Races of the West Edition

Resources:
WFB: https://pastebin.com/qVGrgwwh
WM: https://pastebin.com/EsDAgeba
WFRP: https://pastebin.com/inbyBsR6
Novels: https://pastebin.com/PFqPDr0H
>Warhammer Chronicles:
https://files (dot) catbox (dot) moe/0xt777 (dot) zip
>Time of Legends:
https://files (dot) catbox (dot) moe/q46ut6 (dot) zip
>The End Times:
https://files (dot) catbox (dot) moe/j7d0t5 (dot) zip
>TOW:
https://gofile.io/d/fxFgXS
https://www.warhammer-community.com/the-old-world-downloads/
>Alternative Models:
https://pastebin.com/xPeM9szL

>Previous Thread: >>95922639

>TQ: What are your opinions on the new matched play guide rules, objectives and scenarios?

So when's Kislev?

>>95927672
Either one year away or 2 years away.

>>95927672
I've been working on some right now actually

How real is the faq/Errata?

>>95927684
It is confirmed more or less at this poijt. To be released within the next 2 weeks.

>>95927679
>Not a single gay blowjob or stolen toilet
What AU is this?

>>95927646 (OP)
>TQ
I like Secondary objectives, which also provide excuses for nice Hobby projects like making a baggage Train or weird terrain. Secret objectives aren't very interesting, and I don't think they matter too much.
The new scenarios are fine.

>>95927697
>/pol/tard exposes himself that quickly

>>95927679
you need a prigozhin miniature as HQ

>Cathay sold out, confirmed as success
>the pendulum will now only continue to tip further towards TOW and away from AoS
>the legacy factions will rejoin us and escape from AoS
>resculpts of existing TOW factions will start incoming
The most important questions, I think, are:
1) How do we resist being turned into the kind of GW product farm that Warhammer 40,000 and Age of Sigmar exist as?
2) Do we even want Cathayan-tier resculpts of existing core factions like Empire, Tomb Kings, etc.? Prices would almost certainly rise if we got them.
3) What should be done with the AoS playerbase? Can they be accepted into TOW gaming groups, or should merely having played AoS be a barrier to joining TOW?

>>95927726
>Cathay sold out
Only in the US, with the exception of the Dice and AJ, nothing is sold out anywhere else

Is mono-goblin viable? Regular goblins or forest, not night-goblin. Trolls, giants and ogre mercs too I guess

Do all chaos dragons have two heads?

>>95927734
>implying any other country fucking matters
cute

>>95927761
Does the warpfire dragon?

>>95927761
Not necessarily, but they do have two breath weapons and have been depicted with two heads consistently.

>>95927761
By the rules the chaos dragon you can ride does, yeah, although apart from the actual "two-headed" rule it just mentions "twin maws". By the fiction no, they can have more or less heads.

>jade empire gate master is WS7
I DREAM
OF BETTER DAYS

>>95927726
>3) What should be done with the AoS playerbase?
We need to start identifying AoS players right now and logging their data on a system. This information can be used in the future once AoS has been discontinued. Former AoS players will be forced to wear armbands which signals to others that they played AoS. Initially, wearing such an armband will prohibit AoS players from entering Warhammer shops or ever interacting with members of the Warhammer community. However as discontent among the AoS community grows more punitive measures will have to be taken. AoS players will then be relocated to different neighbourhoods, which is to be exclusively populated by AoS players. Said neighbourhoods will be on permanent lockdown with no permission safe for extreme circumstances. At this point these former AoS players will not only be able banned from interacting with the Warhammer community but society as a whole. Laws will be enacted that explicitly forbid platonic and romantic relations between AoS players and citizens as a whole (not just Warhammer players). The upkeep of these containment zones will no doubt be expensive so at some point in the future a plan must be created to finally answer and settle "the Age of Sigmar question".

Why are chaos knights molded in 10 pieces? Is this the glory of multi-pose models?

>>95927780
It must have taken so much moral courage to write this post. I applaud you for not avoiding weakness.

>>95927776
I remember when S4 meant AP1 and S5 meant AP2. Better times! Now my chaos warriors only get AP when they use their hand weapons...

>>95927792
Which ones? Regardless, yes, plastic miniatures have tended to be overcomplicated since 7th edition. The metal 5th ed knights are cooler anyway.

Worked on some chaos dwarfs based on mantic kits that I got after I sent a complaint to them about a possible issue with the mould. I don't like working with green stuff, feel like my fingers are too sausage-shaped for it, but beards are pretty forgiving to sculpt.

>>95927776
GODS, THEY WERE STRONG THEN!

Least they got 4 wounds now.

My only concern is the more or less confirmation of double ranks fighting for infantry. I know the XBOX HUGE units of 8th was a massive detriment to the games health and I am worried this will happen with TOW.

Would this be the case? Would the double rank/step up rule bring TOW back to the hard entry point as 8th?

>>95927839

Big blocks of infantry (20-40 dudes) look great on the tabletop, rules should make wielding the viable. Armies should look like armies, not a bunch of flying monsters with some cheerleaders.

>>95927839
The 10 wide 4 deep units of 8th did not happen in a vacuum. Fighting in two ranks was not the sole cause of that particular shift in the meta. Steadfast requiring a frontage of 10 to be active is mostly to blame for that.

>>95927646 (OP)
Still not sold out. People are just buying the AJ just in case they have to play against a Cathay Army.

>>95927839
Oh yeah, and this. I may have gotten confused about Steadfast, actually.

>>95927859
20-40 is grand and is done even now. I am just worried it'll become obscene and require even more spending and weird arms races of 100+ minis required for a single unit.

>>95927860
Oh thank God. Steadfast hopefully is not returning according to leaks.

>>95927860
Yeah, although linehammer also rewards a big frontage.

The new matched play rules don’t allow multiple level 4 wizards, but a level 4 and 2 level 3s at 2,000 points should be kosher correct?

>>95927916
dont know. ask your opponent before the game.

>>95927817
What was the issue? Looks good but probably should've used the newer heads tbhon

>>95927930

That the models look good mainly from the front and the back, but sideways there are issues. I had those chaos warrior heads in my bits box so I decided to use them.

>>95927869
Fair enough, competitive players will always find ways to break the game and they should be used in that capacity, to figure out loopholes and then close them.

>>95927965
That's a pretty serious QC issue. Good that they gave you free shit.

How to handle a empire gunline as dwarves? Just had a very one-sided game where my opponents empire guns just blasted me before I got to him. There was one single combat the entire game... he used travel mystical pathway to avoid all combat
I don't want a gunline of my own nor do I want to cheese a longbeard deathstar with anvil and cart.

>>95928068
>dwarves
>getting outshot by empire
just like shoot him better.

>Raaroo!
Assembling some beasty boys, what are you anons working on?

>>95927672
confirmed for December.

>>95928112
tomb king chariots.

>>95927646 (OP)
I have now written 8300 characters of headcanon about cathay.

>>95928068
You don't. Despite what anons will say, shooting is still a very relevant and powerful part of the game and there really isn't much you can do besides use chaff as bullet catchers.

>>95928112
Some skelliemans are rising from their 28-year old tomb.

I actually like these quite a lot better than the later ones that are back now for TK. They're slimmer and overall just funnier. Shallow details though, so you need a steady hand to bring some stuff out. The feet are basically freehand, for one.

>>95928237
Shit, make that 38 years!

>>95927761
>"chaos" is known for uniformity and means that every dragon is exactly the same
lel

Is there a list of base sizes for various things in WHFB, specifically O&G?

>>95928327
newrecruit usually has base sizes listed next to everything

>>95927862
What? Anon, why the hell would someone buy an army book for an army they don't play? That's retarded!

>>95927862
not to cope or anything but randomly GW made a ton of stock for Cathay/ My LGS asked for 100 boxes of the space wolf army set and got 30, whilst for Cathay they got 100 batallions no problem.

Is there an imgur or something for the matched play changes?

>>95928380
They still need it to do their homework where they will inevitably face the One Guy who brings 6 Grand Cannons to a 2000 points tournament game along with a few lanterns.

>>95928397
So they weren't kidding when they said until supplies last.

>>95928400
its in the gofile in the OP post

>>95928112
Chaos Knights from the WoC battalion box. Kinda hate them, but I hated blood knights too. Maybe cav just isn’t for me.

>>95928435
Thanks anon

>>95927672
November 21st.

Why did GW have so little confidence in the old world?
It doesn’t even have an app.

>>95928504
It's on tencent myapp and baidu.

>>95928112
About to start cleaning up these shamans, one for my army and the other I'll use at some other point.

>>95928504
Old world builder is probably better than any app GW could have made.

>>95928504
They probably just assumed that the target audience doesn't know how to use modern technology.

>>95927761
the children of galrauch generally do, and some others too.

>>95927762
>the faction explicitly made as a cope for nonwhites is doing gangbusters in America
Checks out.

Long time player of 40k and now I'm finally done with the start of my warband "Brotherhood of the black sigil".
Really like the look of the army so far. Next step is 20 halberds and 10 chaos knights.

>>95928726
Looks rad my dude. It looks like they might have some your dudes lore and stories to them.

>>95928729
Thanks!
Yes me and my friend are building lore together with all of the battles.

My mage is the main guy, here's the story so far:
Saefrith Coldthorn is a creature forged by chaos itself — a master manipulator whose schemes have woven their way through the Old World for over 400 years. His tale reaches back more than four centuries, to a blasphemous ritual performed by a chaos cult under a purple-black aurora, when a daemon spirit was forced into the flesh of a vulnerable northwoman. From their unhallowed union, Saefrith was born — a child destined by Tzeentch to become a master strategist, a fateweaver who would slowly undermine the defenses of mankind. His piercing orange-black eyes glimmer with knowledge that cannot be contained by ordinary flesh. His mind — forged by chaos — is a labyrinth of schemes within schemes, a vast conspiracy that stretches across decades and continents.
Saefrith’s magic grew alongside his understanding of chaos’ grand design. His power lies not just in destruction, but in turning fate toward chaos’ eventual triumph. The Black Sigil — a relic forged by chaos — resonates in his grip, focusing his magic and allowing him to reach through space, time, and fate itself. Saefrith is not a warrior or a brute; he is the master strategist who moves the pieces on the board.

And here's the background to the champion:
Saefrith chose Throkkar Blackthorn to be his Lord of War — the chaos champion destined to conquer and destroy in Tzeentch’s name. Throkkar was a fallen knight, a warrior whose ambitions outstripped his loyalty to king or country. His family fell from grace when their lands were destroyed by famine, chaos creatures, and the cowardice of their liege lords. Throkkar turned inward, wrestling with resentment, shame, and growing rage.
Saefrith appeared to Throkkar in a dream-vision filled with purple-black flame, offering eternal power and a chance for retribution. Throkkar fell to his knees, swearing eternal loyalty. From that moment forward, Throkkar was forged into something more than human — a colossus armored in chaos-forged plate, his large rune-covered blade eager to drink the blood of his enemies. His heavy horned helm glows faintly with chaos magic, reflecting the raw power that drives him forward.
Throkkar Blackthorn is a commander, a butcher, a destroyer — the physical manifestation of Saefrith’s will. His soldiers follow him without question, honoring him as their Lord, a warrior destined for eternal glory. His greatest wish is to conquer Krugenheim and bring its people to their knees in a grand sacrifice to Tzeentch — a wish made possible by Saefrith’s careful guidance.

>>95928409
And why would they not just get a PDF of the rules online for free instead? Your entire premise is flawed, anon. We live in the information age!

>>95928726
Yeah those chaos warrior sculpts are imposing. Nice work anon, I’m doing up 5 handsome little guys and their skink riders to use as another unit of cold ones cavarly.

Question to the thread at large, what colour should the eyes be?
I want them to be dark orange like a cassowary but I think it wouldn’t look distinct at tabletop level due to similiar colouring, so I’m at bit of a loss.
Maybe green with slits?

And this is the background of the first battle versus Skaven:

Saefrith Coldthorn orchestrated the downfall of Krugenheim from the shadows — turning its defenses inward and fueling suspicion and paranoia. His magic opened clandestine pacts with Clan Vermson, the Skaven who dwell in the labyrinth beneath Krugenheim, adding their poison-tipped swords and warp-forged knowledge to the growing conspiracy. The Skaven struck first, spreading disease and chaos, thinning the defenses and sowing discord among the soldiers. Meanwhile, Throkkar Blackthorn prepared for the final assault — a siege destined to break the defenses, slay the soldiers, and enslave the survivors in service to chaos.
When Throkkar fell upon Krugenheim, a showdown was destined — a showdown made possible by Saefrith’s careful guidance. Throkkar Blackthorn’s soldiers, empowered by chaos magic, routed the town’s defenses in a matter of hours. The soldiers fell to poison-tipped warpweapons, chaos-twisting swords, and the magical blasts hurled by Saefrith.
Saefrith Coldthorn stood upon the ruins of the chapel, Black Sigil in hand, its magic swirling through him. The Brotherhood secured their domination, but the Skaven. Displeased with not getting the Black Sigil as promised, are now swiftly moving to get the coveted Sigil back from the Chaos warband.

>>95927734
The fact the playbook you need to run the faction sold out means there's already more players than GW expected. The fact that battalion sold out in the US (biggest market) is even better.

>>95928765
It's probably for them to have on hand in tournements. Some people still prefer that over a digital PDF on a tablet.

>>95928205
I'm now at 12200 characters

I need whatever weird question anyone might have about cathay to add even more details on perceived plot holes, but I think I have added enough to cover everything, from flying mountains, to magic to the warpstone meteor and some relations and cultural norms

>>95928205
Please never share it

>>95928305
Cringe as fuck some fag took the time to make this, and there is zero chance that anon lifts

I’m glad some people are able to write something for Cathay, but reading both the wiki and the arcane journal inspires nothing for me. At best I’d probably have to utilize chat gpt to make a story for me there.

>>95928726
> Long Time 40k playe-
Stop. Go back.
No L shaped walls here. No chapter approved seasonal faggotry.

>>95928898
Why? It's not like I'm heavily rewriting it, I'm just trying to rationalize things and connect the dots.

>>95928915
See >>95928898

>>95928908
I think Cathay suffer from Primarch syndrome. The fluff is centralised around the dragon children with minimal backdrop on the citizenry and regulars. Like Geurilla man and the ultramarines.

