Thread 95983384

I was talking with a friend of mine and we were discussing about "MtG history". In my opinion, near 2018/19 most of the formats of MtG were in decline and the existence of a stable format created by the players like Commander is the reason why it has not become a more "niche" game. Instead my friend considers EDH something harmful to MtG, causing in these years a lot of power creep and the decline of more competitive formats, like Modern or Standard. Your opinion on this?

>>95983384 (OP)
Both are true. EDH is why the game was able to keep going, but it’s also why that has turned out to be a bad thing.

Standard is a marketing tactic disguised as a "format".

>>95983384 (OP)
Most people wouldn't be playing if not for edh
It exists and is popular because wotc fucked the other formats for short sighted greed and until recently was a player run format

>>95983384 (OP)
EDH killed mtg by replacing casual 1v1 play, and completely overtaking every good format in popularity. Don't get me wrong, MTG is doing great financially. It's just that the game as it existed pre 2018 has been crushed by the weight of EDH players and their total lack of care for what makes the game what it is.

I would much, MUCH rather watch something I love die forgotten and at the tail end, past its prime, than for it to be resuscitated as a deformed monstrosity that bears resemblance in name and card borders only. EDH rewards the worst kind of playstyles, and punishes the best. Personally I never cared for it a decade ago but now I loathe it. It has created a playerbase so retarded and averse to good plays that they don't even care if cards are broken. They don't care if a set breaks the entire theme of the fucking setting, all they care is that their gay ass little self insert gets to "do they thang".

That's not what a FUCKING tcg is about. You should be frantically trying to chip down your opponents 20 life while keeping track of cards in hand and hoping you have enough mana to answer their next threat. Not frotting around with your gay little buddies and their 100 card, 1000 lb deck of gay bullshit.

>>95983384 (OP)
EDH extended the life of the game.
Inarguably blue action denial being the main strategy for most players in vanilla killed the game. It turned a fun time into "lol you just can't play the game at all anymore" and Wizards were too much of a chicken shit company to piss off blue tards.

>>95983540
Every deck has "action denial" bub. Blue isn't even the best at it.

>>95983547
I'm retarded and said deck instead of color

Don't frogspam on /tg/.

>>95983384 (OP)
If you want player-run formats consider an EDH offshoot like Canadian or Pauper.

Financially if you are a hasbro Stockholder?
Saved it beyond imagination.
If you Are a player?
Hahahaha bud. Aaaah hahaha. Just be glad the other options are so much fucking worse.

>>95983384 (OP)
By 2011 most of the formats were in decline. This is what non-Commanderfags don't want to admit.

Magic was created before the internet was a thing. They expected people would never be able to make homogenized metadecks. As soon as the internet made that a reality the competitive aspect of magic was dead. Outside of Commander and drafting there's no such thing as building "your" deck because whether you play on arena or in person you will always run into someone running a netdeck that will stomp you within 3-4 turns. Very few players wanted to play a game like this, and this was what Magic already was by 2011.

The reason most people migrated to Commander was because it was the only playable format left if you weren't a tard who wanted to autopilot metadecks and pretend you were big brain for winning with them. WOTC just noticed most of the playerbase was playing this fanmade format and officially pivoted company attention to it in 2011.

Commander is the only reason Magic still exists. If it wasn't invented, the playerbase would've continued to dwindle to near nothing during the 2010s and if it hadn't folded in paper by 2020 covid would've killed it. If you're a non-commander player you shouldn't hate commander because it's literally the only reason you still get to play your unpopular formats in the first place.

>>95983384 (OP)
It saved MtG long enough for Hasbro to realize that all the REAL money is in Universe Beyond crossover sloppa. They cant even keep Final Fantasy on the shelves and the UB secret lairs almost always sell out in minutes. The people have spoken. They want non-stop goyslop and they want it NOW

>>95983539
normal screeching from usual suspect

It opened up the game to *personality* decks and appreciating the *story* of the gameplay/order of how people play rather than trying to 1v1 tryhard win. There are so many strategies in MTG, it needed a playground for them to play at difference paces and EDH was that. Now I only draft

>>95983384 (OP)
it saved the game financially and killed it spiritually

>>95983539
did you pay the one

>>95985447
Man, never thought i would read the most real and based statement on /tg/.

