All will be dust edition

Previous Heresy: >>95897941

>HH 3.0 Leaks
https://imgur.com/a/344L8ku

>New Edition Soon™
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/setting/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/

>New to The Horus Heresy? Here’s Everything You’ll Need to Get Started
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/05/30/new-to-the-horus-heresy-heres-everything-youll-need-to-get-started/
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>Thread FAQ (very old, remembers Age of Terra)
https://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8
https://pastebin.com/8riDmnhS
>30k TACTICA & TIPS
https://pastebin.com/Tm2P4QLp
https://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Age_of_Darkness-Warhammer_30k/2.0_Tactics/General_Tactics

>MEGAs are down for the time being, going to wait for things to cooldown with the new edition and leaks before bringing them back up

『Adeptus Titanicus and Legions Imperialis』
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/legions-imperialis/
>List of Titan Legions with Badges and Colours
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17Jccq0V--SwJifLVLwbisYnQeqLlS2pMSiPbGXp1Brs/htmlview
>More lists
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_Titan_Legions
>What size magnets do I need?
5x1mm
>Tactics
https://1d6chan.miraheze.orug/wiki/Adeptus_Titanicus/Tactics

>Thread Question:
How would you define the tactical role of the Saturnine Dreadnought?

>TQ
Twink butt plug.

Repostan the question. I want some mk4s, mk5s and to kitabash a 20 man squad of a cobbled together armour from part of different marks.
I don't have access to a printer or somebody with one.
What would be the best way to approach this and what recasters, if any, would offer the best range of marks and parts? I have zero experience with recasters.

>>95902635

>invite only recasters
How do people get invites anyway?

Are you dreadnought ready?

>>95902655
referred by existing people.

They're insular because GW will shut them down if they can. Even if they can just pop up again later, its a pain in the ass and means they need to purge members and shit

>>95902631 (OP)
If there is a Siege Assault, is there a...Siege Ranged?

>>95902655
Look up any Legion unit name on Google and keep scrolling down until you see low prices. You're welcome.

>>95902655
You gotta know a guy who knows a guy
Mostly it's just a matter of asking someone who's already a customer
The public ones are still fairly reasonable
Except Cheapnfast
fuck cheapnfast

>>95902631 (OP)
Heavy siege fire support, similar to the thanatar for mechanicum and I guess the typhon for Marines.

>>95902695
Holy fuck I hate cheapnfast so much, fucker took 3 months to ship 18 thallax, including trying to play hide and seek with the postage for a month, and when they got here all the Photon Thruster arms were snapped in the exact same spot so his mold was busted too.

>>95902631 (OP)
Exotic fire support

Hey what should our main complaint be about this threads? Wanna whine about plasma some more? Whine like the sound the gun makes on its pitiful charge cycle as it prepares to Breaching (6+)? Wanna bitch about shitty saturnine terminator design while some cope fag preps his anus to buy the hundred-dollar dreadnought? Or let's mope about how the FOC is gonna force you to take one extra character you already had lying around anyway.

>>95902705
I hope Ukrainians ram an FPV through his house

With the coming skitarii rules for 30k, do you think using the 40k models will be acceptable? How do they compare in scale to 30k marines?

>>95902741
The ink used for the 3rd edition rulebooks fades so you'll have to buy a replacement book in two years. Also it has chemicals that turn you gay so only flip through it wearing gloves.

>>95902770
No you won't be able to use 40k skitarii because they won't be large enough or have the right guns and if you try it you'll be laughed out of the store, followed home, and then shot.

>>95902781
Jokes on them OP already is gay!

>>95902806
But maybe the gay chemicals make gay people like bi or something. Like a double negative.

>>95902817
>1 + 1 = 2
That's not what double negative means

Already /hhh/, I need some help. My 30k collection is limited to my storage case which is roughly the size of the card board. I'm picking up 30 of the new mark 2 marines to fill out the red space. For the blue space, which should I get.
>1) Fellblade
>2) Peurterabo + Land Raider
>3) Peurterabo + 10 terminators
>4) Land Raider + 2 Saturnine Dreadnoughts
>5) Something else

>>95902830
Fellblade.

>>95902830
Fellblade, primarchs are gay

>>95902830
Legion Scout Squad
and
Legion Scout Squad

>>95902830
Fellblade, but you keep the relevant bits magnetized so you can turn it into a glaive when that kit comes out.

>>95902830
5) 4 araknae and 6 tarantulas, slaved to the will of a centurion and 2 Forge Lords (1 armored support and 3 tactical support detachments)

>>95902830
Fellblade.

Or better yet, falchion. Bitches love falchions.

Is DG trim gold or bronze?

>>95902860
I don't love falchions. Falchions are just sort of okay.

>>95902868
I say bronze. But either bronze, gold, or brass are fine desu, if that's why you're asking. As long as it's tarnished.

>>95902868
Brass

is zackgame dead?

>>95902868
100000 marines, 3000+ world at war. They are any color you want.

Is the new Saturnine box any good for a new player? I'm kinda interested in those big pauldron lads

>>95902884
Who

>>95902871
How does it feel to live with bad taste anon?

>>95902741
>Wanna whine about plasma some more?
Unironically yeah. I guess I could try alternative profiles, to make it fucking worth it:
>Safer: S7 AP4 Breaching (4+) Overload 1
>Maximal: S8 AP2 Overload 1
Also gonna make regular disintegrators S5 AP2 D2, for the reason they've always been S5 AP2

Why do anons love the Fellblade? Aside from the badass name of course

>>95902938
Because we're all basic bitches.

>>95902938
Uhhhhh, sister?

>>95902895
You can never go wrong with 40 tacticals and models you like.

>>95902938
I love the double barreled cannon. Bitches love the double barreled cannon.

>>95902964
Nice, thanks anon.

>>95902938
That's the Fellblade? Aww I wanted the Volkite one

>>95902672
honestly not sure how it's gonna work. I hope I can still run all of my beloved boxnaughts in my army

If you love Horus Heresy, go to warhammer world and kill every single rules designer you see. Go to your LGS and kill every GW shill you find. Kill them all.

>>95903015
in minecraft?

>>95903015
Nice try macca you already fucked up last time, no one's listening anymore

>>95903026
macca?

>>95903026
I honestly think it's hilarious that's he got catfished by a femboy and hung around a macca's carpark for 3 hours

>>95903038
What?

>>95903026
>4th edition SRD releases
>circle heresy releases
>gw shills kill themselves in droves as they achieve OPR levels of popularity

The future is bright anon

>>95903042
Do I need to post the video again.

>>95903047
Please

>>95903052
>>95900199

>>95903038
What did the femboy look like, though?

>>95902938
I wonder if how big the next big tank is going to be. Was thinking of adding remote control car components to the next one so I can ride it around my LGS.

>>95902692
Are just use a non pozzed SE

>>95903047
Competitive wargaming is over, anon. The three year edition cycle will be broken. Will you embrace the future, or stick to GW and kill yourself?

>>95902744
It's Chinese idiot

>>95903061
Lou Ferrigno.

>>95903065
I think we're at the limits of what can be moved around on a gaming table, even with 30k's less terrain-dense boards. Clearly, the only way for scale creep to advance is to make them taller.

Actually, a big Mechanicum spider-tank with a leg layout similar to the Hierophant, meaning lots of space for your dudes to walk under, would be sick

>>95903015
>we've officially reached the 'I want to commit a mass shooting' level of asspain over the new rules
on the off chance you're not actually joking I suggest going for a walk or something, getting this worked up over rules for a toy miniatures game isn't very healthy.

>>95903061
kinda like majorkill, no joke.
I'm honestly surprised he didn't catch on when he was sent to a fucking macca's carpark

>>95903038
Isn't he married?

>>95903089
Yes

>>95903094
Got proof of the femboy shit? This is hilarious

>>95902938
Beeg

>>95903060
>FNP 3+ Battle Hardened Iron Hands tacticals with an Apothecary
Jfc. In no world is that ok. I was morbidly curious but now I'm hard avoid.

>>95903078
Either we get GW rules on par with those produced TooFatLardies, or people start dying. Simple as. Another 8th edition cannot be tolerated

>>95903076

>>95903060
Salt merchants can't write games confirmed once again I see. They're too busy focusing on what they hate about the current game to actually learn how to make something good.

You need passion for that, and they never have it.

>>95903026
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXTIqDl2Qho&t=18s
>Horus heresy "expert" gets dog walked in a toy soldier game and makes a 20 min video crying about it

>>95903112
Is that a stalk tank form LI? Looks sick

>>95903113
Fuck passion you need Playtesting. You're not allowed to talk about how much your changes to rules would be better if you haven't spent at least 2 years testing them.

>>95903116
>open embed
>Spartan and 3 land raiders
>close embed
I don't care what he was going to talk about he's too retarded to be worth listening to if he's complaining about losing with that list. Either play for narrative and shut up if you crushed or play competitive and shut up when people don't play against you anymore.

>>95903119
GW doesn't do that, either. They need to make a permanent ruleset with at least five years of development and playtesting. Then stick to it for at least a couple of decades

>>95903076
>less terrain dense

What you talking about, cletus? This ain't some tourny issue slop with some like shaped ruins, I sure hope you play on a board with appropriately dense terrain, including large LOS blockers like God intended.

>>95903097
gimme a bit, it's in some random 40k discord

Why is this place more mentally ill than usual? These last two threads have been terrible to read through

>>95903141
Stir crazy

>>95903141
We've hit rock bottom with eceleb faggotry. Seems like there's at least one dedicated shill for this outer circle guy, who I guess is like the messiah for people who like to complain about 30k.

Personally I think just let the fat fuck make his homebrew 30k stuff. If it's good then it's good, and if it sucks then oh well, we can ignore him now. Until then I would hope we could just shut the fuck up about it all.

>>95903141
Inconsolable amounts of salt

>>95903141
New edition means more people, which means stirring shit up

>>95903119
Passion can include playtesting. Passion is what helps you salvage that idea and make it work after playtesters show you how it breaks.

Salt merchants like Outer Circle can't do that though.

>>95903150
Go back to cheating on your wife, Macca

>>95903141
I honestly don't know. I've been working on a scheme for Night Lords and hoping leaker anon comes back with unit type info (like the rules for characters). Like /tg/ is always salty, but this is saltier than a fat man's sweaty butt crack lately.

>>95903035
Some schizos in /hhg/ think anyone criticizing GW are a youtuber called The Outer Circle, or Macca.

>>95903181
Would

>>95903192
I'm fine with criticizing GW. I just don't think people who are gassing up The Outer Circle's homebrew know anything about what makes a good game and need to stop trying to gobble his cock.

>>95903042
>Circle edition releases
>It's exactly like 1.0 in every single way except his pet legion has received overpowered buffs
>Girls aren't allowed to play as per the rules
>This took him 5 years to write

>>95902938
Fellblade is best blade, it either dominated or got wrecked asap whenever I or other anons at events used them. Just a cool vibe overall.

>>95902963
Post models anon? oh wait you just lurk in this thread and look for small flaws in good posters content using tired forced memes. You reek of SDE.

>>95903278
To be fair, I got that Fellblade pic off eBay, it's not mine

>>95903238
Forgot the part where he inevitably begs for money to fund his pet project the entire time too.

>>95903278
I still find it funny that they even bothered giving Manus rules. The only thing he did was die.

>>95903181
Shouldn't the bra cover the shoulder pads? Saturnine is a slut anyway.

>>95903284
I think of rules for people who die as fun "what if" scenario kind of stuff. Like what if Ferrus used his brain and didn't charge dick first into Fulgrim's trap how would other battles have played out?

>>95903289
Pasties and a corset apparently.

>>95903283
He's already doing that

>>95903271
What's your point

Given what we know of the core rules, which legion's rules are going to need the most work? Like will DG still always count as stationary and if so, is that even all the strong any more given the changes to bolters and heavy weapons?

>>95903293
Nothing, I'm coming off LSD and the exchange just amused me

>>95903141
New edition announced. Brings that crazies out. It’s like a full moon.

>>95903293
>He's already doing that
I can't even bother to pretend to be shocked.

How many could you fit in your butt?

>>95903291
Ferrus charing dick first always into all of Flugrim is cannon.

>>95903366
Impulsive of him. He needs to keep his head clear.

>>95903262
God I love the mkIV ironclad.

>>95903402
Needs more dakka.

