Heir of Aenarion Edition

Resources:
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WM: https://pastebin.com/EsDAgeba
WFRP: https://pastebin.com/inbyBsR6
Novels: https://pastebin.com/PFqPDr0H
>Warhammer Chronicles:
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>Time of Legends:
https://files (dot) catbox (dot) moe/q46ut6 (dot) zip
>The End Times:
https://files (dot) catbox (dot) moe/j7d0t5 (dot) zip
>TOW:
https://gofile.io/d/fxFgXS
https://www.warhammer-community.com/the-old-world-downloads/
>Alternative Models:
https://pastebin.com/xPeM9szL
>FAQ/Errata
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/wgp83jlw/old-world-faq-and-errata-designers-notes/

>Previous Thread:
>>95953194

>Thread Question:
What is your favorite army book/arcane journal cover art from any Warhammer Fantasy edition?

For me it’s the 6e VC art.

>>95961470 (OP)
>TQ
For 7 year old me it was this that got me into wargamming

>>95961520

This book had such lovely art. I really liked the one where a wight was rising from his grave and you could see ghostly female hands still caressing him.

>>95961470 (OP)
HE 6th edition

>>95961656
I respect that but for me it's the 5th edition one. Where it looks like a column of stars descending from the sky. HE in Old World aesthetically miss all that ethereal otherwordliness that HE's back in the day had.

>>95961561
Radical. I thought the 7e codex might have been a homage but there is no witch elf

Are ogres good mercenaries for Empire?

>>95960467
Post pics PLEASE, even if you have to catbox the titty pics

>TQ
6e Dwarfs, but it's not like I've seen every single cover so there's probably an army book that beats it but off the dome its that one

>>95961823
Which one? There's 2 6e dwarf books. The older one inside or the other where the dwarfs are outside?

>TQ
I wish wood elves had good art

>>95961470 (OP)
>TQ
the 7th edition beastmen cover will never be not cool

>>95961823
You're gonna be disappointed when they get posted.

>>95956055
They are defintely sitting on them if they already have painted samples.

For a 20 block of veteran state troops with the gryphon standard, would you run them in 5x4 or 6x3+2? Or maybe I could add one more guy and run 7x3?

>>95961823
Where'd the Amazon model come from? Ever since I played brutal legend way back when Ive had a thing for Amazons on giant cats

5x4 for sure

>>95961938
they got horde right? so I would bring 4 ranks, especially if you use gryphon standard.

>>95961989
meant for >>95961938 because of >>95961993. but I would probably bring more than 4 ranks.

are low armor poison units like witch elves and crypt ghouls just ass now? I can't really think of a use for them anymore

>>95962005
They really should have just made spider banner CC only. But yeah, half as effective now against tough stuff.

>>95961936
Oh shit, that looks sweet
>>95962005
And gutter runners/skinks/ect.

They won’t spike monsters anymore sure but for knocking out cav I’m sure they still serve a purpose.
For ghouls I loved a cheeky skirmish necromancer bunker personally.

>>95962005
>>95962022
so only legacy factions got screwed over.
doubt GW cares about them

>>95962046
Wood elves ate the most shit unintentionally. Legacy factions overall are looking stronger.

>>95962046
Wood elf(hagbane)
And a lot of night goblin stuff feels the burn too.

>>95962046
>legacy factions
haha, yeah wood elves are legacy...haha...I really hope GW gives them another arcane journal.

>>95962046
pretty sure chorfs, VC, some daemons, and by virtue of stuff they hate getting nerfed, skaven, all just got a nice boost

>>95962094
VC (and TK) can now Regen crumble losses. Don't know if that was intentional but it's pretty strong.

>>95962094

Regular infernal guard got more durable due to the parry bonus and other infantry buffs. If they also use blunderbusses, that makes them very good defensive infantry, as they get to stand and shoot without penalties.

>>95961470 (OP)
>TQ
Most of 4th, but this is my favorite.

>>95961878
Maybe so, but I'd rather hope to see some cool Amazons models

>>95961827
The second one I think

>>95961470 (OP)
>TQ

>>95961470 (OP)
TQ: Cathay

I wish Mortis Engines didnt look like shit

>>95962187
This one?

>>95962224
Vampire counts all look like shit

>>95962233
>that one fag who constantly seethes at anything VC related

>>95962239
His mom got screamed when his dad wasn't home

>>95962233
faggot

>>95962224
random chariot, spirit hosts, chainraps, jewelry chains, and a mausoleum piece?

>>95962489
no

>>95962451
that's not a vampire cunt

>>95962499
repurposed siege tower to show a necromancer on a throne pondering his evil artifacts?

>>95962244
Lmao

>>95962230
Why is he raising warhammer when there are no enemies anywhere near him? Is the stunty so drunk he's fighting the air?

>>95962230
Ye, its probably nostalgia but I love this piece

>>95962527
i like your silly little tower anon

What company did you get your gaming mat from? Finally got a table to play on, need to get a mat and start building terrain.

>>95961470 (OP)

Best Skaven art coming through.

whats this generals opinion on tree kin? thinking of having a nice block as an anchor for my WE and was just wondering how viable that would be

>>95962654
Cute fluffy hamster-ven!

So hagbane are now only useful against 5+t targets with save no better than 5+? Still have place against warmachines, I suppose.

>>95962665
I need to recalculate their effectiveness compared to eternal guard, dryads and talsyn guys with the new changes. They lose close order bonus too fast now and I doubt that running more than 4 in a unit is viable.

>>95962527
Would never use it myself but it's oozing with sovl, I approve

>>95961561
vgh I wish I had 4th ed witch elves even if they will just sit unused right now.

>>95962671
honestly at this point just ally in sisters of avelorn
S3 AP-1 AB1 ignores cover, magical attacks, volley fire

>>95962691
oh and BS5

How to play Dark Elves without a dragon?

>>95962687
I think Witch Elves can be salvaged surely? The double rank retaliation hurts a bit but don't think it's quite as catastrophic as people think.

>lvl 1s and 2s comparatively buffed
>Chariots down points (2 lmao)
>PoF dead
>4+ save skeletons
>Regens vs crumbling
Royal Host stocks to the moon

>>95962742
They weren't the best before but being easily led around because they are frenzied, losing frenzy attack if they are charged, no armour so all shooting can just remove them and anything that hits them in combat removes them, not being able to hurt high toughness stuff as easily with the poison nerf, they aren't really worth it any more, they were hit or miss before but lean harder into the miss now so it's probably better to spend points elsewhere.

>>95962743
You think buying light armor is worth now for skellies?

>>95962749
frenzy and charging are such a joke now that they should allow multiple attacks from models that are in the fighting rank but not in base contact on the turn they charge

>>95962752
i thought they come with light armor

>>95962732
8th edition

>>95962752
For tk? Not sure, for vc, absolutely buying the deluxe package. Maybe I’ll even run a unit of spears alongside a wight with helm of command(though until they hit on 3(or 4 on chaos) they will use their hand weapon.

Can someone good at Maths please help me?

Assuming that the opponent has to reroll successful hits, do I reduce the % numbers presented by half?

Can someone good at mayhs help me?

Do I reduce each statistic by half assuming the opponent has to reroll successful hits.

>>95962230
Was going to post this. Peak.

>>95962576
Yes, even the weather 'as fookin wronged us

>>95962576
He's aurafarming.

>>95962768
nope, 1 point extra per model. tomb guard come with armor though.

If using that one matched play rule that means characters can't be more than 25% of an army total, do you round up or down with fractions?

>>95962939
Down.
If you rounded up, you'd be over 25%.

>>95962945
Thanks, was hoping to squeeze in a 500 point character but I can't make it to 2000 exactly.

>>95962951
no, the 25% refer to the agreed game size.
if you and your buddy say you are playing a 2000 point game, you can have a 500 point hero.

>>95962951
No, anon. Game size is not army size. If you're playing a 2000 point game, it doesn't matter if you're actually at 1997, for all intents and purposes your army counts as being 2000 points.

>>95962958
>>95962960
This genuinely sounds different to me because it talks about "your armies total points value".

>>95962962
there is an FAQ regarding this topic:
https://tow.whfb.app/faq/warhammer-armies#if-my-opponent-and-i-have-agreed-to-play-a-2-000-points-game-but-my-army-is

>>95962980
Thanks for that reference.

