>If only Feanor haven't died... All races would be still living in peace in Middle-earth

>>95988052 (OP)
Same would apply if Faenor hadn't lived, either.

>>95988052 (OP)
Similar to Heracles, his greatest strength would inevitably lead to his downfall.

>>95988201
>Feanor doesn't live
>The Noldor never come to Middle-earth
>Morgoth ROFLSTOMPS every single elven kingdom and obliterates and enslaves Men forever
Holy retard.

>>95988052 (OP)
> Shows the one place Feanor's sons weren't allowed to come or even know where it exists
Hmmmmmmm

I've never read the book with the name I won't attempt to spell but that Tides of War song by Blind Guardian is very good.

>>95988562
Read the Silmarillion, dweeb.

>>95988577
should I read LotR first? I mostly like books about guys on ships of the space, steam, and air varieties.

>>95988052 (OP)
>haven't
ESL slopthread.

>>95988217
>'greatest' rather than 'great'
Self-replying too.

>>95988612
>Classic LoTR art
>Slop
faggot

>>95988052 (OP)
>Shit take
>Pic unrelated
Better than another Daggerfall ragethread, but that's a pretty low bar.

>>95988052 (OP)
Traditional games?

>>95988416
Not him, but you're very clearly forgetting what happened in Valinor before the Trees were slain.

>>95989427
Yeah, they're those things you neither play or get invited to.

>>95988609
Silmarillion has a ship in space.

Where is the water coming from?

>>95992005
A spring.

>>95992005
Lorefag tears at the Oblivion adaptation.

>>95988052 (OP)
Why are there only buildings and homes inside the city? Where do the people tending those fields live? Do they just sleep out under the hedges or something?

>>95992005
It looks perfectly natural to me, you turbo-autist. Go outside.

>>95992257

Inside the city. That being said, look closer, there are some buildings outside the city walls.

>>95992716

He's asking where the underground water flows from. A good question, actually, Tolkien dun goofed on that one.

>>95992791
Rises up from volcanic sources.

>bumping this awful gay thread
Noldorfag killed /tg/

>>95991901
I don't think I'm forgetting anything. The chronology of events is as follows.
>Feanor creates the Silmarils
>Morgoth steals them
>Flies from Valinor
>Hides in Middle-earth
>Feanor gets extremely angry his creation was stolen and persecutes him to Middle-earth
>A massive orc and balrog army was there ready to destroy the Teleri
>The noldor stopped it when they arrived
If only Feanor had survived, even the Trees could have been resurrected. Fuck Morgoth.

>>95992863

Yeah, no.

>>95993033
Jannies killed /tg/, noldorfag is just a symptom.

>>95991963
That's in LotR though. You didn't skip all the songs, anon, did you?

>>95992257
Elf fields don't need tending, they sow, go home, and wait for harvest time.

>>95988612
Anti AI schizos need to be euthanized. You're braindead, this isn't AI.

>>95993033
Noldorfag is based. Fuck cringey faggots.

>>95993184
If Feanor had survived until Beren and Luthien got Silmaril, he could have defeated Morgoth using it.

>>95993956
I wonder how Fëanor would react to Eärendil flying away with his precious jewel. It would be the autistic meltdown of the millennium.

>>95994157
He would start inventing rockets.

>>95994157
I think Feanor was angrier at Morgoth stealing them than just someone else using them for a good purpose. Is why Manwe cries when he knows Morgoth tricked the Noldor into a lifetime of vengeance. He could have created greater things.

>>95994203
>Will defeat Morgoth
Isn't that Turin's job?

>>95994251
Earendil will beat him in the sky so hard he will fall down, then Turin will finish the job.

>>95988052 (OP)
Did the elves have a plumbing system

>>95994251
>>95994264
Where can I read this whitepill? I didn't remember any mention of Turin defeating Morgoth.

>>95994356
It's not on The Silmarillion because Christopher (mistakenly) made an effort to remove any mentions of Dagor Dagorath, although a coupl of mention of the "Last Battle" still remain.
Versions of the Last Battle can be found throughout the History of Middle-Earth volumes, in bit and pieces, though the wiki page actually shows Tollers' last version of it.
www.tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Dagor_Dagorath#The_Later_Quenta_Silmarillion

>>95994467
Holy shit, this is great. Thanks for showing it to me anon. Why was this removed? Sounds like a very crucial part of the story. Now I feel as if my perspective has changed. Is there anything else besides this that was removed? Or this is a fragment in a lone manuscript?

