Why did they ban the card instead of just redoing the art?

Stronger virtue signal to renounce both Harold McNeill and the card's mechanics.

>>95944527 (OP)
Reserved List. Which is also why banning it was low-risk, since it wasn’t seeing any play anywhere and couldn’t be reprinted anyway.

>>95944527 (OP)
Because they were smack dab in the middle of a controversy for their glass ceiling and needed to signal virtue. It worked, which is why they haven't bothered banning anything else using the same logic.

>>95944545
I was playing it because I had a boardwipe tribal esper deck and if I had no creatures as well creatures were double cost honestly didn't know the artist was a racist but was a fun card for degenerate games but it is what it is

>>95944545
>couldn’t
According to which King of England?

>>95944527 (OP)
Because it didn't see play and like the other cards banned were just easy virtue points to ban.

Artist for it is a skin head. But honestly that just makes the card more interesting from a historical point.

>>95944527 (OP)
I mean come on now, this is literally what it does. You really think they'd ever make a mechanic like this to support mono color blue again?

>>95944527 (OP)
Three reasons, in order of likelihood of what they'd admit to if pressed on the question.
1. Its on the Reserved list. They would have to reissue the card to redo the art and for some reason they still think the reserved list is a good idea.
2. It's not a good card that ever saw a lot of play, so even if the reserve list wasn't a thing it wouldn't be worth reprinting.
3. It earns them more goodboy points with the culture warriors who pretend to be games gournalists.

>>95947698
>It's not a good card that ever saw a lot of play, so even if the reserve list wasn't a thing it wouldn't be worth reprinting.
Doesn't stop them nowadays.

>>95944527 (OP)
Because it was a perfect storm of coincidences.

During the early days of Magic, there was basically no art direction. Artists were commissioned to do pieces; design team would turn them into cards afterwards. Sometimes the artist knew the name of the card, sometimes the color, sometimes nothing. Whether the name inspired the art or the other way around doesn't really matter. The art may invoke European Christian imagery, but an American audience only sees/knows Klansmen. The artist being a self-admitted neo-nazi doesn't help.

The coincidence wasn't that, though. Cards were entered into WOTC's Gatherer site in order of publication. Invoke Prejudice ended up with a Gatherer # of 1488. No I'm not kidding. For those not aware, 14 stands for "fourteen words" (a Hitler quote) and 8th letter of the alphabet is H (so 88 is "Heil Hitler"). The number has been used by nazis, for example in tattoos, to identify themselves to each other in more subtle ways than with symbols like the swastika (though there are more subtle "norse" alternatives there too). This would have stayed within those communities if not for two things. One, the general shitshow that the last decade of US politics has been, which made these things more public. And two, the ability to link to a Gatherer card page.

What happened was that nazis started dropping Gatherer links in online communities, some of which were used for recruiting into "more hardcore" places. That's the real reason the "Hateful Seven" got hit - WOTC could see traffiuc was using cards as coded messages, and decided to remove them entirely rather than dealing with potential controversy.

IMO this is stupid. I think the right thing to do about "bad" history is to keep it in the open, as an opportunity to explain why people thought it was good but think differently now. WOTC is in the business of selling cards, though. It's their call what to do with their property.

>>95947768
I see you don't play Jank Casual Commander, a format that is annoyingly popular in the Seattle/Tacoma/Olympia Washington area were most of WotC's devs live.

>>95947812
>14 stands for "fourteen words" (a Hitler quote)
It isn't, it's a David Eden Lane (neo nazi terrorist) quote.

>>95944527 (OP)
Lazy pandering to wokeists instead of actually thinking about issues. It's also why all the fucking companies for one month in a year change their logo to a rainbow flag. Easier to signal "we're with you, buy our shit" that to do anything relevant.

>>95947812
>IMO this is stupid. I think the right thing to do about "bad" history is to keep it in the open, as an opportunity to explain why people thought it was good but think differently now.
Based king. History and experience is just a list of errors that you never repeat because you know it's an error. Hiding history means we repeat the same errors our ancestors did.

>>95947859
>>95947812
this

>>95947844
You are literally calling it jank. I accept your concession.

>>95947652
If they reprinted it collectors would throw a collossal bitchfit, that is the whole thing that started the reserved list. Basically a bunch of cards they promised to never reprint because some fags were afraid their cardboard would lose value.

>>95947859
The art was also depicting Spanish inquisitors too, he's just trying to troll.

>>95948026
Joke's on them anyway, 99% of reserved list cards aren't worth shit today.

>>95948038
Spanish inquisitors don't wear capirotes, retarded anglx subhuman.

>>95944527 (OP)
Wotc staff is scared of an inch or two of cleavage now, so its par for the course for modern mtg. Personally? I just ognorebwhat they do or say now. I'm trying to find a 1v1 constructed format that doesn't suck but no luck.

>>95948025
>I don't have a counter so I will just accept concession and pretend I'm right
Post hands.

>>95948026
>collossal bitchfit
So? Some guy has a tantrum, so what?

