb and silly tho

>>95874571
Says Gray Skull right there. He's got it on-point.

>>95874611
Likely.
Secutarii operate with Titan Legion, Titan Legions are Forge World's golden child and pride, Mars's ultimate flex was having 3 major titan legios. Titan Legion will get anything it needs or want, also Titan Legions are deployed to large scale, hard fights, guess what Reductor loves...
If there is titan there is bunch of mechanicum weirdos jerking off to it.

>>95874610
>Reaping Blow nerfed to not be touching 2 models, but enemy unit must outnumber your unit
That's just Rampage!
>(oh, you pistoled 1 of their 10 guys with volley attack? Now you all lose Reaping!)
I fucking hate this. Scythes keep getting worse and WORSE!

>>95874624
Rad grenade in 2E is just charge them and their unit gets -1 toughness for everything. phage(toughness) is reduce a stat to unit after you've already wounded it, and the phage doesn't apply until the next initiative step after it was applied (so if your initiative 4 unit successfully wounds someone with a phage weapon, they don't benefit until next turn except maybe some initiative 1 powerfist that can't insta-death anymore and doesn't care about -1 toughness anymore)

Skimmed past impact() just assumed it was impact hits thanks to GW being too retarded to name things properly, I guess it could potentially be used for Furious Charge as impact(strength) or impact(attack) for charge attack, though it's certainly gonna be much more rare than all melee troopers getting +1 attack for charging or having two melee weapons.

Both baseline melee troopers will be getting weaker and the elite ones will be getting weaker than 2E.

>>95874562
I mean, doesn't Tortuga have Thunder Warrior sculpts as well as the odd person making STLs

Are there any HH novels or fics that focus on the mundane, everyday life of baseline humans just trying to get on with it whilst immature super-soldiers have a world-ending shitfit?

>>95874729
Bro its a fucking soap opera

>>95874729
JOBP

>>95874729
Like half of The Lost and the Damed is from the POV of a solar axillia in the trenches and around 1/3rd of The First Wall is from the POV of a bunch of conscripts being shipped off to the front lines

I can't wait for games to be too lazy to create a real WE legion trait and put ravening madmen on everyone.

Also those retards basicaly said on the warcom about duel that World Eaters don't really know what a duel is when this is the legion who glorify them

>>95874729
there's bits and pieces of the rose watered with blood, lotara, baseliner girlboss captain of the conqueror, XII legion, going about her business in Betrayer and some other places like the siege books

Saturnine when?

>>95874803
right goddamn now

>>95874803
so do I have to hotglue the eagle off or...

>>95874803
out of interest do people like these?

I was curious about the melee options but they were giant and cartoonish. I think with a bit of converting they could be okay but as base models they look stupid, especially the weapons.

>>95874808
I dont really care for them. I wish terminators were this big though

>>95874095
The salamander looks really sad in this artwork

>>95874808
I don't mind the actually design of them, not the biggest fan of the praetor.
I just wish they wern't so fucking big,

>>95874808
they look stupid, just not nearly as stupid as centurions, obliterators or helbrutes

>>95874808
I like them. Just needs loincloths or pteurges because the hips look whack otherwise

>>95874808
They’re so silly that I love them

>>95874837
I wish I could be like you but that pole, axe and hammer are the dumbest things ive ever seen. What do you se in them?

>>95874682
>Rad grenade
We don't have rules for them yet; in 2.0 they were in libers. I expect them to do the same, but with Phage SR involvement.
> they don't benefit until next turn except maybe some initiative 1 powerfist
Power axes are -1i, there are probably more weapons that affect initiative.
> assumed it was impact hits thanks to GW being too retarded to name things properly
GW didn't name an RS like you would prefer and intentionally confused you?
>Both baseline melee troopers will be getting weaker and the elite ones will be getting weaker than 2E.
We know almost nothing about troops and elites, legions, RoWs, and their rules.

>>95874808
i've warmed up to GW's rendition a great deal but there's a proont that has much captured my heart
tonight i am fabricating their guns

>>95874394
>Of course it can always be some tech-priest's prototype pet project of creating Thallax+
I would sacrifice an actual child to my printer to get a Thallax-prime HQ character, it’s such a cool idea

>>95874808
i think they are alright looking

>>95874808
They are 30k version of 40k centurions.
I don't like them.

>>95874250
Update from my mechanicum box:

I’m putting these thallax together and they’re just so cool

I have no idea how you use them or what’s actually good, so I put the photon thrusters on them because that’s a sick name and they look kinda like starcannons
Also those chain bayonets are just mandatory, they look so menacing

All in all, 9/10 very fun kit to build, can’t wait to paint

>>95874882
precisely

>>95874854
To be fair, Mechanicum army is Tech-Priest in charge and whatever slaves he have with him at the moment and some other tech-priests that tagged along.
If you want to use Thallax model as your HQ, just use him as custom Archmagos. This guys come in any shape and form, we have Decima who is using titan tech-priest, Dryjasomething who is headswap of normal on abeyant, Scoria who is scorpion with bad touch and we had guy who was jar in brain with emergency teleportation device inside robot body. Your Tech-Priest can look however you want, body of combat cyborg is good for combat oriented tech-priest.
Making Thallax HQ make no sense unfortunetly, just by virtue of what they are, slave stormtroopers of ordo reductor, they serve reductor magos.

>>95874804
ENTERRRRR

>>95874853
I think i would like these dude much more if they were scaled down to be a bit bigger than a regular termie, keepingh the head the same size and just adjusting it to fit appropriatly to the new scale.

>>95874892
I envisioned a thallax prime as a centurion equivalent, maybe even actively prohibited from being your warlord

He’s the lieutenant for a thallax maniple but is still just as subservient to the magos reductor

>>95874901
>Sedivalle
I like a lot of his stuff, but this is a bit silly.

>>95874808
My dude, look at this Space Marine for a moment.
The whole setting is inherently silly.

>>95874913
if you basically slashed the abdomen down a ways i think that would actually look perfectly on the money

>>95874913
>>95874922
Indeed.

>>95874936
gonna give this guy some more business soon i think
little bit of manipulation in the slicer and those would be so fucking on-point
worthy go-to proontmarine

>>95874913
Everytime I see these models i feel like the creator is just making them as a comeplete joke.
Has he ever spoken about people critique of them?

>>95874945
they're very stylized and not intended to gel as they are with other stuff
i actually find them alarmingly on-the-nose in how unsettling they look to the extent his saturnine terminators are basically my favorite models ever

Is there any difference between the 40k and 30k thousand son models

>>95874808
I think they're pretty sick. Hoping that the Saturnine Dreadnaught will eventually get melee weapons once it comes out in a solo kit, as it stands I think it only has ranged arms in Saturnine. I can only assume they'll do it the same way they do each other dreadnaught, with two different boxes each with different weapon options.

>>95874901
>>95874913
Th problem I have with 3d sculptors is that they're so hell-bent on making their own proportions that don't necessarily align with the rest of the game. You can make the argument that since HH is basically Space Marines: The Game this is a moot point, but fielding them next to official figures make them stand out pretty quickly. I understand that doing a one-to-one copy is most likely a shortcut to getting slapped with a C&D, but damn. If you opt for these you basically have to go for the entire range, and not mix kits... at least for the bodies and arms, I reckon.

>>95874808
The main issue I have is the joint between the weapon and the arm. Just like Dreadnoughts, they look too thin.

Besides Siegen, what were the Imperial Fish Legion better at than the Ultramarines legion?

>>95874980
The joint is fine, but the fact that they're basically walking around A-posing all the time is so egregious.

>>95874983
Templar-y Crusading
Void warfare (Ultramarines got creamed in their heresy space ambush, Fists manage to inflict more damage on the traitors than they themselves took in theirs)

>>95874983
Dying

>>95874983
Martyrdom, bolter discipline, suffering building character, martial valor, zealous devotion.

>>95874808
No, the size creep is getting ridiculous
>Saturnine Dreadnought is fuckhueg

>>95875035
What business does the new terminator and dreadnought need to be bigger than 40k's shit
>Incoming size revamp in 6-8 years for all armour types again

>>95875035
I don't understand the need for the saturnine dread.

A) it looks horrible; B) it serves no in game purpose that a leviathan or deredeo can fill; C) why the fuck do we need another dreadnought

I reckon they missed a shot by not updating and including the Castaferrum. Woulda sold like hotcakes

>>95874983
Showing up

>>95875046
All terminators should be as big as the saturine

>>95875035
>we are going to see an Ultimatus-pattern Dreadnought in our lifetime
>a hidden pattern developed by a hitherto unknown secretive tech-cult and approved for use by the Emperor himself in the very last second of the Heresy before he teleports to fight Horus, these Dreadnoughts were instantly made available for every single Legion at the same time. Standing one marine taller than an Imperator-class Titan, it uses an entire squadron of marine-nuggets thinking and working in tandem in order to motivate the machine to move and fight. It also uses technology from darkly heretical and possibly xenos origin, including Apocalyptus-Pattern Octobolters, Terminus-Pattern Oblivion Rays and Cataclysm-Pattern Shatterstar Colliders.

>>95875082
>Ultimatus-pattern Dreadnought
>Low price of $400USD/£294/$1299 dollary-doo's
Are these the man made horrors beyond my comprehension I was warned about

>>95875086
I got one better for you: in typical GW style, each piece of the kit is ordered separately and cost as much as a centerpiece model.
No, not just the weapons like they do with Titans.
Each
Single
Piece.

>>95875117
Somewhere, a GW shareholder just shit and cum at your idea.
>Retards will still probably buy it anyway

Am I just retarded or are the front fins of scimitar jetbikes backwards?

No twin-linked this edition you say?

>>95875179
Multi-melta will be Heavy 1 but yeah. Spartans will have some 8-10 lascannon shots then, no?

I caved in and bought both of them

>>95875182
there's no way multimelta is heavy 1 now that armorbane just makes it go from strength 8 to strength 9 with only 1d6 pen.

It'll be heavy 2 if twinlink is gone.

