Welcome to the Old School Renaissance General, the thread dedicated to TSR-era D&D, derived systems, and compatible content.
Broadly, OSR games encourage a tonal and mechanical fidelity to Dungeons & Dragons as played in the game's first decade—less emphasis on linear adventures and overarching meta-plots and a greater emphasis on player agency.
If you are new to the OSR, welcome! Ask us whatever you're curious about: we'll be happy to help you get started.
>Troves, Resources, Blogs, etc:http://pastebin.com/9fzM6128
>Need a starter dungeon? Here's a curated collection:https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/94994969/#95006768
>Previous thread:>>95911468>Thread QuestionWhat are your favorite mass-combat rules?
Want to contribute to the thread but don't know where to start? Use this table.
>1. Make a spell
>2. Make a monster
>3, Make a dungeon special
>4 Make a wilderness location
>5. Make an urban set piece
>6. Make a magic item
>7. Make a class, race, or race-as-class
>8, Make a 4-10 room lair.
>9. Make a trap
>10. Roll 2D10 and combine
>obsolete OP format
>no noob guide
>obvious astroturf after deleting three (3) legitimate new threads just to clear the way for his own shit
And yet 2e is still not part of the topic of this general. Astounding.
Anyway, here's the noob guide on the off chance there will actually be a noob.
https://diterlizzi.com/behind-the-monstrous-manual-part-9/
I stumbled upon this, and it's got a lot of interesting info from Tony DiTerlizzi about producing art for monster manuals. He had to do 100 pieces in just 2 months, which is pretty amazing when you think about it.
>>95929019Take it to the fantasy art thread, 2e is off-topic here as you well know.
>>95929019Yeah, this content doesn't belong here, this is trolling. There are several more appropriate threads to post about this in.
>>95928925 (OP)>What are your favorite mass-combat rules?I do it rough and dirty just by having low level characters and each of them represents 10x to 100x soldiers. It's not perfect, but it's supposed to be a broad abstraction anyway.
>>95929019I honestly hate his beholder art.
>oh fuck i need to shit but i have no asshole fuuuuuuuccccckkkkmkEven the goofy OD&D art is better.
>>95928933You've deleted THREE THREADS in order to make one without the n00b guide, you fucking piece of shit?
>>95928841>>95927824>>95928947Here's the n00b guide
https://pastebin.com/EVvt6P0B
>>95928995That's just a screenshot of the first page. The full n00b guide is here:
https://pastebin.com/EVvt6P0B
>>95929019Second edition is off-topic. Kill yourself, mod troll.
>>959292282e's just a better, streamlined version of 1e. It's not off topic. Your mom is off topic.
>>95928925 (OP)By this Poleaxe is preddy good. 4 pages, simple.
>>95929294Don't reply to him. No more drama.
>>95929019>tarrasque dong for monstrous manual
>>95928841>>95927824>>95928947>Three perfectly good threads have been deleted just so the troll could make his own without the n00b guide>Why are they afraid of the n00b guide?>Read it and find out for yourself!https://pastebin.com/EVvt6P0B
/osrg/ is about first decade D&D
/osrg/ will ALWAYS be about first decade D&D
So a simple monk for BX
Levels as fighter
WIS prime req
(Min 9 DEX?)
Weapons: spear, short sword, any blunt
Armor: leather
1d4 unarmed attack damage, up one dice tier every other thac0 decrease (7-9 d6, 13-14 d8)
Half penalty for fighting with both fists (-2 offhand)
>>95929357>monk>not budokahttps://youtu.be/Y2pjXeChsFs?si=Y0kL4r-v62WsM4XL
>>95929357>Half penalty for fighting with both fists (-2 offhand)Should also be -1 for main hand
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>>95929137>>95929159I use this wacky dude here as a mid-power stand-in for beholders.
Works as a regular OD&D Beholder but slaps instead of biting and the finders have the first 5 functions of the eyestalks.
>>95929634>I use this wacky dude here as a mid-power stand-in for beholders.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ih4auGvzw4A
>>95929634>cast Bigby's Grasping Hand>succesfully reach an agreement
>>95929169Some OSR systems have the gnome as a sort of thief-illusionist which frankly fits quite well
>>95929159Which one came first, this one or Big Trouble in Little China?
>>95929737Big Trouble in Little China is from 1986. It's not first decade, and not even D&D really, just a knock-off. Like 2e.
>>95929813It does predate 2e though Best to think of it as an Oriental Adventures module, IMO.
>>95929850Okay, fair enough, we can call it a grey area, unlike the Hickmanfagging edition that is clearly off-topic.
>>95929856Precisely so; we are in agreement.
IMO Big Trouble is pretty clearly not a railroad but a playthrough of a dungeoncrawl, with lots of shitty PC plans that work or don't work, unexpected spanners thrown in the referee's plans ("No! I *only* care about my truck"; "Hang on, but my character also has green eyes!"), weird inter-player arguments, odd sidetracks and so on.
>>95929294>2e's just a better, streamlined version of 1eThat sounds great, desu. How did your last session go?
I wonder what is going on here.
>>95928995>>95929202>>95929352>>95930239>FORBIDDEN KNOWLEDGE>The n00b guide has been posted in every thread for over a year, without any issue.>It represents this general's consensus on how to get start with OSR play.>Now, suddenly, three perfectly good threads have been deleted only to hide the n00b guide>Every comment mentioning the n00b guide is being deleted.>Why are they afraid of the n00b guide?>Read it and find out for yourself!https://pastebin.com/EVvt6P0B
>FUCK DISCORD
Yes, okay, but here we are. I've just created a "D&D1983" discord.
The following Anons are explicitly invited: Swissfag,Turkfag, DeathTaxBattleAxeFag, Reversefag, all the FAGfags let's bury the hatchet!, Pyramidfag, ObeseRaccoonFag, flaviofag, rhombicfag, Holmesfag, ChainmailFag, DeathTaxFag, CazzoFigaFag, HEMAfag, and last but very much not least the very wise and friendly OD&D grogs. Yeah, I know, some of you appear two or three times after different nicknames.
Also invited: All the other Anons I'm forgetting and all the other Anons who haven't made a fagname for themselves, but have helped keep this general alive and contributed to preserving its legacy, despite all the difficulties.
https://discord.gg/5aPDw7qR
>>95930386The jannies know that if people find the truth about OSR the board may recover from the endless bait and slop threads.
Is there an official biggest dungeon?
>>95930706published and playable, it might actually be arden vul
I'm sure there's some more ancient ones that rival or dwarf it in size but aren't fully published and weren't intended to be played by anyone but the creator
has anyone compile anon's spells and other creations
>>95930706The World's Largest Dungeon is probably the world's largest dungeon, although I think it was released for 3e. For OSR purposes, Arden Vul's so fucking massive I doubt it'll be surpassed any time soon.
>>95930771Eh, it doesn't look that bi-
>24 more mapsOkay that's pretty big.
>>95930808osrgcontent.blogspot.com
Unsure if pic related appears on there because it's very early.
>>95930824Arden Vul might be bigger than the WBG. WBG only has 16 pages of maps (though they are freakishly dense).
>>95930621>>95930824>>95930850Isn't Rappan Athuk bigger than Arden Vul?
>>95930850How the fuck did I turn WLD into WBG.
>>95930850Fair enough, I didn't do a deep dive into it, I just remember the book looking massive and the levels huge. But maybe I was just small at the time, kek
>>95930838thanks a lot anon
>>95930861The World's Biggest...? Glock? Garbanzo bean? Gagball? Globe?
Retard question, I've kept it Old School with my campaign but my players seem overwhelmed with the freedom I've been offering. They don't know where to go and seem overly cautious regarding dungeons. Is there still hope or do these niggas really need to be held by the hand? To be fair most of them are new to the hobby and two of them only have brief 5e experience.
>>95930862You might be right though. It's 840 pages long. And has an ocean inside.
>>95930850AV is also pretty absurdly dense, to be fair
it's kind of a masterpiece. if only the author wasn't such a bitch and let someone do a real layout for it
can't win em all, unfortunately
>>95930861World's BigGestdungeon
>>95930838These are neat spells except for the names, which are quite bad lol. Kinda random mish-mash of eponyms or generic terms or effects. I find it's best to stick with one category when naming.
>>95930827>central pit in the chasm has a tint indistinguishable from wallsWhy, in the name of Christ and His saints, would you do this, in an expensive work with solid production values?! How hard is it to just ask your map guy to do a cross hatch or some shit, FUCK
>>95930890They were all made by different anons, there was no theme or framework or anything like that.
Or, well, they were made by a bunch of different anons, at any rate; I remember writing at least three and I think a fourth is probably mine also. And they all use different naming schemes, kek
>>95930857Can't find much info on Rappan Athuk's size.
It says it's got 26 levels, which makes it one level more than Arden Vul, but the levels seem to really vary in size.
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>>95930923>It says it's got 26 levelsNo, it's got 50 levels in the base book, and then there's the expansions. The levels are much smaller, though, so it's hard to compare.
The n00b guide is still here, by the way:
https://pastebin.com/EVvt6P0B
>>95931036Stonehell has over 50 areas as well, by the way:
- 22 areas in Stonehell I, divided in 6 levels.
- 26 areas in Stonehll II, divide into 5 levels
- 3 more areas in supplements I and II (the Brigand Caves, the Nest of Otrogg, and the Sanctuary of Chtonia, not counting Modnar's Cellar).
- And then there's the Lost Level.
Mike's Dungeons has 117 levels: 78 in the original book and another 39 in the Deeper Levels book.
I have a trivia request you guys could answer.
Was the Banshee always undead?
In later editions (not even talking about wotc D&D, I mean BECMI and 2e) I think she is - in BECMI is an Haunt of sort.
Is there an older version? Was the Banshee undead there? I ask because while in popular "fantasy culture" it is, the original name means more or less "Fairy [mound] Woman".
>>95931155>Was the Banshee always undead?Noish. AD&D is a bit ambiguous on the topic: The MM says it's the "spirit of an evil female elf", that "returns to harm the living", but does not classify it as an undead, and the DMG does not list it amongst the undead in the turning tables.
Gary has explained on Dragonsfoot that they're not undead but some kind of evil fairy.
There's no Banshees in B/X, nor in OD&D if I remember correctly.
>>95931155Folklore is less strict about types than RPGs.
Vampires could be demons, Fairies could be ghosts and ghosts could be fairies, and some folklore just dumps any kind of spirit into a single bucket.
>>95931155Yep. Per the Monster Manual:
>The groaning spirit, or banshee, is the spirit of an evil female elf – a rare thing indeed. The spirit returns to harm the living.The Cleric spell Exorcise is also noted to kill them.
>>95931203>Gary has explained on Dragonsfoot that they're not undead but some kind of evil fairy.Huh! I noticed they didn't have an entry of their own on the turning table, but assumed they were turned as either spectres or ghosts.
t.
>>95931210
>>95929019>what's wrong, DiTerlizzi-kun?>could it be youre...>craivng my mcnuggies????
>>95931238Jesus Fucking Christ, that art is shit. Looks like a children's book.
>>95929228Even if you think the first decade line matters (and it doesn't), the 2e monster manual fits perfectly within the "compatible content" caveat of the OP, and 2E is derived content from 1E. Stop being wrong on purpose.
>>95931206>>95931210>>95931221Thank you. Part of the confusion to me is the Spirit vs Soul thing - wasn't it a thing in older editions? As if Elves had a completely different type of existence (perhaps a call to LotR) and no soul, but something else?
>>95931206>Folklore is less strict about types than RPGs.True, but the game kinda classifies the monster to understand a type. Now this is not as important as later editions, BARRING undead.
In Folklore theoretically the Banshee is not someone that died then came back - albeit older british tales connected souls, the underworld, ants (!) and fey.
>>95931254Kindly stop trolling by posting off-topic garbage. The "first decade" line is crucial for understanding what the OSR – the whole OSR – actually is.
>>95931249Guy had about a max of 3 hours to work on any pic. Sketch, revisions, pen and color included.
Getting some tasty shrub booty in that time is impressive.
>>95931221>>95931256>Spirit vs Soul thing - wasn't it a thing in older editions?Yes, it's discussed in Deities & Demigods page 10 and implicit in how raise dead work, but the lore is odd and its logic obscure.
Most demi-humans are unable to become most kinds of undead: Ghouls, Ghasts, Wights, and Ghosts are explicitly excluded. Although if I remember correctly there's times in which Gygax used the term "humans" to refer to demi-humans as well.
On the other hand, some undead can be created from demi-humans: Skeletons and Zombies for starters (although they're not true undead, only animated dead). Ditto Wraiths and Vampires.
>>95931276I don't care how much time he had, the result looks like crap out of a bad children's book.
