Thread 95907942

>>95908333
Months? I give it a week.

>>95908370
You know, now that I put it this way "roll 4 1s and your 350pts walker kills itself" is pretty fucking bad. Thats what 88pts for your opponent every time you roll a 1?

>>95908172
15" is a risky range but if they're close they might also be in nipple flamer range which can be up to 4 stunning templates or breaching, and you have a second arm gun.

>>95908413
You don't even need to roll 4 1s because of overload (2), it's not out of the question for a saturnine to do more damage to itself than it could ever do to an enemy unit

>>95908431
Statistically you do.

>>95908424
Reactions dont cause any status effects now. Cant stun on overwatch.

So who's going to retype the entire damn ruleset into something legible?

>>95908448
Back in my day people didn't read the ruleset, they just learned to play by listening to other players explain the game.

>>95908441
2 rolls of 1 gives 4 hits that wound on 3+ and are saved on a 4++, with only 3 needed to get through to kill, and only 2 to leave it on 2 wounds from full health
The variability there is non-trivial, especially over multiple shooting phases, and if it takes any damage at all from the enemy the chances of it exploding skyrocket

>>95908441
>>95908431
Its also worth mentioning that the statistics here "lie" a little. The way the breakpoints work mean you arent actually likely to kill with only 4 1s.

The way the maths works out is: overload(2) and a 4++ cancel out to only 1 self hit inflicted. At 2/3 to wound you need 12 damage to deal 8 wounds. 12/3 is 4. But in reality you need more than that. You need 3 wounds to get through, so you need to have 3*3/2 hits or 4.5. So 5, rather than 4.

>>95908448
>the drill
I'm still mad they erased it from 40k.

>>95908467
I think you're being a little too attached to averages here, and should be looking at the total outcome % spread, as it doesn't converge very neatly around the average due to the high variability involved in a 4++ save

>>95908467
That would only make sense if a 4++ was guaranteed to half your hits taken, which in a small sample size like this is not a very good indicator unless you want to average out over hundreds of games

>>95907942 (OP)
and they said plasma got no AP 3 this edition...

>>95908493
>if a 4++ was guaranteed to half your hits taken
Statistically? yea it is.

>>95908503
Is it actually?

>>95908510
4 Sicaran autocannons with marine stats on a cheap platform sounds decent

>>95908003
>30k isn't meant to be like the books that got everyone into 30k
back to /40kg/

>>95908545
nta, but I've never read a 30k book before. I got into it because i impuse bought the calth box.

>>95907942 (OP)
For a model so large and costing so many points I expected the Saturnine dread to be able to fucking obliterate shit but god its guns are awful. Also the fact that the only stat line difference between it and a leviathan is ONE wound is absurd

>>95908540
Depends if those cannons have any special rules

>>95908571
>between it and a leviathan is ONE wound is absurd
It has a 4++

>>95908571
It takes 25% less damage from the nasty guns.

And it CAN obliterate shit, under the right circumstances.

>>95908560
The overwhelming majority of players first got interested by reading Horus Rising
And it's a big part of listbuilding to try and recreate lore accurate forces
(also imo encouraging yourdudes too much is how you end up with pride flag marines)

Hey AT nerds, thinking about maybe diving in to Titans but I want to read the rules without spending $334 Kiwi dollars. I know the MEGAs are down but does anyone have any idea where I can find the rules or the compendium?

Bonus Q, if the Open Engine War cards were available to me, should I get them now? Are they hard to find, and I'd regret it later if I didn't get them when I had the chance?

>>95908586
>It takes 25% less damage from the nasty guns.
Actually more, since it reduces the strength of plasma, flamer, las and melta weapons. If it doesent kill itself (or get into combat) the saturnine dread is really tough.

>>95908608
It plays like baby battletech

>>95908615
>if you don't kill yourself
Another win for Grav Chads

>>95908623
That does not provide me with any workable frame of reference. I mostly just want to model and paint shit, the game aspect is pretty whatever to me. I just want to read the lore and get a feel for how this shit works

>>95908608
Get the open war cards.
I can drop the rules when I get home from work in five or so hours.

>>95908677
Fuck yeah my guy, thank you

>>95908608
lemme see what i got PDF wise, i can probably find atleast the base rule book for you to start digging into how the game plays

>>95908635
I've tried sorting it out but imgur is being a dick, looks like others have you coveted

So when does the new mk2 and fellblade come out?

>>95908748
Prefer not to say

>>95908748
My guess would be before or around the 29th

>>95908767
The 29th year of the twenty first century

Knights

>>95908783
Nice-ghts.

>>95907943
>>>Everything has been nerfed
>>>Except Man portable heavy weapons which have been buffed into the heavens
>Death Guardbros... Is it our edition?
On the contrary. Death Guard had it so good last edition now their exclusive traits shall be plundered by commies and redistributed among the masses. Everyone will get to be a Death Guard

>>95907960
Good, get fucked rifleman dreads. Rip and tear. Weapon skill 4 fuck it, we ball

>>95908608
you still in the thread, anon?

>>95908265
Pft ask GROND if he feels jobless

>>95908287
>>Vehicles in the dumpster
They can no longer explode. Lascannons do 1-2 damage to them. Meltas need to be super close and even then only wound on 5-6.
How are vehicles trash? What else do you need??

>>95908287
>Plasma destroyed
>Normal disintegrators neutered (S4 AP3)
>Meltas always S8, no longer rolls 2d6
I'm not that convinced

I was promised AP2 plasma 3000 years ago

Does anyone know a good paint recipe for the oily carbon steel good for Iron Hands?

>>95908900
>Spray black
>dry brush iron warrior
>Dry brush necron compound
>vallejo black wash

>>95908869
My guess they're trying to encourage us to take tank destroyers
Better buy a venator and a sabre neutron beam

>>95908821
here's your new trait deathguard
"FNP(6+) against attacks which are strength 4 or less"
Thx for giving everyone else your move-and-shoot.

>>95908791
Thanks

>tfw felt like a special snowflake with my disintegrator nullificators
>now everyone is going to have them
man

>>95908961
I just hope my nullifactors will be usable now

>>95908821
With the flamer changes, alchem-flamers might be really good

>>95908545
Bitch you only reveal how much of an absolute fucking fetus you are. People playing Heresy games is what allowed BL to justify the Heresy series, not the other way around. Index Astartes and Visions are why we have 30K, not your gay slashfic saga.

>>95908961
>badass seeker sarge with the combu disintegeator is now fucking useless.
Thanks James.

>>95909002
>Horus Rising released 2006
>Horus Heresy Book 1: Betrayal released 2012

Bro come on

does anyone have the old Index Astartes PDFs? I remember they were more enjoyable and less cringe than most of the new primarch novels and retconned lore.

>>95909016
Maybr combi weapons will fire over and over like in 40k now?

>>95909096
no, the quick play rules say the combi-melta can be used as a bolter indefinitely and as a meltagun once only; it's possible combi-weapons as a thing are gone too and you'd need firing protocols to fire both in one round

>>95908900
Find photos of the sort of metal & finish you are going for. Look at the colors in the metal (like brown, dark blue, and a slightly desaturated teal in this image). Paint the surfaces with those colors and push the saturation, and do some volume highlights. You don't really need to do any blending or be clean for that step. Then do a very light drybrush of leadbelcher or similar, and do edge highlights with a brighter silver.

>>95908843
I would but I can't find him.

>>95909114
He's probably applying for a transfer to a drop pod assault list.

>>95909032
>Visions of Heresy - original run 2004-2006
>Index Astartes - WD run starting in 2000, compilations starting in 2002
Once again "bro" you reveal yourself as a fucking newfag poseur.

>>95909106
>inb4 combi-bolters count as two bolters and also need firing protocol to fire both guns

>>95909121
>>95909032
Oh and before you dig yourself any deeper, Dave Taylor's famous Custodes army was made in 2004, so suck shit, people were already Heresy gaming before FW's rules were a twinkle in the fatman's eye.

>>95909121
>>95909134
Trolling used to be believable

How would one build a not OP custodes list? I heard that taking the meridian guard squads is frowned upon, whats the answer? Just lots of basic troops? Tanks? The big dreads?

Would making half the list sisters of silence work?

I know the answer will probably be some variation of "don't play custodes", but I'm sure there must be a way to make them suboptimal

>combi bolters might very well just be 2 bolters now
>heavy flamers now have Panic
>reaper autocannons might have extra shots too
>ranged AP2 less available now
>AP2 melee cut
Terminators are gonna be boss.

Went digging through the bin my fine cast chaplain was in and found some more truly ancient models. They've been sitting in storage for nearly decades at this point. One was partially painted. Cracked two open and made a Forge Lord and what will be a Mortifactor. The partially painted one will be a Praevian. The last chaplain I am not sure. I have a jump chaplain already, maybe I just have a foot one.

What is everyone else working on?

>>95909177
Wait until the new edition coming out within a few weeks and pray GW somehow managed to do the balance better this time.

>>95909146
I bet you fake grog don't even know about there being HH models before HH was even a thing.

>>95909208
My knight is now in subassemblies just in time for a heat wave to keep me from priming it.

>>95909226
>Here's a banner pole, kid.

>>95909226
>>95909134
>>95909121
>>95909002

who are you trying to impress exactly?

>>95909226
not the person you're replying to but back when this model was released, leman russ was the chapter master of the space wolves and the horus heresy didn't even exist as a concept
It's a "heresy model" like the 1988 rhino is a "heresy model"

Seeing as how I bought bits to make some freeblade kitbashes I guess I'm gonna be making a Knight army this edition.

>>95908608
Rulebook + Traitor + Loyalist + Campaign Compendium. I think that's enough for the rules. Mechanicum Spider also got rule, but they never got book, and it's a mess, and also pretty exploitative.

https://litter.catbox.moe/p8otk4bny2ie1myi.rar

>>95909345
Stay the fuck out of melee and remember: you can always put that tall guy in reserve or behind terrain.

>>95909186
8thification begins

Be real with me, let's say I show up to a game with about 240 of these guys (with strategic gas mask headswaps) intermingled with 100 others in the exact same style but with dynamic poses
As militia
Would I be a dick? Or are these models acceptable?