>>95875187
It was Twin linked in 2.0 to make up for the Fack that it was a 24" range heavy gun, which forced it to fire snapshots for a turn if wanted to have anything in range.
But now Heavy doesn't devolve in snapshots when moving, so twin linked on MMeltas isn't needed. So they go back to the 1.0 profile, effectively now with relentless

>>95875187
oh sorry, multimelta would be worse than strength 9, as strength 9 only needs to roll a 5 or 6 to do something to a tank, strength 8 with "armourbane" doesn't even get a glancing on 5, so it's significantly worse.

>>95875189
the 1.0 profile was able to penetrate armor, it no longer can. It lost d6 to every shot, it's going to be heavy 2.

>>95875117
Speaking of Bits and Kits - has anyone ordered from them before?

>>95874729
There's no full novels, but you can find short stories and plotlines with normie humans across the books.
You can find them mostly in the Calth/Shadow Crusade and Siege stories. But they also appear in other parts like Molech, Nemesis, or the AL covert ops stuff with civvies.

>>95875193
I have, they're fine. The person running the site seems to be a bit special though.

>>95874808
No, Saturnine is fucking retarded and unfluffy. The termies should have been a new dread pattern for half crippled marines, and the big dread should not exist.

I've always wondered, what are the red gemstones typically seen on Space Wolves meant to signify? Some sort of battle honour?

>>95875196
https://gofile.io/d/dnrxvV

>>95874983
void warfare and probably zone mortalis

Have the full Libers leaked yet or are all the anons bitching about how horrible some units are just talking out of their ass as usual?

>>95875193
I ordered from them years ago and had no issues. Don't know if they have changed tho

>>95875251
The latter.

>>95875193
I once bought a few skullcrusher helmets and they never arrived. They didn't answer a single email about it either.

>>95875258
I figured

>>95874729
>>95875196
A Thousand Sons also has great vignettes of common humans living along astartes before and during the burning of Prospero

>>95875182
>Spartans will have some 8-10 lascannon shots then, no?
Gravis might be something else entirely, like. TL might even be a liber rule for all we know. They've done retarded shit like that before
I really don2think we are going to see 20 HB shots coming out of a rapier unless they go up in points a lot

>>95874729
Liar's Due is a short story about a world falling to Horus without a single space marine

>>95875239
It's never been elucidated. I personally think it's the inspiration for the Eye of Aversion that appears in the SW books.

>>95875050
yeah, i don't get it. With the terminator you can tell that they wanted to cater to some false nostalgia about saturnine, but the Dread? instead of using the Lucifer or Furibundus they decided to make a primaris Leviathan.

About to start the stripping process on my Word Bearers tanks to repurpose for my Iron Warriors whilst I'm waiting for the oils on my Typhon to dry

>>95875184
what weapons will you build them with?

>>95875191
>>95875192
How the fug does that make sense? Melta's go through almost everything, it's their whole deal.

Feels bad that Shrouded is just inferior version of Feel no pain now...

>>95875184
You don't even know the rules anon. It's not a good sign when the pre order is out before showng them...

>>95875279
Meltas penetrate less often, but do catastrophically big damage when they do

Lascannons do 1 damage when moving and 2 damage stationary

Meltaguns do 3 damage normally and 6 damage within half range, more than enough to one shot a predator and only two to kill a knight

They’re a lot more all or nothing, but when they do get through armor they’ll delete things. 10 TSS with meltaguns are no joke, multimeltas are likely scary too (on thallax especially)

>>95875279
'Their whole deal' is what ever GW wants it to be at any point. Like all the other stuff the change on a whim...
Meltas look like they are going to be the optimal anti terminator and dreadnought unit this time arround. Anons are bitching too much too. They are still pretty reliable against anything that isn't AV14
And from the lass canon profile we've seen it looks like they intend to make vehicles more resilient overall. It's not like lass canons are that much better in that situation

>>95875239
Just a trinket, they're big into that stuff. That and painted runes on their armour.

>>95875295
It’s almost like they want to reward melta squads for getting into side/rear arcs, where they’re dramatically more likely to kill a vehicle in one volley

If the biggest complaint we’re getting is: “I can’t one shot AV14 front vehicles turn 1 without moving with meltaguns” then I think we don’t have a lot of bigger things to worry about

>>95875179
8 heave melta shots per Achilles?

>>95875239
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wulfenite

>>95875284
>>95875184
The funniest move by GW would be if they release rappers now before 3.0 rules come out, then when they do all the current rappers are garbage/overcosted, but you can buy some shiny new rapier set later which is better.

>>95875191
armorbane makes glancing shots pens, melta rule gives double damage and armorbane withing 6” range. So, you pen Leman Russes at 6 only at short ranges.
It is highly possible that Multi-melta and some tanks guns will get Heavy (RS)

>>95875277
good luck with the process anon

This channel keeps posting high effort content without rage bait or eceleb shit, I love it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6E6J4Wy8iKA

Are there any comparison shots between the Kratos and Baneblade (not Fellblade)?
Are there any conversions that swap their turrets?

>>95875320
On one hand,it feels stupid that we got rulebook like a month before all libers get released because now we're just left second guessing without any additional info

>>95875330
common with leaks.

Did some basing with some of the new stuff I bought. I think it looks good but it's gonna need some Drakenhoff Nightshade to knock it down around the edges. (This is AK Snow paste + their microballoons)

>>95875320
>melta rule gives double damage and armorbane withing 6” range
Or X damage within half range
Or double damage with in X" range
Or X damage within X" rage

>>95875277
what was the red that you used and how did you apply it?
It's definitely a shame your stripping them, they're very well done.

>>95875330
Isn't it fucking great to have anons writing off all super heavy vehicles because of Meltagun TSS in droppods when we don't even know their profile, or if TSS can even get drop pods or if drop pods even use the deepstrike rules?

>>95873953 (OP)
>TQ
I wonder how many would buy a plastic warhound if it was under $500

>>95875360
Jumping to conclusions and panicking is par for the course in Warhammer communities

>>95875363
They would be permanently out of stock

>>95875354
Black undercoat, Gal Vorbak Red, then a transition to Word Bearers red, all through the airbrush. Thanks for the compliment anon, I'm probably just going to do the Kratos and Spartan for now because my IW need them and I don't really care for my WB anymore.

>>95875328
It's pretty nice to see. Captures the magic of the game mich better than the millionth competitive batrep.

>>95875363
A plastic warhound wouldn't even be that expensive. I assume they haven't done it cuz it's not something people usually play with. It works in HH but not really in 40k

>>95875277
>About to start the stripping process
Are you sure, anon? Those tanks look lovely, and you would be loosing an army you had put time into already.

>>95875397
it would probably be good for GW just to force people to up their points to 3k or whatever limit needed to fit one in

>>95875363
I'm not sure models that big would work on plastic. They'd need each panel broken into dozens of pieces just to fit in the moulds.

>>95875400
We already got the Fellblade for that

>>95875397
40k needs apocalypse like the 4th edition book that doesn't use a completely different ruleset that won't get updates like it happened last time.

>>95875409
Modern 40k exists solely to serve tourney groids and other vermin,it's built from ground up to be like that

>>95875414
Truly Cruddace needs to die.

>>95875348
i think it is X damage and armourbane at half range, i looked again at the community article and its says that meltagun is melta (6). Now i am more sure that multi-melta will be the same but with double the range and Heavy (RS)

>>95875397
there's been rumours since Covid of it happening and I suspect it was on the cards before then but now China trade is fucked it won't happen because GW can't use their cheap facilities out there and be confident of low tariff and shipping markups. IIRC one of the recent KTs didn't even use chinese terrain sprues so that's a turn about. There's also a lot of issues with design so that it could be deconstructed, but they could have worked that out years ago.

>>95874085
There was an upgrade to thallax that did something similar in 1.0, they gain Rage and Rending but may not swap out their lightning guns.

>>95874629
Thallax aren't bonded cybernetica, they are cyborgs made by the ordo reductor.
>>95874611
Highly likely for a reductor cohort to be near titans considering most legios were on the frontline of the great crusade and so was the ordo. Less likely to be subordinated to the legio but thallax were used as bartering a lot so not unlikely that the legio might have their own from that.

>>95875432
>China trade is fucked
How so? GW is UK not US.

>>95875449
US tariffs mean everything China does will cost more for everyone anon

>>95875422
There's no way to tell bc they went and used the one gun with 12 range and 3 damage
Bigger meltaguns could be the exact same profile but with more range since 6D at 12 or 18" starts being pretty OP.
But having an X on the melta rule wouldn't really make sense if it doesn't change with different guns.
Who knows, X might be the range. And multimeltas still only get the rule if they are equally close

>>95875459
That's not how it works. All the shit they sold to the US they have to shill to the rest of the world now. That doesn't make the orice go up

>>95875467
those companies have to make the same profits when their biggest importer puts a markup on goods, that absolutely puts prices up across the board, stop being retarded.

>>95874808
Dunno about every single person on the planet but me and my group don't like em and that's enough for me.

Anyone know if alpha legion headhunter kits fit on mk3 marines or are they mk4 only

>>95874803
Soon...
Wilph is updating his saturnine as we speak (I think)

>>95875409
They don't even need that. Warhounds are just 750p in HH and taken like any other LoW. Idk why they have to be so expensive in 40k desu

>>95875512
Because 40k hates fun

>>95874808
I think they look good with the melee and disintegrator, it's a shame that the plasma will probably be the best option though since it looks kinda bad. Think a lot will depend on the poseability though

>>95875459
Trade deals between China and UK have nothing to do with the US my dude.

>>95875512
To be fair 3000 points games are way more common in HH than in 40k.

>>95875399
Eh, I'm probably not going to bother with the WB again. Tanks are quick and easy to paint and since I don't want to pay for them again I'm more than happy to strip what I already own.

>>95875504
That's just a centurion

>>95874168
If terminators have the vanguard rule (and it fits their fluff to have it) then they are excellent at grabbing objectives because they score you more points when they do it.

>>95874344
> Ordnance weapons get higher AP if they don't move
> Knights will likely count as stationary even when moving
I think battle cannons are back on the menu

>>95874473
GW is trying to get rid of rerolls because their 'crack' research teams says that's how you lower the time spent on the game

>>95874562
Very based

>>95874808
No they look like shit

>>95875473
They'll increase prices... for the US, not for the rest.

>>95875573
I mean if you look at current 40k that rings true.