>>95947682
The fact that by sheer coincidence its gatherer number was 1488 was also hilarious

>>95944527 (OP)
Because it's an ancient card that nobody actually used, and on the reserved list (by technicality, at least; in practice I don't think anybody would actually care if they reprinted some old bulk rares like this and Wood Elemental. The reserved lists cards people actually care about are the actual ultra-rare stuff like Black Lotus). No point in reprinting a card that sees zero use just to redo the art.

>>95948025
Anon that's not the point
The point is it's what the WotC playtesters and staff play, that's why their view of the game is so skewed, and why they'd rather ban something than figure it out.

>>95944527 (OP)
Because the point was to virtue signal.

>>95949349
These guys are some huge whales, so they appeased them rather then lose the customers
It's not like anyone was playing Invoke Prejudice even at the time either.

>>95947768
This card is a joke, though.

>>95947812
>IMO this is stupid. I think the right thing to do about "bad" history is to keep it in the open, as an opportunity to explain why people thought it was good but think differently now.
this decision doesn't stop that from happening, though; the history still exists, WOTC just made the choice to stop endorsing it

>>95950552
>depiction is endorsement

>>95950593
Many of the people who work there in the Renton offices honestly believe that.

>>95950319
Whales are addicts, they would pout for a week (if that) and then go back to buying their cards.

>>95952792
These aren't normal whales, they're Investors™. They're people who think speculating on cardboard is actually a great idea. If the reserve list goes down they'll do what investors do; panic sell and lose everything off their own retardation, and if the secondary market goes down therr won't be as many people buying collector boxes to dig for serialized Chocobos in hopes of making back their "investment"

>>95950593
>yes they had the KKK card displayed on their official website and no they hadn't banned it but it's not like they endorsed it or anything

>>95956260
I'm pretty sure the profit margin on a printed card will suffer greatly after a fat fuck on neetbux has a heart-attack from seeing his toy collection reflect its material value.

>>95949349
They /could/ end up in court for it, the promissory estoppel argument many make is in my opinion a load of bullshit but sadly that would still need a judge to rule on it and since WotC is a corporation, and corporations can't be anything but spineless by definition, they'd rather limit their ability to reprint cards foreveer than spend even 5 minutes fighting any lawsuit that they didn't start.

>>95944527 (OP)
Because Wokies of the Coast has been dead for decades.

>>95957668
yeah it will. this card would not be $270 and people wouldn't be burning through collector boxes searching for foils of it without retarded collectors hyping it up

>>95957893
Anon, while you can sue anyone for anything, the idea that you "invested" in a children's toy would result in you being laughed out of court at best, or fined for wasting the court's time.

>>95944527 (OP)
It's not just the art, people find the entire concept offensive.

Not saying whether or not them thinking that is appropriate, just pointing out the situation.

>Crusade and Jihad are on this "offensive card banlist"
>Army of Allah isn't.

>>95950330
I'm not fucking laughing.

>>95949349
They'll sue. They'll almost certainly lose their lawsuit against WotC, but they'll do it, and so Hasbro doesn't want to deal with it in any way, shape, or form.
Hasbro's legal team has said 'no', and thus they will never be reprinted.

>>95944527 (OP)
Because it made it looked like they were taking a harder stance than they actually were by banning a meme card that saw no play anywhere except for maybe a small handful of edh decks

>>95962282
You can't sue someone for "THEY RELEASED THEIR OWN PRODUCT WAAAAAAAHHHHHHH". Besides, Hasbro has fuck-off money and will stomp their teeth out in court.

>>95962282
Not to mention, it's a company policy, not a signed agreement. Did these whales sign anything, and has any company EVER been sued for this?

>>95963994
You can sue someone for any reason you can imagine. Hell, they could sue Hasbro for emotional distress because they imagined that they heard someone say that they might break the reserve list. It'd be thrown out immediately since no court awards speculative damages and they have no evidence, but Hasbro would still be out a lot of legal hours to show up and write their responses calling the other guy a histrionic retard in legalese.

>>95964210
You CAN yes, but not only would it be thrown out but you can also get fined or even jailed for wasting the court's time. If I sued my neighbor claiming his hideous paint job brought down the value of my house, I would be found in contempt because what he does with his house is entirely his business.

Same reason what WOTC do with their cards is their business. Can you cite ONE actual VIABLE legal threat from someone who actually knows the law? Didn't think so, it's just a tantrum and WOTC should reprint the power nine as a "lol. lmao even." to them.

>legal hours
Companies are throwing lawyers at things on a daily basis, this would be a teabreak for some of them. If anything they could use it as an easy way to squeeze some dosh out of them or even counter-sue for intimidation.

>>95947652
The Reserved List is backed by a contractual agreement between WotC and several large card shops.
The details of the contract are confidential but both WotC and the card shops have been forthcoming about the contract's existence.

>>95967419
Doubt.

>>95947692

>>95967419
The reserved List is not a good idea according to Richard Garfield. Also, magic cards should never cost more than $20.