>>95909438
I'm gonna deploy in the open and go full speed forward immediately in order to get into melee, I think.

>>95909465
That's the intended Militia army.

>>95909465
i would think its funny, cool, ask you to play deploy them then 'deepstrike' my claw hammer on your models.

>>95909465
militia army is explicitly described as being giga varied, and having anything from highly advanced laser weaponry to literal black powder muskets.

It's 100% kino anon. Militia is just whatever troops random worlds can muster - you can have loinclothed cavemen with clubs and spears.

>>95909483
>>95909487
>>95909490
>>95909492
Thanks fellas
I just got worried because I heard about a guy who showed up with a massive horde of terrible militia models to an event and everyone hated him
I didn't want to be that guy

>New unit for 3.0!
>It's the first batches of Primaris, that Cawl first designed back in the Heresy!

>>95909510
>>It's the first batches of Primaris, that Cawl first designed back in the Heresy!
I'm over AoS and accept it as the high fantasy slop it is, I will never get over Primaris and how they were introduced. Cunts.

>>95909508
Throw in an appropriate amount of scifi stuff and it should be fine.

>>95909532
My issue with them is that the whole point of 40k is that old shit is better. Today's MBTs were tractors back during teh DAoT. If you wanted to make numarines that badly, just say they found new STCs, don't pull a "actually we had this guy who could design thigns better than the Emperor, but he was never in frame in all the group pics back in the day". Just say "oh Guilliman returned so we can use his purer geneseed to improve existing marines back to 30k days, and the armor is just an STC we found during one of the recent crusades. Grav stit too. Also gives you an excuse to make the 30k oldmarines bigger too, pull a "this is what proper astartes are supposed to look like"

>>95909532
AoS is just a completely different setting, much easier to be seen as separate from WFB.

With nu-40k not so much, it still is the same setting that GW tried to move forward. Meaning it constantly reminds you how much more interesting the old fluff was, and how much the new stuff is just dull soulless corporate slop.

>>95909508
Main thing is the scale needs to be (roughly) right.

If the models are noticably too large or small, than yeah it looks like horrible dogshit.

>>95909550
Goddamnit Anon it's been years and I'm not getting sucked into the same damn saltfest again.

>>95909550
>My issue with them is that the whole point of 40k is that old shit is better.
Even that is a retcon of older fluff. For example, in 2e Chaos plasma is older, more dangerous and Chaos troops use older, cruder armour marks, while Imperials have advanced forms of plasma and power armour. There even used to be brand new inventions post-Heresy. Now everything was either around during Heresy, based on something older and merely rediscovered, or just worse than what was rediscovered during the Crusade and Heresy. It's a bit tiresome. Especially when they're putting that same stuff into HH now where terminators are now Unification War inventions with technology that is becoming rarer by the time of the Heresy. They really can only make one story over and over.
>Today's MBTs were tractors back during teh DAoT.
Predators and Land Raiders were already DAoT battle tanks.

Quite frankly, I would've made Primaris as a new strand of Inductii. Maybe Cawl could've figured out how to use the God Maker organ to synthesize some growth hormone thing to speed up the process the same way primarch genes were used to stabilize accelerated marine processing during the Crusade. You could've even tied some of the failed Foundings to his research as he experimented on perfecting the method. Then, once completed, you could have big hulking space marine shock troopers in crude armour and big guns to bolster the ranks in times of need. But they were never meant to expand the marine range, just replace it.

Can any Mechanicum kings in the thread explain to me how the army actually functions? They’re really cool and very different as an army compared to any other GW army out there

I realize that the new edition is almost here so existing rules advice will is basically meaningless, I mean more in broader strokes of what units do what and what a typical force usually looks like

>>95909674
>how the army actually functions?
Big robots

>>95909674
You place the robot on the table, you laugh as it spams the big plasma, you laugh when your robo-primarch snipes their warlord with precision shots, and you cry when you get charged because evne your melee units are only WS4 and not Contemptors

>>95908829
Still here

>>95909550
Old shit is better…sometimes

Part of the reason the Imperium uses what it uses is because STCs are incredibly sacred to the Mechanicum/s, and so if their tractor STC is what they think a battle tank should be, then you’ll get hundreds of millions of them
It doesn’t change the fact that a leman Russ is a shitty death trap, but you have it being made in religiously inspired numbers

Individual weapon systems, suits of armor and void ships can all be better the older they get, but that doesn’t mean stuff can’t progress or get better…except the mechanicus hates that so it doesn’t often

Mk8 power armor was already meant to be an across the board improvement over the earlier marks (which aren’t based on STCs at all) so this idea isn’t anything new

The biggest difference with primaris are that they:
A) have a new organ that works when they’re on the verge of death to let them either go berserk or survive otherwise catastrophic wounds in a critical injured state
B) they’re just easier to make

Similarly, most of Cawls equipment that Primaris have are slight upgrades over regular gear but typically the biggest advantage is that it’s just available in more numbers since it’s being manufactured all over the place now by him and his fiefdoms

Even stuff like the hover tanks aren’t really new, 30k isn’t any stranger to hover land raiders. He just figured a way to start getting that stuff made again

Terminator armor is canonically still the best suit that a marine can get

>>95909394
This is perfect, thanks so much anon. These scans look CRISP.

>>95909685
You are speaking very convincing words

>>95909686
Robo-primarch? Is that decimus or whoever

Also which robot is actually the melee one? Castellax have big crusty fists that seem cool but they’re only WS3

Do you buff them with tech wizardry or something

>>95909691
was gonna drop you a link, but i see someone beat me to it
enjoy the AT stuff, i love the game, think its the best GW ruleset ever made, titans dying is particularly fun.

>>95909712
>Robo-primarch
You give a thanatar calix paragon of metal which lets it shoot its big lascannon like a sniper rifle

>>95909702
>STCs are incredibly sacred to the Mechanicum/s
Because they're better than anything they can make on their own. Compare Ragnarok to a Leman Russ or Baneblade to a Macharius. Non-STC designs are just inferior.
>It doesn’t change the fact that a leman Russ is a shitty death trap
Which was still superior to the Malcador which it replaced and Horus even put priority to troops loyal to him to get priority shipments.
>Mk8 power armor was already meant to be an across the board improvement over the earlier marks
MkVIII was just MkVII with some improvements to the protection. MkVII that was finalized during the Siege.
>(which aren’t based on STCs at all)
There might not be specific power armour mark STC, but a lot of technology was discovered during the Crusade that went into the MkIV upon which all later marks are based on, so to think no STC technology went into any power armour is unlikely. Remember, the only STC in the Land Speeder is the grav-plates and Land Raider is based on half of a schematic. Also, STC technology is still technology used by Mars and Terra, just in a user friendly form.

Have you seen any Heresy-era Alphas that use their old metal CSM pads?

>>95909550
I'm fine with Cawl "making better marines". He isn't.
Cawl was given data that the original technicians didn't have (the left part of the Primarch organ) and even some that the Emperor didn't have (selenite Magna Mater), and after 10,000 years all he managed to do is to make ONE legion (100k marines) with the following enhancements:
1. A few inches taller
2. A third adrenal gland
3. Metallic tendons
That's about it. Look at 40k 10E: both firstborn and primaris are 2W. In fact Primaris are the Imperium's response to catch up with Cult Marines
Imperial Technology to emulate the daemonically-blessed

Instead, what Cawl did better was putting (pre-existing) grav-plates back in circulation, with all those new floaty tanks. And then also tweaked some guns.

All doable in ten thousand years.

>>95909635
>You could've even tied some of the failed Foundings to his research as he experimented on perfecting the method.
Indeed, but it's a secret, so we cannot mention that. Not even GW, apparently lmao

>>95909712
You cna buy the upgrade "Paragon of Metal" for one big robot that makes it your Robo-Primarch. You put it on Thatar Calix (the one with the long cannon) and snipe their warlord.
>Which one is melee
Trick question, even your supposedly melee units are WS4 and are better off shooting. The "main" melee units would be the Myrmidon Secutors (better off just shooting plasma) adn the various fast attack boops (Vorax, Ursarax, Arlatax) but again S4 and decent guns so don't charge melee marines

>>95909792
Funny how it doesn't sound so bad when you downplay everything.

>>95909712
>Do you buff them with tech wizardry or something
Yes, you have a bunch of hackernan not-psychic disciplines

>>95909834
I already travelled that road, anon. It literally is a cope mechanism

There's going to be a tiny melee phase in the middle of the shooting phase, just like the volley fire stuff only in reverse.

>>95909918
I would very much like to use up one of my attacks to shoot my pistol in combat, to be honest.

>>95909939
but what happens when you have a hand flamer?

>>95909944
1d3 auto hits

What would be more useful as an ally detachment for IW, Salamanders or Alpha legion? Salamanders for super tanky termies, Alpha legion for Exodus and recon marines.

>>95909939
Then play necromunda.

>>95909939
This is literally what volley fire and gun down is

>>95909939
If I lose a combat I should be allowed to overload my plasma pistol and mutual kill the enemy sergeant as I'm going down.

What the fuck do you even put inside a triaros

>>95909918
Spears may now be thrown in the shooting phase but you can't use them again unless that squad charges the unit.

>>95910201
20 secutarii hoplites.

God I hope we finally get plastic bikes so I can do a Night Lords biker army. I don't even care if we lost the Swift Blade Rite of War.

>>95910214
Okay fair

>>95910217
You won't.

>>95910254
I mean it's more likely than getting a Night Lords specific consul.

>>95910272
Both are 0 chance.

>>95910217
>Night Lords got a better bike Rite of War than White Scars
>Night Lords have better night fighting than Raven Guard
Are Night Lords secretly based?

>>95910217
You had plastic bikes in 40k for 20 years and Night Lords upgrades for almost as long

>>95909674
>Can any Mechanicum kings in the thread explain to me how the army actually functions?
Robot Tyranids. Big monsters supported by hordes of chaff units.

Are 40K primarchs too big for 30k

>>95910349
They are too gay for 30k

>>95909976
>play necromunda.
We got Ld, Int, Will and Cool. I thought we were

>>95910393
Well, they are primarchs.

>>95910318
Yes.

more night lords

>>95910320
I like the Heresy Bike design more.