>>95875077
The saturnine dread you mean. Troonscale 54 mm is done, let's go to straight classic greek scale.

>>95875590
No it's fucking not, 40k has rerolls galore

Why do people like rerolls now? Most of the last decade everyone shat on 40k for retarded shit like
>I reroll my failed to-hit rolls
>I reroll my failed to-wound rolls
>You reroll your failed armour save rolls
>You reroll your failed invuln save rolls
>Thanks to my stratagem I reroll everything again
>Thank to yours you get to do the same
>Special rule? This requires another dice roll
and praised HH for having waaay less rerolls. 2.0 even went as far as having certain abilities trigger on the other rolls to avoid rolling more dice than really necessary which I thought was a pretty clean and elegant way to implement that stuff and I say this as someone that despises 2.0.

>>95875590
Yeah, and AoS did the same thing as well before 40k.
Rerolls help add variance to a shit little d6 based game where you barely have variance. They are further handicapping their design to chase a crowd who is never going to buy into the game anyway.
You already have to build, paint, base, and then physically travel (or have someone physically travel to you) to buy any GW game. The time investment is already gigantic. But it's the rerolls slightly extending the length of a game, THATS what's keeping people out!!!
> Ib4 tournament players
They can all die

>>95875595
...that's the point. It has rerolls oit of the ass and plays like a snail because of it.

>>95875610
they don't actually like them, it's just tourists trying to get cred by shitting on stuff they don't understand

>>95875503
They'll fit on any of the old(good) style legs, i'vew seen pleople use tthem on the old csm legs so you'll be golden.
the only thing you may want to do is add a bit of greenstuff between the torso and legs if you not happy with how they're sitting.

>>95875623
That just has to be it.

>>95875611
Rerolls are shitty no matter how you try to frame them

>>95875503
Yes, my headhunters are on the old mk3 right now.

>>95875610
I don't like them but I also don't think twin linked needs to go, they just need to be rare.

Have Lightning Claws rules leaked yet?

>>95874729
Legion by Dan Abnett

>>95874045
Based Megadrive enjoyer

>>95875437
>>95874085
But they had a heavy chainsword bayonet access

>>95875610
I've literally never seen anyone complain about shred or hatred or TL before
Where the fuck are you all people coming out from?
Don't even try to compare that to the retardation that is 40k. They are nowhere near the same thing

Is ur angus prepped for HQ spam meme galore in 3.0?

>>95875611
The last thing 40k and 30k need is to copy AoS even more.

>>95875473
That's not how it works you dumb fuck
When covid closed international trade china was flooded with unsold shit and they had to make whole new platforms like temu to give it away at production cost just to get rid of it

>>95875815
I hope covid burned chyina's profit because they literally cooked that up in their wuhan lab with faunci's permission using american taxpayers money.

anons how do i acces this folderh6UWVBQT#0HcYrSCiXG-dfmYV5aSplQ

>>95875880
shoo shoo GW intelligence division

>>95875839
>using american taxpayers money.
Nice.

>>95875891
nah fr i have not the faintest clue

>>95874808
I'm ambivalent about the design, but the size is stupidly big. A marine should not be taller than a primarch.

>>95875880
use this to decrypt it
https://www.base64decode.org/

>>95875905
The marine isn't bigger. Are you mad leviathans are bigger than primarchs too?

>>95875839
Built with America money, to make America money.

>>95875880
Make america great again but slightly diferennt and in new zeland.

>>95874808
no

>>95875946
Extremely.

>>95875839
chinamen doing nasty shit with wild animals was bad enough, but I hope that you all subhuman nurgle cultists finally win the cain award you deserve one day for causing so much unnecessary death and suffering with your polbrained and chilsdish bullshit

>>95875960
Then die in a trench.

>>95875906
thx anon

So combat vets with pistol/ccw of some sort and a Chaplain charging into a WS5 target:

2.0 - 4 attacks, avg 3 hits after rerolls
3.0 - 2 attacks, avg 1 hit with +1 to wound

Big oof, melee gonna need some big buffs somewhere

>>95875965
The lack of loyalist DG in the fluff or the game besides Garro is a missed opportunity. What happened to his buddies in the Eisenstein? What about loyal DG outside Isstvan III?

>>95875983
We have no idea about the melee weapon stats. They would have extra attacks on their profiles. Though I do agree removing the extra attack for charging and for having two melee weapons is pretty dumb.

>>95876002
>What happened to his buddies in the Eisenstein?
They worked for Malcador the Siggylight and those who survived defended Terra during the seige.

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/The_Seventy

>>95876002
his buddies from eisenstein were just locked in a prison on some planet's moon because they weren't trusted by the imperium, where they probably all die to the incoming traitor invasion forces.

Garro is salty about it when he is let out of the prison and inducted into the new grey knights serving Malcador. The sigilite is willing to allow Garro out because he has a special set of skills that makes him more useful, but the ordinary deathguard tactical marines are not seen as valuable and get left.

>>95874217
>Fuck I just wish they didn't keep the awful 2.0 WS table. Why does basic troops (let alone non marine stuff) have to just be completely and utterly fucked when facing a unit with +1 WS?
Because it's a D6 system and that comes with limited ability to represent the magnitude of difference. And there is significant difference in just a single point of WS. One point of WS is the difference between a guardsman with a bayonet and a hypno-indoctrinated Space Marine. One point of WS is the difference between a freshly minted Marine and a centuries-old veteran of dozens of campaigns. It was always dumb that being supremely skilled had no mechanical benefit to your defence in the game, that Joe Inductii could go up against an elite veteran of the Great Crusade and be just as likely to hit him as the veteran's peers were, all the 2.0 WS chart did was fix things so WS was as relevant to survivability as Toughness is - which it should be, there should be room in the game for units that aren't harder to kill because they can tank damage but because they're just that much better than (you).

>>95876002
Carrot is in like a dozen novels where he's the protag in most of them

>>95875184
>sold in kits of 2
>support detachment has 2 rapier slots
>have 3 rapiers?
>fuck you, get another detachment
>got a character to join the unit to buff them?
>fuck you, only one gun gets any buffs, if even that
>am I jumping to conclusions to be mad at things on the internet?
>yes

>>95876065
we're not talking about discworld though

>>95876075
rapiers come in squads

>>95876075
Buffs on rapiers? Like the Artillery Command Section SA has that rules as written couldn't give their buff to the guns, and GW never bothered fixing it.

>>95875284
>>95875307
Buying units for rules is pathetic

>>95876097
Even in 3.0? Have they confirmed it?

>>95874964
>make them stand out
So, likely the whole reason people chose that sculptor's work in the first place? There are literally dozens of creators out there churning out endless 1:1 matches for GW slop if that's what you want - as pointed out previously LoggyK had pretty much spot-on versions of nuMK2 available for a fucking *year* before GW got around to releasing plastics - so why are you pissing and shidding and farding and crying because a small handful of them make stuff that caters to different taste? I don't like the work of creators who "fix" the proportions of stuff to be completely "realistic", I think that style looks spindly and inappropriate at this scale, but I don't spend my time looking for excuses to shart that opinion out into random discussions because who fucking cares if someone else likes a different style to me, I'll almost certainly never meet them and if it really bothers me I can just politely decline to play them.

Wait so Rites of War are gone now or wat

>play thousand sons pyrae
>my entire army explodes when it dies
your move space wolves

>>95876112
Love Loggy

>>95876129
nice move hot head

>>95875196
>>95874729
Legion is a legitimately good novel and it's a tragedy that the shitty way the Cabal, Perpetual, and Alpha Legion plots were developed in subsequent stories has led to people shitting on it. 90% of the story is Imperial Army spy thriller shenanigans with some Space Marine and warp-fuckery flavouring.

>>95876118
Wait for the libers release, there's no info either way atm

>>95876063
Watch them balance it with WS inflation in elite units

>>95876138
100% agreed. Lots of good ideas but wasted in later books. You can tell there was nobody to put order and make BL writers to stick to coherent plots, so we ended with the stupid mess in the Siege and Abbnett being both a coward and self indulgent to the extreme in TEATD.
Shit like pic related or Erda was unforgivable.

>>95876138
Dan Abnett writes humans really well, the disgraced high ranking imperial officers plot in Saturnine was kino

UPLAND TERCIO HOOOOOOOOO

>>95876166
Who's an edgy boy, WHO'S AN EDGY BOY THEN. You are. Oh yes you are. Have a lickle treat edgy boy here (you) go.

>>95876174
Thanks; for me its John French and ADB. Fuck all the other writers and fuck (You)

The e-gimp is acting up again

>>95876169
>UPLAND TERCIO HOOOOOOOOO
That was sadly both kino and a bad story at the same time.
>attempt to explain the 40k legend of the lone guardsman with a cynical army vet during the Siege
>the notCadian with a volkite charger in the art doesn't match the notVostroyan with a kepi andh a combi-lasplasma gun in the text
>make him the only one besides Big E that can see and make blush Jenetia Krole (!!!)
>have a last stand against Angron that nobody saw
>make him redundant anyway by making Oll Persson being the actual lone guardsman after all like it was always implied
abnett can suck a dick for this bs

>>95876211
I think it was peak schitzo and I liked it

>>95876236
Saturnine is saved by cool shit that happens and the characters, but once you examine it in detail there's also a lot of the usual Abnett's lore breaking bullshit and disregard for other writers work. Like naming it "Saturnine" while ignoring all the stuff about the Saturnine ordos, the SA, and the early Salamanders.

Not that FW/GW aren't just as retarded, like naming the IF decurion "Sagittar" instead of the fucking obvious SoH one.

>>95876166
>too much of a pussy to quote the person he's shit talking

>>95876166
You don't belong here, go back

>>95876279
Because it's about the Saturnine gate not Saturn

>>95876304
yes, that's what the book said. It's still stupid and a missed opportunity to name that book with that name instead of a novel about the 3rd key faction during the creation of the Imperium

>>95876295
It was more of a generalized jab at anyone praising Abnett. Also fuck off Abnett write better books
>>95876301
>Posting slop compared to pic related
Im going to shit then go to bed; I dont want to see any mental gymnastics of abnett praise

>>95876346
you're trying to hard.
Also everyone knows that Chris Wraight is the best HH writer

>the HH gacha game adding new art of Jubal Khan in MkIV armour out of nowhere
hmm

>>95876366
Chris Wraight and ADB are pretty good.
Abnett is a mixed bag but Know No Fear is one of the best books in the series, and I say that hating Ultramarines

>>95874808
No. On top of looking bad their design is contrary to all the new infantry and they're ugly.