>>95931302>children's book.Close! It's apparently based on a guy from a children's show.
https://youtu.be/LQ--TPrIYew
>>95931256>the Spirit vs Soul thing - wasn't it a thing in older editions? As if Elves had a completely different type of existence (perhaps a call to LotR) and no soul, but something else?As
>>95931302 says, the first rudiments of this idea appear in Deities and Demigods. In the AD&D core books there is no such notion, or if there is it's extremely embryonic. Elves are excluded from Raise Dead (and thus by extenson Resurrection), but so are half-orcs and all other monstrous humanoids; no lore reason is given for this. Moreover, they can be reincarnated, which implies that the elf must have some form of soul that can transmigrate. (One can also reincarnate *as* an elf, which is suggestive.) So this idea is really one of those things like the lich's phylactery which was tacked on after AD&D proper was released.
>>95931238>>95931276Regardless of the putative skill level, posting art from unrelated games in this thread is unwelcome and irrelevant, at least when it's not connected to anything being discussed. Please refrain from doing this in the future.
>>95931302Not every piece can be a+.
>>95931371>posting art from unrelated games in this thread is unwelcomeIt's not a game, even; I think they said it was a children's book? Either way, it clearly has nothing to do with D&D.
>>95930706Undermountain is actually bigger than most people realize. It has 23 levels (plus one "lost" level), and each level has more than 300 rooms.
A lot of it is left undescribed and not every level even has a map for it, but even just the 3 levels in the Ruins set is enough dungeon crawling for several months, if not years.
>>95930706I know there has to be an infinite dungeon somewhere.
>>95931726he's clearly talking about actually runnable dungeons and not nebulous "it's totally huge guys I swear ;) I'll show you mine if you show me yours first" dungeons that are just collections of tables
>>95931726Neverwinter Nights has a module called Infinite Dungeon if someone has it (I don't) he or she can try convert it to OSR
>>95932046Well there's an idea.
>>95932093It's worth a shot. Also its theme is pretty good. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi1bqhE1rSk&ab_channel=KlagmarVGM
I sentence /osrg/ to play through The Forest Oracle on repeat for all time
>>95932458>a whole MM filled with shit like thisImagine.
>>95932136Has anyone here played that?
>>95930923Rappan Athuk is difficult to measure because it had multiple versions and many expansions, and the levels themselves have numerous sublevels. For example, just talking about the S&W version, there's Rappan Athuk, plus the add-on books Expansion Vol. 1 (they never made other volumes), S&W Addendum, Level 5D, and Level 7B.
>>95931249It's based actually
>>95930880Just straight up tell them
>exploring, trial and error, character death and the party dynamic changing over time is part of the game, don't worry about it so much
>>95930880plop them in front of a dungeon entrance. theyre in debt and the enforcers are on their way. if they cant pay they are dead pcs. freedom to explore the rest of the world is earned in the forge of the underworld. once they can pay their debts, then give them some a-roam time
>>95931265Not even 6 hours old and the thread already has (you) amount of trolling in it? OSR didn't start as the first ten years of anything. It either started with HackMaster which was based on the whole of AD&D which is in essence one system and not hugely different to basic, or with Castles and Crusades. Neither of those are first decade. I don't like or play those games but at least I'm wise enough to recognise that they heralded the OSR which predates your little first decade purity spiral falsehood.
>>95933206Then another six hours and one minute til you replied to stir shit up once again.
I am going to run my first chainmail scenario soon. We are just going to roll random fantasy armies using OD&D. Any tips of wisdom?
>>95933461>Any tips of wisdom?Make the artillery dowels.
No, but my main recommendation would be to thoroughly familiarize yourself with the morale rules. There are two separate checks (pre- and post-melee morale) that don't work the same way and it's not necessairly intuitive to modern wargamers.
>>95933206It's funny, because Hackmaster marketed itself as a parody in order to avoid WotC copyright lawyers, and C&C had to be built on the d20 system in order to be protected by the OGL.
The OSR's early history is essentially "WotC won't re-release the old books so we need to creatively dodge copyright laws."
4rrq7o
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>>95935238>this loser getting upset by facts
observer
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A real man never speaks ill of DiTerlizzi
>>95933206Hey dumbass the Line in the Sand is very clearly drawn, either stick to it or find a new thread
>>95928933When was the last time anyone actually rolled on this thing.
>>95935262Please update your chat bot. Using the exact same broken English insults has revealed you time and time again to be a angry nogames ESL
eyeroll
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>>95936135>this loser STILL mad
>>95936155It's not really mad to make fun of you for speaking in broken English and only having a handful of stock phrases that you reply with
what is a simple way to account for weapon type in b/x initiative, the way large two-handed weapons always strike last, is it fair to give spears +1 initiative for the first round of melee?
I've heard of weapon type to AC modifiers but I haven't touched the PHB yet.
>>95936892>the way large two-handed weapons always strike last,That's a terrible rule and no DM in his right mind uses it. And if he does, none of his players who aren't complete idiots use two-handed weapons.
>is it fair to give spears +1 initiative for the first round of melee?You can go beyond that and apply the rule from Chainmail, OD&D, and AD&D (the real one, not the knock-off) that in the first round of melee attacks, attacks go in order of weapon length rather than initiative roll.
This applies both to charging attacks (on the charging round) and to closing to melee without attacking, on what would be the second round.
Remember that if you start the round disengaged, no charge = no attack. You simply can't declare a melee attack action if you start disengaged except charge or set against charge.
>>95936892>large two-handed weapons always strike lastThis is a rule made up by a limp-wristed homosexual.
>>95937032Alright, thank you, is that rule explained in the PHB? I haven't found anything regarding the initiative and weapon length in the DMG.
>>95937176Well, I didn't know, it's what I've found in B/X and OSE Classic rules.
>>95937176>a limp-wristed homosexualWhich one? Gygax? Arneson? Moldvay?
>>95935582Yeah, doesn't sit well with me either
>>95936258cool twitter 'cap, ESL
>>95937580>>95935582it's ignorant cultureless zoomers
Simply allow 2h weapons to have an announced overhead strike that doubles str mod for damage and makes the attack Slow as written , otherwise they attack on normal melee init
>>95937386All three were well known for struggling with physical activities, with Gygax even being discharged from the Marines for being too sickly and nerdy, with his official discharge papers including an addendum that said "I had never seen a man composed entirely of corn puffs and soda pop before, and I now thoroughly regret the experience."
>>95937755>I had never seen a man composed entirely of corn puffs>Corn puffsWait.
Was Gary Gygax Corn-pop?
>>95936125You, just now! Let's see your urban set piece.
>>95937213>I haven't found anything regarding the initiative and weapon length in the DMG.You've missed them, but they're there. I've baked this infographics just for you, Anon. Enjoy!
If anybody has additional sources to include, please do tell me and I will add them.
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>>95936892Spears aren't considered two handed weapons, there's a reason you can throw them like a missile weapon. You just shouldn't let players carry them in their off hand though
The group I played with uses slow weapon rules though and applies it to battle axes / pole arms / two handed swords (not staffs) and house ruled it so you roll damage twice and pick highest
>>95938301Thanks, much appreciated!
>>95937747>>95938309Also interesting rules
>>95928925 (OP)Here's a q for all of you:
When a ghoul paralyzes a PC, do you describe him as falling to the floor as though he lost the use of his limbs, or is he frozen in place like a petrified deer in headlights?
>>95938640frozen, but the ghoul may freely tip him if youre cruel
>>95938640nerve-deadening paralysis, flopping to the ground like a ragdoll, all muscles lax, unable to move anything at all besides weakly vibrating vocal chords with no real control over the mouth. so you can wordlessly whisperscream if you want to, as they crowd around your downed form and dismantle you while you yet live, your vision slowly overtaken by their slavering, shadowed faces, saliva slowly dripping from a tongue into your slack mouth spreading the numbness until even your throat is beyond your ability to control. only the dim sensations of tugging and then release tell you the nerves in your limbs are torn free. you can see a dismembered arm that looks an awful lot like yours being munched on like a haunch of venison, but you feel no pain
>>95938711try typing with both hands, chief
Why has nobody posted the noob guide?
>>95938711masturbate before posting
>>95938906>replying to posts that don't even existThis is some next level schizoposting.
>>95938861>>95938890but I fucking hate having sleep paralysis and it isn't sexy at all
you're the ones that thought it was sexual
>>95938917Surely no one is actively monitoring this thread to prune posts they find disagreeable
>>95938917You are right.
Nothing happened in /osrg/.
>>95937857A giant arch monument, nearly 100 feet high. Fairly newly made, with fresh stone facades depicting scenes of conquest and larger-than-life generals and noblemen.
Hundreds of corpses hang down from it, with tatters of expensive clothes.
>>95938917Are you trolling, or are you actually unable to view deleted posts? Literally just use the archive or install ghostpost, newfag
>>95938933>>95938939this is no war in /osrg/!
>>95938917Did you know? If you just ignore him, he can't do anything about it.
>>95938957Special moditary operation
I've started using a different approach for random encounters than the usual 1in6, and I wanted your opinions on it.
>roll what the random encounter will be, note it down secretly. Don't use overloaded encounter stuff: all encounters are monster related.
>roll 2d6, note it down secretly
>Every dungeon turn reduces that number by one.
>Every noisy/reckless action (bashing doors and chests, some spells) reduces number by one
>When number hits zero, random encounter arrives.
>When random encounted is dealt with, roll for next random encounter and fresh 2d6 for countdown
Crucially it means that as a DM I am not surprised by what's coming. Indeed, I can subtly flip to the right stats or think about how the arrival of the enemy will occur. It also means that because it's pretty reliably (but not perfectly) about six turns between encounters the party will naturally want to hole up about every six turns and rest/barricade themselves in a strong point.
Things like torch burning are tracked separately at their own set rates.
>>95939041>not also subtracting one every time a player says anything that even mildly displeases you in order to subconsciously enforce obedienceWhat's the point of having all the power if you don't abuse it.
>>95939146Kek, but no. I tell players upfront when actions are noisy and even do the "that would cause a lot of noise, are you sure?" thing. Plus the players know that it's a 2d6 roll. They're allowed to feel the tension mount as it gets to seven and then eight turns with no encounter.
>>95938890If you're going to post it, post the link to the whole guide, that's just the front page.
https://pastebin.com/EVvt6P0B
>>95938890>>95939225Without the extra steps:
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/94900559/#q94900568
>>95929357Martial Artist is better.
Give it a combo/finisher feature at level 5 or 6. If the martial artist has hit the same target at least twice this combat using unarmed strikes, they may complete their kata with a devastating high kick. Slow, 1d12 unmodified
>>95939041This reads kinda like a cleaner version of goblin punch’s of the underclock, which I’ve wanted to try.
I think I’ll try this method next game in its stead. Thanks anon cool idea
>>95939252Goblin punch’s underclock*
>It starts at 20 when you walk into a dungeon. When it reaches 0, an Encounter happens.>You will periodically roll a six-sided Underworld die and subtract it from the Underclock whenever the party expends time or noise. Examples of actions that provoke an Underclock Roll:>yadda yadda He adds more rules and elaborations to it that convolute it even further , including exploding and progressive dice lel
Yours is much more elegant. One thing he does that I might try to work in though from your description it might not be necessary— he has a foreshadowing mechanic that happens about 1/3 of the time that colors the upcoming encounters for the players a bit, dungeon dressing style. Would have to play around and see how that would function. But yeah right on, stealing your mechanics anon thanks
>>95939305I do like that with the Underclock the players have a general sense of when shit will pop off since it's visible to them but it's still random. You get down to 5-6 and it's now within the realm of possibility, do you camp out and waste time or do you try and get a couple more turns. It definitely needs to be a diegetic thing within the dungeon though. I think placing the encounter roll at the beginning is a good idea, gives you a lot more lead up. You could have the players start hearing spooky noises when it's 5 turns away.
Any of you niggas use 2e ravenloft material in your games?
>>95939305Wtf? I invented a similar system for my (3mile) hex crawl.
>1. Roll 1d20, this is the countdown.>2. Subtract from this value on each hex moved, during the night, or once in the day if no movement>2a. You subtract 1 for plains, 2 for hills, 3 for mountain, etc>3. Wilderness encounter occurs when the countdown meets or crosses zero (0)
>>95939446I often do a Ravenloft game around Halloween. Skipped some years, but it's a semi-tradition.
>>959394462e is off-topic, my friend
>A wandering monster that can't hurt anyone if everyone just chooses to ignore it
Would this be too hard for players to figure out? What are some clues that could be dropped to help them out?
I'm thinking something like a wandering animal like a goat that definitely has crossed paths with the monster but is found completely unharmed, and if brought before the monster it just completely ignores it.
>>95939446please refrain from off-topic posting, anon.
>>959394462e is off-topic here; please take it to another thread. Thank you.
>>95939483>>95939595>>95939602but it's basically the same as 1e...
>>95939618Just don't reply to him, you dummy.
>>95939618Perhaps.
The major difference worth noting here:
1e is on-topic in this thread.
2e is off-topic in this thread.
