Not including GURPS (which my group doesn't like), are there any credible generic systems that have the tools necessary to run a pulpy, distant post-apocalyptic game? Not hardscrabble 'a single bullet is a treasure' post-apoc, but 'I have a 250 year old dubstep cannon powered by a nuclear battery' post-apoc. Half-decent vehicle rules are a plus, mutie rules are a must. Caster content is fine as long as I don't have to nerf it into the dust to get anything but a party of not-wizards.

Only thing I know of in this vein myself off-hand would be Barbarians of the Aftermath, which is just an additional rule book for an outdated version of BoL.

>>95913069 (OP)
Fuck off

Have you tried GURPS?

>>95913069 (OP)
BRP

DnD

>>95913257
Not a single edition of D&D would be even slightly useful for this.
>>95913245
Nor would BRP unless you're telling OP to basically make what he wants himself.

I hate to over-post this shit but it *is* my recommendation for most of these threads:

Take a look at Stars Without Number.
>profoundly advanced lost-tech
>support for any setting from neolithic to post-scarcity (the TL column in this table stands for Tech Level)
>skill system stolen from Traveller
>only three classes
>the psionic class is neat and does not resemble the wizard shit you're girding to put up with

and if doesn't work, the same author is releasing Ashes Without Number (hardscrabble apoc) sometime in the next few months.

>>95913366
I'll keep an eye out for the coming one and review SWN to see if it'll work, and if not, if it can at least contribute.

>>95913069 (OP)
Star Wars D6 works perfectly fine as a generic system.

>>95913069 (OP)
Savage Worlds.

>>95913675
Any of its subsystems/expansions a must have for this?

>>95913069 (OP)
I've never played it, but consider looking into pic related.

>>95913722
There's a third party setting called Darwin's world that is post apoc that you could probably steal some shit from, but you can do everything you'd need with the core book and some homebrew. Alternatively, the Scifi companion will be out soon and it might have some stuff in there, and fantasy companion has base building rules which might be of use refluffed.
>>95913797
I have ran a game of it, and it's very bad. An incredibly half baked adaptation of a good game system, absolutely not worth it

>>95913828
>Scifi companion will be out soon
it has been out for a while already
and yeah it could be useful for what OP wants.

>>95913828
Heartbreaking to hear, the cover art sells it as dead on for the sort of apocalypse being talked about.

>>95913675
>Savage Worlds.
No. Savage Worlds is a dogshit system. Especially since SWADE added even more complex rules that work directly against the "up down or off the table" mindset for combat. First of all, Savage Worlds isn't a roleplaying game, it's a miniatures wargame for boomers, with loads of fuddlore on the guns, shotguns being undodgable cones of death, boomers who don't understand math so they make every bonus a +2 in a game where the default roll to succeed is a single d6, the skill system is horribly balanced (gambling skill costs the same as Fighting which is used for all melee attacks AND grappling), Wild Attack option so overpowered, half the Edges (basically feats) are trap options. Exploding dice make the game a ridiculous mess, and someone can take like 57 damage. Then the soak rules don't explain how you actually soak that, are you soaking the 57 damage or just the four wounds it would cause you? Or are you effectively taking like 10 or 12 wounds and need 9 to 11 raises to soak all that damage? The game never explain, despite including exploding dice and thus boundless damage rolls. The system is just depressingly bad. I've run it, I've played it, it's fun at first so you could probably get a decent pulp campaign out of it. But goddamn does it get old FAST.

>>95913069 (OP)
Savage Worlds

>>95913069 (OP)
FATE
Gamma World
Mutant Future

>>95913069 (OP)
>pulpy, distant post-apocalyptic game
Savage Worlds would be the obvious go-to. Ignore the guy sperging out about it. That's VirtualOptim and when he's not defending FATAL, he's sperging out about SW

Have you considered GURPS?

>>95914531

No, seriously. You see, GURPS is an amazing system, and only certified retards don't get that. It's like AutoCAD - when you actually know what you're doing, you can build the space shuttle. If you can't make GURPS work, you're both stupid AND lazy.

>>95913069 (OP)
Savage Worlds

>>95913428
Mini Six is the modern iteration, and is exactly what I was going to suggest. Steal the alien rules from OpenD6 Space for your mutants, boom done.

>>95913997
Oh, hey, it's the Savage Worlds troll. Haven't seen you around in awhile.

You can ignore this shithead, OP, he's a salty obsessed retard who apparently cannot read.

>>95914721
Did Mini six 2e ever realease?

>>95913859
Its a huge bummer, I bought it when I had Demon Lord going as my main game thinking it would be a perfect fit, and it's essentially tie-in shovelware for a minis game.

The fucking character sheet doesn't even have all of the relevant info it needs, I think it was based on an older version of the game.

>>95914778
BKE is still in development, you can read an alpha of it. Doesn't change a lot: basically the two authors had a spat and decided to fork the game over it.

>>95913069 (OP)
O GRIFTS, I mean RAFTS, I mean SHRIFTS, I mean...

>>95913069 (OP)
GURPS would be your best bet (I didn't read a single word in your post after the word GURPS)

>>95913350
That was the idea though, OP wanted a generic system with the tools to make his setting and it'd definitely work.

>>95913350
>Not a single edition of D&D would be even slightly useful for this.
D20 modern. Though it's apparently so terrible that it's the next joke after everybody had a good laugh about FATAL.

>>95913997
Lmao this rant is such nonsense.

>>95914274
>>95914619
Savage Worlds was already refuted here: >>95913997

>>95914294
I never defended FATAL, it's a badly-designed game and only valuable as an object of ridicule for entertainment and hilarity. And no, savage worlds is not the "obvious go to"

>>95914771
Ad hominem is not an argument.

>>95916503
Not an argument.