>>95876396
oh no he's hot

>>95876179
French is only good in short stories (where he is really good), and ADB had just one good novel (First Heretic).

>>95876438
Betrayer was mostly decent

>>95876442
There were some moments but most of it is a fan fiction level or worse.

>>95873968
No mechs are ugly. We are body positive with our giant war machines. They are all hecking cute and valid

>>95876346
>Bowden
>Best
Are you fucking serious? He's the guy who is such a chaos apologist that he writes imperials as Grimderp morons just to make chaos look less bad

iron hands are cool

>>95873971
Personally I like how there's now a reason to take plain Centurions instead of upgrading every single one into a Consul since Centurions are supposed to be far more common in the fluff.

>>95874808
Saturnine look fuck ugly and they are the reason I absolutely won't buy the box. MK2 is alright. I also don't need the disintegrators because I like the classical weapons (boltguns, plasma, melta, flamer, even volkite) and think we have enough already (volkite could have kept its pre-modern alien deathray role but they had to integrate it into 40k with primaris for no reason, so I guess now they need some new death-ray).
I also have enough MK4 dudes already; the pattern I like most, some MK3 which I like much more than MK6, and like half a BaC box of MK4 frames left to do for whatever may happen.
Guess GW doesn't get money from me too soon. I won't buy the book, but to be fair I only bought one red book so far and skipped 2.0

>>95876647
They're just aping the bits of other factions like how primaris have stolen both stubbers and volkite.

>>95875764
The devs are too retarded to think for themselves. Would be nice if the games copied the double turn though.

>>95876680
Fuck that shit.

Would it be blasphemy to use some of the bodies of my rapier crew as simple tacticals or weapons team guys?

My blackshields aren't picky and some of them may just be using picked up armor

>>95874562
The game is called Horus Heresy, MK1 is even pre Crusade and basically a He-Man game. Meh.

>>95876790
Not blasphemy but at 3 usable bodies per box it's gonna be super inneficient money wise.

>>95875409
Has anyone from GW said why nu-Apocalypse got abandoned so fast?

>>95874808
All I need from them is being piloted by nugget marines. No arms, no legs just quadruple amputees that are utterly helpless outside of their armor

>>95875549
Just paint them as your dudes. Because in 5 years you'll want to switch it up again

>>95876396
Isn't jubal Khan 40k not 30k?

>>95876801
I'm gonna have the guards/other techs be extra bodies I have in normal armor. Why NEED that specific armor desu, if a marine has the knowledge he'll fill the roll

>>95876826
There's two

Has leaker anon already shared the unit type rules ?
If not and if you're still out there :
Could you please share how Primarchs and dreadnoughts work this edition ?

>>95876860
primarch and dreadnought rules are probably in the libers

>>95876807
I don't think they've said, but it was definitely covid

>>95876807
Probably because it's a niche mode that very few can play and changing it to need its own datasheets instead of using 40k's was a death sentence since it would require an update every time 40k gers new stuff.

>>95876680
fuck you. Double turn is so retarded no game on the planet except smegmar does it. If going 2nd is a disadvantage, give some reliable benefit like +1 reaction to the 2nd player, not entirely randomized gambling turn shifting bullshit.

>>95876063
this is true. D6s are truly dogshit. The first time you play a game of Infinity using D20s it's like "how have we been doing this wrong all this time?!"

Going from 2+ to 3+ or 5+ to 6+ in D6 is entirely game-breaking, so GW is entirely handicapped.

In D20, having armor 11 instead of armor 12 isn't suddenly taking 100% more or less damage, there's so much better balancing and design space.

>>95874246
Why did they split and already thin book?

>>95876989
because fuck you

Terrible photo but about to fight stone gauntlet, wish me luck.

>>95877045
good luck birdo

>>95876989
New datasheets, war covenants and upgrades
Trust the plan

>>95874884
yeah i started building my box recently too and it's been pretty good so far. Tech thralls are a lot of pieces and some of the poses are easier than others, but they were at least easy to get a decent paint job quickly. There are enough that you can get into a rhythm with them build/paint wise.

>>95877045
That drop pod looks excellent Sir. Veterans inside? What loadout?

>>95876989
It's not thin anymore since they let RoboRosewater write the rules

>>95876063
>Because it's a D6 system and that comes with limited ability to represent the magnitude of difference
Crunch me this, Abstraction Man: I want marines to not be like mortals when fighting Veteran marines. Veterancy is good, but not that good.
Let one level difference in WS3.0 be a single benefit of difference (+1 to hit) instead of two differences (+1 to his AND -1 to be hit).
ESPECIALLY now that Instant Death is gone, so elite marines aren't so desperate in hiding from every single S8 hit.
Marines can survive being hit on 4+ by mortals and hit them back on a 3+, just like elite marines can survive being hit on a 4+ by basic marines and hit them on a 3+.

>>95877045
Are those 3D printed Rhinos or something? The details look all off.

>>95877045
damn can we get a close up of the freehand on that drop pod, looks fucking awesome

>>95877049
Thank ye

>>95877058
Thanks ha. Mor Deythan and Maun, 4 combi volkite and 5 shotguns. Charnabal Sabre.

>>95877084
They are, FDM because I'm not paying real money for a 35 point trooper spawner. Filler primer and ironing made them come out surprisingly well.

>>95877150
Prepare to be whelmed. I painted this in 2011/2012 ish. It's one of two real drop pods I own that I've used since.

>>95877282
>I'm not paying real money for a 35 point trooper spawner.
Did you pay money for the drop pod? Because that doesn't look proonted.

>>95876179
>for me its John French and ADB
Of course it is, what other authors with someone with such shitty taste prefer than a piss fetishest and a beanie wearing cuckold?

>>95877323
No, like I said it's from 2012ish and one to two real ones I own. I suppose I should have added "anymore" to my statement. I have plastic land raiders etc. I just printed 6 drop pods and a dread pod. Those I ain't shelling out for.

>>95877324
Anon you've been obsessed with piss ITT for years now, you're not allowed to call anyone else a fetishist

>>95877066
>Veterancy is good, but not that good.
It really is though. We're not talking about normal scenarios here, we're talking about the equivalents of a guy fresh out of US Army basic training and a guy who's been fighting wars nonstop since he served under fucking Napoleon but remains in peak physical condition. WS isn't just
>Wot ho sir I say put up your sword
>Wot HO sir I say I say my sword is up en guarde to you sir
>WOT HO MY GOOD MAN LET US BUCKLE SOME SWASH WOT HO
prancing bladeskill, it's knowing that the guy your facing is using Crappius 5 issue MK2 that used to have that little hitch every time you tried to swing your weapon from the right side *because you used to wear that gear 200 years ago*, and his blade catches the light in a way you recall suggests it was poorly tempered such that if you struck the upper third it would probably shear off opening them up for a punch to the face, and that the stance they've taken is reminiscent of Old Felonius who now you come to think of it did end up in the training cadres after that spinal injury fighting the Murderbottians of Darkworlde - oh and what a campaign that was, back before the war put you on opposite sides - and he always did struggle against that little trick you learned from wossisname, that Blood Angel you both duelled for practice that time back on Terra, and bish bash bosh oops you've chopped his head off.

The new WS chart has been around for what three years now and it works fine. At some point you have to stop wetting yourself and just adapt.

>>95877374
Time for your meds schizanon, you've forgotten that we're not all one person again. Unfortunately there's no cure for the level of faggotry required to think ADB and Frenchy are good.

>>95877392
>you've forgotten that we're not all one person again

speak for yourself

if you can

>>95877558
I desperately need to read the 3.0 Alpha Legion rules to see if my army needs changes

can an armor autist explain the power armor systems, like isn't mark 4 a different archetecture than 2 and 3

>>95877579
They are

>>95877579
Mark 3 is just modified mark 2 with a bunch of heavy plates bolted to the front of the suit, with the rear plates being lightened for weight. Components from both suits are probably interchangeable.

Mark 4 is a total ground-up redesign that shares no architecture from the previous marks. It was intended as the main, standard issue suit for all the legions.

>>95877597
for being a new redesign there is a lot of mix and match, like one leg 3, one leg 4, or in combination with legion specific torsos that work for multiple MKs

>>95877579
mk3 is mk2 with plates
mk4 is a new design from the ground up
mk6 is a new design from the ground up, but designed for better compatibility with older armor parts for maintenance
mk5 is mk4 without all the fancier engineering, but is also more compatible with older parts
Info on compatibility is contradictory, as a SoH in mk3 on Istvaan III looted mk4 pants, but IH sticking a mk4 arm on a mk3 is an incredible feat.

>>95877579
MkII is overlapping plates over the power systems with armored cabling
MkIII is additional armor mounted on mkII
MkIV is brand new power armor
Nonstandard MkV is field modified power armor
Standard mkV is mass produced power armor made of sub par material with exposed cabling and excessive use of bonding studs
MkVI I'm not sure I think it's modified mkIV plating with superior autosenses and flexibility
I think mkVII is brand new armor

>>95877608
eh, can always be explained as artificer armor (in the case of your pic) or some legion-specific armor variant

>>95877608
Why do these look like malformed RT era sculpts? They are so... Irregular.

I like MK5
My favourite after 3

>>95877608
I can't believe this is the only time that absolutely bitchin' aquils backpack was ever reproduced

>>95877643
Because like most models from that time, they were handsculpted

Played a 2.5k match today
I'm starting to believe that my Krios Venator is cursed; it was the 4th game that I've used it in, and the 4th time that the very first pen it suffered ended up being a weapon destroyed. I tried for 5 rounds to roll a 5+ on Battlesmith to fix its gun, but no luck.
My opponent brought a tele libby which kinda fucked my myrms, that was genuinely cool.
My Vorax arrived turn 2, destroyed a Scorpius and a Rapier squad made up of two Quad Mortars, and blew up in such a way that they weakened a two Quad Heavy Bolter Rapier squad, so I'm happy with their performance.
I forgot about the Calix' shock pulse, which would have saved quite a few Thallax from my opponent's Sicaran Punisher, which was rocking as many heavy bolters as it could.
George Droyd, my Paragon of Metal Domitar died the usual way, charging a weakened squad of Morlocks and eating like 8 grav shots from a Spite of the Gorgon reaction.
The scenario was War of Lies, which I ended up winning, and the game overall was really fun.