I hope that clarifies things, have a lovely stay
>>95939639What about using 2e ravenloft in a 1e game?
reposting this potential new OP that anon wrote yesterday, perhaps we can get some discussion about it going in this thread!
>
Welcome to /osrg/, /tg/'s bastion of "Gygax-era" TSR D&D, third-party products (3PP), Retroclones, and "fantasy heartbreaker" modifications.
This thread focuses on games and content using principles, rulesets, and mechanics that rely directly on or cleave close to how D&D was set up between its initial 1974 release and the mid-80s. Some important core ideas:
1. Players are motivated via essential concepts like XP-for-Gold, not "story milestones", macguffin/MMO-style fetch quests, nor predetermined large scale plots that revolve around the PCs. This also guides the DM in his role as an impartial referee, not as a narrator.
2. "Character builds" do not exist. Player Characters develop organically, not via statistical selections.
3. To survive an uncaring, living world where the DM tracks time strictly and monsters wander the wilderness and dungeon halls, players should be relying on hirelings, logistics, and their wits to approach problems - which includes both parlaying and running away! Not every encounter is meant to be "won", and the DM is encouraged to use tables that have a chance - however small - of a party meeting something truly terrifying.
For a more comprehensive understanding of the thread culture and our approach to OSR, check the noob guide: https://pastebin.com/EVvt6P0B
As always, when in doubt, lurk moar.
Note that this means /osrg/ is intentionally more limited in scope than many other "OSR" locales online. If your preferred game system doesn't fit, there are often other threads up which are more appropriate, or you can start one yourself! Please check the catalog before posting >>>/tg/catalog
>Troves, Resources, Blogs, etc:
http://pastebin.com/9fzM6128
>Need a starter dungeon? Here's a curated collection:
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/86342023/#q86358321
>Previous thread:
>>
>TQ: TESTING!
Test Question
>>95939659As an honest answer, the main issue with 2e is its playstyle (though calling 2e "basically the same as 1e" is always a sign that someone never played 1e: there are definitely distinct and extremely important mechanical differences, which have been listed here innumerable times; check the archives). Ravenloft in general exemplified the railroady plothammer style that came to dominate D&D and marked the end of the original open exploration style that the OSR embraces; there's a reason it's often listed (along with the release of Dragonlance) as marking the end of old-school play. Which is why it's being repeatedly and correctly pointed out as off-topic.
thoughts on using dice to play osr games?
>>95939702While admirable, my main issue with it is that it's a) wordy, and b) an attempt to deal with someone who's fundamentally dishonest, immune to reasoning, and will just take this as the opportunity for a thousand further quibbles, misdirections, and sophisms.
Focusing just on a), I'd axe #2 and #3 as being non-controversial and broadly accepted by most everyone, even your NSR-style OSRites. 1 is the most important aspect, and the one you see the most deviation from.
>>95939659You're just gonna get a load of bullshit. Why are you even prodding the retard; it's almost like you're deliberately prompting him.
>>95939763>too wordyEdited down, I agree with your sentiment.
>
>
Welcome to /osrg/, /tg/'s bastion of "Gygax-era" TSR D&D, third-party products (3PP), Retroclones, and "fantasy heartbreaker" modifications.
This thread focuses on games and content using principles, rulesets, and mechanics that rely directly on or cleave close to how D&D was set up between its initial 1974 release and the mid-80s. Some important core ideas:
# Players are motivated via essential concepts like XP-for-Gold, not "story milestones", macguffin/MMO-style fetch quests, nor predetermined large scale plots that revolve around the PCs.
# This also guides the DM in his role as an impartial referee, not as a narrator.
For a more comprehensive understanding of the thread culture and our approach to OSR, check the noob guide: https://pastebin.com/EVvt6P0B (embed)
As always, when in doubt, lurk moar.
Note that this means /osrg/ is intentionally more limited in scope than many other "OSR" locales online. If your preferred game system doesn't fit, there are often other threads up which are more appropriate, or you can start one yourself! Please check the catalog before posting >>>/tg/catalog
>Troves, Resources, Blogs, etc:http://pastebin.com/9fzM6128 (embed)
>Need a starter dungeon? Here's a curated collection:https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/86342023/#q86358321
>Previous thread:>>>TQ: TESTING!Test Question
>>95939763>an attempt to deal with someone who's fundamentally dishonest, immune to reasoning, and will just take this as the opportunity for a thousand further quibbles, misdirections, and sophisms.Agreed. Also he will start claiming, in bad faith as always, that we've changed the OP and that 2e was on-topic with the current definition. "First decade" is already clear enough to anybody who understands what a decade is.
>>95939865At the same time, I do think it's a bit clearer for newbies. It doesn't hurt to try and clarify for actual new blood not intent on trying to screw with this place. "Derived systems and compatible content" is pretty vague, as even when we started using that phrase it was always followed by "though that doesn't include this, this and this". In that light, I support anon's attempts to rework things.
>>95938301NAYRT, but excellent post, Anon. Your infographics are always solid.
>>95938640Ghoul paralysis is a weird one. Chainmail implies affected enemies of ghouls are "paralyzed" with fear, frozen only in a metaphorical sense (but still unable to act), but by OD&D it's clearly some form of actual paralytic, which makes no real sense for cannibal undead to have. My belief is the change was provoked by the fact that the fear explanation kind of makes sense on the unit scale in a way it doesn't for a man-to-man scale engagement. With the above in mind I prefer the paralysis to be a fantastical, literal type of "frozen in horror": supernatural stark terror renders you immobile.
>>95939625nah thats you. Post about on-topic games pls
>>95939659What about playing 5e adventures in 1e?
>>95939041This is not at all a bad rule. I'd have to take some time to think out all the implications of it but off the cuff it looks better than most exploration-related houserules or even published rules variants in various retroclones. (Usage die, overloaded exploration die and Blumeian torch tracking, looking at you.)
>>95939305>foreshadowing mechanicI tend to do this more organically because I know what the approaching thing is and how far off it is. So I'll foreshadow a big beastie with noise very early, but I might not give much (if any) clue for sneaky goblins unless players are on extra careful watch.
>>95939702I agree with Anon that this is fundamentally a waste of time and also overly wordy. But also, "the mid-80s" is both factually wrong and will be taken as a further excuse for shitposting. It should say "the early 80s".
>>95940097Would setting it from 1974-1983 clarify the issue ?
>>95940127Sure, why not. Either way, you must be able to see though that "the mid-80s" implies a cutoff of '86 or '87 which is all wet? It definitely would be seized on that way by the resident troll.
>>95939558Puzzle monsters are dumb.
...except for the Astrosphinx.
>>95940097>>95940127>>95940160>
Welcome to /osrg/, /tg/'s bastion of "Gygax-era" TSR D&D, third-party products (3PP), Retroclones, and "fantasy heartbreaker" modifications.
This thread focuses on games and content using principles, rulesets, and mechanics that rely directly on or cleave close to how D&D was set up between its 1974-1983 iterations. Some important core ideas:
# Players are motivated via essential concepts like XP-for-Gold, not "story milestones", macguffin/MMO-style fetch quests, nor predetermined large scale plots that revolve around the PCs.
# This also guides the DM in his role as an impartial referee, not as a narrator.
For a more comprehensive understanding of the thread culture and our approach to OSR, check the noob guide: https://pastebin.com/EVvt6P0B
As always, when in doubt, lurk moar.
Note that this means /osrg/ is intentionally more limited in scope than many other "OSR" locales online. If your preferred game system doesn't fit, there are often other threads up which are more appropriate, or you can start one yourself! Please check the catalog before posting >>>/tg/catalog
>Troves, Resources, Blogs, etc:http://pastebin.com/9fzM6128
>Need a starter dungeon? Here's a curated collection:https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/86342023/#q86358321
>Previous thread:>>>TQ: TESTING!Test Question
>>95940246>AstrosphinxRedpill me on the sphinx of the stars.
>>95940358Truly a magical thread.
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/42262780/
>>95940385>50% congratulating the slayer, 50% arguing about the riddleSound's like /tg/ all right.
>>95940249Looks solid, but again be aware that it won't really solve anything. Thanks for your effort though. Here's a bullet point you can copypaste instead of those unsightly hashes: •
>>95938640>>95940042Piggybacking on this, does anyone have a good mythopoetic rationale for why elves are immune to ghoul paralysis?
>>95940456Elves have seen some shit, man. They're all centuries-old fighter-wizards, war veterans *and* used to plunging their heads into occult bullshit.
>>95940127>>95940249>how D&D was set up between its 1974-1983 iterationsYes, stopping at 1983 would be MUCH better, because it ends the year before the first Dragonlance module was published, cuts at the line between BE and CMI, and is also in line with the steep decline in AD&D material quality.
Even better, make it
>how D&D was set up in its first decade (1974-1983) in honour of the meme and to educate them on how long a decade is.
>>95940456Lord Dunsany wrote about how elves and other pagan spirits are distinct from mortal people by their lack of an eternal soul, just like in Hans Christian Andersen's Little Mermaid. They are eternal creatures themselves, and obtaining an eternal soul would force them to become mortal and eventually die.
One of his short stories, The Kith of the Elf Folk, has this central to its theme, with it being about a brownling living in a swamp, and she watches a cathedral from afar and wishes to obtain a soul so she can pray to God and understand the deeper beauties of life. All her brownling friends work together, and they manage to give her a soul. But, with the soul she is forced to move to the city, get a job, and be miserable, and she decides to give her soul away and return to the swamp.
A Ghoul's paralysis could work by attacking a creature's very soul. And an Elven soul could exist in a completely different state than the other races, distant and separate (until it's time for them to die).
>>95940420>>95940488>
Welcome to /osrg/, /tg/'s bastion of "Gygax-era" TSR D&D, third-party products (3PP), Retroclones, and "fantasy heartbreaker" modifications.
This thread focuses on games and content using principles, rulesets, and mechanics that rely directly on or cleave close to how D&D was set up during its first decade (1974-1983).
Some important core ideas:
• Players are motivated via essential concepts like XP-for-Gold, not "story milestones", macguffin/MMO-style fetch quests, nor predetermined large scale plots that revolve around the PCs.
• This also guides the DM in his role as an impartial referee, not as a narrator.
For a more comprehensive understanding of the thread culture and our approach to OSR, check the noob guide: https://pastebin.com/EVvt6P0B
As always, when in doubt, lurk moar.
Note that this means /osrg/ is intentionally more limited in scope than many other "OSR" locales online. If your preferred game system doesn't fit, there are often other threads up which are more appropriate, or you can start one yourself! Please check the catalog before posting >>>/tg/catalog
>Troves, Resources, Blogs, etc:http://pastebin.com/9fzM6128
>Need a starter dungeon? Here's a curated collection:https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/86342023/#q86358321
>Previous thread:>>>TQ: TESTING!Test Question
>>95940456They're simply unafraid of the undead due to a higher familiarity with the supernatural (you'll notice that elves in Chainmail are also superior at coping with a number of fantastic enemies which they can fight on the FCT, unlike other normal troops), or perhaps their own immortality.
The wider context for ghoul paralysis as a rule is that in Chainmail, wraiths (glossed as "Nazgûl, etc.") and wights (of which ghouls are a mechanically identical subtype) have the power to paralyze. These are the only undead enemies in Chainmail (3E adds zombies, as yet another subtype of wight which is worse but seemingly has the same point cost – clearly not the intent, but they overlooked rectifying this since the addition of the zombie is literally one sentence), which suggests that the paralysis is in fact the mechanical expression of normal troops' fear of the undead – Hero-types and wizards being immune to this paralysis together with the elves is a further suggestive circumstance. OD&D reducing this to paralytic touch attacks seems, as noted, like a quick mechanical kludge which doesn't really respect the original intent.
>>95940532Tolkien did that with what's her tits. Aragorn's fuckhole.
>>95940551This has been attempted before, you know. I just got here, so if that's already been covered, forgive me.
Every time the revised OP was posted, some janny ended up deleting it and replacing it with the current one.
>>95939446I think House of Strahd runs better than the original Ravenloft module. It's more fleshed out and more polished.
The original Ravenloft castle maps are some of my favorites though. Absolutely beautiful isometric floorplans. A bit hard to actually use, but absolutely gorgeous.
If I had the space for it, I'd have them tatoo'd on my back.
>>95928925 (OP)I heard from another anon that they found a simplified version of warhammer fantasy rpg here, does anyone have it/ know where to find it?
looking to do a one shoot to ease people into the general system before fully transitioning into 2e hopefully
>>95940746Please refrain from off-topic posting anon
>>95940746You talking about Warlock or Warpstar?
>>95940790Ignore him. He's just bitter cunt.
>>95940746The other anon's right that this isn't really on topic for this general, and we've had a lot of problems with off-topic trolling, but I'll answer in good faith: the only thing I can think you might mean is Small But Vicious Dog – you should be able to find it by googling. Be aware though that it's not really simplified WHFRP 2e, it's a D&D-ification of some tropes from WHFRP 1e and won't really work as a transition into WHFRP proper.