>>95947682
>Artist for it is a skin head.
Based

I'm more pissed about Crusade. I did buy one from a store post-ban, but it was the new version with different art. Honestly fuck those fags I'm gonna put it in my white devotion commander deck and if they kick me out of the store I'll make a big shitstink about it and then say that my ancestors died defending the Kingdom of Jerusalem and were Ottoman slaves, then leave before the cops arrive.

>>95944527 (OP)
that was was understandable to get banned, pic related though has to be one of the most stupid decisions wotc has made in magic history

>>95968389
They shouldn't and we all agree, but we're long past that point and Hasbro isn't going to milk their biggest cash cow any less.

>>95944538
>>95945928
This is the real (((reason))).

>>95970909
No, Stone Throwing Devils was the dumbest, since not only was the card exactly what it said on the tin, but the alleged "Harmful racial stereotype" was one that most people weren't really aware of.

>>95976732
Second dumbest is NOT hitting Disruptive Student TBQH

Today, I will remind them.

>>95976732
Even as a literal reference, its flavor text is something like "sometimes the devils throw back", which means it's not about the people who practice throwing rocks at a devil proxy, but about devils returning fire. That alone proves it's not a reference to a dated and obscure slur.

>>95977039
I made the mistake of looking up a reddit thread discussing this.
It's distressing how they're able to justify this doublethink.

>>95976732
>>95978789
You guys clearly don't know, so it's time to learn.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoning_of_the_Devil
Every muslim is supposed to make a pilgrimage to Mecca (hajj) at least once in their lifetime. A part of the hajj is throwing rocks at devils. That card + that flavor text = "the muslims are the ones who are the devils."

Whether you personally agree with that statement or interpretation, WOTC does not. They've been aware of the issue since the late 90s. In an article about localization, WOTC mentioned they initially never thought they'd be printing Magic in other languages or selling it on other continents; if they did, they wouldn't have made things that become offensive when translated, like...Stone-Throwing Devils.

>>95979607
>"the muslims are the ones who are the devils."
based

>>95979607
Based.
but no, i think they're trying to invoke christian iconography and didn't understand the Muslim context.

>>95980193
>invoke christian iconography
Oh absolutely. And in 1993 there would be no other interpretation. But imagine you're trying to print Magic in Arabic in 2003...

>>95979664
>based
That's the problem. WOTC doesn't want someone to look at a 30 (well 25 then) year old card and think it's got a message to agree with. So WOTC just hides it and pretends it never existed. If no one can link to it, it might as well not be on the internet. And if it pops up in...let's say, "questionable" contexts, WOTC can say they've got nothing to do with whatever is being implied by whoever is sharing the image.

And now for a random bit of trivia. Did you know Stone-Throwing Devils was one of like a dozen cards that were never added to the mid-90s MicroProse Shandalar video game? The system couldn't handle hyphenated card names.

>>95944527 (OP)
Because effects which care about the color of an opponent's cards (much like symmetrical color-only effects) are considered jank

>>95944527 (OP)
always loved how the black robes makes them look like an evil version of the KKK

>>95985985
Now comparing this to the generic Zulu, the resemblance is uncanny

any time a company denounces something done 40 years ago for being offensive or randomly announces one of their characters is gay that usually means a higher-up got caught grooming a minor and they're trying to manipulate search engines and news articles into focusing on something that gives them good press instead

>>95986157
this, every single time

>>95985985
>>95986006
Why did you post the same image two times?

>>95970909
never understood why crusader stuff is bad now

>>95989787
They was rayciss

>>95969158
I've been playing a Junior Super Series Crusade in my King Darien deck ever since the ban and literally not ONE single person has ever complained about it in all these years. Just a bunch of comments about it being based or "fuck WotC." Nobody really cares, dude.

>>95989889
So are Muslims.

>>95977039
>>95978862
when all you think about is politics, of course the first thing you'll think of when you see the word "cleanse" is ethnic cleansing.

As daft as some of those bans were Wizards can do what it wants with its binfire of a game.

What seemed mental was people having their Ebay listings pulled because Ebay saw Wizards statement on the cards as meaning those cards promote racism/hate and items that do those things are banned by Ebay.

>>95990156
Yeah, no shit, but again Jihad was taken out to appease them from imagined slights after israel did nine eleven, not to remove something they did and do from history.

>>95977039
It's the rules text AND the flavor of the card that got Cleanse banned.
Cleanse destroys black creatures with the flavor of "Purging this land of unholy filth"
Virtue's Ruin destroys white creatures and says "Your heroes are dead"
It's why Mass Calcify can have "Destroy all non-white creatures" and be fine.

The real travesty is this Elspeth Vs. Tezzeret art getting banned in the crossfire.

>>95944527 (OP)
>>95944538
I met Harold McNeill once on a hot summer day in Seattle, you could literally smell his balls through his pants from 4' away

>>95995070
>Cleanse destroys black creatures with the flavor of "Purging this land of unholy filth"
Which is retarded. Black is the colour of necromancy and abomination.

>>95985900
>black robes makes them look like an evil version of the KKK
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Legion_(political_movement)