>>95877643
Before the age of CAD

>>95877660
But those are from like 2012 right? Plenty of models from that time had crisp detail. Like this dude, also hand sculpted, also from that year. Other early HH models looked fine too. It's just those two, especially the master of signals.

>>95877673
Many of those metal models are misshapen from one angle or another. Photos don't really show that off, since they're supposed to show the best angles.

Also, somee sculptors are better than others.

>>95877608
It's two MkIV legs, the left one just has MkIII (style) plates bolted on top. From the rear it's a normal MkIV leg, rather than the segmented MkII one.

>>95877620
>mk6 is a new design from the ground up
MkVI is just IV made to be more economical to make and maintain. It kept everything from the MkIV it would and mated it with stuff like the dual circuitry to allow repairs with simpler parts. MkVII and VIII retained all these qualities. So, effectively, SM armour are lumped into 3 patterns: MkI, II/III, and IV+. MkX as the black sheep.

HH 4.0 starter will include mk7 marines (they were always there just off-screen)

>>95877754
4.0 will just be a cyanide capsule so people can kill themselves for being such paypiggies

>>95877754
Mk VII marines will be a set 3 resin models of SoT-era sargeants

>>95877754
with a rescaled Boxnought (a little bigger than Saturnine)

>>95877771
It's just gonna be a plastic version of Forgeworld's Mk IV dreadnought.

>>95877807
with a Primaris helmet

>>95877760
Why is that cyanide capsule x3 more expensive than a regu-
Is that a Warhammer™ Cyanide Capsule!? WOWZERS!!!

>>95877824
>Warhammer™ Cyanide Capsule
>not actually a lethal dose

>>95877849
well you have to buy enough to fill out a 3500 point army for that

>>95877754
>they were always there just off-screen)

that's always been the fluff

hell I think the original Siege diorama at WH or wherever it was used mostly mk7 marines

>>95877378
>The new WS chart has been around for what three years now and it works fine
The new WS chart has been around for what three years now and it fucking makes WS4 obsolete against WS5, and everyone has complained ever since.
For real, just try have a power fist centurion fight a Praetor and see how many dozen attacks the guy would need.

>>95877926
It only only took one.

>>95877673
that one was Finecast from the start, and it had all the resin problems; detail was a trade-off because they couldn't do detailed plastics as well back then

>>95877643
Rt sculpts used to do the mismatched knees thing for one, but the pose on the champion is just unnatural - the tactical rock is there to justify it but makes it seem worse

the master of signal is fine if skinny which was a problem for all the sculpts of that era, plus his head thing is a redo of an old RT model that had the same, plus he's in a mark that can't decide if it's mk6 or mk4, and he looks like he's one of the old cut-waist plastics even tho he's not because that was probably what they built the reference maquette from before sculpting for real

>>95877926
>obsolete

it makes it 1/3 instead of 1/2 it's literally 1/6 fewer hits grow up

>>95877988
Now it will take 3 unsaved wounds, which is 14 attacks. That's why it's no longer the same

>>95877849
I'm sure the next edition will fix that.

>>95878012
Going from 1/3 to 1/2 is literally a +50% damage increase, anon

>>95878012
Heh

>>95876807
Because it was just an excuse to move unsold stock in big boxes and because no one gave a fuck about such a retarded system

>>95878086
The funny thing is many people clamoured it (because it was basically the Epic ruleset but for 40k scale) but that was also why it died, it was never gonna be updated to keep up with 40k.

>>95878022
what have those lesser warriors done to earn their 50% hit increase

>>95878216
Pay for it in blood for already having a +33% received damage increase, that's what.

>>95877760
A $500 cyanide capsule
>>95877771
The king boxnaught
Who rules all the other boxnaughts and makes baby boxnaughts for the boxnaught hive

>>95878240
>baby boxnaughts
Bro I think Saturnine termies mog even regular Castraferrums. Normal dreads are so obsolete it's sad
They should've had proper legs since the beginning

>>95878179
nu-Apocalypse being epic but big meant it was dead on arrival. The fun of apocalypse was you just played regular 40k rules, but with a lot more shit, usually as a special occasion. Apocalypse being its own separate rules system was so retarded, like sure GW I'm gonna learn an entirely different game just to have that once, twice a year mega battle with mates.

Did they say what they'll show on Monday? Or when's the Libers?

>>95878403
Closer look at saturnine dreadnought and terminators next week, including their rules.

Wondering how much longer GW can stretch these preview articles before the pre-order.

>>95878403
Next week is all stuff from the box, both rules and lore

>>95873953 (OP)
>new vehicle rules

It's fucking over

>>95876002
Make your fucking own, maybe? This game is about Your Dudes, after all.

>>95878251
bawkses will always have a spot in any list by virtue of capability for cost
it's just sad that so many iconic models like boxnaughts, old rhinos and mk7 are being squeezed out of all systems

>>95878426
Yea, I can't believe vehicles are not borderline unusable anymore
How could they?

>>95878426
>Any of the new rules
>"It's fucking over"

Why do people keep posting these, just stick to older editions then. Engaging with something you hate this much isn't healthy people.

>>95878455
They were pretty goddamned usable in 1.0. All they had to do was bring 2.0 in line with the proposed 1.0 revisions the community sent to Warhammer World a few years back. That's all they had to do. Now they've gone and brought out 3.0 which looks to be bullshit

>>95878483
I'm not one of those people, but I got a good idea why

>>95878483
Most other people who aren't as maladjusted don't mind jumping on a new edition exclusivley

>>95878483
>just stick to older editions then!

Yeah, people try this, and it never works out outside of isolated playgroups of like 3 dudes maximum. Try doing that at your local club, see how far it gets you.

>>95878499
Do you think maybe that happens because people in general like the new stuff and you are in the minority that is just bitching about it because different=bad?

>>95878499
>isolated playgroups
That's like what most of the HH playerbase consists off though.

>>95878487
I really don't get what you all hate so much about vehicles not dying immediately the second 5 las cannons shoot in their direction

>>95878509
>Do you think maybe that happens because people in general like the new stuff and you are in the minority

Absolutely. Most people are sheep, especially when it comes to wargaming. Why else do you think the most popular historical wargame is Bolt Action, despite Chain of Command being far superior according to literally everyone?

>>95878523
There's only two things warhammer players hated the most: the way things are now, and change.

>>95878487
1 vehicle* was pretty good in 1.0. Medusa don't count as a vehicle and nobody took land raiders, Rhinos, or predators, and sicarans were rare. The only reason people took Spartans was because of armored ceramite and 10 man terminator + primarch deathstars

>>95878525
It's probably because Bolt Action has a competitive edge to it which killed the game at my LGS because of all the stupid shit people pulled.

>>95878523
>how it should work
Vehicle gets glanced and subsystems (weapons, mobility, optics, etc) are damaged, or it's penetrated and the vehicle more than likely is taken out of action (either the crew is killed, or the penetrating hit hits the ammo/fuel and the whole thing detonates). Just like IRL.

>how it works ingame
"DURRRR WHAT IF WE GAVE VEHICLES WOUNDS AND CALLED THEM HULL POINTS???"

>>95878509
I'll use 40k as an example. Most people don't like the new edition. Most don't hate it enough to stop playing the only supported edition and miss on any new units or factions released since. Bur that doesn't mean they like 10th.

>>95878523
>5 guys with javelin launchers shoot at an Abrams IRL
>if even one of those things hit, the Abrams is probably fucked

Same logic applies. This is a narrative wargame, not some retarded video game

>>95877045
Ah, fellow drop pod enjoyer, cheers

just finished mine

>>95878565
>>95878426
Hey Outer Circle, how are you doing?
Bad I hope

>>95878523
most vehicles aren't any better. Lascannons are move and shoot now and vehicles are gimped more than ever before now that instead of weapon destroyed stripping an unimportant gun, a basic glancing will reduce them to snapshots for the rest of the game (neutralizing every gun on the tank including the main gun) or immobilizing a transport which stands no chance of closing on the lalscannons running 7" backwards each turn shooting. You can remove the status at end of turn on a lucky 6, on average the tank will just stay forced to snapshot the entire game long from getting scratched by some terminator krak missile.

And high priority vehicles are worse than in the past as deepstrike is 1" with no risk of scattering ever which means if you pay for some fat kratos/cerberos/baneblade type tank the enemy spends just as much to teleport an anti-tank squad in and auto-kill it in a single turn and now has a squad in your back line.

HH3 is literally worse than 40k where at least deepstrikers have to be 9.1+" away from anything disabling any melta rule on the drop turn. It's easy to screen when a unit is denying like 20-30" diameter.

This "vehicles are good" cope is the same bullshit like "simplified not simple", it's a marketing slogan not an actual part of the game.

>>95878565
>DURRRR WHAT IF WE GAVE VEHICLES WOUNDS AND CALLED THEM HULL POINTS???
A hit penetrating armour but failing to destroy critical systems seems perfectly logical to me.

>>95878619
Cool, put it on a penetrating hit table and call it a day, like in 3rd-5th ed 40k

>>95878618
Moving lascannons don't have the damage to oneshot tanks my dude.

>>95878634
>ANTI-TANK weapons shouldn't be allowed to one-shot tanks?

Or maybe they should've just made lascannons and other dedicated AT weapons cost more instead. Have you considered this?

>>95878634
Squads of them actually can no problem. And a single glance is enough to make a tank nearly harmless.

>>95878565
>Just like IRL
Tanks are not supposed to immediately explode from 1 penetration. That's just Russian tanks

>>95878618
>fire a 120mm cannon through a tank, tears through his breach ripping it in half, kills one of the crew members, rips out the back of the tank, still is still alive
"That was a penetrating hit, the tank has 100% full movement power, 100% full shooting power and 100% full defensive power despite the gaping hole in the front of your tank"

>tank gets scratched by a 40mm autocannon that can't even penetrate the armor
"Uhoh kinda spooky, our crew has voted to go on strike until we renegotate our working conditions, this strike will on average last the entire game and we'll lose all fighting ability even though we weren't even wounded"

Yeah, it's so LOGICAL.