>>95928872
I'd like you to share it

is he right?

>>95928908

I thought of a decadent, elderly magistrate named Goa Tse Tung who commands his hosts to procure certain rare ingredients for ancient cathayan medicines from magical creatures of the old world to be used to restore his ailing virility.

>>95928918
That's not an answer, anon, why are you so adamantly against headcanon?

>>95927734
Maybe they gave the US a very small supply compared to Europe because in GW's mind, US players only play 40k. There's also that 10% tarriff.

>>95928965

Is this physique achievable natty??

>>95928965
Cathay right now is an incomplete army, considering that Cathay is still missing a bunch units like ranged infantry.

>>95928965
>literal retard thinks Cathay could do with a buff

I love this kit. The 5th ed chaos warriors really are the coolest, you can do so much with them. This little guy is going to be a forsaken!

>>95928965
hahahahahahaha
fuck me the cope

>>95928965
Yes he is. Cathay is currently lower mid-tier.

>>95927839
>know the XBOX HUGE units of 8th was a massive detriment to the games health
That was when the average box of infantry was sold as 10-16 models and you needed 30-40 for a unit. Not we have boxes selling 20 (elites) to 40 models. Perfect box sizes for bigger units.

>>95928934
It would take a while to share it, but I will share one part I shamelessly patted myself on the back for:

You know the element about the demons whispering promises to the dragon if he helps them get free by opening the chaos gate? What if the dragon had a reason to listen to them? Not out of foolishness, of course, weird entities from a different dimension might be new, so one might not immediately think they're that dangerous and deceiving, but he's an ancient dragon in a world that had its fair share of dangers, he wouldn't be a fool.
But the thing is he's not even at the top of the food chain anymore, the moment the old ones arrived they were a sudden potential threat, they wielded power beyond his comprehension at the time, and surely he must have considered the old ones going against him eventually, just as they did against other ancient races, for one reason or another.

What I'm leading to with this piece of headcanon is the idea that the dragon emperor considered what the demons had to say because he would get something in return, the knowledge to wield magic, which at the moment isn't really explained, it's just told he learned the magic of the old ones on his own, which I didn't really find satisfactory as an answer, not to the fine level he's reached.
So he listens to the demons, but he doesn't really fall for them, he goes to the northern portal and there he takes what he needs to learn the magic and begin to understand some parts of how the artifacts of the old ones worked.
He wouldn't be the cause of the collapse of the gate, he wouldn't be the one who let the demons out, he would ultimately not do much of what the demons actually wanted from him but he would do something, listen to some suggestions about magic, take some parts of the portal, weakening the gate that little bit more, which would one day compound with all the other direct and indirect causes for the final collapse of the gate and the great catastrophe.

>>95929163
So now there's an explanation on how he knows so much about magic
>tempted by demons and took something from the gate
he's got a reason for doing so
>he needed to know the old ones magic to be ready for a potential war against the old frogs
and he's got some pieces of the gate which could end up explaining the extraordinary machine of magical manipulation that is the great compass of of his own residence, which apparently taps into the geomantic web too

plus we add a small element of guilt for the collapse of the gate, which gives that extra push to explain how and why he might feel responsible and protective over humans, gives him another reason to go fight directly in front of the chaos gate at the climax of the catastrophe, and perhaps even an extra reason why chaos would attack his realm so vehemently and incessantly
>to reach the piece of the gate he has, which certainly holds great power, demons like to mess with those artifacts for their endgames
and we would have an extra way for demons to interact with him, by taunting him for what he's done, or by offering more sorcerous knowledge

>>95928965
You have jade shields, sword and board, or horsies.
Empire has skirmishers, crossbows, handgunners, spearmen, and miltia mobs on top of the three things Cathay has.
So he's correct. Auto take dragon waifu letting you buff two units of core isn't fixing this.

>>95929033
Good fap arm on him.

>>95928988
Sold out here in Canada too

The Cathay shill is just perryniggers new form based on the persistent mindless shitposting it's doing isn't it.

>>95929233
Is Perryfag in the room with us right now?

>>95929233
I honestly thought it was just ai generated

>>95929033
how do they look when you glue the head on top of the body rather than in front?

>>95929251
I think they look really bad if you do that.

>>95928965
You can take scouting skirmisher archers as empire core so yeah I guess. Knights are probably a little better than jade lancers.

>>95929233
rent free

>>95929374

The lancers can fight in extra rank, which is cool, but they don't hit as hard on the charge.

>>95929400
I wonder what is better, having like one more strength on the charge or having double the attacks

Caveat: you do definitely have worse magic item options in core than Cathay do. Cathay get I think 25pts on the jade warrior champion and 50pts on banners for both jade warriors and jade lancers, and 50pts on items for the jade lancer champion. They have a really nice magic item selection, maybe not beastmen tier but easily better than core or empire options.

So although I think a unit of drilled white wolf knights > a jade lancer unit, and skirmishing scouting archers > pretty much any 'regular' infantry choice in the game, it's worth noting the Cathayan can squeeze their anti-fly banner and terror-causing champion item on either unit, and the jade lancer champion can carry the bound spell plague of rust item too. That's way ahead of what empire can do with a unit of knights despite the units themselves actually being worse.

>>95929400
Mostly agreed this makes them worse, but they are actually better at grinding infantry they already beat because of this and their special rule. not that this is something you need to find units to do in TOW.

>>95929415
>taking "free enemy vps" on infantry

>>95929423
The flying standard is worth including. The unit can just be min sized and sit at the back.

Standards and champions are a great example of where TOW goes wrong too. SOVL is clearly including a full command in all your units. The rules generally encourage you not to do this. Unit command should be mandatory and free and should not mostly translate to an enemy VP reward.

>>95927817
looks like the GS might have been sticking to your tools by the way it's pulling out in some spots. if you haven't already, go to stainless steel dental tooks as your main shapers, and use something oil based (like vaseline or nivea cream, shit like that) as your lubricant. if someone tells you to use water on tools for sculpting putty, that person secretly hates you.

>>95927859
>Big blocks of infantry (20-40 dudes) look great on the tabletop, rules should make wielding the viable. Armies should look like armies.
anon, you might be playing the wrong warhammer fantasy game (for you). pic related might be more your speed.

WHFB was honestly a lot better as herohammer / monsterhammer. it plays to the strength of the scale: converting big, badass one-of-a-kind minis. factions should be getting more of that, not less.
a lot of players have amnesia around just how bad 7th and 8th fucking sucked. end times didn't happen in a vacuum. GW nuked the game because the preceding two editions were so shitty they'd driven 90% of the playerbase to quit WHFB and go to other games like confrontation and warmahordes. as this anon points out >>95927860 the rules that encouraged big infantry blocks were crap. they were pushed for no other reason than selling more boxes of the plastic multikits (since the margins on those were higher than for metals). and it started with 5-wide mins. horde rules were just that going completely mad.

>>95929447
Next thing you’re gonna ask for is free wargear

>>95929447
>caring about any of that gay shit

I take full command on my units that matter, I take musicians on units like my scouts where they are meant to die, they might get a champion as well but why would I give units who are worthless to my general a standard in his army?

>>95929447
That's an impressively retarded take, anon

>>95929447
The truth. Once command and flair become just another tool to powergame rather than a narrative device or because command is cool and units look better with them you get this bullshit.
I still include them in my units, because the units are simply incomplete without them in my eyes.

>>95929251
I like to do that

>>95929481
I mean jade warriors were made better than empire state troops in part because they just get either a shield or a halberd for free.

>>95929476
>factions should be getting more of that, not less.
literally how could we go harder into herohammer and monsterhammer than we already have. If not for brets and a soon-to-be-fixed poison interaction, that would be all you would see.

>>95929447
the solution is to make standards better, champions and muscians are reasonable as is

>>95929476
This, that TOW is like 5th or even 6th is a good thing generally. I want infantry to get a bit better but fuck me big boring blocks of the same shit is much gayer than uberheros. Nerf dragonlords fine but I'd rather it be more focused on the customizable Heros and cool shit than 100 man(rat) blocks of skaven shit ever again.

>>95929596
just hard cap all units in the game at 40 and make it so no unit can go wider than 10. Shrimple fix.

>>95929613
>>95929596
Ew. Fuck that. Go play mordheim or something, I bet you think this is a roleplaying game too.

>>95929613
Even 40 blocks pushes into the stupid territory (why yes high elf spears did fuck me in the past)
I think 20 to 30 should be optimal unless there is some negative like reduce maneuver or increased maneuver cost of movement. And it's still not as cool as the monsters, Heros, and skirmishing hbits we see now when people aren't spamming dragonshit.

>>95929622
Not my fault you can't enjoy a game without spamming 1 model 100x, prehaps warmaster is you're game. Where unironically big blocks are done pretty well.

>>95929622
Only the first two editions.
After that, the roleplay elements become increasingly irrelevant to WFB.

>>95929631
30 for units without horde, 40 for units with horde

>>95929233
The more likely scenario is that anti-perryfag fag is actually perryfag trying to reverse psychology people into supporting him

>>95929400
Do people take multiple ranks of cav? I thought MSU was the way to go with them assuming you're not intending to stack magic items and characters on them

>>95929684
usually, cav spears dont give you fight in two ranks when you charge. the jade lancer spears do while giving less strength and AP. so there is an argument for them to be played in two ranks.

>>95929702
Especially as a core units. 5x2 squads are going to be pretty hard hitting for a "tax" unit

>>95929684
I was going to use 2 ranks of 7 savage boar boyz in my army I was in the process of making, I assumed having less would leave them in danger of losing too many models from shooting before getting into combat

>>95929684

My experience with empire knights is that units of 5 get shot off the table without them being able to achieve anything.

>>95929747
I'm gonna be an asshole and do the Kings of War cavalry horde. 10 wide, 2 deep.
That's what, 41 attacks at full strength?

>>95929792
No, 21. Got it confused with something else.

>>95929752
I feel like 2 units of 7 is just gonna end up better surely?

>>95929613
The WHFB grog fears a max size unit cap, but it is a good idea.

>>95929808
Several units of 6, 3 wide. Just suicide missiles to sneak through gaps.

Really all ranks of cavalry should get to attack when they charge but then they should be restricted to frontage and have no charge bonuses in subsequent rounds of combat. Cavalry charges were only devastating if infantry broke: if they didn't the cav were usually in a terrible spot.

>>95929818
This would honestly be so strong if they got drilled, but RIP. Run them in a 3x2 marching column, reform into 6 wide frontage.

>>95929808
>>95929818
Wanted a big fat unit of savage big uns with a shaman and bsb in the unit, supported by 2 5x1 units of savage boar boarz since it's nomadic waaagh, you could probably say it would still be worth splitting it up but I just think a fat unit of big savages would look great on the table.

>>95929752
>>95929763
Right but I imagine the idea is that, vene though one unit that's half sized is more vulnerable to being killed before doing anything, they'll have to take 2 units out and potentially risk overkilling 1 or split the shooting between two and risk not killing either compared to one big unit they can just screen against or focus down.

>>95929820
So then cav should get a combat res bonus during a charge but not do as much damage as they do now?

>>95929836
Nomadic Waaagh! [1972 pts]

Characters [780 pts]
Black Orc Warboss [368 pts]
- Great weapon
- Full plate armour
- General
- Black Orc Boar Chariot [Hand weapons
- Great weapons + Standard bearer]
- Trollhide Trousers
- Enchanted Shield
- Dead 'Ard Armour
Orc Bigboss [191 pts]
- Cavalry spear
- Heavy armour
- Battle Standard Bearer [Waaagh! Banner]
- War Boar
- Trollhide Trousers
- Enchanted Shield

Orc Weirdnob [221 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Frenzy
- Level 4 Wizard
- Warpaint
- War Boar
- Lore Familiar
- Waaagh! Magic

Core Units [511 pts]
25 Goblin Wolf Rider Mob [367 pts]
- Shields
- Cavalry spears
- Light armour
- Reserve Move
- Ambushers
- Close Order
- Horde
- Full Command + War Banner on Standard
Black Orc Boar Chariot [144 pts]
- Great weapons
- 3+
- Standard bearer

Special Units [537 pts]
12 Orc Boar Boy Mob [307 pts]
- Cavalry spears
- Frenzy
- Shields
- Big 'Uns
- Warpaint
- Full Command + Banner of Butchery on Standard
5 Orc Boar Boy Mob [115 pts]
- Cavalry spears
- Frenzy
- Shields
- Warpaint
- Full Command
5 Orc Boar Boy Mob [115 pts]
- Cavalry spears
- Frenzy
- Shields
- Warpaint
- Full Command

Rare Units [144 pts]
Black Orc Boar Chariot [144 pts]
- Great weapons
- 3+
- Standard bearer

This was my list though it's still WiP it's roughly what I wanted to do, some things I refuse to do is have a monster in it (something on wyvern), has to have a BSB and has to be led by a black orc.

>>95929563
that's not so bad

>>95929233
No, it's a paid shill. That's how we know it's not him, there's no way perrytard could ever find employment, even as an astroturf spammer monkey.

>>95927726
>>resculpts of existing TOW factions will start incoming
I really hope that happens
>skeletons, chariots, hierotitan
>pegasi, pilgrims, grail knights
>he spearmen, archers, silver helms, (IoB griffin)
>dwarf warriors, thunderers, slayers, (unreleased steam tank)
>state troops, handguns, knightly orders
>centigors, minotaurs, beastchariots
>(remaster of 40k FW squiggoths for fantasy)
>(remaster of FW chaos mammoth and galrauch)

>>95930000
Dwarfs dont need a tank
They need an APC to carry longbeards in.

>>95928914
And why'd you think I quit playing completely for the last two editions? Rulebloat and a retarded community that likes new rules every quarter and shit lore.
ToW just seems so much more fun and lore influenced which made me take the plunge.
Have a friend with a gigantic skaven army, empire and Brets so we'll writing our own lore that will stipulate what battles that will be played and with what units and characters.

>>95930014
The tank was also a transport, allegedly

>>95930000
hope you are correct.
cant stand those ugly old ass models especially when you put them next to the far superior new ones.

>>95930000
You forgot the landship

>inb4 but it wasn't invented yet
I don't fucking care, they can make marienburg remember they had tried this shit already

So is there a difference between this battle standard bearer and the guy with the standard who comes in the warrior box?