>>95918580
Alright, I'm not arguing with you, because you're a retard, but I will rebut you for the sake of OP

>Especially since SWADE added even more complex rules that work directly against the "up down or off the table" mindset for combat.
If you think SWADE is complex, you might be suffering from some sort of Oliver Sacksian brain malady.
>First of all, Savage Worlds isn't a roleplaying game, it's a miniatures wargame for boomers
Not an argument.
>shotguns being undodgable cones of death
You aren't able to dodge guns at all, and shotguns are usually gonna do 2d6, unless you're right up close, which is where you don't want to be in regards to a shotgun.
>boomers who don't understand math so they make every bonus a +2 in a game where the default roll to succeed is a single d6
You can go from +/- 1 to 4, not even sure what this fucking complaint is. Honestly it barely comes up in my game.
>the skill system is horribly balanced (gambling skill costs the same as Fighting which is used for all melee attacks AND grappling)
Makes sense when you remember that it's the weird child of Deadlands, where gambling is one of the important skills of one of it's showcase classes
>Wild Attack option so overpowered
Nah.
>half the Edges (basically feats) are trap options
List them

>>95918818
>Exploding dice make the game a ridiculous mess, and someone can take like 57 damage.
Yeah and I could roll Nat 20s every time and D&d and unbalance it. The game not accounting for something that's insanely unlikely to happen isn't a bug.
>Then the soak rules don't explain how you actually soak that, are you soaking the 57 damage or just the four wounds it would cause you? Or are you effectively taking like 10 or 12 wounds and need 9 to 11 raises to soak all that damage? The game never explain, despite including exploding dice and thus boundless damage rolls.
It explains it perfectly, you soak the wounds. How is your reading comprehension so bad?
>The system is just depressingly bad. I've run it, I've played it, it's fun at first so you could probably get a decent pulp campaign out of it. But goddamn does it get old FAST.
I seriously doubt you've run it, but if you did, you ran it on a massive, basic misunderstanding of the entire rules system, possibly because you are near illiterate.

>>95914283
>Mutant Future
Came to say this. Correct.

>>95918822
but he is right though

>>95914913
RIFTS had almost the right feel very early on. It was over the top and had magic and psionics, but you could restrict things and make a pretty good "hardscrabble survivors amid the hypertech ruins" type campaign, maybe reduce the CS to regular Illinois Nazis. Now there's more going on, the setting has expanded and progressed, but you could probably still restrict some options and get a campaign like OP wants. Restrict classes to City Rats, Headhunters, Rogue Scholars, Vagabonds, Wilderness Scouts and similar, maybe find an irradiated mutant class or race and restrict gear to SDC, or give MDC armor an AR so there's a risk of a lucky shot just vaporizing you.

>>95918818
>You aren't able to dodge guns at all,
There's a literal dodge edge

>>95918818
1. Complexity is relative and SWADE is more complex than SWEE, and it's the extra conditions that are the issue.

2. It is an argument because the game is so focused on miniatures combat that if you use Theater of the Mind you're cucking yourself.

3. You can dodge guns, it's an edge. And a +2 to hit means you only miss on a 1 normally, which is a ridiculous representation of shotgun spread.

4. Most of the modifiers in the game are +2s and -2s. A +1 is already a huge bonus, equivalent of +4 in a DND game. A +2 is like a fucking +8. The developers never considered this games math at all. They just took "lol +2" advice from D&D 3.5 and put it in their own game with completely different math.

5. It doesn't matter if it's based on dead lands, it's a generic system and needs to act like it. Niche skills are fine but at least make them cost less.

6. Wild Attack is used proactively, giving you the advantage before suffering the downside. In a game like Savage Worlds where you can easily one shot monsters it turns into a complete power wank. Unless you're completely surrounded, which is the scenario SWfags always jump to to justify why Wild Attack ISNT overpowered, it's the right move to make. Go look up why charging builds in D&D 3.5 were overpowered, even though they involved dropping your Armor Class to 0 in many cases. And inb4 you jump on me for mentioning D&D 3.5 twice as if that's some kind of argument. I'm using it as an example because Savage Worlds isnom the same level of game design. Wild Attack gives you two huge bonuses for a single drawback which will be even less of a drawback after you act first and basically automatically kill an enemy. And given extra damage from hitting with a raise, it's even more powerful.

>>95918822

8. Disingenuous because Savage Worlds doesn't use d20s, the die least likely to explode. Exploding dice happen all the time especially since you're rolling two or more dice per check, and all are smaller than d20s. Go read about expected values from exploding dice because I'm too lazy to retype that shit here for you to just ignore it because "LOL LE NAT 20s"

9. "You soak the wounds" okay how many? If I get by a nuclear bomb for 1 million damage and roll a soak check and get 3 raises am I perfectly fine? If I have toughness 7 and get shot for 47 damage I'm taking ten wounds. Four will kill me. So do I need to soak 7 to be barely standing or just one? This is relevant if you play shit like Necessary Evil which I bet your zoomer ass hasn't even heard of, but the game doesn't explain it properly.

10. If you doubt I've run it, that's fine. But I've run literally hundreds of sessions. You're the equivalent of a Facebook antivaxxer replying to a biomedical researcher and saying "bullshit"

>>95921371
1-5 are all not arguments.
As for six, this seems like it would only be a problem if you are consistently pitting your theoretical wild attack character against single opponents, and no ranged enemies. The game isn't shit, your encounter design is shit.
Point 8, you're missing the fucking point you absolute moron. You aren't going to be rolling millions of damage all of the time because that's highly fucking unlikely. You don't need to balance a game around extreme edge cases. The die doesn't matter, and the fact that that's what you're arguing about, and not the actual argument, really showcases what an absolute ignoramus you are.
9, they explain how soaking wounds work, very clearly in the book. The fact you continue to not understand this is because you are illiterate.

Again, if you've run "100s of sessions," you've done wrong, and badly, because you apparently don't know how to read. The thought of you running a game that you don't like, and don't understand, for hundreds of sessions, is actually really funny, and I hope it's true, because you deserve to be unhappy.

>>95918818
Oh my bad I forgot

7. Loads of the edges suck. Dead Shot and Mighty Blow are shit, since you need the joker for them to work. Unless you also take Level Headed and Improved Level Headed alongside.

Hard to Kill is replaced by Nerves of Steel and Improved Nerves of Steel. Unless you're getting one shotted. All of those edges are trash anyway, no one takes them. If I'm taking edges for a fail case I'd better not be taking 3 fucking edges for it.

Martial Artist is shit since you can't improve it until Veteran and are stuck with d4 damage until then.