>>95903404
What doesn't?
I want to get a fellblade so I can give it the 2 quad heavy bolters plus two pintle mounted heavy bolters

Rolled 1, 3 = 4 (2d6)

>>95903141
Nobody here has a decent cool stat so we're all losing it.
Except me, of course. Look how cool I am.

>>95902830
Fellblade would be peak IW

Is that one anon who used a stormcast model for HH still here?

>>95903445
Anon they're called Sanguinary Guard

>>95903445
he died tragically in an freak exploding tire accident while changing his tire on the side of the highway.

>>95902868
It does not matter. I do a really worn gold and nobody knows or cares. Just make it nasty.

>>95903278
>Post models anon?
I accept your capitulation
Also your primarch is dead.

>twenty four saturnine terminators

>>95902631 (OP)
Im not really digging the new mk2 assualt marines. Can I just slap the old mk2 jump packs on the tacticals and call them assault marines or are the little straps on the torso 100% necessary?

>>95903723
If someone tries to call you out on a lack of fucking straps, call them an autistic fag and smash their rivet counted models over their smug head.

>>95902631 (OP)
Is GW copying the stupid oversized pouldrons from WOW now?

>>95903065
How about...now hear me out guys....what if the tanks got so big, they ARE the table?

>>95903742
>now

nigga are you serious

>>95903751
Anon warcraft/starcraft bring fantasy/40k clones is basically foundational knowledge at this point.

>>95903763
Meant for >>95903742

>>95902895
Shitloads of marine bodies is always a good basis, and getting the rulebook too.
I got started with the 2.0 box, and the only thing I've reliably used is the marines, but I've used the praetor on occasion, I've used bits of the Spartan, and occasionally used the terminators.
Mileage will vary, but using dollarydoos, you're looking at $270 odd for the marines, and $100 or so for the rulebook.
It's probably a good place to start, depending on price.

>>95903751
I've heard something about people playing games of Kill Team on a Tau Manta.

RIP Bam Margera. hhg salutes you

>>95903402
I'm so upset they got rid of the rules for it. Fuck nu40gay for getting rid of the boxyboys now they have no home

>>95903751
>>95903789
People have made KT boards on homemade Emperor Titans. If you're gonna do that for a ground vehicle, then an Imperial Leviathan command centre or Squat Land Train would be a better choice.

>>95903864
>Entire board setup like the last mission from Winter Assault.
Based.

>>95903817
Boxnaughts were fucking peak in 1.0.
Slap em in a 35pt drop pod with fist and ap3 marines rape flamer and watch your enemy scramble to kill your cheap distraction carnifex in their backline.

Or missiles + double hk missiles.

Man, look at what they did to my boy.

Morning everyone, hope you're doing well.
Has there been any rumors on the Saturnine release date yet? I'm going on holiday tomorrow for six weeks, and I don't want to miss the preorder window.

Wait, you can buy some of the 3.0 literally right now?

did somebody say... ironchad?

>>95903897
These were clearly not originally planned for 3.0 seeing the colour scheme

>>95903873
EricsHobbyWorkshop was making a standing titan that you could play KT in, I believe from the legs to the shoulders but I'm not 100%.

But playing over the carcass of a god machine would be fucking awesome.

>>95903879
I converted this dude up for 1.0 and never got around to painting him before the rules changed. Now he's just a cool paperweight.

I didn't want all those options anyway

>>95903897
Splitting the weapons like that is maximum kikery. Gonna be awesome when my recaster sells them with all 4 options for $17

>>95903167
you can't make up for raw talent, but sure if he was truly passionate he'd be more open to scrapping 7th ed and trying to innovate better systems. If you absolutely must parastize an older edition 4th would be the best option as a 'template' since it has such limited rules beyond gameplay mechanics.

>>95903897
You say this like 2.0 doesn't have rules for Rapiers and Tarantulas?

>>95903921
that chainfist is rough from that angle, it was between that and the armiger chainglaives for my WE contemptor, think I'll go with the latter.

>>95903209
I like his salt but yes he's stuck in rut thinking HH 1 was so great and only needs some additional autism to represent the Legions properly the way he sees them.

>>95903138
please deliver op

>>95903931
>Sigmar
>No model no rules
I thought Sigmar was designed with that shit in mind.

>>95903065
big enough to carry two Mastodons into battle

>>95903955
well, isn't everyone who bought all black and red books stuck in HH1? Especially in Downunder where GW can be paid in kidneys?

>>95903898
I like it a lot Traitor WS anon, but the legs look just a little too long for how short the arms are.
I will probably copy it, but not use what you used for the mid leg, instead of three pieces I would keep it two.

>>95903953
It's because of the modded grav gun on the bottom. It needed repairs after I primed it, unfortunately.

>>95904046
good point... I kinda designed it around the dual plasma, agree better proportions than the lil arms. I stuck with long legs for that +1" movement lol

>>95904176
Just give him some long arms to match the legs

>>95903931
If this is the same team as TOW, then I doubt we're losing options for units without models. That unit in the reveal that can be made with rapier crew reminds me of these units from TOW. If anything, I think we might see even more exemplary battles style units.

>>95903897
Yes. That's how you know their rules are going to be borderline unplayable

>>95904231
the face on the chassis is kino. the pose and proportions are kino. the model is kino.

Is everyone's favourite recaster als down right now? Says the domain has been recently registered on NameCheap, whatever the fuck that means.

Anyway, slight break away from HH3.0 - dubs picks which legio I make for an Adeptus Titanicus army

>>95904309
GW a plastic 28mm scale warmaster titan and my life is yours.

Radoom

>>95904309
I checked five that use web domains instead of email orders. Four are fine, one is down but they were on domain #6 so they'll probably come back up with a different number shortly.

>>95904309
Osedax. Every titan needs at least one melee weapon.

>>95904231
Whole huge kino.

>>95904363
Interesting, I have just managed to pick up a Warmaster with the melee options so Legio Osedax is on the short-list. Still waiting for dubs though.

>>95903931
Even 40k still has units without official models that require kitbashing anon.

>>95904309
Dubs is a shit way to determine anything because of you don't like the scheme you will never paint it. It's just fishing for (You)s from paintlets

>>95902938
Because the blockyness is trimmed down and the rounded turret is sweet.
Fellblade mogs the shit out of the retarded kratos

>>95904572
For now, but GW is keen to get rid of them. Space Wolves just lost a whole bunch of datasheets like all characters on Thunderwolves, the Lieutenant equivalent in Terminator Armour, even their Long Fangs who haven't had a dedicated kit since like 3rd ed.
The 40k team is very hostile to hobbying. Eliminating dstasheets with no dedicated kit to sell and purging the datasheets they are keeping of any weapon options that arent on that kit's sprue.
Still salty that at thr beginning of 10th, I got the new Terminator Captain model, built him with the classic TH/SS loadout using leftover bits only for the Space Marine codex to drop two weeks later and not allow thst load out anymore.
My only hope is that when they release the new Assault Terminators, characters will be allowed that loadout again.

>>95904561
Here are your Osedax dubs.

>>95904630
After dinner

>>95904309
audax, spam those harpoon-toting warhounds

>>95904309
Legio Mortis

>>95904618
>My only hope is that when they release the new Assault Terminators, characters will be allowed that loadout again.

Of course they will, how will they sell multiple new captain and lieutenants models otherwise?

Presumably, what size magnets would be used for the Saturnine dread's main weapons? Eyeballing it off Minicompare, I'm going to guess it won't be too dissimilar to the Leviathan.

I just want the libers bros, how else am I going to build ever-changing theoretical lists that motivate me to work on my army

Preordered muh rapiers. Got a Centurion and 3 Apothecaries on the desk to clean up oils tonight, feeling hobby motivated. What are you guys working on?

>>95904776
Could take a look at the sprues for an estimation

>>95904309
Mortis

>>95904269
I think GW is of two minds.

Some of them hate units without proper models, since its a barrier of sorts for newer players and opens up an area of ambiguity where 3rd parties can enter.
Another part likes them/understands their value, because theyre an area where you can tell people "yea buy two different kits to make this" and sell two kits for the price of one with no further investment into development.

Memes aside what's the best and cheapest way to acquire hundreds of bodies for an infantry only militia force?

>>95904905
Northstar, Warlord, WGA, etc. Depending how you want them to look.

>>95904938
WGA is probably closest to GW scale and come with plenty of options. Even heavy weapons and cavalry.

>>95904905
I was going to post a picture of green army men as a joke, so we could have a hearty chuckle at the idea, but then I found these guys.

>>95904964
The proportions on them are kinda wonky and some of the faces look pretty weird but they might look okay based and painted.

>>95904938
I'd like something that doesn't look out of place next to get minis

>>95903626
Can't even put the shoulders on properly...and a bitter bitch. SDE confirmed lol, lmao even.

>>95904964
Finally, Slaugth minis

>>95904964
jesus, those are complete trash. I know from experience, I made soldiers like those on my first attempt to sculpt with greenstuff by just making a body out of paperclips for arms and legs and then trying to put a tiny bit of greenstuff on top of the paperclips.

If someone is trying to sell them for money they're a piece of shit.

>>95904905

Printing this costed me like 20 cents.

>>95905048
and then $10 in tissues to clean up the jizz because those are absolutely sexy and better than the random squatting GW guard troops

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/nvoot66p/rules-in-the-age-of-darkness-the-saturnine-dreadnought/

>>95905048
I hope this is trolling and you're not actually planning on playing this.

>>95905059
>WS4 BS4 dreads
>No increase in wounds
HAHA EAT IT DREADSPAMMING COCKSUCKERS

>>95905059
>impressive mental stats
>intelligence 5

>>95905075
it reduces las, plasma and melta incoming strength...

>>95905059
>WS4 dreads
Words couldn't possibly express my joy

>>95905059
>graviton pulser
>Plasma
Grav weapons no longer exist, oh I am laffing.

so on overload it's killing one marine a turn

I wish mk5 heresy power armor wasn't a specific pattern but rather a mixture of existing marks and unique stop-gaps that take inspiration from rogue trader and visions of heresy.

>>95905059
Guess we know what Grav does this edition, AP3 (might just be big Grav since Grav Flux Bombard was also ap3 in 2.0) blasts with shock (pinning) and pinning. Was kind of hoping they'd be suppression instead honestly

>dreads are WS4/BS4 across the board now
Seems like an odd choice instead of making them good at one thing

>>95905075
They conspicuously didn't show contemptors. Maybe they stay at WS/BS 5?

>>95905059
So, the text makes it pretty clear that there aren't gonna be any melee weapons for the Saturnine. Shame.

>>95905118
There will very likely be a way to up their stats in some way I'm sure through some form of legion bullshittery or even, dare I say it, cybertheurgic influence from a techmarine or forge lord

I hope that one fag yesterday saying dreads would still be op necked himself

>>95905137
They still are

>>95905107
Why would something with no standardization get an official military designation? All manner of custom and mixed armour already exist and just classified as either artificer armour or field modifications.

>>95905059
>WS 4
>2 attacks
Yeah this is a shooty dreadnought, definitely not gonna get any melee options lol.

>Deads are useless
>Tanks are useless
>Terminators are useless
I for one welcome our Heavy Support Squad overlords, glory to the 14th!

>>95905166
If everyone is useless, no one is.

>>95905148
>WS and BS down to 4
>Weapons have damage stats, one meltagun can one-shot a deredeo
How exactly.

Probably a warcom typo, grav weapons should have their own grav trait instead of being plasma?

>>95905100
Clearly a typo, like the I1 centurion

>>95905182
It'll get corrected in 3-6 hours like the I1 centurion. Given that the templates war comm are using don't match the book layouts it's probably just a intern fuckup

>>95905178
>Weapons have damage stats, one meltagun can one-shot a deredeo
Need in to be in half range, will never happen, only applies to the long range dread. Deep Strike is dead.

>>95903294
>DG
D2 lascannons you can hide and then pop out with is pretty strong. Same with the volkite caliver and whatever the heavy one is.

>>95905182
Is this weak as fuck with a 3" blast if wounds don't spill over onto the squad?

>>95905178
They removed that from that article a few days ago lol

>>95903626
GAME SET. Models called, models produced. Further jeering is disqualified.

>>95905213
Ahem.

>>95903294
I expect DG will lose stationary. It would be way too overpowered with heavy weapons now that there are no alternatives (like troop plasma being entirely harmless)

Deathguard would be the most mobile army and shootiest army in an edition where melee is non-existent and there's no counters like deepstrike melee to hold them back.