This is the fucking truth. I was playing standar at first becasue it was fun but then people just played the same decks over and over again and by 2012 shit was hitting the fan so fast and nobody wanted to pay the money just to not play the meta deck and not have fun either.

>>95986658
Always carry two spears.

>>95986807
Indeed... Still enjoy commander games with friends from time to time. The trick is not being a faggot about it.

It transformed it.

>>95986875
it raped it.

>>95983384 (OP)
Pandering to Commander was objectively a great business move and it's essentially the only thing keeping WotC (and by extension Hasbro) afloat, but the damage it's caused to every other format has been devastating and is essentially irreparable. Whether or not that's a net good depends on whether you care about those formats or if you just care that the game has continued to exist.
Though given what we've seen from WotC over the past 5-6 years, sometimes I wonder if dead is better.

>>95983384 (OP)
Magic killed itself by making normal formats so shit

>>95989408
Dead is usually better because at least everyone can move on and create something new instead of circling the drain for the rest of time.
But culture in general is just things recycled from yesterdecade now

>>95989408
>but the damage it's caused to every other format
Except premodern

>>95985447
As someone who got into EDH in 2019 and has played nothing else, this is a pretty interesting take I've never seen. I've heard magic was dwindling at that point, but I never knew netdecking was such a prevalent problem in the early 2010s.

It definitely makes a lot of sense why people liked EDH.

>>95983405
I agree. EDH really should've not been officially supported by Wizards, but at the same time I feel like Magic's "death" was inevitable with how much Wizards kept pushing shit and power-creeping things.

>>95985520
I wonder how many FF buyers actually play the game. Not just EDH, but the actual fucking game.

Because it feels like all the Secret Lairs and Cross-overs are just collectors that wanted the shiny art than actual players.

>>95990143
I still maintain that getting officially supported was the worst thing to ever happen to the format.

>>95983384 (OP)
EDH saved magic
Commander killed it and is raping the corpse

>try to return to magic after not playing for years with some precon and some friends who play commander regularly
>game ends in like 5 turns to an infinite combo or some everything proof creature card with a fucking essay worth of text
I miss when we all just played shitty nonmeta 60 card decks.

>>95983384 (OP)
I think games now just aren't what they used to be. People have always pushed games, but now finding and applying what was meta is so easy in any game, it makes everything else pointless. This is especially true in card games. EDH was the only escape from that reality, but introduced a ton more problems. I think power creep would happen regardless. The most pushed cards were made for modern and legacy specifically to push new packs in comp formats. Gaming is dead, and women,trannies, and teenagers killed it.

>>95983384 (OP)
I'm not sure how much of the power creep in standard is due to EDH and how much is WotC just upping the power of the cards to get people to buy more new stuff. FIRE design is the main culprit, but a lot of the cards that have been really broken in standard aren't even that good in EDH, since stuff like burning down one opponent quickly is a lot better when you have one opponent with 20 life instead of 3 with 40. Meanwhile, tax effects aren't very good in standard but great value in EDH.
The most obvious effect of EDH on other formats is the increase in the amount of legendary creatures, especially multicolor ones, but that doesn't necessarily lead to powercreep by itself.

>>95983539
>That's not what a FUCKING tcg is about. You should be frantically trying to chip down your opponents 20 life while keeping track of cards in hand and hoping you have enough mana to answer their next threat. Not frotting around with your gay little buddies and their 100 card, 1000 lb deck of gay bullshit.
But that is more or less how you play commander as well. Maybe not specifically whittling an opponent down by repeated damage, because that's less effective when you have 3 opponents, but you still have to build a boardstate that lets you win (usually either being able to swing for lethal against all players in one turn or quick succession, or comboing off to kill off all opponents at once) while having answers to stop the opponents from doing the same to you.
Sure, if you defìne true Magic as just casting Lightning Bolt until the opponent is dead, that's not really going to work in commander, but that's very narrow definition of the game and it's not like there aren't standard/modern/legacy decks that win by comboing.

>>95985447
How popular is/was draft IRL?

>>95991086
before commander was pretty fun. After commander people just try to put draft and the "only" alternative to play 1v1 formats in Magic again. The Only way draft is enjoyable now is that all the participants want to draft and no one is a faggot about "BeInG ThE bEttEr FormAt".

same old , same old.