Anyway, good luck with your game and consider posting a WHFRP thread if you want to look at this more thoroughly.
>>95940793idk they didnt give a name. I looked into warlock, but it was d20, i was kimd of looking for something that still uses wfrpg’s native percentile system.
>>95940802His samefagging with himself is starting to get out of hand though. Hopefully a mod will come in and clear up his shitposts and hit him with a proper range ban for once.
>>95940806ah ok, like i said, not looking for d20, but have no need to shit up thread any more, thanks.
>>95940820You're not shitting up the thread, he is.
>>95940069While I would not go as far as using a 5e adventure I think you may be able to retool a 5e dungeon
>>95940820NP, again consider posting a thread just for this – you can literally just post about whatever you want on the board so asking a question like this in its own thread is fine. Then you might get a more indepth discussion of your options.
>>95940828There's actually a bunch of adventures/dungeons that are AD&D/5e compatible, as weird as that sounds. Not sure if they're any good, because they seem like the writer is just trying to try and make an OSR adventure but also to tap into the lucrative 5e market, but in theory there's nothing stopping them from working.
>>95940813Might be Soulbound, but that's AoS.
>>95940473I like this. I'm going to start classifying ghoul paralysis as a "supernatural fear" effect. The ghoul's claw does not have some biological paralyzing agent but instead chills the very soul of those it wracks
>>95940813wfrpg isnt osr you mongoloid retard
Dont you guys get tired of getting your cunts in a twist every time someone mentions an off topic game. You can literally just ignore it. Oh wait, you guys dont play any games and have nothing to contribute so you just feed the troll.
>>95941391how about you just post on-topic, troll?
What about something in the noob guide that explains why the staples of OSR are important?
>GP-as-exp
Incentivizes exploration, and encourages the players to pick their battles, rather than mindless hack-and-slash.
>Time tracking
Keeps the tension up, and forces the players to exercise long-term planning.
>Slow exploration
Reinforces the sense that the dungeon is an extremely hostile environment that must be approached cautiously and deliberately. Also prevents players from burning through content too quickly.
>Wandering monsters
Makes the dungeon feel more alive, and more unpredictable. Lets the DM be more impartial.
>Reaction rolls
Not every monster wanting to fight adds variety. Creates roleplaying opportunities. Lets the DM be more impartial.
>Morale checks
Makes the monsters feel more alive. You don't waste time playing out a fight that the monsters have clearly lost. Adds variety. Lets the DM be more impartial.
>Robust evasion mechanics
Players cannot possibly hope to beat every monster they encounter, so they will have to flee at some point. Rewards players for having an escape plan.
>Hirelings
Reinforces the idea that the players aren't the big damn heroes, and need help.
>No character customization
Reinforces the idea that the character is mass-produced and disposable, not a special thing you lovingly crafted. Makes character creation quicker (you're going to be making a lot of backup characters).
>No meta-plot
Overarching plots creates the expectation that the characters will live long enough to see a story arc play out. This directly clashes with the idea that most of the characters in OSR games will die unceremoniously (and quite horribly).
>High lethality
Adds an intensity and rawness that just isn't there with a safety net.
Then explain how 2e fails to uphold some of these principles.
>>95941709Something like that is already in the current version of the n00b guide, last two pages in particular. Did you not notice it (perhaps you were looking at an older version?), or do you think it's inadequate as it currently stands?
>>95941709Thanks for the suggestion, Anon, it looks good. I've rewritten some bits, removed some repetitions, and de-emphasised the lethality parts, they were a bit overstated IMHO. The current draft is below, I'll see if there's any feedback on it before actually releasing a new version.
[1/2]
## Why are the OSR staples important?
**XP for gold** incentivises exploration, and encourages players to pick their battles carefully, rather than mindless hack-and-slash.
**Time tracking** keeps the tension up and forces the players to exercise long-term planning.
**Slow exploration** reinforces the sense that the dungeon is an extremely hostile environment that must be approached cautiously and deliberately.
**Wandering monsters** make the dungeon feel more alive and more unpredictable. Applying the frequency of wandering faithfully rather than curating encounters keeps the DM impartial.
**Reaction rolls** make the encounters more interesting. Not every monster wanting to fight adds variety and creates roleplaying opportunities. The reaction roll procedure helps the DM act as a neutral judge rather than as the curator of a scripted experience.
**Morale checks** make the monsters feel more alive and adds variety to their behaviour. A precise procedure on when to make the checks helps the DM helps the DM be more impartial.
[1/2]
>>95941915[2/2]
**Robust evasion mechanics** are fundamental, because players cannot possibly hope to beat every monster they encounter, so the PCs have to flee regularly. They reward players who have an escape plan.
**Hirelings** reinforce the idea that the players aren't superheroes, but grow from zeroes to heroes and leaders of men, and need help.
**No emphasis on excessive character customization** makes character creation quicker, which is nice when you have to create a new character on the fly. It allows facilitates players running multiple characters at once. It prevents excessive attachment to a particular character "build". Making characters feel disposable (to an extent) brings the focus back on the world and campaign, as opposed to the idea that individual characters are special protagonists that players lovingly crafted with a plan for what they will look like at high levels.
**Not using meta-plots** is absolutely required to maximise player agency. Overarching plots written by the DM also tend to entangle the story of the campaign with individual characters, and opens up the campaign to the risk of being destroyed by a TPK, which in turn pushes the GM towards curating encounters and fudging dice.
**Healthy amounts of lethality** handled fairly by the DM not only add a degree of intensity and rawness that just isn't there with safety nets, they also reward good play, and make whatever the characters obtain through play in terms of treasure, experience, and domain building something valuable that needs to be earned rather than an expected handed out.
[2/2]
>>95940070>Blumeian torch trackingWhat is that?
>>95939755FOE Oldschool Enthusiast GYG Ye Gone!
>>95941915>>95941920I appreciate less emphasis on lethality, but I prefer the more succinct explanations of the previous anon.
>the players ... grow from zeroes to heroes and leaders of menI don't really vibe with this, but it's not inaccurate.
>>95942128>I prefer the more succinct explanations of the previous anon.Fair. Noted. Will do a pass later and trim down.
>>the players ... grow from zeroes to heroes and leaders of men>I don't really vibe with this, but it's not inaccurate.Can you elaborate?
>>95942139It might be that I generally prefer low-level play, but as a newbie reading those words I'd guess the tone shifts when reaching higher levels towards more heroic high-fantasy, which isn't necessarily the case. Just a pet peeve though.
>>95942171Personally I think comparison points work better than a descriptive list.
When you say 'Zeroes to Heroes' it means nothing.
When you say pic related, it takes a bit more time, but it gives a more rounded view.
>>95942171I'll be giving it a thought. I'm not particularly fond of the "zero to hero" turn of phrase, I've just used it out of laziness. I'm open to alternative wordings. But at the same time, I think it's necessary to say something about high-level play, particularly about domain play.
>>95942197That's excellent, but it's also long, and the current draft is already pushing ten pages.
It also discusses only a few of the mechanics that the original Anon wanted to provide an explanation for, which I think is important for a n00b who's coming from one of the storytelling editions and doesn't understand why we seem to fixate on specific mechanics instead.
Do you think you could rework it into something more pithy?
>>95942216>Do you think you could rework it into something more pithy?How about:
>Not Superman, but Conan - High level PCs are the great men of the setting, but they are still mortal. Well armed, well supplied and likely well protected by allies most the time, but in an even fight enough HD1 goblins could still overwhelm even a high level character, which is another reason henchmen are essential.>Independent action - Rather than following a pre-planned plot created by the GM, OSR focuses more on player action and choice, at early levels they choose how far to risk themselves in collecting treasure, at mid levels their choice on which rumours or ruins to explore will likely drive the action and at high levels they're going to be independently working towards their own goals. This places decision making in the hands of the party rather than them having external forces motivating them.Know what, fuck it, here's one I don't think people have said yet:
>Internal Motivation, External Power - OSR characters tend to be driven by internal motivation and gather external power, they become more skilled by levelling however their true strength comes mostly from the items and coin they collect, useful magic tools, rare spells, knowledge and followers are more important than the numbers on their sheet. This is in direct opposition to most modern games where Power is Internal as characters grow exponentially out of the reach of normal men, but motivation is external in that they still follow the plot of the campaign.Shit write up, hash it to pieces and reassemble as necessary. I do think that's the crux of OSR though, at least in my eyes.
Your character is doing the shit they want to do because having hookers and blow is better than not having it and while they'll never be able to bench press an Iron Golem, they might, at some point, get a magic fulcrum that lets them at least lift it.
>>95942216>That's excellent, but it's also long, and the current draft is already pushing ten pages.What about including a 'Solid examples of OSR' link to various screen caps and examples/campaign write ups?
Yeah it'd be a bit dick sucking-ish, but Appendix N is well remembered for a reason.
Examples are usually better than just telling someone something.
file
md5: 27f3f949646cca981fbbef83d05c38a0
🔍
>>95942482Just give up.
We have firm evidence of the /OSRG/ being fine with 2e discussion not just in the past, but in the present day. Not only that, there is no argument to exclude 2e that does not result in exluding other OSR games, rendering your insane fixation nothing more than a matter of ego and pride, not logic. You want to demand everyone accept your personal, limited, and completely incorrect definition of what an OSR is, and no one has to and no one is going to.
All your spamming, ban evading, and general disrespect to us (especially all your worhtless gaslighting. You do realize the archive is there for everyone to see just how ridiculous your shitposting has become?) just showcases how genuinely insane you are. You are more disease than person.
>>95942537This revisionism. Combined with the editorial take over is a strong indicator of the osr scene being dead here. It's all grift at this point. /osrg/ hasn't produced content in any quantity in over 5 years, an amusing but predictable decline of a dying dad and, enshitifcation of an indi area and consistent permanant online culture warriors like this faggot.
>>95942553>trying to gaslight us moreWeird that the decline in this thread correlates with your autism and attempt to terraform it via shitspam and harassment. Dig back some years in the archive, and you'll see not just plenty of wholesome 2e discussion in the /osrg/, but later your efforts to shitspam your views as if they were already widely held.
You're a freak.
Daily reminder that banning people for discussion simply reinforces that your narrative is incorrect
>>95942544Hey, where did my post go? And where did those other two posts just afyer blueman group pic go?
>>95942128>I prefer the more succinct explanations of the previous anon.Done. Cut down much of the stuff I had added.
>How aboutExcellent. Added it all in with very little change, in its own section called "On Players and Their Characters"
>>95942248>What about including a 'Solid examples of OSR' link to various screen caps and examples/campaign write ups?Do you have something precise in mind? I've got an empty third of a page in/after the FAQ section, so I could add something in there, but I don't think it'd look good (or even just readable) with a bunch of screen caps. Also it's not necessarily bad to have some empty space in case something comes up.
>>95942659Not sure what post you're talking about, but checking out the archive or even better installing GhostPostMixer can help clarify doubts about what happened in a few cases. E.g. you could see whether it was deleted as part of a chain of comments, which might indicate that the rule-breaking comment was not (necessarily) your own, which is often the case if your message was deleted but you didn't get a warning. Remember that we're not allowed to comment on actions from the 4chan staff, just helping you navigate the site better.
>>95942672Oh, there's room for a few lines on ACKS II in the "other noteworthy systems" section, if someone is up for writing something that doesn't go too over the board with the dick-sucking, and points out not only its pros completing sections that were left out of the OSR editions, mass combat, domain play, detailed magical research rules for new spells and magic item, other customisation rules but also its cons proficiencyfagging, weight and verbosity, spreadsheetiness, deviations from the OSR norm at points. If you don't add in that it's not necessarily the best choice as a core system, but it has useful compatible elements for most OSR games to steal, I will.
>>95942702Cool beans. Thank you.
>>95941915>>95941920I disagree with most of these.
Not fully, but definitely in the one-sided presentation that is clearly an attempt to try and rationalize why Sacred Cows must be retained.
Take XP for gold for instance. This is not neccesary for an OSR game, and the idea that other styles of XP turn the game into "mindless hack-and-slash" is pretty much a flat faslehood. XP and Gold being tied up with each other tends to lead to the actual gold economy/usage being thrown out of whack at higher levels, and ultimately is just an arbitrary and convoluted way of dealing out rewards.
One classic argument for why XP for Gold is superior is because it still rewards players for sneaking past an enemy rather than fighting it. Do you know what also rewards players for sneaking past an enemy rather than fighting it? XP for doing so, and you can actually tailor the XP to be appropriate for the challenge, so you can reward or disincentivize high risk behavior according to the tone of the game. Almost no RPG only rewards XP solely for killing monsters, so the "mindless hack-and-slash" idea sounds like it comes entirely from ignorance.
Sure, it affects the play dynamic to actually have to drag the gold out in order to level up, so the question of how far you're willing to go before you turn back has some extra weight to it, but consider that there are many options aside from XP for Gold that do something similar, ranging from training/master requirements or even collecting/spending "souls", and you're suddenly given many more tools to play around with.