>>95995724
>Is there anything else besides this that was removed?
It is less about parts being removed and more about Christoper trying to put Tolkien's countless manuscripts into coherent story; which was quite hard considering how much Tolkien was rewriting and editing.
I like that story in Sauron's Defeated (HoMe 9) where Sam says farewell to his now adult daughter.

>>95996524
What books you recommend to get the whole picture together? I always thought these weren't that important.

>>95996551
Depend on what interest you.
Books of Lost Tales can be skipped if you don't care for very early concepts.
Last part (The Peoples of Middle-earth) includes Shibboleth of Feanor, which gives much insight into his character, for example.

>>95996566
>Depend on what interest you.
Is "everything" a valid response? I would like just to not fuck up the order by reading something that I shouldn't before time. Thanks for the Feanor thing though, he and other characters could have whole books just about themselves.

>>95988052 (OP)
TABLETOP GAMES?

>>95996598
I would recommend last books of HoMe then (Morgoth's Ring, War of the Jewels and Peoples of Middle-earth). A lot of it is either unedited material that Christopher used to compile Silm or parts that he couldn't fit like Wanderings of Hurin, tale about the fall of men or essay about elven marriages and pregnancies.

>>95996647
Your mother in my bed.

>>95996680
Thanks anon. Is there any important release before heading to those?

>>95994244
>He could have created greater things.
he could not. he himself states this. he poured everything he had into them. much like Yavanna can never make the Two Trees again, the Silmarils cannot be topped.

Feanor would have never lived, because he is retarded and foolhardy. He would have inevitably gotten himself ambushed because he cannot fucking control his temper and his contrarianism. If Morgoth shone a laser pointer at a wall and told Feanor the Valar made him too pussy to catch the red dot he'd have ran headfirst into it and broken his neck.

>>95991909
I play more than you. I was just asking how does op relate to playing traditional games?

>>95996902
>t. some dull retard who is tricked by Morgoth every day

>>95993184
Now list out those events if Feanor hadn't lived.

>>95996929
>he says, without any clue who he's even talking to
Tells me you're lying, nogames.

>>95993220
Do you seriously not know about springs? That's a rhetorical question, you're obviously an ignorant retard, so don't bother replying.

>>95988052 (OP)
Nah elves are fucking fags. Do it again morgoth.

>>95998204
>ungoliant kills the trees
>morgoth stomps middle earth to dust

>>95993184
>If only Feanor had survived, even the Trees could have been resurrected.
You mean the thing he specifically refused to do?

>>95998541
Except Morgoth only killed the Trees as a distraction to steal the Silmarils. He only went south because his plans to corrupt Feanor had failed. The Noldor only listened to Morgoth's fear-mongering because Feanor legitimised it. He only spread the fear-mongering to set the Noldor against the Valar, so he could more easily steal the Silmarils.

Without Feanor, there's no Silmarils, and with no Silmarils there's nothing Morgoth could try to steal.

>>95998957
Assuming Feanor isn't born, his mother doesn't die either, so she and Finwë remain the leaders of the Noldor with her husband not devoting himself to his sons, so Morgoth has to corrupt them instead of seething contrarian Feanor.

>>95988562
So are all other songs of that album

>>95999474
Except Morgoth started corrupting the Noldor because he wanted to steal the Silmarils. Do you see yet how Feanor not existing wouldn't result in the outcome as you suggested >>95988416

>big bad wastes all his time and power engaging in a long and convoluted scheme to.....get a couple of gems some elf dude made because they're pretty
>the elves also are willing to self-genocide and die to the last to keep said gems because..........uhhhh
The Silmaretarded

>>96002390
Stick to DnDone and Warhammerslop.

>>96002172
The Silmarils didn't turn Morgoth evil. He was already planning to do something horrible before being released. Your whole premise is wrong from the start.

>>95988052 (OP)

>>96002172
>>96002390
And one more thing I almost forgot. But Feanor persecuted Morgoth not only for the stealing of the Silmarils, but also for slaying his Father, Finwe.

>>96003315
Nobody said the Silmarils turned him evil. The point is that he did all that he did after the Valar first defeated because he wanted the Silmarils. It's impossible to claim the events after would've transpired the same if Feanor was or wasn't there, he's a pivotal character.

>>95998957
His favourite pastime up to that point was extinguishing light sources. Silmaril or not he would have done it

>>95989427
eat shit faggot

>>96004933
And he'd have been chased to Middle-earth by the Valar and caught again. The Valar only refused to fight because Feanor opposed their wishes, murdered his kin at the docks, and sailed to Middle-earth without permission.

>>95996647
Make some friends.

>>96005118
yes and he would not care. he was born a contrarian.