>>95990734
Don't worry. >>95983539
faggot just doesnt have the mental capability to play againts 3 other players at the same time. He is just brainrotted to just play 1v1 because its "easier".

>>95990169
Of course because the vast mayority of players can afford to play more than one format and keep up with its meta and current state.
Fuck off and cope with the fact that commander players are the ones buying the thing so they have their shinies. Let some casuals enjoy a format for once you goober.

>>95990242
This woudnt had happened if it wasnt for the fucking creeps and fucking Rudys complaining about muh collectible whn they banned the mana rocks.

>>95983384 (OP)
Just a funny story but my casual friend who only plays commander was pissed that it became sanctioned and said wotc is killing magic. I lold hard.

>>95990169
>edh isn't the game
Then pretty much no one. If people want 1v1 play it's better in pretty much every single system; having a core mechanics of your game being "your deck is required to have at least 33% bricks" is fucking terrible for trying to have consistent, skill based play, and nowhere is that more evident in the mulligan rules. Real card games don't have mulligans. Lands were a necessary experiment early in the life of tcgs but they're a fucking relic in 2025.

>>95983384 (OP)
I miss playing 60 card Magic so much bros. I still have all my old decks from high school in the 2010s, but all of my friends I still play Magic with have long since taken all of theirs apart for more muh EDH. I could never do the same, I've always bought more copies of cards if I wanted to use them in EDH even if I had full playsets. I could never let go of the single object that finally let my autistic ass develop genuine friends. They often say how they miss it too when I bring this up, but they never bother spending a night after work making one when they could simply buy yet another pre built EDH deck. Building for EDH is "easier" so people never end up going back. It's like a drug really, this format. You become complacent in its mediocrity.

>>95985447
The internet and especially smartphones ruined a lot of things.

>>95993903
EDH ruined my playgroup too. We used to have so much fun playing different 60 card decks. We all had a numch woth different themes, different power levels... now all anyone builds is shitty commander decks. I've just stopped playing entirely, especially after that god awful djsrespectful """lord of the rings""" set. Haven't played a single game of magic since then.

>>95993967
Correct. My only hope is that they're a millenial/zoomer fad and that the internet as a whole gets shitty enough with bots, AI, and jeets that future generations will just abandon it and go back to being normal again. I fucking miss a phone free world so bad.

>>95985447
>formats were in decline
I'd rather have the game die than become Fortnite EDH faggotry.

>>95994626
You're always free to fuck off to another TCG instead of being an angry and powerless dork staying in a game you profess to hate when you have literally dozens of other 1v1 original IP TCGs to go muck about in.

Anti-UB/Commander crybabies are the biggest retards in Magic.

>>95995162
>w-well you can j-just l-leave!
Way ahead you, cuck. Sold my collection years and years ago. Sorry, I joined a thread discussing Magic and didn't circlejerk like it's reddit.
I'll let you go back to discussing how epic your new Ronald McDonald commander is and how much he combos with your Optimus Prime.
Yeah, I'm thinking MtG is heckin' saved.

>>95983384 (OP)
The birth of the format saved it, WotC catering to it killed it.

>>95995950
>I t-totally left magic years ago!
>that's why it still lives rent free in my head and I talk about it online!
>I still hate that commander took over and keep up to date how non-magic IPs are taking over too!
>but I'm totally over this game!

>>95983384 (OP)
Both, but its important to recognize that EDH was only able to 'kill' other formats because they were bad and flawed. The majority of the playerbase switched over to EDH as their format of choice because standard was ALWAYS a scam, modern was largely calcified. The optimal deck compositions had largely been set in stone, with maybe a couple of new cards that mattered to one of these decks being printed a year, and because everyone was competing for the same keystone cards and optimal mana bases getting into the format was both uninteresting AND expensive. You paid hundreds of dollars just to have the exact same deck as the guy across from you, in different sleeves.

EDH is simply a more fun format to build and play, which is why it ate the other formats alive and the MOMENT that WOTC gave it even a hint of official recognition it exploded in popularity. The ability to use the cards you already paid for? The ability to have gimmicky, weird decks that still have a chance of winning because you don't need to be hyper-optimized? being cheaper to build because its a singleton format and you no longer need the best versions of every card because 1 mana difference in CMC is no longer a make or break? All pure positives from a player perspective.

