Why do the writers love him so much?
Why do the fans hate him so much?

Because he's a narrative tool to end the setting and remake it into Age of Sigmar, a more profitable and popular game.

Because fantasy spergs thought that a game nobody played for over a decade was a good game. You can see the kind of people that were upset, like the 9th age crowd that would go into Adepticon and smash Sigmar models as "protest". It got so bad their entire fantasy "spiritual successor" got BANNED, it was hilarious. Now fantasyspergs are paying for 30 year old metal models at modern hard plastic release rates, truly they are retarded cattle.

>>95883200 (OP)
"Fans" are jsut mad he's stronger than their favourite character
It's like when Superman beat Goku and tranime fags sperged out

>>95883251
Because it doesn't make sense, Goku regularly threatens the universe with his power, Superman jobs to a rich bald guy

>>95883200 (OP)
>Why do the fans hate him so much?
the sort of chaos hate you see here is pretty much an online only opinion
how many real people are going to still be confused and pissed off by how Storm of Chaos was supposed to have worked?
how many real people regularly confuse in and out of universe events?
Archaon's a bit boring, but had a really cool model
most guys IRL at least considered making chaos armies at some point, and so many did eventually that a few years back we did a whole Chaos wastes campaign

>>95883260
Superman fights Universe ending threats regularly, and Luthor is like, the smartest being in the DC Universe(for some fucking reason), so him jobbing to that is expected.

>>95883262
>the sort of chaos hate you see here is pretty much an online only opinion
Storm of Chaos and End Times still cause a lot of seething, and they especially did back when they were new. But by now Warhammer is a lot less popular, especially the Fantasy side, and most people don't care, either since their only exposure to it is Total War or Age of Sigmar, or because they don't care about Warhammer anymore or the shit writing anyway.

>>95883260
Supermen even having weaknesses is a retcon, golden age Sups is basically God

>>95883200 (OP)
I am a fantasy fan and I like Archaon because he has cool armor. I also just generally like Chaos, altho I much prefer monogod chaos factions to chaos undivided factions.

>>95883295

>>95883262
>the sort of chaos hate you see here is pretty much an online only opinion
>how many real people are going to still be confused and pissed off by how Storm of Chaos was supposed to have worked?
>how many real people regularly confuse in and out of universe events?

Who's edgier, Archaon or Malekith?

>>95883231
>Age of Sigmar, a more profitable and popular game.
lol, lmao

>>95883200 (OP)
In and of himself, Archaon has a dumb motive, but he's not any worse off than any other generic Chaos Champion. He could frankly be replaced with someone like Wulfrik or Bel'Akor, or a dimensionally displaced Abbadon, or even Harry the Hammer and they'd serve the same narrative purpose.

Namely, being a tool to make the setting work in Gee Dubs' favor for marketing, aka using Chaos to basically flip the table on things, whether it's giving the Chaos gods the win to end Warhammer Fantasy to get Age of Sigmar, or blowing up Cadia to make the warp bigger to sell more Primaris and Chaos Marine and Primarch models, or the Skaven crashing Vermindoom into everywhere to reset the rules, or whatever else they plan to do in the future. Cause GW is uncreative when they need to change something, they just justify it with "Chaos shits all over everything, now keep buying our merch you paypigs".

But yeah, I don't hate Archaon personally. I just think it's funny to shit on him, since otherwise he's just an edgy asshole in a long line of them who happened to be given the plot armor handjob for Gee Dubs to kill Warhammer Fantasy.

>>95883346
come on, at least post believable bait.

>>95883346
No one bought empire

>>95883200 (OP)

GW has shifted from settings to narrative and so needs a primary antagonist to set up meaningful events. It's not enough to have multiple low-stakes baddies because the conclusion is foregone. You need an actual threat of things changing and accordingly bigger baddies to push them along.
WFB Archaon is one threat among many to set the tone and create an atmosphere. ET/AoS Archaon is a plot device to justify why Sigmar opened another starter set to stop the Doomtide.