>>95878559
>killed the game at my LGS

Which game?

>>95878677
Bolt Action. It got strangled in the cradle at my LGS because the playerbase was awful.

>>95878618
This retarded running las cannons meme needs to stop
Out of all the dumb shit you people have speculated about this is really up there as the lowest IQ one.

>>95878618
>instead of weapon destroyed stripping an unimportant gun
A weapon destroyed meant you needed to pick one of the important guns to be destroyed.
Not that you would know, because you clearly have never played.

>>95878696
>lose an argument
"this argument that I have zero ability to admit I lost needs to stop. I'm too much of a faggot to concede when I've lost so just uhh don't say it"

>>95878643
We don't know if they are expensive - maybe wait and see?

>>95878688
Why not just kill the playerbase...?

>>95878618
fuck off you retarded tourist

>>95878587
>>5 guys with javelin launchers
>Same logic applies.
Except you don't deploy javelins in groups of 10 launchers you dumb fuck
>This is a narrative wargame
So it needs to be balanced
Also don't you dare bring realism to my space super soldiers game. Half this setting falls apart the second you are not a noguns brit

>>95878707
Because that has more consequences that giving up the game itself because the sweatiest, most disgusting net lists aren't even worth your time. Also the whole "Oh I'm going to use this Theatre of War book so all of my soldiers are fanatics now haha"

>>95878698
everyone slapped sacrificial cheap lascannons on the side, which kept the main gun firing at 100% effectiveness. Now the main gun has to snap fire for the rest of the game, rendering the entire tank useless.
If you weren't a no-games you'd know that already.

>>95878688
That's just the players. We have a couple of those locally too, they jump on any new tabletop miniature game people wanna give a shot, completely kill all interest in it by being hyper-competitive, then proceed to complain about how nobody wants to play it anymore.

>>95878704
>Make retarded claims with no basis
>Get mad that some one calls me out on them

I'm going to laugh so fucking hard when the points come out and neither las cannons, meltaguns or vehicles are even remotely playable

>>95878710
>Except you don't deploy javelins in groups of 10 launchers you dumb fuck

Damn right you don't, GW was kinda retarded for deciding that 30k legions have whole squads of 10 running around with identical heavy weapons. Seems the ideal solution would be to kill GW rules designers and fluff writers until they change it, no? That kind of pressure would work, after all.

>So it needs to be balanced

Sure!

>Also don't you dare bring realism to my space super soldiers game

3rd-5th did, though....? Are you a newfag or something?

>>95878716
Funny how lascanons suddenly turn into unimportant guns when it supports your current argument.

>>95878720
Just because you're a 50 IQ retard who should have been aborted doesn't mean it's hard for the rest of us to understand that getting 10 S9 AP2 lascannon shots per turn moving 7" is broken. The polite thing for you to do is just stay quiet in the retard corner while the adults talk.

>>95878742
It's ok to accept that you don't know shit anon

>>95878741
I know your parents dropped you and your head got smushed, but 1 of a gun is not the same thing as 10 of a gun. In fact, 10 is 9 more than 1.
You're claiming 10 lascannons is no damage, but that losing 1 lascannon is the end of the world. You're literally the laughing stock of us all.

>>95878742
>10 lascannons can't even statistically guaranteed kill a single predator when they move.
Lol. Lmao, even.

>>95878755
I'm not making claims, but using claims you have made to point out all the flaws in your pathetic trolling attempts.

You're just a single tourist having an aneurysm because everybody is laughing at you as they point out you know shit. Stay mad.

>>95878716
>for the rest of the game
We know you can do repair tests every turn and Battlesmiths do it even better.

>>95878889
Yes have fun with that, when you need to roll a 6.

>>95878889
This might be the first time Battlesmith actually looks useful without being inconvenient. Looking forward to fielding a forge lord and techmarines for what they're actually suppose to do - battlefield repairs.

>>95878902
Contrarian retard

>>95878909
You're fucked in the head mate, a roll of 6 on a d6 once per turn is a fact, and it's shit odds.

>>95878933
>Assumes nothing will have auto-repair
>Completely ignores battlesmith
What do you think contrarian means

>>95878943
>thinks the fact that some vehicles will have a special rule means every vehicle will
>implying you will have a battlesmith in every army to cover every tank

Bro what are you even trying to argue?
It's an objective fact that glancing hits are significantly more crippling now - even if you do have a access to one of those rules.

What do Cool, Leadership and Intelligence on 3.0?

>>95878618
you know right that lascannons can't glance since they have armorbane? and without libers we don't know what can of saving or way tanks use recover from status.

>>95878979
>cool
Resist pinning, suppression, and Stun
>leadership
Test morale
>intelligence
Activate wargear and interact with objectives

My favorite editions of 40K are 3.5 and Rogue Trader, I've been looking the news about 30K and I'm seriously considering building an army for the next edition. Any tips? I've never played 30K before.

>>95879017
Build for fun, play for fun anon.

Every Edition of HH has had its balance issues to varying degrees, but there are plenty of chill players out there that actually just play in the spirit of the game and have fun instead of being sweaty fucks.

>>95879017
Pick the legion you want to play (if you even want to play a legion, there is also Custodes, Mechanicum, Auxilia and others).
Then wait for the libers to come out because we don't know any rules.
Pick a playstyle for that army, buy units for that. Start small and fun, but beware that rules were written so you need a lot of dudes usually, like multiple units of 10 or more dudes, vehicles and stuff.
Look at https://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Age_of_Darkness-Warhammer_30k/2.0_Tactics/Legiones_Astartes_Tactics to get an idea what there is, but maybe some units got removed.

>>95879017
Take models you think look cool, try the game a few times at lower point values, expand from there.
It's a new edition, we all gotta start from point 1 again when it comes to understanding the game.

>>95877045
>stone gauntlet
Pure suffering. 4++/4++/4+++ and Lock Step made me want to scream. We called it a draw at the end of 4 because we were so burnt out from neither of getting a leg up until bottom of 4 in which...

The only reason I didn't lose was thanks to this madlad who in a fluke swept Pollux and Warders and tied the score up thanks to my RoW. I sacrificed the three Choosers to Pollux' i5 S10 super fist-o attack but it was worth it.

Dark Furies fizzle so hard if they bounce round one. Next game I'm dropping them.

>>95878670
Do you actually not understand the vehicle rules, Anon? The crew isn't literally stunned, pinned, or suppressed, it's just economy of rules. In order to represent a glancing blow just taking out your treads for a bit, they use the existing rules which prevent units from moving. It's even modified for tanks so instead of having mental stats to test, they can just repair it. It has nothing to do with the crew. The reason a penetrating hit doesn't disable your guns is because instead of hitting a gun, it punched through to something more structurally integral or killed a crew member (for which the others are able to compensate)

>>95879095
I'll be glad to see stone gauntlet warders as they are now gone. Such a cancer to play against.

>>95879017
Start small. Build from there. Kill 10th edition players you encounter.

>>95879098
How can you expect people to read the rules they are complaining about?

>>95879098
>Expecting anons to understand abstractions
>on Terminal Autism: the containment thread

>>95879098
NTA, I understand the abstraction. What I dislike is how pens have zero effect on crew, movement, etc. Again, I get it, but it's jarring you can rip a tank in half and it's fully operational but kicking out one camera is snap fire for all weapons.

>>95879125
It's not even an abstraction, it's explicitly written in the rules what is actually being inflicted on the tank. Morons just don't read.

>>95879098
It's pretty dumb that a hit that penetrstes directly through a tanks armour is incapable of hitting the treads/guns... that are outside the armour.

>>95879098
nta but

>The reason a penetrating hit doesn't disable your guns is because instead of hitting a gun, it punched through to something more structurally integral or killed a crew member (for which the others are able to compensate)

that sounds retarded and we both know it. clear penetration should be more crippling to a tank than a glancing hit.

I would actually prefer to recieve a penetrating hit to lose some hp on a tank rather than to get one of those crippling debuffs.

>>95879107
Yeah. I suspect the legion detachments will have unique prime benefits in addition to structure as the pseudo RoWs. None of this armywide 4/4/4

>>95879151
sure though 'glancing' hit never made any sense anyway since if a shot glances then the armour has done its job and redirected the energy of the projectile away from the interior. Hence there's really no point in reading too much into what it means in actuality, they just want a scale of outcomes to spread the lethality of ranged weapons.

>>95879159
>>95879151
>>95879161
Enough penetrations will eventually fully disable the tank. A "glance" was a consolation prize (you almost penned, try again) in 2.0, in 3.0 it's a rare hit that hampers the tank's performance instead of causing integral damage. The point is to prefer getting penned - a glance can only happen 1/6 of the time at most (if at all possible), where 5/6 of the time you're taking no damage or getting penned. Glance is just a misleading word I think since intuitively it would sound less serious than a pen.

>>95879159
>It's pretty dumb that a hit that penetrstes directly through a tanks armour is incapable of hitting the treads/guns... that are outside the armour.
It's not that they are incapable, it's that they didn't. If they did, it'd be a glancing hit.

ITT: people being cucked by GW and coping in the belief GW will give them shillbucks

>>95879161
>clear penetration should be more crippling to a tank than a glancing hit.
Loosing HP is more crippling than not loosing HP

>>95879159
It's not going through the traks if it's punching through the front plate. What is so hard to understand about that?

>>95879187
3.0 it's a rare hit that hampers the tank's performance instead of causing integral damage

its not rare, its easier to achieve than actual penetrating hit. that doesnt have any sense.

>>95879098
>"MUH ABSTRACTION!!!!!! REEEEE THIS IS IT GUYS THIS WILL BE THE PERFECT EDITION AND THEN THEY'LL STOP INVALIDATING OUR RULES EVERY 3 YEARS"

coping and seething again, anon? This is the future of HH. Welcome to the 3-year edition cycle hell that has been plaguing the rest of us for over a decade. Are you ready? We're just getting started.

