Basic premise is that the party are asked to enter a dungeon containing the tomb of a buried knight of a holy order. The knight was buried with a magical stone which the town in question is needing to maintain their protective ward. The party already has a good relationship with the town and are willing to help. They're promised rewards as well as whatever they can take from the tomb.

There's a few nasty twists about the nature of this stone. However, I'm mostly brainstorming a few riddle/puzzles. Let me know your favorite.

Riddle: "I can be a door or a box,
Where treasures hide and light unlocks.
Arrange the gems, and you might find,
The way to me, if you don’t mind.
I’m not closed, and I don’t shut,
I let the world in—what am I, but...?"

Puzzle: The door has gemstone buttons inlaid into the frame. There's an opal, emerald, pearl, ruby, natrolite, and jade button. The players will freely identify each gem. The solution is to press opal, pearl, emerald, and natrolite (O-P-E-N). Attempts to pry out the gems will result in terrible magical consequences.

Riddle two: “When sun meets blade, the path is shown.
Speak my name, and not alone.
For honor guards what light has sown.”

Puzzle, the door has several names etched into the frame. The party has the name of the buried knight. Solution: If they all speak his name, the door opens.

>>95925529 (OP)
Riddle three:
“Three must cross the waters wide,
But only one may at a time ride.
The beast will bite, the kid will feed,
So leave them not to do their deed.

Take care with choice, take care with track,
Or you’ll return with none to bring back. Think well, be sly, or you shall see
One eaten, one lost, none free."

On the wall is a diagram of a river and a boat. There are three buttons: a goat, a wolf, and a cabbage. There is also a button representing you, in the boat which you also press. You can only take one item with you, but you can press the button moving yourself without having to take any items. These buttons are lit up in ethereal green runes. On the opposite side of the river are identical three runes. If they press a rune it shows up on the other side. They must somehow move the runes from one side to the other without leaving a pair that will consume eachother (wolf kills goat, goat eats cabbage).

The solution: Move goat first (leaves wolf+cabbage)->move back alone->bring the wolf with you to the side with the goat but bring back the goat->bring the cabbage to the wolf-> come back alone-> Finally bring the goat back across

>>95925529 (OP)
How many sessions do you want your party to spend in this dungeon? What system are you using?

riddles are session poison. nobody appreciates riddles. they drug your players into a fugue state that will cause them to return to town and flirt with the barmaid.

I would hesitate to put one riddle into a dungeon. I would never, in 1,000 years of GMing, put THREE RIDDLES into a dungeon.

>>95925772
It's a small dungeon (only a few rooms). System agnostic right now.

>>95925826
I'm asking which of the three you think would be more fun to solve...

>>95925529 (OP)
Probably the second. It seems the simplest, and can serve as a gauge to whether the party can actually be expected to enjoy puzzles or riddle solving. That said, expect people to fumble even the most telegraphed puzzle, just because their mind is not in the same headspace as you.

Generally, I would recommend making certain there are alternative solutions instead of a strict 'riddle-to-open-door'. Players can not only fumble the bag, but hyperfixate on the problem until they get it or session ends.

>>95925847
>I'm asking which of the three you think would be more fun to solve...
I would toss them all.
>#1: buttons in fantasy settings are awful
>#2: the format is better but your party has a 0% chance of getting it
>#3: see #1

Whatever your riddle is, make it short, make it mystical, and make the party speak the answer aloud like in lotr.
Whenever intellectual challenges come up in ttrpgs, it's always just one or two players who actually work to solve it and everyone else just gets bored. Make it easy and atmospheric. Don't try to trip up your players ("everyone must answer") - you will succeed, and that's a bad thing.

>>95925529 (OP)
>delian tomb, but
Okay

>>95925529 (OP)
First one is a little convoluted. You could change the verses so the penultimate rhymes with "open", to make it easier for them to figure out that O-P-E-N is the answer.

Second is clear enough, shouldn't stump the players.

The third is a classic, so I have nothing to say about the difficulty; on the other hand, it seems very out of theme to have this particular riddle in a knight's tomb.

One other thing to keep in mind: don't make the progress of the session depend on a riddle. If you're gonna put riddles in a dungeon, make sure it's all about extra treasure and not the quest itself.

>>95925529 (OP)
>>95927407
One other thing about the first riddle,
>Attempts to pry out the gems will result in terrible magical consequences.

I'd remove that as well. Since the progress of the session doesn't depend on the riddle, let them take the gems, but lose something more valuable they could have gotten by solving it.

>>95925529 (OP)
If they needed the stone why did they bury it with the guy
What have they been doing in the interim decades/centuries to not be murdered


>>95925530
This is awful. Never use this in a game.
Everyone fucking knows this, it’s got nothing to do with the dungeon or anything else and you only put it in because you were being lazy. Riddles suck at the best of times, and this isn’t even a riddle it’s a grade 4 logic puzzle. Being as uninspired as this is fun for no one.