Bike Khan when

JUST GIVE US AN ARTICLE ON LEGION TRAITS ALREADY I NEED TO KNOW HOW BAD THE DAMAGE IS AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

>>95910523
my nigger, they are going to drag this out day by day until mid July or early August.

>>95910522
>wanting something nice or cool to happen

It should be noted that with 2 nipple guns, the shoulder launcher, and 2 arms where even the claw/drill has a meltagun, the Leviathan still has more dakka than the Saturnine.

People are talking about plasma but I just wanna know if Volkite Calivers aren't shitty

>>95910707
They'll be the same, probably. Maybe a shot or two less

Really wish they swapped the turret with...anything else....

>>95910709
I'd imagine they won't be burdened by Heavy this time around, but Culverins are probably still doing the job better if that rule isn't present.

>>95910728
Would the turret be useful for any vehicle conversions?

>>95910748
Super sicaran

>>95910602
Making me wonder if I should bother with the box. I want the mk2's mostly. I don't know if I'll have room for the termies in a list especially if they're in some heavy slot. The dread is cool, and while the leviathan might end up outshooting it, it does have more durability. The gun emplacement I'll probably just use for knight conversions or something someday. Characters look cool but aren't necessary.

>>95908930
I hope so.
I like my venator, even if it's never successfully landed a wound on anything.

>>95910836
Venator is kinda terrible for it's cost in 2.0 (honestly, sicarans in general), so it'd be nice if they were actually good again.

Do IW paint their armor silver or is it unpainted ceramite like the GK?

>>95911020
Yes.

>>95911020
AFAIK the GK, IW AND DG have bare ceramite armors. The differences in color could be explained by maintenance and exposure to the elements and other alterating factors.
The GK probably take great care of their PA, so they have their serfs keep it very clean and polished.
The IW also take care of their gear, but probably don't go to the same lengths as the GK to keep them squeaky clean, so grime gunks up in the recesses.
The DG are likely similar to the IW, but they also use gross chemical and radiological weapons, which play a part in changing their PA's color.


IRL this phenomenon happens to most metals. The color and texture is very different between metals that have been freshly smelted or polished or had months/ years of exposure to the elements.

>>95911111
forgot pic like a tard

>>95910421
Less night lords

Centurion finished

>>95911153
And Apothecaries

>>95911153
>>95911157
Lovely stuff. Source on the head?
Also how bad were the print-lines to deal with on the Apothecaries?

>>95911164
0 on the Apothecaries. Local lad printed them, they're almost in some kind of PVC type material rather than hard resin.

Head is from a Praevian. The Centurion is kitbashed from a bunch of different Consuls, & Fafnir Rann's axe.

>>95911111
Isn't bare ceramite grey, not silver?

>>95911020
Bare ceramite from what I understand is meant to be grey, as a nod to unpainted plastic.

>>95911198
>>95911213
Polished ceramite is shiny though.

>Inversion beamers do more damage the closer you are
Isn't that Melta's gimmick?

RETVRN

>>95911298
Yes, but also Eradication Rays. It literally is an Eradication Ray with another name.

>>95911020
As I recall this thread compiling in the years past: Bare Ceramite is grey, polishes to silver, and oxidizes to off-white.

>>95911307
The one thing NuArt has going for them is that marines are no longer doing an A-pose with their legs all splayed out

>>95909834
It's the normal GW process. Release new outrageous fluff. Look at how people react badly to it. Release BL novels and fluff snippets to downplay it to acceptable levels. They do it constantly.

>Kaldor Draigo is the best of the best and single handedly defeated Mortarion and carved his name on his heart to humiliate him
>Actually it was every single GK grandmaster fighting at the same time, possessing his true name and using it to incapacitate him temporarily, and Draigo was just the one that completed the ritual of which the name carving was a crucial part to manage to banish Mortarion

>>95911321
Bro thanks oof

>>95910523
>Be me
>Paint /Mydudes/
>For the last 15 years I could just choose the least shitty chapters to play in every single edition

Stay mad lorefags

>>95911318
Admech can't have nice things, it is known

>>95911345
If /your dudes/ are green, they cannot be Iron Warriors, we've already been over this. Your only options for Alternative Legion colors are:
1. Pre-Primarch
2. Black / Dark gray
3. Red
4. Blackshield pirates (cannot use main legion LA trait)

>>95911326
>Kaldorlet
>Being able to do anything himself

Imagine.

>>95911357
Adding to you, your legions also cannot be any of the Forgeworld models because they are our of scale retcons and retconned armor MK Designs.

Forgeworld old MKII or MKIII design literraly never existed in any way shape or form in the 30K universe.

Only the latest plastic minis are playable.

>>95911307
All the new redesigns are so much worse than the originals. Don't even want to say new = bad, but it really is in this case.

>>95910530
Then GW are retards who don't like money, as I buy and paint after the new legion rules are known. It could be now. Maybe I lose interest until then.

>>95911357
>If /your dudes/ are green, they cannot be Iron Warriors
Camo

*De-spoils your fun*

>>95911307
Jesus it's as if the soul has been sucked out

>>95911357
Oh missed #5. Be Alpha Legion

>>95911417
Cool alternative color Blood Angels

>>95911409
He has not played a single game or painted a single miniature.

The fact he cannot imagine anything else other than solid colors schemes is also telling on his IQ.

>>95911307
Damn, this really highlight how previous guys were just malnourished malformed abhumans.

>>95911380
if people were honest they'd admit that mark II and III never looked good and you won't convince me otherwise.

>>95904340
Shit is still down. I'm kinda worried.

>>95911519
GW's been on the warpath against recasters and stl sellers recently.

>>95911345
The reason standard colour schemes are cool is because they're recognisable. You take to the field and see that you're facing an army of (whichever legion) and your brain can instantly flesh them out with details that aid your imagination and immersion. It works even if the army composition isn't typical of said legion; the exception proves the rule, etc. It's detrimental to immersion if someone tells you that their bright green army is actually iron warriors or blood angels. 30k is essentially a historical game. I like the analogy that 30k is a car show, not a race. The aesthetic IS the game.

Unrelated but I'm sperging out slightly because I don't know all the info from the new libers and it means I can't properly build a force yet. Once they're out I'll be back to building (and endlessly refining). At the moment I'm slightly hyped but mostly uncomfortable

>>95911530
>tfw Death Guard guy still hasn't set up shop again

thinking of picking up Haar to kitbash Kharn with

>>95911543
They probably had him boiled to death.

>>95911153
>>95911157
Nice, I really like the centurion.

>>95911500
While I was not fan of MK II, at least FW one, MK III was kino.
Nu MK II and MK III are straight downgrade.

>>95911318
At least original Eradication ray exchanged power for blast.
Mech units got hit hard when it ceased to be new hot thing.

>>95911614
it looks like goofy 50s martian movie shit anon, ugly childish designs like that are unironically why 40k has a fraction of the cultural significance of other IPs.

Am I missing something or could you take Draykavac and an Archmagos in the same detachment? Feudal hierarchies just says you can't have an archmagos on foot and on abeyant in the same detachment, Draykavac counts as an archmagos for the purpose, and both are 0-1. So you could have both on foot or both on abeyant as I'm reading it.

>>95909277
The horus heresy has existed since RT1.0? Its always been a thing.

It wasnt what it is now, Horus wasnt a primarch but just some military commander, but its foundational lore.

>>95911660
MK III looks like knight's plate armour...

>>95911684
by all means show me a knight that looks remotely like mark III anon

>>95911669
>Am I missing something
Yes, Liber Mechanicum Errata.

>>95911696
I already noted that. Feudal hierarchy doesn't say you can't have multiple archmagos, just that you can't have one on foot and on abeyant.

>>95911488
If the colors were swapped people wouldn't be so kind to the FW design

>>95911377
are you retarded?

>>95911746
I think anon was just taking the piss, so you might be the retarded one for it to fly over your head, I'm sorry :(

>>95911674
It was a thing like the clone wars was a thing in 1977. A single line for the lolz in a script

I'm ready to take Era of Ruin off your hands now, thank you.

>>95911765
I mean, it was the foundational "mythos" of the setting, a devastating conflict which shaped the imperium and how it ended up. Its where the emperor died and shit.
But yes, most of the details were added much later. There was always "a horus heresy", but it wasnt the horus heresy we know now.

>>95911695
It is plate armour, with modified hreat helmet just made powered and for guy who is on diet of steroids instead of malnourishment.

>>95911784
>hreat

>>95911784
Behold, a knight!

>>95911669
It could be argued that named ones counting as arcgmagos mean it take 0-1 slot.
It would require extreme rule lawyering and gaslighting to convince someone that you are allowed to take named and your own archmagos in same detatchment.
While it can be argued to followe the letter of rules it goes against intent of said rules and also make you a faggot in eyes of person who wanted to play with you.

>>95911796
Yes? Anon a knight is a noble who can afford to wear extremely expensive armor

>>95911839
Not exactly. The immortals werent knights were they? "A knight" refers to a more specific sort of middle ages feudal warrior caste.

Weighing in more on the conversation: Space marines are "space knights" in the sense that theyre a vaguely monastic feudal warrior caste that borrows heavily from knights in terms of aesthetics (particularly chapters like the black templars - which are crusaders - and in HH dark angels), not just because they have expensive armor

>>95909146
Who's trolling, newfag? Index Astartes and Visions created fan interest in Heresy, fan interest led to modelling projects and gaming, that engagement is what persuaded GW there was a market for Heresy content at all and they greenlit the original planned roughly dozen Heresy novel series, which then blew up and GW ruined it by dragging it out for twenty years as a shitty soap opera, permitting FW to meet the demand for 30k-specific rules that the OGs playing with just 40K army lists & counts-as based on IA & Visions and then groups like Tempus Fugitives producing 30K rules before the BL sloppa novels were even on sale. That's the real, objective, factual, correct history of the Heresy IRL - you can piss, and shit, and whinge, and moan, and bleat, and cry until you're blue in the face, your faggy novels aren't why we have Heresy, Heresy is why you have your faggy novels. Unfortunately.

>>95911796
>>95911695
nta but marine armor by itself was inspired by knight suits, that's by design; you don't even have to look at specific marks, all marines armor is knight inspired.