>>95883619
>It's not enough to have multiple low-stakes baddies because the conclusion is foregone. You need an actual threat of things changing and accordingly bigger baddies to push them along.
A foregone conclusion of a high-stakes baddie winning is no better than the foregone conclusion of low-stakes baddies losing. Especially when you're trying to make an open ended gaming setting, not a linear story. Makes it totally dull.

>>95883512
>huge chunks of the main AoS faction axed, surplus boxsets given away for FREE at adepticon >ToW factions coming back to life AND whole new one introduced
>bait

>95883855
>old chunk of faction that got new range release each aos edition got axed to trim the fat, for another wave of stormcasts
>meanwhile old world is just bunch of 20+ years old models with odd new resin character model here and there
>also Franz in old world never
baits used to be believable

>>95883346
>>95884055
It's fucking funny that Karl is still the default gryph build in AoS, but Old World deleted him from the kit's photos

>>95883855
TOW is likely dead on arrival and for the sake of everyone probably should be because even by the unreasonable standards of GW, the Old World is way too expensive for most people to actually play.

>>95884238
For quite long time AoS was selling "Grand Theogonist Volkmar the Grimm", despite Volkmar well dying before End Times and being super dead.
He was removed along time Old World was announced iirc.

>>95884408
GW is banking on TOW working despite WHF's recent success solely stemming from Total War. Most people don't give two fucks for the badly balanced and overpriced war game or the stupid slop fluff.

>>95885337
>the badly balanced and overpriced war game or the stupid slop fluff
hasn't stopped any other GW product

Honestly, they should ditch plot armor and go back to deciding the story by what happens in big tournament events.

>>95883855
>main AoS faction
They're the poster boys but hardly the top sellers. Amd by this logic 40K is "dying" because 90% ofcspace marines got axed and replaced. This shit is literally just Primarisigmarines which is honestly even funnier, I wish more people would bring that up instead of trying to make it a HURP GURP AOS IS DYING thing

>>95888617
Primaris are specifically super special bigger stronger marines that underwent an irreversable modification and are totally better than "Firstborn" that you already know.
New stormcast are just the same guys, but after 300 years their armory changed the uniform's details.

Narratively there's 0 of the forced obsolesence cringe that made Primaris so hated

>>95883200 (OP)
He is Abbaddon backported to Fantasy. But since they had to kill the setting he was allowed to win instead of only job endlessly

>>95883200 (OP)
Warhammer lore is so bad that It never ceases to amuse me, 40k is literally a thousand times better, no one has charisma in the blatant auto ripoff that it's age of Ligmar.

Bringing back WHFB was retarded, should have been Warmaster but as a mainline not a specialist game. Especially if they were trying to bank on the TWW crowd. They could have pushed huge armies, sold terrain in a new scale to paypigs and it wouldn't be competing with AoS so directly. On the other hand James is making what is basically free money with old molds and in some cases literally pre y2k sculpts so maybe they have it right.

Very telling that the thread has pictures from TW:WH but not actual WHFB, especially models.

>>95888674
>Primaris are specifically super special bigger stronger marines that underwent an irreversable modification and are totally better than "Firstborn" that you already know
That's literally what these guys are, idiot. They're the super duper special sigmarines from the super duper special soulforges only to be unsealed in times of dire emergency as primaris. They're literally primarisigmarines and the fact that nobody thought GW would be ballsy enough to do that twice is hilarious to me, as is the fact that GWpiggies are too caught up in their corporate cocksucking tribalism to notice.

Arche was good in FB as Atilla kind of package, it worked. He's retarded in AoS

>>95889190
Thunderstrike is literally just different armor made so that stormcast don't get fucked up by the magical shit Be'lakor did to the skies of the realms. It can be taken on and off, and isn't needed if they're not operating in those areas. If you're talking about the Ruination chamber, those guys have always been in the lore, and none of their new models replaced anything. Prosecutors got updated, and the new ones look way better than the old ones, but using the old models for the game is perfectly fine. Liberators are still liberators, regardless if you use the old models or the new ones.

>>95889190
Stop making shit up retard

>>95883346
>says the same man who squeals in joy whenever he sees the latest plastic primarch release

>>95889315
I dont even play 40k beyond 5th edition, what am I gonna do with a primarch?