>>95930032
Apparently chariots back in the day were used with supporting infantry as means to deploy the best warriors while also providing missile support with javelins and allowing a means of fast safe withdrawal if necessary.
In a way, an APC is just a modern chariot.

>>95930095
Yes, that one looks like this

>>95930095
one is a BSB and the other is a standard bearer for the skeleton unit but as long as you make it clear to your opponent you could also use it as a BSB model.

>>95929936
Could also be some tourneyfag trying to gaslight people. Gotta keep the peons ignorant so you can smash em.

>>95930000
I like centigors even if they are all...squished laterally. Minos are fine too. Chariots need something but the bestigor is at least cool

>>95928965
>Zero ranged Core in Cathay
he's right, but the comparison is frankly stupid to even make given Cathay has all of 2 core units

>>95930124
>>95930140
Is a BSB just a flagbearer but in the character slot to be attached to random units wheras the flagbearer from the warrior box is exclusive to the warrior squad?

>>95930272
units can purchase a banner for themselves while the battle standard is a banner you get a hero to carry around, yes

>>95930188
>minos are fine

>>95930095
What's up with the fucking Mumm-Ra look on the nuKings?

Anyone have recommendations for static grass that matches well with a goblin green style paint?

>>95930290
I assume it's to try get better coverage on aura buffa, or is it fine to just run your two banners in unit upgrades?

>>95930339
Probably part of the whole appeal to China thing GW's doing. It's hard to try establish that monopoly when one of your premier factions is a bunch of skellies, yanno?

>>95930460
BSB does not get a limit on points he can put on th banner, go to the armory and look up how badass the most expensive banner is compared to all the 25 pts ones.

AVANTI PIGGALO!

>>95930339
>>95930472
that BSB is an old FW kit I think

>>95930490
not the TK one that was a new TOW kit

>>95930472
>vampire counts never come back to TOW because of the chinese

>>95930500
Just like Tomb Kings are getting squatted as we speak because of CCP hating skeletons right?

>>95928726
Good shit man

>Assembling some Gors
>Realized I made a Kratos looking gor
>He shall now be named Gortos and will either die a quick brutal death or live long enough to rival my beastlord for control over the Warherd

>>95930611
ARCHAEON! YOUR SON IS HERE!
Moral of the story is never fuck beast-does.

>>95930629
>Moral of the story is never fuck beast-does.
Don't tell me what to do!

I just like playing mordheim

do anons like it too?

>>95930569
B'seriously, if that whole discourse about GW trying to breach the China markey is true, then expect the 'remodels' for TK to feature more skin.

>>95930690
Or maybe we're wrong about the skul ban.

>>95929861
This is the worst list I've ever seen and if you don't know that you shouldn't be playing.

If this is a troll post then congrats you got me

>>95930700
Perrynigger reddit posting nigger kill yourself

>>95930700
Fuck off perryfag

>>95930690
The skeleton/skull myth was actually a cultural excuse for CCP officials to be bribed. Pay the right price and that cultural taboo disappears.

>>95930685
honestly no I don't get the hype. It is imbalanced, the gameplay mechanics suck and are too one dimensional for such small team games with very few options for interactions and narrative mechanics. Overall was fine for its time as a small offshoot but it pales in comparison to the heavy competition it has now with a ton of team tracking skirmish games around narrative play.

Looks like the UK finally sold out of battalion boxes for Cathay, actually looks like Australia and NZ are the only places that haven't sold out of them yet.

>>95930705
>>95930712
Not Perryfag just bored

>>95930685
I really Mordheim as a concept but I do find it a janky as fuck game to play. The campaign and warband system is what drives it, and no other small scale game from GW has come close on that front so it still has a warm place in my heart.

With that said, I think TNT and Zone Raiders have probably surpassed it for me as games in the last 3-4 years. I don't know how strong Trench Crusade's campaign system is but kinda interested in that too. Haven't found a purely fantasy skirmish game that can match Mordheim's narrative, Frostgrave just didn't get there for me.

>joke in this thread about spending $500 to make a mordheim warband from the balloon and cannon
>see this cunt on r*ddit
I hope you get run down in a rural location and wild dogs eat your undiscovered body

>>95930966
how the fuck is he gonna get run down in a balloon?

>>95930966
You can't pin the baloon in melee remember
>also both of you are redditfags

Do you still roll on 7+ armor saves or is that only for BS/WS?

Finished up my first WoC regiment. Took me longer than I thought but I'm really enjoying the painting part of the hobby. Not something I thought I'd be into honestly. Gonna base them later this week. Next up are some marauder horsemen. Is the battalion box still worth buying?
>>95928726
Really digging the snow effect on your dudes,

>>95931101
WoC Battalion box is pretty good casually, but not the best if you're looking for a competitive army.
Even casually I ended up just using 20 warriors and 5 knights from it for my army.

>in the process of assembling a 2000 point WoC army
What are the chances my list gets ruined by the upcoming balance changes?

>>95931135
100% because you're making a triple dragon list

>>95931135
I'm gonna be honest anon, I think while cathay doesn't match top tier brets and TKs it absolutely mogs WoC. And the balance changes and matched play rules look to hurt WoC builds specifically, nerfing their dragon (and only their dragon), capping the cost of their heroes, and buffing infantry in a way that doesn't really help WoC infantry at all (because it doesn't help elite infantry, and caps at a 3+ armor save that your infantry can already get).

So I think WoC are going to be severely hurt by the balance changes, matched play rules and introduction of a new army.

>>95931153
I would never
>>95931157
I just don't want to have to reformulate my list. I have a perfect 2,000 points.

>>95930685
never played it, I really should

>>95931157
All dragons are nerfed. You either take an ogre blade or a talisman

>>95931157
>3+ armor save that your infantry can already get
This only effects chosen and it may even save you points because you can skip full plate if you run them sword and board. But they're chosen so you run them with GW and plate so it's a nothing change for them

>>95931176
>All dragons are nerfed
Only the chaos dragon gets impetuous. Only the chaos dragon has 15 points left before the 500pt cap.

>>95931212
Only the Chaos Dragon is 10 wounds, free 5+ ward, free stat boosts, and 5 attack lord.

God, Chaos fags are insufferable

>>95931228
Yeah because the lord really makes the difference between the kitted out high elf dragon and the chaos dragon.

>>95930685
I’ve only played Warcry and mordheim thrice, and each time I’ve preferred neither. There were bits I liked from both games that could probably be meshed together to make a better game, but as it stands both are entirely whatever to me.

>>95931010
a 7 plus is effectively no save, it exists for mechanics sake to allow things to be buffed to 6+

>>95931236
NTA but you kvetching about high elf dragon lord being good still while your entire faction remains a better one, while for HE basically the entire faction is propped by dragons since the rest of their stuff is mid to shit, while bitching your dragon lord can still solo most armies but can beat the 2 or 3 top lords, really speaks to either your mentality, your meta being shit, or likely a bit of both.
>but you play HE
No wood elves and I'm fucked either way by dragon builds and my dragon being fucked, is what it is I just will play through the change.

>>95931271
Wood elves have definitely been done extremely dirty in tow. Probably the worst AJ

>>95931244
Thanks. I wasn't sure if you rolled a 6 and confirmed on 4+ like the BS test.

>>95931271
Ehhh, sisters of avelorn are pretty nutty.

>>95930629
>>95930647
Never happened, why would a Gigachad like Archaon fuck a single vagina when he can fuck an entire world

>>95931297
Wood elves don’t have that

>>95931294
The AoI are pretty uninspired and all our magic items being worse or same for more or same price sucks ass but w/e, if I can trudge through 7th and 8th ed beastmen I'll manage.
Besides by god these, while recasts, that guy and the wild riders are going to be a blast to paint, better than my 10 glade guard I still haven't fully figured out how I want to base.

>>95931271
I'm going to bitch until they make chaos warriors 2 points cheaper and that's that.

>>95931317
My point was that the high elves have them and that they're not as bad as you say they are.

Elementalism or Lore of Primal Magic?

>>95931309
>his sister of sigmar gf was a daemonette in disguise and his horse got bred by some Gor

About halfway done with Galrauch
>>95930685
Id love to honestly, but ive already produced a 6x4 tables worth of necromunda terrain I cant face doing it again but fantasy flavoured
>>95930437
If youre going for a true boomerhammer aesthetic I wouldnt even use static grass desu, Id either cover the base with sand then paint it green, drybrush yellow or use dyed-green sawdust you can get from model rail shops

>>95927726
>>95927734
>>95927862
>>95928988
And the Battalion starter box is also sold out in Europe. If you missed out, you only have yourself to blame because it toke them well over 24 hours to be all bought out.

>>95931543
Also sold out in japan, only left in Australia and NZ still

>>95931543
Found a listing still at MSRP from Minnesota on Ebay if anyone still wants one:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/197464968753?_skw=warhammer+grand+cathay&itmmeta=01JYD06YYWTNV5HEYNZ256WX6W&hash=item2df9d44e31:g:UxYAAeSwNqRoWEJh&itmprp=enc%3AAQAKAAAA8FkggFvd1GGDu0w3yXCmi1fNbxAJJoku6uvdgIQXgLIPxgBro4iQg73xRjFJfG2KPNFfDdRkY0p4Cb8cDgnmfJa%2B963ux%2Fl6S%2FpjWfbgCSu5N6gqSyG%2FRa%2B2hEaKQo5rci%2BzOApe6Wo10lap%2B6ulKfKdRVkNjMbE9UMZj9n4C5VXv0p%2F%2Bi%2BneJhAqklE2MWWWr6aNXK75qmfbpDL%2B%2FqHbGWF2gNVjwpE7HVvGWDxRFS2xWoRz0vQaKmtWvfhXZrDmpHXgSySMuRRIq7ZvWd0QbkOtXpDbsQSOdHE3WDRgEmLYNDB5VedwsCOznkNAGaOzA%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR8jvm6DzZQ

>>95931576
Leme guess, an LGS trying to offload their stock on Ebay because none of their customers in the last 24 hours placed any pre-orders?

>>95931543
Lmao, TOW haters in shambles. Sold out in the big 3 markets let's fucking gooooo

>>95931681
It's still only the battalion boxes no generals selling out makes me think actual sales to people looking to play them in TOW are low

>>95928965
>is he right?
All streamers are 100% goy cattle that cannot say anything controversial in fear of losing their goodies from GW. They will only speak out if they sense its not possible to gaslit their audience.

>>95931690
If that was the case the AJ wouldn't have sold out too. It's required to play them which means there's more players than GW expected (confirmed)

>>95931543
What I don't get is why are all the old batallion starter boxes still MSRPing at $185? The Cathay one can get away with it because they're brand new 2025 sculps, where as the rest are all +20 year miniatures.

>>95931228
>Only the Chaos Dragon is 10 wounds, free 5+ ward, free stat boosts, and 5 attack lord.
>
>God, Chaos fags are insufferable
You know what they could do other than to make it unplayable? Rebalance that shit and get rid of the chaos tax, everything is easily 30% more expensive than it should be. The internal balance of the army is in shambles. You want use to use something else than the dragon? Give us a reason to use the manticore, gives us items we can actually use to fight monsters as cavalry or infantry, 80% of our items are never ever used because its trash. The only undercosted unit in our army is the GCS and its by some 20~30 pts or so.

>>95931752
dunno but cathay being $185 makes me hopeful that when we get a new edition with new models for old units the $185 price statys

>>95930966
>have 0 interest in Cathay
>see the culturally and legally distinct china phoenix the fat bloke in the hot air balloon has
>think about what great bit for my pirate elves that'd be

>>95931731
More like GW made less journals than starter sets because the former isn't a time limited offer.

>>95931784
None of them are a limited time offer anon

>>95931788
huh

>>95931543
>>95928409
>>95931752
Keep in mind, the only way to get 6 cannons would be to buy 3 battalion boxes.

>>95931752
It's the same amount of plastic anon.

>>95931788
The dice are but the dice always are i think

>>95931807
Yeah forgot. Those are always FOMO. And always sell out basically everywhere but the US.

Ran over Age of Sigmar on my way to the thread today. Just didn't see it. Kinda felt bad, saw its leg was still twitching a bit as I drove off.

>>95931543
As an Empire player, why not buy a Lantern to use in your 500 points Ally army so you can use it as spotter for your cannons, as a flying banner for rerolling failed panic or rally tests, and more guns and bombs.

>>95931752
>why
GW

>>95931756
Dragon Ogres may be the shit with Dragons but I don't think WoC are totally garbage internally.

Our competitive units for example

>Chaos Lord
>Chaos Dragon
>Exalted Sorcerer
>Exalted Champion
>Chaos Knights
>Chaos Chosen Knights
>Chaos Warriors as a Bunker
>Marauder Horsemen
>Warhounds
>Warpfire Dragon
>Giant Spawn
>Dragon Ogres
>Forsaken

Just off the top of my head. It's not great but not too constricting either

>>95931804
Or you can just wait a few weeks and buy them in their own box of 2

>>95931916
>Chaos Warriors
come on now

>>95931977
They're shit at offense but can make a a pretty good bunker

>>95927726
>1) How do we resist being turned into the kind of GW product farm that Warhammer 40,000 and Age of Sigmar exist as?
We can't. It started with shitty nu-models like the Empire general or the Bret foot knights. No-one objected, people lapped up the slop. Cathay is just more of the same. I give the game another two editions before the rules are pared down to nothing and it just turns into AoS on squares.

>>95932057
The game already plays like that in tournaments

>>95931752
Why would new cost more? They've invested more money in the old sculpts through mold maintenance/redesigning packaging multiple times etc.

>>95932057
What exactly is wrong with those models?

>>95930685
*chugs garum*

>>95931752
GWs pricing logic is just "as much as we can get away with". they keep raising it, people keep paying, they raise it some more. in theory you'd think it would hit a point where people would stop putting up with it, but they haven't found it yet.

>>95932067
If anything the 'armies are just big monsters' problem is worse in TOW than it is in AOS.

It's pretty crazy how many influencers get product from GW.

>>95932260
Do you know how easy it is to get free product from GW? You don’t even have to have a lot of subs or views. Especially for games like TOW or AoS or anything that isn’t 40k.