Extraction and Improved Extraction are also so situational that you'd be a retard to take them. Take some edge that lets you kill someone instead of running away from them, maybe it'd be worth it if it was one edge but not two.

Block is ironically a trap if you srent using a shield or some other Parry buff because against your standard d6 mooks where you have a 6 Parry from d8 fighting requirement, the +1 from block becomes meaningless because if they roll a 6 they automatically hit whether your party is 6 or 7 due to how retarded exploding dice work.

Brave is just utter shit.

No Mercy sucks unless your GM is handing out extra bennies every time you make le epic Marvel Avengers your momma quip, so I guess it's actually not bad. Score one for SWfags.

Thief, Woodsman, etc give you +2 on skills but with wild die and a d8 skill you already have like a 90 percent chance of success and this boosts it to like 99 percent so cool you spent an edge for 9 percent better success rate on mother-may-I type skill checks.

Danger Sense is shit since most GMs let you roll notice to detect an ambush anyway lol wtf is that?

Trademark Weapon isnt a bad feat but it's fucking retarded because it encourages people to just name their weapon for a +1.

>>95918580
Notice that he didn't deny being VirtualOptim? You have no reason to listen to this faggot.

>>95921577
AHAHAHAHAHAHAA
4 is a literal argument against the math of the system. A shotgun in the hands of a Somali militiaman is as effective as a regular rifle in the hands of a US marine. The game throws around +2s like it's nothing. Also why do you think so many combats take place more than 60 feet apart? Or 72 since SW has an inch be 6 feet? Just run up closer and shoot your shotgun and negate their light cover. That's if you're not just fighting zombies or aliens or whatever that attack you in the open. Aiming is one thing since you take a full round to do it. But a "lol le spread shot meme" isn't worth a +2. The spread is like 1 inch per yard. And again the same shit with Wild Attack, three round burst, etc.

>you don't need to balance a game around extreme edge cases
I've seen people hit for 50+ damage form exploding dice, the game literally has listed damage for plasma cannons with 5d8 damage, you're a fucking retard. There's a RIFTS sourcebook with a glitter boy power armor rail gun class. You're an idiot if you think mega damage never happens in Savage Worlds.
>The thought of you running a game that you don't like, and don't understand, for hundreds of sessions, is actually really funny, and I hope it's true, because you deserve to be unhappy.
Do you think I picked up all these complaints by reading the book and then chose to run hundreds of sessions? LMAO this is from years of running the game until I finally got sick of it. That's why I told OP he might enjoy it for one short campaign. You could claim I just got sick of the system but I've played ACKS, D&D BX, Traveller, and GURPS for just as long and never had these sorts of complaints.

>>95921673
>Autism intensifies

>>95913069 (OP)
Personally I have never had all the problems OP seems to have with Savage Worlds, though it is kind of showing its age as a system. And if OP hates it it dosent really matter what I say.


GURPS is not fun. If you have fun cool, but I do not find it fun to run or play in.


Fudge would work
i would try the generic forged in the dark book.
I also enjoy apocalypse world for short games
The generic gensys is OK
CORTEX is more crunchy while still being “fast” if you can figure out how to use it

There are like a million OSR mutant apocalypse games, but I never enjoy OSR as much as I wish I would

>>95922062
Not an argument.

>>95922145
GURPS is a great game but not for everyone.

Fudge is GURPS level DIY for storyshitters.
Forged in the Dark is some indie meme RPG
Apocalypse Worlds is good but it's only good for Apocalypse World.
Genesys is "i made money off a shitty game linked to one of the biggest IPs in the world so therefore it's a good system: the RPG" with le epic 15 dollar special dice
Cortex is like Savage Worlds and FATE had a shitty abortion together and it was picked up by some fat retard who decided to turn it into an actual game. All I remember is the firefly RPG used it and God that was overwrought trash.

>>95918818
>shotguns are usually gonna do 2d6, unless you're right up close, which is where you don't want to be in regards to a shotgun.
Shotgun damage falling off within a few yards is an extremely Fudd / Video Game mechanic. Probably suitable for a game system which is meant to be 'pulp' or 'cinematic' rather than realistic, which SW is (although I would argue that the writers have no real understanding of the pulp genre, or are fucking retards who can't implement game mechanics to support genre assumptions, but that's common enough that most systems have similar issues).

>>95913069 (OP)
Generic? You are gonna have your work cut out for you modding shit pretty much across the board, so pick one with a resolution mechanic you like and use that.
>Roll under d100
BRP
>Narrative dice
Genesys
>Exploding dice with meta currency
Savage Worlds (probably the best if you want pulpy, high action bullshit)

Alternatively you could run Gamma World.

>>95922145
>>95924524
NTA but I think Gurps is awful and I played it for a few months. It's in the top 5 worst systems I've ever played along with Savage Worlds.

>>95913069 (OP)
Ironic. I'm using GURPS for this, ever tried it? You don't and shouldn't use all the rules anon.

>>95921371
>>95921428

Jesus Christ, this is dumb.

Savage Worlds is just about making combat fast and moving shit along. It isn't balanced, it isn't tactical, it isn't deep, it's not even trying to be any of that shit either.

Just move it forward with easy to understand rules so you aren't having a conflict with 4 PCs and 10 mob enemies take a god damn hour to resolve.

>>95924681
If you're being serious, I'm curious what your favorite systems are.

>>95924792
5e, of course. It's just so elegant.

>>95922145
>the problems OP seems to have with Savage Worlds
That isn't OP.

>>95924792
Mythras is my go-to, unironically.

Savage Worlds
The higher chance for dice up to explode at low dice sizes is balanced by the equal chance the lower dice explode down.

>>95924524
>storyshitters
Lol and on top of it all you're one of these fuckin' retards. Unsurprising.

>>95924524
Genesys narrative dice existed before Star Wars stuff but I am not surprised you didn't know that because you obviously never used it

>>95922145
>GURPS is not fun
Your opinions are retarded.

>>95922145
Cortex is such a weird game honestly. There's so many abstract dice tricks and then after that it's totally freeform

Always kinda wanted to do a 'failed state' post-apocalypse. Think like developed Africa when the Europeans left, only with power armor and arcologies instead of trains and palaces. The people running the show still pretend to be a legitimate government but society has more or less collapsed and technology is falling backwards as it breaks and the modern day folks cannot replace it, let alone improve on it. And unlike real life, there's no rich stable country to go steal welfare from, you're just stuck trying to do the best you can in a society that has visibly gotten much worse since you were a kid.