You can't even blame EDG for the forniteification of MTG, because while yes it DOES such you are kidding yourselves if you think we wouldn't be getting Universes Beyond sets even if EDH had never existed. EDH didn't cause the crossovers to be effective marketting to tempt the whales into rare-chasing, thats its own problem.

>>95985447
>>95993967
Now that you mention it, this is true for all of the big 3. Yugioh had forums and magazines where people would post decklists but looking back now, they were poorly optimized compared to how razor thin the decks are ran now for those older formats. Only saving grace is the game's banlists continuously made new formats.
Pokemon and magic are similar in the fact that no matter what happens, so long as the internet exists, the best possible way to play a deck in modern and similar formats will always be the same plus or minus 2-3 cards and the amount played. This causes a lot of copycats and small, less diverse formats which, as you said, few people would want to play.
Commander fixes this by having 100 card variance and the ability to at least play at a table with something you consider "Your deck" even if it's unoptimized because of how slow the game can go in many situation.

>>95994588
I wish this would happen but the outlook is grim with how apps are made now. Its all gambling addiction. They set it up where you get 4 losses then 1 win and make you think you're on a streak. Even tiktok and similar apps do this by showing you stuff the algorithm KNOWS you dont like, or might not like, and then after 8 shitty videos it shows you 1 that it KNOWS you will like. Every flick of your finger is the same as a slot machine pull, they just have to give you a win every so often to keep the dopamine flowing.

>>95994588
The internet being shitty cannot be the cause of people leaving the internet, because it is become too tightly interwoven into too many peoples lives. We consider it shitty because we are old enough to remember what the early internet was like, or (horror beyond horrors) what life without the internet at all was like.
Everything we consider shitty about the internet was molded that way to be exploitative, and the zoomers have never known any other way things can be. They can't ever really reject it, because they don't have an alternative to it on top of not having the power to enforce such a decision. In this day and age, anyone who *does* willingly cut themselves off from the internet is essentially crippling themselves, because so much of what happens now revolves around online spheres.

For the internet as we know it to collapse, one of two things would have to happen:
1) The government steps in and introduces a massive wave of legislation that disrupts the meta of the current internet, breaking up the foundations that current online industries are built upon. Trust-busting amazon, making it illegal to sell someone's private data without paying them a cut, etc. Shit like that. Something that knocks out supporting pillars of the way things are and forces a reset.

2) Infrastructure collapse that makes the internet no longer able to be supported, circumstances making the choices for us whether we want it or not. For this to happen, society as we know it either already has crumbled, or will swiftly do so following the collapse of an essential communications medium.

>>95985447
this is what magic was from it's inception.
i can remember exactly one summer playing 4e and ice age with friends before everyone with rich parents pulled way ahead and then after mowing lawns like a slave to catch up every nerd with a computer dad destroying me with unfathomable tactics they got from the primative www internet.
every fake genius deck builder who had internet access before it was ubiquitous eventually got their comeuppance but 30 years later they still dream about having that winged boots advantage over their peers.
still as per usual the only thing that ultimately matters is
>do you have friends to play with
and per usual the /tg/ response is "no, i need rando pugs at the lgs to dominate"

>>95998311
This is the answer. Traditional deck-building is always going to be a sweatier, more narrow and (usually) more expensive affair. That's why it's historically been so hard for casuals to penetrate into it. You either embrace that and get Yu-Gi-Oh, or fund your card game's version of EDH, and watch it dominate.

>>95983441
>Most people wouldn't be playing if not for edh
EDH players are low quality. They don't even like the game

>>95983539
You're correct
Having gigantic life totals with a recurring commander card and players that take interaction personally just introduces board game problems to card games. Most EDH players do not have the emotional control to compensate. So the game becomes stalling until a big combo happens. It's fucking boring
1v1 is what the game core was designed around and the pacing is much much better instead of having people antsy about attacking because the loser sits out for two hours

>>95983540
Mono blue permission was never the main strategy for most players and people who complain about counterspells are shit at the game anyway. Blue is needed to stop combo decks from completely dominating but they deal with permanents badly, that's the trade off. It's no more "denial" than blocking a creature or hitting an artifact with removal. Even reducing a player to 0 life stops them from doing something.