BUT mk3 armor is even more knightly, by its shapes and rivets for instance

>>95911946
NTA but the specific chronology doesent necessarily change the fact that most people playing HH got into it after the series "took off" so to speak. The portion of oldheads who were there since visions vs the portion of people who got into it from 40k through exposure/BL is probably skewed in favor of the latter.

>>95911969
Thats because marines are just chaos warriors in space. And chaos warriors are evil spiky knights.

>>95911929
marines are roman legionaries, not knights. In a way the most disappoint legion designs in 30k (Space Wolves, DA) are those that didn't diverge more from their 40k medieval-based counterparts to reflect antiquity.

>>95911715
I have zero nostalgia about anything FW and the FW design is still simply superior. The legs on the left look like marshmellow pillows with ikea dresser drawers you can pull out of them to get your diary.

The ones on the right look like crude world war I overlapping plate armor which had to be stacked because it was easier to mass produce 10" sections of armor and stack them than to make one enormous leg piece (and so after one of the layers gets shredded you can break the rivets, unstack them, and only replace one of the 3 layers then rivet it back)

>>95911982
Chaos wasn't in the setting back then
Marines are space marines, with a tinge of terror troops

>>95911557
doesn't read as Kharn. Kharn and Angron are tiny angry badgers like comic Wolverine.
They were never the huge bulkmonsters like Ferrus Mannus or Vulkan.

>>95911992
That's your opinion and that's okay. I don't dislike FW mk2, I don't believe the chicken legs are anything but a FW quirk and they are not an integral part of the design.

I like both, but the new colors on the new renders aren't doing numk2 any favor.

My favorite is numk2 because I like thicker plates and I think it looks more like a brutal space-medieval techno-armor than FW mk2, but again I like FW mk2, it's just not my favorite.

>>95911771
the strangest part is the original heresy was entirely retconned away.

Istvaan 5 had zero Word Bearers, Iron Warriors, Alpha Legion or Night Lords.

It was World Eaters, Death Guard and Emperor's Children (the three chaos factions) suddenly backstabbing the three loyalist legions who were attacking the Sons of Horus.

The Iron Warriors, Alphas, Night Lords and Word Bearers were much less significant in the original.

>>95911993
>Chaos wasn't in the setting back then
Chaos has been a thing since WFB 1e anon. It predates 40k.

>>95912025
I still prefer horus being E's buddy and being a power hungry retard thinking he can bend chaos over, rather than the daddy issue heresy(?) that we got

>>95912025
oh, and it makes the Iron Hands, Raven Guard and Salamanders look like pussies. Getting absolutely buttfucked 4v3? Embarrassing. So they retconned it to be a 7v3, but now it makes exactly zero sense that even one single space marine escaped istvaan alive.

>>95912035
>the setting
>you mean the other setting?
You're either trolling / retarded / a huge faggot and so I will not reply anymore

>>95912040
* oh, 8v3 actually. And with Ferrus dead in 10 seconds, yet they pretend the 3 legions aren't entirely wiped out surrounded on every side, the planet entirely wrapped in the enemy fleets and covering every possible way to escape.

>>95912044
Anon, I hate to tell you this, but the development of the two warhammer settings did not happen in isolation. This is why both are called "warhammer".
40k started as essentially fantasy in space, and developed into its own setting from that. Space marines took the design language of chaos warriors from fantasy, which is why they look how they do.

>The styling of the original Chaos Warriors went on to inspire the heavy armour that would become the hallmark of Warhammer games in the future, including Warhammer 40,000’s Space Marines and Age of Sigmar’s Stormcast Eternals.
From GWs own mouth.

Or did you think this conversation was about in universe setting mechanics?

>>95909674
What helped me figure them out is someone describing them as a Vampire army. You've got vampires (tech-priests), zombies (thralls), blood knights, monstrous constructs, etc. Your vampires buff, control, raise, spellcast, and drain. Your other units orbit them.

>>95912040
>>95912053
>Horus, I, Fulgrim, have come to put an end to your folly
>Sure sure, let's talk, have some shisha and exotic xenoladies
>Wtf love chaos now, the emperor's a nerd
Incredible

>>95912086
GW robots really always have to be the undead.
>Hey James I got this idea for an army. They're robots, but they're chaos robots.
>That's fine but I just watched Terminator and it was awesome, just make Terminators and their rule will be "We'll Be Baaack" see, that's the catchphrase, so the robots have to come back from the dead, that's their gimmick, nothing else comes back from the dead
>next edition: Shit, they keep making Terminator movies and they're even More Popular? We don't wanna get sued, uhh... robots that come back from the dead... that means they're UNdead. Make them all pharaoh mummy robots commanding and skeleton zombie robots!
>Who's your favorite mummy? Mumm'rah from Thundercats obviously! Make the soul-less robots talk like 80s cartoon villains!

>>95911519
Recasters are so 2008 bro, you can have Europe or US based 3D printer for even cheaper and the quality is beyond the recasts.

They can and will also fix any problem with the original print, and you have literal 3D scans.

Honestly, in a matter of months, all recasters will probably switch to 3D print anyway.

>>95912090
>Fulgrim and his highest ranking officers were corrupted by the decadent pastimes that Horus and his Chaos worshippers offered. Drugged, pleasured beyond endurance and finally broken, they agreed to aid Horus.
tag: mind break, moral degradation

Speaking of the early history of the game, would anyone be able to help me find a specific White Dwarf article about it? I have a distinct memory of a whole spread showing marines painted as each legion, but they were just the regular MkVIIs (?) painted in bright colours of the time; I particularly remember the Death Guard in stark white with green trim since that's what I went with on my first marines. I don't remember the specific article they were in, but I think it was presented similarly to that old custodes army. I've had a look through a bunch of old WD issues online but never found it, so I assume it must be a region-specific one. Might any of you Anons know the article I'm thinking of?

Pic unrelated.

>>95912192
Every single 3rd party printer service is massively overpriced.
They try to charge $1 per sword in the US despite it costing them 5 pennies of resin.
And you order 3d prints from one of the half-affordable "US printers" and he just sends your files to china and it takes 6-8 weeks to get your 3d prints anyway because etsy is entirely full of nothing but dropshippers. Kinda obvious when each popular US printer lists that they did like 5000+ orders in a year, that's 14 orders each day and they aren't working on any of them.

Then when your order arrives from china just as slow as a recaster, it doesn't resemble GW product and can't be fielded at GW stores (and basically all non-GW stores in my state stopped doing warhammer so you can't play anywhere else)

I've bought 3d printed primarchs that don't look like GW for $30 each, then I looked at the recasted ones like $40 and I would've been better off just going with the recasts, the 10 bucks is insignificant.

>>95912192
Imagine not having a good recaster lmao

>>95911977
That's not the argument. Keep up. The argument was whether or not 30K exists as a game *because* of the 30K novels, and that's provably untrue.

>>95912386
Oh sure, you can find "heresy" conversions from like 2004

>>95912040
Most of the survivors from Isstvan V weren't actually on the planet surface. They were sitting in their spaceships when the trap was sprung. Out of the legionaries who were on the ground and fighting, those who survived either did so because they were instead taken prisoner or, like Corax, spent months playing hide-and-seek until they could find a window to extricate themselves from the situation.

Where is todays anouncement, james

>>95912405
at 2pm bong time

>>95912386
the first actual heresy box sets are 2012 and later, so it's provably true that he's right and you're wrong. The heresy game was invented purely because of the success of the book series.

Before the book series, heresy was entirely "hey I did this homebrew conversion for funsies, it doesn't have official support" which is fine and all but the official game didn't come until half a decade after the books became popular.

>>95911380
You're joking, right? They look so much better! They improved the proportions of the limbs so much by thickening their thighs.

>>95912529
>more listbuilding next week
I wanna see rites of war and decurions james

>>95912404
The stories of the surviving raven guard and alpha legion are all about the harrowing journey to escape.

My favorite line "I said there was no food, not that there wasn't anything to eat."

>>95912548
Can't Marines survive for like years without eating based off their armor recycling

>>95912529
Show the fucking gun james, I dont care about the sprue! What do autocannons do now!

>>95912544
Gib atomantic pavise for Deredeos, you FUCKS.

>>95912529
Theres probably a rather cool conversion waiting out there, where someone sticks one of those guns on a tank chassis.

>>95912529
Wonder if there's plastic flyers in the pipeline with how much more attention flyers seem to be getting for the new edition.

>Automated
>Clearly has a viewing port and entrance hatch
JAMES!!!!!!

>>95912581
The union requires someone in the cockpit to hit the big red button if it malfunctions

>>95912529
... Do you reckon you could stick the central pod on some dread legs to recreate the old, Old dread kit? Not the Space Crusade one, the bendy bus one?

>>95912544
>>95912559
Lol, lmao even.

>>95912568
>inb4 the turret fits on a sicaran and a Sicaran Bulwark is a Journal model in the second supplement.

>>95912597
>bendy bus
Why the fuck do I trust my phone to actually Keep the autocorrect turned off.

>>95912602
>>inb4 the turret fits on a sicaran and a Sicaran Bulwark is a Journal model in the second supplement.
>space marine hydra

>>95912607
that gun would be 10x cooler on the back of a half-track

>>95912558
Psst. Hey, kid! Here you go. Don't tell anyone where you got this from.
Autocannon
>R48 FP2 RS7 AP4 D2 Special Rules: Heavy(FP), Breaching(6+) Traits: Auto

>>95912581
To be fair, it would totally be in character for IW to wire in some poor sod, staple the lid shut and call the thing automated.

>>95912581
>""Automated""

>>95912623
Cool if true.

>>95912623
>FP2(effectively 3) with 4 barrels
A bit silly

>>95912637
Anon I think thats for a normal autocannon.

>>95912646
In the reply thread about the quad gun? A bit uh silly, no?

>>95912654
The anon asked about autocannons in general

>>95912544
>5+ invulnerable for models within 3"
Neat, it's basically a piece of terrain you get to deploy yourself and it also shoots

>>95912637
Just the normal autocannon. No clue what the big thing does.

>>95912544
>Explosion is S10 AP2
>Wipes HSS camping it for the 5++

>>95912529
Why is this more playable than the termies and dreads?