>durthu's wrath
>was a 10 to cast, now a 9
>every model in the fighting rank with the caster must take an initative test, if failed they take d3 S4 hits that ignore armour
>"fighting rank" is now 2 ranks deep
>it got double effectiveness

>>95962986
Oh shit, I did not clock this. Nice find anon. That looks very very good on a treeman now.

>>95961470 (OP)
Cathay chads can't stop winning!

>>95963078
i wish i could see some battle reports but this new members only youtube trend has half of the fucking site censored

>>95963078
happy miao is best miao

>>95963084
on some channels you can get gifted memberships from other members when you are watching a livestream of that channel.

>>95963069
might be better on a different wizard because a TMA cant take magic items, as one of which is a once per game +2 to cast if you REALLY need to get it off (or lore familiar to just pick it), that wizard can still take befuddlement of mischiefs
TMA is a brick though, and the spell combos well with tree whack (of which he too can take befuddlement)

pretty sure the wounds dont spill over onto other models, so getting multiple through on a single model is a nice way to try and bypass regen or ward saves (i.e 6+ ward goes from 1/6 to 1/36 chance to block all the damage if its 2 dice)

>>95963078

>>95963096
Reason I say treeman is this is legit a unit-killer spell now and a TMA is a lot more likely to singly engage with a unit and survive tanking them if it doesn't go off. The wounds don't spill over, you're right, but you're pretty likely to do serious damage to any T3 or T4 unit with the spell all the same.

>>95963110
also a hard counter to armies with tanky units like dwarfs, especially with the parry rule
also punishes units going wide to tey and get more attacks in
sure you may have a 3+ or 2+ save depending on what you got, and I dont care.

>>95963078
Why is there a Gundam in that pic?

>>95963121
All of Asia is now Chinese

>>95963119
It is a shame having to play Host of Talsyn for it on a treeman, but the heartwood pendant is pretty accessible for any regular caster in a main welves list. But yeah that's really good, good spot, that's legit very threatening to many infantry and cavalry units.

>>95963137
with the parry bonus, host of talsyn looks more tempting, and especially good for a tree focused list

i'll be trying out a 1000pt game with it next week, hopefully its solid

>>95961470 (OP)
So what, another 2-3 years minimum until Cathay gets more than literally 3 units?

>>95962576
Master Rune of Flying.

>>95963244
there are relatively high chances that they have already sculpted the second wave and are waiting the sales numbers before they greenlight mouldmaking, which might make the second wave of cathay come as soon as next year.

Personally I'll believe they'll wait for TOW2.0

>>95962732
You can't.
But on this topic, I am adding to the DE list.
Please review my proposed list
> THIS WOULDNT BE LEGAL A-AT AN OFFICIAL WARHAMMER WORLD E-EVENT!!!
Lmao suck my balls official events? All of like two of them? No one gives a fuck. The legacy armies need changes (except VC who need nerfs).
Army wide changes:
Everyone but monsters, harpies, gets murderous, is does not apply to mounts, it's just reroll ones to wound with non magical weapons in the first round of combat.
Dark elf warriors gain regimental, detachment, and the option to buy shield wall for 10 pts. 8 ppm
Crossbow gain detachment.
Corsairs gain detachment. 0-1 per 1k may be skirmishers at +1ppm. 0-1 per 1k may gain poisoned attacks for +1ppm
Witch aelves gain regimental. Sisters of slaughter gain detachment. Both are 1 ppm cheaper.
Hydra and Khabri are both base 4+ armor, both get 2d3 stomps, and Hydra is now base S6. No points increase.
Cold One Knights get full plate, no points increase. Remove the 0-2 for Scourge or Cold One chariots, both are now 0-2 per 1k, no points change. Reaper bolt throwers are now 0-3 per 1k, and 3ws a pop. No points change.
Executioners Axe down to 55, Sword of ruin 40, Life taker 20, Whip of Agony 20, Black Dragon egg 20, Hydra Tooth 20, Guiding Eye 20. The Banners are unchanged.
All the lore spells are down by one casting value. Hekari's blessing is now once per turn.

>>95962621
I've got a simple jungle mat from deepcut studios, paper venice canals tiles from ttcombat, and random shit boards from gw's warcry and kill team boxsets.

I do recommend deepcut and the canals, the latter are cheap and I've used them to add "rivers" onto the normal mat or to extend it to represent the field bordering a lake or the sea

>>95963281
Continued.
Manticores keep the +2T from the Square Based pack.
Black Guard halberds get the buffs of normal halberds (is the bonus AP) but also keep their fight in extra ranks. Eternal Hatred is changed to just gaining Hatred (Everything).
Executioners gain AP 2 on their great swords.
Yup that covers everything.
Let me know which Legacy army to hit up next

>>95962752
For normal skellies maybe, but Royal Host infantry cohorts come with it stock standard

>>95963281
>>95963319
lmao

no

>>95963281
Does anything in the fucking game get 2d3 stomps?

>>95962621
Seconding deep cut studios
I got a 6x4 double sided neoprene from them.
Side 1- the swamp
(Vc vs chaos, my undead were victorious)

>>95963330
Interesting. Never realized that.

>>95963360
Side 2
Lustria.
Vc vs another chaos player(I won)

Anyway long story short deep cut do super high quality mats, and I’m not allowed to play undead

>>95962752

Yes, absolutely. Every passed save is actually saving 2 models because it reduces the number that will crumble.

>>95963342
> T. Bretonnian or TK player
Get fucked easy mode faggot lmao

>>95963386
And you get your regen against the crumble

>>95963281
>>95963319
this is why elves player are universally despised

>>95963454
Can you explain why?

>>95961001
Expanding on this from last night
>Close Order (1), 3 Ranks (3), Banner (1), Grand Banner (d3), BSB (1), Warbanner (1), Outnumber (1)

Add a Screaming Bell who gives Terror and Stubborn.
Add a 36point unit of 4x3 Giant Rats directly behind the Bell who will give their rank bonus to the Bell for LD10 to deal with First Charge, unless your opponent can sneak behind you and hit such a small unit.
The Stubborn protects you in case it all goes wrong, yeah you FBIGO through the rats but hopefully the First Charge is gone by then unless your opponent is drip feeding this unit in which case your static res is winning every time.

>>95963469
Of course they can't.
Meanwhile, this sort of fag spams Pegasus knights, runs Mort Cult, etc.
The only crazy thing is the stomps, which could probably just be d3+1. Nothing else breaks the game. Nothing else is Sky Junk, Chaos Lord on Dragon, spamming lvl 4s, Dwarf gyro spam, etc level. If you think it is, you are mentally retarded

>>95963512
>Nothing else breaks the game
You made your shit purposefully stronger than the helves equivalents

>The Dragon Emperor predates the Old Ones
>He doesn't sleep like other ancient dragons!
>and he has a PLAN

>doesn't found Cathay for ~6000 years
>(Sigmar founded the Empire in like a decade)
>builds a wall
>does fuck-all for the next 4000 years

Why not just say he DOES sleep like the other dragons? It's not like he does anything.
Then you can have brief periods of rapid change when he wakes up and shit gets real before going back to classic warhammer stasis while he's asleep a la God Emperor. Or internal conflict and bureaucrat dynasties if the CCP allows.
The Cathay background annoys me so much. It's hard to imagine a way they could have designed it to be less dynamic and interesting. Even if dragon daddy is out of the picture, the siblings are still in charge.

Also
>The Dragon Emperor and Empress dissappear in 2000IC and the Monkey King takes power!
>The Old World is set in 2276 and Cathay is described as perfectly peaceful with no conflict.
>The Monkey King's glorious reign lasts from 2377 to 2387, just 10 years.
Great interregnum, very fun.

>>95963556
>>The Monkey King's glorious reign lasts from 2377 to 2387, just 10 years.
I'm simply going to pretend the 10 years was when he actually reached the celestial palace and sat on the throne with cathay under his command, while he practically but nor formally ruled cathay through some of the previous centuries as well.

>>95963469
because elvefags think they are entitled to good rules and cant deal with the fact that GW rightfully doesnt give a shit about them, especially about legacy crap like delves. so they make up their own broken rules

>>95963281
>regimental
>detachment
>regimental
>detachment
>regimental
>detachment
totally fitting for the backstabbing faggots, isn't it?