>>95925529 (OP)
I don't see how the first riddle communicates anything about pressing the gems in a way that spells open. It's obviously a door to be opened, and arranging gems is mentioned, but I don't think it gives any clues about using the names of the gems for an acronym.
You could use the first puzzle with a different riddle that hints at this better, or use the other two mostly as-is (though I don't see the relevance in the second riddle of the sun meeting the blade, maybe you could work something into the puzzle using that visual/concept).

>>95925529 (OP)
OP, this is the wrong place to ask this question. /tg/ is full of mindless faggots lose their shit every time someone asks them to think for more than 1 second. With below 60 IQ takes like, "why should I think if my character is the one with high INT?".
So, if your players are mindless vegetables like the typical /tg/uy(I highly doubt it), you should avoid putting any riddles in your games .
Otherwise, riddles could be fun. I've played games with puzzles as both a GM and a player, and everything went fine.
That said, the first puzzle is fine, but no one wants to push buttons in the dungeon. Make it more physical, like putting different colored dice in holes in a piece of cardboard.
The second one is okay if you want a fast and simple riddle.
The third one should be thrown in the garbage dump. Why would a knight's tomb have puzzles about goats? Also, if your players like riddles, they've probably heard this one since it's fairly famous.

>>95930558
>>95927946
>>95929932
>>95927407
>>95925955
I appreciate the insights!

>>95927434
Good point.

I suppose I should keep the riddle super short. Sounds like the second one is the winner. I'll focus more on maybe adding a fun puzzle. Anyone have a favorite puzzle??

>>95930558
>why should I think if my character is the one with high INT?"
This is objectively correct, though. If a character has a high enough INT score, it shouldn't be any different than someone rolling to push a rock.

>>95931888
Surely there's some middle ground here between "player" skill and "character" ability, no? Or are you saying a character with high int should roll and have the answer to the riddle offered to them?

Probably a mix of that, no?

>>95925529 (OP)
I am of the opinion that riddles suck, and puzzles should be more straight forward.
examples might be swinging blade traps, you can roll dexterity to pass by them, and naturally you can find a way to jam it for other less dexteritous party members to cross. a huge pit with spikes laden the bottom, the party simply bridges the gap or completes a constitution roll to bound across. or maybe zombies or skeletons keep reanimating and the solution is to smash whatever object is doing it, all the while they will be affronted by the undead who dont go down for long.

>>95931888
dimwit detected
If you don't want to interact with the world and just roll the dice, then go play some board game dungeon crawler.

>>95934196
Okay Anon, next time you roll to pick a lock, you're going to need to provide mechanical knowledge and an real life example on your ability to do so as proof.

>>95934249
I can pick locks, so joke's on you
But even if I couldn't, it's because I didn't get to learn this skill.
If you think that thinking is a skill you need to learn, then you just proved yourself to be a brainless vegetable.
I guess if there's a fight and it's your turn, you just sit there motionless. When someone eventually asks you to hurry up and take your turn, you'll just say, "Durr, I don't know. I'm not a fighter; my character is. He should know who to attack and how to position himself, not me."

There should be a room with an evil skeleton who says swear words and has a key in his ribcage but he'll punch you with his magical ability "evil punch" if you try to take it

>>95934290
Except characters do know how to fight. The proof is that they have combat abilities. Your analogy actually works against your argument, Anon, because the purpose of the INT stat is to represent a character's intelligence, meaning their character is going to be smarter than literally anyone who plays the game is it's the character's highest stat.

>>95935146
>This is objectively correct, though.

>Don't rely too heavily on your character's Intelligence score; you must provide your character with the creativity and energy he supposedly possesses!

>Intelligence measures mental acuity, accuracy of recall, and the ability to reason.

Next time read the rules BEFORE you decide to opine on what you assume they are.

>>95925529 (OP)
You stole the OPEN riddle from a reddit thread.

>>95935304
>Mental reasoning, also known as logical reasoning or mental ability, is the capacity to think, understand, and solve problems using logical thinking and analysis. It involves making inferences, drawing conclusions, and forming judgments based on available information and principles.
Words have meaning.

>>95935614
And games have rules, dipshit. Try reading them instead of making up what you think they should be because you're lazy.

>>95935642
Except you supposedly just quoted the rules that says INT represents reasoning. Maybe try taking your own advice.

>>95935672
In response to:
>why should I think if my character is the one with high INT?
You stated:
>This is objectively correct, though
Your random definition of "mental reasoning" does not defend your false claim. It is a red herring.

INT can be rolled for reasoning checks. Which are a subset of thinking tasks in which conclusions are drawn from premises. It is not a proxy for all thinking. It is a specific, skilled task.

Your red herring is meaningless and you're a dipshit.

