What style of battlemap do you think works better? Something simple, quick and easy, or something more detailed and elaborate?

Personally, I've been starting to feel like detailed battlemaps are a waste of time. Too many hours of prep spent making a map you'll use for maybe a single session. They also end up feeling railroady, as in your players can't really go places to fight you've not pre-prepped with a map.

>pic related: simple battlemap idea

Simple is definitely better. Unless you're a graphic artist and you're actually making everything yourself, it's going to be "incorrect" detail more often than not. Simplistic ones allow you to add detail as necessary, or just use them as is and let people work their imaginations a bit. After all, it's just a visual aide.

Like, for the one you posted, you'd want to mark where the doors are, and major points of interest (hugeass fountain, giant demon altar, hostage cage, etc) but other than that it's basically good to go.

>>95968219 (OP)
Simple. Fact is combat doesn't last long enough to justify putting that much effort into maps and players are not dynamic enough to really utilize combat maps, they'll rarely spend 2 turns worth of movement getting around. Most fights wind up being boxing matches with the party hanging out in the same 6 grid radius.

>>95968219 (OP)
I do simple battlemaps that I litter the field with objects. Like if a map is meant to be a tavern I put down tokens that are chairs, tables, and such. It provides players opportunities to interact with the environment if they can see tokens of things like rocks and trees.

>>95968246
FPBP. Keeping things simple and adding only as much detail as is necessary is the best approach. Maps should be for utility, not for aesthetics. You're better off describing things so players can build their own mental image from their imaginations.

IMO simplicity is best for battlemaps while complexity is best for regional or overland maps.

>>95968219 (OP)
>>95968246
unless you're drawing it on paper (based) modern map-making software make it trivial to make detailed maps though. Not shitting on simple maps but if you like the look of a detailed map, you can do it without too much trouble.

>>95970765
You can still end up spending hours making a map that your group will see once and never again. Your pic could take a few hours to touch up, OP's could take 20-30 minutes.

>>95970787
See that's what I mean, it doesn't take that much time thanks to modern map software.
That pic took me an hour, not several hours, and that map is an entire floor of the dungeon, which took my players around 4 hours to navigate through.
In total I made 3 levels for this dungeon, which took us about 4 sessions to get through, and each map took around 1 hour to map at most. Most of the detail is literally just drag and drop.

>>95970811
All of that assumes you have the assets ready to drag and drop. Factor in the actual time it takes to make those assets and you add exponentially more work. And depending on how detailed you want it to be you could easily spend days on one big map.

>>95970834
>All of that assumes you have the assets ready to drag and drop
I mean
it's all free online.
>make those assets
Any half-decent map software comes with those assets. I didn't draw a single thing on that map personally. It's a (pirated) dungeondraft map with the free sci-fi pack from 5 minute tabletop. There's also rpgmap which is free if you have morals unlike me and can use asset packs from the same sources.
>days
What the fuck, that's fucking crazy dude, what kind of maps are you making? An entire city room by room?
It shouldn't take more than 4 hours to make an entire dungeon with multiple battle areas with detail that should last you several sessions.

I'm not an expert map maker by any means, this is just me half-assing with whatever I find.

>>95970918
The cartoony drawn style isn't for everyone. Finding consistent realistic assets can be tough. I ended up making my own maps in PS from various assets and found out it was like a fractal of prep. Kept eating up more and more time.

>>95970980
Ah yeah if you have some super demanding tastes than yeah it can take years to make a map, but that's specifically a (you) situation, for most people it's possible to make detailed maps without taking too much time.

>>95970995
Even if it's easy I think detail can lead to you being too constrained in terms of encounter possibilities. And in terms of player imaginaton.

>>95970918
I'd call that a pretty simple map desu, but that's all you need. TTRPGs aren't graphics design courses.

>>95971026
You can always mix and match as needed. The point is that if you LIKE detail, these days it's not hard to do. If what you want isn't doable with existing assets, then you can do something simple.

>>95968246
This is the answer.

>>95968219 (OP)
I draw lines with a erasable marker on a plain white hexgrid mat when needed, or, online i do the same equivalent which are black lines on a white background.
Keep it simple, keep it clean. You're playing a ttrpg, maintain your players detached from the image, let them visualize things inside their heads.

>>95968219 (OP)
>Too many hours of prep spent making a map you'll use for maybe a single session.
so make something quick? it doesn't take that long for a small battlemap. most of the time spent for me is figuring out what npcs to use or what loot to put. see pic related.

>They also end up feeling railroady, as in your players can't really go places to fight you've not pre-prepped with a map
if you're skilled, you can more or less corral them to places you prepared because you show them that's where the adventure continues. they can go someplace else, but why would they when the quest is in this place?

if there's a spot where i don't plan for a battle i just put up a picture for the general area and can add the grid/draw something quickly if combat emerges.

>>95968219 (OP)
Spending that much time fleshing out an actual 25+ keyed out area dungeon is one thing but for a single encounter zone??