>>96005118
>let melkor into valinor
>he melkors all over the place
>refuse to pursue him because you're still butthurt over feanor refusing to give you the silmarils
>go even further and forbid him from pursuing melkor, just to twist the knife because you reeeeally wanted those silmarils and the fact feanor refused you was a massive blow to your ego
It's insane how petty and contemptible the Valar are in the Silmarillion. Just a bunch of butthurt teenagers. Even worse, the author is on their side so we never even get any in-universe acknowledgement of their tyranny.

>>96006006
Not the point, though. This whole thing started because one anon said that Morgoth would've taken over Middle-earth if Feanor hadn't lived.

>>96006122
Yeah, but it's all handwaved away by the whole "it's the way the Song of Eru plays out".

>>96004899
>The point is that he did all that he did after the Valar first defeated because he wanted the Silmarils.
No. He did it because he hated everything and everyone, and had a powerful envy towards others since he couldn't possess anything, or create it. He felt humiliated after his first failure to dominate creation and wanted payback. If it wasn't the Silmarils, it would have something else he would have wanted to possess or corrupt, just like he did it the first time when the World was uncorrupted.

>>96006122
This is not how it works. The Valar refused to persecute Morgoth into Middle-earth because if they did and started a war all over again Middle-earth would have suffered great destruction just like the first time they persecuted him, and the world was unmade and reborn again. They did it out of compassion for the Children of Eru, both Men and Elves.

>>95988052 (OP)
Why does Aragorn look like Anton Chigurh in this game's cover art

>>96010056
Probably made with AI.

>>96006122
>>let melkor into valinor
should have thrown him out the door of night, but then bitches would whine about injustice
>>he melkors all over the place
fags gonna fag. they don't have to, but they choose to be fags. no one to blame but themselves for being fags
>>refuse to pursue him because you're still butthurt over feanor refusing to give you the silmarils
could suplex him clean through middle-earth, but that would destroy the world, and kind of defeat the whole purpose of creation. feanor polished some rocks in light he could never create and thinks he's hot shit. could redeem his retardation, but wouldn't even if he got the chance.
>>go even further and forbid him from pursuing melkor, just to twist the knife because you reeeeally wanted those silmarils and the fact feanor refused you was a massive blow to your ego
told that dumbass it was a bad idea. he schizos his way into his own exile, killing his own kin and taking their silmarils like the hypocritical bitch that he is. ditches more than half of his companions just because, burns the silmarils he stole so no one goes home, dies immediately, and accomplishes nothing. only positive is he gets to sit in the halls of mandos and watch as his shit-for-brain progeny fuck up exactly as predicted by the valar.

>>96006210
and they're right. he would have and then the valar would've come and destroyed him.
touching humans would probably be the reason, since they're illuvatar's vision for middle earth

The LOTR setting lore is pretty bad, ngl. I didn't really need to know that the scary big bad ancient evil was a whiny shithead who got his ass beat by elves and spent hundreds of years trying to get some jewels because he was literally like a retarded kid looking at shiny keys jingling. Then I need to hear about the multiple extended family trees of elves who all have the same name and same personality.

>>96014506
Go back to your cuckshit books, Martin.

>>96015050
Just because you don't like drinking pee doesn't mean you like eating poop, anon.

>>96015462
But you like both, Martin. You have plenty of scenes in your books of shitting and peeing.

>>96014506
>Satan is jealous God won't let him shape the world on his own
>does his best to sabotage any beauty or niceness for the rest of history
Idk what's hard about that desu

>Not even the fire of Ancalagon the Black, greatest of Morgoth's dragons, could melt this ring, Frodo!
>Oh my Gandalf, Ancalagon must've been terrifying!
>Not really, no. An elf in a flying boat killed him pretty easily, but still.
>Oh. Well, his master sounds dangerous.
>Eh, not really. He spent a long time chasing after some elven gems. Never got them either.
>I bet it took a lot to defeat him!
>Not really, the elves manhandled him in just about every occasion. He never even got those jewels. Could've killed him too, but the Valar said no, they would be the ones to fight him in the War of Wrath, when he summoned up countless legions of orcs and balrogs.
>That must've been a battle for the ages, a desperate triumph for the-
>Nah, Morgoth's guys were wiped out like it was basically nothing. Too bad Sauron got away.
>Oh yes, Sauron, the lord of the rings. I fear him, Gandalf.
>Don't, he's an even bigger bitch than his old master, we're gonna meet an elf here in a few chapters who not only can solo balrogs and all of his ringwraiths, but could easily 1v1 Sauron himself.
>Ringwraiths? Those sound sca-
>Nope, they're pussies too. But trust me when I tell you Frodo that all of these villains are a serious threat to Middle Earth! If Sauron gets his ring we're doomed!
>What happened when Sauron had his ring last time?
>Oh, we curbstomped him, it was tons of fun. You should've been there. *hits pipe*
>So...what exactly is the danger facing Middle Earth? Where's the tension to all this?
>Huh? Tension?