>>95935700
Here's how a reasoning check works:
>DM can I figure out whether Socrates is mortal?
>Based on what?
>Well, if I know that Socrates is a man, and all men are mortal, can I make an Int check to figure out whether Socrates is mortal?

The only time a GM wouldn't allow you to make that roll is when he's too busy laughing at you.

Yes: Int can be rolled for reasoning tasks.

>>95935146
Anon, please read what I wrote.
>My character has a high INT, so he should be the one to solve the riddles, not me.
Okay, then:
>Except characters do know how to fight.
Therefore, the characters, not you, the player, should make combat decisions. He should decide what weapon to use, which enemy to strike, where to move, and what maneuver to use.
As with the riddles, you, the player, should only roll.
If you agree, tell me.
Why are you even playing an RPG if you're only there to roll the dice?
What is the difference, from a GM's perspective, between you, the player, and a random number generator or some other machine that rolls dice?

>>95935790
I'm playing a TTRPG to delve dungeons, get loot, and avoid death to the best of my abilities where my strategy and tactics are dictated by a dice roll, but modified based on where I choose to implement my stats/abilities to specialize in a particular set of skills, which is important due to TTRPGs being a team oriented game, where other character's specialized skills can help shore up your personal downfalls.

So yeah, the high INT character should be able to solve the riddle with a dice roll the same way a Rogue should solve sneaking with a DEX roll, and a Barbarian can solve a physical obstacle with a STR roll. Not specializing in these things should then require alternative/creative methods by the players to figure out on their own accord.

>>95936322
>"you come across a really hard riddle!"
>"My character tries to solve the riddle. I rolled a 26"
>"You solve the riddle successfully! The door opens!"
sounds like a shitty game. also sounds like you don't actually have any games

>>95936373
>"you come across a really challanging rock wall!"
>"My character tries to climb the rock wall. I rolled a 26."
>"You climbed the rock wall successfully! You are now on top!"
How is this any different?

>>95936549
Because the game has rules and isn't based on your "common sense" redifinition of what you are pretending those rules "should" be.

>>95936549
The difference is that RPGs are a social and intellectual activity.
Not physical one.
If the RPGs revolved around hiking and climbing, you bet your ass I would be climbing and pushing those rocks.
But I guess when you play tennis, you'll just stand in the middle of the court saying "Nuh-uh! My tennis racket has great stats, so why do I need to hit the ball?"

>>95936549
I don't care to explain it. rest assured that if you handwave things like dialogue and riddles, your players will start "having things come up at the last minute" and begin to miss your sessions

>>95936549
Not those anons, it's not different and they will argue with you about it. Realistically one should ask can their character actually solve a riddle.

>>95936701
unless you resolve combat challenges with a single roll,
>roll your Fight skill. You won the fight!
you shouldn't resolve intellectual challenges with a single roll either.

Intellect can be rolled against to recall facts and lore, or to gain cultural insights on something specific.
>"Does my character recall the Elvish word for 'Friend'?"

>>95936632
I have never seen a "riddle" implemented that didn't immediately cause a table wide eye roll.

>>95936784
Riddles are literal trivia with a bit of problem solving. There is no reason why they have to be held to some retarded exceptional standard any other skill challange would.

>>95936784
Please cite the page number in the book about "solving riddles." I can absolutely give you the rules on combat, though.

>>95936549
NTA, but if you really think riddles aught to be like that in games, its a great argument to never, ever have a riddle included in a dungeon, ever.

>>95936863
Why would you assume that when there is a chance a character won't be able to solve it with the die roll? On a failure, the group now are tasked to find an alternative means of entry, or a possible clue to help them solve it themselves. You know, like ANY OTHER skill challange that exists.

>>95936805
do you treat other intellectual challenges this way?
>"the duke is hiding something. I roll to investigate him"
>"you succeed! he murdered his housekeeper because she witnessed him performing black magic."
because that's no way to run a game

>>95936784
roll multiple times, make a decision once or twice, apply any relevant modifiers and see if you pulled it off.
>>95936860
NTA, 4e has skill challenges, and there's an additional free PDF for 5e that brings them back

>>95936863
NTA, but you can have riddles in a dungeon with die rolls and the DM narrating relevant things as characters resolve them; just like combat. I think what might suit you with this, would be kicking off a riddle from the entrance of the dungeon, and continuing to expound upon it as players delve through, almost as if the dungeon receives a narrative/lore as an extra dash of pizzazz

>>95937164
continued from here>>95938039for you; with such a scenario it would be something like this
>roll
>the duke is hiding something
>roll
>you notice something
>roll
>you realize the housekeeper is missing?
>press upon duke or continue exploring
>roll duke cracks under pressure admits he murdered housekeeper
>or roll you find evidence of murder
>pair it with the missing housekeeper?
ect

the point being that the character, not the player, can fail to solve a riddle/convict the duke, ect