Crossbows

>>95963578
I'm going to have to headcanon the shit out of it.
Something like:
>Dragon Emperor (and Empress) are asleep most of the time.
>Dragon siblings also have frequent naps.
>The named Emperors are actually the human or shugengan bureaucrat-regents who do the day-to-day running of the Empire in the name of their dragon masters.
>Cathay is in constant low-level civil conflict even if all sides consider themselves part of the Celestial Empire.
>The Monkey King's reign is the short period of time when everyone formally recognised him as being in charge.
>Cults of Tzeentch, Skaven and Vampires are a constant threat operating within the chaos afforded by the civil conflicts and sleepy dragons.

>>95963281
>>95963319
>Murderous
Yes.
>Warrior and crossbow changes
Sure.
>Corsair changes
I would even give them 0-1 per 1k ambush at +1pts too.
>Witch aelves and SoS
First of all, fucking A-capital-Aelves??? Second I think with frenzy and poison changes 10ppm is still too expensive for witch elves. I'd make them 9. I'd probably drop SoS 3 points a model but fundamentally I just think the game is unfriendly to fragile elites and they probably need a rules fix over a points drop. I still don't think I would play them at 16 or 15ppm currently.
>hydra and kharibdyss
Armor change is fine, I don't agree with the strength boost on the hydra, stomps should be d6 and d6+1 instead of 2d3. I would flip it so the hydra gets the larger number of stomps and I would give the hydra +1 base attack too.
>COK
31pts might be a little cheap for 2+ T4 cav with default full plate, but stupidity is a massive downside. I think I'd make it +2 points to allow the option of running them lighter if you want.
>chariots
Yes.
>Bolt throwers
It should be 0-2 in line with other warmachines. No wounds increase, keep it in line with helf ones.
>magic items
I still don't you're taking any of these but I'd make it EA 55, SoR 50 (think this has to be flat 50 minimum because of the effect), LT and WoA are fine at 20, BDE is just flat better than a potion of toughness so minimum 25, hydra tooth could even be 15, GE should also be 25.
>lore spells
Reducing casting value is fine. Hekarti's blessing 1/turn is extra powerful now with the magic changes but honestly also fine, the only reason they don't have this is because they're legacy. The helves defensive equivalent is 1/turn.
>manticores
T5 makes them much more usable, yes.
>black guards and executioners
Yes, both good changes. I actually think executioners could also drop to 13ppm

>>95963671
>headcanon
Why are people crazy like this?

>>95963639
my only critique is that I don't like the way you do your bases. IMO, basing texture should always be glued, primed and then painted to be in-scale rather than being like a flock where its considered done as-is

>>95963319
>>95963677
You also forgot Shades, who I would keep at 15ppm but include the light armor for free and give them a choice of additional hand weapon or great weapon also for free. So 15 points no matter what you equip them with, but never cheaper.

>>95963281
>>95963677
Big reason for Hekarti staying 1 per game even in the renegade rules is because of the potential hekarti + focus familiar combo basically avoiding ever having to take dispel attempts and very often getting to just fully cast spells.

>>95963697
Shades don't really need anything, they are the best unit of the faction.

>>95963695
This was my first army so I'd do it differently today but I prefer to keep it consistent rather than change mid-course or try to scrape the basing material off a hundred models.

>>95963671
>I'm going to have to headcanon the shit out of it.
I did the same, but instead of putting the dragon to sleep I gave a reason a to what he does to remain awake instead of getting narcoleptic unlike the other dragons of the world, and why he needs to be distant for prolonged periods of time.

>>95963281
This screams of little tummy "guys I swear I'm just trying to make them balanced I swear I'm not overcompesnating" energy

>>95963690
>>headcanon
>Why
You'll understand when you actually start to like warhammer.

>>95963729
Not really. None of those changes are going to break DE and they mostly just bring them in line with HE as a faction. They aren't even going to really change their matchups, they just make it a little easier to bring infantry in the faction. The only ones I think are egregiously out of line with other factions are the bolt thrower ones, and the stomps (just because it usually goes D3 > D6 rather than 2D3).

>>95963716
I would probably just remove the focus familiar or change it from unlimited to a regular 1-of magic item then. I think that'd be fine. Maybe make it 20pts too.

>>95963690
I mean, I GM WFRP, so how I interpret the background does have a material effect on my games.

>>95963741
>it's not overtuned if it doesn't literally break the game!1!

>>95963767
Do you even have anything to say?

>>95963767
Are we going to argue legacy factions aren't intentionally a bit more nerfed than the non-legacy factions? Most of these changes just approximate the helf rules in the delf list.

I get there are other units even in mainline factions that need fixing, but nothing in that list of suggestions outside the bolt thrower and hydra look "overtuned" to me. I think you could actually go further with some of the unit changes.

>>95963774
why would dark elves halberds get more armour penetration than high elves halberds?
why would dark elves bolt throwers get more wounds than high elves bolt throwers?
why would dark elves get more chariots and bolt throwers per 1000pts than high elves?
why would dark elves get murderous on everything when everyone else's special rules for hand weapons only apply to hand weapons?

You're not thinking about putting your faction to the same level as other supported factions, you're just a biased little shit who wants an overpowered army
>inb4 nooo it's not literally the strongest thing possible and y-you play overpowered armies!!!

>>95963809
>why would dark elves halberds get more armour penetration than high elves halberds?
>why would dark elves bolt throwers get more wounds than high elves bolt throwers?
>why would dark elves get more chariots and bolt throwers per 1000pts than high elves?
I imagine anon would like all these changes to be made for the high elf equivalent as well.
>why would dark elves get murderous on everything when everyone else's special rules for hand weapons only apply to hand weapons?
Because the rule is basically nonfunctional if you don't do this, unlike everyone else's 'the weapon is -1AP and/or magical'. It's also not a weapon rule, just crudely applied as one.

>>95963809
What unit is able to use Murderous right now?

>>95963741
Your stuff is on par or better than HE foe cheaper on average. WE should never be 9pts or 10 when a HE spear is 9, phoenix guard are 16 but black guard are 13? And executioners being cheaper than swordsmasters etc. Bolt thrower being cheaper
This is why fan armies fail, your thinking if DE can be part with the most OP army that's fair while missing how being the Uber elf faction makes you the gayest shit

>>95963839
Also dark elves rules 2 editions and were still good in 8th. You can fucking handle being better than wood elves despite being stuck in legacy for now. We don't need 8th ed infantry swarm with cheap infantry making armies cost more than 40k to collect.

>>95963834
witch elves, when they choose to use their hand weapon instead of using both the hand weapons, which is a choice you can consider because extra fighting ranks and models in direct base contact can't make 2 attacks anyway

Hatred Everything is way too good

Dark elves should have demon princes

>>95963839
Where are you drawing these points from?

Black guard are 15ppm. Executioners are 15ppm and swordmasters are 14ppm. Executioners are just worse than swordmasters, so it seems reasonable for them to be 13ppm. Black guard being 15 and phoenix guard being 16 was GW's decision, and black guard are also just worse than phoenix guard, so that seems fair too.

The reaper bolt thrower is 80pts and the eagle claw bolt thrower is 80pts. There is no points difference between high elf and dark elf bolt throwers. Likewise, dark elf warriors here would be 9ppm with spears and thus the same price with the same rules as high elf spearmen. What's the issue?

>>95963872
It's first round of combat only. It's nice but it's not mind-blowing.

>>95963880
You or someone suggested these points adjustments earlier anon

>>95963876
you mean the anointed of the cult of pleasure that get the power of a demon prince inside the frame of a normal sized elf? or you mean actual demon princes in their army?

>>95963868
>would only ever be relevant if you were being charged on a unit with frenzy
>thinks it's a good idea to trade 15 attacks for 10 attacks rerolling 1s to wound on a S3 unit
>the army rule was intended to only apply in this exact niche circumstance, even though they wrote it before changing the rules to create this circumstance
Fuck off lmao

>>95963880
>Black guard being 15 and phoenix guard being 16 was GW's decision
So was making dark elves shittier, yet you're whaling at that.

>>95963886
Isn't following up from FBIGO a new combat?

>>95963889
Yeah I did and I think they're fair. Helf and delf spearmen cost the same, and the dark elf equivalents to swordmasters/phoenix guard which are just worse than swordmasters/phoenix guard are 1ppm cheaper. Nobody talked about the bolt thrower cost at all.