>>96000870
Literally just reprint cards more lol

>>95983539
Based and true.
I appreciate the commander trannies screeching in response though.

>>95983384 (OP)
Formats become shit when too many people play. A larger playerbase inevitably optimizes the fun out of the game. Then a new format starts up and the game becomes enjoyable again.
Card games are, at their core, the most fun when it's just a group of people playing an inefficient and objectively bad deck. Because the fun doesn't come from the game but the people you play it with. The idle conversations. The socialization.

>>95983384 (OP)
>>96003757
I see EDH & Tournaments on opposite ends of the scale. EDH is casual while tournies are inspirational. Thinking regular weekend sportmen vs professional (ie. paid) sport. 99% of people who do basketball do it for fun & exercise but still appreciate the NBA.

>>96004923
Except this isn't like professional sports (or even esports) where there's a huge amount of training required to get to the big time. It's pretty much just having the disposable income to buy whatever you need for your netdeck.

>>95983539
you are correct, you are my battle-brother, and I will shake your hand over this view while the EDH clique screeches

The worst thing is, I liked EDH. Commander is not EDH. EDH died when WotC started printing cards and decks explicitly FOR it, that was the beginning of the end of EDH. Commander replaced it, WotC assimilated commander even before the official takeover of Commander, the Commander RC were faggots for a long time, and the entirely optional casual alternative I used to like was dead before its corpse then infected and killed magic as a whole.

Well I still prefer limited to edh anyday. Edh is just nice if you got a cool pod and actually enjoy playing with them. It is sad that mtg is fornite cardboard now but I guess they need that to stay afloat. Been playing since Tempest , have taken hiatus in buying cards and playing , sometimes for more than 5 years before 2011 edh mainstreamed. I never sold my collection so I got some old rl shit that always wow timmies at the cumander table. They cant believe I got old revised duals for like 20 - 30 bucks and my Gaeas cradle by a simple trade back when Invasion came out. Prices and the rl are beyond retarded now.


I hope to see mtg implode one day fr idgaf all my shit can become worthless , the amount of seething in card hoarders will be a sight to behold.

Unironically bought 2 Final Fagacy collector boxes at msrp. Craked one and got a surge Tidus. Will prob leave the other sealed and sell it next year for like 2k or someshit.

btw my best mtg memories have been playing limited. I won my local onslaught prelease back when you had to build your deck with 2 or 3 boosters and a tournament 75 card sealed deck.

good times.

>>95985734
i dont see any screeching though?

>>95985447
Even meta decks can't be just autopiloted. You'd know if you actually played at that time. Stop lying.

>>95989743
>Premodern
We're not discussing fake formats, Anon.

>>95983384 (OP)
Sort of both. It killed MTG but saved wotc financially. The game was always too competitive for the majority of people, too many feel bad moments when they lose. Or when they couldn't do anything and never stood a chance. With commander, anyone can be a winner, you can bring the biggest pile of shit deck and still win. You always have a chance, if the other 3 take each other out. That is the sole reason for its popularity.

>>96001184
>blue is bad at dealing with permanents
Blue has gotten much better at that over the years.

the moment they started printing cards for the format in 2011 was the beginning of the end. wotc can't resist the temptation of printing busted cards for legacy formats, and because it's highlander they have to make them turbo-broken to inflate the value of the cards as people only need to buy 1 instead of 4. taking EDH into account at all from an r&d perspective was the beginning of the current powercreep doomspiral that magic is in.

Commander killed edh. Once they started printing cards made specifically for commander and every set had half a dozen broken overpowered made-for-commander chase cards in it for the whales, the game became less about running weird stuff and making it work and it became more about running the same slop good stuff as everyone else so you can win more, especially if you pull one of those $70 commander staples you can "build"around (same good stuff slop as any other deck but this time with a few ability doublers and tribal synergies)

Canadian Highlander is the superior 100 singles format. Nobody will ever change my mind on this.

you fools wotc was protecting us from scalpers by printing blaragorn and tranegolas. if you would have bought more we’d be playing with dollar mythic blouds and tranifas.