>Tacticals are the only unit that aren't complete dogshit so far

>>95905059
Pinning(3) on the grave cannon is ludicrous. It'll keep elite armies locked out of playing the game if they can't immediately interact with it. Having enough units to still have some left to move after your main ones get pinned is going to be really important.

>>95905059
It's a big, awkward brick with guns that are mostly kinda dogshit, so what is the point? The plasma sucks balls in all kodes, the graviton and conversion arms need to be so close they might as well have 'please melta me' written on their forehead and the nipple guns both are not worth the huge price tag. Only the XXL disintegrator is kinda useable.

>>95905226
Fucking based

>>95903294
If DG keep their "can still move while pinned" rule that will be enough to keep them relevant. If GW is putting a dread with pinning(3) guns in the launch box, then you can bet that they'll be all over the place for years to come.

>>95905102
Surely its more? Even without breaching it causes more than 3 wounds. Surely.

>WAACfags getting filtered
Based gw

>>95905223
The deredeo being BS4 feels really wrong.

>>95905223
fuck

>>95905227
I was going to say >18" range but I guess pinning makes that redundant huh. And it seems like (so far) there's no stubborn or fearless so even with a character you're testing at CL6

>>95904269
We're literally getting 3 units without dedicated models in the supplement.

>>95905223
It'll have some sort of targeting array that triggers if it doesn't move

>>95905241
On /hhg/ the number of hits a 5" blasts gets depends on which angle somebody is trying to argue at the moment:
>5" blasts bad: they'll hit 2 models at most if you're lucky
>5" blasts are OP: they'll hit 5 models minimum and 7 or 10 regularly

>>95905228
>the graviton and conversion arms need to be so close they might as well have 'please melta me' written on their
Oh yes I do wonder how the fat fuck with range >12" s6+ ap3 multi damage 5" pie plate guns are going to cope with a meltaguns
Jesus do you people even play the game

>>95904905
I went wargames Atlantic and iron whatever kern. I didn't realize the panzerjager were all female and now I have 60. I just liked the helmet better and now they're so skinny ha.

>>95905246
At least all of its gun are twin linked... Oh.

>>95905254
The latter is true and will likely be closer to 7-10 this edition with more accurate blasts.

>>95905257
>Jesus do you people even play the game
Thought it was widely known by now that none of us here on /hhg/ have models, play games, or read the rules.

>>95905223
I still love you little buddy

>>95905254
For a 5" plate I err on the side of 3-5 on a hit/decent scatter
People that think pie plates will never hit more than 1-2 models play purely in their head

>The sergeants of my tactical squads can now also one-shot dreadnoughts in addition to more reliably wrecking vehicles
Dare I say, kino?

Going through my new on sprue leftovers and debating if I want to start a fresh army:
10 nuMKvi
10 calth mkiv
10 Prospero mkiii
10 cataphractii
Both 2.0 characters, and the calth cataphractii praetor.
I'm not sure how I feel about the old plastics with the new beakies because the size difference is notable. I could always steal some unpainted shit that doesn't have legion specific bits I guess.

What was the point of restricting dreads so much if you are going to nerf them into the ground? Like making dreads powerful but only being able to take lime 2 in a 3k army without sabotageing it elsewhere made sense. This just feels like a massive over correction. Doubly so because dreads ar big cool models and big cool models shpuld be strong. The rule of cool is the entire point of the setting.

>>95905272
Its actively difficult to only hit 1 dude with a 5" pieplate, especially now that you direct hit more often.

>>95905289
>FotA and dreadnought abusers on suicide watch
It's a good day.

>>95905289
>What was the point of restricting dreads so much if you are going to nerf them into the ground?
Oink oink! Buy more models piggy!

So what do dreads do now? Whats the niche? Because in melee they now lose to basic terminators.

>>95905278
what's your thought process on this? A2 serge gets A3 on the charge with a D2 power fist and hope you roll well?

>>95904315
Just wrap a toddler in cardboard

>>95905253
Its weapons will just be Heavy (BS)

>>95905303
Power fists? My sergeants only have a combi-melta.

>>95905302
says in the article
>deredeo
long range durable gun platform
>leviathan
durable mid/short range gun platform that can punch back
>saturnine
mid/short range gun platform that is more even more durable but can't punch back

>>95905308
based

>>95905302
>melee they now lose to basic terminators
They don't, terminators will need fists which will hit slower, while dreads will be hitting sooner with more powerful weapons

>>95905182
>Heavy D

>>95905321
>while dreads will be hitting sooner with more powerful weapons
With a finite number of attacks.

4 attacks, 2 hits, 2 wounds, 1 dead terminator through the 4++ because brutal is gone.
Then they get power-fisted to death.

Terminators are honestly looking like pretty big winners of the edition.

>>95905321
dreads are going to have 3 or 4 attacks with no brutal this edition. half their attacks miss, assume all will wound, half get saved by invulns. they kill maybe one terminator. brutal did all the work for them last edition.

>>95905327
>power-fisted to death
Good name for a metal album.

Didn't they make a point about how certain special rules buff statlines now?
Seems like that would be a logical thing to consider the dread statlines in the context of.

>>95905059
>plasma gutted
>disitigrators just spicy versions of other weapons that kill your own unit just as much
>dread triple nerf in one edition
>duel phase that unless youre tuned for is a waste of time
>vehicles shit themselves if you scratch the paint, but removing half the chassis they dont care(y'know the part the sensors etc were mounted on?)
>

>>95905182
What a weirdly bad gun. It doesn't do anything in particular.

>>95905329
>>95905327
Dread melle weapons haven't been shown yet, they will likely be buffed. Terminators will also be nerfed like every other unit has been.

Did the guy malding about not being able to take 2 of the same weapon on the dread kill himself?

>>95905102
Man the Mechanicoomers are about to have it real rough, both plasma AND grav are bad? What do they even have left after that, rad weapons?

>>95905350
>Dread melle weapons haven't been shown yet, they will likely be buffed.
They can be damage 2000 for all it changes. Damage is now after saves, they lost brutal (simply not a rule any more) and now simply instant death. Meaning saves work against them. Dreads may (probably will) do more damage, objectively, to other dreads or what have you. But their interaction with infantry has been fundamentally changed by the core rules, its no longer "Make 3 saves or die (per hit)" , its just normal instant death attacks.

>Terminators will also be nerfed like every other unit has been.
To what, ws3? 1A? Be serious.

>>95905348
Mashes entire squads of tactical marines into the ground?

>>95905337
Here's my suspicion
>Rites of War are going to get turned into apex detachments with specific prime benefits like the interdiction cadre
>there will be a Fury of the Ancients detachment with 4 war machine slots, one of which will be prime
>prime advantage will be the model in the prime slot gets +1 WS, BS and Invuln and gets the champion subtype

>>95905350
>Terminators will also be nerfed like every other unit has been.
Wtf is there to nerf? Take them to 1 wound?

>>95905376
Which also ironically doesent change how they interact with dreadnoughts very much.

>>95905372
Not with a 3" blast it doesn't

>WS4/BS4 dreads
holy fuck lmao

>>95905374
Ah yes, having to play a specific rite of war to give one single dreadnought WS 5 BS 5 will surely fix dreadnoughts.

>>95902868
Bronze

>>95905369
>Damage is now after saves,
Bro forgot about criticals and weapons giving stat bonuses now
>To what, ws3? 1A? Be serious.
Idk but saturnines suck and they are supposed to be the best terminators so the others are going to be worse

>>95905401
We are so back, also the shooty dreads will be easy to tarpit with tacs

>>95905404
But I don't want to fix dreadnoughts. This was just for me to get to play all my dreads.

>>95905348
It's very likely to keep any kind of unit from moving with Pinning 3 and Shock (Pinned)

GW: Intelligence is used when interacting with technology.
Also GW: Dreadnought pilots Intelligence 5

>>95905344
>>dread triple nerf in one edition
What triple nerfs?

>>95905419
>Bro forgot about criticals and weapons giving stat bonuses now
Thats also after saves. You roll the save, and then you take however much damage the attack does. It doesent matter if it does 1 or 2000, its only one save.

>Idk but saturnines suck and they are supposed to be the best terminators
Lmao.
Saturnines are bad, they are also, objectively, the "strongest" terminators on a one to one basis. Which is all thats claimed about them, that theyre the heaviest chassis that handles the biggest guns.

>>95905226
>this is the edition that finally explains why half the soldiers of a legion were tactical marines.

>>95905437
You really think dreadhoughts can be adept at using a computer when they're fifteen feet tall and have siege guns for hands?

>>95905437
The Leviathan should have Intelligence 2 for being unstable madmen.

>>95905450
Dreads wpuld have wireless systems for that

>>95905437
>Also GW: Dreadnought pilots Intelligence 5
What about being stuck in a coffin makes you think it qualifies you for technical expertise? Its not like dreadnoughts assemble or maintain themselves, techmarines do that.

>>95905438
Availability, survivability (fine to this point), WS/BS flat 4 regardless of role. You could argue indirect nerfs like plasma as well. They needed changes, yes, namely to durability. This was too much. A leviathan getting bullied by WS4/5 power armor should not be a thing.

My expectations on the thus unrevealed special weapons

>Flamer
- FP1 S4 AP5 D1, Panic(-), Template
>Plasma
24" FP2 S6 AP4 D1, Breaching (6+)
24" FP2 S7 AP4 D1, Breaching (5+), Overload (1)
>Grav
18" FP1 S6 AP3 D2, Shock (Pinning), Pinning (2), 3" Blast
>Volkite Charger
15" FP2 S5 AP5 D1, Deflagrate(5), Assault
>Volkite Caliver
30" FP2 S6 AP5 D1, Deflagrate (6), Heavy (FP)

>>95905456
part of it is physically manipulating tech too. Not everything is wireless. Its like dexterity with anything that has a powersource. Dread are not dexterous.

>>95905226
I have a suspicion that regular combat bikes are going to be good. I have a suspicion they'll be tacticals that lose fury and pay a bit for better move speed. To me that's worth it.

>>95905450
Mechadendrites.

>>95905475
>he thinks bikes are staying around

>>95905469
>Flamer
>- FP1 S4 AP5 D1, Panic(-), Template
I wonder what the hand flamer will be? If it's just "flamer but S3 AP-" then it'll a fucking bargain since you're buying it for the Panic(x) anyway.

>>95905456
>wireless anything
>in the 40k setting
The closest you're getting is the noosphere and that's restricted to mechanicum adepts and also more locked up security wise than your chastity cage from all the scrapcode

>>95905441
Nta but you only be getting a 5++ against dreadnoughts

>>95905479
pls God don't do this to me. I'm not ready to give up my bikers

tactical marine bros.......
we did it

>>95904339
Was going to comment on this in the other thread;

I think the idea is really cool but that dome doesn't work as well as its quite tall and the kratos isn't anti air.

What about this part from the forgeworld whirlwind?

>Meta will be full size tac squads in every slot that can take them
Finally, all the legions with multiple "this unit mulches MEQ good but shits itself against 2+" units will have something to do

>>95905438
>Nerf 1: Weapons are now "universally" better at dealing with them.
All heavy weapons seem to have some variety of brutal now (effectively), which means they no longer take just 1 wound from everything but however many the D stat is now (powerfists do 2 wounds instead of 1, for example).

>Nerf 2: Dreadnoughts are much harder to field.
The new FoC and the stated removal of talons makes dreadnoughts harder to take. They come at the cost of a centurion tax and prevent you from taking other options in a much more direct way that before. Every dreadnought is an entire detachment you can no longer take, massively increasing their opportunity cost.

>Nerf 3: Dreadnought stats are now much worse.
They are now WS4/BS4, which means theyre both worse at shooting (not by that much) and much worse in melee combat. They can no longer hang with elite legion veterans and are instead going to have serious danger posed to them by regular units like terminators.

(bonus points)
>Nerf 4: Brutal is gone
Dreads were one of a few things that benefited from brutal, against normal units it essentially meant that their attacks ignored saves. You had to make your invulnerable save 3 times or instantly die. The new system does not work this way. Even if dreadnoughts keep their ability to instantly kill things on a single failed save through a high damage value, the fact that they cant force multiple saves diminishes their ability to punch through invulns. Terminators are now far more durable against them.