I don't even play dark elves, I just think these rules are pretty much fine. Arguably if you want to slap hatred everything on black guard you could just make them the same cost as phoenix guard: immune to psychology vs. fear is kind of a wash, and reroll hits first round of combat is probably better than a 6++ ward.

>>95963880
Phoenix Guard also get a ward save against non magic attacks.

>>95963899
>>would only ever be relevant if you were being charged on a unit with frenzy
or in the successive combat rounds, or with large units that also take as much advantage as possible from the cauldron

>>95963469
There's a kind of genetically cursed loser who projects his insecurities onto elves that infests fantasy spaces. You just bumped up against one.

>>95963905
No, it counts as a charge but it's not a new combat.

>>95963913
>I have to be better or as good as my enemies!
So you're ready to crank up the cost on hydra then?

>>95963886
>It's nice but it's not mind-blowing.
so you wouldn't mind if my army had army-wide hatred and not yours?

>>95963690
Dunno ask Rick Priestly

>>95963926
Oh cool, g2k

>>95963917
Not really following this. Successive combat rounds would just be the same: 15 attacks vs. 10 rerolling 1s to wound. What advantage would there be from the cauldron (which seems dogshit anyway because of its movement rules)? For cleaving blow you want to maximise attacks, for furious charge it's irrelevant because you're not in 2 ranks.

>>95963930
Again not a DE player but I look at the hydra rules right now and think wow that looks fucking awful. I think it would still arguably be overpriced at 200pts even with these changes.

>>95963931
I wouldn't mind if your elite infantry unit that are the biggest haters in lore got hatred (everything) no, which is a bit more relevant to what we're actually talking about.

>>95963956
Characters would get hatred everything too

>>95963956
most dark elves aren't even remotely close to being elite infantry units, let alone "the biggest haters in the lore"

>>95963956
>Not really following this.
Read the rules for who can attack in combat and reconsider your formation.

>>95963984
We're talking about black guard nigga.

>>95963993
Witches don't have motley crew so I can't attack with the first fighting rank AHW and the second rank still get murderous, so what's the use case for murderous? In any frontage I have to cap my attacks from max to 2/3rd to gain the benefit of murderous.

>>95963980
Why? I'm not the guy who proposed the change, but it was specific to black guard.

>>95963716
Bullshit, the HE one was probably, originally, once per game too, but when they deliberately powered up the supported factions the legacy got left in the dirt. There was zero consideration on any combos in the decision. Even with that combo in place, you choose to use the familiar before you know if it's cast, so they are still rolling for the spell (and spells are harder to get off than ever). It will in no way crack the game.

>>95964008
>>95963993
read carefully

Made a khorne chaos spawn

Old kit but it is still a fun one to build

>>95964014
I don't think you have shit and are just being evasive to try and dodge getting called on being wrong desu be honest. There is no legitimate use case for murderous, whether in the new rules or the previous ones.

>>95963809
> Why murderous on all weapons???
> Forgets the choppa rule on the grossly undercost O&G army
Get the fuck out gamelet

>>95964018
This looks sick. I hate the default chaos spawn but this looks great.

>>95963880
The woman you are responding to is clearly insane

>>95964031
Yeah the ball and socket joints look a lot better for a little sculpting work to get rid of the big gaps

>>95963931
Seeing as this is one infantry unit that can't be core under any circumstances I think you are mentally retarded to comparing it to 'army wide hatred.'
Is it your period or something

>>95964022
MAKE THE UNIT FUCKING WIDER YOU SMOOTHBRAINED RETARD

>>95964025
why would you "rebalance" your rules to the level of the exceptionally overpowered case rather than to the level of what's the norm for everyone else?

Any other Skaven players played with the new FAQ yet? Here are the things I noticed
>Gutter Runners aren't that heavily nerfed with Poison being changed. Good for clearing infantry/calvary, but they're probably overcosted now
>Stormvermin are pretty reliable, the AP -2 make them terrifying for monsters charging them
>Globadiers are still useless
>Rat swarms are actually sort of interesting now as walls since you can attack with two ranks when being charged. Still very expensive but more justifiable to run.
>Rat ogres are most defintely worse with the changes
>Most mages were pretty hurt by the changes but Warpstone tokens make Greyseers are pretty reliable.
Honestly the army 'Feels' better. I was playing against Lizardmen who were running extra infantry because of the new changes and I found Saurus' to be a pain in the ass to break through.

>>95963956
You are 100% the same faggot whining about legacy being underpowered while dark elves remain mid tier justifying shit like the hydra bad becsuse lemme guess dragonlords? Even tho you have one of the better dragon lords? And spellcasting. And light cav, and ranged now thanks to parry, and bolt thrower and monsters etc.
Yeah man scream into the void but until you get an offical release your army is hardly shit nor does it need cheaper witch elves (who still blend t3/4infantry) need better phoenix guard and swordsmasters.
The truth is legacy factions exist for fun and to use models, not to place top every table of events. You can bring dark eleves and do fine to most casual or garage games as is. You don't need to shit on everyone.

>>95964073
I will do the math of a 12 frontage witch elves unit into state troops and into black orcs and see how much difference murderous actually makes here. It's 30 attacks vs. 24 attacks, or do you want to argue for even wider frontage?

>>95964092
I have a game next week

I was curious about gutter runners, sounds like they do the same thing more or less
Halberds only get -2 if they charge, not are charged.
A swarm brick fighting with everyone is something I didn't realize
ROgres will always be trash
I'm considering running some lvl1 engineers with hammerhand because they get tokens for free too

I'm thinking about going hard into bricks of clanrats with spears+shield and a ratling gun.
I shoot you. If you don't charge me I will continue to shoot you, if you do charge me I shoot you then fight with 30 guys (minus whoever dies)

>>95964136
>I shoot you. If you don't charge me I will continue to shoot you, if you do charge me I shoot you then fight with 30 guys (minus whoever dies)

I'm using renegade detachments

>>95964085
Because that was their traditional rule? Right now they have literally nothing. HE have a thing, WE have a thing, DE need a thing. It's perfectly in line with the other elf abilities. You are just some raging faggot (who definitely doesn't play anyway)

>>95964160
What do we have again?

>>95964073
>>95964126
Wow it's STILL better to not use the murderous rule and attack with the AHW even with a 12 wide frontage and 2 fighting ranks, whether or not you're buffed by cleaving blow from the cauldron.

What was the use case for this rule again?

>>95964125
> These changes will make DE SHIT on EVERYONE
Lmao at this faggot. How many games do you play. Do you play AT ALL?

Does the errrata now make Empire armies more viable?

>>95964092
>Stormvermin are pretty reliable, the AP -2 make them terrifying for monsters charging them
uh, did you misread the rule?

>>95964201
Ask the 5 other empire players

>>95964160
Nta but I'm the guy who posted the 4th ed dark elf book because I like dark elves. And I think you're too far Im proposed changes. I'm guessing you played in 6th and think dark elves should always be that OP because literally all your justifications are based on the top tier stuff of other armies. It would just turbo boost an already solid army.
I'd rather see for dark elves
>corsair AoI
>coven AoI
>some magical items to help out dark elf infantry
>the halb changes for black guard
>...that's all for now
The army doesn't need a turbo boost it just needs fleshing out.

>>95964215
Dark elves fucking sucked in 6th, like legitimately one of the worst armies of the whole edition.

>>95964213
I am silly

>>95964183
A few times a month. Sorry I'm not a turbonigger trying to powergame a legacy faction. If all you can do is ree no games to people calling out your bullshit, you've lost the plot. Go back to AoS then.

>>95964167
Move through cover, magic arrows, and either the best long bow or a great spear on their basic infantry.
Though I do think WE need a general points cut across the board

>>95964230
The game just isn't built for S3 T3 5+ or 6+ infantry that cost like 17ppm. It's so hard to make a unit like that work.

>>95964219
Was it 7th then? I just remember 1 edition after 5th people hated my army. It's what got me into beastmen.

>>95964228
So far it's one person (You) crying and think these changes will somehow make DE an overcharged faction. Which shows you clearly don't play if you think these buffs do ANYTHING to make them 'overcharged,' if anything it drags them to rough parody with HE (who aren't good, which I shouldn't have to remind someone who plays SO often).

>>95964245
Yes they weren't DoC level but DoC, DE and VC were the big 3 of 7th.