>>95983539
>I would much, MUCH rather watch something I love die forgotten and at the tail end, past its prime, than for it to be resuscitated as a deformed monstrosity that bears resemblance in name and card borders only.
I'm surprised a majority of people don't have this opinion in the current year of remake/reboot crap. I'd much rather have a series or thing I like just fade away and the only thing remaining is quality. Apparently many more people prefer that thing to be a zombie devoid of quality because "duhhh at least its alive???". I don't get it.
I feel the same way about Star Trek. I'd rather nothing have gotten made after Enterprise. Let that shit die.

>>96020494
Honestly I have reached the mindset that something dying forgotten and be resuscitated as a deformed monstrosity are literally the same thing. All the new aberrations are not the thing I used to love any more than a crack fanfiction written by a nobody on some oscure forum is.

>>95983411
Sure. But doesnt it also make it easier for newcomers who want to get into competitive, as the cards for the format are more easily acessible from current products rather than from secondary market?
Im not saying that people who want to play standard will not also buy from secondary market, but they can buy boosters and get some dopamine here and there.

>>96022173
yes but wotc only wants casual fans

Just play Judge Tower

>>95983384 (OP)
EDH is good.
Commander is bad.

>>95983384 (OP)
EDH saved magic
wizards making direct products to EDH, ruined magic

EDH is fine as a casual offshoot, but focusing on it is killing MTG. People are realizing that modern-day EDH is just trying to ape Yu-Gi-Oh (everything ever printed is legal) while being the inferior system for doing that. MTGs competitive scene was formulated around the block systems. It allows for much tighter control over the mechanics and metas. There's nothing wrong with that. I think it's actually the superior model since it incentivizes more creativity from the game design team when you don't have to worry about some obscure, game ruining interaction with a card printed during the Bush administration.

>>96035999
>trying to ape yugioh
this is the fucking thing wotc sucks fucking dick at. yugioh has mostly learned to segment off sets of powerful card mechanics well enough. cards from one set mostly won't interact with cards from another set. wotc just truly doesn't give a shit because they don't have to worry about balance or banning.

>>95994588
>My only hope is that they're a millenial/zoomer fad
Boy, are you in for a rude awakening.

Why do anti-EDH fags like to pretend the format is at fault of UBfaggotry? WotC is owned by Hasbro, this was going to happen regardless of format. Look at fucking Monopoly and its gazillion crossovers.

>>96036994
Its because they conflate UB and Commander with both low investment players who Magic is a secondary hobby (the kinds of people who would of played for a few years during school and then tapped out once rotation hit a few to many times) or Whales who need to purchase every single new thing that comes out.

The idea is if the game was focused on players who just buy cards to play competitive then the need to make things like UB would of never come up. Which ignores that UB was pushed for by Aaron Forsythe who wanted to work with the IP he grew up with.
If anything the people to blame are the the "its just a card only the mechanics matters" guys who made their way into the company.

>>96031215
It ruined EDH too.
>>96037393
Which is extra funny because the EDH/Commander players I know who hate UB actually tend to vote with their wallets and just don't buy it. The competitionfags on the other hand all make lots of noise about how much they hate UB but throw money at every bit of stupid crossover shit that winds up in the meta.

>>96036994
Unbound sucks but it sells - Hasbro accountants

>>96035999
>MTGs competitive scene was formulated around the block systems. It allows for much tighter control over the mechanics and metas. There's nothing wrong with that. I think it's actually the superior model since it incentivizes more creativity from the game design team when you don't have to worry about some obscure, game ruining interaction with a card printed during the Bush administration.
WOTC killed off blocks because historically, the follow up sets for blocks always sold worse than the first set. Single sets are bad for a number of reasons, but nobody working at WOTC has prioritized the long term health of the game over immediate revenue for years.

>Go to my LGS' Standard Night
>No trannies, mostly normal guys in their 30s with jobs and families
>Go to Commander Night at the same store
>Literally 10-20% of the population are trannies and another 40% are the smelliest neckbeards imagineable

I thought you guys were memeing about EDH trannies but its actually real. What the fuck compels trannies to this format specifically.

>>96035999
Fuck rotation. It's comparable to World of Warcraft's "new update! Now the gear you spent months obtaining is now obsolete at end of day" ad infinitum levels of invalidating.