>>95925522
Well, I think you’re wrong about GURPS, but Mythras is great so that’s hard to shit on.

>>95913069 (OP)
>are there any credible generic systems that have the tools necessary to run a pulpy, distant post-apocalyptic game?
Savage Worlds, it's great.

>>95913069 (OP)
Have you tried...
>Not including GURPS (which my group doesn't like)
Oh, well, would you be interested in Atomic Robo, powered by FATE?

>>95924681
Your GM sucked ass. GURPS is an elegant tool from a more civilized age

>>95924681
Bait

>>95930999
Any time someone describes any aspect of an RPG as elegant I know it's a shit RPG that is just being promoted by contrarian faggots.

>>95932451
Not an argument.

>>95913069 (OP)
>pulpy, distant post-apocalyptic game? Not hardscrabble 'a single bullet is a treasure' post-apoc, but 'I have a 250 year old dubstep cannon powered by a nuclear battery' post-apoc.
>vehicle rules
that just sounds like Gaslands, though sadly it's not a generic rpg, its a thematic wargame, you'll have to add and mod the rest yourself. But hey, if turning a wargame into an rpg worked for Gary Gygax it can work for you too.

Genesys.

>>95913069 (OP)
I'd say that FATE is a good bet. You will need to delve trhough the supplements, but they are plentyful, tend to be short and easy to read and are quite fun.

>>95913069 (OP)
>generic
>pulp
>post-apo
>magic or similar present
From the top of my head:
Wushu
Feng Shui (suggest 2e)
Outgunned
Anything on Ubiquity, like Hollow Earth Expedition, Desolation or Leagues of Adventure
Achtung Cthulhu and Conan 2d20
Savage Worlds
Genesys
Barbaren
Unironically Pulp Cthulhu

My top picks for this would be either Wushu, Hollow Earth or Conan, depending on your group and their style of play

>>95914531
>>95914551
>>95913195
>>95924694
>>95930999
GURPSfags literally assume anyone who doesn't like their system is just someone who hasn't read it and/or run/played it or just didn't 'play it correctly'.
Even if you were to clarify to them that you've run the game over the course of three years, and did 8+ games of different genres, and played in a number of games in the system, they legitimately can't accept the fact you don't like their game and it's you just not 'getting it' that's the problem.

As for a recommendation or two, Genesys is definitely a decent one, and for a wildcard that no one's mentioned yet: Shadowrun 5th Edition is rather serviceable for numerous sci-fantasy types of games, if you do a bit (see: quite a decent bit) of carpentry on the system, but take this particular rec with a grain of salt.

>>95937735
>they legitimately can't accept
I am a GURPSfag and you are very correct in this, I literally do not believe you. The system plays the same or better than anything I've ever played. It's no more complex than pathfinder unless you go searching for complexity. What's there not to like? Or better yet, what is there to hate?

>>95937920
Expected reaction.
Do you need me to submit my credentials of having run GURPS games? I've run a zombie survival one-shot-turned-short campaign, the official DF dragon king tomb adventure, two Psi-Wars games, a near-future detective game, the Zeitgeist adventure path, and Shadowrun. I've PLAYED IN a quite a handful of games, too. I don't know why someone not finding the system overall to their taste is such a problem.
Shall I mention my problem of the game feeling way too bland and same-y even when I'm using rigorous houserules that should, in theory, make the game feel different, and that I've felt that at numerous tables? The fact that combat in the game often tends to devolve into the parties either facing either a) instant death, or at minimum instant combat uselessness, or b) a drawn-out hours-long fight due to being both parties way too competent. Maybe a literal 20 minute turn because of the rules in imbuements mandating needless rolling to check for failure?

FATAL.
>refuse to elaborate

>>95937920
>It's no more complex than pathfinder

This is damning with faint praise, my dude.

>>95938220
>Do you need me to submit my credentials of having run GURPS games?
That's not the part I don't believe anon.

>Shall I mention my problem of ...
Yes that's expressly what I'm asking for. In what way is it bland that other systems aren't also bland? In what way is it samey that other systems aren't also samey? There are numerous optional rules that are simple and easy to implement that make combat as lethal or as squishy as you want it to be. If you don't want the players to die when they get shot in the face with a shotgun, maybe use the optional rules that mitigate or do away with that issue all together.

You talk about hours-long fights as if that's a gurps exclusive thing. I consider myself particularly lucky if a fight is both entertaining AND less than an hour long in any system.

>Maybe a literal 20 minute turn because of the rules in imbuements mandating needless rolling to check for failure?
I've never touched imbuements in my life so I can't speak to them directly, but I've never taken 20 minutes to roll checks for anything. Even 20 minutes to look up the rules is an extreme outlier at any table I've been at with a GM who wasn't a low-functioning autistic.

>>95938649
Then say what you don't believe clearly?
Same-y as in, when I pull up to any given table, I can easily expect no character to feel particularly unique, and I'll know that this is just GURPS character #15,334. I can't precisely express to you WHY I feel the way I do without a massive tangent, which I'd rather not do.
Also, having used several systems to make things not die so fast, be it stun points (and variants thereof), none actually solve the fundamental problem of rocket tag.
Also, hours long combats aren't the problem. The fact that it's a dichotomy I mentioned is the problem. Sessions where a LEGITIMATELY simple fight eats up majority of the time are not fun when they are the norm.
As for imbuements, the resolution of the imbues requires a myriad of rolls, so a player acting quickly needs to roll several checks to calculate them all, then needs to resolve the attack they're delivering them thru... and every time I saw it used, 10-20 mins were eaten up.

>>95938649
>Well, yeah, it's horrible and bad, but *every system* is horrible and bad! What is even your point!

>>95913997
NTA but I played one (1) session of Savage Worlds and have never touched it since. Quite possibly the worst system I've ever played, though that IS subjective.

For the record I hate GURPS too but even that I could stomach longer than SW.