>>95964230
>need less ppm
Yeah I think 1W "elite" infantry suffers from this so often. Like you can stack all the rules you want but getting killed consistently from 3 or 4 gobbo bows invalidates your 1W dude at a certain cost no matter what.

>>95964126
>or do you want to argue for even wider frontage?
yes, or smaller enemies

>>95964251
It's been at least me and 3 other anons faggot, you're just crashing out now. Unbunch your panties and accept your army doesn't deserve to be better than TK or whatever tourneyshit you base your entire warhammer fantasy experience off of.

>>95964245
DE were too good in 8th when Matt Ward gave them ASF with all the other elves. Any High WS, High I, re rolling hits, AND a buff to wound with hordes of infantry, which could charge up to 12 inches, was fucking insane.
None of that is a thing anymore in TOW, yet you have people who don't play thinking these sort of changes will 'break the game.'
Truly pathetic fags, definitely 40k rapefugees who can't stand adjustments GW didn't shit out of their stinking arseholes

>>95964262
Murderous still doesn't pull ahead at a 16 wide frontage.

>>95964264
If you think these changes make DE better than TK, you don't play the game.
> It's three others! Not just me!!
Lmao

Does anyone have a link for the WoC journal?
Thanks in advance.

What happened?

>>95964279
They realised they could use rules to control the models they sell you and it was more profitable to restrict your choices.

>>95964279
>what happened?
they realised rules sell more models, and making a rolling meta sells even more because the playerbase is metaslaves

>GW is le evil because they want to make a profit!!!
This is the attitude that killed WHFB.

>>95964268
>wants adjustments
>whines about GW including their squatted army
>calls everyone else gay mid crash
>still the biggest faggot
Ironically quite appro for a dark elf

>>95964279
They all got forced out or quit. The average online Warhammer fan now views the hobby like a live-service video game.

>>95964279
Nothing. What's stopping you from using your own rules or other unofficial rulesets like Renegade or WAP?

>>95964312
My tournament scene

>>95964296
>The average online Warhammer fan now views the hobby like a live-service video game.
That is surprisingly on the nose

>>95964323
Don't play competitive games then

>>95964296
>this
I could stick with TOW not having a rule refresh for 2 years easy because 1- even as a woodie I play for fun and 2- people know that and tend to not optimize vs my armies because 3- terminally online WAACfags will never understand that optimized sanitized rules don't make a game, a fun toolbox with good people do.

>>95964279
Nothing, that was always a cheap excuse for lazy and incompetent rules writers and now GW simply has a faster release schedule of lazy and incompetent rules

>Going in for a job interview tomorrow.
>Decided to buy into TOW if I get hired.
>Torn between Dwarves, Empire and Ogres.

All three look fun and have the guns and cannons I love. The old Ogre Spearhead and a Stonetusk would be a 1500 point army alone, but the Empire tank and blocks of guns and spears is great too. Dwarves are rad and have beautiful sculpts but I already have a Kings of War Abyssal Dwarf army. Anyone have recommendations? I like the miniatures in all three lines and the lore for all three as well, so I am at an impasse.

>>95964575
IMO, I dont know much about KoW, but if the bases are the same size then Dwarfs for sure since you can ease your way in via proxying. Otherwise THE EMPIRE OF SIGMAR CALLS.

>>95964604
I can just rebase all the minis I have for KoW onto WHFB/TOW squares without issue. I'm sitting on Abyssal/Chaos Dwarves, Empire of Dust/Tomb Kings and Elves/High Elves from some savvy shopping and discounted boxes. This is why I am leaning towards Empire or Ogres. Maybe a mixed force of humans with Ogre mercenaries?

>>95964575
Go Empire since you have already done some Dwarfs models for another game, Empire also allows you to play Dwarfs and Ogres in its army if you wanted to splash for all three to an extent with Imperial Dwarfs and Ogres

>>95964636
Thanks bro! Just need to nail the interview tomorrow and I'll buy the Battalion with my first paycheck.

>>95964092
>>95964136
Hey rat friends
I suspected gutter runners would suck against monsters but still do the same against most other things
Do globadiers not have a niche in spiking big monsters now? how good are they even at that?
Rogres always suck, heavens be praised(ogre rats however with gw do not ;) )
How are the swarms fighting with everyone, I thought they didn't benefit from this errata?

>>95964651
Godspeed fren

The old world needs more named characters, glup shittos or not.

Is there any miniatures in Warhammer Fantasy or TOW who closely resemble the Grudgebringer Infantry?

>>95964787
No, it really doesn't.
It needs more armies of infamy, more units you have to convert, and more legacy models and armies.

>>95964575
Id go Ogres then you'd have a thematic complement to play against your Dwarves

>>95964800
Rogue Element Gaming has an Empire that is literally the exact same models as the Grudgebringer infantry and whatever army they're from (in that video game). Might be worth messaging him.

>>95964800
first thing that comes to mind is skeletons, but I doubt you'll want to sculpt meat on them

>>95964820
Normally I am a GW buyer but I will make a big exception to this. Do you know the name of the product? On their site and they got at leaat a dozen sub categories

>>95964852
I can barely paint to a /tg/ level, never mind sculpt.

>>95964739
Thank you, Fren.
>>95964810
Ogres are tempting. I remember reading a scan of the 6e Ogre Kingdom book I grabbed off Limewire as a teen and having my mind blown, desiring an army of those awesome, fat fucks. I guess I could go with one army and buy into the other, later too. I still have my mixed WGFB Demons/Warriors/Beasts army from my youth.

>>95961470 (OP)
Hope someone enjoys the discount.

>>95964904
Isn't this the same image from the last thread?

>>95964912
interns don't have the budget for new images

>>95964904
> Not using it
> Gives it to the people
Kinda based of you anon

>>95964575
I have personally started the maw path anon.
All these Cathay players in my area made me want to make an army specifically to (try) to eat them.
I would suggest two of the old spearheads, one of the new ones, a Stonehorn, and a butcher. About $500 and you got an army with some options

>no drycha army of infamy for wood elves
One job.

>>95964996
Is dyrcha even active during TOW?

>>95965008
She should be.
They even brought back her model as a generic Branchwraith.

>>95965008
It's not like she is dead

>>95964678
globadiers are bad because you hit on 5s and wound on 6s. That is one hell of a fucking spike.
Idk what the swarm thing is. Regular/Heavy Infantry are affected.

>>95964856
I meant Rogue Element Gaming the Youtuber. He's an Aussie dude who does battle reports.

>>95965110
Ohhhh....ok will give him a holler. Thanks anon.

>>95964575
>the old ogre spearhead and a stonetusk would be a 1500 point army alone
God that box was great. Of course gw had to replace it

Ok so we had some good discussion on the proposed DE update (from like two or three people) and one whiny faggot (probably trans and a slave). But with this feedback, the revised DE rules are as follows
> Murderous is army wide, except monsters or harpies. Reroll wound rolls of one for non magical weapons during the first round of combat. Does not apply to mounts.
> Hatred (High Elves) is changed as follows: Characters with this rule have hatred apply to every round, not just the first
> All DE characters lose Eternal Hatred
> DE Warriors down to 8ppm. Gain regimental and detachment rules, may purchase Shield Wall for 10 points.
> Crossbows gain detachment.
Corsairs gain detachment. 0-1 unit per 1k may purchase the skirmish rule for 1 ppm. 0-1 per 1k may purchase poisoned attacks for 1ppm.
> CO Knights: full plate as standard, are now 32ppm
> Scourge and CO Chariots are now individually 0-2 per 1k, not combined.
> Hydra goes to S6, 4+ sv, 4+ Regen, d3+1 stomps, no points increase
> Kharib goes to 4+ sv
> Witch elves go to 10ppm
> Sisters of slaughter go to 14ppm
> Executioners gain AP2 on their great swords
> Black Guard Eternal Hatred is now Hatred (Everything). Their halberds gain the recent halberd buffs in addition to their fight in extra ranks rule.
> Reaper Bolt Throwers lose the 0-2 per 1k restriction (like HE ones).
> Lore of Hetkari is once per turn.
> All Lore of Naggrond spells go to casting 8+
> Executioners Axe down to 55, Sword of ruin 45, Life taker 20, Whip of Agony 20, Black Dragon egg 20, Hydra Tooth 15, Guiding Eye 25. The Banners are unchanged.
Oh and SURPRISE HE edit: Phoenix Guard halberds get the same treatment BG ones do- they keep their special halberd fight in extra ranks and gain the halberds buffs. Cost unchanged.
These changes are correct and take effect immediately. If someone disagrees, laugh at them and say if they can bench more than you, they can have it their way (pro tip, they can't)

>>95965161
I haven't been engaging with the conversation but are DE really that bad to warrant fan made buffs?