>>95932278
That's what I mean. I'm seeing channels averaging like 2,000 views who got sent Cathayan armies.

>>95932141
We're in the age of 3D modeling softwares and DIY 3D printing. You got many small third party miniature companies that are making better looking proxy miniatures for Old World miniatures at a fraction of GW's asking price.

>>95931977
As I said, as a bunker. Standard mono a mono fighting? Too expensive, not good ROI. But as a tanky bunker? Just right and deceptively choppy with magic buffs.

>>95932297
Can confirm. Printed ~3000 points of Highlands empire and it cost ~$20 in materials. And they look great.

>Cathayan armor is more akin to China of the 12th or 13th century instead of the 16th century Empire
OH NO NO NO NO

>>95932347
Qing China was simply too kino for GW

>>95932344
Yeah 20 bucks, and no other inital investment of money eh?
>your guys looked great tho just gotta take the piss a bit

>>95932347
Said Cathayan armour also has a 33% chance of deflecting cannonballs.

>>95932354
>>95932347
So this is why I don’t fuck with Cathay at all. Man this is some gay shit.

>nomadic waaggh doesn't have a restriction on number of black orc warbosses you can take
>you can fit 3 with trollhide trousers + great weapons, general with talisman of protection
>core can be 2x7 each of cav spear and short bow wolf riders, and a black orc chariot
>and still fits your other 2 blorc chariots and a 10 man vanguard big un heavy armour + cav spear boar boys with the banner of butchery
Wow I forgot how points effecient orcs are.

>>95932368
The printer paid for itself two times over in the 7 months since I got it from printing stuff on commission for other people at my LGSs. Best purchase I've ever made honestly.

>>95932354
The regular rank and file Qing soldier didn't even wear armor.

>>95932354
Holy KVNO

This would have gone crazy. GW should have done Qing.

>>95932411
paint it green and that's literally a jade warrior.

This is what 3d prints are for.

>>95932396
Just use the WGA Boxers with the guns from the Afghans.

>>95932396
>>95932408
>>95932411
The sensitivity team probably had a meltie over the Qing being so much cooler than cringe Han shit era.

>>95932408
>>95932411
I don't think this cloth or fabric armor would do well. This will be luck to pass for Light Armour.

>>95932408
>>95932411
And here I thought Studded Leather Armor was bad. Studded Cloth Armor is even worse.

I mean.... it's basically just a gambeson isn't it?

>>95932373
The Chinese Mountain Pattern Armour only works if it's in a fantastical fictional setting.

>>95932411
>>95932441
It's because the Qings were not Han Chinese, but Manchurian. The Chinese were slaves until the fall of the Imperial system.

Are the Reference Cards they sell the absolute joke they appear to be? Or are they somehow valuable?

Fuck metal minis. My hands are covered in superglue.
I had to go out and buy thicker glue to get the parts together.

>>95932521
Skill issue.

>>95932511
If it's the mountain-shaped armour bits that most assume. No one has definitively recreated it in the modern times but this essay here has some better ideas than most in that the links would be shaped like the Chinese character for mountain, and thus able to flex, to a degree, and be perfectly wearable in panels.
https://www.armourarchive.org/essays/Shanwenkia.pdf

>>95930685
Wonderful concept, solid core rules, absolutely aesthetic rulebook, but the equipment costs are so laughably imbalanced I never want to play it again.

>>95932520
If you are retarded and can't be bothered to remember your spells or the items you put on your characters, they are valuable

>>95932521
Use green stuff or a liquid two-part epoxy.

>>95932520
Assuming you have an AJ they can be substituted with a post it note so.....

>>95932518
Doesn't the sensitivity team also find it ironic that the Warhammer Fantasy version of the Han Chinese being slaves to a famlily of immortal shape-shifting dragons instead of ruling themselves? If the Japanese were calling them Chankoro in real life, could you imagine what insults Settra would be hurling at the Cathayans for willfully being slaves to the dragons instead of having a backbone?

>>95930685
It's great if you got a gang that wants to have fun and play thematic, else every warband will be the same, running around with clubs, helmets and lucky charms.

>>95932551
Some people think it may have been plate armor that was fluted in mountain pattern.

>>95932603
They must especially hate them considering the nulore is that Cathay were their closest ally, sharing trade and knowledge for centuries only to completely abandon them to ruin once Nagash rose up.

>>95932603
I don't think they're even thinking about it from that angle, as Dragons are mystical creatures, and living in harmony is pretty big for the Chinese, the perfect communist uthopia, where all listen, do, and are loyal.

Decided to go with nmm for this army, it's fun to paint and since they're undead if I ever can't be fucked I can just paint the metal on a particular model as completely rusted.

>>95932603
>>95932624
>could you imagine what insults Settra would be hurling at the Cathayans for willfully being slaves to the dragons instead of having a backbone?

>>95932699
I could honestly see tomb kings and southland lizardmen temporarily putting aside their difference to put some cathayan expedition in their place

Kislev when

>>95932814
I think the first Lizardmen we'll see is a more savage army in the Dragon isles.

tow would have been significantly more popular if they'd spent the resources for the foot knight kit on a new basic skeleton kit for tomb kings in the style of the tomb guard/2008 vc skeletons

>>95932980
Nobody cares for tomb kings. You’d make a better argument for empire, but bretonians are the space marines for fantasy.

>>95932980
TOW is popular enough that they are rushing out releases for it to make room for new content.

>>95933071
getting 3 armies in the span of about a month is kind of odd ya. On the other hand we've got probably a year and a half left in the edition assuming a standard 3 years and don't really know what's left beyond that Cathay is getting a second AJ

>>95932980
I love the goofy lil fuckers. Much prefer them to tomb guard.

>>95933081
We don't know what is coming. What we do know is something is coming because otherwise GW would have spaced out the old army releases far more gradually.

>guys at the local stores pushing squares and trays around again
>grass mats and actual cool terrain again, don't have to worry about looking at L-shaped ruin horseshit on the store tables anymore
>all the models I grew up with back in production
>new armies being made for warhammer fantasy
>new ttrpg
>releases for fantasy keep selling out preorders
>mordheim has a massive influx of new fans and events
>even a competitive play book has cool modeling ideas like baggage trains
>age of sigmar dying, 40k in its most divisive edition yet.
what occurred in the timeline for this shift to happen and how do we keep it this way?

>>95932989
>Nobody cares for tomb kings.
NTA but you can't know this without them getting updated core troops

Can a Skaven Warlord with Felblade use verminous valour to escape to the back of his unit AFTER he has fought?

The rules states that he "may voluntarily 'retire' to the rear of the unit at any time" unless he's being challenged.

Assuming that he has higher initiative than his opponent can't he strike then retire to the back where he can't be hit?

Pic is my Grey seer and Skaven Chieftain that I'm in the process of finishing.

>>95933081
>what's left beyond that Cathay is getting a second AJ
dogs of war arcane journal for plenty of returning metal units to sell to all armies
second round of arcane journals for everyone
>chaos: nurgle and khorne AoIs
>beasts: fimir+drogres and morghur AoIs
>helves: dragons and phoenixes AoIs
>welves: ariel and drycha AoIs
>empire: marienburg and reikland AoIs
>dwarfs: bugman and thorek (old) AoIs
>greens: shamans and squigs AoIs
>bretts: grail knights and airforce AoIs
>kangs: khalida and arkhan (old) AoIs

>>95933149
Good always wins in the end

>>95933251
If that were true GW would have died and warmachine would have won

>>95932699
>>95932814
The Eight Nation Alliance to protect the Warpstone trade in Cathay has been formed.

>>95933168
Assuming no challenge yes. However if challenged you'd have to retire before the combat starts and be out of the fighting rank

>>95933149
>what occurred in the timeline for this shift to happen and how do we keep it this way?
Peripheral products such as video games set in Fantasy sell well whereas AoS equivalents never do.

>>95933192
I'll assume we get thee rest of the old armies first but it'd be nice.
As it stands TOW is only 1.5 years old and we are at 10 armies. Assuming another 1.5 years in 1st edition and that's more than enough time to release
>Vampire Counts
>Chaos Dwarves
>Skaven
>Dark Elves
>Ogres
>Deamons
>Lizardmen
Though i think only Vampire Counts and Skaven have been squated from AoS so far (though Chaos Dwarves never went there to begin with)
And then Kislev.
So 7 armies left, 8 with DoW. I don't think we'll see new AJ's till 2nd edition desu unless they keep up the current pace of releases and we enter next year with only 2-3 armies left to release

>>95932616
Did China ever make plate armor of that size? I don't think I've ever seen unfuted plate armor like that coming out of China.

>>95933192
do people actually want Dogs of War?

>>95933286
Gotta protect 'Free Trade' anon. Looking forward to the 55 days of Warpstone Wars anon

>>95933350
I don’t know. It would be more interesting than Cathay and Kislev however. It’d actually be a fantasy army as well.

>>95932396
>Both Creative Assembly and a Chinese sensitivity team were very helpful, providing guidance documents to ensure we understood China and didn’t make the wrong move. There are various symbols to avoid, and referencing certain styles of clothing and hair which signify darker periods in Chinese history. We had to be respectful of those, alongside these other considerations.

>>95933350
yes

>>95933350
They appeal to the widest group of players as you can add one unit of them to any army.

I have decided my old man thing will be collecting vintage Warhammer Fantasy army books. To begin this collection I have ordered the 6th edition Tomb Kings and Wood Elves army books off ebay both in excellent condition. For less than $100 Canadian total including shipping (shipping was more than 1/3 of the cost Canada is a fucking disaster of a country)

>>95933375
Most old people hobbies involve ruining the world for the younger generations. Get with the times.

>>95933385
Eh I am nearing 30 so I still have plenty of time to advance to more devious hobbies. For now it's collecting all the books that were recent when I was a kid first getting into the hobby.

>>95933361
>referencing certain styles of clothing and hair which signify darker periods in Chinese history.

Kinda retarded since most of Warhammer is focused on the darkest parts of history.

Seems like most of the ebay sales are starting to run out of stock. I wonder if we'll start seeing things that aren't the Battalion box/Dice/AJ start selling out for cathay before Saturday. Would it be reasonable to assume that they'll put more stock up for sale saturday?

>>95933369
Maybe I'm weird because that disincentivises them to me because that's not an army then, and they'd also not match my army so why add them

>>95933350
Why wouldn't you want any of these units?

>>95933350
its literally 1 anon here shitposting his heart out about it, for the most part people have either limited memeory of the joke of an army that was dogs of war, or have zero interest in it
that said, after we get the other big hitters not seen such as kislev and chaos dwarfs, I can see them doing a MTO for the DoW as an event and give them legacy stats or something.

>>95933442
Weren't DoW the 2nd or 3rd least played army pre-ET? Even with that i wouldn't be surprised to see them considering how much focus the Southern Kingdoms got around launch

>>95933449
Pretty sure they didn't have rules since 6th gave them a last hurah. Even choefs got a forgeworld list.

>>95933449
>>95933455
>>95933442
DoW should just be a proper Border Princes book with a new range. Flesh out Tilea and Estalia (after Kislev)

>>95933459
It would be cool but way low on the priority list.

>>95933435
Oh wow, I thought dogs had the Greek looking dudes, never mind. The undead group is the only cool thing here. Forget about it.

>>95933432
Are you the same anon in /twg/ that harps on about legend

>>95933435
Because they look kinda crap

Are Dark Elves the coomer faction?

>>95933520
No it’s ogres and beastmen

>>95932521
Get a bottle of acetone to quickly disintegrate glue on hands. Just wear goggles as that shit is strong.

Game of thrones is getting an rts, it seems like the old world will finally get some competition now.

>>95933611
>based on the show
instant trash

>>95933449
>Weren't DoW the 2nd or 3rd least played army pre-ET?
Believable and unsurprising, considering the only book they had was barely supported even during 6th edition and all their range was in metal, that's not something that helps people make armies.
but they were very popular in their time, when such things were closer to the norm.

>>95933611
There's already a tabletop wargame, it's irrelevant, a videogame will be even more irrelevant.

>>95933469
>the Greek looking dudes
these guys?

>>95933640
Oh yeah, them.

>>95932600
>>95932582
thought so, thanks. My friend seems to think some of them have like exclusive rules on them and I was sure he's imagining shit to justify his wasted money

>>95933508
What faction do you like?

What more does this need to be a basic army? Was thinking Hellblaster and Rocket box, maybe cannons and an engineer?

>>95933689
he loves cathay and stormcasts

>>95933700
Man, the steam tank is such a neat concept and design, to think people would cry about it if it wasn't a long established thing.

>>95933700
Get this from GW or an FLGS https://www.warhammer.com/en-CA/shop/Collegiate-Arcane-Mystic-Battle-Wizards

It's boxed as AoS but those are all Fantasy sculpts and you get 4 for like $50 which is a great deal.

>>95933689
Tomb Kings

>>95933727
>great deal
As opposed to the $25 Wizard box from Northstar which makes 8.

>>95932624
They have reeducation camps and a secret police in Total War. That the Moon Empress can do mindwipes of the entire population. We'll have to wait and see if the Cathay that GW designed 6 or so years ago for TW still exists.

>>95933759
Moon Empress sounds more like a Dark Souls primary antagonist. Mystical, otherwordly and scary.

>>95933757
Yeah but a lot of people want Warhammer Fantasy minis in their Warhammer Fantasy armies. With the amount of time and effort you put into each army who cares about saving a few bucks for third party meme minis. If you like that, power to you, but id rather have fantasy models.

>>95933770
>mental gymnastics
Well now that cretin figure purists are here the game is well and truly "alive" now.

>>95933776
>I want to use Warhammer Fantasy miniatures in my Warhammer Fantasy army
>WTF PURIST RUINING EVERYTHING
meds now

>>95933765
>Moon impress

>>95933757
I don't think they look that good though.

>>95932347
nay the cathay designs go all the way back to late warring states----> early tang, so like 400-800 ad.

>>95933700
The steam tank comes with a foot engineer. I'd recommend cannons over the rocket/hellblaster box. This anon >>95933727 is right and that kit is awesome.

I personally like the empire knights kit. The miniatures are older, but I think they have charm. The knightly orders are all pretty flavorful with knights of the white wolf being pretty strong thanks to furious charge. It's a good $/points kit plus regular knights can help fill out core.