>>95905495
I'm joking anon bikes are in

>>95905509
>They can no longer hang with elite legion veterans and are instead going to have serious danger posed to them by regular units like terminators.
Thats what doesn't make sense, dreadnoughts are elite veterans themselves

>>95905461
I agree that Leviathan and Contemptor should be WS5, and the shooty ones WS4. Nobody took plasma on dreads since 1.0 and plasma blaster fist.

How is the availability and survivability different? The new melta rules or?

>>95905508
>falax blade rampagers
let's
fucking
go

>>95905517
Elite veterans in a metal gimpsuit*

>>95905514
you took a year off my life bro

>>95905507
At first I thought you meant the launcher (the LR Helios one comes with a mount that fits into the cupola ring), but then realized you mean the tageter. I've been wanting to get that old FW launcher and use it as a havoc launcher on a Rhino.

>>95905517
And yet thats what is the case. They are now WS and BS4, at least the ones we have seen, maybe the contemptor would be the exception (which would be really funny, given if there was ONE they had to nerf its that).
But basic terminator squads are now a very real threat, as are basic veterans. Legion vets and their WS5 (assuming they remain that) are going to be hell for dreads.

>>95905522
>remain rending 4+
>dont get breaching

>can't tarpit Corax in melee dreads
Procrastination has saved me once more I guess

>>95905509
Thanks I appreciate the breakdown, brutal.

Veteran leaks have WS4 as well, so a lot has been toned down in this edition apparently.

Don't write off Dreanoughts yet, when they haven't shown the fist profiles, as pointed out, they will likely come with buffs that make them viable in combat.

>>95905536
>remain rending 4+
>dont get breaching
"that'll be 35 3+ saves, please"

>>95905514
>light infantry and bikes
>pioneers
Wut? Surely something like breachers with their breaching charges are more pioneers than scouts and outriders.

>>95905536
The legion vets leaks have WS4

>>95905539
>Veteran leaks have WS4 as well
Those were the quickstart rules, which we know arent accurate. But those are also ranged vets (bs5), and we know melee ones exist.

>>95905539
Those are veteran tacticals and they have BS 5, we know there are veteran assaults and those are likely our current vets with special and heavy weapon options removed

>>95905539
>Veteran leaks have WS4 as well
Veteran Tacticals are WS4 BS5. They've also shown that there's a different unit called Veteran Assault Marines. We've assumed so far that those will be a WS5 BS4 variation.

>>95905545
maybe in zone mortalis, less so in an open battle

>>95905549
>>95905551
>>95905556
Oh I missed that, so they will split veterans into shooty and stabby, how very gay and boring. I always enjoyed the tactical flexibility of having both in a vets squad.

>>95905546
Legion vets (meaning the unique legion units with veteran stats, rampagers, raptors, dawnbreakers, reavers) have not had their stats leaked. And I would be surprised if theyre WS4 given theyre locked behind apex detachments (based on current indication).

Regular veterans have had a quickstart profile, but thats both the quickstart rules (of questionable value) and also the ranged vets when we know there will be an assault configuration, and im willing to bet its NOT ws4 bs5 for those guys. Im also willing to be they cant just all take heavy disinigrators in the real profile either, for that matter.

>>95905566
Yea, that was a nice concept. I dont know how many people really did it, but the idea that a veteran squad could both shoot well with midsize weapons AND hold its on in combat was cool.

Oh well, looks like its going to be a Solar Auxillia edition

>>95905566
my suspicion is that you will have shooty and stabby weapon options on both, but maybe more of one than the other, and will only get a 5 on one of the combat stats. Eg the stabby vets might get combi weapons or volkite chargers, but not anything heavy like a missile launcher.

>>95905579
I wouldnt be sure about that. Theres a whole lot of Ap4 flying around.

>>95905579
>everything is now AP4
>Al lthe good SA guns will get nerfed as well
>Vehicles nerfed
dunno chief

>>95905579
>every 5" template is AP4
nah bro

My wife is starting custodes as her first 30k (and Wargaming in general) army. What would you guys recommend as a not too OP 2k army?

Here's what I've got so far:

HQ:
200 - Shield Captain with Meridian swords.

Elites:
290 - 3xAquilon termies with fists and claws
280 - Contemptor-Achillus

Troops:
480 - 3x3 Guard with spears (one per squad with adrasite spear)

Heavy support:
260 - Magna Blaze Caladois

Allied HQ:
85 - Knight abyssal

Troops:
130 - 2x5 Vigilators

Fast attack:
275 - pursuer cadre with 3x Caïmans and a Charon pattern acquisitor

>>95905582
I hope so, I've been holding off converting up a veteran squad but now I will wait until the full rules drop.
>>95905574
Cool kit bashing project too.

>effectively compulsory eighty tactical marines
this is the trve hh

>Dread disintegrator cannon is S9
>Termie disintegrator gun is S7
Yet another proof regular disintegrators should be S5 AP2

>>95905583
>>95905584
>>95905585
>Only viable stratagey s badic troop spam
>Sola get to spam the most basic troops
>Opponents won't have enough shots to kill them

>>95905507
Is there an STL for that optic bit?

>>95905583
There already was

>>95905598
>boltguns are always 2 shots
U sure?

>>95904822
Cringe, rerolling

Krytos

>>95905542
Lol no. It's over

>>95905596
Nobody cares about S when they removed insta death

>>95905605
Yes, you can only shoot one unit a turn

>>95905605
yes it leaked in community article

Double fist dreads...

>>95905591
I recommend women stick to 40k and AoS

>>95905598
basic tac spam is cood because now nothing beats 3+ saves. SA doesn't get that

>>95905542
>when they haven't shown the fist profiles
It doesent really matter. Okay, theyre S+8 and D12. What does it change? There is an effective bottleneck on weapon damage, and theyve hit it. You can only kill one dude per attack at maximum, once you kill him it doesent matter by how much.
All having their fists do a billion damage does is make them better at killing tanks and other dreads. Which are the only things with that level of wounds/HP.

At ws4 and without brutal, a dread kills maybe one terminator per phase. And takes a lot of damage in return. It doesent really matter how powerful its attacks are.

>>95905601
I'm sure if you join a cult you can find it, if not I have it and I'll reply later and drop you it

>>95905618
blasts can be centered on any model in the target unit. if you bring so many dudes that they're packed in together then those pinning blasts are going to catch multiple units per shot

>>95905542
Man I love the amount of copium dread spammers are huffing right now, it's fucking hilarious.

>>95905634
Finally, a use for plasma bombard saturnine dreads.

>>95905626
Having two close combat weapons no longer gives +1 attack

>>95905636
not dreads, terminators. Got dreads on the mind.

>>95905460
Not just what they know, what they can do.
I'd like to see a siege drill leviathan rewire something.

>>95905598
>Spams hexachoom Kratos
Nothing personal, mortal.

>>95905640
We don't know that. We don't have the page that covers multiple melee weapons (which we know there's something to do there from psychic weapons)

>>95905598
>>Sola get to spam the most basic troops
Anon, they dont. FoC has changed, its one unit per troops slot now. No talons, no squadrons, no tercio.

>>95905469
I don't see why deflagrate needed a number. How many cases will have weapons deflagrating at a different strength?

>>95905640
Unconfirmed.

>>95905663
>How many cases will have weapons deflagrating at a different strength?
>1 probably.

>>95905635
Most people use dreads, wanting them to be decent doesn't make you a spammer.

>>95905629
Weapons give extra attacks now, not just damage. You also don't know what other benefits they get from special rules, the dreads unit entry and types they get, this could include bonus WS.

>>95905661
>no tercio
We don't know that though. Their slot could be filled by a tercio just like IG did in 40k with platoons.

>>95905673
The dread special rules giving them +1WS/BS after they lose 1BS and WS across the board would be so stupid I could see it happening.

>>95905673
>Weapons give extra attacks now
I really don't get why they added this when it won't matter for anything outside special weapons for characters and the like.

>>95905676
>We don't know that though.
All current indication suggests that this is the case. They have went out and said that they got rid of all "multiple units in one slot" rules, tercio COULD be an exception, but we have no current reason to believe so.

>>95905640
>>95905660
>>95905665
Weapons can give extra attacks now, its pretty likely that dread fists will give extra attacks

>>95905673
>Weapons give extra attacks now,
Weapons can give extra attacks now. But if swords and hammers still have the same AM, I don't know that they actually intend to make use of this value.

>>95905682
>Vehicle squadrons, Dreadnought talons, and other similar unit types no longer exist, so each individual unit will take up its own Slot.
Its of course possible this is purely marine-centric, but tercio ARE similar to squadrons and talons.

>>95905688
Dreads, it makes sense that a dread with a fist would get more attacks

Why are you retards saying Terminators are useless this edition? Is it literally just the crying over WS4? You do realise they're going to be volley firing the shit out of whatever they charge/are charged by

>>95905694
Sure, maybe dreads get +1A per fist (rather than losing an attack for not having two fists) or whatever.

>>95905695
No one is saying terminators are useless this edition, they seem rather good so far. Brutal has been removed, Ap is more limited, dreads are ws4 now.

>>95905682
You literally can't build a SA army withou tercios using that force org chart

>>95905694
In which case, why not make it a special rule? Seems weird to put it on every weapon if 95% of them don't use it.

>>95905702
Why not?

>>95905673
>dreads unit entry and types they get, this could include bonus WS

This is the most desperate cope yet, top kek

>>95905708
You don't have enough slots. Las Sections are only 60 points and you can't spam tanks anymore

>>95905585
This was already the case, most 2.0 blasts had AP4.

the Aux basically only ever got armour saves when they're being shot at by tactical marines and each other. But you get to bring literally hundreds of the bastards so things balanced out.

If tactical spam is on the menu the aux can play into that, certainly better than they could play into dreadspam.

>>95905289
house rule: keep Dreadnought talons.

>>95905718
Take ogryns then. Or superheavies.

>>95905682
They will turn tercios into unique detachments for Auxilia.

>>95905695
>Terminators can fire snap shots when /charging/charged even with weapons that aren't assault
Shaking in my boots right now

eighty tacticals in four squads of twenty across the four slots of the primary detachment is mandatory
i don't make the rules

>>95905718
Maybe they get 60 model units that can combat squad? Wouldn't put it past them to make a convoluted way of doing the exact same thing tercios did.

>>95905740

Terminators and tacticals edition

>>95905751
All with shrapnel bolters. Feel the Hammer of Olympia

Has the walker type been leaked?

>>95905767
No, leaker anon has left us hanging.

>>95905495
Anon, why would bikers be cut?
They have been around for 30 years.
More likely to get rid of specialist bolt ammo.

>>95905708
Auxilia vs Tactical balance hinges on you being able to take 3 lasboys per tactical.

If the aux are gonna be playable that still needs to work.

>Terminators good now
Yeah, I'm buying more of these

>Terminators good now
Yeah, I'm buying more of these guys

>>95904822
Cringe

>>95905820
>-1i, breaching 5+
:^)

>>95905125
Pure copium.
If Levi's aren't WS5 zero chance contemptors stay

>>95905750
Heavy flamer bitch

>>95905820
These axes better not be I1 GW, you've got the perfect chance to do something funny GW.

>>95905826
>>-1i
hits before powerfists now

>>95905820
>terminators are good now
>AP2 D3 Blast5 weapon in a unit in the starter box

What does overload do?
I didn't see it in the leaked rules in the link (which has next to no rules in it only 14 pages)

>>95905846
Nobody cares about them. I'm talking about normal ones

>>95905846
The inversion beamer is very specifically NOT in the starter box

>>95905848
Hits own unit on a to hit roll of 1, details unclear as of now.

>>95905764
>Boots edition

Do we know exactly what the deal with Overload is? Because every new gun has Overload (2) and I sure hope it doesn't mean the dread kills itself instead of shooting 1/3rd of the time

>>95905846
>4+ invuln
coin flip looks like it might be as good as it gets this edition
i think saturnine suits in particular are frankly busted if one is playing in alignment with the heart of the dice as you're just not going to give a fuck about the overloads on either platform and gat shit down all day and take no fucking damage ever

>>95905594
Why are people saying Tacticals are compulsory now? Because Dreads are WS4?

>>95905892

>>95905908
so it still fires right? And we don't know if it's the same AP and str as the gun, or no saves allowed, or what

>>95905591
Unfortunately there aren't many ways to make custodes not OP.

I'll wait for more experienced custodes anons to chime in but I think bringing sisters of silence to dilute the custodes is a good call.