>>95965174
There are worse armies but this is just a legends problem not DE in particular

>>95965174
Imagine HE (one of the worst armies and all that props them up is 3 later save dragons, magic, and sisters of averlon shoved into core).
Then take away the ability to even get a single Dragon with three saves, and also their magic is worse, no shooting unit like the sisters, at all, and add to that the fact that their only heavy cav unit has stupidity. Also their only heavy chariot has stupidity.
That's DE. It's just worse (much worse) HE.

>>95965220
>>95965265
I thought Skaven were the worst army.

>>95965291
Lizardmen seem to be the worst but I don't know how things are post FAQ, Dark Elves aren't the worst there are just quite a fair few units in the armies which are very underwhelming, but they have some really successful units like shades.

>>95965291
They are/were
Not sure how this FAQ changes things yet and if it'll push them up

>>95965265
Have you niggers not read the FaQ?

Electors!! I am addressing you, a native of the glorious city of Nuln.
What do you think about such an idea of an army?
City-State of Nuln [1998 pts]
Warhammer: The Old World, Empire of Man, City-State of Nuln, Open War

General of the Empire, Lance, Full plate armour, Shield, General, Barded Warhorse - 118
Captain of the Empire, Lance, Full plate armour, Shield, Barded Warhorse - 73
Empire Engineer, Battle Standard Bearer - 70
Empire Engineer - 45
Empire Engineer - 45
38 Nuln State Troops, Sergeant (champion), Standard bearer, 10x State Troops [Hand weapons + Shields + Light armour + Sergeant (champion)] - 298
38 Nuln State Troops, Sergeant (champion), Standard bearer, 10x State Troops [Hand weapons + Shields + Light armour + Sergeant (champion)] - 298
Great Cannon - 125
Great Cannon - 125
Great Cannon - 125
8 Empire Knights, Lances, Shields, Drilled, Preceptor (champion), Standard bearer - 196
Helblaster Volley Gun - 120
Helblaster Volley Gun - 120
Helblaster Volley Gun - 120
Helblaster Volley Gun - 120
No magic, no magical nonsense. Just steel and gunpowder!

Can someone please explain the last sentence. If I read it on the surface level, you can't make supporting attacks if struck at the flank or rear?

>>95965374
Put Captains in your State Troops unless your mounted characters are going in them.
Get the Gryphon Standard in one of them

>>95965375
correct
the last sentence exists exclusively so that models don't make a support attack in addition to their normal attacks

>>95965374
Looks good but I recommend one unit of veteran state troops for the Griffon banner. You could also cuck wizies by buying witch hunter wards. Also try to get the magical sniping rifle and dragon bow in there for extra power.

>>95965174
No its 1 tourneyfag mad he can't beat TK
Otherwise it's like most legend armies mid and lacking flavor but not unplayable.

>>95965406
>>95965416
Thank you, Electors!
But you didn't see one important point - this roster is WITHOUT magic at all, absolutely. No mages, no enchanted banners, no magic weapons. ONLY steel and gunpowder!
But as for the heroes, I'll think about it. The knights themselves will do just fine

>>95965476
Kino

>>95965161
Agreed.

>>95965442
>lacking flavor
isnt that just most armies

I only now realised the logic to flank charge now.

>if the enemy is 10 x 4 wide, striking them in the flank means they can only attack with 8 men
>if the enemy is too thin on the front, same thing

I see how positioning is more important.

>>95965521
Arguably, I mean most AoI suck and have 0 effort.

>>95965541
I'm going to 'accidentally' knock the first Sky Lantern I see in real life off its table

>>95965545
I wouldn't say most, there are definitely stinkers those (heralds of Chaos lmao)

>>95965585
Hope you make sure the bloke you do it to aint too big. But you shouldn't be mean.

>>95965651
>Hope you make sure the bloke you do it to aint too big
He won't be, he's a Cathay player

>>95965585
>I'm going to 'accidentally' knock the first Sky Lantern I see in real life off its table
Come on Anon, don't be that asshole.

>>95965585
This is a good initiative. Hopefully it catches on in the wider community.

>>95965642
I mean most of then are
>cav with random benefits
>magic/inf focus
Like which ones see play even casually? Dwarfs TK and maybe empire? (Nuln) Bret Exiles?
Meanwhile Chrace Lothern Wild Hunt Talsyin Minos Twisted Bray (nerfed the fun out other than gorsaken) wolves of sea and the chosen one are all...I dunno uninspiring. I think the O&G ones are in the uninspired but not bad side too but dunno.
I'd say the AJs have certainly been a mixed bag so legacy armies have been outclassed sometimes but not always if not most armies still kind of hover around pretty meh.

>>95965722
Wolves of the Sea is great, what the fuck are you talking about. Unique rules, Unique units (kitbash), Unique model that can only be taken with that army.
You chose one of the worst ones to bash. It's not very competitive, but uninspired it aint.

>>95965585
Do you even realize how hurtful comments like this are for the feelings of 1.4 billion Chinese people?

>>95965749
>I claim most are uninspired or not played
>you say I'm bashing it for being flavorful but not competitve
Anon.... are we splitting (wolf) hairs here or you just trying to start shut? I started this convo how legacy armies lacking flavor and mid is sort of par for the global status of factions in TOW supported or not.

>>95965687
>concern for Cathay models being damaged
>AoS image
Oh I'm noticing.

>>95961470 (OP)
always loved this art

>>95965775
God I hope it's even more hurtful to them

How wide should ogres play now? Potentially thinking about starting an army by grabbing 2 of the old spearheads.

>>95965800
>I claim most are uninspired or not played
And none of what you posted ties into that. Strawman in the most classic meaning

Got my box of marauder horsemen today. Would it be worth it to paint the riders and horses separately? I've never done sub-assembly painting before. Also, would there be anything wrong with me making the 2 command squads for 2 units of 5?

>>95965848
6th skaven was peak, that entire book is stuffed with great art and stories

>>95965895
it had an insane empire sewer diorama with ratcatcher and assassin as well, used to be on display at WW.

>>95964279
Like all laissez-faire liberal types their ideas are retarded and don't survive contact with reality.
People like having an official version of something because it helps disperate people co-operate as they can all rely on a single standard.

Is it worth getting two of the wood elf battalions for $100 each? 60 glade guard is probably excessive, although I don’t know if that’s common historically.

Apparently the new Cathay Lord has a Jade Lion on his base... hints for the future like they do with 40k?

>>95965943
I'd get only one to determine its vibe

>>95965943
You can easily convert the glade guard into deepwood scouts with the ranger heads.

>>95965950
those are in the game, so they'll likely hit ToW too at some point

>>95965950
Giant lion monstrous creature made out of jade? Would be really cool, but I also don't want more centerpiece models especially for a brand-new army.

>>95965962
Not really centerpieces. They are medium sized. They are supposed to be Temple Dogs.

>>95965962
They’d be more like monstrous cavalry, like dragon ogres or those retarded ogre mounts.

>>95965962
Yeah that (and general apprehension to making new molds) is probably why they weren't made yet. But Cathay does feel like TK 2.0 with all these giant animated constructs.
>>95965961
Considering how well the initial release sold, definitely an inevitability.

>>95965962
What other anons said. They'd be an Ushabti equivalent. Probably with Move Through Cover, since they can swim through stone.

>>95965880
Absolutely. Never painted a cav model with the rider attached. Seems like a royal pain the arse.

>>95965993
The parts close to the rider/horse can be annoying, but at least you avoiding painting things that dont need to be painted. Also lets you jump into game more quickly

>>95965977
>But Cathay does feel like TK 2.0 with all these giant animated constructs
I both like and hate that.
Speaking of TK, I wish they got another ushabti-like unit. Something similar in size to infantry where I can take at least 4-5 and more, but not quite a monstrous cavalry/creatures.

>>95965969
>>95965971
>>95965988
I guess that's acceptable for me then. Considering it's already in the game we'll be getting them sooner or later.