>>95912665
>>Explosion is S10 AP2

>>95912545
Literally all I care about is the weapon options on praetorian command squads and veteran assault squads and tactical squads, and whether decurions/master of arms survive as command options in vehicles.

>>95912632
How does he scratch his nose?

>>95912568
I kind of want to create a Solar Auxilia Hydra, or maybe some Ordo Reductor abomination by mounting the turret on Dunecrawler legs.

>>95912676
Leans forwards, rubs his face on the rim of the shield.

>>95912685
A walker with two of these for arms. Or maybe one of these for a head like on an ATAT

>>95912578
Flyer rules are still completely stupid and there's no point to the flyer models, might as well use a cardboard token because they don't interact with anything and leave every turn.

Now I kinda want to build an army of nothing but Tarantulas, Araknae, Rapiers and shit, all led by a single long-suffering forge-lord that has to maintain all this crap.

>>95912578
A plastic storm eagle kit won't fix 3.0, but It'd soften the blow.

>>95912714
NTA, what do you mean? Is it a mini game now?

>>95912529
it’s a great model, might buy another. GW finally came up with a kit that pulls double duty as a nice terrain piece and something super easy to make legion agnostic if you have multiple armies.

>>95912735
@GW send the Pinkertons NOW

>>95912735
Leaker anon, you're back. Do the guns rotate like the sicaran?

>>95912744
yeah you have a full 360 spin, and then about 30 degrees of tilt. unfortunately doesn’t fit on the sicaran turret hole though :(

>>95912735
Hey, do you have the walker rules please?

>>95912735
>legion agnostic
My exact plan, nice. Does it even have quick start stats?

>>95912735
That looks good

>>95911345
>chapters
Buddy, this is Horus Heresy, we don't do 'chapters' here.

>>95912756
nope, neither does the big dread… >>95912755
book is on loan to a friend

>>95912769
Even without the book, did you at least get to see in Unit Types are a thing that does something?
Lots of peolle speculating that tanks don't ignore Heavy and the like

>>95912665
>Explosion
>Str 10 AP 2

>>95912765
>Buddy, this is Horus Heresy, we don't do 'chapters' here.
>Legions are made of chapters
>Several famous ones make appearances in rule books, some even survive to 40k
>But hey we don't do chapter here
What did Anon mean by this?

>>95912769
>book is on loan to a friend
Ah no problems

>>95912727
flyers are just off the board, then you call a mission stratagem, place it on your board edge, it goes straight forward without turning for 100% speed (strike) or 50% speed (strafing run), you get to shoot at something in front of it, then it leaves the board.
You really would lose nothing at all by just having a circle that says "airplane" that you place, measure the 24" or whatever forward, roll attacks then lift the token off the board.
It's not remaining on the board during the enemy turn so they don't need to know if they can see its wings or anything.

>>95912714
Ah yes, because space capable interceptors flying at super-sonic speeds doing donuts over a tiny area of the battlefield was sooo much more realistic.
>Who am I kidding, in 2.0 all flyers did was touch the board then get shot into smithereens with Intercept spam.

>>95912719
>Army is a single schizophrenic Iron Hand forge father that has survived long enough and salvaged enough shit that he has his own automated defense network
>"Come take me alive I dare you, you bastards"

>>95912799
>Shield Generator Meltdown: If this model explodes, the hits are resolved at Strength 10 with an AP of 2.

>>95912819
It's their fault for flying at heights where bolt pistol can hit them.

>>95912809
Wow. Surely transports and ones that hover just becomes skimmers though, no? Or do they get "dropped off" along a line?

>>95912807
Chapters are parts of legions and outside of maybe some special iconography they aren't running around looking drastically different than the rest of the Legion.

In fact, outside of the Templar Brethren in the Imperial Fists most legions are pretty happy to stick with one scheme from the looks of things.

>>95912848
Could be you get an extra deep strike from them since you just get the one now

>>95912819
Main problem was interceptor everywhere, suddenly all boltgun tactical marines can shoot with perfect accuracy with their rifles at supersonic jet in the skies.

>>95912799
Man those techmarines are toast

>>95912858
>Pale Nomads, Ashen Claws, The Revenants, The Unspeaking, The Black Comet, etc
There's plenty of examples of chapters that have everything from different schemes to icons. >>95911345 is totally fine in having an obscure double digit chapter in any legion. Just because most chapters confirmed that doesn't mean all did.

Also stop moving the goal post. I'll humor (you) just this time.

>>95912529
so deploy this with a tarantula in between each leg pair to share the invulnerable save

>>95911571
At least I got his not-Imperial mark marines one anon shared a while back.

>>95912735
Do the legs move or are they glued in place?

>>95912735
Could you draw out how big the 3 inch bubble is, those legs look massive

>>95912907
they’re actually movable, which will be dope for uneven terrain or hills
>>95912908
they are, I’ll get a measure out when I get home tonight

>>95912544
>doesn't say friendly
Don't mind me. Just going to hang around your turret. Thanks.

>>95912977
What if the turrets are actually 3d, interactive objective markers so that we no longer have to deal with the terror of ugly-ass pie plates?

>>95912977
It's is just a dome after all. The Void shield generator had the same thing.

>>95912858
Blood Angels chapters(called companies because everyone loves original names that don't create confusion) had diferences in colour scheme, all were red but had diferent trims etc.
Early Heresy WB also had diferent schemes for Chapters.
Also there were quite big diferences in some Legions like Ultramarines dropping all of it's destroyers into Nemesis Chapter, while Space Wolves had veteran units including Varagyr dumped into first great company(funny name for chapter) while destroyers alongs artillery were dumped into 7th great company.

>>95911125
I flay U bro
>>95911145
yes..!

BS4s you to death

>>95912956
>they’re actually movable, which will be dope for uneven terrain or hills

That's good, it would be silly if they weren't. Does the turret swivel as well or do you need magnets for that?

>>95912819
at supersonic speeds, it would be going a kilometer every 3 seconds, and shooting from off the edge of the board. Which emphasizes why it's entirely nonsense to make physical airplane models at all unless they're doing a VTOL hover-mode thing like a landing craft.

Welp, at WS 4 dreads will go right back to worthless in melee.
>not enough attacks to engage chaff
>not enough WS to engage elite units
>can't issue challenges to splat heroes
>too slow to catch vehicles in melee

>>95913102

We haven't seen fist profiles yet, thry will likely come with buffs

They posted a short on YT thats a duel between loken and abbadon. Abbadon now has eternal warrior, loken can still resist death once per game, and the cthonian power claw is like damage 3 or 4 now.

>>95913094
to be fair aircraft providing CAS wouldn't go at supersonic speed.

>>95912992
they're too big and non-circular with the 4 stupid extended legs and the huge guns in the front.

>>95913113
>damage 4 melee weapons
Every 40k player predicted this bullshit the second "damage" was announced for the game. It's guaranteed power-creep every new release. These new bolters are now D2, these new missiles are D3, this new fist is D4. Wow wow wow wow wow.

>>95912799
better than 1/2 to kill MEQ

Did leakanon post the rules for FNP?

>>95913109
Even if it's +10i 100S AP0 and damage 9000 it would still not matter because it still would deal all it's 4 attcks at WS4 meaning it maybe hit 2/20 chaff legionares, or if you are lucky 1/10 elites, meaning you just wasted like 200 points to kill 2 tactical legionares per turn in melee.

>>95913123
>>damage 4 melee weapons
To be fair it crit (or was it shred). But thats no different to the old instant death rule either. Some weapons still do enough damage to one-shot (some) characters, seems fine to me. The alternative is everything and their mother being D1 or 2, which is both boring and would make combat a slog.

>>95913102
When you hit, at best, on a 4+ none of it will be relevant unless it's, like, +3 attacks per fist.

>>95913143
It COULD give + attacks. Maybe +1 per fist? But I dont think thats super likely.

>>95913143
>4 attcks
Weapons give bonus attacks now

>>95913113
>>95913123
It's not damage 4 you retards, its a power fist with shred.

>>95913120
Incorrect. Jets already do CAS from slightly below mach1 since like 1960-1970 and that's without science fiction magical targeting technologies and facing enemy cannons that don't shoot laser beams at the speed of light.

A warhammer jet fighter is too fragile to survive being hit and the only way it's not going to get hit 2 seconds after coming near the battlefield is if it zooms in at like mach 3, drops smart missiles or squeezes off its entire autocannon ammo without aiming then vanishes.

They're also described as being fragile enough to be threatened by even sustained hits from cultist lasguns on the ground, which would be incredibly easy to aim compared to a bullet rifle, so traveling subsonic would be an instant death sentencee.

>>95913161
A damage 3 power fist with shred, it landed one hit in round 1 that would have killed loken. So it does 3+ damage base.

>>95913158
Its probably one of the most likely things they will give

>>95905601
>>95905531
I forgot, but then I rembered. Radar unit may need slightly resized, the one I printed for my fellblade recently was slightly to big since this is based on the helios

GO
/d/x9tE4h

>>95913123
>It's guaranteed power-creep every new release.
Yea, just look at how good saturnines are!

>>95913186
>3D fists

>>95913123
>power-creep
>when everything has been nerfed

>https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/sp53m4ex/disintegrators-weapons-of-a-dark-age/
Guns that were previously only in hand's of emperor's custodes and possession of them was forbidden and punished with summary execution.
Then it was given but in stronger form to marine destroyers, they are legion's warcrime division after all.
Now it's 43 such weapons in starter set so you could equip all your veteran units with weapon that Emperor banned for all outsiode his personal bodyguards.

>>95911380
>>95911307
The "redesigns" are a return to the original. The FW ones are changes.

>>95913191
So instant death in function

>>95913150
>big numbers mean fast combat and exciting
This is what the brain of an 8 year old with 50 IQ looks like.
The game was actually at its very fastest around 3rd edition 40k, despite every weapon in the entire game being damage 1. It was not "a slog"
Meanwhile in 9th and 10th a tank must have 16 wounds and face hit, hit modifiers, stratagems, hit rerolls, wounds, wound rerolls, armor saves or invuln saves and rerolls and stratagems and feelnopains and more stratagems and then multiply each hit by damages, yadda yadda.

The game has literally never been a slower, more boring slog than when it has progressed to children mechanics where 20 layers are added to fake complexity.