Is xp-for-gold a core tenant of the OSR style? If so, why isn’t it mentioned in the OP? If not, why not?
>>95942755In general, the "staples" of OSR games, or rather the most common trends, each and every one, can and should be challenged, especially with the forms some of them take. Morale checks are a good tool to have, but many OSR executions of Morale Checks are incredibly flimsy and random to the point of being borderline comedic. Saying they help the DM be "more impartial" is just a set of weasel words to say "They take control out of the DM's hands", and that's not always a good thing, especially when the procedures being used aren't particularly well constructed.
I have no love for Sacred Cows. I do not look upon old rules and first say they're perfect, and then try to rationalize how they are perfect. I also do not demonize other ways of doing things in order to say that while certain rules may not be perfect, they're still the best we have. I like certain rules and themes, but I acknowledge their weaknesses and am open to alternatives, even if for no other reason than to see their own strengths and weaknesses for a fair evaluation.
I suggest you start doing the same.
>>95942088It's the idea of tracking torch duration by IRL time elapsed, which originated in the game of Brian Blume.
>>95942757It's not uncommon in OSR games, but I've found that it tends to be more of a signal that there's going to be other sacred cows rather than being a promise of fidelity or good design.
Look at Shadowdark. It's one of those games that superficially goes down a checklist of what's needed in an OSR game: Gold-for-XP, Torch-tracking, Races as classes, etc., and makes them all feel like they were "kept" because of grognards having argued they were absolutely neccesary, and not actually because the mechanics even fit the rest of the game.
>>95942757Strictly speaking, no, because a tenant is a person renting a parcel of real estate from its owner.
However, it is a core tenet and it's not mentioned in OP because A) we can't revise OP for a reason previously mentioned and B) it's in the noob guide.
>>95942755>>95942760Sabotage troll. Without the play style it's not an OSR game.
>>95942791Play style is flexible, you weird troll, and there's never been a unified play style among old school games, not even back in the 70's. The second-to-last thing anyone should do is try to claim that their style is to the one true style, and the very last is believing anyone that makes such a claim.
More importantly, you can play in an old school style without one or two or a dozen Sacred Cows. No rule is above consideration.
>>95942739Including ACKS in the OP is really going to cause a major fucking wobbly.
I wholeheartedly approve.
>>95942757>Is xp-for-gold a core tenant of the OSR style?Yes.
> If so, why isn’t it mentioned in the OP?It's mentioned in the n00b guide:
https://pastebin.com/EVvt6P0B
The n00b guide has been posted in the second comment of practically every thread for well over a year now.
>>95942825That n00b guide is complete trash and filled with lies.
What discord are you from, and why are you plaguing this board/general?
>>95942739>>95942811The proposal is NOT to add it to the OP, but to the n00b guide, where it's already mentioned several times, but without a paragraph describing what it is.
I'm against adding ACKS II to the OP.
>>95942537>We have firm evidence of the /OSRG/ being fine with 2e discussion not just in the past, but in the present day. Not only that, there is no argument to exclude 2e that does not result in exluding other OSR games>>95942569>Dig back some years in the archive, and you'll see not just plenty of wholesome 2e discussion in the /osrg/These are flat-out lies, and this was already proven to you a few threads ago. Nobody has ever discussed 2e here beyond an occasional disapproving mention, because it's both a shit game and off-topic due to not being an OSR game. Naturally, excluding non-OSR games doesn't require one to exclude any single OSR game and this is a bizarre fantasy on your part.
Consider at some point actually answering the question of why you want to be here, in this general, where everyone hates you, talking about games that are off-topic and which nobody likes either.
>>95942800>there's never been a unified play style among old school games, not even back in the 70'sOnce again, and for the millionth time, thsi is not even slightly relevant to the OSR, which is and always has been about reviving a specific play style for a specific game (D&D). No, you don't have to like it or play it, but then you're not playing old-school.
Again, it's very simple for you to not discuss these things if you don't want to. All you need to do is close this, the thread devoted to them.
>>95942825You've written that guide like you want to brainwash people who don't know any better, like some sort of faggot kid-diddler. Is there anything you do that isn't inherently repulsive?
STAY FOCUSED
DON'T FALL FOR BAIT
IceCream
md5: 9ef00918188d96983c3c05e419dac820
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>>95942861>which is and always has been about reviving a specific play style for a specific gameWrong. Completely wrong, and I'll explain to you why.
>a specific play styleThere is no such thing. Even just the raw vagueness of OD&D and AD&D rules demands copious amounts of DM rulings, which ultimately become a matter of taste and personal style.
No two DMs run a game in the same way, even if they both did try to strictly follow the same set of rules, and even if they tried to completely imitate each other. But, DMs don't do that. They all have their own ideas what's best, and that's no different for you.
You, however, imagine that you can tell people what the best way is, or what the "specific" style everyone is supposed to try and emulate. And, you are wrong, with and will always be wrong, because you don't even understand something as simple as what I've just explained.
You don't even get why OSR games have proliferated. You don't understand why someone's definition may be different from your own. You, frankly, are a complete fucking moron and genuinely autistic.
>>95942781I see, I'd never heard of it. Thanks!
>>95942544kek
>>95942895Again, you're the only person who doesn't understand what this thread is about. It would be incredibly easy for you to leave here if you don't like it; just close the tab and never return. If you don't understand that you're the autistic one, seething in the general for years while never discussing or liking anything in it, well ,that's just more proof of your autism. Hyperfixated.
>>95942866Why would you jump to pediphilia? Very strange behavior.
>>95942895OSR being loose is a big part of OSR. Every time an individual or group tried to tell people what "old skool" REALLY was, that would just splinter the community more. There's not even a concensus on what the R stands for.
I personally like Revival.
>>95942914>zero argumentsYup, exactly as expected from you. Now fuck off.
>>95942918>trying to take advantage of people who don't know any betterIt's an apt comparison. Preying on children and preying on newbies.
>>95942878We were doing so well...
>>95942914I disagree with you too. I disagree with your methods especially. You're kind of a total shitbag.
>>95942825The noob guide is correct, though. And the two actions you are talking about are qualitatively different. Quite bizarre, and insulting to csa survivors, to compare them. Why do you make light of sexual abuse?
>>95932458>Hey Appleloth!>what?>Nat 20
>>95942928I remember what old school games really were like.
They were a mess. Killer DMs. Linear railroad modules. Entire sessions with people arguing over supplies and rules and not even playing the game. Children crying in the distance...
OSR should be rightfully called OSRTG. Old School Rose Tinted Glasses.
I do like people wanting to make games better than they actually were. Pretending old school games didn't have plenty of railroading is a nice thought. It's wrong, but it's nice.
When I learned about the OSR movement in 2015 shortly after 5e launched and I was dissatisfied with the game, I distinctly remember there being an emphasis on experience for treasure recovered as a central idea to the movement. Perhaps it appealed as a repose from the story milestones of 5e but that was the biggest draw for me as a neophyte.
It is interesting to see how this definition has been altered over time with OSR’s mainstream adoption.
>>95943059What are some examples of this change?
>>95943046>I remember what old school games really were like.No, you don't. You just remember what *old* games in your area were like. "Old-school" doesn't just mean old. This has been explained to you, personally, many times. The old-school play style is specifically that originally intended by the game's creators.
Yes, we know that you and many others played wrong back in the day. Your experiences are not relevant.
>>95943059A good question is what does a "central" idea mean. GP as XP is something from the oldest editions of D&D, and that idea spread to plenty of non-D&D games as well, but ir's also absent from plenty of OSR games. I don't think it's a fundamental aspect of them, just a popular idea (largely due to it being something from OD&D) and one that retains a sense of "this is how we did it in the old days."
The weird thing is that OD&D introduced a "Killing monsters is how you get XP" system as well, and a lot of people didn't like it because they thought it was too limiting. The problem is that there's more options beyond "Gold for XP" and "Kill Monsters for XP", but a lot of the arguments for why Gold for XP is good only contrast against the latter, or against extremely weak systems like milestones.
XP for overcoming challenges is a common system in many RPGs, including some OSR, and something akin to that doesn't break the Old School style, and might actually reinforce aspects of it by giving players rewards for more than just getting gold.
>>95943124Wrong, especially because the game's creators didn't even have a specific style. Gygax himself waffled back and forth on countless points, and even contradicted himself constantly in his posts on the Dragonsfoot forums, which happened in a relatively short span of his life.
Trying to use the game's creators as an Appeal to Authority about the right way to play is pretty dumb for a wide number of reasons, but the fact that we have a good chunk of their opinions for easy reference greatly diminishes your hopes of constructing a religion and dogma, because we don't have a picture of some brilliant oracle laying down laws upon which we should all follow, but just some guy who frequently advised "do what you want, i just have opinions."
Even just comparing OD&D, B/X, and AD&D shows dramatically different design philosophies, and even just looking at the changes within OD&D shows that people had different and changing opinions on the game. How can you even pretend there's a specific style for all OSR games, when even just a singular game doesn't have a strict form?
>>95943191You're conflating "did not play exactly the same" with "did not have certain key tenets of play inherent in the rules they wrote". No one has ever claimed that people didn't have "different and changing opinions of the game". People here too have those same different opinions: that's what makes OSR D&D something worth preserving and exploring, instead of the same thing over and over. That Gygax changed his mind on weapons vs AC mods or how unarmed combat should work or the optimal number of polearms to put in a book invalidates only those specific items, not the basis of the OSR as a whole, which is why people have been able to form meaningful communities and discuss it coherently (at least, when trolls aren't attempting to pursue their agendas).
>>95943046You cannot escape the railroads, not even in the /osrg/.
>>95932136
>>95943191NAYRT but what the other anon is likely trying to say is that the OSR is not and has never been about recreating how people played "back in the day" — see seminal forum post “Five things that needed saying” (2009, T. Foster) — but rather using D&D's earliest iterations to inform a contemporary playstyle. Hence the "renaissance/revival" part of "OSR."
You're right to point out that it's misguided to use appeals to authority as a way to justify the OSR "playstyle", but the anon you're disagreeing with is 100% on the money that however any one individual may have played in the '70s and early '80s has little bearing on whatever that playstyle is or ought to be.
>>95943123The second edition of advanced dungeons and dragons
>>95943152If a rule at the core of the game, which is consistent within all original editions (there being only one alternative to said rule, supplementary at that), is not a defining feature of said game, then what the fuck is? The spirit? Is it the "spirit" of the game that makes it OSR? Please answer.
>>95943238>did not have certain key tenets of play inherent in the rules they wroteThey didn't. Even Gygax introduced XP for Monsters for OD&D in 1975 because, believe it or not, he didn't really have any idea what he was doing and all the rules were essentially placeholders until hopefully something better came around. XP for Monsters was NOT the widely accepted better idea, but it did demonstrate that XP for Gold wasn't some Golden Pillar holding up the game; it was even an idea Gygax clearly had some misgivings about, probably because it was one frequently complained about by players as being "too abstract/illogical."
B/X newfag (former 5efag) here, been browsing /osrg/ for a long time ever since I was looking for a handy system that helps me do a sit-n-go style adventure for a week of camping with the boys. That brought me to BFRPG because it was free and mainly because of the fast character creation. Fast forward a few years, I've been fully switching to Old-School and learning from the n00bguide and you guys (you're the greatest help I have got to run my games). The only mildly annoying thing here is the 2etard continously shitting up this thread but the real problem is the purist oldfags here that keep getting baited by it all the time and contribute to shitting up this general by feeding the troll. We all know mods tend to be actual faggots, so nothing to expect from them but please for the love of this general can we stop responding to the shitflinging 2etard? I think this would considerably increase this thread's quality.
Sincerely yours,
t. thankful newbie retard
>>95943272>have certain key tenets of play inherent in the rules they wrote>They didn'tIf you sincerely think that the original designers wrote a game with absolutely no idea how it was meant to be played, something literally no designer of anything has ever done in the history of game design, your delusion is so strong that no amount of rational argument can pierce it.
>>95943272That is one way to view it. The other is that gold for xp was a compelling idea, which it is, and a good one at that, but it felt wrong to have players fight monsters with nothing to show for it.
Why do these newfag trolls insist on dragging this thread down just because it doesn't conform to what they want?
>>95940456Elves are beings of pure mana, simple as. The ghoul paralysis is like a chi or chakra blocking technique, it stops the flow of mana in the being. But to the elf, you’re essentially putting a damn into an ocean. They got too much mana flow
>>95943260You subscribe to an fallacious and minor school of OSR thought, one that was largely rejected by the overwhelming majority of the OSR community. The K&KA forums were only a few hundred people at most, compared to the thousands on the Dragonsfoot forums who had a much wider and much broader appreciation of what OSR meant.