>>95879216
Glancing hits are statistically more rare, as the result of the penetration roll has to be the exact same as the vehicles armour value.
A penetrating hit is anything and everything above it.

>>95879216
It's the most rare result, because you have to exactly equal the armour value and therefore it can never happen more than 1/6 of the time regardless of the strength of the attacking weapon. Arguably there are going to be be more low strength high volume shots out there, but a volkite is just as likely to glance as a meltagun is on any one shot.

>>95879194
A whole bunch of guns are mechanically unable to glance vehicles anon, and any gun with high enough strength also would be unable to glance a vehicle.

So the notion of a neutron particle giga cannon hitting a vindicator in the main turret, burning a hole through the tank and almost blowing it up, yet the main gun is entirely unaffected just is... bizarre.

>>95879249
>in the main turret,
But it didn't, it penetrated the armour.

>>95879017
Rules are now temporary but models are forever. Your current favourite faction might change down the line so don't overspend on it too hard. Allied detachments are cool. Build and convert for flavour. Convert things. Convert 40k players into dead 40k players. The Forgeworld Black Books are considered our bible but hidden among the sea of piss that is B(oys) L(ove) you can still find some interesting nuggets. Don't be shackled by rules written by people from GW that you might never meet and will probably never play in your group, don't be afraid of changing stuff or trying out other people's homebrews. Don't be afraid to stop the threadmill and play older editions with the rest of the group if you aren't having fun anymore. Not having to rebuy every book would be cheaper too. Let the games you play and the the inside jokes of your group shape your dudes. The best games are those with fewer special characters and primarchs. Militia and daemons are cool when you aren't just using your unconverted 40k armies for them. Unless it's oldhammer miniatures in which case it loops back to being cool.

>>95879249
If only a special rule existed to represent neutron weapons causing havoc and applying status effects through their sheer power... Too bad none such rule exists.

>>95879211
>Loosing HP is more crippling than not loosing HP

Losing half of of your hp and still being 100% functional

OR

Losing 0 hp but lose ability to deliver troops as a transport or severely reduce your damage potential as a battle tank

Have you even played the heresy or old 40k before or are you just pulling those arguments out of your ass?

Do you know why tyranids tyrant s10 gun that only glanced vehicles or eldar vibrocannon were
considered a cancer in 4th-5th edition?

Cause they easlity shut down any tanks by applying stunned/shaken/immobilised results on them. You dont have to destroy vehicles, you just have to render them useless.

>>95879249
I think you're underestimating what the Damage characteristic on a neutron giga cannon is going to be.

>>95879228
They will stop, though. The only reason the "3 year cycle" is in place is because the rules designers keep fucking up each edition of their games, higher ups who are more competent notice this and order them to make a new edition, and this consistently happens in around 3-ish years each time, probably because it's the same rules designers every time. Once they make something that works that they don't fuck up, we'll get an edition that'll last ten or more years. Just give GW time to sort out their internal issues and we'll get a forever edition. In the meantime, the least we can do to support that effort is buy into the new edition.

>>95879228
Oh, now I get it. You're just a 40kiddie tourist upset that HH hadn't been ruined yet.

Gonna be funny if it turns out there is no HH 4.0 after three years lol. Because most games that the specialist games team is responsible of doesn't get a new edition every three years.

>>95879261
guarantee you this is the solve for haywire and nothing else

>>95879276
Nah 40k and AoS definitely are forced into the three years cycle and relentless constant balance updates to force people to buy buy buy as much as possible. All the tournament faggots love it though and are lapping it up, constantly buying new armies each balance change, even as they complain about it.

>>95879276
>>95879277
Yeah guys, it sure is convenient that those oh-so-competent GW higher-ups keep ordering the apparently oh-so-incompetent rules design teams, because there is a different one for each game, to make new editions whenever they notice a fuckup, and this happens to make them a shit load of money each time from book sales and buzz interest. It sure is convenient it just so happens to line up with huge model releases each time. It's not planned long-term at all, of course not. They're not milking us. They're new GW, right? Kevin Rountree is just looking out for us, right? The perfect editions are just beyond the horizon, we just have to consume product and it'll finally stop!! It's just really convenient and lucky for GW that we get HH 3.0 with a huge model release almost exactly 3 years after 2.0, right guys?

Fuckin retards

I think I've reached peak contrarian where I am actually starting to like the edition and want to actively play it

>>95879313
There isn't a different team for each game idiot.

Twice is a fluke, three is a pattern. When HH 4.0 launches after three years you'll have every right to be mad. Right now you just sound paranoid as fuck.

>>95879323
>Anon is living the meme
I'm at least gonna give the new edition a few tries before passing judgement. Already own the models, so might as well.

>>95879256
ok, a weapon's high strength means it is physically incapable of hitting weapons or treads and other systems that cover the exterior of a tank. Instead of the sheer power of your projectile naturally curves it to all the plain armour plate sections instead.

Thank you for your clarification James.

>>95879261
>>95879267
I think you're assuming I am talking about a specific weapon. The giga cannon does not in fact exist anons, but if it makes you feel better, I will say lascannon, which is incapable of glancing.

>>95879323
>the final end-state of contrarianism is just focusing on enjoying yourself and not taking the minutiae of rules and/or models too seriously, regardless of what anons cry about

>>95879351
2e got incredibly stale like a year in
people didn't want to try out new forces like last edition, they just constantly played the same 3 contemptor, 3 rapier/javelin/HSS, WS5 terminator schlop over and over
anything to shake it up would be an improvement

>>95879307
Not true, GW really does just have incompetent rules designers who fuck it up every few years. Money has nothing to do with it, GW higher-ups genuinely care about the hobby and are just telling rules design to fix their mess every few years. It's not that hard to figure out. Stop spreading lies, all you're doing is hurting the hobby, MACCA.

>>95879313
Another Macca post! You're the "fuckin retard," you fat Australian bastard. HH 4.0 won't exist, you retard. I see what you're doing, you're being sarcastic. Go back to Youtube, Macca

>>95879328
THERE WILL NOT BE A HH 4.0. THERE IS NO THREE YEAR CYCLE. THAT IS A SCHIZOPHRENIC THEORY PROMOTED BY MACCA...STOP FALLING FOR HIS LIES. HH 3.0 will be good. Just buy it for it to succeed

>>95879356
If you start taking hypotheticals into consideration then anything can sound nonsensical or stupid. For example, what is the use of an Attack Modifier if all melee weapons never make use of it! Needless rules bloat, reeeeeeeee!
Special rules (amongst other rules) specifically exist to cover things that aren't well represented by purely stats alone.

>>95879356
I assumed "giga" was farcical and you were talking about the neutron cannon on the Cerebus or Falchion. A lascannon is a precision, high power weapon focused on tank killing, not just disabling. It would be aimed at center mass hoping to cause internal damage. Pens causing statuses would be way too crippling for tanks - everyone just spent a whole edition crying about how fragile tanks are and now that they're significantly improved a handful of loudmouths are whining that pens just don't feel serious enough.

Fellblades can get 2 pintle mounted weapons. It would be bitchin' to make a little base and mount a heavy bolter tarantula on the turret like a remote weapins station.

>>95879389
>GW higher-ups genuinely care about the hobby
Lmao.

>>95879386
I'm sorry your local meta was like that. Mine was pretty varied all the way through, guys just playing their favorite units.

>>95878643
>Or maybe they should've just made lascannons and other dedicated AT weapons cost more instead.
I considered this. I disagreed with it.
A lascannon could stand becoming more expensive, that is true.
But regardless of their price, or how actually rare it is for a lascannon to explode a Land Raider, I think a better, easier option, would've been to merely change explosions into 1d3 lost HP.
Incredibly easy to implement in beer & pretzel games.

Or, was. That shit is over now.

>>95879276
It's because GW is just a mom and pop shop. They can't really afford playtesters so the 3 people working on the game have to check everything themselves but it takes way more time to test than to write so they put an edition out, playtest everything and by then almost 3 years would have passed so they implement the things they've noted along the way and bam! New edition. Really wish to see them grow more but sadly I think this heresy business will never catch on which is a real shame. I can only spare so much for my monthly budget for miniatures but I always spread the word of them. If more people started supporting them then maybe next edition they will have one more person on their team.
>captcha: mhhph
Sure machine, maybe more people would look at 30k if we had cosmetics for team fortess 2.

>>95879386
There were also plenty of things about HH 2e that clearly were rushed, unfinished, or just not thought out at all. It really felt like the alpha test phase of a game at times, specially if you ventured outside the quickly established 3 dreads terminators in spartan and lascannon HSS meta lists.
The biggest joke were titans, a fucking breacher sergeant alone could tank a macro gatling blaster from a warlord titan without even a scratch.

>>95879399
Your negativity is hurting the hobby

>>95879426
NTA but it doesn't, real people that actually go outside and play games don't care as much about online hyperbole as you think.

>>95879392
Bruh its not a hypothetical, a gun being so powerful that it can't cripple systems on a tank but a weaker weapon can is just bizarre, and very much part of the rules.
Not "unlikely to", but 'physically cannot cause damage to their systems'.

I don't understand the logic behind it, and I don't just mean 'muh realism', yes that can be handwaved aside for gameplay... but I don't get the gameplay logic behind it either.

A single krak missile can effective neuter a tank for the entire game with a single glancing hit (hoping for 6's every turn to repair is fucked), but a lascannon HAS to cause repeated pens to totally destroy it since it can't do anything to mitigate it in the meantime.

>>95879397
The old vehicle damage table was fine, the problem of vehicles being fragile was not the damage table, it was lascannons having fucking sunder, making them absurdly strong AT, in addition to common lascannon users that aren't tanks (dreads and HSS's) having return fire, so a predator/sicaran shooting a dread that has even just 1 lascannon arm makes it highly likely you will cripple or kill yourself, while the dread is going to eat a wound or 2 at best.

>>95879462
Shame the only way to fix such a problem was to come out with a new edition and change everything.

>>95879462
A single pen had a 50% to make you snap shot, and a 1/6 to destroy a weapon or permanently disable the tank. A single meltagun pen had a 1/3 chance to destroy a non superheavy Lord of War in one shot. The damage table was absolutely a problem, and limiting it to only happen on 1/6 of penetration rolls is a good change.