Simple but sprinkled with flavor to aid imagination.

>>95968219 (OP)
When my friends and I first got into playing D&D we would use grid paper from our schoolbooks and use shit like pencils, erasers and staplers as terrain. Our characters were usually represented by small pins or tacks. Good times.

Anyway, the beauty of something like that is ease for improvisation. Big beautiful maps can be great though, if you're planning on spending a lot of time in that area beyond just one session, or you are happy to re-use it. Premade maps can be fun for that.

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>>95968219 (OP)
simple battlemap, always.
if you include something on the map, it must be something you have a plan for the party to use.
if you put a card table on there, someone will flip the table for cover, or break off a leg for a club, or ask to pocket the cards.
always
simple.

>>95980831
I like drawing but I despise all the VTTs except TTS and that has poor drawing.
How do I into digital white boarding? Something with simple counter tools is fine. I just don't want to use GIMP/PS to do it.

>>96001811
what exactly do you like about tabletop simulator? That game's popularity for running TTRPGs always confused the hell out of me.

>>95990212
That's what my friends and I did too. We used the back of Christmas wrapping paper since we had a bunch and it had 1 inch grids on the back. And we made simple paper tokens for our characters and enemies.

>>96002237
>what exactly do you like about tabletop simulator? That game's popularity for running TTRPGs always confused the hell out of me.
it says tabletop right there, bro!! it's basically made for that. force all your friends to buy it, quickly!!

>>95980831
This is the best and most based way
Never mind that I started out like this, absolutely not nostalgia speaking. Detailed maps are cool but for some things theatre-of-mind along with a basic map work better

>>95968219 (OP)
Depends on the players. I actually think using other people's detailed battlemaps can be a good idea, because sometimes players will pick up and use details in the map they wouldn't be likely to otherwise, like using furniture or lighting. If your game or players won't make use of that, then simple for time's sake. I think your system and flexibility as a GM makes a huge amount of difference here. If you want to make your own you can but it takes a lot of time. For me paying $15 here and there to a Patreon artist and downloading their whole catalogue has given me a massive amount of very detailed battlemaps I can use.

>>96002237
self hosted, free content and most similar to pnp

>>95970918
Wish that map tool wasn't vaporware.

>>96012158
>most similar to pnp
While I understand the initial desire for this, why not take easy upgrades? VTTs offer a number of things that are so convenient they've been ported back into IRL sessions, like macros for math or tracking of health and other resources. It also allows things that, while technically possible IRL, are extremely difficult to implement (and thus normally get ignored), like LoS (especially player-specific) and PMs that don't involve note passing or going to another room.
To me the big draw of IRL sessions is physically being in the same place as your friends, since there's plenty of non-game stuff happening too. If I'm online I don't have that, so I want the game experience to be better, which means getting rid of the shittier aspects of IRL and adding new functionality.

>>96008485
>For me paying $15 here and there to a Patreon artist and downloading their whole catalogue has given me a massive amount of very detailed battlemaps I can use.
I do the same thing. I actually find maps can be a really good source of inspiration when running a game. Like in your image, that little broken crate by the bottom left - there might be something cool in there. Maybe I can use that for something.

>>95970765
This map rules; where did it come from?

>>96015991
I ain't playing pathfinder or 5e
I DM no prep b/x. So there's nothing subscription/service software offers me. Because the math is easy, the tracking is easy and LoS is easy etc etc. The only limiting thing about using TTS is that the drawing resolution is poor under high zoom, so I cannot easily add low level detail to a map.

>>96022520
I made it using dungeondraft and 2-minute tabletop cyberpunk assets. It was a 3 level facility for a sci-fi game. Here's level 1

>>96023966
and level 2.
I made the hole in the middle to be an alternate way of getting down, but in actual play no player wanted to go down the dark hole so it ended up not mattering.

>>96023736
>>96001811
I tried tabletop sim and that took more time to use and was more complicated than just using roll20

>>96023736
>no prep b/x
Do you run premades?
Because that's not possible otherwise.
LoS also isn't easy unless all your dungeon rooms are just big empty rooms or your players never leave each others' sides.

>>95968219 (OP)
My battle maps are just sketches with scribbles on it and cut pieces of colored papers to represent dynamic surface changes like holes, lava, frozen ground, water, etc. I have a few match boxes filled with different colors. My players already instinctively understand each one of them.

I'm not home rn, but it's essentially pic related

>>95968219 (OP)
I like making really detailed maps but my players almost never appreciate it. Its still a fun hobby though, just loading up a movie or TV show on my side monitor and Tiled or DungeonDraft on my main monitor and cranking out a map or two.

I have learned to mostly make generic maps though. Stuff like a generic inn or a forest clearing or a small bridge over a river is evergreen and can be used over and over and players are mostly stupid enough to not notice.

Bro where can I get modern battle maps? Modern day stuff

>>96034365
Same place you get any other maps? Find an artist who does modern ones and follow them, check comments and community sections and you'll likely find others.