The Old School Revival started back in 2000 after the launch of D&D 3rd edition, and was largely trying to figure out how to bring back/retain Old School gaming when the biggest obstacle was that WotC held all the rights to all the editions of D&D, and were unlikely to reprint any of the older books (with the belief that WotC would not want older editions competing with 3rd). At the time, 3rd edition's release seemed like a death knell for older games.
The first major (and cheeky) breakthrough was Hackmaster in 2001, a game that skirted around copyright rules by being a parody, and parodies of material being protected by copyright law. The parody aspects were easily ignored, all the way to the latest editions of Hackmaster not even bothering to include any of them. It was a loose, rough game that was launched in its 4th edition as a joke, but it was some of the first new "old school" material in several years, with promised support.
The OSR was not called the OSR at this point, but the general sentiment was there, and it lead to Dragonsfoot slowly became a hub for a growing OSR movement, but one that was fairly splintered in opinions. By 2003, people were discussing an Old School Revival, but what it was and what it should be was divided among many factions.
>>95943537After Hackmaster, in 2004 came the release of Castles and Crusades, which used the OGL as a backdoor, essentially creating a d20 system game that tried to emulate older editions. It became a financial success and effectively opened up the gates when WotC did not even try to hit them with any sort of copyright claim. It was, of course, not universally popular, in part because of many compromises it made to avoid copyright claims, and some factions within OSR saw it merely as a proof-of-concept, and several other OGL-retroclones followed. From 2005 on, in part thanks to C&C's success, Dragonsfoot forums dramatically increased in size, and a faction trying to create a single, unified OSR definition that was rejected by the rest of the community decided they needed to split off and create their own forum and even their own games. This was the Knights and Knaves forums, and these folk made OSRIC in 2006, another OGL-compatible game, among other minor publishings. This group was fairly loud and had tried to spark a "civil war" on the Dragonsfoot forums, but ultimately turned out to be a very small group (less than a tenth the size of dragonsfoot) and their forums now lie almost entirely dead.
From 2006 on, the OSR history gets increasingly muddled, in no small part because WotC did end up re-printing older editions, the spread of PDF sharing became more prominent, and people had access to not just the actual old games but dozens of competitors existing in the same general space. The OSR grew, and definitions within the community that already started out broad became broader. This isn't something to be rejected or stopped, because the expanding definitions means further exploration rather than stagnation, and it's important to actually learn from the past instead of just blindly copying it or following some fallacious Appeals to Authority or worse.
>>95943461No idea. I mean, look at this thread from 2019 that was linked in the previous thread.
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/66285561/
People discussing 2e pretty normally. Even one guy asking for which to pick between 2e and OSRIC, which is kind of a stupid question but it does show what was considered fair play on the field.
It's almost like people were free and happy to discuss whatever OSR games they wanted back in the day of /osrg/, but some newfags came along later and just wouldn't accept that other people should be allowed to discuss games which they personally dislike.
>>95943585I mean, I have seen people here lose their shit about BECMI and it's still closer (XP and simplicity, as examples)
>>95943521Furthering this;
Elves are descended beings of air and water, whereas dwarves are descended beings of fire and earth.
Elven mana flow is boundless. Dwarven mana flow is bound, which is why they can’t use magic and ghouls can paralyze them.
Humans are divine embodiment (mana recreating itself) but often disconnected from their origination and thusly the arcane was born of man’s attempts to recreate their own origination in manipulating their inherent mana.
What are some good swamp or marshland OSR hexcrawls or adventure modules?
>>95943296>If you sincerely think that the original designers wrote a game with absolutely no idea how it was meant to be playedThe first printing of D&D didn't even call it an RPG. It was a "war game supplement", because Gygax and Arneson only had a vague idea of what the game even was. A good amount of what the game became actually comes from the Gen Con attendees who acted as unpaid playtesters, and the term "Role Playing Game" only came about when Gygax decided he wanted to try and patent the game concept and needed to distinguish it from war games.
The original D&D was an odd duck that needed not just itself but the Chainmail rules alongside rules/material from other games, including the famous Outdoor Survival map (and recommendations to use some of its exploration rules). The idea for the game was incredibly loose and didn't shy away from the fact that it was experimental and needed the DM to collect rules from other sources or create and add their own.
They genuinely had no idea what the game was, and that's completely understandable because RPGs at that point were still in a proto-phase where no one could accurately predict what they would become. Hell, Gygax barely understood the publishing business, and nearly lost the entire game because he didn't understand that the Tolkien estate held copyrights on things like Hobbits. Hell, the original cover of D&D was stolen art.
These were men fumbling in the dark, not carrying torches lighting the way. It's a miracle they got through the tunnel at all.
>>95943585off-topic, troll
>>95943585>>95943667off-topic trollposting
>>95943928mods rather keep that mental diarrhea around than people kindly pointing them the way out. Again nothing to expect from the mods but can everyone sane left stop engaging with the trolls?
>>95943252The railroads train has no breaks
>>95943124>This has been explained to you, personally, many times. The old-school play style is specifically that originally intended by the game's creators.Reminder that a portion of why arneson and gygax fought was because their playstyles and rules were too different.
>>95929137While I think that looks fine even the best artist have their flops.
>>95943667>>95943585off-topic and irrelevant trollposting
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>>95942739>deviations from the OSR norm at points
>>95943537>>95943548>mucho textoNothing you said contradicts anything I said. I get you might be eager to share your knowledge of forum drama but you completely talked past my point, which was
>however any one individual may have played in the '70s and early '80s has little bearing on whatever [the OSR] playstyle is or ought to be.which is the truth.
Now I fully acknowledge there is no one "OSR playstyle" but in the wake of the pre-OSR retroclone era no one gave a shit when some oldhead would say "well I played D&D in 197X and it SUCKED" as you are doing now.
>>95942739What shocked me of ACKS is the non-classical spellcasting.
The old fashion way can be annoying to new players but is part of the resource management.What a bizarre choice.
>>95944653The dance of the three legged OSR fan.
>>95944850FUCK JACK VANCE. None of the Chainmail editions have vancian casting and neither should've D&D. FUCK JACK VANCE FUCK THE DYING EARTH IT RUINED ALL FANTASY RPGS FOREVER.
>>95932458Lmao, good post
>>95944860First and foremost:
The "actual" vance spellcasting is not the traditional one of D&D, strictly speaking, so your "VANCE" spergout is pointless.
You can say "fuck vancian" not "fuck vance" if you don't want to pass for a massive sperg.
Secondly, people played for years with that system because, as stated, in its design it's thematically consistent with the overall resource management.
>>95944860Hi Macris.
You can say "nigger" here BTW, I think you will like that.
>>95944860Vance is a fantastic author and the memorization casting he used in some of his books is unlike what was used in D&D.
D&D spells are closer to artillery rounds than actual "Vancian" casting.
>>95944860How do you run magic at your table, anon?
>>95944860genuinely my favorite type of TTRPG casting is "relatively few spells known and X castings per spell (1 to 3 or 4) per day depending on character level vs spell level" because it means every spell will find a use and become a fun addition to a character and it axes the "what spells do you have prepared today, 7th level wizard?" bookkeeping entirely
the worst hands down is cleric casting where it's vancian prepared but you have access to the entire list, because that bookkeeping becomes absolutely mandatory to make sure they aren't bullshitting you and actually came prepared
>>95944850What shocked me is how amateur it all is. Seeing some people recommend it here only to encounter a "everyone rolls initiative every round" game with feats taken right out of 3rd edition with charts you need to roll 33 times on just to assign +1 or +2 modifiers is like biting into a wormy apple. I should have known from the cover art it'd be amateur, but I still ended up getting tricked.
>>95944923I don't. All my players are fighting men. I let everyone use scrolls, wands and staffs.
>>95944966I don't get why its domain or mass combat rules get praise.
They're overcomplicated and don't add anything fun or improve a game. It's the opposite of what OSR is supposed to be.
Even if I used ACKS I would want domain/mass combat rules from another system, prob just the ones in the BECMI players companion.
>>95945086>They're overcomplicated and don't add anything fun or improve a game. It's the opposite of what OSR is supposed to be.After criticizing the magic, I come to the defense here. Domains and commerce are BECMI-like.
Now I know many here consider BECMI "too far" to be OSR but out there this is not the case and many wanted that.
>>95945021Are bows sorcery?
>>95945193>becmi-likeExcept overcomplicated and they don't add anything fun.
A step back, not forward.
>>95944966Don't make fun of the cover art that's what made him start using ai.
>>95945198I let everyone use scrolls, wands, staffs, *crossbows and *bows.
>>95945216AI works when the guy using AI is willing to roll multiple times and use photoshop to composite the best parts and fix mistakes.
>>95944906I've seen this take before and it's always puzzled me.
Turjan memorizes a spell and it leaves his mind once he casts it. That's how D&D-style "Vancian" casting works, right?
Things changed with Rhialto and Sandestins but as far as I can tell there isn't much daylight between how magic worked in the first Dying Earth book and how it works in D&D
>>95944933>few spells known and X castings per spell per day depending on character level vs spell levelSounds neat, do you know of a game that does it well for you?
>>95944906>it's thematically consistent with the overall resource managementTrue, but not really consistent with the (more interesting, to me) theme of risk-reward: I'd much rather give MUs more spell uses and/or a way to replenish them mid-day, while making the consequences of failure more dangerous.
>>95945501NAYRT but level-less spell systems like Wonder & Wickedness work like this. Fewer spells, more uses (and use-cases).
Hello /osrg/
I've been on 5e ever since I was introduced to ttrpgs and I'm looking at trying out GM'ing OSR games. I have a couple of basic questions.
Firstly, how do yall pick one? There's a large number of them out, but my lack of familarity with anything outside 5e doens't inform choices very well - one did catch my attention, Worlds Without Number, and I am curious if anyone here has any experience with it or if it has significant problems. Additionally I am thinking more in the lines of how a system functions, since I always homebrew from the setting relative scratch.
Secondly, according to the intro:
>less emphasis on linear adventures and overarching meta-plots and a greater emphasis on player agency.
What does an OSR campaign look like? I've always ran adventure modules or written campaigns reminiscent of one. What does a greater emphasis on player agency mean/do for the campaign?
>>95945501shadow of the demon lord does it but it's not OSR. great game regardless
it could be done, of course. ripping its guts out and transplanting the casting system into b/x with great effort. but you'd be struggling to convert content that includes spellbooks and custom spells and the like, and you'd need to rethink magic research
definitely not a task I'm up for so I'll continue living with a standard vancian magic system I don't really care for, just because the rest of the b/x/etc is what I'm into. it's not like it's a dealbreaker, I just wish it was better
>>95945472A wizard memorizes one spell because that's about all their brain can hold. The most powerful wizards in the universe can hold at most three, maybe four.
But, they memorize ridiculously powerful spells that they hope can apply to just about any problem they might encounter. Things like perfect personal barriers or stopping time.
They're not meant for games. They're meant for short stories.
>>95945573>What does an OSR campaign look like? ... What does a greater emphasis on player agency mean/do for the campaign?There's a meme where an OSR GM does nothing, with any interference with the players making them the worst GM ever. But you're not trying to create a directionless void, but merely let them take charge.
First, you need to get your players on board. Just as you aren't sure what this playstyle means, you can't just hope that each one of your players magically intuits how to play this style of game. You need to have it clear in your mind, and then clearly explain it to them before the game begins. Otherwise they're going to fall back on familiar habit (i.e. 2e+ story play).
If you look at a lot of the early TSR modules, they were sites rather that stories. The idea is that the adventure is actually playing the game. You don't need to be prodded by the plot hammer to go and explore a dungeon: the fact that it exists (and that it has the gold you need to go up a level inside it) is enough.
Long story short, seed your campaign area with a variety of interesting places to go and explore, and then make sure the players are aware of them. Add in a few factions in the starting locale, and a few more in the wider world, and determine what their goals are, and determine how the players might become involved in any of that. Then hand this all to the players and watch what they do, with the idea that it's up to them to come to the table to play D&D, not you to con them into it.
This requires active players: guys who just want the latest fetch quest served up to them on a silver platter are going to be bored as fuck. Hence the importance of the briefing. Player agency then means that the campaign unfolds due to player actions, rather than the GM decreeing something (you can do that too--the GM isn't powerless or uninvolved--but it's not the primary director of action). You're not waiting to see if they do what you want, but waiting to see what they do.
>>95945573> What does an OSR campaign look like? I've always ran adventure modules or written campaigns reminiscent of one. What does a greater emphasis on player agency mean/do for the campaign?Create a starting town. This is the center of your new hex map. Fill in the surrounding 6 hexes with interesting stuff. Maybe a temple that has been abandoned because of a rumored haunting. An unexplored system perhaps in another. Maybe a few hexes away is a wizard tower or a fortified orc outpost.
Once you have your starting hex map, seed some rumors relating to the content you’ve just created. Maybe make yourself some general big idea notes; the far capital of the empire is rumored to be rebelling. The elves have abandoned this patch of woodlands. Lord Fartmaster is raising an army somewhere in the south. Whatever.