>>95905892
Overload (X) allegedly means you shoot yourself (X) times every time you roll a 1 to hit.

>>95905899
Law of averages means for every game where that happens you'll get another game where your saturnines commit seppuku turn one and kill nothing.

>>95905908
>Each to hit roll of 1 can do up to 6 damage to the saturnine dreadnought itself

>>95905750
Say what? Termies can shoot volley with Twink bolters??
>>95905700
I am saying WS4 termies are useless. Source: WS5 termies using the 2.0 WS chart, that's who

>>95905918
never tell me the odds

>>95905826
>>95905837
Aren't axes i-2? At i3, they'll hit at the same time as marine power fists

>>95905849
So am I bro

>>95905899
Most of the time you'll get the whole squad under the template, and I expect most players to double up on the weapon
Probably wipes out any termie unit in one turn if it gets close

>>95905921
With implacable advance yes. But only when being charged.

>>95905918
>Every time the dread shoots someone, it then shoots itself twice on the foot

>>95905915
No, we know. On a roll of X, you hit yourself. Roll to wound and save as normal, but the hit is on yourself. Overload 2 would be on a roll of 1 or 2

>>95905938
No, they are -1

>>95905941
>only when being charged.
I think it's also when charging too, as volley fire is a charge option. Just where are you reading that? It's not in today's article

>>95905958
Oh phew. Big (was true)

>>95905960
Saturnine terminators rules article. And if you think that sentence means terminators can also volley fire with big guns when charging you're ESL confirmed.

>>95905960
>>95905941
the Fatties are Slow and Purposeful; haven't seen the new version of the rule yet, but in HH2 it prevents Reactions in addition to running

if it's substantially unchanged, they won't be able to React at all and so should need a carve-out exception to be able to Volley Fire; this is not guaranteed to be in all normal circumstances

S&P currently count as stationary when shooting, which I think has already been stated by WarCom not to be the case with Fatties, so I'm expecting changes but WHAT exactly

>Dreads have a leadership value of 12
>Flamers do -1 if it wounds successfully
>A dude with a flamer has a chance, however mediocre, of making a dreadnought run away

>>95905921
>Source: WS5 termies using the 2.0 WS chart, that's who
Oh yea, your 1/army unit of ws5 terminators is going to matter a whole lot.

Command squads and legion elites are going to be much harder to take now.

>>95905996
Dreadnoughts don't runaway

>>95905996

>>95905993
Volley fire is not a reaction. It in fact literally calls out that Stunned and Routed, the statuses that deny reactions, allow you to volley fire

>>95905508
We’re so back Palatine Blade bros

>>95905609
>>95905822
Cowards.

>>95902770
No.

>>95902770
Nobody cares what models you use

>>95905993
Desu I'm expecting slow and purposeful to be the replacement for the whole cata can't sweep thing and just be that in the aftermath phase of combat they can only hold, not pursue or gundown (which balances about getting to volley fire freely)

>>95905974
>>95905958
>>95905938
>>95905837
We dont know the way the SA axes will work. They may well be I-2 but keep AP2 for example. They didnt have power axe rules before either

>>95905846
>Blast5
Do we know how multiple blasts work in this edition? I've never been able to trust GW with them since the Wyvern Fiasco.

>>95905846
The inversion beamer isnt in the starter box. The inversion beamer is also a range 15 weapon only available to a 350~pts firing platform that will get mulched by terminators if it doesent kill all of them.

>>95906046

>>95905921
We haven't even seen if WS5 terminators exist anymore outside of command squads

>>95906044
They should make them necron Warscythes, AP2 at I2 because fuck power fists.

>>95906067
Do we really know command squads are still WS 5? Only seen the centurion still having WS 5

Regular terminators being WS5 never made sense since they aren't elite troops in 30k, just heavy shock troops.

>>95906075
>Do we really know command squads are still WS 5?
We dont. Maybe ALL units are ws4 now. But thats probably not the case.

>>95906092
Regular terminators werent ws5? But also, terminators are veterans, so it would make sense for them to be ws5(veteran stats) in the same way veterans are. They arent ws5 for balance reasons.

Is over...

>>95906097
>terminators are veterans,l.
Not in 30k

>>95906107
>Not in 30k
>finest veteran forces of the legion
Anon its the best gear, of course its something they give to veterans.

Archmagos with a conversion beamer and inversion beamer

>>95906113
>Anon its the best gear
It's not, Terminator armour is for boarding and shock assaults, it has no value to line troops

>>95906128
tartaros plate and associated implements would have been line tactical squad equipment in the dying days of the great crusade

>>95906139
>source: my ass

I'm all for this being the tactical spam edition since I love ebon keshig, but I would appreciate them not being 40ppm instead of 25ppm for the privilege of having +1A and a power glaive (stubborn is barely an upgrade over inexorable)

>>95906146
yes, things point to it, and do trust me, bro

>>95906128
>it has no value to line troops
Of course it does, its just far superior armor. 10 terminators or 10 marines, which is a superior battlefield force for holding the line?
Terminator armor is used for boarding and shock assaults because it is a finite resource and these uses are those that utilize its unique strengths to the fullest. But its just superior to power armor in every regard (well, tartaros is anyways).

If the imperium could give terminator armor to everyone it would, because why wouldnt you, but just like giving everyone volkite or using only sicarans over predators, resource constraints exist.

>>95906151
"waaah why arent my expendable troops that give no VP not also optimal for combat"
Because theyre "free" units, they shouldnt be good. Theyre a penal formation.

>>95906154
Tartaros is strictly better than power armour, the other suits are way more specialised and would not make a good power armour replacement.

>>95906128
That's why, if the HH hadn't happened, the plan was to eventually have terminator armour be standard equipment for every single marine. Because it was just inferior to power armour, definitely not the best gear.

>>95906165
sir this is a tabletop game

>>95906167
>the other suits are way more specialised and would not make a good power armour replacement.
They would, because the benefits outweigh their downsides. The other suits are however, like tartaros, expensive and difficult to manufacture.
Even dogshit like indomitus terminator armor is heaps above regular power armor.

>>95906172
Which is why units that give no VP should not be good in comparison with units that do. You pay a cost for being "free" vp wise.

>>95905985
Found it, thanks.
Idk. I'm going by a different sentence found elsewhere, that says to can do a volley fire attack with assault guns when you yourself are charging.
So as for Implacable Advance Terminators charging, I think yes. At least for twin linked bolters.
But doing it with Heavy weapons? Idk. It says "their guns". Saturnines are mostly armed with big ass guns, plus an optional flamer. What could "their guns" mean when talking about the big ass terminator unit with the big ass guns?
Flamers, surely, right?

>>95906184
The flamer is better than the guns anyways.

>>95906181
It didn't come up much because only two missions in 2.0 actually counted kills for VP

>>95906175
>he fell for the indomitus is bad meme.
>he fell for the saturnine is good meme.

>>95906006
4/army. I'm taking a Praetor (+3 Vanguard), and Logistical Benefit: +1 Army Vanguard.

>>95906199
Indomitus is objectively the worst terminator armor. It offers lower protection like tartaros while being slow and restrictive like cataprachti armor. Its sole benefit is that it is the easiest mark to produce, because its the lowest quality.

>dreads this, vehicles that, terminators, etc
militia are still gonna be shit tier arent they

>>95906203
you could take five legion elites potentially by just slotting in another with the vanguard detachment's prime option for logistical benefit, the other being done with the main detachment

>>95906203
Cant take Apex detachments with logistical benefits iirc. Those are exclusively from your praetor.

>>95906210
Obviously.

>>95906214
Logistical benefit is once per army

>>95906210
Are PDF rules even confirmed for Militia?

>>95906222
detachment

>>95906206
Indomitus is some shitty techpriests attempt at reverse engineering gorgon plate.

>>95906222
'once per detachment' appears to be the wording

>>95902631 (OP)
So why the fuck did they kick plasma in the dick for no good reason? Plasma weapons were already kinda shit outside of gravis plasma canon.

>>95906214
True. 5 per army. Fuck, that's two more than I'm currently using LMAO
>>95906217
Not a whole apex detachment as a logistical benefit. A single Vanguard slot. Logistical Benefit cannot take any of the entries found in Apex? Like, can't take one Retinue squad for example?
Damn. Then only 3 Vanguard, and 2... other things

>>95906242
everything else got kicked in the dick too

>>95906236
I have entirely missunderstood logistical benefit. I thought it added a detachment, but it just adds an extra slot to the detachment.

>>95906250
Melta sure as shit did not.
But they basically killed plasma. Why the fuck would i wanna take it with the chance ot over heat for a 5+ breaching?

>>95906244
high command, command, warlord and lord of war are the only ones off-limits for logistical benefit
legion elites and command squads are all gucci

>>95906250
Except bolters

>>95906253
Depending on the cost? Because its still good all round damage. Its S6+ breaching 6+ with multiple shots. Thats a profile you might remember from other guns which are pretty good (autocannons/assault cannons).

Plasma might still be mechanically decent, its just going to be boring.

>>95906175
Every non-autistic legion went deep on manoeuvre warfare and Tartaros was the only Terminator armour which could redeploy en mass quickly enough.

>>95906214
Yeah that's more slots than I even own legion specific units, I think it'll be fine

Plus I really bet there will be legion rules that make certain units take up different slots, or have a different detachment altogether

>>95906251
Yeah, a single entry. Hence I thought I could add one Vanguard slot, but anon says anything found in Apex cannot be added by Logistical, even if it is only a single slot instead of the whole Apex Det

>>95906264
Yeah but assault canons had more shots and were typically on a better platform the terminator.

Not even mathmatically.
Comes out to like, a full 10 man squad is gonna get like maybe 4 breaching shots in? The rest are gonna be regular armor saves, which the prime target for plasma are TEQ, which still is gonna save half of them. and probably same the overwhelming majority of the armor saves.
I just dont get why they had to nerf plasma, no one really took it anyway.

>>95906276
Ask any legion "would you rather have infinite power armor or infinite terminator armor" and all of them would pick terminator armor, even the scars wouldnt be autistic enough to give up the benefits.

Tactics conform to the available resources, not the other way round.

>>95906280
The other thing Logistical Benefit prohibits taking are High Command, Command, Warlord or Lord of War slots

You can certainly take an Army Vanguard slot (Or whatever they're calling veterans now)

>>95906296
Scars used terminator armor plenty, they were doing void warfare for most of the heresy before the final push to the siege

>>95906282
>which the prime target for plasma are TEQ
No more than TEQ being the prime target for assault cannons or autocannons.

Plasma is a very different weapon now, trading high risk-high reward armor cracking for consistent but scaled down firepower at range (with no downside) but an optional and risky mode that does slightly better vs armor.

A 10 man TSS with plasma fires what, 20 s7 shots with breaching 6+ every turn? Who cares about breaching, you just deal consistent damage to basically any target short of a land raider.

>>95906329
Basically: Plasma does something very different now, this does not necessarily mean plasma is mechanically weak. Until we see the points costs plasma could well be very viable, it just wont be "the weapon for getting through heavy infantry armor" but will instead be a generalist weapon reliant more on the number of shots and high strength to deal damage than its breaching.

>>95906324
>They were doing void warefare
I also enjoy the fact that even in space they STILL managed to find a way to use jet bikes, in space.
>>95906329
>Who cares about breaching, you just deal consistent damage to basically any target short of a land raider.
Why would you ever shoot a vehicle with plasma? to glance on 5s?
Anon, plasma got kicked in the dick for no good reason here, actually that a lie, its just to make disintegrators look good which are now just basically plasma guns from 1.0

>>95906344
Disintigrators are S:4 now, they got hit hard as well.

>>95906344
>to glance on 5s?
Yes, because you have lots of shots and low risk now. So you just put your s7/s8 shots into whatever is available/needs killing, once again the same way you would use autocannons or assault cannons in previous editions.

>its just to make disintegrators look good
They do entirely different things now. Also basic disintigrators are fucking awful. Worse than plasma by far.

>>95906344
When you're already wearing a spacesuit, what else is a jetbike except an extra-mobility vehicle?

>>95906369
No i mean like they had special void jet bikes.
They went out of their way to make sure they could still ride bikes in space.

>>95906357
Disintigrators work like how (old) plasma worked, theyre a very high risk weapon designed for killing heavy infantry.
New plasma is a more generalist weapon, designed for putting out lots of hits on units (of which some will breach) and wearing targets down through general firepower rather than AP.