>>95939013
Genuinely hate how GURPSfags just assume you haven't played it or tried any options, then when you explicate that you have, they seethe and tell you that "WELL MAYBE YOU SHOULD DO THIS THING THAT YOU ALREADY TRIED, OH WAIT, YOU MUST HAVE DONE IT WRONG...!!!!"
This guy could ask me if I've tried altering the game in x or y, and affirming that I have would never be enough to be allowed to say I dislike the game, and I'd be doubted as having ACTUALLY done it or having done enough. It's insanely self-righteous behavior where they think their game is above sentimental reasons explaining dislike and if you don't like it, you're objectively wrong. It's literally like PF2e fangoy-tier cult behavior where your dislike is AKSHUALLY wrong, even if you clarify you just don't like the game and that's it.

>>95938875
>I can't precisely express to you WHY I feel the way I do without a massive tangent, which I'd rather not do.
It seems to me this kind of sums up (almost) every point you've made. I can't reasonably respond to them without further information and detail. Your first point about things being same-y I can't even respond to meaningfully without further information, other than to say my experience differs greatly. If you don't want to engage in conversation and reasonable debate I think it might be faster for all of us if you just call me a nigger next time, afterwhich I'll call you a faggot and we can move on.

>>95939131
I never asked to hop on stream for a debate, Destiny. I just found it funny how many GURPSfags insist on OP using GURPS because they think anyone who dislikes it is just misguided and never tried it, or if they tried it, they didn't try it enough. Your insisting on debating something that amounts to personal taste is literally the shit that makes GURPSfags unbearable, alongside levying doubt on my experiences being valid because you had fun with something.
"I don't like it."
"You're wrong and I doubt you've tried this book/rule! My GURPS experience was better!"
"I did try that; I still don't like it"
I literally never asked for a debate, and my responses were annoyance about this gay experience-doubting shit that GURPSfags are prone to.

>>95939205
>debating something that amounts to personal taste
I genuinely don't view it as that. I'm not debating the merits of red gatorade versus blue over here, I'm just saying that every time you describe your own feelings on GURPS it sounds like something that applies more or less the same to every other system I've ever experienced.

>I literally never asked for a debate
Sure, that's fine, just understand that it shouldn't exactly a surprise when someone posts their views in response to yours, particularly here on /tg/.

>>95939545
>I, a person who apparently hates every ttrpg, am the person in should listen to!

SWADE is a great system for pulp. The complaint above shows a clear lack of understanding pulp. For post apocalypse swade see The After.

>>95939545
>I genuinely don't view it as that
Isn't that the whole point? You think your taste is objectively correct, which makes you an obnoxious faggot.

>>95913069 (OP)
First ed Apocalypse World. Does everything you want listed, doesn't have much get in the way of what you listed, runs fast and works well enough for a 6-12 session campaign.
Or RIFTS is you're the right kind of retarded.

>>95941520
No, it's not about taste. If you say GURPS has complex and difficult math beyond what's normal for RPG's for example, you're just wrong. If you say you don't like the one second rounds, THAT would be a matter of taste.

I liked the mini campaign I ran of Genesys but the game has a lethality problem. If you’re against an adversary or rival killing them takes forever. Apparently at high XP it’s like rocket tag but when I played combat would have been a slog if I hadn’t made it more objective based. Nobody died in the final fight although the wizard got slapped around by the dragon like a ball of yarn by a kitten.

>>95941872
Adversaries and rivals are like level bosses and final bosses respectively. It supposed to be a right bitch to kill the former and a massive challenge to kill the latter. They are supposed to be use very sparingly as a result. With mob rules being baked in a typical end fight should just be against beefed up basic bitch enemies with the GM abusing the meta currency. Save the adversary for the end of an adventure chain and the rival for the big bad of the campaign where slog fights are appropriate.

>>95939092
Your complaint about Savage Worlds is the best kind of complaint to give and by far the most valid kind of complaint to give.

It boils down to "I tried it and didn't care for it" and that's 100% legitimate and doesn't need to be expanded upon.

I like SW, personally, but understand it has faults that are dealing breakers. It's all good.

GURPS fags want a college thesis on why their preferred system isn't your preferred system. If you given them said thesis, they will still say you are "wrong" and "retarded" or any other number of insults. It's bad enough that I hate GURPS because of its fan base more than the system.

>>95941995
>Dealing breakers

I hate posting on my phone so much it is unreal.

>>95926432
Wait, anti-SW autist, virtualoptim and the fag who forced that meme...couldn't all be the same guy could they?

Like could a single brain even hold that level of autism?

>>95941758
>If you say GURPS has complex and difficult math
No one said that. You're hallucinating as well as stupid.

>>95913257
I will never not die laughing at the 10 foot laser pole

Requesting:
-agaist the dark yogi
-age of ambiton

More or less all the stuff

Thanks in Advance, pals

>>95941995
>It boils down to "I tried it and didn't care for it" and that's 100% legitimate and doesn't need to be expanded upon.
Yeah, and it's also a useless fucking comment for an Internet board about discussing RPGs.
>I like this game
>I don't
>that's totally heckin valid bro
Conversation ends there. What a sad state of affairs. This is where gutless sackless fauxbertarian cuck mindset gets you.

>>95937920
It's base system, without anything splats, is bland and generic in a way rivaled only by the SRD versions of Fuzion or BRP. Not a single piece of narrative meat to grab onto, and written in a cold academic style you need to be a truly autistic robot to appreciate.
As a build your own system toolkit instead of a complete game on its own, if I want to do anything but more D&D slop with GDF, I need to scour through multiple books and pick-and-choose bits a pieces. The genre-specific setting books aren't everything you need to run the games.
Internal roll low bell curves are just bad math.
>No more complex than Pathfinder1E
You mean a game whose biggest criticism is how it's needlessly complex and bloated to a point of near unusability?
>Or better yet, what is there to hate?
(You)
Beyond it being a suboptimal choice for nearly anything you want to do with it is that once you start playing it you're associated with kid touchers, moralizing douche nuggets, and the most up your own asshole cunts on the internet.