>>95879389
>Money has nothing to do with it, GW higher-ups genuinely care about the hobby and are just telling rules design to fix their mess every few years.

Lol this is the most desperate shill/cope post Ive seen here in years.

>>95879439
It's because if penetrating hits would also cause status effects, they would be too overbearing in addition to being capable of getting +1 damage by scoring duplicate status effects. That is the game mechanical reason.
Not saying it is an elegant or intuitive solution, mind you. But I can understand the reasoning behind it.

Guys, this vehicle damage discussion (and others, like the melta discussion and the release cycle speculation) and who is the rightest is getting so ridiculous in these threads, don't you have other shit to do than getting into an argument with someone you will never meet in life? This is just a waste of energy of everyone involved and those who just lurk for leaks.
Post some models instead ffs.

>"Glancing hits are most rare and crippling for a tank result you guize, please understand this reasoning and solution!"
>armourbane weapons that are dedicated to cripple tanks cannot achieve this result

retards nogames will defend this

>>95879513
My daily responsibilities aren't engaging enough to keep my brain fully occupied.

>>95879421
Stop being sarcastic, Macca. No one is falling for this. GW is a force for good in this hobby, and without them, there would be no HH

>>95879475
Being able to semi reliably mitigate the enemy's firepower is a good part of the game, especially when vehicles were the main source of mobile heavy weapons, before dreads and landspeeders got the conversion therapy.

Meltaguns were always a case of screening - being absolutely monster AT weapons but requiring close range is fine. If you are fielding an expensive fuckoff vehicle and you don't properly support it, thats a skill issue.
Now meltas seem to be this weird super rng gun where you will struggle to actually damage their primary targets of heavy armour, but will still fucking melt them from the inside if they do (and no just delete softer vehicles extremely reliably).

Honestly just a lot of changes in 2.0 really fucked vehicles hard, but again, it wasn't the vehicle damage table, which hasn't changed in like what, 15+ years?

>>95879494
Yeah I get that, the argument is why change how glances behave at all? Previously it let you plink down tanks without crippling them, while pens plink down vehicles while ALSO being able to temporarily/permenantly degrade their effectiveness.

Future state glances are actually bizarrely strong, and arguably better than pens in 2.0, if you didn't have ap2. The ability to turn off ALL a vehicles guns for all or most of the game (vehicles repair roll on a 6+ is fucking terrible, although I am sure more expensive tanks like raiders will have better autorepair etc) is way better than a crew shaken in 2.0

>>95879529
NTA but stop trying to bring name fagging into /hhg/, if you want that shit go back to 40kg

>>95879529
Saying they are a force for good is some proper shill shit, anon.
They have a clear and cynical cycle of churning out new editions and rules to try push model sales, instead of having a good game.

Does that make them evil? No, (no more than any other corporation, at least) but it sure as hell isn't a force for good.

>>95879529
I'm not being sarcastic, I really hope that one day we might see Whores Lubrificant and his legion on the big screen. Until then I will keep supporting them and maybe one day they will get popular.

Starting to think leaker is GW…

>>95879607
No way in hell, marketing departments are way too far up their own asses to do anything more extreme than tiny drip feeds of information. They are probably holding free therapy sessions right now so those fags don't off themselves.

>>95879564
Wrong. They're the only hobby company that cares about their community. Why else would they go as far as to release plastic breachers, saturnine terminators and update our rules?

>>95879647
Money

>>95879607
Nah I've seen the ebay listings too. Occams Razor and all that.
And that carpet definitely didn't look British, it wasn't in the toiler room for starters.

>>95879564
>t it sure as hell isn't a force for good.
I'd say it is, the churn keeps things interesting.

>>95879838
I mean, it hardly affects what competing wargame companies do aside from maybe affect pricing

>>95879527
buy a vibrating butt plug and wear it while you perform your daily responsibilities

>>95879526
>>armourbane weapons that are dedicated to cripple tanks
Actually theyre designed to kill tanks. If a melta gets through there is no tank left to cripple. Piles of slag dont have status effects.

>>95879534
it depends how easy it is to clear statuses from vehicles

>>95879526
You're talking like people are only going to shoot one Lascannon at a tank in each activation. A squad of 5 will still easily obliterate a predator if they stand still (removing hull points is more serious than the new damage chart). Snap shots aren't as crippling as before, and battlesmith is significantly improved (and happens in the movement phase). Between auto repair and battlesmith you have at least two chances to fix a status before the tank even activates.

>>95879513
>Don't discuss interesting changes in the new edition
>Don't form opinions
>No text posts please

How exactly do Volkite weapons work? When you pull the trigger, is it a single "CHOOM" blas? Or is it like a continuous beam that you hold down and sweep across the enemies? And what does deflagarate look like? Does the beam "jump" from target to target? Or does it punch through a guy and hit the guy behind him like it's CoD?

>Watch two Horus Herest batreps.
>Narrative games.
>Game seems absolutely incredible.

Alright, not sure if my local scene has any HH players but damn does it look cool and if I get this new job I will happily invest in to an army. Is narrative a big thing for the game? Narrative is my preferred way of playing.

>>95879526
I played Hammer of Olympia and ran reinforced vehicles as often as possible because Stunned/Shaken was the most irritating thing in the game. One pen and your tank is useless for a round, good luck getting it to survive a second round of shooting as a paperweight. Weapon Destroyed/Immobilized and your tank is useless for the game. And all of these were possible with non-anti-tank weapons and were far more likely to happen than they're going to be in 3.0.

>>95879974
It ignites the victim violently.

>>95879974
I always assumed deflagarate was kinda like chain lightning, but idk if thats actually accurate. Maybe you superheat people and they explode or something.

I also assume volkite is a "blast" rather than a beam. Or rather it depends on the weapon. The bigger the volkite the beamier it is. Small volkite is probably almost star wars plasters, where they fire short beams or blasts of it, the big massive number of shots weapons fire a continuos stream of volkite.

>>95879974
>>95880027
The beam of a volkite weapon especially violently reacts with organic matter, making it combust explosively. That's what the Deflagrate rules is.
It is usually depicted as firing a continues beam, that can be swept across multiple targets. As to what it exactly fires or works, the lore only mentions that nobody really knows what it is.

>>95879974
It's a beam that can be held down coherently or fired rapidly. Deflegrate represents it penetrating a target into the next, being swept between targets, or igniting a target and doing additional fire related damage.

>>95879975
I'd describe the game as "cinematic". Units do what you'd expect them to, and armies look great on the battlefield. I think narrative play hinges heavily on custom missions and external work from players to structure a campaign, but the gameplay comes as close to painting cool scenes of the universe as I've seen in a modern wargame. It doesn't feel competitively geared as 40k (lol) or limited in scope like kill team (well designed game, but very little freedom of expression). It's hard to quantify but heresy just "feels good" to play to me. Thankfully I have a good local group who doesn't bring dreadnought or HSS spam.

>>95879994
>Moritat joining Tacticals

>>95880058
Anon we are in the final weeks of this edition, do not try to reignite the Bitter Duty discussions.

>>95879974
You ever seen Mars Attacks?

>>95879974
Microwave ray gun, flesh combusts and metal sparks and explodes.

>>95880058
>>95880066
Fixed in the FAQ plus he could just be standing next to them.

>>95880066
>needing to discuss something they already FAQ's ages ago

Finished 5 Deliverers to cap off my vacation of nonstop painting.

>>95880083
>>95880088
That was the joke...

>>95880090
>chainfists? pussy shit
>we just use giant meat cleavers
looks good anon, vacation well spent

>>95879974
Boltgun (Volkite Caliver) and SM2 (Neo-Volkite Pistol) both depict Volkite as a continuous beam. The former lazily just makes enemies explode without any heat-based visuals, the latter is a bit more stylized at least.

>>95880124
Thanks! Terran XIX don't mess around.

>>95880163
SM2 is also a retarded game where boltguns feel like nerf guns and the volkite weapons feel like squirt guns until they trigger an explosion on whatever enemy you're keeping the beam on for long enough. Boltgun has a single sternguard veteran killing multiple greater daemons. Wouldn't take accept either as canon.

>>95880193
That's true. Visual depictions for many weapons are truthfully kinda lacking and aren't very cemented like bolters are, no piece of media can even agree how a typical Melta fire. Necromunda Hired Gun has grav weapons even be homing projectiles.

>>95879975
Yes, or atleast, Many HH players enjoy that sort of fun gameplay.

If you encounter waac/sweaty nerds, just fucking don't engage. If you want to WAAC in HH, there's still plenty of dull, shitty, unbalanced things you can do.

The vast majority of HH players I have seen are chill fun dudes though.

>>95879974
Depends on source.
Other than that it's heat ray that when hits organic matter causes explosive combustion. Additional hits from volkite are because guy you hit just fucking exploded.
For rules to follow lore you should just put small blast marker over model that was killed by it, but it would be too much work when you can take multiple volkite tac supp squads, heavy sup squads, dreadnoughts and tanks, so you just get 1 auto hit for unsaved wound.

i'm gonna do it
i'm gonna proont an entire predator on a single plate

>>95879975
I only play a few times per year at narrative events. It'll depend on your local scene, but in my experience it's far more popular for narrative than any other GW game.

>>95879974
I remember seeing an animation where the Volkite acted like the Railgun from Quake 2

>>95875880
NTA, but I feel like a moron because even though I'm going to Make Europa Great Again (in New Zealand, for some reason), I'm being told the folder's no longer available.

>>95880436
Then it's down.
I guess putting it in top of OP was bad idea.

>>95880471
It's annoying because my broadband's only just got back to speed I can download anything, and it had that nice armour conversion guide in one of the folders IIRC.

Love that sorta stuff. Used to repose my marines back when I was a kid using a (then new, now old enough to drink) issue of WD as a guide. The only other guide so extensive for armour that I know is that one thread on B&C, and they never bothered fixing the images there once they went.

>>95880513
>>95880513
>>95880513

>>95880090
>>95880185
holy fuck they look great without the shoulder gap

>>95878588
Fucking sexy green

>>95879974
>what does deflagarate look like?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflagration

>>95880163
SM2 has plasma be a mild annoyance and melta as a short range shotgun that does low damage. I think some of its depiction accuracy can be questioned.