>>95889411
Watches every modern GW release like a hawk
>doesn't even play
That's somehow even more pathetic than paypigging

>>95883200 (OP)
>nagash

Is anyone here even old enough to have both REMEMBERED and PLAYED Fantasy?

>>95889315
>>95889555
>I hate you for liking nu-40k and for not playing nu-40k at the same time
Pure, distilled, acrid-stinking essence of the absolute state of /tg/ you people are mentally ill.

>>95888674
I feel like Primaris are going to be used to do a "New Coke" thing where if enough people want Firstborn back they will come back, but overpriced. The Primaris entirely phasing out the Firstborn makes in-universe sense because that's what militaries do. Those periods where people had guns but still used bladed weapons and horses weren't about sentiment. But still, for the sake of being a game and having more varied aesthetics among the marines, it would be as easy as chalking it up to "Primaris are better but some Firstborn haven't gone through the procedure yet".

>>95888836
>Warhammer lore is so bad that It never ceases to amuse me
This is true.
>40k is literally a thousand times better
This is false.

>>95889985
But primaris are, tactically, worse than Firstborn. They sacrifice flexibility for "DURRRRRRR WHAT IF WE HAD TEN BILLION UNITS OF UNITS THAT CONSIST ENTIRELY OF GUYS WITH ONE TYPE OF WEAPON????" So they're actually more archaic than firstborn marines are..

>>95889872
My highschool friends played whfb 6th and 3rd edition 40k but I could only afford one army of my own, so I went with 40k. I only properly got into fantasy after it had been shitcanned, luckily a lot of the minis were still available

>>95883260
You're that seething slow-in-the-mind anon was talking about

>>95885337
I think they're late by about five years. TWW2 was exploding in popularity, and the game was getting a lot of attention, regular updates, cool new systems.
Now TWW3 is on life support because they stopped putting in all the resources for it.
How do you fumble the fucking ball that hard, CA?
Sure, listen to the people who want a new historical total war game when your golden goose, warhammer, that you have so much material for, and the opportunity to pump more lord packs, more factions, more paid DLC, and you SHIT YOUR FUCKING PANTS AND BURST INTO FLAMES ON THE FIVE YARD LINE

>>95891214
All 3 Total War Warhammer games are shit compared to Shogun 2, though.

>>95891266
this is true but warhammer tards wont have it

>>95891266
that's your opinion, and I like shogun 2 alot. I've put more hours into the warhammer series, because I try to do RP-appropriate campaigns and there's so many options for that.

>>95883296
Silver age

Golden age supes couldn't fly, only "leap tall buildings in a single bound", iconic picture is him lifting... A car (which was wildly impossible and eye-catching at the time of course)

Silver age had to ftl zip over and sneeze away uninhabited solar systems (wasn't super enough to hold a sneeze)

>>95891299
>RP-appropriate campaigns

Impossible to do when
>no seasons
>human characters do not age because no seasons and progress of time
>shitty sieges that aren't immersive
>shitty doomstack recruitment that isn't immersive
>shitty health system where enemy units will tank bullets, arrows etc for a time until past a certain health threshold they start dropping like flies. This is despite blood splurging out of them for a solid minute of projectile fire beforehand.
>building system isn't immersive, not even accurate to warhammer lore
>despite the fact that the Warhammer World has a surface area bigger than earth's, people march around on the campaign map incredibly quickly for the distances covered.
>not enough sync kills (just slap fights, even empire swordsmen will send other empire swordsmen flying into the air), whereas shogun 2 has almost every melee kill be a sync kill of some kind

The game just isn't immersive at all, nor even exactly true to the source material. It's just...lazy. Arcade-y. Game-y. For a game that's supposed to simulate the Warhammer World, I do not feel immersed

>>95888891
In an ideal world, GW would be able to do small scale models without their sculptors, who have grown fat, lazy and retarded on digital tools, forgetting what undercuts are and why they can't do them.

Luckily, Warmaster already exists, has been improved by the community, is well served by digital sculptors, and you just need to network with your local scene to find potential players.