>>95913191
>+2S
>ws4
>60ppm
>2A

2A is enough to kill any normal (non saturnine) troops (terminators are still 2W, as are veterans). The only time you need more than that is D3 for saturnines (or deathshroud I guess), or D4+ to onetap praetors (or put chunks in dreads and vehicles). D2 is the most you need 99% of the time, with the other times being "character duels".

>>95913200
I mean half the legion turned traitor, why would they follow the space geneva convention? Frankly its surprising the traitors didnt bust their forbidden warcrime guns out in larger numbers.

>>95913209
3rd edition had instant death and vehicles could be oneshotted.

>>95913197
I see this is your first game you've ever played. GW starts on the first edition of a damage system by putting a lot of S4 AP0 dmg1 stuff into the game, then they announce new units and codices with S4 AP1 and S4 AP1 Dmg2 and S5 AP1 Dmg2, and then oooh look at this S7 AP3 Dmg4. The very first trooper of the edition isn't given a big number, you have to buy them in the starter anyway - it's the new box they release after you've wasted $300 on the starter that will powercreep the starter box units. I wouldn't have to explain this if you had ever played a games workshop product before in your life.

>>95913203
>MK II still can move it's head instead of having fixed helmet like on OG pic
>some flexing rubber on legs like on FW design instead of OG power cables going outside
>smaller backpack instead of bulky one
Come one, nu MK II is "we have forge world designs at home" just like with MK VI and MK III, it's not return to original, just some GW designer thinking he can do better(he can't).

>>95913228
Vehicles can still be one-shotted. Getting one-shotted was unlikely before butt possible, getting one-shotted is unlikely now but possible, literally no difference. And removing instant death was simply a mistake.

>>95913227
>Frankly its surprising the traitors didnt bust their forbidden warcrime guns out in larger numbers.
Well if Emperor made it forbidden to possess such weapons, then legions no matter their allegiance simply wouldn't have it in their stock in first place, so they couldn't just issue them.
Besides poster boys for disintegrators are Salamanders, legion known for flamers and hatered of war crime weapons and destroyers in general.

>>95913209
Anon, you understand that they got rid of instant death, a rule that existed back in the day that meant weapons could do more than "1 damage" right? A powerfist would onetap you back in the day.
If you remove the ability of weapons to instant kill by doubling out, you need to compensate for it or fights become far too non-lethal (or purely about weight of attacks, and rolling buckets of dice for everything is also boring).

>>95913241
I agree*

I think the added granularity is a net good, it opens you up for weapons with interesting profiles like S3 Ap2 D3 or whatever, which could simply not exist before. But I do like the fact that there was an "equalizer" function, no matter how strong or 'ard you were, a lascannon was a lascannon, instant death made a marine and praetor equal in the face of sufficient firepower, whereas now you can have characters pull that shit primarchs did.

>>95913232
I started playing when I was a kid with the dition that had a red cover and the hammer had like a shield on it and stopped playing at the end of 8th, mt assumtive

>>95913232
Because blackshields were famously very powerful last edition. While the launch units (like the Contemptor) were very weak.

>>95913241
>Getting one-shotted was unlikely before
Pen with lascannon would explode on 6 and with melta on 5. In 3rd ed vehicle would be oneshooted with 6 on glancing hit or 4 on pen/hit with ordnance.

I'm going to miss the beta garmon suppliment

>>95913272
And let's not forget those Uber powerful mechanicum and solar auxilia units!

>>95913143
>still would deal all it's 4 attcks at WS4 meaning it maybe hit 2/20 chaff legionares, or if you are lucky 1/10 elites

1/2 or 1/3; 2/20 and 1/10 are identical probabilities

it's 2/5 to kill MEQ (assuming AP3 or better and S6+) and 1/10 for 4++ at WS4 (actually slightly better than 1/10 to 3sf, so over time you will see "unpredictable" effects where it's better than you imagine it to be)

with some kind of buff to melee - remember that these fists already had the equivalent to the new D2+ standard - it's likely to do much more damage than 4A would seem to provide, but there's no point getting assblasted by rules you haven't even seen

>>95913306
There is no benefit of more than D2 vs anything other than saturnines, dreads, vehjicles and characters. 90% of things are W2 at most.

>>95913235
It's entirely fine and cleaves much closer to the original. FW's most distinctive elements are gone.

>>95913132
Yes

>>95913200
>Cuckstodesfag upset he isn't the Emperor's specialest boy anymore
Go change your tampon, you're clearly on your period you femstode

>>95913313
Mechanicum and custodes exist

>>95913336
Go charge custodes with your Ws4 dreadnought. Fucking dare you.

>>95913336
Not in a real playgroup they don't.

>>95913306
2/20 and 1/10 was reffering to 2 marines in 20 marine blob or 1 vet/terminator in 10 man elite unit.

>>95913336
The overwhelming majority of players are marine players, and the overwhelming majority of games are marines vs marines. Sure, to some extent performance vs other armies matters, but in reality its an incredibly niche thing which doesent really factor in. No one evaluated guns based on how well they could kill militia in 2.0.

>>95913302
you're making the unstandable mistake of misunderstanding the difference between a 3 year GW plastic kit maingame with some 10 year resin side project they don't care about.
GW is now the one handling horus heresy. It used to be forgeworld who made most of their money off shit like primarchs and overpriced space marine trooper squads. Blackshirt faggots don't have a forgeworld squad to buy and nobody cares about mechanicus, forgeworld wasn't going to alienate their space marine paypigs who pay $150 for a primarch and $280 for a 10man squad of space marine resinsloppers.

Now GW is doing plastic kits where they must justify some 50,000 dollar mold so they must power creep things to ensure every new mold sells a lot.

>>95913363
GW handled the previous edition of horus heresy (2.0) anon. All the new relaunched marine, admech and SA stuff was plastic. The only resin stuff were the characters.

>>95913314
>FW distinctive elements are gone
>still have FW "flexible joints" on legs and torso instead of exposed power cables
>helmet is even less like original than FW one
Anon it have nothing to do with original MK II design, it's just FW MK II design but done badly by new sculptor.

>>95913363
Yea, lets look at the new plastic from last edition they tried to sell. Everyone remembers how good the kratos was right? And the jetbikes!

>>95913363
>doesn't know the last releases last edition were plastic solar aux and plastic mechanicum
Okay cool shit stirring 40k tard, got it, Opinion ignored.

>>95913363
That's retarded and completely ignorant of GW release history. Editions usually have powercreep yes, but that's absolutely unconnected to how new is the kit. For every example of Votann we have an example of Dark Eldar.

>>95913160
Ones that aren't default will, otherwise they would be baked into the profile. Dual DCCWs will definitely provide a bonus though.

>>95913358
In my local area only 3 of 9 players play a marine army and of the people currently building 30k armies 2 are building mechanicum. 1 is building knihhts and 1 is building a legion so it would not make sense for anyone around here to actually plan to face marines.

>>95913165
>CAS isn't super sonic
>Wrong, CAS is slightly less than super sonic
What did Anon mean by this?

>>95913358
I'm going to incorporate Thallax and Castellax into my marines myself and use my Crons as as full Mech army.

>>95913203
Sure, Nu Mk-II went back to the original designs by:
- Having a very different backpack to the original
- Having very different arms to the original
- Having elbows at all
- Having a very different bolter to the original
- Having no groin flap
- Having totally different knees to the original
- Having different feet to the original
- Having different bracers/gauntlets to the original
- Having a different head to the original (The spike is a return, granted, but the rest isn't)
- Having the external piping
- Having the ankle bumps
- Having the knee discs
- Having a different torso to the original.

Truly, a return to form.
Don't get me wrong, the FW redesign changed a lot of these (fewer, but a lot), but you said they're a return, and they're really, really not.

>>95913358
This is less true than it used to be and is going to become even less true over time as the scope of 30k expands.

>>95913382
Don't forget the standard sicaran! Man that thing was sooooo overpowered :^)

>>95908287
>vehicles in the dumpster
I’ll bet you anything that light vehicles like rhinos and preds are good, just because they can roam around spreading tactical statuses. Probably Sicarans too. Anything cheap that can spread pinning, suppressed, and panic onto multiple units by splitting fire with sponsons or pintle weapons will be useful if they don’t cost an arm and a leg.

>>95913203
>that old mkiv
I neeeeed it, James. Sell me some fucking plastic.

>>95909465
I've been doing that for decades. I've been running these Perry Twins plastics napoleonics (with ww1 gasmask heads) as Kreigers. I wanted a guard army but didnt think remortaging my house to buy a couple of squads from Forgeworld at the time was a good idea. These cost me about 10p each and I scratchbuilt a load of heavy weapons, artillery, vehicles, etc out of plastic card. I have had no problem playing in local game clubs and friend's homes, though I have steered away from GW shops/showrooms and tournaments - if you play there you are advertising their products for them to potential customers, so they only allow their own (current) products to be used.

>>95913354
2/20 and 1/10 are the same measure

>Anon says Tacticals are okay-ish
>Anon says Despoilers are bad
>Anon says Assault squads are bad
>Anon says Breachers are bad
>Anon says Veteran squads are bad
>Anon says Terminators are bad (both Tartaros and Cataphractii)
>Anon says Saturnines are bad
>Anon says Destroyer squads are bad
>Anon says Contemptors are bad
>Anon says Deredeos are bad
>Anon says Leviathans are bad
>Anon says Saturnine dreads are bad
>Anon says Rapier Batterys are bad
>Anon says Drop pods are bad
>Anon says Rhinos are bad
>Anon says Seekers are bad
>Anon says Outriders are bad
>Anon says Javelins are bad
>Anon says Land Raiders are bad
>Anon says Heavy Supports squads are bad
>Anon says Sicarans are bad
>Anon says Kratos are bad
>Anon says Fellblade are bad
>Anon says Mastodon are bad
>Anon says Imperial Knights are bad
>Anon says Titans are bad because of new focus fire rules.

So..... the editions is perfectly balanced ?

>>95913449
nta but you're such a whiny faggot

>>95913697
Finally an edition of honest tacspam vs tacspam, just as The Emperor, Warmaster, and Old Four intended.

>>95913697
No, it will be tactical blobfest.
Also predators might turn out good.