>>95993033
Noldorfag is fucking funny. Autistiscally shit talks people on /tg/ and tells them to go to /v/, then he's also on /v/ to keep at it.

>NoldorCHAD living rent free in the heads of secundaries
Based.

We have Noldorfag yes, but what about Sindarfag?

>>95988609
It doesn't matter.
Same setting, but the time period is so different it's like asking if you need to read It Ends With Us before A Tale of Two Cities, because it's set in the same world.

>>95993956
How do you figure? They're not power amplifying, power giving or anything.
They're just really pretty gems, infused with the light of the Two Trees. The reason they could have saved the trees was because their light came from them.

>>96010056
Reminds me of the old Bakshi version. In any case we've seen worse

>>96016011
>He spent a long time chasing after some elven gems. Never got them either.
>He never even got those jewels.
Are you retarded? The First Age is all about the fact that Morgoth had the Silmarils.

>>96015579
The guy is retarded, but you'd have to be an even bigger retard if you think multiple family trees of people with the same name and same personalities isn't 100% Martin.

>>96017205
>They're just really pretty gems
Not exactly. They seem to have an effect on the bearer because of their primordial light. To what extend that might be is a mystery, but isn't crazy to think Feanor would have found a way to use them properly since he was the original creator, or just to create something new that could have helped defeat Morgoth or halt his power. After all it was one of his sons who made the Rings of Power.

>>96019038
You don't really need convoluted gem or volcano plots to beat morgoth and sauron though, because they're just too damn weak. Tolkien wanked off his good guys so hard that the bad guys don't even pose a remote threat.

>>96019064
Glorfindel is omega lame.
>lemme just show up out of nowhere to completely invalidate the ringwraiths existence then cease to have any further relevance to the story

>>96019064
>Sauron
>Morgoth
>Weak
If anything, they were too powerful. But you would need to have read the books to know that which you clearly haven't.

>>96019103
>morgoth
>biggest bad guy and first created being gets roflstomped by elves and cowers in terror from them, valar were way more afraid of regular humans than morgoth
>sauron
>second biggest bad guy gets roflstomped by elves and cowers in terror from them, then gets roflstomped by humans and cowers in terror from them
"too powerful"

I'll give you that in the way later stuff after he wrote the Silmarillion Tolkien did try to make them a lot stronger than they had been, but a lot of people don't know about that and just assume what happens in the Silm/LOTR is the only canon there is, and in those Morgoth and Sauron are on the power level of a villain in a cartoon for babies.

I can think of one single solitary time either of them achieve an actual victory and it's when Sauron sings a dude into submission or some shit.

>>96021074
>roflstomped by elves
Stopped reading there. For this kind of exchange to be fun you would at least need to have some basis for your shitposting. But how it is right now you're just making fanfictions in your head.

>>96021156
>morgoth sends his orcs and balrogs to fight the elves
>they get utterly annihilated twice
>he runs and hides in his fort
>they siege him
>volcanos erupt and kill most of the elves and he breaks out
>gets maimed by a lone elf who only loses because he trips over a hole
>gets his ass kicked by a giant bird
>runs and hides in his fort
>humans and elves siege him out
>tricks half the human army to betray the other half
>orcs die uselessly but human traitors manage to rout the others
>dwarves kill everyone around them and morgoth lets them go because he's scared of them
>morgoth sieges gondolin
>gondolin could've won and wiped out morgoth's army but the king is a coward and again half the elf garrison betrays them for morgoth for no real reason
>elf traitors die but manage to let morgoth's forces in who do pretty badly
>greatest balrog ever killed by a lone elf
>elves escape, one also kills a balrog
>valar show up and reinforce elves
>morgoth and his forces utterly annihilated

>>96021191
Despite your whole retelling of the events being shitty and inaccurate, you listed various times in which Morgoth himself not only was not defeated but also won. My only recommendation is to read books instead of summaries.

>>96021567
>morgoth "wins" once by sheer coincidence and two other times because he inexplicably tricks the good guys into betraying the other good guys and doing all the work for him

>>96021580
Yes, Morgoth wins using trickery. Maybe you want him to be honorable and fight his opponents in a face-to-face manner, but if he did that he wouldn't be so evil in the first place. As the narrator mentions, he's the only Valar who knows fear.