>>95883231
>a more profitable and popular game.
Lol

>>95891372
Don't forget: No naval battles

>>95897407
Age of Sigmar has made more money than fantasy ever did. It's sadly correct.

Similar to how 3.5 ed 40k is better than 10th edition 40k but 10th edition 40k is vastly more popular than 3.5 was

>>95883200 (OP)
he's pretty inoffensive as a character (in WFB at least, idc about AOS). however, he is the BBEG of the setting, which necessitates that the writers give him plot armor and the fans get mad about that plot armor.
personally I think he looks cool and he's fun to play in Total Warhammer, so I'm fine with him

>>95891299
>RP
How? The battles are some of the worst put of any of their games and the campaign/building stuff is gutted.

>>95897470
I think the idea that Archaon is effectively the final boss of Warhammer Fantasy is part of the issue, namely cause Warhammer Fantasy is a setting where you've already got several guys who are jostling for that position already. Like, you got Grimgor, the Von Carsteins, Kemmler & Krell, Malekith & Morathi, Arkhan the Black following Nagash, the Council of Thirteen aided/abetted by Thanquol, Be'lakor, and even Chaos's other champions like Wulfrik or Valkyia or Egrimm van Horstmann. Archaon by comparison kind of just shows up out of nowhere with the contradictory "I'll stick to Fate by accepting it as an excuse to destroy Chaos by giving the Chaos gods everything they want" motive, gets punked in a retconned story campaign, and then is given the honor of being one of the last guys standing fighting with Sigmar himself over his hammer like two kids fighting over a lollipop while the world implodes.

Just saying, feels like a bit of a let down that after all the buildup, the honor of blowing up WHF is given to this rando who looks like any other out-of-the-box chaos champion over all the other possible choices.

>>95897422
The problem with your analogy is that AoS is also a better game than WHFB ever was

>>95898312
I'm honestly shocked Nagash wasn't the big baddy of the apocalypse of the setting, that's what it felt it was building up towards.
Not that I dislike Archaon or anything, but still.

>>95898412
Same. If anyone would have challenged the Chaos Gods on more even ground to destroy the Old World, makes sense it'd be a necromancer so powerful he'd become an Avatar of Death

>>95889872
It was only killed 10 years ago

>>95898312
tbf, a lot of those people don't really work as final bosses. The final boss needs to be an existential threat, not just another character in the pile, so the only real options were Nagash returned and Chaos Undivided.
I don't think the execution was stellar, but I do get why GW landed on Archaon: he was purpose-built to fill the main villain role, and their other characters weren't. Except Nagash. It could've been Nagash. Wulfric would've been fine too.

>>95897470
>>95898312
>>95898412
He was wanked to an obnoxious degree, and a lot of people were sore over Storm of Chaos (where Archaon loses) getting retconned for the End Times (where Archaon wins). He was given a massive amount of plot armor to the point time travel was introduced to the setting, where Belakor inexplicably gained the ability to reset the world each time past-Archaon lost, so more or less the fluff got written around him and in his favor. He had absolutely zero depth or personality as a character, with his entire thing literally being that he's a raging atheist, and the entire setting was changed to work around him and in his favor. Modelwise, he was also pretty damn overpowered and too cheap for how strong he was.

Needless to say a lot of people consider him a deviantart-tier edgy OC, which is where the OP meme originated.

>>95898703
His rep's sour with AoS too since the fluffwank and modelwank have carried over. In the weird marvel soup slop of AoS Archaon has inexplicably become the most powerful being existence, stronger than Nagash, Sigmar, and the Chaos gods and terrifying all of them. He can't be killed, he can't lose, no one can defeat him, and so he just "exists" in a state of invincible plotwank, while still having even less depth than your typical Warhammer character.

>>95898702
DESU, I might have agreed on about 90% of them being ill fitting for the role of "kills off the setting completely", but the only one I'm going to argue for is Thanquol. Although that's because his story strikes me as the type to end up doing what Mannfred did in the End Times proper: Try and backstab someone in the back for his self-interest at the absolute worst possible time, probably via trying to off Chaos's Everchosen or his opponent the glory of the Skaven, only to utterly doom both himself and the entire universe in the process.