>>95906296
>infinite cataphractii
>need to dump all drop pods and rhino's because too fat to fit.
>need to dump all the bikes and jet bikes, too fat to ride.
>no scouts, no snipers, too fat to hide.
>not enough space in teleportariums to make mass deployment viable because we didn't get infinite teleporter space.
>need to footslog, use birds or use raiders.
>didn't get infinite stormbirds or land raiders either.
>half the legion will be footslogging in bulky clumsy cataphractii, cannot effectively redeploy to exploit enemy weaknesses, begging to be encircled.

You're retarded.

>>95906380
Are the new disintigrators even that good at killing heavy infantry?

>>95906394
No lmao.
Heavy Ds are, but theyre locked the new saturnines which dont seem great.

>>95906394
If they are forcing invulns then yes, if they are forcing invulns and can do d2 damage very much yes.

>>95906394
They're good at killing heavy infantry, basically as good as lascannons
They're just also very good at killing yourself, and will only be usable on units with an invulnerable save or FNP. other wise you lose 1 guy every 4 shots.b

>>95906399
>but theyre locked the new saturnines which dont seem great.
DESU this is the most shocking thing about them. i was really surprised at how incredibly MEH they were.

>>95906393
>and it literally doesent matter because all of your dudes are now walking tanks
Besides, you absolutely CAN put terminators in a rhino, they just only fit 5 rather than 10.

>>95905059
Why call it a Photonic Incinerator, why not just give it a heavy flamer like everything else and not have to deal with every legion complaining they can't swap it out with chem flamers, assault cannons, dragon flamers, and what ever else they have access to swap stuff for?

Why does everything need to be a fucking super special unique weapon? Why can't we have standard issue stuff that legions make special?

>>95906406
Oh, this was specifically for heavy disintegrators. Basically bitch disintegrators are identical to plasma in effectiveness against exactly T4 3+ 2W and worse in every other circumstance.

>>95906409
I think 3 with dual disintigrators is the only usable loadout

>>95906418
Yeah i agree with that, but its expensive to do.
I really was unimpressed with them. Maybe if legions get like legion specific versions of them? Like Dark angels get the dreadwing terminators out of them were they get a power fist and a phosphex heavy flamer maybe?
But right now im pretty un impressed with them.

>>95906409
Its made me rather cautiously optimistic about the balance. The new units (terminators anyways) seem like a well designed thing, some niche functionality and interesting to think about/try to make work without seeming like theyre pushed on you or oppressive. They also manage that without seeming useless, you dont think "god why would I ever take this when Y just does it better", you think "I would take them for X, but do I really need X done?"

>>95906418
Theyre 80ppm and will kill themselves fairly quickly. A squad of 3 will fire 12 shots, hit itself 4 times and then lose roughly a terminator to those self losses. Thats pretty rough from a slow unit that costs that much and is only range 24"
But theres definetly a use for them, make some custodes cry for example.

But I can also see "naked" double plasma saturnine having a use. Just putting out 6 blast templates per turn on soft targets while being really annoying to deal with.
The deepstrike flamer bomb also seems kinda nice. AP3 flamers are very juicy, but it takes the expensive as balls praetor.

>>95905918
>Law of averages
Not a real thing, Anon.

>>95906329
I disagree with everything you just said. Lmao at assault cannons and autocannons being antiTEQ; that has always been plasma's job. Now it isn't. That is wrong. It should be plasma's job.
>Who cares about plasma breaching?
EVERYONE cared about plasma breaching, and that's because we have to care, as if we had forgotten it was full AP2 a few years ago!

>>95906410
Remember when Ferrus Manus tried to yolo charge with a brick of terminators? He got fucking murdered and so did all his terminators.

When tanks get surrounded they die senpai.

>but its ok because we can just stack our rhino's on top of each other.

Lol. Tartaros was the only suit which could replace power armour because tartaros marines are just as mobile as regular marines and can operate independently, the other patterns are only half the strategy, an Anvil without a hammer.

>>95906410
>you absolutely CAN put terminators in a rhino
What kind of retarded fanfiction is this. Give me one example in the rules, novels, or other official sources of terminators riding in rhinos.

>>95906341
This necessary does mean plasma is mechanically weak, and you cannot balance that out with points costs.
It's not what plasma costs. It's what plasma can and cannot do.
Make plasma free if you want; it still won't be able to counter Terminators LIKE IT SHOULD

>>95905996
>Fearless

>>95906446
>Lmao at assault cannons and autocannons being antiTEQ
Anon, I can see youre stupid. But cmon.

Yes, the point is that (clearly) autocannons and assault cannons arent anti TEQ, and that now neither is plasma. Its battlefield role has very evidently been changed, and its performance in that (old) role is clearly not the way to evaluate whether its mechanically good or not.

>. That is wrong. It should be plasma's job.
And yet it isnt. Plasma puts out lots of safe shots (no base overheat) with slight rending chance, it does something else now. If you want to kill terminators at range use another gun.

>>95906462
the damocles command vehicle doesn't contain the rule that would prevent a terminator suited character from using it as best i am aware

>>95905442
don't you hype me anon, an edition where my despoiler are good ?

>>95906465
>it still won't be able to counter Terminators
Illiastus assault cannons do not counter terminators. Guess they suck now. Very intelligent game analysis from the anons at /hhg/.
Autocannons do not counter terminators. Guess they suck now.
Heavy bolters dont counter terminators. Guess they suck now.
Volkite doesent counter terminators. Guess it sucks now...

>>95906425
I would like that a lot, but it's almost definitely not something Games Workshop would do. Happy to be proven wrong of course but I'm not into hopium.
>>95906440
The reason we'll see them is that they're new and shiny, and we get two whole squads in the starter box. As long as they're not actual trash they'll see some use in lists. We've definitely seen a (converted or not) command squad out there so I'm not sure why you'd deepstrike the ranged ones with the praetor (other than having six of them in the starter box)

>>95906481
>Infantry Transport, Page 121 of the Liber Astartes: No model with any versions of the Bulky special rule may Embark on a model that has this special rule.
Try again.

>>95906461
>Remember when Ferrus Manus tried to yolo charge with a brick of terminators?
The entire IH legion had terminator armor? How interesting.
Or do you mean "Ferrus used a formation (shaped by the existing limitations of terminator armor supply) and then sucked at close combat"? Because those are different things.

Having everyone in terminator armor is like having everyone carry a lascannon. Its objectively an upgrade but inherently impossible due to these pesky things called supply lines.

>>95906511
that is indeed present in the rhino entry proper but not so on the variant here

>>95906462
the Anphelion Project does it as an emergency measure, for one mission

I forget the details

>>95906496
You DS the ranged ones because the flamers are potentially just that good. Its a S6 Ap3 flame templates, its absolutely insane into the correct targets. They show up and simply remove a unit in power armor, which might be valuable depending on what you expect to face.

And then you rely on their (admittedly not great) melee abilites and the praetor to deal with whatever is left in the backline.

Theyre also m5 with 24" guns, so its probably the best way to make sure they end up with something to fire at.

>>95906525
Oh, anon...
Even if this wasn't the case, what would you put in there with the command rhino's 6 transport capacity? 3 characters in terminator armour?

>>95906564
one terminator commander with a smol power armoured command squad, obviously
i wasn't aware of the faq change however. neat!

>>95906521
The Exertus Imperialis builds enough lascannons to equip tanks and guard regiments for arming every marine with one to be a rounding error on a Martian ledger.

The reason we don't give every marine a lascannon in the lore is because tacticals are meant to fight light infantry and clear buildings, not snipe tanks on planet bowling ball.

Why do we all shit a brick when we've only seen a sliver of rules, limited profiles, and no liber material?

>>95906589
gw is the great satan

>>95906531
I scoured the books for you. While you are right, this one does specifically state that it's not viable.
An all terminator force would still get absolutely encircled as they struggled to embark/disembark (as the rule states).

Lotta e-gimps in the thread today.

>>95906589
Because the libers will not change that much about basic profiles and weapons.

>>95906589
how much of a turd do you need to see to know it's shit anon?

>>95906584
Tactical marines with lascannons would be superior at killing basically any target than tacticals with bolters.

The reason every marine doesent have lascannons (or any other special weapon) is because supplying and maintaining such a force would be impossible, same reason every marine doesent have volkite.

>>95906625
you should see /wfg/ after the Cathay rules reveal

>>95903238
How bad was the shit vid he put out lmao. I couldn’t make it through the first 5 minutes when he said he’s having 1 and 2w terminators >:(. Gay as hell

>>95906694
Apparently 3+ feel no pain that can't be negated is fair, balanced and lore accurate for Iron Hands

>>95906644
>sweeping a shitty hive world corridor with lascannon tacticals.

>Giant, unwieldy shoulder mounted gun that fires once every few seconds.

>Gets swarmed by Auxillia Veletarii with volkite chargers and get shot to death because the gun can't fire fast enough.

People like you were the reason military procurement kept trying to stick an airburst genade launcher in their rifles.

>>95906721
No way lmao

>>95905627
Women fucking love the tree army

>>95906759
I don't blame them honestly, the trees look great.

>>95906740
>boltgun into veletarii
2*2/3*2/3*1/2 = 0.444
>lascannon into veletarii
1*2/3*5/6 = 0.555

Lascannon is better there too. Youre better off with a bolter against what, militia fuckers probably? But frankly who cares, anything beats militia, and their power is in tanks anyways.

Or do you mean "in universe", where a lascannon is a giant energy cannon that will happily punch through multiple enemies and cover? And you can just railgun down scores of enemy troops in tight corridors.

>>95906462
We used to be a proper wargame.

>>95906740
>People like you were the reason military procurement kept trying to stick an airburst genade launcher in their rifles.
Literally the only reason every infantryman shouldnt have a machine gun or a grenade launcher or whatever is supply lines.

>>95906856
Also weight, cost, reliability, etc.

Found its a lot easier to just be messy with trim and to go back and clean it up later, plus i've also mental gymnastics my way into only paintng the shoulder trim on mooks is how i'm reprecenting artifcier armour

>>9590682

If we're talking about the tabletop you can bring 16 Veletarii with a vexila and a vox interlock for the price of 5 lascannons, bring that shit in zone mortalis and even if youre shooting first you're killing 3 guys then the 13 who are left vapourise the whole HS Squad.

If we're talking about the lore, well I can only say there's a reason breachers use boarding shields, try facechecking a door with a lascannon and you'll need to kneel to get through a door while three chucklefucks are hiding on the other side.

Fun fact, if the legion only used one gun it would lower their logistical overhead due to the fact that they'd only ever need to store and source one kind of ammunition.

The same is true in real life but you sont see every GI carrying a Recoiless Rifle.

There are more concerns in military procurement than just the gun that hits the hardest or is the cheapest.

We pick the guns that do the job our infantry are supposed to do, trying to make them do everything has literally never worked.

>>95906905
>cost
THAT IS SUPPLY LINES
>reliability
ALSO SUPPLY LINES
ANON THOSE FACTORS ARE MATERIAL CONSTRAINTS WHEN THE WHOLE POINT IS THAT DEVOID OF MATERIAL CONSTRAINTS JUST GIVING EVERYONE THE BIGGEST SHIT WOULD BE THE BEST WAY TO DO THINGS

In a world where material limitation isnt a factor you dont even have infantry, you have 100,000 f35s dropping all the missiles in the world every sortie and maybe a tank force rolling in to hold ground if you have anything left unbombed.

Obviously in a world where you have to worry about the cost of equipping each soldier, the reality of supplying everyone with ammo and repairing damaged or lost equipment this isnt what you do, but this entire conversation is centered around a premise where this isnt a factor. This whole conversation is "terminator armor is better than power armor, and if the imperium could supply every space marine with terminator armor they would because it would be an objective upgrade"

>>95902938
>>95902830
Falchion!

>>95906856
Thank God you aren't the one sourcing guns for your government.

>>95906937
I imagine 10,000 F35s would struggle to rescue hostages anon I don't fucking know.

>>95906936
>for the price of 5 lascannons
Yes, the price that factors in the cost of the equipment and its rarity. Now do one where the lascannon is costed like a regular tactical marine, which is the point being made. If tactical marines (or every marine even) could swap their bolters for lascannons for +0ppm then they obviously would do it universally, because its simply a better gun and would be much more powerful. There is a reason a 10 man tactical squad and a 10 man lascannon HSS do not cost the same.