This is the basis for your campaign, your notes. Pop your players in the town and let ‘em loose. Remember the game now is about them and what they want to do. You have ideas to give them but they get to point you toward what they want impartially adjudicated. Maybe they want to take over the starting town. Maybe they want to head south and join Lord Fartmaster. Maybe they want to get to Poopoo’z Grave because of the rumored treasure horde there. The world is their oyster.
Now when they start doing about and causing shenanigans in the world as players are wont to do, you get to make sure the world is alive!
They ignore Fartmaster in the south? Maybe his forces bolster over the next weeks and they set up roadblocks. Maybe the orcs get Randy and leave their fort to raid the starting town. That cave that no one explored? Well the local troglodyte population has now outgrown its subterranean digs there and they’ve gone to war with a kobold Warren in the same system and there’s no peace to be found in nature! Whatever.
Also as you’ve played 5e, make sure you read up about the recovered treasure for experience play style!
>>95945678>Also as you’ve played 5e, make sure you read up about the recovered treasure for experience play style!As this concept will be foreign to you and your players, you’ll really want a firm understanding of the appeal. Your world is alive and not tailored to the existence of the PCs. They might have to haul treasure back from some very dangerous places. Or they might just have to cart a lot of valuables through bandit lands. Yes you can award XP for insightful and creative role play solutions, award XP for slaying monsters and whatever else you want. But gold for experience is essentially the player character’s score in this style of game. They score by bringing loot back to civilized lands. In 5e, as long as you show up and play and hit the story cues, your character will advance. In classic editions, you have to earn your status by scoring your treasure through wit, grit and skill. This is central to the OSR style.
>>95945664>>95945678I see... this is a huge departure from any idea of a planned story beat or milestone that the PC's accomplish, but still allows for plenty of structure and storytelling nonetheless.
If I can sell my players on it. I definitely have one that wants those silver platter fetch quests, and will actively tell me to pick up the pace when he's bored. But I like these ideas, particularly the hex map idea, that's super easy to chunk out movement and locations. And use a fog of war like in civ 5.
>>95945722>gold for experienceIs this exp in addition to the gold they might get, or is it a sacrifice in spending funds for levels?
>>95945722Man, quit it with your wanking.
5e isn't just show up and win unless the DM runs the game that way, and very few do outside of probably the scripted shit you've watched. It honestly doesn't sound like you have any practical experience with 5e.
>oh, you might not get experience if you don't cart treasure back!Wow, you really run hardcore games, very macho.
No wonder you need to make other games sound a hundred times worse just to pretend the way you play games is somehow better.
You're exalting something incredibly weak. Instead of talking about the wild and exciting shit of OSR games that comes from them being developed in the wild west period when common sense hadn't solidified yet, you exalt stuff that doesn't really add much to the game except inconceniences.
>Is this exp in addition to the gold they might get, or is it a sacrifice in spending funds for levels?
The gold they recover from adventures is their main source of advancement.
>Lord Fartmaster welcomes the adventuring party with a feast
>Over mead and mutton he tells them he’ll give them 200 gold a piece to investigate and bring back a fresh map of the Site of Adventure, two days afield
>they party says fuck yeah! Even fetch quest guy likes the job
>at the Site of Adventure the party gets lost because a tribe of industrious but tricky goblins have mined the site into a labyrinthine maze of corridors and niches.
>the party has to leave the site half unmapped because they’re running low on supply
>however at the site the party found 1800gp worth of loot which they bring to town
>they divide the loot, each of the 5 getting 360 gold and XP for their efforts.
>maybe Fartmaster gives them half the gold for half the map or maybe he wants the job finished
>if he gives them hold, they get money only and no xp for it as this was not treasure recovered from adventuring
Make sense?
>>95945799>Instead of talking about the wild and exciting shit of OSR games that comes from them being developed in the wild west period when common sense hadn't solidified yet, Like what, anon?
I’m glad you enjoyed your time playing 5e as well, anon. Thank you for sharing.
>>95945638I see; I thought you were talking about differences in scope, not in scale.
>>95945854Asshole monsters.
I've got a soft spot for them, even though most people/games rightfully hate them.
>>95945866>that cloak? It's a monster.>that chest? Also a Monster.>that wall? Monster.>the ceiling? Yep, monster.>the floor? Take a guess. >Also your magic items are ruined and you're also all six inches shorter.
Do your thieves have a thief language in your world, anon?
>>95945926The best part is that you could add:
>that monster? Nah, that's a gas spore. Make a save.
>>95945935>fuckin piece of shi-
What are some other good hexcrawling tools besides Appendix B, Wilderlands of High Fantasy and Wilderness Hexplore? My players hexcrawl in an unexplored jungle and I don't necessarily just want to roll for general terrain but features specifically for a jungle or mixed terrain involving jungles like bayous or wooded mountains.
>>95945926>That door? There's worms in it that'll crawl inside your ear and lay eggs in there if you listen to it.
>>95946214The gnome stew blog has a Bretty Gud multi part write up on hex crawling from 2012
>>95946214>>95946911The gnome stew blog post actually uses Welsh Piper’s hex crawl guide, found here
https://welshpiper.com/hex-based-campaign-design-part-1/
Also the hex flower cookbook might be up your alley as well
>>95928925 (OP)Is ShadowDark OSR?
If you know what elements a dungeon has and what the dungeon is before you generate it, how do you go about generating it? I think I'm just going to roughly position the elements I'm aware of on a blank sheet where-ish I think they should be in my head, expand those elements into proper rooms, and then just build around them with a standard stocking procedure.
>>95946943No, it is Nu-SR
>>95946957damn, I need to re-read this OP PDF again. 1970s BX American grammar really fuck with tiktok brain
>>95945198Borderline.
>>95945573Literally just play BX
>>95947058>Literally just play BXSage advice, anon!
>>95946943Yes.
Gold as XP, Torch Tracking, Races as classes, wandering monsters, no metaplot, morale checks, high lethality, black and white art, it's like the game was purpose-made to annoy people who try to turn OSR games into a checklist.
>>95947394It's just B/X for the 5E crowd yet even more worthless for running long-term campaigns.
>>95947394I'm pretty sure they drastically changed the xp values, such that it's incompatoble with any D&D modules. Also has hero points, which is maximum foe. Broadly, it doesn't elaborate enough on the procedures, which will ultimately lead to pleanty of GM handwaving.
>>95947498>Broadly, it doesn't elaborate enough on the procedures, which will ultimately lead to plenty of GM handwaving.Yeah: if the story of the OSR has taught people anything, it's that you just can't magically expect people to intuit what is to most people a completely alien style of play. And that goes double for a game that is expressly intended to draw in 5th ed players. You have to go out of your way to teach it, and it's a lot more than "lol just go in dungeons".
>>95947394No. Fuck off and kill yourself, troll
How to kill a general:
1. Use a sockuppet to make a bait post.
>>959469432. Post a samefag troll reply with lies and flamebait
>>959473943. Delete and ban everybody who replies, but leave the bait up.
Stir and repeat a dozen times per thread.
What do you think of the idea of making spider venom kill specifically by shutting down the lungs, allowing clever players a chance to save their ally by administering the kiss of live for hours on end? This happens in real life with the blue-ringed octopus, though nowadays we use machines to do the breathing for us. The idea came from the fact that mist spider venom paralyzes the prey, so if it kills it would probably be by shutting down the heart and lungs.
>>95948142>>95948496I usually just abstract poison to "you're dead", no details given. The problem with gimmicks such as yours is that they *could* be fine for one session, but then you're stuck with them and the novelty wears out fast, in my experience.
>>95948496I tend to agree with
>>95948518 I guess it could be fine if you use a gimmick monster that you're not planning on reusing rather than for a whole class of monsters: The MM is full of such examples
>>95945926However, when it comes to your specific diea I do wonder how fun the "keep giving the kiss of life for hours on end" situation would be in the first place. What are the players to do, exactly? The character can't be moved at that point, I presume, so is there any practical way out that you envision? The players can always surprise, you granted, but...
>>95948576Holy Mother of Typos. I apologise for the mess, I'm sleep deprived.
Just took a look at Shadowdark (free pdf).
It's nuSR at best like everyone was saying. The DNA is all wrong, has nothing to do with TSR D&D anymore by the looks of it. "Kiddie 5e", basically. It won't further your journey into OSR imo. But it will prepare you perfectly for playing 5e, I have no doubt about that.
Anyone who compares this to B/X in any way is ignorant or has never actually read/played B/X.
>>95948700>Anyone who compares this to B/X in any way is ignorantAre you new to /osrg/? He's not ignorant, he knows perfectly well. He's baiting, as explained here:
>>95948142He's been using the exact same trolling techniques almost uninterruptedly since 2022 at least. He's known as "2etard" and "fishfag". Search the 4plebs archive for more information.
>join shadowdark game as a "priest", am told that I am basically a level 3 cleric, cool
>That Guy joins as a "wizard" (he's not even level 11, wtf?)
>get into a fight scene vs. bandits on our mandatory escort quest
>That Guy has basically infinite auto-hit spells, pic related
>attempt to cast a cheeky Hold Person on their leader
>DM stops me
>"that's a wizard spell, I'm afraid."
>wat.jpg
>ask for alternatives
>"You may cast smite, a tier 2 priest spell"
>sounds cool
>look at the spell description
>1d6 damage
>better than stick whipping I guess
>barely scratches the enemies
>meanwhile that guy has webbed 12 bandits and has a roundly d6 damage over time spell going on the bandit captain
>they can't even touch him as yet another spell raises his AC to 18 or someshit (equivalent of AC2)
>I excuse myself from the table and climb out the bathroom window
Gygax wept
>>95948877Forgot pic.
Saruman has won, Gygax' warnings of Magic-Users running the game are but a distant memory now.
>>95948877You're shortsighted.
>priests go to heaven when they die>wizards go to hell
>S444X
>
>Welcome to /osrg/, /tg/'s bastion of "Gygax-era" TSR D&D, third-party products (3PP), Retroclones, and "fantasy heartbreaker" modifications.
This thread focuses on games and content using principles, rulesets, and mechanics that rely directly on or cleave close to how D&D was set up during its first decade (1974-1983).
Some important core ideas:
• Players are motivated via essential concepts like XP-for-Gold, not "story milestones", macguffin/MMO-style fetch quests, nor predetermined large scale plots that revolve around the PCs.
• This also guides the DM in his role as an impartial referee, not as a narrator.
For a more comprehensive understanding of the thread culture and our approach to OSR, check the noob guide: https://pastebin.com/EVvt6P0B
As always, when in doubt, lurk moar.
Note that this means /osrg/ is intentionally more limited in scope than many other "OSR" locales online. If your preferred game system doesn't fit, there are often other threads up which are more appropriate, or you can start one yourself! Please check the catalog before posting >>>/tg/catalog
>Troves, Resources, Blogs, etc:
http://pastebin.com/9fzM6128
>Need a starter dungeon? Here's a curated collection:
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/86342023/#q86358321
>Previous thread:
>>
>TQ: TESTING!
Test Question
>>95949473Dude, fuck off, the current OP is fine.
>>95949508Thank you for sharing your input, that’s what it was posted for
>>95949526Now follow that input.
>>95949586Same to you anon, have a blessed morrow.
What’s your most commonly used/favorite house rule, /osrg/?
>>95948877Why is a level 3 character fighting alongside a level 11 character?
>>95950356>Doesn't even know what a Wizard is.FOEGYG
>>95950367He said "i'm a level 3 cleric and the wizard is almost level 11" This is backed up by the rest of the story being that the cleric gets tier 2 spells and the wizard gets at least 12 spells total.
>>95950394>He's not even level 11Anon
Take your eyes out, give them a polish then put them back in and read it again.
>>95950118During PvP combat we literally measure our dicks to determine initiative order
>>95950394The joke, anon, is that “wizard” is an 11th level magic-user title.
>>95950601doesn't ring as a joke when the cleric gets a single level 2 spell and the wizard casts a dozen spells, showing off the level disparity in the story.
>>95950627I think you’re being dumb on purpose.
>>95949473I'm not sure about the core ideas, and I dislike non-ASCII characters. I prefer what
>>95942241 wrote, and I'd remix it as such:
>Internal Motivation - In lieu of the GM creating plots for the players to follow, OSR relies on an impartial Referee and pro-active players. The first builds an interesting world, the latter choose how to interact with it: which rumors to follow up on, which faction(s) to ally themselves with, and how much they're willing to risk in order to gain the necessary resources to pursue their own goals.>External Power - The PCs become more skilled with every level, however, their true strength comes mostly from the items and coin they collect: magic tools, rare spells, knowledge and followers are more important than the numbers on their sheet.>Not Superman, but Conan - High-level PCs are the great men of the setting, but they are still mortal: though well-armed, well-supplied and protected by allies, the reckless player might see his endgame character meet his demise against crafty mooks.I'd also like to put in something about resource and time management, among other things, but for now I'm quite content with these.