>>95998957
morgoth had already destroyed the lamps, he'd eventually want to destroy the trees no matter what.

>>96021966
I'd like to him to be somewhat threatening as a villain at least, or have his armies mean business. As it stands they're absolutely worthless against anything up to and including hobbits, and Morgoth himself isn't even a good trickster. He's not cunning or deceptive. He just goes
>ay bro i know you know i'm a really weak evil guy that loses constantly but check this out if you help me i'll repay you
and the good guys take him at his word like fucking idiots, he doesn't actually give them anything in return (he CAN'T because he's basically impotent) but they believe him, twice, and that's the only way he scores two victories. Not from his armies, not from his own power or charisma, but from the good guys being too stupid to live but too plot armored to die.

>>96022193
>threatening as a villain at least, or have his armies mean business.
He was. He destroyed and enslaved most of Middle-earth before Manwe sent his armies back there.
>worthless against anything up to and including hobbits
If you're talking about Sauron, he destroyed Numenor. If he didn't kill the Hobbits wasn't because he couldn't, but because he never took them into account as he saw them less than Men, Elves and Dwarves. Which ended up being both their strength and their weakness.
>at his word like fucking idiots
He and Sauron seduce people to take their side using their base desires against them. Which is the most effective type of seduction because everybody has them. Only the most wilful of people can resist, like Feanor or Hurin.
Seems to me you're looking here for one of these grimderp stories where evil guys are omnipotent and good guys are imbeciles, such as Warhammer 40k; while LoTR's world is an apology to Heroism. These stories besides being extremely lame and emasculating are poorly done. Since if evil controls everything there's no need to worry about it or resist instead of just letting it engulf all that exist, which is what these worlds basically are, the championing of fictional bestiality.

>>95988052 (OP)
Traditional games?

>>96023092
See >>95991909

>>96022004
People keep saying this, but it's irrelevant. The entire discussion is based on the fact that >>95988416 said if Feanor hadn't lived, Middle-earth would've been dominated by Morgoth forever, which is wrong. The only reason the Valar didn't go chasing Morgoth was because of Feanor and his stupid oath, so without him in the way, Morgoth would've been taken out almost immediately.

>>96022366
>an apology to heroism
There's no heroism because there's nothing for the heroes to rise against. Morgoth and Sauron are basically retarded kids on the playground and the Valar and good races are bullies who keep kicking them around when they're bored. They are so unthreatening and inept that they feel like the underdogs. There'd be nothing heroic about dropping a nuke on a guy who shoplifted a candy bar.

>>96016011
>>Not really, no. An elf in a flying boat killed him pretty easily, but still.
calling Earendil "an elf in a flying boat" is so cartoonishly wrong lmao. he wasn't even one proper. and killing Ancalagon literally brought several mountains down

>>96021191
The elves had the superior military force for the moment, because Morgoth hadn't had time to build any. He had just fucking ran off from Valinor. He couldn't just manifest his armies back with a snap from his fingers, he had to raise them back.
So he hunkers down and kills the elves with his defenses. It's the smart thing to do, so he does it.

>>96024684
>dragon the size of mountains
>dies to an elf in a flying boat
Thanks for reinforcing the absurdity.

>>96024728
Calling Earendil an elf in a flying boat is like calling Turin a dude with a sword

>>96024642
As already pointed out here >>96022366 they manage to enslave and kill most people at one point. In fact, The Sil could have done just right if Sauron and Morgoth weren't so awfully competent despite their blatant wickedness. I understand is not a read for everyone since the book is quite dark on its own. But bringing up your personal headcanon to a canonical discussion is still cringe my man.

>>96023169
No, as you've been told numerous times now, the reason the Valar didn't persecuted Morgoth immediately was to avoid destroying creation *again* with all the causalities such a thing would imply. Feanor's oath affected his children, not the Valar.

>>96024830
No, it wasn't. Otherwise they wouldn't have gone and fought him after Earendil came and begged them.

>>96025224
When Earendil went to beg for help Middle-earth was already destroyed and controlled by Morgoth, both Men and Elves were enslaved and slain. So yes, that's literally what happened.

>>96025543
Again, because Feanor had existed. If he hadn't, the Valar would've immediately gone to stop Morgoth and he would've been chucked through the Door before Men could even know he ever existed.

>>96024746
An elf in a flying boat with absurd plot armor. But hey, I don't even like Tolkien so no idea why I'm even here. Except to say fuck elves. Elves suck farts and are fucking GAY.

>>96025618
That's funny cause Eärendil identified more with his human side.