>>95942413
>Internal roll low bell curves are just bad math.
Que

>>95942382
You don't need to justify enjoying or disliking anything, anon. It's a preference, simple as.
>Useless for a board discussing RPGs
A board discussing RPGs is useless in the first place. 4chan is ESPECIALLY useless because it isn't about rule clarification, sharing solutions to encountered problems, and other beneficial topics. It's just faggots saying everyone else is a faggots while furries post porn and 40k fans beat off to hypotheticals and lore.

>>95942228
It's a hypothetical to get my point across that not every defense of GURPS is taste vs taste, anon. Though I bet if he (Or is that you?) were to dig into the actual details I would find a couple pretty similar things.

>>95942413
You're clearly just trying to bait, but the core books just aren't 'devoid of narrative meat'. They aren't trying to tickle your balls by inserting near-future cyberpunk street slang into every sentence or written from the perspective of a zombie pirate or whatever it is you need to get off, but they aren't 'cold' by any means either. And if you mean they're lacking a setting, yeah maybe, a good ten percent of the book seems dedicated to giving GM's tools to build whatever setting they want. I know GURPS has a few of its own settings, but I've never ran them or even read into them because there's been absolutely no need.

>Internal roll low bell curves are just bad math.
What

>>95943806
None of us need to do anything anon, but the purpose of the board is discussion. Discussion is a wide concept, and sometimes it involves disagreement, and that can involve argument, constructive or otherwise- unless you're a fag who's scared of that sort of thing anyway. Being asked 'why do you feel that way' isn't actually tantamount to being sodomized.

>>95937735

Actually, we can accept that you don't like it, but we also think you probably have shitty taste.

>>95945861
>Being asked 'why do you feel that way' isn't tantamount to being sodomized

The reason people don't like GURPS has been laid out hundreds of times, same with D&D. Nobody wants you to quantify why you don't like D&D, but GURPS fags wants you to spell shit out every god damn time. The issues are known and they are just being faggots.

>>95945861
>You're clearly just trying to bait
No, if I were trying to bait I would hammer even harder on your game's fanbase being the most hypersensitive criticism adverse losers on a board dedicated to losers who waste their lives playing games.
>Narrative Meat
Fallacy of Extremes. Just because I want more than a text book doesn't mean I want CyBorg levels of lore glazing.
>What
When you're rolling a normal distribution against a fixed target number, even with difficulty modifiers, there is a level of attribute score+skill bonus where it goes from always losing to always winning.
There is no drama at that point, just a feeling of hope I don't roll boxcars

>>95945879
Considering the flocking of GURPSfags to insert GURPS into discussions where GURPS was ruled out as being a topic and the general whining that people just don't get it/haven't tried it enough, I really doubt the majority of GURPSfags can truly accept it. Being a former lurker in /gurpsgen/, too, the fact that any player not liking the retarded shit the game does grants a comment of "your players are shit," also really adds to this.
>>95945861
I genuinely don't get why you feel that I owe you a poignant explanation of why I dislike GURPS in 1000 words or less. I don't know you, I have likely never met you outside of this very board, etc. Between that and the character limit, I literally don't feel it's worth the effort.

>>95946417
>flocking of GURPSfags to insert GURPS into discussions where GURPS was ruled out as being a topic
NTA but I do that because it's funny

>>95945861
>It's a hypothetical
Bullshit. The topic was the specific conversation you had just had to which you said, "I genuinely don't view it as [personal taste]". The subject was not complaints about GURPS in general, but a specific anon's complaints about GURPS in this thread. None of which matched your straw man.
Fuck off you lying cunt.

>>95943806
>A board discussing RPGs is useless in the first place.
Okay then why are you here? lol
I've gotten plenty of insight and enrichment of my TTRPG experiences from discussing them on this board over the years.

>>95946417
>Considering the flocking of GURPSfags to insert GURPS into discussions where GURPS was ruled out as being a topic
If they didn't want to hear about GURPS they wouldn't put it in the first post, where GURPfags will obviously find it because they search the catalog for GURPS every day.
Just don't add "nooo GURPS noo I don't wanna hear about GURPS!!!" to your post and they won't find it.

>>95952228
I'm here to shitpost and enjoy the lulz.
If you expect anything different then you are a retard.

>>95913195
kek

>>95924570
>I would argue that the writers have no real understanding of the pulp genre, or are fucking retards who can't implement game mechanics to support genre assumptions
Expound on this, please.

>>95953542
>>95946434
kek based

>>95946434
Chad.

>>95953474
It's damned if you do, damned if you don't. Rule out GURPS in the OP, they come in and tell you why your wrong. Don't rule it out in the OP, they come in and suggest GURPS, and then argue you with when you say "I don't want to use GURPS."

>>95946417
GURPSfags in shambles.

>>95942331
wrong thread

>>95913069 (OP)
Heard good things about Powered by the Apocalypse.

>>95941964
Great advice.

>>95913069 (OP)
Rifts

>>95914913
Rifts is the best setting and a completely fine system that reddit fags hated in for 4 years and it stuck.

>>95972677
At the end of the day, it's still just heavily houseruled D&Dogshit (by admission of Siembieda himself), so there's a firm upper limit on how good it can be.

>>95972677
Kitchen sinks are never "the best" anything, mechanically, narratively, or otherwise.

>>95974847
Its woven pretty well
What part of tbe kitchen sink do you think is poorly done? (Other than Australia book which is straight dog shit)

>>95913069 (OP)
The Eden system
All flesh must be eaten is an excellent core book

>>95975120
Any jack of all trades will be a master in none

>>95975700
What game(s) is the master of a setting?

>>95975917
Not him but Harnmaster.

>>95975973
Cant disagree cause i havent read it let alone play it.

>>95975700
that doesn't follow...

>>95975700
Is there a sci-fi post apocalypse game with magic, that ties in cleanly with a fantasy setting, a cape shit setting, and others with a functional mythos other than RIFTS?
Its prime gods (old ones) touch all settings and era's, its dimensional functions allow for a justification for setting jumping, lore based reasons for most things working...
Honestly rifts/palladium is a complete thesis for a multiverse, Ive never seen a better example.
90% of the hate RIFTS gets is based on what people have read about rifts from forum posts that are regurgitated from people reading forum posts ad infium from sites and forums that likely don't exist anymore. If quizzed people either just call you names or web search an argument made previously that is either a non issue, misunderstanding, or fixed years ago.