>>95961823
I tried finding the other wood elf wizard, an older metal one with a spear and dagger, but couldn't find her. Did find this other Amazon witch and my shadow dancer though, for what it's worth.
The elf Amazon I think is from a Kickstarter and it delivered physical prints. No clue which one. She can be a lord on stag stand-in maybe while Alarielle can be a mage on great eagle.
The way I write my lists though, I'll struggle to bring even two at a thousand points since I like troops on the table

>>95966029
Nice model

>>95966005
How much are you saving tho, parts of legs, a bit of a saddle? Is the extra time needed to paint it together less than a few more strokes of a brush?

>>95964904
>no Ghal Maraz
>no Bretonnia
Yawn

>>95965880
If you can't control yourself for shit like me paint them separately, if you're competent with the brush you can do it all together.

>>95965880
Also 2 commands is fine, but generally if you're running them in units of 5 then you probably are using them as chaff so giving full command isnt worth it

>>95966082
They have shown Ghal Maraz off, so I would expect that to come out soonish and Brettonia maybe next year after they have done all the Empire state colours

>>95964323
Don't engage with tourny scene

>but I want to!

Than don't complain about being a slave to the offical rule set, it's an inherent part of a tourny scene

New to TOW
How are chaos warriors after the FAQ? Are Daemon Princes worth taking at all?

>>95965367
HE kept their triple save dragons just now it's only 3+/5++/5+++. The dragon princes got a LOT better due to the change to impetuous, all their infantry got better, their shooting against large stuff is worse, their magic got worse (but so did everyone else's). Extra ranks of infantry fighting is a big buff for HE but I'm not sure how much because HE don't use massed CR they want to use their elite infantry to outfight, and Cav still get the charge on them

What the fuck happened to GWs artist? All the arcane journals have really mediocre art. Is this just an Old World problem, or have all their good artist left or died?

>>95966186
>change to impetuous
how did they change it? Are beastmen minos good in that AOI now?

>>95965775
Kek

>>95966194
It's a leadership test now, not a fucking coin flip.
It's like a less horrible stupidity.
Dragon Princes can see the table now

>>95966181
>How are chaos warriors after the FAQ
Much better but time will tell if they are a unit worth taking now.

>>95966191
The AJs don't have any new art in them, generally it's all reused from older WFB or Warmaster editions with a Sepia filter on top to so the Black and White pieces mix better with the pieces that were originally in colour
I think the Cathay Arcane Journal has been a general exception for this for obvious reasons.

>>95966224
They all have some new art in them, usually for named characters.

>>95966181
my brother in chaos the FAQ has barely been out a day
play some games and figure it out for yourself
daemon princes were already worth taking

>>95966245
Those are all done by the same artist called
L J Koh, I think so, it might just be his style.

>>95966224
Sorry I was thinking of the cover art specifically.

>>95966191
>not crediting artists
>insultingly low rates
>forced waiving of ownership rights
>increasing abuse of AI art
what do you expect?

Considering pivoting to Wolves of the Sea with Frydaal as my general. Losing chaos knights and chosen seems like a massive detriment though.
Does WotS bring anything to the table that makes it worth it?

>>95966191
It could be far far worse. Pic related the new KO cover art.

>>95966273
Have people caught GW using AI art at all?
I don't recall if they had any scandals like WOTC about its use

>>95966297
we truly live in a society

So I wanna try cathay at 1k but I heard they're very strong. Should I skip any units that are too OP? I just wanna have fun not rape my oponent.

>>95966297
NOTHING terrifies me more than a f*male

>>95966297
Putting aside the /pol/ tier complaints, the way this is colored looks very CHATGPT-y. I know its an overused complaint but it looks so muddy and generic.

>>95966283
Skin Wolves are very good in general
Along with them, Huscarls and Berseraks are very cost-efficient

>>95966302
it's not that they have been caught, but they use it as a lever to keep rates low for iterative works.

>>95966302
They haven't and all the big dick artists like Adrian Smith and Karl Kopinski left GW long before AI image generation was being used commercially by anyone. Who's even left of the old guard? Paul Dainton? The Chinese guy who did the 8th covers?

>>95966325
Jes Goodwin still does work at GW but he was never much of an interior artist for them

>>95965476
lovely vampire and griffon, shit

>>95966313
Are Huscarls just chaos knights or are they special marauder horsemen?

>>95966384
their Marader Horseman+
They are still light calvery

>>95966297
I don't know enough about art to pinpoint why this cover art feels lame on a technical level, but there's just genuinely nothing cool about it. The dwarfs don't look particularly ferocious or badass with their weird floaty poses, and their gear just kind of looks really boring. The composition also feels really empty. It's over 50% sky and almost no action. Absolutely zero juice. I found this old image of a WFB Dwarf cover and the difference feels like night and day. Lots of color, lots of action, and you get a bit of that classic Warhammer goofiness with the guy in the middle just sat in his chair chilling with his thick ass book like he doesn't even give a fuck about the battle raging around him. Don't know why so much modern fantasy art is like this.

>>95966082
Bretonnia was vaguely teased for 2026.

>>95966429
Are pre-orders up for Ghlas Maraz then?

Strange question for you guys. I've played a lot of WFB back in the days and I'm more than sure I'll be fine with TOW. But I'm going to be teaching 4-5 players who are brand new to it. Is there a good place to get some learner approved balancedish lists for the different races? 1000 pt or 500 pt? Anything I should watch for while teaching?

It's up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhCQRcFfu84

>>95966468
he's pretty cool

>>95966463
500 points is probably easier to get them all on the same page for a game or two before moving onto larger points scales

>>95966468
A part of me likes this guy and another part of me wants to beat him bloody

>>95966484
I'm worried 500 pt doesn't have enough unit diversity. But agree it's easier to teach.
Mostly I want "fair and balanced" lists. My biases can easily weight lists and I know that.

>>95966468
I dont watch sloptubers. Either give me something to read or fuck off.

>>95966468
Really weird to have an Oxford professor making TOW clickbait.

>>95966224
Not new ?

>>95966591
it wierder when you remeber his dayjob is being CCNs royal corrpondent as well

>>95966591
Love of the game

>>95966591
>>95966623
Everyone has hobbies. He just happens to be based.

>>95966538
Just do 1 hero and 3 units of various types (bows melee cav for example) for 500pts

>>95965541
No it means they can only attacks with 4 men, supporting attack can't be made to the flank or rear
>>95965375

Base done on goats
Just need to slap shield arms on some of them and we're on to the minotards

More or less done with my charioteers. Now for the thing I hate most: Painting horses! And the chariot too, actually. Why is it that painting infantry is fun, but painting anything else is a pain?

>>95966463
I would do 1000 points because 500 would limit the lists so much that it wouldn't be a real learning game imo

>>95966297
>That cover

>>95966654
The fighting rank ist 2 rows if they didn't charge. This has nothing to do with supporting attacks

>>95966536
Yeah I get that. Although nothing about him is likable to me. I just hate his over the top persona , however nothing he's said I've found that disagreeable. Then again I can only stomach watching him for a few seconds at a time. Basically I've just hate watched him to see if he says something as dumb as I think he looks, but it nothing he says I really find that dumb. Even his political takes that I thought would be really out there seemed pretty mild and reasonable.

>>95966297
Doesn't even look steampunky now. Looks like shitty metal armor with balloon attached.

>>95966297
I had such a visceral reaction to this cover

>>95966743
>>95966771
Keep it up anons, both are looking great.

At the end of the day Luke is just a guy who really likes Warhammer Fantasy and isn't out to milk outrage for the sake of it. You can disagree with his opinions but at the same time it's undeniable that he plays the game a lot so you can see that at least he's well informed and isn't just pulling his ideas out of a magic hat. I like his persona and the Andrew Eldritch larp (in small doses) but because of how abrasive it is it's certainly not for everyone. TOW so far seems kind of blessed by the lack of any real lore, because it means that all the people who make content for it are really into the game itself and not just lore orbiters.

>>95967000
If you're not within base to base contact, you can only make a supporting attack regardless of where you are

Kitbashing undead is a lot of fun, need to make a few more whimsical models though to up the whimsy factor of the unit.

>>95966536
100% understand what you mean

>>95967176
Is the big hand guy meant to be a zombie mutant?

>>95967192
once the initial bit of greenstuff cures I'm going to have a go at sculpting a suture to suggest a bored necromancer had a giant hand handy and had nothing to do that day.