>>95933757
There's certain eras they suit better, 6E for instance, but the WFB wizards are a great looking kit.

>>95933770
Buying shit no matter how it looks because it's Official(tm) is super gay though. Inbred monkey man swiss mercenaries? No thanks.

>>95932396
oh didn't they?

I dont like Cathay because
>Incomprehensible schizo spergout

>>95933993
that's a little disingenuous anon there have been many great points about why the faction has been delivered poorly, however it is true that many anons (merifats) hate the idea of Cathay simply because they don't want anything China in the setting.

>>95934012
It was done poorly but the people complaining about muh china are really starting to annoy me

>>95934028
even Ogres didn't get away without some controversy, remember people saying how busted an army of monstrous creatures would be and how it's not ogres like they used to be depicted and the gut plates looked dumb etc etc. Even the idea of Kislev getting in the game pisses certain people off, so Cathay was never going to get out unscathed.

>>95934028
I like ancient china, I like the idea of china before the whole opium thing ( Fuck brits btw, yes I KNOW THIS IS A BRITISH GAME BUT I FUCKING HATE, LOATHE THEM EVEN), but Cathay is genuinely just a disappointment. Even the rumored arcane journal wont make the army be...appealing in the long term ( it does sound fun, at least compared to the other arcane journals, not that thats an achievement).

Also Im frankly worried about tow just being humans on humans, even if the legacy factions return.

Ok lads I'm buying in with Cathay
Even though it'll be a bit stereotypical since I'm Chinese this'll be my first warhammer army and my second will be Chaos Dwarfs WHEN GW releases them
Wish they didn't do the sky lantern and hopefully taking 1 would be enough

>>95934061
if their arcane journal adds some of the range stuff like crane gunners you could probably get away without a sky lantern, but at the minute it is their best range output unit for dropping wounds.

>>95934061
sky lantern is honestly skippable if you dont like it. provides some tactical flexibility for movement and its got an interesting profile, but its also gonna be fucking impossible to transport, and its $160 usd for a 130pt model which is possibly some of the worst value in all of warhammer points per dollar.

i would skip it until you get the rest of your army filled out, and even then i dont think i'd ever run more than 1, but i could see playing without it all together, especially once miao ying and her toolbox of spellcasting show up to support the army.

>>95934083
>but at the minute it is their best range output unit for dropping wounds.

i think you can shore that up with rocket batteries and magic missiles

>>95934087
>>95934083
No I love it but I wish GW had released more infantry instead in the initial wave and also that's exactly what I thought was going to happen
High cost, low points and almost mandatory
As someone who tried collecting Mechanicus in 40k I knew it was coming

>>95928205
The document has gone past 20000 characters, parts of it involve the difference in dragon physiologies diets and behaviours between the eastern, western and pole dragons, not to be confused with polish dragons or pole dancing dragons

all vital, I swear

>>95934175
I think you have just found a hobby anon, good for you. I cant bring myself to write stories for some odd reason anymore, but its nice knowing others have that fire in them.

>>95934061
>and my second will be Chaos Dwarfs WHEN GW releases them
They're coming before the end of this year
for age of sigmar

>>95934185
It's not even good writing, I couldn't write properly written stories or dialogues for shit, it's just the textual equivalent of autistic scribbles at the corners of pages, or doing pic related, at the end of the day looking around for leeways and angles to explore and checking whether they contradict what's already established is kinda like doing simple puzzles

but, yes it IS entertaining

I wonder why GW seems absolutely allergic to printing rules for minis that dont exist yet

>>95934230
Forsaken have rules but no minis right now

>>95934037
>so Cathay was never going to get out unscathed
While that's true, the reception to the cathay arcane journal has been much harsher than the one of cathay miniatures or depiction in total war, because the designs themselves or the fundamental premises and goals of the faction aren't really the problem here, it's that the faction desperately needed the same fleshing out the other armies got with their old armybooks, the same depth and width and 'justifications' of its differences, which meant the journal had a lot to address and a lot of expectations placed on it, but not only it didn't deliver on them because the format of the journal themselves is way too slim for the kind and amount of info we used to get from armybooks, but that little it wrote was pretty much flat and without the open hooks and ambiguity people like to read and talk about
and this exacerbates the fears people had and still have with the way the fluff is being handled for cathay

GW has mentioned a few times that they have made a lengthy lorebook for cathay, and that they're not publishing everything they've written, partially because niche stuff like nippon etc are not the focus and probably also because the role of the journal is to be an introduction rather than an all encompassing guide about the faction

But I say, if GW released a primer for the fluff of all the stuff they've written behind the scenes for cathay, a lot of the problems people find with the introduction of the faction would probably be dispelled, since once you put enough stuff on the table, depth and complexity arise on their own, and the flatness of the journal's presentation can be seen for what it is instead of what people fear it is

>>95934230
didn't they lose a lawsuit over this?

Did people cancel their orders? Why is everything back in stock?

>>95934278
as of right now to use GW's own word,s Cathay is presented as "Lilly White" for to feel very warhammer

Are the current Chaos Chosen the original sculpts or was there an older version? If I remember right chosen were originally a unit upgrade that could be shown with a fancy paintjob or some kitbashing, but I may be wrong.

>>95934278
maybe but I think most the lore for Cathay landed wrong anyway and more of it won't help, they've started out from a dull and uninteresting premise that doesn't fit into the setting so much as bludgeon existing lore for the sake of shoehorning the faction they want into the setting. The only salvation for it would be maybe more focus on the emperor secretly wanting to change the worlds orbit again and freeze the planet, but just stringing along humans as helpful servants to keep chaos at bay while he figures it out, but they still need way more strife between the siblings, less utopian circumstances for the people and more of a strained dynamic between the humans and dragons. There also at minimum needs to be some existential threats to Cathay before they would begin to seem heroic like the Empire, where's the chaos hordes pushing their shit in or ogres eating a ton of cities etc.

>>95934300
Those were forsaken, and if you mean the metal ones, then yeah.

>>95934099
>almost mandatory

i really dont get that vibe from it. a useful tech piece with some not insignificant damage options, but i dont think the army falls apart without it. i think the longma lord and miao are far more important.

i am worried about miao though. she's larger than the sentinel in her dragon form and the kit also comes with an on foot form that fits on a 50mm base, and she's a legendary character. she's gonna end up being like $300

>>95934230
chapterhouse fiasco:

long ago GW did include rules for unit profiles and special characters without miniatures, and not just for stuff that at the moment didn't have miniatures in production but did in the past or would soon enough, but for stuff with little hope of ever receiving a model or kit, even for concepts that wouldn't be exactly easy to convert for a newbie

but then third party miniatures makers began to make proxies for those units and concepts, as well as for bits for equipment that GW either didn't produce or didn't include enough in kits, and GW eventually moved a legal lawsuit against that company, chapterhouse

amidst everything that transpired during the case, GW was told that it couldn't claim intellectual property over miniatures it didn't produce and only had descriptions, rules or art for

after that there was a relatively fast rapid fire releases of new codexes that removed units without models, as well as (sometimes cheap looking) kits that would cover the remaining unit profiles, mostly 40k, but also fantasy

this war against third party alternatives somewhat continues today too, some equipment options just disappear, while other weapons get a homogeneous profile so that you're not incentivised to buy third party bits to kit out the unit as you would want. fixed unit sizes also ensure that you don't have that much freedom to convert your heroes from your basic footsoldiers with some bits without ending up with an understrength unit, and some people who used to work at GW have suggested that some kits are intentionally designed to be cut out into parts for the sprue to make it less intuitive to make compatible kits for it, or less likely to leave usable spare parts, because for example kits like blightkings can get you way more miniatures if you just recast some legs

>>95934331
one glaring example I remember is the backpacks of the flying sisters of battle, where they have 2 different sets of backpacks, but GW cut out a part of the backpack into a separate bit onto the sprue, not to gain space, because the bit might as well be included already moulded into the backpacks, but exclusively so you wouldn't use the leftover whole backpacks onto other models to turn normal sisters into more elite sisters

I also believe GW is stopping 360° views and sprue shots of the models onto the webstore so that it would be harder for 3D sculptors to make replicas of the models

it's just a shitshow all around, the fortunate thing is that TOW is managed by the ex-specialist team, so it's not really a mainline product like 40k and AoS and can get away with some equipment options or unit profiles for stuff without models here and there

>>95934287
They literally said "without being lily-white in virtue" in the article, are you dumb

>>95934336
That's why I'm quoting them anon as they clearly failed at making Cathay as presented in the AJ morally grey in any way.

>>95932220
>GWs pricing logic is just "as much as we can get away with"
Congrats, you have discovered how a market functions.

>>95934331
>>95934335
Odd that i never heard about this. I just assumed Cathay mightve been a bit rushed and didnt think much about it.

>>95934278
>>95934301
I think the idea is that the darker sides of Cathay will appear in the next armybook along with units like the Onyx Crowmen, who are in the mural they've shown off.
We know from Total War that they have mandatory prayer, re-education camps, Yuan Bo's entire secret police schtick, Dragon Emperor's grudge against the Old Ones and their campaign against the Geomantic Web. From the AJ we know that Xen Yang nuked the Sky Titans, and that the Moon Empress can wipe the memories of all Cathayans.
Apart from that, they have the Monkey King in the south to worry about, eastern Dark Elf raids, and most notable are the never ending Chaos invasions in the north. Tzeentch is particularly strong in Cathay, with many cults. This is what the Onyx Crowmen are for, they hunt down unsanctioned mages and insurrectionists.
Furthermore, the dragon siblings constantly bicker. They had that 400-year long period where the Emperor and Empress disappeared and they just started duking it out immediately. Cathay can't survive without the Dragon Emperor because Cathay's very essence hinges on him being powerful and outwardly virtuous. The Dragon siblings themselves are all flawed and can't rule for shit.
It's troubling that GW chose to not include barely any of this in the Arcane Journal. I don't buy the argument that it's written from an in-universe perspective.
The Total War guys got all the fluff from someplace, they didn't make it up, which means it's in the armybook GW made. Let's hope it trickles down.
I guess also that the emergence of Asavar Kul and the return of Chaos will really fuck up Cathay initially.

>>95934230
>nuln gunners
>gorsaken
> razorgor chariots
>guardians of talysin
>storm weavers
>ships company
>marauder chief (I guess wulfhart exists)
Off the top of my head

>>95934401
Fluff quality aside, all things point to cathay not having been rushed, the usual timeframe from design to product can be 3-4 years, while cathay was in the works since before covid apparently
gw coming out to say they've got a second arcane journal ready pretty much suggests they have quite a few more kits ready for them, maybe not 7 more, but even just with 3 or 4 more kits they'll end up getting the biggest range an army ever got out of the gate in one year

If they released "only" 8 kits it's because GW knows they can't put out too many kits at once or they would oversaturate the budget most people reserve for purchases, where if they're offered too many things at once they realise they can't get them all, decide which ones to get and which ones not to get and they end up never buying the latter ever again, because the hype for them doesn't last too much
instead if they release the ranges in halves, more of those same people end up getting everything because they get caught in the hype twice, and usually there's always something left out in the first wave that makes the second wave appealing (in this case the actual dragons)

>>95934429
>From the AJ we know that Xen Yang nuked the Sky Titans
what? he nuked the ogres, the sky titans were friends, or have I missed something?

>>95934450
Wait, I thought the second arcane journal is coming with miao ying and the individual kits? Well I guess we'll figure that out with the upcoming preview show this...friday?

>>95934464
they might talk about ti a bit eailer since we are getting more dev interviews about Cathay this week

>>95934464
>Wait, I thought the second arcane journal is coming with miao ying and the individual kits?
We have no confirmation whatsoever but it would be pretty lame if they made a second arcane journal without any unit profile to add through it, and the way they set down the grand army rules and miao ying dragon rules are quite evidently future proofed for at least another dragon getting added to the army.

>>95934454
Excuse me friendo you're correct, I was thinking of the Sky Titans and their terrible fate while meaning to write Ogres

>>95934387
well you should've proof read your post like 5 more times, because that's not what you actually did

>>95934438
You can add warped Gors and the herdstone to that list as well

Sauce on second arcane journal already for Cathay?

>>95934630
The Warhammer Community articles confirmed it. Check the end of the pre-order one

>>95934630
>What’s rare is for the Dragons to come to the Old World at the head of an army that looks like it could be an invasion fleet – which is what we get into in the second Cathayan Arcane Journal…
>https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/zscdwwzf/old-world-almanack-a-short-history-of-cathay/

>>95934619
Herdstone didn't get ported? And gorsaken=warped gors

>>95934654
>Herdstone didn't get ported?
No, even though they show it in the Model photography in the Beastmen book.

>>95934654
>Herdstone didn't get ported?
Its backside is shown in the army shots, but no, it's not available for TOW and instead the journal tells you to convert it

it has too many aos specific bits sculpted on it apparently

>>95934648
>>95934652
Holy shit like obviously we knew a second one would be coming in a couple years but the fact they have shit already solidified and planned makes me want to ram my cock into my wife's juicy little cunt and absolutely paint her cervix with my cum.
Just absolutely fucking ruin the mattress as I drive her into the bed

You guys probably can't relate being virgins and all

>>95934717
whats stopping you?

>>95934717
Why is your sex drive with your wife dictated by the release schedule of chinese miniatures?

>>95934722
Playing SplitGate2
I'll pound her smooth cunt in a bit

>>95933336
>though I think only vanpire counts and skaven have been squatted from aos
I assume you mean the models here, in which case yeah I think vc and skaven have been mostly purged of old models in aos. There's still some stuff around, more so for vampires than skaven. Stuff like ghouls and horrors in their flesh eater courts, a handful of ghost models in nighthaunt, and shit like the mortis engine and whatnot is still floating around in the gravelords range. Lizards also got a big update recently which removed some old stuff but the range still has a ton of 7th/8th edition models which are pretty core for the army.
>chaos dwarves never went there to begin with
They actually did, under the name legions of azgorh. Even got an exclusive model, the executioner bull centaur character. The army only lasted an edition or two though.

>>95934242
It's odd that GW didn't bring back the 8th ed forsaken kit. It had some neat bits that I would have liked to use. Well, at least not having access to that kit gave me an excuse to use the one 5th ed mutation sprue I was able to find.