>>96025585
Cut the bullshit. Your first argument was that "the Valar didn't persecute Morgoth because of Feanor's oath" and now you changed it to "Middle-earth got destroyed because of Feanor". Fuck off.

>>96025722
Are you retarded? My argument is and always has been that Morgoth would not have conquered Middle-earth forever if Feanor hadn't existed. Do try to keep up.

>>96017205
>>96019038
Consider the following:
What was the greatest terror that befell Beleriand before fall of Angband? One may think of dragons, balrogs or Dagor Bragollach, but Tolkien is clear in Silmarillion
>Of all the terrors that came ever into Beleriand ere Angband's fall the madness of Carcaroth was the most dreadful; for the power of the Silmaril was hidden within him.
Huh? The power of Silmaril made what was before a bulked up wolf, one that couldn't be much stronger than Sauron, into a greatest horror in the continent?
>But in the north of his realm his messengers met with a peril sudden and unlooked for: the onslaught of Carcharoth, the Wolf of Angband. In his madness he had run ravening from the north, and passing at length over Taur-nu-Fuin upon its eastern side he came down from the sources of Esgalduin like a destroying fire. Nothing hindered him, and the might of Melian upon the borders of the land stayed him not; for fate drove him, and the power of the Silmaril that he bore to his torment.
Carcaroth powered by a Silmaril is strong enough to break the Girdle of Melian, which Ungoliant couldn't break.
>Then Mablung took a knife and ripped up the belly of the Wolf; and within he was wellnigh all consumed as with a fire, but the hand of Beren that held the jewel was yet incorrupt.
Carcaroth is able to run and fight despite his innards being burnt to ashes.
Therefore it is simple deduction. If Feanor had a Silmaril inside him he would be able to beat Morgoth. However he wouldn't be able to swallow it, he would have to use other way, which I'm sure he would have came up with.

remember, there's a little bit of morgoth in all of us.

>devise badass sounding villain names like MORGOTH and SAURON
>in the story they're laughable idiotic pussies
Thanks for nothing tolkien-chan

>>96026364
>one took on all of his siblings multiple times and WON, literally reshaped the world multiple times, created brand new forms of life, and it wasn't until he took desperate measures and put his essence into the planet itself that he grew physically weak enough for the Valar to beat him with all the armies they could muster, and even then he will still come back and destroy everything
>the other is just an angel, and despite the entire pantheon (including an all powerful Eru) against him, he shaped the course of both the Second and the Third ages, caused the Valar to give up and ask Eru to destroy Numenor, and crippled the remaining Men and Elf populations so badly that the Elves all fled across the sea, and the Men disappeared into legend, ending up as prehistoric tribal groups again
It's like you've never read any of Tolkien's books.

>>96025753
>Are you retarded?
No, you're. Re-read the reply chain again because I won't repeat myself. You're going in circular arguments since a while ago for some weird reason.

>>96026826
I don't need to re-read my own chain, the fact is that Feanor not existing would lead to Morgoth being taken out sooner. You being unable to comprehend that matters about as much to me as you being unable to comprehend not eating breakfast.

>>96026364
the first one is the strongest child of god and the second one is the strongest minor god there is. and together they were able to wage war on the world for millenia. and better yet they could not be permanently defeated and will come back

>>96026498
>It's like you've never read any of Tolkien's books.
Yeah, at this point I'm fairly certain we're discussing with people who have only read/watched a summary from Youtube or any other secondary source. Which is sad and cringe. But at least they're bumping the thread.

>>96027047
>the strongest child of god
shitkicked by his retard wrestling brother, lone elf, then his retard wrestling brother again
>strongest minor god there is
shitkicked by a girl and a dog, an elf, a man, an elf and a man, and finally a hobbit

>>96027267
it makes more sense when you remember that the "gods" in tolkien works are just musical theater kids. Nobody taught Morgoth or Sauron how to fight.

>>96027289
>gods are weaker than mortals
I don't get it. Why are they gods then? On the good guys' end it makes no sense either. The Valar happily go to war with Morgoth, mister evil incarnate, but shit themselves in terror when the mortals Numenoreans invade. Why distinguish Morgoth and Sauron and co as gods if they consistently get bullied like gay theater kids by regular-ass mortals?

>>96027333
Not all gods operate on the same power scale. The Valar are closer to the Norse pantheon than something like the Greek gods, though in truth they're best compared to archangels, with the Maia being regular angels.

But also, on the flipside, it's a recurring theme with Tolkien that everything is weakened and tarnished over time, that everything will suffer entropy until God one day wipes the slate clean. Quite simply, the elves and humans of the First Age were more powerful than the ones who came later, same again with the Second Age. LotR is a bar brawl compared to the wars against Morgoth, not because the stakes are lower, but because even those who participated in those old conflicts (Gandalf, Galadriel, Sauron, Saruman) are diminished compared to what they were.