What other system is still making books from 1990 to now that are compatible? You dont have to buy them all, but there is such a deep reservoir to pull from that what ever you are interested in likely it exists, and someone else at the table can find a diametrically opposed intrest and you both can sit at a table and function together.

Honestly I can keep going but it breaks down to most complaints are generational internet stories, propagated by people who at the time were dnd purists that you would hate their opinion on everything else if you read them now.

>>95977986
It's horrible mechanically though. The setting has its charm, but the game is a clunky piece of shit.

It's not really generic, either. Yeah, it has post apoc, and mutants, and crazy tech, and magic, and monsters, but it's all gonna feel like rifts. Which, if you want rifts, is fine, but it isn't the same thing as a BRP or a Fudge.

>>95913069 (OP)
Sounds like Savage Worlds

>>95913675
>>95913997
Savage Worlds is good for cinematic, pulpy games.
Ignore the troll. He failed to understand how the wound system works.

>>95921428
I'm not going to break down every point you've posted, Anon. I'm sorry you had a bad experience.
I wish I could sit you down at my table. We could play Savage Star Wars, or Savage Flash Gordon or something similar, and I'd show you the value of things like "Brave" etc.
Wounds and Soaking is arguable the most confusing aspect of the system, but once you have it in your brain, you have it.
How much damage was done? Take that number and divide it by 4. That's how many wounds is going at the other character. They need to soak all of those wounds. They spend a Benny and roll to soak. 47 damage = 9 wounds. Subtract toughness. Character rolls Vigor and hopes for exploding dice, because 9 wounds is a lot. If they take more than 4 wounds, they're dead.
So you can see it's not like 5e. It's "swingy". It's viscous. Things can really go your way, until they don't. That's the beauty of gaming. We can choose the systems that work the way we want.

>>95913675
>>95914274
Second.
Savage Worlds is versatile enough that you can use it for any genre or setting.

>>95980055
I think another point that people fail to realize is that player characters are likely to succeed, especially at the things they are specced for, and that is a feature and not a big. Those +2's schizoanon was complaining about aren't to make success more likely, they're to make getting a raise more likely.
I'm finding I have to write scenarios a little differently with this in mind, but it's a lot of fun. Even starter characters are very competent. Almost like they are supposed to be like, larger than life pulp characters or something! Crazy!

>>95975700
>the saying that finishes with "Better than a master of One"
Anon...

>>95978874
Its not that clunky once play actually starts, ill grant is disjointed in how its laid out and a modernized gm screen would go miles toward easing this.

But palladium system is universal, rifts, palladium, nightbane, tmnt, Heroes Unlimited...ect. all run on the same system that all work together with minimal tweeks to import and export content and characters.

>>95913397
The core (non deluxe edition) book for SWN is free, you can just download it.

>>95981089
>It's not clunky because I've been playing it for 20 years and have a binder's worth of houserules and shit.

It's not a good system, my dog. It's a ad&d heartbreaker that's had 3 decades of subsystems bolted on the top of it. I'm glad that you play it and like it, and this statement isn't a dog at you or your friends or the games you've played and the memories you've made. I see you, and you're valid. But rifts is a giant, terrible hunk of shit.

>>95913069 (OP)
prowlers and paragons

>>95913350
>telling OP to basically make what he wants himself
what the fuck do you think a generic system is nigga?

>>95984637
not making the system yourself, certainly.

>>95986259
kek. btfo.

>>95988488
yep, you were.

>>95988884
no, i meant you btfo him.

don't pretend to be me.

>>95984598
Why?

>>95940877
Unironically this.

>>95946024
TRVKE.

>>95913366
Based.

>>95977986
Underrated post.

>>95977986
>Is there a sci-fi post apocalypse game with magic, that ties in cleanly with a fantasy setting, a cape shit setting, and others with a functional mythos other than RIFTS?
I don't see how this is supposed to be different than usual multiverse settings e.g. GURPS Infinite Worlds, Torg Eternity, etc.

>>95937735
>t. hasn't read it and/or run/played it or just didn't play it correctly

>>95937735
The reality is that everyone that doesn't like GURPS is retarded, simple as that.
Your tastes are just objectively wrong.

>>95962334
All you have to do to solve this problem is to play GURPS! problem solved! This way you also won't fill the catalogue with questions about which system to play so it's win-win!

>>95939096
>just assume you haven't played it or tried any options
It's true, you're just spouting memes from /tg/, it's obvious you haven't tried it

>>96011933
This. It's amazing how easy it is to out tertiaries.

>>95913069 (OP)
One-Roll Engine.

>>96008923
In a word, depth.
The creation myth, gods, false gods elder gods, they tie multiple settings together.
Magic, even in settings with extremely low magic its discussed and shown how to get minorcastings to work, power matrix of postive, negative and null. The spells arent just combat spells, the multitude of types of casters and multiple functions of spell and styles of magic. Same with psionics
They dimensions and main settings that cross over and intertwine with explanations how and why.
The tech being subtly diffrent for diffrent galaxies, times, and dimensions. Again to many option (to the point of redicoulusness in parts).
The named npcs, factions and players being so much more than a stat block and a a paragraph blurb or two.
The forces of evil infecting all areas but leaving room for light and shadow to thrive.

I just love it bros

>>96008923
Infinit worlds is 220ish pages, centered on parallel earths and divergent histories its totally diffrent and great but its just Harry Turtledove (no shade) historonic musings.
Its very diffrent vibe too

Torg is well torg, its not bad but its limited in scope and power from what i remember from the 90s, its kinda smaller feel. More cyberpunk(y) through time and space.

>>95914721
Sounds like a great option.

GURPS is like Linux.
Only low IQ plebs don't like it.

>>96024327
Unironically this.

>>96024327
Gurps is like Linux is that no one cares that you use it, but it allows you to feel very superior for no reason.

>>96028287
>for no reason
Both filter blacks by virtue of their complexity.

>>96024327
Agreed.

>>96020132
not a bad suggestion actually

>>95913069 (OP)

Shame yoyr group is to woke for GURPS.
>Being a woman is a disadvantage
>Rules based character creation racism

Seriously though, the problem isn't GURPS, the problem is that the other generic systems are straight garbage. Why is there no competition?