I am working on some zombie mutants too, repalced arms with fish flippers, gonna sculpt a fishy face. I like how very silly models look painted up in a very grim scheme.

>>95967245
thanks for the infomration anon
Sounds like you're enjoying yourself

>>95967083
Well put. Of all the warhammer media related youtubers, I appreciate his well spoken takes. Nice bloke, educated too. Certainly better than the square based dude with the stache....good lord.

>>95967083
It helps that his classic WoC army is amazing.

>>95967176
Honestly these are shaping up pretty cool, while some of the stuff like the hand might stick out it's certainly more interesting than a see of cheap 3d print or gw zombies I've had to face

>>95967083
>I like his persona and the Andrew Eldritch larp
Horrors beyond human ken.

>>95966297
They put a fat lesbian on the steampunk faction coved

Where is the rule that hand weapon and shield give extra armor? I don't see it in the errata.

>>95967507
There isn't one. You definitely didn't just miss it. The thousands of people talking about it online have just being doing it to trick you.

>>95967548
I found it.

Wish we got more 3rd edition art for TOW but I guess GW ruined their relationship with every old artist that isn't blanche

>>95966297
All this guy's work is unfinished
It's fucking embarrassing to showcase it at all let alone promote him to the main artist for AoS

>>95967663
The general state of artists within GW is fucking abysmal. Such a horrible company to work with is the only thing I can assume, idk. even in 2018-2019 things werent this bad.

>>95967663
It's depressing seeing current Warhammer artists works when compared to their predecessors. This random pic of clanrats blows away what is supposed to be a fantastic cover to draw people into getting the book for that army.

>>95966743
Very nicely done!

>>95967763
I don't know if that counts as a random pic since it was the box art for the clanrats.

>>95967663
Is that unfinished? The model looks the same.

>>95967821
>>95967071

Cheers brothers!

Question for any goat aficionados,
I have six minotaurs, do I do 3 units of 2 for board presence, 2 units of 3 for greater threat presence per unit for one block of 6 to MEAT CHECK just about anything in one spot

>>95967763
Of newer artists I really liked Thomas Elliot’s stuff. And Kevin Chin’s stuff was sometimes hit or miss, but when it was good it was really good. Both have left GW now I think.

I think I have fallen for the squat bros. I bought a box of longbeards to see if I would like the dwarf models, and I think I am in love.

Prepping my mostly metal beastmen army for painting. Got some old dragon ogres and some hounds as well. Only plastic will be a unit of ungors and plastic shaman.

>>95967993
Have you had all that stuff sitting in a container in your basement for years or you went and bought an army of metal because of old world? That's wild brah

What are the best vidyas i can play as orks? I'm really really craving some orkish action and stupidity

>>95968006
I have been buying old models on and off for years. Made a fair bit of money buying/selling. Kept some of my favourites though.

>>95966297
My question is how the fuck does the AoS lore explain this? Dwarfs have a naturally occurring sex imbalance that makes females insanely valuable. Why would they risk making that imbalance even worse by allowing women into active combat? Are dwarfs in AoS trying to speedrun extinction?

>>95968082
Much like the latest dwarf supplement from WHFRP which features a female dwarf warrior on the front, world building and setting have taken a backseat to real world political ideology.

>>95968082
Why would you assume they ported that imbalance over to AoS?

>>95968082
Having read the both Ogre and Ogor lore, AoS seems to be more of a hard reboot that only pays lip service to being a continuation of Fantasy. The same is likely to be the case for Dwarves, it’s probably best to not think of the Duardin as the same or descendants of WHFB Dwarves at all.

Are Tree Kin any good?

>>95966419
It feels as though they're ashamed they’re making art of a Dwarves in the newer art.

sovl...

This entire project has been a bit of a disaster, but it's all starting to come together.

>>95968126
AoS is supposed to be a sequel to Fantasy, but as >>95968163 pointed out, it's more like its own thing that lifts recognizable elements. That being said, even if we assume dwarfs in AoS have a 50/50 population distribution between the sexes, there seems to be (from my understanding, at least) weird discrepancies within their fluff (ie kin being important but marriage not being highly regarded).

Wait, do wood elves need to build their own terrain for trees?

>>95968334
>marriage not being highly regarded
It's because the satanic left wingers that work for GW have corporate mandates to keep dwarf elements intact so they subvert and corrupt where possible (devaluing marriage in this case)

>>95968289
Is this actually good?

>>95968386
Yeah, leftists do that. Sure.

>>95968405
Yes they do, they subvert and corrupt anything they perceive as traditional Christian white/European values. You can see it all over NuGW.

I always thought dwarves were coded after the unmentionables

>>95968422
Jew coded? Not at all, there's no Jewish stereotypes about being loyal to a fault and holding grudges.

>>95966297
Lmao

>>95968404
>is a Warhammer book actually good
LOL

>>95968457
Gortrek and Felix Trollslayer is fun. It's not high lit but it's an enjoyable easy read. And I learned the word internecine and now use it to describe middle eastern conflicts.

Does the guy that was making an iron daemon out of a lord of skulls and ironsworn out of hammerers still post here? Or does he have a blog or something? It's been a long time since I've seen any of his wips.

>>95968360
Yes
You could if lazy just use a 2d print out

>>95968716
High Elves who bring Chracian woodsmen need to bring a forest now too after the errata. They get the same rule.

>>95968716
I mean, I don't mind building some trees with leftover sprues but I would like some reference to see what I should aim for here.

>>95968736
That's cool
>>95968783
Iirc it'd a 3x9 inch at max size forrest.

>>95968805
Wait I'm dumb
8x12 is std
Maybe it was 3x9 is smallest or some shit I dunno

>>95968805
>>95968827
well this is gonna be fun to figure out

>>95968843
Ok yeah the errata clarified it has to be at least 3x9 in size and the wood elf book says 8x12 max, so there's your min max size with anything in between fine.

>>95968411
The guy who came up with all the 6th edition Dwarf lore is a leftist.

>>95968932
A leftist from 20 years ago is a right winger today with the same beliefs. This is dragging the discussion off topic anyways. You can see by the KO book cover the designers aren’t focused on world building but rather on politics.

>>95968870
Anon... Read more carefully next time...

>>95969022
Replaced it yes but std wood should be 8x12 no?
God fucking dammit it GW can you just close the fucking loop on these things in 1 sentence once in a while?

>>95968082
Isn't all the Dwarf reproduction shit retarded anyway? I thought I remember females only had like 2 kids, which is below replacement levels even if you aren't under siege from greenskins and rats 24-7. Also AoS literally takes place after the world explodes, so I don't think all the rules transfer over.

>>95968082
If they ever mention the disparity again it will be to retcon it.

>>95969079
At least females don’t have beards. That’s kinda gay.

>>95968163
>in fantasy, elven men whisper of tales where they got human women pregnant but think it an impossible thing
>I'm AoS the witch elves are just constantly popping out brats with human men to the tune of "Well these things happen"

>>95969167
>Elven men********
Even the average cathayan peasant has more libidio than the most pent up dark elf (and don’t get me started on high elves, there’s a reason why they’re numbers were constantly stated to be dwindling, and it wasn’t because of no war).

>>95969205
Missed your thread sigmarxist?

I'm kind of annoyed they buffed Halberds and hand weapons with shields while leaving spears with nothing. Their main thing is now diminished since before they doubled your attacks, and now only give you a third more, so despite costing a point they don't really make you much better. Might as well save the point and gain an armor.

>>95967163
No. Supporting attacks are made using weapons with the supporting attacks property. Attacks from the second row of the fighting rank are normal attacks, they are just capped at 1 because troops are not in b2b contact.

>>95969254
Just stating how elves are the Koreans of warhammer.

>>95968966
You're the one off topic and your brain has been turned to mush by rightoids and leaked out of your ear.

>>95961470 (OP)
How good are poison wind mortars? They don't seem that great but I really want to run some

>>95968966
>woman means politics

>>95969346
>poison wind mortars?
Might actually be decent now as we're going to start seeing more blocked up infantry. The poison nerf didn't hit them either.

>>95969472
>>95969472
>>95969472
>>95969472
New

>>95967763
Lewis jones is really good, although even his stuff is made kinda lame at times by the excessive commecial quality of what he's directed to do

>>95967917
All of kevins traditional battle scenes are pretty boring and bad imo, but his stuff like the weird little tzeentch marginalia and stuff was top tier kino