As for the Numenorean invasion, it wasn't that the Valar didn't think they could fight them, it's that they didn't want to. Aside from the question of who would win, the fact that they were invading at all represented a massive failure of their mission.

>>96026292
>there's a little bit of morgoth in all of us.
literally.

>>96026870
No. And since you insist on repeating lies I will insist on repeating the truth:

1. Morgoth was already evil well before Feanor existed. He was in fact, evil since the beginning of Creation as we know it.
2. He tried to make himself Lord and Owner of all Creation and made war against his brothers.
3. The Valar united against him, and made war until he was captured and imprisoned. Not without a cost, because much of creation was lost during this war. So the Valar re-build much of it again from the start.
4. After this, both the Eldar and Men came to Arda. Feanor was born.
5. Morgoth was liberated, in hopes he had redeemed himself. But after viewing how beautiful the world was after being fixed, he once again desired to have it all.
6. He killed the trees and stole the Silmarils. Immediately after he escaped to Middle-earth, to hide like he did previously.
7. Finally, Feanor and the Noldor went to chase him. But the Valar did not, because they knew a new battle against Morgoth would destroy Middle-earth, because in the first battle the Children of Ilúvatar have not came to Arda.

And that's more or less the whole chronology of events. This idea that "the Valar didn't chase Morgoth because of Feanor's oath" is pure fanfiction. It's not up for discussion; is merely a fact. And the books are available for anyone to check for themselves that this is the case. Persisting in your mistake regardless of the truth makes you look very Morgoth-like, ironically enough.

>>95988052 (OP)
So what game is this thread about?

>>96030488
About every single game under Embracer Group, and the fluff surrounding it.

>>96030515
Cool. I love tolkien. Care to show your campaign notes?

>>96029379
Let me help you, you made a lot of redundant points.

>1., 2., 3., 5., 6.
All of these can be thrown aside because I didn't claim otherwise and they're also irrelevant.

>4. After this, both the Eldar and Men came to Arda. Feanor was born.
Elves appeared before Morgoth was first captured by the Valar, and Feanor was born before Men appeared in Arda. Still, not relevant, but certainly a sign of why you're confused.

>7. Finally, Feanor and the Noldor went to chase him. But the Valar did not, because they knew a new battle against Morgoth would destroy Middle-earth, because in the first battle the Children of Ilúvatar have not came to Arda.
And here is where you finally reveal you are not only confused by what is stated but apparently ignorant of it. The Battle of the Powers occurred when Elves were already in Middle-earth, and it didn't stop them then. Their initial worry was that if they went to war against Morgoth without knowing where Men might be or appear later, then they might be caught in the battle accidentally, but that was almost immediately dropped when Men were found not long after Morgoth arrived in Middle-earth again with the Silmarils. The reason they didn't go get Morgoth was entirely because of Feanor's oath.

So, back to the point then, if Feanor hadn't existed, there would've been no Silmarils to steal, thus no oath to be made, and therefore nothing stopping the Valar doing exactly what they did in the Battle of the Powers, but for Men the second time. Morgoth would've been caught and thrown out of the Doors of Night before the Wars of Beleriand could even occur.

I'm glad I could educate you on this topic. Now sit down.

>>96031855
>The reason they didn't go get Morgoth was entirely because of Feanor's oath.
Proof? Any qoute to back up this claim?
>The Battle of the Powers occurred when Elves were already in Middle-earth, and it didn't stop them then.
Have you read NoMe?
The elves were invited to Valinor and the ones who refused stayed at Cuivienen far from where the fighting took place. Valars also specifically set up guards to ensure the fighting doesn't spill there.
At the end of the 1st Age there was no such safe spot since the Beleriand was all settled.

>>96033379
Honestly, this is basic stuff.
https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Doom_of_Mandos

Not sure why you're now trying to backtrack on your claim that Morgoth was captured and imprisoned before any Elves were in Middle-earth. No, wait, I know why, because it would force you to have to admit the Valar didn't save Men from Morgoth like they did the Elves.

Either way, you're done, stop embarrassing yourself.

>>96033408
>Doom of Mandos
It just says Noldor will fail at their goal and die. Nothing about whether the Valar will fight Morgoth or not. Give a direct relevant quote or gtfo.
Anyway refusing to fight Morgoth and save elves and men just because they are mad at Feanor would make the Valar petty bitches which Tolkien didn't mean to portray them as.
>Not sure why you're now trying to backtrack on your claim
Not that guy.