>>95913203
>>95913736
Why would someone get so upset by someone else's lies getting BTFO? lol

>>95913736
NTA but he is right. Nothing about nu MK II is simlar to original MK II.

>>95913697
Blob vs blob vs blob killers.

>>95913736
thirteen separate points and you couldn't address a single one.

>>95910217
suffer nightfag

Do we have pics of the spruce for the new centurion? I want to see easy it is to replace the combi weapon with a pistol.

>>95914086
This is the sexiest helmet i've ever seen

>>95914086
I wonder if magna and minor combi volkite are a thing. I kinda hope they're all cheaper and one use. I say this a RG player who use combi volkite mor deythan and know that Kiavar Pattern Combi weapons are two use.

>>95914086
The arms are separate, what you can stick in is only limited by the cape (and only if you keep that)

>>95914173
Thanks anon.
Seems like I need to replace the entire arm. Hopefully a generic tactical squad arm doesn't look weird with this model.

>>95914199
Takes like five minutes with a hobby knife to remove the hand and the gun with the inner part of the lower arm (less if you don't want to salvage the gun), saving the vambrace should be easy-peasy if you're even slightly handy, from there you can either do the inside of the arm with greenstuff or use parts of another arm. And then you can just stick a random pistol hand on that.

>>95914086
>>95914173
Nice to see these nipple rings are optional spruce and GW learned their lesson.

>>95914153
My exact thoughts too.
Imagine if they had given us that instead of the new mark 2 helm, it just looks so much better.
I'm sure some Cadchads are already working on printable versions so we can give them to the whole army.

>>95914086
>>95914388
"sprue" = the plastic frame parts are on
"spruce" = a type of tree

>>95914173
>>95914388
He would make a great sige themed praetor

>>95914407
>This nigga doesn't have wood models.

>>95913697
Who said terminators are bad? Theyre looking to be real winners.

Volley fire works well for them, they probably have that rule that gets them VP for driving people off objectives, theyre decently good vs the new units, Ap2 is rarer now, dreads are ws4 now. If they get T5 like some people claimed im calling it, dread edition.

>>95914407
there's also the term "To spruce things up", which can involve adding decorations. Anon is, technically, correct.

>>95913449
Correct.

>>95914388
always were

Time to guess which unit will be good with zero data.

I'm calling ursarax, I will now buy 24 of them.

>>95914407
If we want to get really technical, sprue is the cone sticking out.

>>95914596
>Ursarex might clobber dreadnoughts now
Nice

>>95913697
As a furfags player I guess this our edition to either dominate or be utterly useless

>>95914613
It wouldn't take much to make ursarax decent. Even in 2.0 the only thing holding them back from being good tac clobberers was their insane cost.

>>95914613
You'll need fists and 9 ursarax to survive swinging second to do enough damage to kill the dread but it's doable. It'll come down to cost. Claws are dead because shred is just a bonus damage that fists would have anyway.

>>95914596
Their claws are going to be WS3 S5 AP4 Gets Hot (3)

>>95914758
Claws might end up with breaching or rending, everything is up for grabs

>>95914770
Fists are AP2 naturally and would be S8. Claws won't get both breaching and rending on top of shred.

>>95914758
>shred is just a bonus damage
wait what? What does shred do now?

>>95914794
Claws might not keep shred. We don't know. Everything is up in the air.

>>95914796
On X+ to wound you deal an additional damage with that attack.
Rending is on an X+ to hit your attack automatically wounds (counts as a 6)
Breaching is on an X+ to wound, your attack is Ap2

>>95914804
Wait, isn't this AoS and 10th rules? Criticals cascading into criticals?

Also, does this mean that since ID is gone, now claws are going to be the weapons that ID characters and termies (through bigger damage numbers)?

>>95914596
I think Thallax in general are going to benefit from a lot of what's making tacticals viable
Sure they're more vulnerable to AP4, but for having T5 3W FNP(6+) they're very reasonably priced

>>95914808
No, as centurions and praetors have 3 and 4 wounds they'll need 2 hits from a D2 weapon.

>>95914796
Rerolls are gone, full stop. Everything modifies something or makes something automatic. Shred is Shred(X+) that triggers 1 additional bonus damage. Rending is on hit and automatically wounds counting as a 6+ for any other rules, does nothing for armor pen. Hatred is +1 to something I forget. Even BS6 makes a 6+ a crit, which is auto wound with bonus damage, instead of a 2+ to hit with reroll of a 6. BS10 is crit 2+.

>>95914808
>, now claws are going to be the weapons that ID characters and termies (through bigger damage numbers)?
Claws are (presumably) D1, so if they keep shred they would become D2, which IS enough to kill a terminator but not enough to kill a character (centurions now have 3w).
Fists are always D2 by comparison (and S+4 and Ap2)

>>95914808
AoS doesn't have crits on wound rolls, it just has multiple types of crit effects on hits.

>>95914815
but the whole thing making tacs more viable is that now nothing effectively delivers AP3 at range anymore, it's all AP4 BREACHING or shit like that. Also, now more guns are multi-damage. So effectively, Thallax still don't get an armor save, and now it takes less shots to kill them because multi damage

>>95914153
I like that the visor is bigger than standard mk2 helmets implying it's for someone who spends a lot of time surveying the battlefield, exactly the kind of thing a centurion would do

>>95914826
>it's all AP4 BREACHING or shit like that.
I think the trick is that nobody is going to actually take those, since they're all thinking about how to maximize AP3
>Also, now more guns are multi-damage
Apparently custodes got +1W, so thallax aren't out of the question either (I might be talking out of my ass on that one)
Plasma staying D1 helps, and thallax can shoot and scoot away from melta dudes fine. One of the upsides to remaining a ranged unit with tau movement

>>95914820
Also: If they keep rending, rather than breaching, claws will become INSANE at dealing with high toughness 3+ armor units (or 3+ in general) but bounce off any sort of 2+ save.

>>95914853
I mean, it depends entirely on how much list tailoring is involved. Do you let your friends know "hey I'm bringing admech next weekend" so they know not to make a super narrow anti-marine list like you usually would? Or do you just show up at the LGS and "Gotcha" all the Marine players with their disintegratos and power swords?

>>95914893
>and "Gotcha" all the Marine players with their disintegratos and power swords?
I think you can do that with adsecularii, since I'm pretty sure disintegrators shooting into them will do more damage in points to themselves than to the cyber zombies

Are Deredeos looking good this edition?

>>95914908
Wounds on a 5, only does 1 damage
Thallax's whole strength is being weirdly good into matchups you wouldn't expect

>>95914912
We'll have to see their guns, but being long ranged they'll probably be ok as long ranged anti-monster has taken a bit of a hit in 3.0 so far

>>95914893
Honestly desu that aspect has disappeared anyway. The reason that aspect resisted do much anti marine stuff was because they denied the common instant death thresholds, which is gone now - they just suffer the same amount of damage as a marine now, so all they've got is being able to take more damage with their additional wounds, so it comes down to how much stuff does 3+ damage and the pricing of our stuff.

>>95914908
>1 attack
It's ogre for the axe men.

>>95914970
>so it comes down to how much stuff does 3+ damage
Not *a ton* so far, but disintegrator cannons are definitely pretty scary
Regular meltas are a little less so because of their low range, but multimeltas will be a threat for sure

That being said, unless FNP gets changed it's against every point of damage after armor saves, so a D3 weapon getting through a thallax invul still gets 3 6+++ rolls to avoid death which isn't *amazing* odds but it's certainly better than nothing

>>95914974
I love my axemen tho...maybe i could try an axman..

>>95915022
We've seen FNP, it's not like 40k it resists after the wound roll not after damage, so only 1 FNP for all 3 damage

>>95911798
If you do that you are a massive cunt, which fits most of the mechanicum players I’ve met. The Feudal Hierarchy rule, like the other anon said, only said that you cannot take an archmagos on foot and another on abeyant. The faqs say which type of archmagos each named character corresponds to but not much else… So if I’m understanding this right he’s correct. Nothing is stopping you to take another archmagos of the same type with a named character

>>95909674
You have arguably *the* strongest troops choice, one of the strongest elites choices, and two of the strongest heavy support choices in the game, but everything else kinda sucks dick.

>thallax
Move/shoot/move jetpack line infantry with T5, W3, and a S7 Rending 4+ Shred gun. Nothing else in the troops slot is even remotely as useful as far as i'm concerned, and i'm an EC player.
>myrmidon secutors
BS5 Ogryns with a 3+/5++ and AP3 guns, they're the most durable and most effective anti-MEQ unit in the current edition of the game.
>myrmidon destructors
Same stats as the secutors, except everyone gets a S7 AP2 Heavy 2 Lance gun. Obscenely strong and durable firepower that also smacks things at AP3 in melee. Both Myrmidons are only WS4, but they have Hatred (Everything) which makes them kinda fuck surprisingly hard in melee.
>thanatar calix
S10 AP2 Heavy 3 Armourbane (Ranged) Shock Pulse gun on a T8 W7 2+/5++ platform means it can straight up delete a spartan each turn whilst requiring a fuck load of firepower to shut down.

Your entire army is made of strong shooting and your melee sucks outside of the two myrmidon units. I really can't stress hard enough just how much of your game plan has to revolve around thallax, myrmidons, and the thanatar calix. Thallax fly around and cap objectives and can stay both in cover and out of melee, a unit of six myrmidon secutors fires 36 BS5 S6 AP3 Breaching 4+ guns at anything they can see and then does the same again with an overwatch reaction when charged, the thallax shoots and likely blows up a spartan every single turn from the back of the board because for some reason they gave it a 48" range gun with full armourbane.

>>95915034
Seems to explicitly say after armor saves

>>95915036
>You can only take one Archmagos.
>There's another type of Archmagos who has a different datasheet because they're riding an abeyant; we specifically made a rule so you cannot take that guy and the one on foot...
>...but you can totally take an even rarer Named Archmagos AND your nameless one
It's getting more unlikely the more I think about it

>>95915041
>I really can't stress hard enough just how much of your game plan has to revolve around thallax, myrmidons, and the thanatar calix.
I'm the guy who wrote that post, than kyou for the in-depth response

Thankfully, those are all the models I think are the most awesome anyway, but I have a few questions:

1) Is the other thanatar worth taking? How many should I bother with?
2) Are the tanks any good?
3) Are domitars auto-takes? I'm okay getting myrmidons in resin but domitars I might wait for plastic
4) Are allying in knights a smart move?