>>95950635no u. A cleric that can cast a simgle level 2 spell is always going to be much lower level than a wizard who can cast dozens of spells, regardless of the edition of the game.
>>95950659Yeah time and resource management. Like wisely using your time to accrue the gold resource from dangerous locales and return it to the safety of civilization for the monetary reward of the resource itself and converting shares of reward into experiential reward so that the player characters have a scores sense of progression that is not arbitrarily left only to referee awarding experience as seen fit.
Integral to the experience.
>>95950699a scored* sense of progression
>>95950699Odd post, but yes.
>>95950659You're mistaking a proposal for things to add to a small section of the n00b guide, that is ten pages, with a proposal for the OP of the thread to be used as a definition of what /osrg/ is about.
What you've rewritten is too vague to be used as a definition of the scope of the thread and it focuses unduly on just one aspect of it.
TL;DR: No.
>>95950821Please, sincerely, fuck off.
The /osrg/ is about OSRs, no need to be a flailing autist about it.
>>95950821>What you've rewritten is too vague to be used as a definition of the scope of the threadLet's just use the wikipedia definition and call it a day.
>The Old School Renaissance, Old School Revival,[1] or OSR is a play style movement in tabletop role-playing games which draws inspiration from the earliest days of tabletop RPGs in the 1970s, especially Dungeons & Dragons.[2] It consists of a loose network or community of gamers and game designers[3] who share an interest in a certain style of play and set of game design principles.[4]Hell, just the opening line is fine.
>OSR is a play style movement in tabletop role-playing games which draws inspiration from the earliest days of tabletop RPGs in the 1970s.Bam. Simple, straightforward, and no discussion needed.
>no discussion needed
yet endless circle jerking with 2etard shits up every thread
>>95951318Man, how do you not understand you need to fuck off.
ravenloft or house of strahd for my ose: advanced fantasy game?
>>95950554If there are women there do you measure their breasts?
>>95951318We don't really need any further discussion from you.
>OSR is a play style movement in tabletop role-playing games which draws inspiration from the earliest days of tabletop RPGs in the 1970s.I think it's fair to say that everyone can agree on that definition. Anything more specific just opens up pointless arguments like the one you're trying to start.
>>95951357HoS. Only thing worse is its cover.
>>95951373It's not fair at all: that opens the door to Runequest and Tunnels & Trolls and Bunnies & Burrows, and ignores the role of mechanics as needed in addition to the general play style. The OSR was expressly a D&D-based movement, not a "gee, suddenly every old RPG ever seems interesting in equal amounts".
>>95951570Man oh man, that's some good bait.
I was genuinely about to ask what your problem is with Tunnels and Trolls before I realized I don't actually care.
Tunnels and trolls is basically chainmail mass combat adapted to man to man instead of using the man to man rules. Also, their magic users are strength based. Which is based.
>>95950490>>95950394The joke is also that shadowdark (the quickstart rules) doesn't go beyond level 10.
>>95951774>Also, their magic users are strength based. Which is based.If I house-rule in STR-based muscle wizards into 3.PF, does that make it based?
>>95943537Hackmaster was licensed by WotC. It wasn't "protected by parody", they explicitly were given a the direct go-ahead. It's why KenzerCo can't reprint the old books, they are forbidden to do so and instead made their newer edition.
The original one is... possibly OSR? I'm not really sure. It's so complex and bizarre that few people actually run it for very long. That's probably part of why WotC expressly gave them the go-ahead - it wasn't seen as "competition" due to that.
But some of the supplementary material can be mined for content and it is IS a parody of 1e, mostly. The Gawds, Demigawds and Heroes book is the largest, most comprehensive tome of deities - with stats - that I know of which includes a ton of D&D setting gods, irl mythos, and HM-original ones.
>>95952531That would make you, the guy who houseruled the game, based. The game itself, would remain cringe.
>>95952506No, it isn't. FOEGYG
>>95952585>so bad WotC didn't care about enforcing copyrightBorderline genius.
The joke is that the words "Priest" and "Wizard" in the 2023 game "Shadowdark" by Kelsey Dionne are used in the generic sense of "person that does the miracle stuff" and "person that does the merlin stuff", but autistic pedants insist those words to exclusively refer to level titles for "level 3 cleric" and "level 11 magic-user", respectively.
The joke isn't actually funny.
>>95952585>possibly OSR? I'm not really sure. It's low level D&D made overly complex and with the parodic aspect. Not that great in my view, I know some people loved the supplement books they put out like Goods and Gear but even as a fan of Knights of the Dinner Table their Garweeze Wurld didn't do that much for me. (Kalamar even less)
Some neat art though.
>>95952991No, they were licensing it and were actually allowed to make original stuff. It's just that if they wanted to publish older products it was parody-only and had to be looked over and okayed by wotc employees which is what they chose to do.
In any case Aces & Eights is the real good game product imo. Shame their shipping options are atrocious outside the US and cost more than the actual book, which is already pretty pricy, or i'd own a hardcopy.
IMG_6272
md5: a1a6d49220514541764db81eaeaaf598
🔍
>>95953072But the cleric can only cast low level spells once and the wizard can cast higher level spells multiple times
Playgroup asked me to run a BX one-shot this weekend.
Any suggestions on what adventures or modules would be good for that?
>>95953713Starter dungeon collection (the OP one is the old 2.0 version from 2022 for some reason, this one is 2.1 from this year):
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/94994969/#95006768
>>95953713Keep on the Borderlands. Make sure they get the rumor about certain caves being way more deadly than others.
>>95953849Can that be realistically done in a single session? I heard it takes years to go through the whole thing.
>>95953713Depends if you want a campaign out of it or you really just want to run a one-off.
I'd just run a regular dungeon with a very abstract prep phase "buy and you start off at the dungeon" style and then expand it if they like it enough.
Maybe a puzzle dungeon like Blocks of Quox from Fight On 6 but some people hate those so ymmv.
>>95953862>Can that be realistically done in a single session?Probably not the whole thing, no.
>I heard it takes years to go through the whole thing.Utter BS.
spells
md5: cede44058e7aadb94f6f1deba3650644
🔍
>>95948877>>95948901Shadowdark is fucking broken. Web beats everything and there's no downside to spamming it. Light beats the gimmick and there's no downside to spamming it. Roll below your spell DC? Just burn a luck point! Even DCC holds together better than that.
>>95953072>The joke isn't actually funny.FOEGYG
>>95953713>BX one-shotAlso a bit FOEGYG. Any good adventure that comes to my mind I wouldn't want to waste on a one-shot. Should be something disposable. Maybe a tournament module? How experienced are the players? Can they handle high level characters?
>>95953877You really need to stop being so cringey with your faggyg shit.
>>95953894Oh no, 2etard is sad again
>>95953877>How experienced are the players? Can they handle high level characters?I've run BECMI/BX stuff maybe once or twice to them in-between longer running campaigns of other systems and one of them has played through BSOLO back when we were still in high school. Otherwise, not a lot.
>>95953907Not quoted but then I definitely wouldn't hand them very high level characters and adventures above 5th level. (but then again you're running B/X so that's basically not a thing)
There's few things more annoying than tourists "playing" Tomb of Horrors while understanding nothing about the game or how to play a high level AD&D character.
>>95953903You really need to stop being so cringey, period.
>>95953875>Mundane Missile>Boner>Greater ColonialismHMMMMMMM...
These might actually be good...
Would add the last one made my brain also spawn off
>Greater ColosseumWhich could be some kind of high level spell to blink everyone in visual range into a pocket dimension where two humanoid/demihuman/human targets fight to the death with conjured weapons and armor. The allies of each combatant are on opposite walled off ends of the arena.
If I want to take a character beyond the bx cap, I simply use the AD&D dmg to figure out the next experience level, correct?
>>95954093You can backport CM to some degree but it will take work as BE is a bit different from BX. The n00b guide has a little bit of info on it, it's mainly the thief progression that is weird AFAIK.
Can someone give me an example on what to describe to players entering a dungeon room as well as mapping it for a round. Let's say the room has a secret door hidden at some wall and drawers filled with items. The secret door has to be specifically found searching the 10'x10' area where it's located. But what about the drawers, they are not hidden and thus I'll mention them when they take a turn to map the room, right?
>>95954176The games have examples of play, B1 also has some explanatory notes on how to run things, as does the OG non-revised tomb of the iron god and a few other "starter" modules. Even if you don't use these there's still advice.
>>95954176They don't have to take a turn just to map the room: mapping is assumed to be automatic in normal cases, part of the reason why the standard exploration movement rate is so slow. As long as they have light and aren't moving faster than this standard, they can map. Additionally, they can always see the obvious in front of them.
So a group enters the room as part of their per-turn movement allowance, and you tell them what they see and smell and hear. Describe the obvious, leaving fine detail to more methodical searches.
Based on your thin description, I'd say, "you enter a X by X room. On the west wall is a chest of drawers." And that's it, because that's all that's a) obvious, and b) worth noting.
>>95954314What if torchlight doesn't allow them to see the end, or around a corner?
>>95954605Very common. In that case I just say something like "20 ft north there's a wall, but the east and west disappear into darkness". If there's a corner in view, I tell them that, same as if there was a door or some other feature.
>>95954635More troublesome, how to describe irregular caves, like the lower level in B1?
I'm not the original anon to ask about mapping btw.
three months ago I set up three factions with a leader and two lieutenants each within a city my players were staying in
all three of these factions have beef with each other. each lieutenant has different goals from the leader, and for each faction one lieutenant supports the leader and the other seeks to supplant them
this prep took me two hours to complete and was completely forgotten until the PCs bumped into it. I had no planned solutions, I had no "when X happens Y," I just had a situation with a lot of potential energy
I've been running the PCs handling negotiations and plotting and figuring out everyone's angles for the past 3 weeks after they finally started engaging with this part of the setting. all I need is this one page of notes on interpersonal relationships and goals. I spend 4 hours just drunk as shit pretending to be one of nine fantasy not!mongolian warlords or their right/left hands at a time
the only dice rolled have been for resolving random encounters in the city
the PCs want to assassinate two people, pit one group against another, and sell the city's security to the distant khanate (who is assuredly going to come to collect)
I feel like I'm whatshisass discovering gravity for the first time
sandbox play is the greatest thing in the world
god bless the osr. god bless the usa. I love ttrpgs again
>>95954093>beyond the bxYou are supposed to graduate to AD&D period.
Gary Gygax told me so in a dream (he spoke swiss german)
>>95954093>If I want to take a character beyond the bx cap, I simply use the AD&D dmg to figure out the next experience level, correct?Why would you want to do that?
Anyway.
The DMG definitely does not help, it doesn't have any information on that. You can look up the PHB, but it's not that straightforward since
- the level limits are quite different, and sometimes stricter in AD&D.
- the XP progressions in the PHB are wonky: for instance, in AD&D, at 750,001 the Fighter is 11th level while the MU is 12th, while in B/X the Fighter always requires fewer XP per level than the MU.
- Multiclass characters progress very differently in AD&D with respect to how Elves work in B/X.
-Spell progressions are quite different:l, e.g. the Cleric gets spells from level 1 and has a regularised progression with 3rd and 4th level spells gained at different character levels
- HD progressions are also different, with different HD sizes and cap on number of HD caps.
TL;DR No
>>95954142Yes CMI is a bit more compatible than AD&D, at least the XP progressions and HD are the same, but there's the Thief skills fuckery, and Cleric and MU Spell progressions were tweaked as well. So as you say it will require work.
>>95954176>>95954314>They don't have to take a turn just to map the room: mapping is assumed to be automatic in normal casesWrong. Picrel
>>95954605>What if torchlight doesn't allow them to see the end, or around a corner?Generally speaking, you give a first description of the room with what they can see from the door, and a second description when they say they enter room. Do NOT assume they enter the room unless they tell you, because there could be traps. And if you only ask when there ARE traps, you're giving away their presence.
>>95954870>how to describe irregular caves, like the lower level in B1?To the best of your patience and ability.
>>95932612Don't forget all the side dungeons that are included outside the main one plus all the areas on the surface.
Rappan Athuk is massive.
>>95931036 Only shows off how the dungeon itself connects with other areas. It doesn't show off the many side dungeons that can be found on the surface as well as their own levels. Plus the current 5e version has some extra entrances and areas now so that pic is also out of date.
>>95937796That's right Jack, before you were a twinkle in your father's eye, I was raiding Castle Grayhawk and rolling the bones with Garry and the Gang.
Gettting elected to the Senate in '73 made it harder to game but I'd still make it to Gary's table when the Senate wasn't in session.
>>95941915>>95942128>>95942241n00b guide updated to v2.10 based on the discussion in this thread. Thanks to all the Anons who contributed additional text and constructive feedback!
The links at
https://pastebin.com/EVvt6P0B
were updated.
>>95955435Cheeseweiner the caverns til I get it. Gotcha.