>>95934766
The mould was probably damaged beyond repair that seems to be the case for a lot of the older models

>>95934759
>Lizards also got a big update recently which removed some old stuff but the range still has a ton of 7th/8th edition models which are pretty core for the army.
lizards in tow can make do the moment aos updates 3 things, leaving them for tow: skinks, guards and stegadon; once tow lizards lose rules for 3 units: troglodon, ripperdactyls and bastiladon; and once they use the older metal models for 3 units instead of their 8th ed plastics: carnosaur, terradons and skink priests

then tow lizards can complement their roster by getting the dread saurian as fixed part of their rules, getting horned ones riders and skinks with bows back, and getting rules for things to convert between
>sacred spawning sauri
>arcanodon/thunder lizard
>coatl
>pyramid/jungles terrain pieces

an army of infamy that's mainly dinosaurs without riders herded by lizardmen hunting packs of scouts and skirmishers, in light of the old rules for the dragon isles, would also be pretty cool to add to an arcane journal
the other list can be something about a sacred host with plenty of engines of the gods, temple guards, slann and sacred spawnings, I guess

>>95934792
that's some bullshit, forsaken were one of their latest kits and way older kits are back in production

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/rrielj4b/old-world-almanack-grand-cathay-on-the-tabletop/
>A number of units have it at the moment, but should the roster grow, this may change to demonstrate the breadth of Imperial forces

it looks to me they're hinting at paesants getting added and not getting this rule, otherwise the statement makes little sense if they were planning on giving it to all future units

>>95934853
FUCKING YIKES, TERRAIN AND OCCUPYING BUILDING RULES LOCKED INTO THE 2ND ARCANE JOURNAL
what a fucking scam lol no new models but here's some shit we cut out of the core rules/matched Play guide!!!

>>95934853
never fucking mind
>JTY: The second Arcane Journal will be released alongside Miao Ying and the individual releases from the Cathayan Battalion, but there are no other unrevealed units scheduled. It’s a very narrative journal – we focus on how Chaos is affecting Grand Cathay and what makes the Storm Dragon decide to travel to the Old World. We discuss Cathayan connections between east and west – hinting at the antagonisms between the Jade Fleet and the Elves of Ulthuan – and the continuing war in Westerland.

>It also includes additional rules on terrain generation, occupying buildings, and multiplayer rules, as well as a load of scenarios. We follow this up with an Army of Infamy for Grand Cathay, the Jade Fleet, which is allowed to take a number of Empire of Man units as Mercenaries – the kind of force that’s battling back against the Chaos incursion at this time. We round it out with yet more Magic Items.

yeah no new units. I dunno why people were expecting new unrevealed stuff so early on.
dunno how to feel about needing to use stinky empire models for the army of infamy...

>>95934230
There’s a ton of units in the arcane journals with no official models thobeit

>>95933361
>we consulted top of the line culture warriors as to how portray China without causing 1.4 billion Chinese people to have century of humiliation-induced meltdowns and commit ritual suicide and settled on the middle kingdom being the strongest and bestest

>>95934875
official chink hate club
>high elves
>lizardmen
>tomb kings

Age of Sigmar is dying. And you're laughing about it.

>>95934875
>lmao, we stuck parts of the game rules in an army book for our new flagship faction so I guess you'll all have to buy it, you fucking rubes

>>95934875
>It also includes additional rules on terrain generation, occupying buildings, and multiplayer rules, as well as a load of scenarios.
This probably should have just been a separate book

>>95934834
Wasn't there an old stegadon model too or am I imagining things ? And yeah, your post matches what I was thinking too, with some metal models brought back lizards could function pretty well with the stuff dropped from aos recently.

>>95934733
virgin detected as soon as you marry a woman your sexual attraction to her dies overnight and you rely on outside stimulus to provide your libido

>>95934899
Really? Maybe I can sell my chaos warrior army to one of them. Not really fond of tow.

>>95934908
yeah like the matched play book that no one will buy because it offers nothing new.

>>95934943
MPB already sold out

>>95934943
The Americans bought it so much that it sold out over there.

>>95934951
You mean the arcane journal?

>>95934958
It sold out in the US

>>95933361
>>95933421
You do realize the darkest part of German/Austrian history would be WWII right?

Could I paint my Cathay troops as terracotta warriors and use them as counts-as tomb kings? (e.g. tomb guard) Or is that very bad Feng shui

>>95934978
shut the fuck up retard its a fantasy game not a WWII game

>>95934978
I thought it would be the discovery of the Brit’s. Or the French.

>>95930700
It's fine shitting on my list but if you could it'd be great to have some advice on how I can tweak the list while still sticking to the kind of ideas I want, so not having a wyvern and still having loads of savage orcs, also ideally still getting to have the goblin ambusher bomb.

>>95934956
>>95934960
so do the 4 month chapter approved decks for 40k, americans have waacbrain they have neither the imagination nor self-governance to play without total guidance. Literal shills like square based or mountain minis aren't interested in it.

>>95934983
>>95934988
And the Qing exist in the same timeframe as early colonial Europe where every soldier was armed with a musket and socket bayonet, way too late for the early Renaissance/Pike & Shot feel.

>>95934978
Eight million Germans died or were displaced from the "country" during the thirty years war.

>>95934875
Ok this is the first time im going to freak out but what the fuck?

Why is the Cathay army so fucking tiny????

Sitting on a goldmine here and this also means Cathay is going to get fucked hard when people invariably adapt

>>95935037
buy the shitty empire models

>>95935042
BUT I FUCKING HATE EMPIRE

>>95934929
>Wasn't there an old stegadon model too or am I imagining things ?
The metal one yes, but that would make lizardmen an army without plastic monsters, and I think the stegadon is both an important element of lizardmen ranges, a very nice plastic kit deserving of preservation, and a relatively outdated 7th ed models that, at least in aos, suffers greatly from scale creep and from the fact their range has been updated with new design cues and standards

>>95935037

Good luck adapting to a 135pt flying chariot with 5 guns, 7 wounds, unbreakable and the ability to just fuck off into the sky.

Do you think Victrix 28mm vikings could be a good proxy for chaos marauders?

>>95935047
To bad! GW lined you in hook line and sinker and now you have to help them liquidate their stock of shoeless baboons with guns before they do an Empire range refresh.

>>95935070
Ok you made me laugh. Thanks.

>>95935067
James Workshop is truly Satan incarnate

>>95935037
>Why is the Cathay army so fucking tiny????
Option one: they have the second half of the range ready but are waiting on the sales numbers of this first wave to confirm it's a viable army to finally pull the trigger on the making of moulds and production of that second wave

Option two: they have a very limited budget for the old world and are preferring small ranges, and to make both cathay and kislev, rather than just one of them, or biting more than they can chew for the projects

Option three: they're lying, have a second half ready and releasing relatively soon, but want people to buy as much as possible of this first wave before they announce the second half, and also want people to buy more arcane journals with less content

>>95935069
Yes, slap some chaosy bits (chaos stars on banners etc) on them and away you go.

the battalion is no longer sold out in the US, either a lot of people gave up their pre-order or they are already getting restocks after 2 days

>>95934891
also ogres, chaos, dark elves (and hobgoblins, kuresh, ind and nippon)

>>95935069
No

>>95935069
not much that way, no, you'd need to convert them a bit to make them scarier looking with horns, spikes, warpaints, trophies and chaos iconography.

>>95934891
>>tomb kings
do they count? it's really nagash more the other nehekarans who were allies

/wfg/ I need your honest advice

>friend so hyped for Cathay, his hype makes me dump buckets on starting new army
>plan to play TT together
>play on TTS together a few times
>completely slaughter him last game
>starts complaining saying it annoys him checking rules etc
>mfw

We are all bad losers the odd time if we play long enough but I am worried since my army list is actually semi optimised that if I butcher him in the TT too badly, he won't want to play anymore.

What do?

>inb4 don't use dragon or mass cavalry

I have neither

>>95935192
>since my army list is actually semi optimised
have you tried not optimising your list? maybe have fun with characters instead of chasing the most cost effective loadout?

>>95927646 (OP)
I think it would be rad if Brettonia had more of a focus on different mystical mounts. like if it was a tradition to beat then TAME various myrthical beasts. So that a few knights might ride white lions of trace, some ride of demigryphs, some sphynx and the very pinical ride on dragons.

calling back to actual arthurian legions like Yvain, the Knight of the Lion.
Maybe a dedicated unit of champions riding a reviety of obscure beasts. a easter egg questing beast being one.

>>95935209
When I say optimised I mean balanced enough to face a not complete WAAC but also not hard nuff to table a casual

For example I got

Chaos Knights
Marauders with flails
Chaos Warriors
Hounds

Nothing huge, but not dog crap either.

>>95935192
He should learn the rules then, if checking them annoys him so much.

>>95935210
Anon you know as well as I do that this place would have an aneurism if gw came out with anything more exotic than a pegasus in a fantasy game

>>95935244
I will suggest that actually, I was the one doing the rules keeping. Had a book and my laptop in front. Not a bad idea.

>>95935085
>Option one: they have the second half of the range ready but are waiting on the sales numbers of this first wave to confirm it's a viable army to finally pull the trigger on the making of moulds and production of that second wave

We already cleared that stretch goal. The battalion boxes are both sold out in the NA and Europe.

>>95935280
They are no longer sold out in the US actually.

>>95935210
Some creatures are horrible chaos monsters, other are exotic things that live way beyond bretonnia and look way out of place in the bretonnian roster, especially if they actually belong visually to other ranges.

But I agree with the concept IF the beasts are properly themed, and somewhat known in bretonnian culture as potentially identified as noble hearted creatures by the lady or her agents, rather than mere beasts or monsters that need slaying.

The most exotic I can go for a knight is a fantasy version of a rhino that doubles down on the medieval drawings of it, or an interpretation of the questing beast.
Otherwise I'd stick with simpler stuff like intelligent noble dragons, venom-less wyverns with hawk hoods, winged lions, mighty white stags or boars, and the odd terrasque if used as an excuse to carry around a medieval tower and to juxtapose an ugly beast with a fair maiden keeping it on a thin silver leash.

>>95935280
>We already cleared that stretch goal.
Well, surely the green light for the mould making and the production of the stock will take a while.

>>95935290
The battalion box looks sold out to me.

https://www.warhammer.com/en-US/the-old-world/grand-cathay

>>95935290
Yeah that happens with non-limited releases in 40k too. They initial stock gets sold out then the get some more in a few days into the preorder period. Generally happens when they sell out more than expected so they take stock from the retailer pool to keep their store stocked.
Same thing happened with the TK/Bret starter boxes which sold out instantly but came back in stock 2 days or so before official release.

>>95935217
>Marauders with flails
How hard are you going with this? What stuff does he have? I could see stuff like this tearing apart someone who doesn't know what they are doing.

Hey /wfg/, I am quite new to Fantasy and recently stumbled onto these cards in a small local fair, I bought them for around 30 dollars all together.

I am guessing these are from the Fantasy setting from before the End Times right? I was wondering if I could resell them to get some funds for a starter box.

What are they even?

>>95935319
This also happened with the 40k Kill Team: Typhon set where there was a very small window where stocks were back.

>>95935311
>>95935290
lmao it is sold out again, Cathay cannot be stopped.

>>95931576
>>95935311
Goddammit, now what am I suppose to use as proxies?

>>95935350
Great to see Old World doing so good.

>>95935192
Take advantage of the fact you're playing on a simulator and come up with a completely different list. Get experimental with it.

>>95935356
mix and match the opium Wars, Afghan and Warring States (Soon™) Kits from WGA to kitbash some Cathay models

>wait until everyone buys Cathay
>reveal you aren’t doing any more units for them

>>95927726
>1) How do we resist being turned into the kind of GW product farm that Warhammer 40,000 and Age of Sigmar exist as?

Don't play TOW? If you don't want new products play the versions of the game where new products don't have rules.

>>95935331
Cards wilth the spells for each faction's lore on them for quick reference in games of 8th edition warhammer. I think it will be hard work to make much since no one will want all of them at the same time for a bulk fee, so you are looking at $15-25 a pack going very slowly as the few interest parties pick them up. In total though they'd probably fund a batallion and journal at least.

>>95935426
In fairness the actual article is more like "hmmm this rule is like this BECAUSE PERHAPS MORE IS COMING IN THE FUTURE? WOULDN'T THAT BE NICE?".
They couldn't be more coy about new models coming, just not until 2026.

>>95934982
Why not?

>>95931752
Because if you price them different they'll be in competition with eachother

If I had a starter box that was $100 because it was cheaper to make and one that was $200 because it was more expensive to make, I'm going to lose money on the more expensive one because I'm incentivizing people to buy the cheaper one. Instead I would price them the same somewhere in between so that I'm driving sales equally and the lower margin on the one that's more expensive to make is offset by the one with a larger margin.

>>95935443
Yeah, they had to temper people's expectations about the second journal after announcing it so lightly

>>95931752
The old models are priced that high because it's the most they can feel like asking for those old models

Cathay is priced that low despite being all brand new models because they were afraid people wouldn't get into the new army

>>95932347
>nobody tell him about brettonia

>>95935426
What kind of retard was expecting more? This is how they do things. Half assing armies is nothing new

>>95932383
Yes anon I'm sure it didn't appeal to you because you unconsciously knew that the armour is from and earlier time period than the empire despite not knowing anything about medieval china

>>95935528
>What kind of retard was expecting more?
The leakers like Valarak who actually got Cathay and its release window 100% right said there would be more units.

>>95935443
I honestly don't read it as that, more like 'maybe peasants wouldn't have these rules but we're not including peasants because that doesn't fit the cathayans in TOW'

>>95934230
Then they must of died of anaphylaxis considering how many are in TOW

anyone have any cool examples of vc banners

>>95935544
>valrak
Let me guess, you took his speculation as the gospel? Imagine believing slop tubers, especially a fat British fuck like him.

>>95935067
Okay? I'll just shoot it

>>95935589
No, that's the weird part. Everyone called him a retard for saying Cathay was coming so soon. But once he was proven right people took the rest of his statements as true as well.

>>95934982
Yea, could be a cool vc or tk army concept.