Nagash or Wulfric absolutely would be the other two choices, though. I'd considered tossing in Arbaal the Undefeated as a candidate, but beyond being mostly forgotten by Gee Dubs his name is just begging to be the first one to bite it in an End Times scenario.

>>95898703
>>95898723
So who the hell is Archaon even for? Unironic r/atheists who still think namedropping Satanism to stick it to the christians is unironically cool? And what the hell does he even do in AoS?

>>95899407
>So who the hell is Archaon even for?
He is the fucking strong, that’s it. Warhammer is all about rule of cool, trying to look for depth in it will leave you bored. This is, and always will be the case.

>>95883231
>a more profitable and popular game

>>95899407
good point about Thanquol. that would be incredibly funny, but even then I think he would just be the secondary antagonist that tips things over the edge, not the BBEG that puts them there.
I'd disqualify Arbaal for the same reasons as Valkia, Egrimm, Tamurkhan, etc. - he's aligned to a specific god, and an Everchosen needs the approval of all four.

>>95891266
Shogun 2 isn’t even the best historical title, Warhammer blows it out of the water

>>95899407
How the fuck do you put wulfric on the same level as nagash

>>95899407
>And what the hell does he even do in AoS?
Officially he's saving the crumbling trashfire knowns as Chaos that might have already lost AoS without him while failing to secretly gather support for his "no gods!" vision of the world.
All while everyone that can stabs him in the back for the lulz.

>>95899481
I will note that in my opinion, "Final Boss" didn't have to equate to utterly scrubbing the slate clean. Seeing the Empire or Bretonnia smashed into pieces by a big enough force o signal that Humanity's time in the sun is setting much like it did for the Lizards, Elves and Dwarves beforehand could have sufficed. Otherwise, you're right. Too bad it couldn't have been Sigmar vs Nagash vs Chaos's final chosen champion, Harald Hammerstorm.

>>95899490
Essentially, if the story absolutely needs a Chaos champion to kill the setting, makes more sense to put Wulfrik down for the fact he's got a far better track record of unifying Chaos forces behind him as well as having the unique position of the approval/sword of damocles of the Chaos Gods hanging over his head to succeed. But that's just me, I get that it's a matter of opinion on this.

>>95899495
That almost makes him sound worthwhile.

Chaos haters are so fucking stupid and I have no idea how they even got started with the setting.

>>95898312
You could not have screamed that you were a TWW secondary more than with this post.

>>95899740
And? What are you going to do about?

Also really sick of people whining about Storm of Chaos like it's current because they watched some "loretuber" reference it in a video when there was an entire fucking DECADE between Storm of Chaos and End Times in real life. None of you niggers have any real experience of what you're talking and whining about.

>>95899754
I heard Storm of Chaos was unbalanced army-wise too. Even then, people know the entire thing was created for the same reason the End Times were, to sell bigger plastic toys. But neither really changes the fact Archaon is pretty boring.

>>95899740
It takes a bit of digging to get into all the chaos wankery in the games. On the surface it looks like the empire/imperium/order are the main character faction.

>>95900094
Elaborate, please

>>95900332
Chaos is the faction everything revolves around. /theirdudes/ are the strongest in both fluff and tabletop, and the chaos gods are straight up omnipotent, and the source of other gods, magic, basically everything, and are directly or indirectly behind everything that ever happened.

None of this is evident with a surface level knowledge of the gamesetting.

>>95901150
Seems weird that Chaos gets all the love from the writers, desu, considering their reputation

>>95901227
>rep
Well yeah they are loved

>>95901243
Unironically the only place I've seen love for chaos outside of GW themselves is on reddit.