>>96033470
>It just says Noldor will fail at their goal and die. Nothing about whether the Valar will fight Morgoth or not.
>Noldor goal is getting the Silmarils from Morgoth
>Valar fighting Morgoth would achieve that
>"HURR DURR THEY'RE NOT CONNECTED"
Okay, now you're just being retarded.

>Valar would have given Silmarils to Feanor
lmao

>>96030515
I thought Standing Stones (LotRO) has the rights to the books, not the movies.

>>96033535
Nobody said that, but I see you've got nothing but shitposting left.

>>96033567
>>Noldor goal is getting the Silmarils from Morgoth
>>Valar fighting Morgoth would achieve that
If Valar aren't going to give Silmarils to Feanor, how is Valar getting them supposed to achieve Noldor goal?

>>96033601
You're so close to finally getting that THAT'S EXACTLY WHY THE VALAR DIDN'T GO CATCH MORGOTH. Honestly, letting retards like you on the internet was the worst mistake humanity has ever made.

Wait, are you really implying that Valar didn't go fight Morgoth because they would have to give Silmarils to Feanor?
Lmao, I don't know what book you've read but it wasn't Silmarillion for sure.
>still no quote btw

>>96033676
>another cowardly post without a quote
>has clearly never read the Silmarillion, nor understands what the Oath would cause to happen if the Valar defeated Morgoth and took the Silmarils
>can't even read the top paragraph of the page I linked that gave the exerpt that explains all of this
You're actually retarded, fuck off.

>>96033704
>what the Oath would cause to happen if the Valar defeated Morgoth and took the Silmarils
Gee, if only Valar defeated Morgoth and took the Silmarils in the book. Guess it will remain a mystery what would happen if they did while the oath-abiding elves still lived.
>complains about no quote
The ironing.

Neutralbro here. Feanorbro is winning.

>>96033704
You seriously need to re-read the book. You're getting close to Mormon-tier deviation from the text. Now Feanor would have forced the Valar to give them the Silmarils.

>>96033408
I think the Doom of Mandos was worse than that. His sons DO take back the Silmarils. But at what cost? The whole story is very brutal and it shows just how truly evil Morgoth was.

>>95988052 (OP)
So was every citizen of Gondolin a member of one of the houses, or were they more like nobles/knights?

>>96026081
The power wasn't a benefit to Carcaroth, though it was within him. What it did was drive him mad with agony, pushing him beyond limits that would originally hinder him. He basically developed fantasy rabies that led him on a cross-country rampage.

>>96033749
Did Feanor actually win anything? His life seems to be just one long line of loss, from his mother fading at childbirth to getting stomped the second he confronted Morgoth.

>>96033492
The Valar don't get the Silmarils back because they don't want to destroy Middle-Earth doing so. They send the Doom of Mandos because Feanor is going to ruin everything in his own attempts to get them back. Nothing about the Oath actually impedes them or convinces them to not act

>>96033704
The valar DO take the silmarils and they do not give them to the sons of Feanor because they have proved themselves unworthy of them by committing innumerable crimes
by the time they arrive they are already mass murderers, kinslayers and betrayers. assuming they took them from Morgoth they would just not give them the jewels and the sons would have to cope and seethr

>>96034875
This thread.

>>95992005
>>95992791
It's sewage.

>>96026081
Well noted anon. I forgot about that rabid wolf eating the Silmaril and going insane. They for certain bear some kind of power, very likely most powerful than the Rings themselves later. It would have been interesting seem a battle of titans bearing such power against one another. Like Feanor against Morgoth in all his power.

>>96030515
>Embracer Group bought the rings for one gozillion shekels
>Have done anything with it
These multicorporations are like dragons.

>>96034932
>by the time they arrive they are already mass murderers, kinslayers and betrayers.
On that note, I was thinking about Maedhros and his brother. Must been hell to have taken the Silmarils just to know their own father's creation rejected them. All that blood spilt over nought. I feel certain compassion for them, and they're some of the most tragic characters in the whole book.

>>96035946
Maedhros is like, one of three named characters who actually comit suicide. His brother on the other hand (hah!) went of to be very sad where nobody could find him.

>>96038092
Maedhros would be extremely high in one of these charts of character suffering.

>>96034875
He achieved much, but gained little from it.

He forgave little, and so received little mercy.

>>96024728
As if a dude in a flying boat fighting a dragon isn't the coolest shit ever

>>96048274
He actually received a lot of mercy because his brother always loved him.

>>96049294
You know what, that's fair.

>>95992005
Moses hit it with a staff and forgot to turn it off