>tfw we gotta wait for a sloppa AJ2 for Cathay to release before we get literally anything else
>won't even be out until August or September at the earliest thanks to HH3e
first time since launch I've not been hyped for TOW

I think having hope for expenaded peasant/jade warrior options for AJ2 is plainly false hope considering they say the AoI is going to let you add empire troops to a cathayan force. They're just going to gap fill ranged units like that.

>>95935069
No, they're superb models but are very def historical scale, and design wise actual historical vikings would probably be better used as nordland state troops than chaos mauraders

>>95935662
another sprue of options that add crossbows and fancier helmets for the dragon guard would have been useful for the small roster

>>95935602
he was also right about the new heresy edition two years ago so he clearly has accurate info up to 2026, he also said Kislev is revealed on warhammer day this october and launches December.

>>95935684
Dragon Guard don't need new models, they're a unit upgrade. Just paint them in Imperial colours like the article says.

Crossbows and crane gunners would have been nice but they are not coming.

>>95935684
Yeah well gw would have wanted to sell you an entirely new, different kit to get you to have that option. This isn’t Horus heresy where you buy 1 kit and you ride it all the way through.

>>95935688
>he also said Kislev is revealed on warhammer day this october and launches December.
I hate to do this to you, but this really matters for me, so source?

>>95935706
Your Kislev is isolated in the balls of Putin and whoever the fuck is in charge of Ukraine. Go extract it.

Honestly thought this was a decent video breaking down Cathay's historical inspirations: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGr5ZBawDeU

There only seem to be a few missteps: one is having 5-clawed dragons outside of the actual emperor. And they have a bit of a schizo timeline for inspiration, but so does Empire.

>>95935718
>tattoos
VIDEO DISCARDED

>>95935250
>>95935210
I am sympathetic to no over fantasy-ing shit. Not into massively unweildy blades, extra arms and magic out the ass.
I mean normal ass knights and ladies with beasts they have tamed by the heart or by the blade. And it fits with the whole shtick of questing knights beating monsters, with the logical chivalric consequence of taking captuive instead of killing a noble (so probably not chaotic) worthty adversary. Also agree it not going too crazy.

>>95935730
You will be forgotten by history, old man. Body modification is the future.

>>95935733
You’re in the wrong setting

>>95935739
IIRC, zoomers get less tattoos than Millennials.
Seems like it was a fad that's dying out.

>>95935695
>Dragon Guard don't need new models
I wasn't talking about new models, I'm completely fine with them not getting a dedicated kit, I was talking about including 10 or so extra heads with fancier helmets onto a hypothetical extra sprue of crossbows to add to the box of jade warriors, so you could use the heads to make them look a bit more like dragon guard, or alternatively use those spare bits to turn the lancers into dragon guard lancers

in total war they have mountain armor and don't have the gorget, together with the yellow uniforms and the fancier helmets, but I don't think many would care if the tabletop version were just a fancier helmet and different heraldry

>>95935733
>ladies with beasts they have tamed
YJK

Evens I assemble Empire state troops today, Odds I assemble Death Guard vehicles today

>>95935688
>he also said Kislev is revealed on warhammer day this october and launches December.
Don't give me hope anon...

>>95935743
No im not. If there are demigryph and pegisus riders, I think there is room for a big lion.

Now if the lion had super powers id agree. Its on the level of Conan or tolkien, and in the orignial arthurian shit which is largely less fantasy then WHF, its not full on AoS shit.

>>95935688
>he also said Kislev is revealed on warhammer day this october and launches December.
where?

The Sky Lantern Crane Gun. Am I right that the Lantern can fire four shots of this per turn?

>36"
>Str6
>BS4
>Ap -2

>>95935805
Four shots of that, but a 5th BS5 shot too.

>>95935820
God damnit....Guess I am going to need to enslave a sorcerer to spam my magic missile 2dy Str4.

>>95935839
i think the crane guns are worse than the ironhail guns because if you take them you can't really leverage the mobility of the sky lantern at all. But if you just want a firebase then you can take them. They certainly shoot well into high armor stuff like knights and potentially some monsters, but it's not quite such a good deal as it is with ironhails and bombs IMO.

>>95935839
Also the lantern is T5 W7 4+, with a character on it potentially T5 W9/10 4+ 5++, so not that vulnerable to magic missiles.

>>95935850
>>95935856
My friend has gone a naked crane gun one but even still that shit can devastate my Chosen knights. I know it is a flying machine but can i still screen my knights with my dogs for a turn?

Nippon is inevitable isn't it

>>95935850
I think it's better to be shooting every turn and plinking off high value targets once in a while. But that's just me.

>>95935875
Probably not. They aren't in Total War, and China sensitivity team won't want them.

>>95935871
It's large target, so no

>>95935875
Not in the next few years for sure

>>95935894
Guess I could send my dogs in to attack in melee to tie it up.

>>95935891
They could allow it if portrayed as backwards savages who try to start shit but fail to superior Chinese discipline

>>95935876
I mean no reason you don't do both. It's really, really good as a skirmishing unit. Does impact hits, unbreakable, can disengage in combat and unlikely to be brought down in a single turn, shoots with 5d3 BS4/BS5 shots at no penalties, throws bombs at the same BS that do D3 or D3+1 hits, reserve moves with a big S5 AP-2 bomb, fires and flees, feigned flights, etc.

Like if you just want solid platform that fires off a few S6 shots that is fine and probably better into specifically like >>95935871 Chosen maybe, but the thing that collapse whole units if you push it up a flank. I genuinely think the sky lantern should be about 200pts upgraded, before characters.

>>95935911
It will kill the dogs and never be tied up in melee.

>>95935871
Now you begin to see the issues with Cathay. Wait until you play an army running 8 of these.

>>95935911
It can Stand and Shoot with no penalty. You aren't tying it up with dogs

Sooo big faq when?
No time soon?

It's so dumb that it's a heavy chariot as well.

>>95935935
some time in the next two weeks

>>95935936
I just realized it's Impact Hits are at -2 because of that
>Boop
>My armor is sundered! Bluurgh

>>95935923
>>95935928
To make matters worse, my friend is using the Headsmans Axe for his Shigengan general. At least he only has 3 attacks and lower WS

>>95935894
Haha what?
Large targets can see through units? You're kidding, right?

>>95935850
What's the point of the bombs given to the crew? do they shoot both the iron hails and the bombs? or is one just worth it for stand and shoot reactions?
I haven't looked enough into it to read the special rules, but I wonder how it's meant to behave

>>95935969
Enemy models never suffer To Hit modifiers for full or partial cover when shooting at models with this special rule.
In addition, a model can draw a line of sight to a model with this special rule over or through other models, and vice versa.

>>95935875
On the contrary, nippon is memory holed and sidelined for eternity.
With temple dogs stolen by cathayans and the mere idea of exploring nippon insulting to the chinese sensitivity team.

>>95935875
Tbh they should be chaos worshippers

It's just more interesting that way

>>95935965
Be grateful he’s not running the monkey king’s wisdom staff. Have you see. The rules for that?

>>95935980
They shoot both AFAIK.

Done with 10 halbers and an additional character

It turns out Nippon was merely a province of Cathay.

>>95936024
Man those Chaos Warrior sculpts are PEAK

To hell with this, I am getting a gogantic chaos spawn. I'm not going to lose to a stupid blimp!

>>95936024
I hate this aesthetic for chaos but I can't deny it's objectively cool looking

No skulls allowed gweilo

>>95936018
I shit you not, he has made a 1k and 1.5k army list and his 1.5k list has the monkey staff. Yes I have seen it. I have a sort of build to counter it.

>meteoric Iron
>Ogre Blade
>Daemon Flesh
>Daemonic Mount

5++/5++ with a 3+ to wound my general. It's not perfect but if he doesn't one shot me, I am almost certainly going to one shot him.

>>95936034
Bruh trying to compete with something that literally just breaks the rules of the game by playing the rules of the game is never going to succeed.

>>95936049
Well the real thing is spectral doppelgänger with the staff.

>>95936049
>>95936064
Yeah, it's less the weapon itself and more that Cathay has a lvl4 combat sorcerer with access to Illusion
WoC would kill for that and it's why the Skaven Felblade with Bell was nerfed

>>95936055
What can I do but try?

>>95936064
>2d6 Strength 10 hits with D3 Wounds
>on top of the 4 attack, strength 10 D3 wounds
>on top of the dragons attacks
>mfw

Might as well go all in fishing for 6s with the dragon slayer, and hope to god enchanted aura kicks in.

>>95936076
you can't afford staff + lore familiar though, so 1/3ed of games it's just a huge investment for for a very mediocre lord

>>95936077
ask your friend nicely not to bring the dumb fucking balloon to games or find some house rules to make it reasonable.

>>95935797
>>95935706
>>95935797
call it bullshit or ask in his chat in tonights stream but it was in his daily streams which he doesn't upload.

>>95936096
He does upload them you just have to go through the playlist for the correct livestream
So which one is it?

>>95936086
You can take it with plus 1 spell known so 83% chance of getting the spell. And Illusion isn’t a bad lore anyway.

>>95935936
Isn't it a pretty retarded idea to crash your hot hair balloon against a mass of pointy swords and spears?

>>95934931
spoiler
Same! But for all women, even before i met them.

>>95936086
True, but you can just do Ogre Blade+LF and that is pretty scary if you don't want to gamble with the monkey stick
Those games you do gamble and win though you have something no one wants to try and deal with.

>>95936109
No it’s really strong actually.

>>95935981
I knew those stupid balloons were going to be awful to play against. Nobody listened. Nobody listened!

>>95936114
Only thing my Chsos boys have is the Crimson Armour of Dargan but that then kills my armour. I guess I could also go the regeneration helmet too but combat resolution is a pain then.

>>95936096
it's ok, I believe you

>cathay, chorfs, kislev, all released in the same year
what a weird time to be alive

>>95936130
You know what they say

>>95936130
The 135pts is the real fuck you. They could cost so much more and you’d still play them.

>>95936151
it's because it's the most pricey kit of the release and they want you to be able to purchase 3 plus a sentinel

it's blatant and shameless

>>95936139
Chorfs are for AOS though.

>Jade Fleet AoI coming
>"but there are no other unrevealed units scheduled. It’s a very narrative journal"
So no rules for Yin-Yin ? Or they count the dragons siblings as "character" not "unit" and there is hope (at least for rules)?

>>95936169
I think the balloon is fixable with points but it needs a sharp fucking increase and it should be having to buy some of these special rules in addition.

>>95936189
They confirmed today no additional units and the AoI is about using empire units with cathayan ones.

>>95934908
This should have been the fucking matched play book they just released

>>95936189
All characters are units, not all units are characters. Just make up your own rules for this "Yin-Yin" fellow. You are not bound to the whims of Games Workshop.

>>95936188
Are you going to let a logo tell you how to use your bits?

>>95936106
>cathay does the one thing vampires had better
f

>>95936189
Nope, not getting anything, only generic narrative stuff, an army of infamy and some magical items

>>95936226
It does everything better than other factions except core infantry. And honestly I don't think 2 x 10 units of terror-causing jade lancers is even bad for core.

>>95935277
Your friend is a whiny little bitch and isn't going to build or paint any of his Cathay shit

>>95936214
no anon, GW needed to have multiple pages dedicated to wargaing etiquette and how to not be a crappy player to your opponent, along with pages telling the reader about how to set up tornements.

Gotta say I don't want Cathay to be nerfed into oblivion, except that I think the sky lantern and shugengans should obviously cost more. I want the other factions to be uplifted to this level of fun and power. The Monkey King's Wisdom is about right for the super-expensive magic weapon in your list: the problem is everyone else gets a crap expensive weapon, not that Cathay gets a good one.

>>95936241
why wasn't this in the matched play guide lmao

>>95936241
Considering how some grogs act, they probably did need the etiquette section.

>>95936238
Their core is still better than most core
If the match play scenarios are adopted jade warriors tankyness ppm will make them top tier for example.

Am I correct in assuming a steam tank will get rolled by any other behemoth unit?
I’m bringing a gigantic chaos spawn of nurgle against it. Poison attacks and regen 5+.

>>95936269
>>95936254
>>95936241
Because fuck you, you will buy it.
Also sorry we have strict 50 page limit on page covered cheap TOW books, sorry Arcane journals, to maximize profit

>>95936226
Vampire count with abyssal terror, ogre blade, level 3, and lore familiar has +1 s, +1 ws, +1 t -1 ldr, 5+/5+++ vesrus 3+/5++, lacks counter charge and impact hits, -1 wizard level, and the longma has better attacks than the terror

and the vampire is about 100 points more expensive

>>95936301
The stomp attacks average less than 2 wounds. You won't do much damage in return so it's more just going to be them grinding on each other. I think the odds probably favour the spawn if the steam tank doesn't get the charge, but they could just sit wailing on each other all game.

>>95936323
fucking lmao

>>95936246
Cathay isn't strong by any stretch, the infantry is sub-par and even Miao Ying is just an ok tier of dragon, basically on par with a warpfire dragon but no better.Maybe the journal could boost them to top tier but at the minute brets, TK and chaos will body them.

>>95936325
Ah. If it comes to it, I have chosen with great weapons and chosen knights with lances to kill it, but it’s nice to know I can just lock it down if needed.

>>95936331
I think they play really well into chaos but I agree about brets and tk. I think cathay displaces the current WoC position in the meta.

>>95936321
The Arcane journal format for TOW is odd since every other game besides Bloodbowl gets a hardback book format
wonder what made GW stick with the strict 48-page softbacks for TOW

>>95936331
Yawn the baits getting more and more esoteric. 485pt 2n1 level 5/3 wizard with strictly better stats is worse?

>>95936350
All the logistical shit for TOW was hashed out years ago and before they knew if TOW would be a success (remember, even though conSOOOMers shove down every piece of shit GW'SLs rectum shits out, the suits (who don't play and think the hobby is retarded) don't trust any product they release and keep expecting conSOOOOMers to wake up to the fact it's overpriced oil by products. So TOW was only authorized to produce books that would be cheap as possible, so they only wrote them to that page length.
More than likely with the increased scope the 2.0 books won't be so bear bones but we will see

>>95936350
>>95936389
Yeah I assume the under 50 pages thing is a print price point that they wanted to stay under to remain conservative.