>try facechecking a door with a lascannon and you'll need to kneel to get through a door while three chucklefucks are hiding on the other side.
Just shoot everyone through the door before entering, you have a lascannon. Or use a breaching shield AND a lascannon, we know you can do it.

>We pick the guns that do the job our infantry are supposed to do
Because in real life you are concerned about cost effectiveness. You are concerned about cost effectiveness because you are constrained by costs and supply limitations. If you could give everyone a machine gun or rpg you would do that, but you cant, and therefore you need to make sure that those machineguns and rpgs are used in the most cost effective manner possible. And that every other piece of the military is equally optimal because it too is operating on a finite (even if large) budget.

>>95906472
>now neither is plasma. Its battlefield role has very evidently been changed, and its performance in that (old) role is clearly not the way to evaluate whether its mechanically good or not.
And that is so wrong and makes me so sad :(((
It really should keep on being its job. Disintegrators could also fit in that role just like how Volkite exist (and dominate) in the niche occupied by bolters and heavy bolters. Coexistence IS possible.

>>95906970
Who cares? No one is going to take hostages after the first people who tried ended up having their entire country turned into a parking lot. So what if you lost a couple hostages one time, long term it works out.

>>95906977
>And that is so wrong and makes me so sad :(((
That I can totally agree with and get behind. I dont think plasma is necessarily weak, but it is definitely boring and definitely doesn't feel like how plasma should.

>>95906995
Then I think we should take steps to correct that issue

>>95906937
How much a unit costs has nothing to do with how well troops can be supplied in the field. An M16 and an M249 use the same ammo, so the cost of producing and shipping the munitions got nothing to do with how much the weapon itself costs per unit. Infinity dollars doesn't magically teleport equipment to troops in the field.

>>95906905
wrong. Having a grenade launcher underneath your rifle does literally nothing to decrease the weapon's "reliability" in any possible way, that's some retard fudd-lore like believing an air conditioner or power windows will somehow make your car's engine less reliable. They're entirely separate systems.

And the weight increase is absolutely miniscule for the increase in fighting ability. Hell, soldiers have to carry the same weight in extra ammo because they don't have a launcher to take out the enemy without needing an extra two or three mags.

The only real reason is that rules of engagement don't approve of the collateral casualties of having every squad of soldiers popping off hundreds of expensive grenades whenever they get spooked and an enemy pops off a snap shot towards one of them. It wouldn't help win the "hearts and minds" as the enemy would be sure to hide behind women and children and it'd look bad on camera to have piles of shredded civvies near grenade zones.

Likewise weapons carried by fighter jets and ground units is also dangerous out to 20 km to 200 km+ depending on equipment, but they're almost never allowed to use it at the maximum distances because they're afraid they might hit a non-enemy target.

RoE wouldn't apply in a conflict versus orks, tyranids or knife-ears, so they absolutely would not use partial lethality firepower. They would not walk up to a door with a shotgun and risk losing a whole squad in melee. They'd simply bulldoze the entire thing flat with lascannons. Lascannons just use power packs that can be infinitely recharged, they're far more easily replaced than geneseed of losing space marines to breach houses.

Reading siege #2 the Sons of Horus captain explicitly does this, "those buildings would be the ideal place for defenders to be waiting to ambush us" and simply has his men spend the ammo and wipe it away. And the only reason any of Sigismund's templars hiding in said building survive is it wasnt lascannons.

Dreadnoughts get mediocre rules and suddenly everyone is a logistics expert.

>>95907014
>Infinity dollars doesn't magically teleport equipment to troops in the field.
It does however build more factories and make more ammo, and then fund more trucks/planes/ships/camel wagons to bring that ammo to the troops.
Supply issues are not isolated. The cost of the weapon is not just the cost of building it, its the cost of supplying and maintaining it. The cost of owning a car includes the cost of insurance and petrol. You cant say "I can afford a Ferrari" and then be unable to pay the insurance on it.

>>95906987
No, they'll just annihilate you with nuclear fire instead. The real mistake the legions made was not blowing up every planet they found.

Really space marines never should have left space, just sit in orbit and blow up their enemies.

What's that? The great crusade was meant to United humanity under one banner? We have United them with the ashes of dead worlds, thats a kind of Unification.

That grav vibrator is pretty good. Sure it'll only hit one or two guys but unless they're really cool they're probably getting pinned, and against vehicles it's not that bad either.
It also looks very cool

>>95907017
well sure everyone will want to take logistical benefit in their prime so they don't have to fill out a heavy support auxiliary slot with sub-par dreadnoughts.

>>95907016
>They're entirely separate systems.
So is a rifle and a machine gun. Maybe read what the anon actually posted before going full armchair general.
>And the weight increase is absolutely miniscule for the increase in fighting ability.
Machine guns aren't light. Machine guns with grenade launchers and all the ammo for both even less so. And 99% of the time soldiers are not fighting. Having to lug around more and more gear limits their function, as does having to operate an extra heavy weapon.

>>95907045
That's a funny joke, Anon

>>95907037
>they'll just annihilate you with nuclear fire instead
People who have nukes and people who do hostage crises are pretty distinct circles on a venn diagram.

>>95906918
Yeah, that's the way to do it. Paint from the inside to the outside so you can make every step messy and then just clean up with each following step.

Graviton is Graviton again.

>>95907029
You could've just said "Literally the only reason every infantryman shouldnt have a machine gun or a grenade launcher or whatever is resource cost." instead of bending over backwards to defend your notion that "supply lines" means everything you want it to mean.

With plain Centurions granting x2 aux slots, how many of you are going to have just officers? Did you already? What will they be equipped with?

I keep making lists but it's hard not to take a consul.

>>95907063
not in russia or with Leman Russ involved.

Leman Russ was designed as a social worker meant to fix Angron, bring Magnus home safely and probably bring Curze for therapy sessions. Lion el'Jonson was the one with the legion holding the actual legion-elimination weaponry.

Leman Russ just is so incompetent that he's never done a single thing correctly in his life, so he ignored his actual orders from the Emperor and instead murdered a non-resisting Magnus instead of putting him into a ship and taking him to Terra.

>>95907063
But the formula is the same, if you react with maximum force to every engagement then one day you can never act against a peer or you'll destroy yourself in the war just as surely as your enemy.

Many of the battles fought in the crusade and the heresy were compliance operations against humans, the mission statement of the crusade was not "wi every fight as decisively as possible" it was "conquer the galaxy."

You generally need there to be a galaxy after you've conquered it to be a successful galactic conquerer. If all the Emperor cared about was conquering the galaxy he wouldn't have made astartes he would have kept the stronger, tougher, completely insane thunder warriors.

>>95902672
>1 single dread per slot.

>>95907017
I know what you actually meant. This logistics argument is a waste of calories.

>>95907084
Resource cost == supply lines.

>>95902672
I've been itching to buy a boxnaught. I had one I used in 5e and 6e but the poor lad didn't survive several moves. Tempted to recreate him.

>>95907125
One of the biggest supply side issues with persecuting a war is keeping your soldiers fed, clearly we should go back to robots and mass produce Castellax instead of bothering with astartes at all.

>>95906721
Holy fucking hell lmao. Is that for every unit

>>95907102
>If all the Emperor cared about was conquering the galaxy he wouldn't have made astartes he would have kept the stronger, tougher, completely insane thunder warriors.
But the thunder warriors were an inferior fighting force. Being individually stronger and tougher is great, but if youre a bunch of deranged mentals who cant follow orders and shit you wont be a very good army. Beyond any production issues or whatever.

The space marines werent some humanitarian solution, they were simply the most effective fighting force the emperor could make. (yes, even more than the custodes, because numbers add up) Cost is however included in this. If the emperor was not constrained by things like material supplies and resources he would have probably made armies of purely custodes, but he could never produce them at the required scale.

>>95907149
But anon, with infinity bucks, those soldiers will be eating like kings and living in castles right at the front lines.

>>95907154
Every unit with an apothecary. Because if IH are well known for anything, it is having lots and lots of apothecaries :^)

>>95907157
Yes anon, with infinite money (resources) those soldiers will be well supplied with food and shelter.

>>95907164
Now now anon, let's not be an unfair
It's only a 3+++ BH(1) for tacticals on an objective, for everyone else it's merely 4+++ BH(1)

>>95907155
If the Emperor was not constrained by material concerns there never would have been a crusade, he would have just finished the golden throne and then spammed infinite custodes until all the eldar were dead.

Then since the eldar are canonically soul bound to the webway and the Emperor doesn't know this the whole webway would get eaten by slaanesh and he'd be cucked forever.

>gw said theres some kind of reveal tomorrow
>not anything to do with the saturnine stuff
>wasnt mentioned beforehand

what could it be?

>>95907170
Infinite resources dont mean infinite personel. Who builds the shelters, who moves the food, how do you find the time to do both while at the same time building the planet side infrastructure to charge hundreds of thousands of lascannons.

>>95907188
One or more of the following:
>New skitles
>New janitors
>Journal
>New Consul Box and how Legions mod the FOC
>Plastic Aircraft
>New MK2 Battle Force Box

>>95907188
I'd guess some characters

>>95907188
mk4 tacticals

>>95907188
plastic emperor, valrak and macca both agree

>>95907188
I really want to see the rules for that turret

>>95907176
If the Emperor was not constrained by material concerns he would have just built the City from Blame and have it eat the whole Galaxy

>>95907197
>Who builds the shelters, who moves the food, how do you find the time to do both while at the same time building the planet side infrastructure to charge hundreds of thousands of lascannons.
The infinite robots you can afford. You have infinite money, you clearly reached fully automated space communism tier bullshit.

>>95907188
The leaks were fake, heres the real rulebook.

>>95906937
anon ignoring your whole supply line stuff, you can't just give every soldier machineguns or grenade launchers, they can't carry enough ammo or extra barrels, and it would be almost impossible to assault and maneuver if everyone had those weapons. Real life isn't 5 minutes matches from CoD, soldiers need to march and stable supply line against an equal enemy is not 100% guaranteed.

>>95907164
Fucking hell lmao

>>95907188
Games Workshop is bought by Hasbro

>>95907188
LIgma

>>95907234
>they can't carry enough ammo or extra barrels
Thats supply lines. You cannot provide your soldiers enough new equipment or munitions, this is a limitation of your supply lines.

>and stable supply line against an equal enemy is not 100% guaranteed.
Yes? I know that. But in this instance, where material limitations are explicitly ignored, it is.

>>95907227
So that's how the men of iron happened.

>>95907260
I will simply build more robots to fight any that rebel.

>>95907248
Isn't Hasbro going bankrupt atm?

>>95907264
The men of iron didn't rebel, they just came to the logical conclusion that an optimised himan society had no humans.

>>95907284
Thats fine then.

>>95907197
>Infinite resources dont mean infinite personel.
Sure it does. Infinity resources to feed infinity people to make 2.5 infinity babies to infinity. How hard is this to understand? I have created the perfect system and you pea brains will not stand in the way of my perfect infinity victory!

>>95905954
More than likely it means every 1 to hit generates X hits on the firing unit

>an optimised himan society had no humans.
@grok is this real?

>>95907353
We know thats what it means, the rules article says so.

>>95907255
>Thats supply lines. You cannot provide your soldiers enough new equipment or munitions, this is a limitation of your supply lines
The trucks and logistical troops are behind the frontlines anon they don't follow your troop into combat and soldiers could be stuck in combat for days before getting fresh supplies.

>But in this instance, where material limitations are explicitly ignored, it is.
even with infinite materials your enemy can attack your supply lines or surround you.

>>95907016
Different anon here, how do lascannon packs get recharged? They are far bigger than a lasgun's – it would take more than a week of sunlight!
Are lascannons the teslas of heavy weapons >.>

>>95907279
I wouldn't say that. The last 10 years were much better but they are still around year 2015 level which was a 15 year high by then. Funny side note though: they ditched 3% of employees to cover increased taxes for toys in China. Guess the orange man has no fucking clue how shitty his politics are. But hey, we always get what we deserve.
Maybe GW buys Hasbro.

>>95907082
Heavy D (oof) is +1D when stationary?

>>95907391
They could also make the shitty toys in america instead, you know
It's not exactly advanced technology

>>95907188
Updated scale custodes with optional female heads.

>>95907403
Yes.

>>95905907
Because thus far, everything BUT tactical is shit.
This is not a salvageable edition, Even worse with the primaris bigger batman syndrome they had to infect 30k with.