>>95901372
maybe touch some grass

>>95901389
I don't see much love for Chaos either, it's mainly for the Chaos Warriors for WHF or Chaos Space Marines for 40k. I see mostly indifference for the demon side outside of memes, especially with the Chaos gods themselves

>>95901467
daemons kind of feel like imperial knights to me, in the sense that they're not really a "main army"; you take them in a small allied force to complement your larger army, but they aren't something you play on their own.
you put a bloodthirster with your world eaters, sure, but nobody really wants to fill out their entire FOC with bloodletters and flesh hounds. daemons just don't really have the draw for that.
yes i know some people play pure knights and daemons, but those people are wrong and having badwrongfun

>>95901467
>I don't see much love for Chaos either, it's mainly for the Chaos Warriors for WHF or Chaos Space Marines for 40k
wtf is going through your head writing this?

>>95901826
Anon, just don’t take the bait.

>>95901826
Mainly that far as I'm concerned, Chaos as a faction is boring and that if you repeated Gee Dubs attempt to sell more armies by splitting the demons away from the Chaos Warriors/Merhens, they'd still be more interesting. Probably improve a couple, like Archaon actually turning against the Chaos Gods instead of being their angsty puppet

>>95901561
>>95902116
Kinda funny that the (bad) excuse geedubs uses for chaos being so OP is that they represent very basic and generic emotions and concepts, so everything empowers them. Of course, that results in the faction being extremely basic and generic.

>>95901467
>I don’t see much love for chaos, just [love for chaos]
????

>>95902865
Basically, people like Kharn the Betrayer, but they couldn't give two fucks about Khorne or the Chaos Gods as a whole. You could theoretically excise Kharn from Chaos as just a long-lived insane and guilt-ridden berserker renegade and he'd lose little.

>>95902984

>>95889985
There is absolutely zero doubt that firstborn will eventually come back.

Primaris were an excuse to do truescale marines, without outright replacing existing marines.

Eventually truescale firstborn will appear. Probably 12th or 13th edition, 5 to 10 years.

>>95903545
The new /tg/ narrative is now that chaos while fun, is a superfluous force and most of its characters could be separated from that part of their context and their role given to other factions and the game would still function.
Mainly as the blowback to Hours Heresy secondaries thinking that the setting is just imperials vs chaos.

And the truth is that they aren't entirely wrong, in the thread that kicked this whole argument/bait thing off, the OP was "Which one would 40k be worse off without Chaos or Xenos" or something to that degree and outside of like two guys who could just go "nuh uh" in defense of chaos everyone else agreed that if you only had one or the other Xenos has more potential by staying.

>>95899817
Big plastic toys such as??? The Hellcannon, which is not even plastic?

>>95903639
>The new /tg/ narrative is now that chaos while fun, is a superfluous force and most of its characters could be separated from that part of their context and their role

>>95902984
One of Kharn's first appearances is him seeing a fellow berserker cutting off his own head as an offering to Khorne because he wasn't going to be first over the wall, and Kharn being so moved by this act of devotion that he kicked the head over the wall to honour him.

>>95904970
Care to elaborate on your disagreement, or you just going to keep pouting about it, anon?

>>95904995
If you took out "as an offering to Khorne", the story doesn't really change, does it?

>>95904999
>if you take out the sincere religious devotion from this story then my point about there being no sincere religious devotion is valid

>>95905006
Interesting that's the point you imagined I was making, anon

>>95883200 (OP)
It's just a smear campaign because he achieved more than any chaos character in 40k. Horus was weak, Horus was a fool. Failbaddon the Armless doesn't even compare to Archadon.

>>95904995
>>95904999
>>95905006
>>95905024
>seriously arguing edgelord slop writing

>>95903639
>The new /tg/ narrative
I hope /tg/ never develops a groupthink such that a poster of sound mind could write such a phrase sincerely

>>95889910
Says the queer who cyberstalks GW like a jilted lover

>>95891214
>Sure, listen to the people who want a new historical total war game when your golden goose, warhammer, that you have so much material for, and the opportunity to pump more lord packs, more factions, more paid DLC, and you SHIT YOUR FUCKING PANTS AND BURST INTO FLAMES ON THE FIVE YARD LINE
It wasn't another Total War game that fucked up CA's development cycles, retard, it was something far more retarded. The reason ALL their TW games are limoing along right now is because of motherfucking HYENAS

>>95911481
this, honestly as far as drama and mismanagement goes that whole saga was pretty delicious, shame it happened within a dev with a core product I like