>>95915064
You forgot to add
>each named archmagos also have special rule prohibiting taking other guy
Entire thing is just rule lawyering because GW couldn't word their intent properly.

>>95915064
If you want to ban double archmagos sure, but only if you let me give scoria the Cybernetica high techno Arcana because after 3 years and 2 targeted FAQs he STILL denies you your army rule if you play him otherwise. It's like if taking sigismund took away your Legiones astartes and banned you from taking rites of war.

>>95915041
>in the current edition of the game.
I'm calling it now, Secutors are getting reamed this edition
>Thanatar, Castellax
Watch them go down to WS3. And I'm betting the new damage rules won't be kind to them either

>>95915118
Anon thallax and castellax are currently WS3. Did you mean WS2?

>>95915088
>Is the other thanatar worth taking? How many should I bother with?
The cavas is fine, you just have to overload the gun to get the most out of it and that means you're taking extra wounds every time you shoot. The calix is just better value for the points, on top of being good anti-vehicle in an army that has surprisingly little anti-vehicle options.

>Are the tanks any good?
Not really. The triaros is cool, especially with S10 ram attacks, but it lacks assault vehicle. The macrocarid is a legacies unit that *has* assault vehicle, but you can't buy a flare shield so it's much weaker than a spartan. The karacnos sounds cool until you notice all of the weapons have the blast rule so a crew shaken result means you can no longer shoot any of them. Your best bet is probably to use the Triaros with Myrmidons to get them in range with their guns faster.

>Are domitars auto-takes?
Not really. They're good, even with WS4 holding them back, but they're meant to be punching vehicles and that's tricky at the best of times. They look cool though and if your Archmagos takes the Cybernetica arcana you can use them as a brick wall bodyguard.

>Are allying in knights a smart move?
Not really. Knights are overcosted and generally underperform.

>>95915088
>Is the other thanatar worth taking?
Yes, with the caveat that plasma bombards got raped by 3.0 so I wouldn't be surprised if Thanatar Cavas also sucks balls now
>Tanks
Again depends on the blast nerfs
>Domitar
Nah, they're not very good
>Knights
Don't think so, especially with new rules
>>95915124
whoops, forgot about that. Maybe that means they won't get touched since they're still shit in melee

>>95915118
>he forgot how shit everything in mechanicum already is at melee

>>95915022
>so a D3 weapon getting through a thallax invul still gets 3 6+++ rolls to avoid death which isn't *amazing* odds but it's certainly better than nothing

That's a 43% chance of avoiding instant death.

Do we have rending pony 3.0 rules yet? Or do we have to wait for libers to drop?

>>95915180
Have a dedicated Melee specialization for your big fancy HQ you can only have one of
>It's still worse than a praetor
Sad beeps

>>95915193
And even if you only save 1, he can eat an entire extra melta shot the next time around

New breachers have the correct elbow armour

>>95915251
It's punishment for Scoria's bad touch.

>>95915262
Are they new models or is it just upgrade kit for mk III?

>>95915271
Upgrade

>>95915251
Granted, if you see this list of options and your first instinct isn't to load it with as many big guns as possible, I weep for you

The idea of an archmagos cowboying two archaeotech revolvers while having two artillery cannons on his back makes me giddy

>>95915263
But Scoria isn't nearly as good anymore.

>>95915256
Yeah, anybody that played 40k in 8th/9th knows the level of cancer that is fnp with multi wound units.

>>95915251
It's actually kind of ok when you remember you can make all of your attacks with the data spike. Your A3 becomes 4 with two weapons, 6 with the machinator array, and you have preferred enemy (characters). Reach 2 on the dataspike means you're hitting that praetor at I6, and all of your attacks have Breaching 4+ and Murderous Strike 6+. WS5 sucks but it's not the worst combat character ever.

>>95915276
But if you upgrade it with guns you can't so any repairing or cast Cybertheurgy, which are way more useful than some extra plasma
God I hate playing mechanical sometimes

Isn't fnp on the woud better? Because if its multi damage you get more chances to pass? Like you might still take 2 damage, bur save one, but thats better than just getting one chance

>>95915279
But he was, and now punishment is here.

>>95915314
Math wise, they're exactly the same if nothing can cancel FNP
Feels wise, it's gonna feel way worse when you get a 6+++ roll per wound and each fail removes an entire thallax.

>>95915313
Stop being reasonable, that's for flesh people

>>95915298
Oh, and you're also obviously T5 W3 with a 2+/3++ so you're gonna survive a few thunder hammer bonks if you don't roll a 6 on the first round of combat.

>>95915314
It's much better per point of damage because multi-damage weapons don't carry over wounds, so if you save even one 6+++, the thallax lives and requires an entire extra shot to deal with

>>95914912
Probably worse than before. Theyre more vulnerable to guns like lascannons now and are (as far as we can tell) worse at shooting now, being only Bs4. But we dont know points costs or weapon profiles for them, or special rules.

>>95908287
>infantry spam
shut up mortarion

>>95915314
There are two situations where it matters.

For multi-wound models FNP per wound is significantly better than once per attack.

Say you have a 3 wound powerfist character eat a dmg 3 attack with 5+ FNP only on 1 dice. That means 2/3rds of the time he fails the only save, dies and doesn't get to even swing his weapon and only 33% of the time passes and swings his weapon.

If it's per wound, then you can pass one of the three or two of the three or three of the three and he might be partially wounded but he still gets to splatter the other guy with the powerfist. You have to fail all 3 dice rolls simultaneously to die without swinging.

For single-wound models, FNP per attack is significantly better than a test for each wound. As a dmg3 attack hitting 1-wound plague daemons that have a 5+ FNP means they only survive it 11% of the time (they only roll 3x5+ in 1/9 of time) while if it's per attack, they survive 33% of the time. Huge difference if your army is all like FNP nurgle daemons like some editions have done.

>>95915325
is entirely full of shit, see basic math above

>>95915314
If you shoot damage 3 weapons against W3 models with a 6+ fnp, 10 failed saves kills 8.333 models when doing fnp once for each wound while killing only 7.04 of them if you do do for each damage.

>>95915271
they said it's an upgrade. not just for mk3, but seems the most fitting
>>95915262
probably using the arm from the mk3 bodies, then. the hand doesn't have the rivets that mk2 and 3 have, so it doesn't seem like the upgrade is designed with mk3 specific elements.

FNP better be rare as fuck this edition, because with ID gone its basically a second invuln.

>>95915633
Feel no pain only for Solar Aux and Mechanicum nyes

>>95915633
Apothecaries are presumably 1 per slot now and will compete with other shooty support units.

>>95912529
>more rules next week
just give us the box already james you've been at this for a month already

>>95915633
Used to be that low enough AP also negated ID. Or maybe apothecaries become like before, where you can save one killed model from dying?

>>95915633
It's not even just the ID, if they had put damage mitigation after damage it'd at least make fucking sense. If FnP is the same as before you are going to see tacticals tanking D4 weapons like it's no one's business

>>95915633
GW are happy to hand it out as regen in TOW so I doubt it, and with status being a bigger deal they probably feel that being less lethal is mitigated.

>>95913109
Brutal and ID are gone
Just from that half the attacks that wound a cataphractii are just thrown away with the invulnerable.
3A, hit with half, discard half. You'll be lucky to kill 1 guy

>>95912809
This sounds fantastic, and exactly how flyers should interact with a game of this scale(if they must exist at all) - almost not at all.

>>95915817
Rumor is Preorder Preview sunday
I heard that July 19th was a significant date so that would fit

>>95915884
regeneration doesent work vs killing blow/monster slayer (or a bunch of special damage types like shrieks)

>>95915942
the sooner it comes out, the more likely it'll be 30-40% off by black friday when stores want to get the unsold horus heresy crap off their shelves, cmon GW release it already

>>95915884
I've actually started considering that idea lately, with everything nerfed to shit they might be going for a less lethal game, with units sticking around for more turns and a bugger focus on status effects.

Then again we all know what happened when they made 40k "less lethal". Also, this will lead to a lot more bookkeeping ad possibly longer games

>>95915958
Rules change, models are eternal. Paint your dudes and laugh when 5e makes them OP again

>>95915986
>paint
I'm not even assembling models until I know if said models will exist as intended.

>>95915978
The thing is that all missions are 4 turns now. WFB gets away with damage being low because the game is just slower, armies dont usually get to grips with each other until like turns 2/3 and combats can regularly last multiple turns. The game is also 6 turns.

>>95915978
yeah it's not a good direction, 4th ed was extremely lethal but played the best, no reason to draw out combats and firefights, it just makes positioning less impactful. It's also a bad idea if challenges are suddenly going to take up more time.

>>95915969
>want to get the unsold horus heresy crap off their shelves
Idk where this meme comes from, 30k is gws third most popular game and is under printed, plus saturnine js a permanent starter set, not a limited run box

>>95915978
>possibly longer games
Good more play time is great

>>95915978
>All your units live through the game
>Spend 90% of the time pinned, stunned and or suppressed so they might as well not be there

My first Leviathan and my second ever dreadnought, couldn't resist having a melee Leviathan for World Eaters

>>95916033
30k is the one game I trust options to remain the same with only points and stats changing. Especially the popular units. What exactly are you afraid of?

new heresy >>95916203

>>95916038
Sure you may only get 4 turns, but each tun will be longer between placing all the little stunned and pinned and AIDS and other tokens, all the new phases, rolling it back because oops I forgot these guys were pinned, we need to reroll that attack, etc.

>>95915986
not him but I'm in the same place, why build stuff thats not going to be useable.

I have 10 companions with jumppacks and combi weapons on the table about to be assembled, my friend is working on combi weapon Mor Daythan, why build them if that load out might be unavailable.

>>95916263
Just dont forget your guys are pinned anon? Its not that hard. And they got rid of basically all rerolls.

>>95907942 (OP)
>TQ
The only faction I care about isn't even getting their book on launch. I'm not touching them until GW does so first.

>>95915958
I'm sperging out! Turns out this triggers me immensely