>>96052220
It seems like there's no way that makes people happy

>eternal format
Powercreep to sell cards, banlist used to enforce soft rotation so your old deck might not be as playable as you think

>rotation
Having to buy a new deck every so often

>competitive lcg
They all fucking died. Something about the board game business model doesn't work with competitive card games.

>>95996553
>why are you still in the game
>I'm not, I sold it all
>but you still talk about it
You're literally retarded

>>96052454
The issue is you just gotta pick on and accept the market cap.

>>95990528
>game ends in like 5 turns to an infinite combo or some everything proof creature card with a fucking essay worth of text
Naive fool, you have not even begun to see true essays

The secret to fixing things is to unify the ruleset of both EDH and 1v1. 60 card highlander with a commander. 25 life total. Modern onward cardpool. No rotation. Applied to both formats.

Now EDH players can use their commander decks for regular 1v1 play and vice versa. Commander's in 1v1 will keep decks from becoming monotonous outside of top competative. The ability to drift back and forth between the formats effortlessly will bring the gentleman's agreement to not be a sweaty tryhard faggots into 1v1.

You won't even notice the missing 39 cards in commander since half of your stack is just identical or near identical copies of other cards in your deck. This'll let you even further personlize or theme decks since which individual cards you pick will matter more. They'll fit in normal sized deckboxes and shuffling won't be a nightmare. The lower life total means games won't take a fucking hour and playgroups could always bump it up if they want it to last longer.

>>96052727
Anon being a sweaty tryhard already affects commander play, its why CEDH and the ranking system were put into place.
All you doing is ostensibly making companions a required part of 60 card when companions are one of if not the worst mechanic in the game and are rightfully banned every time they cause a problem.

>>96052899
>and are rightfully banned every time they cause a problem.
There's your answer. If anything gets out of hand just ban it. You'll always have tryhards no matter what. Just retain the stigma against it already in place and it'll be fine. As for the ranking part, the system can remain just as it is. All I did is lower the card count a bit which should have little if any effect on how bullshit smothering tithe is. Anything crazy pops up and we just tweak the list a bit but I doubt my changes would shake things up much. The main point of the change is just to make single and commander not require entirely different decks and deckbuilding mindsets. Right now normal magic and commander are worlds apart not just gameplaywise but deckwise aswell. If you have a friend playing commander and you want to try and get him to play some regular games with you, he needs to construct an entirely new deck. He probably doesn't even have the resources so you'd need to go buy a bunch of expensive copies of cards he already has and retool his entire strategy from the ground up since there's no commander. No skills or experience carry over. It's practically a new game. You'd have just as much luck asking them to play kaijudo. If the decks and rules are the same with the only change being the number of players, it makes the transition easier, and that ease means more players, and alot of the good parts of commander can be carried over just by proximity since people will be jumping back and forth. They'll bring those casual fun vibes to normal games.

Sure you can technically do that now, but commander decks suck for 1v1, and retards need structure. If you try and explain a bunch of house rule to them and they'll bitch and wine. Give them a format with clearly written rules and alot of flexibility without too much effort on their part and they'll be more receptive. Jimmy can just slap his meme goblin deck on the table and play some 1v1 with zero fuss.

>>96052727
it's casual play anyways; make your own rulings.

>>96052727
>The ability to drift back and forth between the formats effortlessly will bring the gentleman's agreement to not be a sweaty tryhard faggots into 1v1.
uhhh

>>96052727
You are so retarded it's unreal.

>>96035999
To be honest, I've actually been having more fun with modern YGO than Commander lately. It's nice to have a non-singleton format that people actually play.

>>96052727
Yeah I'm never going to play a format like this and neither will 90% of the playerbase.

>>96050920
Yeah, at some point, they're going to run out of crossovers that people give a shit about. There's also a high chance people stop giving a shit about crossovers before they run out of crossovers too. Maybe we have to accept that TCGs are a millenioomer meme.

>>96061028
let magic die while it still has some honor left

>>96062648
I think part of the problem is that EDH is good for Wizards, but not as profitable for stores. It seems like most players don't buy much after they've assembled their EDH deck.

>>96052652
That card isn't even good, it's just final boss bait.