>>95936350
I'd guess they know the first edition is practically a test run and for slow reintroductions of everything, so made a cheapish product to replace later in the second edition

>>95936357
NO GAEMS faggot detected.
Like every fucking game GW has ever released, specialized shit is better than a multi role unit because the multi role unit pays out the ass for all its skills but won't be using them all lost of the time. Miao is the same. You don't get all the magic ability you paid for if you are fighting as a dragon, and you don't get your great combat ability if you are a human. Miao makes it even worse, for her fighting at least, by making you wait a turn to charge.
She isn't horrible, in fact she is under costs for what those abilities on one platform would NORMALLY be, but the more specialized units, who are also cheaper, are better

>>95935069
Ignore the other guys, they're fine, I bought a bag of these a few years back and victrix stuff is closer to warhammer heroic scale than other historical like perry. The weapons are a bit thin but otherwise they fit in with warhammer minis just fine

>>95936331
>Cathay isn't strong by any stretch

>>95936350
The new HH stuff is also the same length it seems. Prob just a new order from management.

>>95936429
Yeah this is pretty pathetic bait
She's a level 3 when dragon form so you give up little, she's still way more cheaper than a dragonlord and lvl 4 wizard, and does way more. The simple truth is you're a pathetic WAACfag who's been trying to cope with the fact no one's going to game with this army and your WoC can't dragonlord it back. Go back to AoS or whatever tournament scene you came from.

>>95936442
>>95935069
Yeah I also got these guys. Their height scale looks good against older minis the only thing that looks a bit small are the weapons. Gotta kitbash them anyways since IIRC Marauders dont get GW but flails.

>>95936429
>>95936357
also if she's in combat she's casting less, there's a shittier version of doppelganger but that's it, and the healing from swapping takes her out the game for a turn. You could literally charge a load of swarms into her and stunlock her transformation disengage to put her out the game. She's also got no magic items options so that statline is all you are getting and she has nothing that dangerous to enemy dragon lords, who can often bring two for her price.

>>95936429
>high elves are the best army in the game according to anon
Even dragon spam isn't top tier. No, in. Gw game min maxing involves most of all points. Giant baloons, miao, cannons, sentinels, down to jade warriors are all undercosted for what they do. It doesn't matter that bretonnia has 1 list that no one outside the sweatiest of grogs will even have, the majority of players will always be at a pt disadvantage vs Cathay as is.

>>95936476
>dangerous to enemy dragon lords, who can often bring two for her price.
In what world are you ever getting 2 dragon lords for 500pts?

>>95936445
>boogeyman new army list gets a 4k list pushed in by skaven, the literal worst army of the game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4ET4mDWqRA

>>95936350
They're such garbage compared to the in-universe primary source compilations of Army Books. Here's hoping they fucking drop them for 2e or 10e or whatever

>>95936476
She's not casting less and she'll beat most dragon lords especially now with the changes to characters. I'm sorry anon you've been corrupted by watching batreps of shills for too long it's time to either go back to AoS or play normal fantasy games again outside of some event.

>>95936323
+1 t +1s is massive

>>95936493
>4k pts
>a serious game
Yeah.... and yoy gonna post the other 4 or so videos of Cathay steam rolling? Ofc not shill

>>95936207
>>95936219
>>95936234
Feels strange to have a Jade Fleet army not led by the Sea Dragon.

>>95936429
Weren't daemon princes really good in 8th ed precisely because they were both a good wizard and a good fighter in one neat little package?

>>95936525
Yin-Yin is still on the naughty stool after getting the rest of the fleet destroyed by some hurricane-chucking frogs.

>>95936503
>she'll beat most dragon lords
She will not. And she is casting less if you're using her in combat. NTA but the broken shit in Cathay is not Miao Ying, she's a legitimately good but skill-testing model.

Is is true that any shugengan lords decended from Miao Ying are white because she exclusively fucks imperial men

>>95936493
No one said his cannon blew up turn one and the other one hideously misfired.

>>95936537
Earlier threads had her beating out chaos (thanks to 500pt cap) wood elves tomb kings and 50/50 the bret lord (who depends soley on monster slayer rng). I think high elf was the only one winning consistently
For not that much more pts
I assume you are the retard that tried to say she beats orion?

>>95936546
No.

>>95936566
Sorry is beaten by orion?

>>95936507

Both are T6
Also Dragon Miao has 4+/5++, not 5+/5++ and has higher WS
I think anon is having a stroke

>>95936576
you did not read the posts

>>95935440
Many thanks Anon, I also found this expansion to some game, would guess it is a whole different thing right? Do you think there would be any buyers for it either? This one was 20 dollars too.

>>95936576
Also ASF which is a big deal in an army chock full of heavy caliber guns and high damage magic missiles to effectively 1 shot wounded enemy lords.
The shills are working so hard but flailing against the cold hard ground of normal play.

>>95936493
>4K points
>2 cannons
>2 lanterns

lmao, no, might as well have played only 2k points

>>95936546
No, only the children she had with Sigmar are white.

>>95936602
they are not talking about Miao retard

>>95936546
Empire men fuck their plain fraulein wives anon, get your head out of the gutter

>>95936609
Yet here you are shilling your little faggot brain out still not convincing anyone your faggot chaos dragon lord being nerfed is a bad thing

>>95936546
Hers are all elfgengan sired by Imrik

>>95936623
Anon the posts you're replying to are comparing vampire counts to shugengan lords as doppleganger platforms

>>95935856
Everything is vulnerable to viletide

>>95936605
wow you've destroyed me with logic anon, meanwhile one balloon downed by gutter runners, a sentinel jobbing to clanrats and jade warriors getting wiped by stormvermin later

>>95936668
Is viletide that strong? It’s only s1.
I’m bringing 3 shamans with viletide in my beastmen army. Is this bm?

Rolled 1, 3, 4, 2, 5 = 15 (5d6)

>>95936684
Viletide is super strong, but you usually combo it with the Hagtree Fetish.

Rolled 4, 3, 2, 5, 3, 6, 2, 5, 2, 4, 6, 3, 1, 3, 3 = 52 (15d6)

>>95936696

>>95935928
Only if it has the iron hair guns, the crane guns have cumbersome

>>95936672
I am not that anon and I did not watch this battle report, but how the hell did gutter runners manage to chase down a unit with Fly (8), let alone bring it down?

>>95936018
>They shoot both AFAIK.
Am I missing a rule or something?

Rolled 5, 2, 2, 4, 6, 2, 2, 3, 1, 5, 5, 4, 1 = 42 (13d6)

>>95936703

>>95936672
>all these examples ignore the other factors such a multiple rounds of shooting and damage plus charges
Really makes you wonder why someone would make statements like that.

>>95936696
>>95936703
>>95936718
So that was like a bad roll and it's still 3 wounds on the lantern.

>>95936109
It does only have the impact hits going for it in melee, it only gets like 5 ws3 str 3 - Ap melee attacks. And even then it's only an avergae of two impact hits at str 5. Any non-chaff infantry unit will be able to do more wounds back than it does to them, and charging means it's not going to be shooting that turn.

>>95936535
It was like 600 years prior to TOW era.

>>95936710
Everyone that plays on that channel is bad at the game.

>>95936696
>Hagtree Fetish
Oh, I have that on one level 3 shaman.

>>95936737
They're unlikely to kill it even if they're striking S6, and it can freely disengage from the combat after.

Do we have an actual source on Kislev in December? I need to know if I should wait to start a new army or not

>>95936628
I thought Yin-Yin was the one worshipped by elves, even the Dragonships are named after her.

>>95936737
>Anon trying to justify a fucking floating gun having at worst the combat utility than a heavy chariot
Hellcannons got done dirty

>>95936763
We just don’t know

>>95936763
Only an alleged mention by valrak on an non timestamped stream.

The guy ends up repeating his info on videos, so it's just a matter of time before he makes a rumor video where he talks about kislev.
He did the same thing with chaos dwarfs.

>>95936715
That's a big reason to go for the dragonfire bombs then, maybe. It's still pretty good shooting but not as oppressive. Does this apply to the steam tank as well?

>>95936783
>>95936797
I see. No harm in waiting a little longer then. Thanks.

>>95936684
If you give the caster hagtree fetish it re-rolls failed wounds for magic missiles and keep in mind you're getting 5d6 hits

>>95936758
Unlikely to straight up kill it sure, but if you're coming out of a combat having done less wounds to your opponent than they've done to you, why did you even get into that combat?

WHERE THE HUMAN WOMEN AT

>>95936767
It's melee capabilities are bad to the point that you would never want to intentionally put it in melee to begin with.

>>95936915
you could say the same of the war wagon, which is 40 points more.

>>95936493
>4K points
>that few models
Tf are they spending the points on

>>95934956
US gets such a small amount of anything compared to UK and europe that this isn't that much of an accomplishment

>>95936915
>bad at melee
Yeah, it can stomp most light cav and flyers or at worst fly away from light cav both thing used to remove artillery...all for trivial pts. Really bad!

>>95936949

>>95937005
with an engineer*

>>95937005
extremely funny this is more expensive than the sky lantern

>>95937005
Got any fucking pixels with that book?

>>95927693
Is it the same as the one leaked a while back or has some additional info been discovered?

>>95936891
Here!

>>95936802
Yes. Tank has to decided if it's wants to use the Canon or the flame thrower.
The engineer on top can shoot either way

>>95936999
It can't, even against the lightest cav defensive stats it only does like 3 wounds if it gets the charge, 1 if doesn't.

1. how big is a skin wolf?
2. how big is a fimir?
3. any model recommendations?

i'm looking for a model to represent my possessed in my cult of the possessed mordheim warband, I have nightmaw but I think he's a little too big for a possessed
no, I dont want to use the large accursed cultists from 40k

>>95936096
>seriously shilling Valrak
I bet you’re the fat fuck himself

>>95937101
>only 3 wounds to light cav
>a s5 d3+1 ap-2 impact hits plus guns that arent cumbersome unbreakable baloon
And how much is it taking in return from the std 5 to 8 block of light stuff?
Are you paid by the ccp directly or through GW?

>>95936891
This adventure has them
https://dimandperilishadventures.itch.io/the-fimplication

>>95937157
You can't shoot and charge

>>95937119
Skin Wolves are pretty big as they're on 50 by 50 bases, Fimir are very dependent on the models you get, the old Heroquest models are much smaller than the resin Forgeworld ones that came later

>>95937226
No but it's another layer of defense since according to you it gives only 1 wound when charged.
It's retarded but hey you gotta earn your living somehow I guess.

Will you guys make bagage trains for the new matched play book? What are your ideas?

>>95937059
A preview of the MPB said they will release Errata around the same time. That is next week.

>>95937281
>beastmen
Basically take a Cart model print some tuskgor proxies and make it like shit (in a good way)
>wood elves
No idea desu some sort of artifact to be returned?

>>95937169
Anyone got a source on the models?

>>95937304
WE can just have a cart of some kind, 4th or 5th edition had Chariots
I guess you do some weird Treemen of burden.

>>95937332
it's the Dark Elder Slaves models GW made

>>95937332
Vect's slave girls

>>95937335
You could do some Treemen that also carries baggage for the Wood Elves*

>>95937354
Fair enough
Maybe some wounded magical beast being transported?

>>95937281
Was gonna make a cart just COVERED in my extra Tomb king skeleton bits. Like they're carrying replacement bones to the battlefield. That or an obelisk on wheels.

>>95937398
you should make it a boat anon, just like carts in Egypt.

>>95937436
DAMN that's a fantastic idea anon. Stealing it.

>>95927646 (OP)
Anyone know if there is a more rules lite version of WFRPG? In kind of the vein of OSR stuff BUT still using the base percentile system. Not just Warhammer "feels" but dnd, but Warhammer mechanics, but simplified. So you could do character creation and a 1 shot in a session.

wu, shu, or wei?

>>95937441
The new TOWRPG is very WFRP but more rules like, but it's not a percentile system and uses D10 instead

>>95937441
God I remember someone did a version of that a while back, I don't think I've still got the pdf but will have a look, I think I got it on the OSR general though so try there.

>>95937281
I have wanted an excuse to make for chaos warriors, the more wretched mutants of the warband too useless for combat around an altar maybe.

And for my vampire counts, I could easily make a model that pulls double duty as a cart/train. You need to be able to remove the model from the base anyway since the baggage train is terrain that you can move on, so the base size being slightly different isn't really an issue

>>95936979
I had the same thought

>>95936109
It strikes me as the sort of thing you only do once.
>drop the rice sacks! jerk off the firebird, we need to gain height on these unwashed barbarians!

>>95935688
>Kislev will be released during the month of Kislev
I feel like this is a joke.

>>95937579
What?

>>95937035
...if you phonepost learn to open long images on a new tab or use the "open original file" button on the top left options of the post

>>95937082
He said human, not wu man

>>95937742
I got nothing smarmy to say, thanks anon.

>>95937579
Oh it’s a jew thing. Funny coincidence

>>95937446
Chu, but Wei, Wu, Jin, Shu in that order

>>95937446
>>95937947

Assuming they bring skaven back in 2e, should I go for old clanrats now while they’re cheap on ebay or wait for the like to be launched from GW’s?
Are the older clan rats before AoS 4e the same as 8th edition fantasy?
Can I just use all AoS sculpts in general?

>>95938028
>Assuming they bring skaven back in 2e

>>95938028
The clanrat sculpt was updated for Island of Blood but a stand alone kit was released later.
Just get the cheapest clanrats available if you want them. AoS ones are actually smaller than the ones I have so they will definitely rank up

>>95938028
They made way too many Skaventide boxes for AOS as far as I can tell so you can get clanrats cheap as fuck on Ebay right now. Probably not going to get much cheaper and would only go up if GW brings back legacy factions. I don't even want to make a skaven army and I thought about grabbing some cheap clanrats lel

>>95938028
>Are the older clan rats before AoS 4e the same as 8th edition fantasy?
there have been a few kits of plastic clanrats, if you're referring to pic related then yes, they were the same as the models fantasy used for skaven at the end of the game

>>95938082
BUT, 8th edition also had these clanrats from the starter set who you'll probably find on the used market aplenty still and are effectively the same clanrats in overall style, with a few different designs and less build options (for example the shields come already attached and you don't get a choice of weapon for all models)
they were sold also during aos when the box got put back in production under the name 'spire of dawn'