>>95979977
>>95979503
Wrong. Nothing was misunderstood about the wounds system. The game simply fails to explain edge cases and as a result Savage Worlds shills tried to discredit those posts as not understanding the system in general, simply due to someone interrogatinf the badly written rules text. That's not an argument, and you're being called out on your disingenuous bullshit right now.

>>95980737
>Those +2's schizoanon was complaining about aren't to make success more likely, they're to make getting a raise more likely.
So why even bother rolling for success if you're going to have a 99 percent chance of passing? Rolling the dice just to wank yourself off? Pathetic.

>>95940877
>>95934903
>>95927523
Savage Worlds was already refuted as a possible choice for OP here:
>>95921673
>>95921611
>>95921428
>>95921371
>>95913997

>>96008923
No response?

>>95913069 (OP)
Sounds like what you want is Savage Worlds.

Savage Worlds, more like Savage Stinky Poopoos

>>95913069 (OP)
Savage worlds would be a good fit, it has a few different post apoc settings and it does pulp very well.

I wanted to argue about GURPS but savage worlds anon won the shitposting war :(

>>96042276
Sad! Many such cases.

>>95913069 (OP)
Probably Savage Worlds? There is a setting called "The After" that hits a lot of the points you're looking for.

>>96042276

He had a goated run for sure

Mutant Year Zero? Not generic but uses the Year Zero engine which is also the basis for other Free League releases.

>>96046849

Same poster as above. Other options could be Ultramodern and its associated settings (there are several), Everywhen (generic version of BoL), and Aftermath (older, not generic but excellent).

>>96047005
Same poster as above two posts - additional settings keep coming to mind.

Fallout TTRPG uses the same Modiphius 2d20 system as other games from the publisher including Dune, Dreams and Machines, and John Carter of Mars.

>>95913069 (OP)
Mutants and Masterminds for higher powered, Basic Roleplay for more grounded games. Rolemaster for esoteric madness.

>>95913069 (OP)
Have you looked at Savage Worlds? Seems like the best fit, I've run pulpy post apoc in it before.

>>95946042
>There is no drama at that point, just a feeling of hope I don't roll boxcars
Yeah that can happen in a lot of systems and the answer is always the same: STOP ROLLING FOR SHIT YOU'RE GUARANTEED TO SUCCEED BARRING CRITFAILS.

>>96052572
More people need to understand this.

>>96052572
Yeah, I couldn't tell you the number of times I've seen something like "Make a Master Athletics check to climb the 3-foot stepladder under ideal conditions".

>>96024327
GURPS is far superior to Linux because it actually works well, is competently designed, adaptable in a practical way, and aside from spergs on this board, its community isn't a toxic cesspool of bitter communist faggots. Steve Jackson may be a fucking retard in the modern day, but GURPS is still great if you need a modular toolkit to build your own RPG. Linux will never be good because of the culture around Open Sores.

>>96061478
>its community isn't a toxic cesspool of bitter communist faggots
Everyone I've encountered outside of this board who plays GURPS is a communist faggot.

>>96061528
Really? That seems odd. My experience has been the opposite, with a single exception. Not that I give too much of a fuck about general culture war sperging, but relative to most other mainstream RPGs, GURPS is fairly "chud-coded." The Basic Set has several depictions of non-white people doing bad things (drug dealing and shoplifting), which would be unthinkable now. It could be I've missed something in newer releases, but GURPS stuff is generally free of retarded pearl clutching, land acknowledgments, "safety tools," and other extremely retarded shit, although I wouldn't be too surprised if that makes an appearance at some point. People who I've played GURPS with are generally older Millennials and Gen-Xers who aren't really tuned into any of that shit and either avoid it or actively despise it.

>>96028287
>no one cares that you use it
both are infinite seethe generators

>>95913069 (OP)
>Not including GURPS (which my group doesn't like)
I'm gonna be honest. If you don't like GURPS, you're better off just not using rules. I see a lot of retards posting about Genesys and other dumb games scrolling through quickly. They should all just be playing without rules.
If you want rules, GURPS is simply the best there is. If you don't like GURPS, you probably don't like rules, and should just get rid of them.
That's all assuming you want a generic system of course, there are specific systems that work better for their given setting and playstyle. I don't know any for post-apocalyptic games because I have no interest in that 'setting'.

>>95946417
>flocking of GURPSfags to insert GURPS into discussions where GURPS was ruled out
It's two reasons, one is >>95946434 and the other is it's like seeing the question
>How do I make this screw sit flush with the board? And please don't answer 'a screwdriver', I don't like them.
Like it or not, a screwdriver is still the correct answer; all alternatives are inferior in such a significant way that it's better to just get over your dislike of screwdrivers. Same goes for GURPS and people seeking a generic system.

>>96062096
All this, but unironically.

>>96062115
Sometimes you can use a drill.

>>95937735
>recommends SR5E when OP already ruled out GURPS
I don't dislike SR5E, but if OP's group can't grok GURPS, I don't think a hack of Shadowrun is going to be much better.
Kudos for the rec, tho. It would be funny if OP actually tried it. There aren't enough Shadowrun players in the world. It's my second-most shilled game (after GURPS), and the second-most controversial game in my friend group (after GURPS).

>>96068536
>There aren't enough Shadowrun players in the world. It's my second-most shilled game (after GURPS),
Why?

>>96068558
NTA but I love SR's style and the crunchiness allows for you to feel clever making things, while the setting allows for things to still be dealt with in a challenging matter regardless of party composition. I would only ever recommend 4th edition though personally.

>>95939545
>every time you describe your own feelings on GURPS it sounds like something that applies more or less the same to every other system I've ever experienced
I get this same impression every time I hear people say why they don't like GURPS. There are a hundred and one things I don't like about GURPS and only GURPS. (Most of it is hyperspecific nitpicks that can be easily remedied with an optional rule or house rule.) But outside of /gurpsgen/, I rarely hear criticisms that don't apply to almost every other RPG I've tried.

EABA by BTRC. Show Greg Porter some love and go buy his game. It's pretty cool.

If you can find a copy of it, BTRC's older generic system CORPS is also very good.

>>96068937
This

>>96068937
Same.