>>96064749
commander is amazing for stores. the market rate of precons and premium singles is insane. they all made a killing opening final fantasy. no one is buying those fucking chocobos for standard, modern, or legacy.

>>96051611
universes beyond.

>>96055898
> To be honest, I've actually been having more fun with modern YGO than Commander lately.
There’s no way. Yugioh is straight solitaire. I wish Yugioh had rotation. The actual card mechanics are fun. But the actual gameplay is just praying for hand traps and hoping some fag wiffs on their 15 minute combo turn. At least you can reject those fags from your pod in commander.

>>95983384 (OP)
I remember being introduced to it when i got back into playing around return to ravnica. At that time it was just a way to get more people playing, like gfs or friends or whatever, instead of just two dudes playing.
Fast forward to now and it seems to be the defacto way of playing which is weird to me. I came from 4th edition, so idk, im old. As a casual collector my opinion doesnt matter to you or wotc. Really sucks that some scalper has been actively raiding every walmart in the area, no takir or ff for me i guess but gee whiz i can buy aetherdrift all day.

>>96066180
I mostly engage through Master Duel, which automates a lot of the confusing stuff. It's an enjoyable change of pace.

>>96064749
>It seems like most players don't buy much after they've assembled their EDH deck.
Might be store dependant, because the EDH players at my store are complete crack addicts

>>96019460
>Black Cloud and Tifas
As retarded as modern SE are this would have never happened. Ever since DB Evolution the nips have become very anal that when adaptations of their franchises are done, they’re the ones with the final say on whether it goes ahead or not.

>>96036818
Only partially true. While they’re more aware of it nowadays (from my perspective ever since the Dragon Rulers happened and despite many attempts at banning the cards around them before banning them directly in 2014), they still fuck-up enough once in a blue moon where they’re forced to take drastic action.
>Had a copy of Grinder Golem from Duelist Pack: Jesse Anderson for about 8 years in one of my folders
>Offload most of my cards around 2017
>Links and Firewall Dragon happens
>What was once a 50 cent card becomes $200 dollarydoos overnight
>Friend of a friend goes full retard and buys mine for $500 dollarydoos because so few of them existed in Aussieland
>Pic when I hear Firewall is eventually banned

>>96061028
>Yeah, at some point, they're going to run out of crossovers that people give a shit about.
Highly unlikely, sadly. Fortnite isn't anywhere near running out of crossover IPs. Skibidi Toilet alone could be an entire set.

>>96070744
The issues a are twofold
First is that the IP needs to be available. So far Wizards has a pattern of applying for older IP that while keeping large amounts of cultural relevancy is on the downturn or are part of a larger negotiation if leaks are to be believed. The one exception to this in Spider-Man has partly bit them in the ass on account of someone along the Marvel side of things realizing the value of the IP in regards to their own digital card game and thus revoking the digital rights, also indicating that they find the physical card rights to be of a lower value. In truth Wizards is the side seeking out these crossovers and so is the one assuming the financial burden.
This all limits the amount of viable IPs. Skibidi Toilet could make a whole set, but would everyone involved be willing to license it out to Wizards and how many are willing to do so.

Second is that there are a lot of IP that could make good secret lairs or commander sets, but not as many as you would think that can make a viable full set with between wizards licensing acquisition habits mentioned above and the way they make sets currently. By that I mean an IP like Final Fantasy is something they could of gotten multiple sets out of, but it was designed as a one and done, likewise they could tap the 40k well at least three more times over, but that is not in Wizards style to do. And again the exception to this in Marvel, has softly blown up in their faces due to the digital issues.
Then you need to take into account that they burn through 6 full sets a year now alongside a constant churn of secret lairs, half of which are UB. Between these two points the current model is highly successful but cannot last in the long term. And by long term I mean 10-15 years out, magics continued existence barring the to likely for comfort but unlikely enough for the shareholders to sleep at night complete collapse of Hasbro, and is neglect of the MTG IP wherever it ends up.

>>95983539
>card borders only.
And not even this anymore because now every type and subtype has their own special frame, not to mention a hundred different showcase variations, so a hand of cards looks like you've mixed together seven different TCGs into one.

>>96069264
>>Pic when I hear Firewall is eventually banned
Now show me pic when I tell you Grinder Golem remains banned while Firewall actually got unbanned (it received an errata).