>>95907082
wtf kind of target needs Ap3 and 4 Damage?

>>95907403
Yes

>>95907087
Depends. How many extra slots is a Praetor? I often only bring a single HQ. Guess I'm going to bring an apex detachment, an aux Heavy Transports detachment, and use both Logisticals for big guys or something

>>95907426
Automata, Ogryns, Daemons, Vehicles. Shit

>>95907426
>wtf kind of target needs Ap3 and 4 Damage?
Castellax? Ruinstorm demons? Charonites? Clumped light vehicles/speeders?

>>95907432
A praetor let's you take 1 extra apex or auxiliary Detachment. Not very many on their own. If you don't care about apexes take a Centurion instead.

>>95907411
it's more about selling to China

>>95907432
High Command is just +1 apex detachment or auxillary. Some special characters or warlord traits might change that though.

>>95907188
soon...

>>95907426
it's lost the old special wounding roll, so to compensate it has reasonably high AP, Breaching and enough damage to auto-delete most infantry and seriously hurt most Dreadnoughts

>>95907432
You can only take the logistics prime once per detachment

>>95907391
It also did not help that Hasbro bought wizards of the coast and then proceeded to drive that fucking branch into the ground and ruined a lot of the DnD franchise as a result.
That did more damage to them then taxes in china.

Whats the point in femdtodes if they aren't cute?

>>95907473
To push an agenda and dilute a hobby space with politically motivated changes that are not warranted, needed, or wanted by anyone who actaully has spent time in the fandom/hobby.

>>95907459
A plain Centurion with logistics would still be pretty great, two aux detachments and one bonus slot. He could take 3 Dreads alone. At that point hes a psuedo consul.

>>95907411
Noooo the labor and tooling costs!

>>95907188
I think its either the cum or custards.

>>95907486
I wonder if mortifactors will be able to take extra dreadnought.

>>95907454
The wolf pack rapes the lion

>>95907493
Probably. That's their whole thing after all

>>95907528
Or they'll be forced to take 1 dreadnought.

>>95907188
THey still have the turret's rules to show.
Did they mentioned the article NOT being about Saturnine ?
They could also show us some flyers rules or begin to show legion rules but I think it's too soon for that.
My money is on the flyers rules preview.

>>95907473
GW will look at any "40k community", doesn't matter if it's /40kg/ 40k reddit, 40k facebook, whatever and see a bunch fem primarch, fem kreigers and god forbid 6 gorrillion tau smut pics and think to themselves it's free money from coomers.

>>95906496
I think 6x plasma + fist + flamer with a praetor DSing will be fairly useful without automatically blowing themselves up
Their plasma/particle flamer overloads will only wound on 4s thanks to the thermal diffraction shield, and probably won't roll breaching so will be saved on a 2+

The disintegrators I think are a real trap option if there's no way to give them reroll 1s to hit. The thermal shield only works against plasma/flamers/melta, and unlike the other guns they're going to be going wounding themselves on 3s and at AP2

>>95905059
This is some absolute bullshit they made just to sell the new toys
We just spent a whole edition complaining about how annoying to kill dreadnoughts are and these cunts just made them easy to kill just to introduce a whole new batch of units that are a pain in the ass.
T8 with -1S from most things that hurt them and even more wounds that the other dreads and is retarded

>>95907643
>charges with tactical squad
>completely unable to extricate itself with 2 attacks at ws4

>>95907426
Mechanicum.

Double drill leviathans will be good

How useful do you think the Ruined Underhive Sector necromunda terrain or the Boarding Patrol terrain will be in 3E?

An online shop has a set of each like 40% off, though even then it's still pricy enough that maybe getting FDM or laser cut stuff may still simply be the smart choice.

>>95905059
These guns are 90% detail for the sake of detail
They look abhorrent
I also can't imagine how much the leviathan guns are going to suck balls this edition if this is what a 350p model gets...

>>95907687
You need two copies of boarding patrol terrain set for a 4x4 zone mortalis board. You're literally better off just buying a FDM printer, learning it, and printing the terrain.

>>95907687
Those kits are outright robbery even by gw standards

Seems like dreadnoughts got nerfed, tanks got nerfed, terminators got nerfed. We in the run 100-200 niggas edition?

>Everything has been nerfed
>Except Man portable heavy weapons which have been buffed into the heavens

>>95907698
thank you, that was my hunch, I really don't know why GW insists on such terrible deals on terrain at all times.

>>95907704
>tanks got nerfed
Citation needed?

>>95907643
The dude has 2 attacks that hit at AP -
He literally cannot kill a tactical squad on average rolls over the course of a whole game if they get in melee

>>95907655
This lol. Literally surround it with ankle bitters and it cant do shit.
Gets fucking mogged on by a tactical squad and a SGT with a powerfist.

>>95907705
>>Except Man portable heavy weapons which have been buffed into the heavens
Like what?

>>95907718
Neither could most dreads last edition even if they had a fist. You are probably not making it into melee tho.

>>95907715
Source: Outer Circle (probably)

>>95907715
>Infantry are more mobile with heavy weapons
>Can lose multiple HP per hit
>Can be glanced into being useless

>>95907704
>Seems like dreadnoughts got nerfed
Warrented and justified.
>tanks got nerfed
HUH? they lost the vehicle damage table so you cant get TKOed from a single shot. fuck are you on?
>terminators got nerfed
Terminators profile is not going to change and there is a general reduciton in Breaching weapons with plasma getting kicked in the dick.
>Muh melta!
Were already 1 shotting terminators.

>>95907731
>Like what?
The fact they can move freely with no downside and gets buffs for standing still, multi damage stats.

>>95907738
>>95907738
>Infantry are more mobile with heavy weapons
Holy shit stop pushing this meme 10 lascannons can barely kill a Rhino on the move

>>95907731
There are multiple ways to get into melee without just eating a ton of shit, even if you stagger charge two separate units of tacticals you've got the guy locked down with units that still manage to cost almost half what he does

>>95907752
>Warrented and justified.
No, it wasn't, dreadnoughts should be insanely strong, they are cool models, the issue wasn't how strong they are, it's spam, if you could only take like 2 per a list it would be fine

>>95907738
The only one that actually matters is melta which is going to be asininely expensive i would wager.
LC got kicked in the fucking dick hard.

>>95907763
It's not a meme and its not just about shooting at tanks, they invalidate tanks, since they do a tanks job better.

>>95907785
>No, it wasn't, dreadnoughts should be insanely strong
They were, there is a reason why there was a universal house rule of 1 dread per 1000. Because they were BROKEN.
They were not just strong, they were stupid strong and stupid cheap.

>>95907738
>>Can lose multiple HP per hit
Yea cuz they didn't do that before
>>Can be glanced into being useless
Yea cuz they didn't do that before
>Infantry are more mobile with heavy weapons
D1 lass canons are not going to be useful no matter how much you insist on it
Vehicles can now shoot back with all their weapons. You are not moving outside your designated ruin

>>95907752
>Terminators profile is not going
Terminators will be T5
GW can't help themselves

>>95907798
>there was a universal house rule of 1 dread per 1000.
Which the force org effectively creates, you can only take a few dreadnoughts before you ruin the rest of your army.
>they were stupid strong and stupid cheap.
Dreadnoughts should be, they are cool models and the cooler a models the better it should be and dreadnoughts are the coolest

>>95907815
I swear to fucking god, if Termiantors got to T5 and bikes are still fucking T4, im going to rage shit.
>>95907819
Being cool does not mean they should be busted broken as fuck.

>>95907694
not really, it's literally just the same design cues of graviton and conversion weapons upscaled.

>>95907797
350 points for T4 10W 3+ save is decidedly not better than a tank in one REALLY critical area

>>95907785
Fuck off, you sound like an eldarfag from 7th edition

>>95907353
>>95907357
Nah it means on a 2 or less. No way that, on a 1, you get hit twice. It's on a 2–1 that you get hit. Once.

>>95907738
the watershed for tanks is entirely what distribution of immune-to-pinning mcguffin generators will come on statcards in liber and/or from liber legion traits.

If your 400 point tank gets shot once and it's main gun hit chance changes from 3+ to 5+ because pin, then tanks are dead all edition. If all the meaty tanks just say immune-to-pin-status due to bullshitanium matrices, then tanks will likely be viable.

>>95907791
you have to remember reactions get a bullshit stationary treatment even on sprinting lascannons. You can be 100% invincible out of sight while enemy takes turn 1, jump out and 10x1D lascannon into something, then on their turn if that tank tries to shoot you, 10x2D lascannon reaction and that's 30D potential downrange, then on your turn a potential 50D unless you decide to move and 40D if running around yet again.

If GW designers were even slightly capable of rules, reactions would always be snap shots or count as moving. There is no excuse for a unit's damage output to go to 300% because they're in danger, that would reduce their fighting ability as they were distracted and getting jostled or forced to hug terrain.

>>95907830
>Fuck off, you sound like an eldarfag from 7th edition
N-no! OK warp spiders are n-not that broken,

S-s-stop saying im a WAAC F-fag because i bring max dark lances ok its not that strong!

Wh at do you mean? the FW rules are totally fine and balanced, my bike squad with stacking powers is totally reasonable.

>>95907785
another 'if its cool! no one should have fun with the game' take, retarded take.

>>95907451
>>95907453
No way a Centurion lets you bring two auxiliary detachments but a full size Praetor only one, of either Apex or Regular kind.
>>95907459
Yeah. One Logistical in the Main detachment, and another on in the Apex or Aux detachment. That's two.

>>95907842
>you have to remember reactions
You have to remember too that units only get to react ONCE per turn. meaning no shooting in both movement, shooting, and assault phase. Lay into them with one unit and charge them with another problem solved.

>>95907805
>D1 lass canons are not going to be useful no matter how much you insist on it
I'm not talking about that with that point, stop putting words in my mouth, I'm talking about tanks no longer having use, the only reasons tanks exist is to move big guns more effectively but they can't, they will put out less shots, doubly so of they move more. You can have a ten man squad of autocannon marines with a free bonus 7" threat range able to move to hit anything

>>95907832
It's either of these two interpretations, and the math is the same either way

If X is number of hits: 1/6 of attacks will cause X hits = X/6 chance to be hit every attack
If X is min roll to overload: X/6 of attacks will cause 1 hit = X/6 chance to be hit every attack

>>95907826
>>95907847
This game is all about the rule of cool.

>>95907830
>>95907843
And you sound like a WAACfag, this game is about smashing your cool toys together, not being balnced.

>>95907878
>This game is all about the rule of cool.
Yeah wanna know whats not cool? Spamming broken fucking units that is not fun to play against.

JFC you must have a custode army and then lie to your self and say "No custodes are totally fine they are just cool thats why i run them."
Fuck off.

>>95907850
>No way a Centurion lets you bring two auxiliary detachments but a full size Praetor only one, of either Apex or Regular kind
It's a very good way to give viability to small characters

>>95907878
>N-no, don't touch my broken as fuck unit that warps the entire game around them!
>Y-you're a WAACfag!
Holy fucking kek, you gotta be trolling.

>>95907878
You don't get to call him a WAACfag when you think how dreads were in 2.0 was cool.

>>95907705
>>Everything has been nerfed
>>Except Man portable heavy weapons which have been buffed into the heavens
Death Guardbros... Is it our edition?

>>95907942
>>95907942
>>95907942

>>95907832
>Nah it means on a 2 or less. No way that, on a 1, you get hit twice
We literally know it does. Thats what the number means, the number of hits you suffer.

>>95907894
>>95907913
>Spamming broken fucking units that is not fun to play against.
I never said anyting about spamming them, i said that issue has been fixed with the force org. I only ever took two dreads in my old 3k list, a levi and a conteptor, i never spammed dreads, however if I'm only getting two of them they should be good and stay fo awhile, because they are cool and i want to use my cool things, not have them blown up right away and left with the boring stuff. And I'm not the one taking Venators, Legion elietes and spartans in 1k games like the rest of the people i play with.

>>95907934
I don't care about winning, this game is about creating cool stories with your models, and its boring a story when the cool stuff doesn't do anything, same way i think characters, espcially praetors should be fighting eachother not babysitying some backline unit or being a tax

>>95907694
They are supposed to be archaic experimental weapons make sense they look like a bunch of gribbles and not a standardized industrial pattern.

>>95905591
playing custodes is unfun