>Star Wars being milked 'til the end
>Old Republic and Pre-Republic eras exist, absolute badassery
>some books and games from the early 00s, never explored again

>migrate to Warhammer 40k, absolute badassery
>discovers 20k ("Dark Age of Technology")
>according to GW: '20k's tech makes 40k like a setting for kids'
>20k is never explored

WHY?!
Why the coolest settings are mentionated but never fully exploted?
Why they have to be ALWAYS the mysterious past eras instead the current setting?

Some things are best left to the realm of myth and imagination. See: the Horus Heresy.

>>95993589 (OP)
Because it's really easy to say "Thing we haven't actually fleshed out is super interesting, trust me bro."

It's another thing entirely to actually have to flesh out that thing and make it interesting.

>>95993589 (OP)
Because if they ever did anything with 20k it would be underwhelming.
Better to leave it to your imagination beyond a few well made snippets, because whatever people come up with on their own is far better than whatever slop black library shits out.
In the case of Star Wars being boring it's because Disney are narcissistic fart huffing pieces of shit who hate anyone that actually cared about the part of the franchise you're describing.

here is the hard to swallow truth. As long as these old badass ages remain mysterious and obscure, you can imagine every single badass shit you want.

Once you explore it, it becomes just as gay and lame as everything else

>>95993600
>>95993602
I get your points, but the thing is, there are already some stories about those settings and are good stories. I'm not saying they have to rush an entire new setting from that, but keep developing it even very slowly.

The problem is, both franchises dropped cool stories about those settings and never explored them again, and they keep milking 'til extinction the current one.

>See: the Horus Heresy.
Noobtard, so I don't get it, how different was back then?

>>95993633
>be multi-million dollar company
>creates setting in past eras
>make it super cool
>could hire many and very good writers
>have the time to not rush things
>apparently is so cool that if it's written it would be underwhelming
The death of creativity in front of us.

>>95993638
Conclusion: "Groundhog Day" of the current setting until people get burnout from it.

>>95993589 (OP)
Because economics.

New things are a financial gamble. Nostalgia is quantifiable money in the bank. The financial models for the ROI on nostalgia bating are incredibly detailed and well worked out. A new IP, or even a new setting in an existing IP, requires a projection that hinges on a whole hell of a lot of variables. Selling the same thing, again, has an easily and exactly quantifiable return.

Publicly traded companies aren't run by people who give any fucks about the product. They are financial analysts. Making money is the one and only goal. They don't know or give a flying fuck what WH40k is. Hell, they may not have ever even seen a Star Wars movie. They don't care. The product is irrelevant. Money.

>>95993589 (OP)
It's better that they leave such things to the imagination instead. Also, "lore" and fluff and such is told in such a boring manner nowadays, always matter-of-factly. 40k used to have this mythical quality to it where you couldn't be sure of the whole truth. It gave a lot to the setting.
The Old Republic works because not only was Lucasarts blessed with talented writers and creatives back then, but also because that setting isn't all that different from the Prequels. Neither of these hold true for modern Warhammer; the most popular writers are dogshit and the Dark Age would be an enormous undertaking

>>95993642
Making the Horus Heresy mainstream has been disastrous for 40k. There are lot of things wrong with Nuhammer but turning it into capeshit via Horus Heresy was one of them.

>>95993589 (OP)
This is just >>24512155 again. Why are you going to multiple boards with this insanely stupid question that fails to grasp the value of adding ideas about your setting's distant past to the setting completely?

>>95993687
>Selling the same thing, again, has an easily and exactly quantifiable return.
But what about the fatigue and burnout?

>They don't care. The product is irrelevant. Money.
I get it, but if they want more money, why not keeping developing new settings? Ok, it's risky, but if customers tell you they want something new and you have something new and cool, you have secure money right there.

>>95993642
The problem with the Horus Heresy novels is that they go so far out of their way to turn the series into something worth taking seriously that they essentially created an AU with a completely different tone, made it canon and now anyone who hasn't read a bookshelf worth of books about the lore of a hobby you're probably going to grow out of at some point anyway is a tourist but if you do care about the books you're still a tourist because the books suck, but only the people who've read them are allowed to say that. It's a never-ending spiral downwards towards few people knowing and fewer caring what 40k is as a setting or a hobby. Some take it so seriously that they judge your moral character based on the faction you play >muh tau are space weebs and space wolves are furries for the 1000th fucking time and other people are so insincere about it that they functionally hate the game but pretend to like it depending on when and how it's going to annoy people that they're obviously lying.

>>95993717
>40k used to have this mythical quality to it where you couldn't be sure of the whole truth.
How was portray the mythos?

>but also because that setting isn't all that different from the Prequels.
I have to disagree here, at least for me is like this:
>Prequels, Gulf and Iraq Wars and politics but in space
>Pre-Republic and Old Republic, dark times, the Primordial Truth, war and conquest for the sake of it, proto-indo-european expansion but in space
For me Pre/Old Republic was more primal and vitalist than Prequels (and I like them).

Also,
>most popular writers are dogshit
How are they dogshit, because the retcons? Why 40k enjoyers allow this?

>>95993642
>Noobtard, so I don't get it, how different was back then?

Warhammer40k used to be a grimdark big-picture kind of setting.

Hours Heresy turned the series into Marvel Movie drama about named Primarchs and their competitions for the affections of an Emperor written so shittily that it was honestly better when we knew nothing about him.

>>95993775
>I get it, but if they want more money, why not keeping developing new settings?
Then you obviously don't get it.

Selling nostalgia has a quantifiable return. I don't know exactly what it is in their market, but let's say it's 10%. Therefore if I spend 1 million dollars, I make 100k. Present that to an investor and they say "go get my money."

A new product has a non-quantifiable return. So you say "give me 1 million dollars and you may or may not get anything back," then the financial analyst says "go fuck yourself."

>>95993589 (OP)
DAoT humanity would honestly be very boring to read about. Humanity instantly BTFO every alien species they came across and casually used antimatter black hole weaponry and unimaginably powerful AI to auto-win every battle. Even the full-strength Eldar Empire steered clear of DAoT humanity. What keeps 40k interesting is the fact that every faction is more or less on the same level and there isn't an obvious winning faction, with even the main human faction fighting a desperate battle for survival. Same as Warhammer Fantasy/TOW with the Empire.
Which is yet another reason why AoS fucking sucks cock.

>>95993779
>AU
Meaning, please.

I know that most of the reasons the Primarchs had to betray the Emperor were bullshit.
But you also have books like 'FULGRIM' by Graham McNeill that explain and explore the human psyche and the fall by pride and are worth reading (I still thinking that going from betraying the Emperor to full hellish BDSM is still retarded af).

>>95993728
>but turning it into capeshit via Horus Heresy
Can you elaborate this?
How was Horus Heresy before being mainstream?

>>95993853
>Even the full-strength Eldar Empire steered clear of DAoT humanity.
Iirc, the Eldar didn't even really interact in the material galaxy much, outside of occasional funtime romps about space for kicks, and we don't have any real info on the scope of how powerful their military was outside of 'the best'.
The only objects I recall of their height were the Blackstones and a double handful of relic melee weapons.

>>95993858
Fulgrim is about an evil magic sword. Like, you picked possibly one of the worst examples for a "deep" HH book.

>>95993858
AU means "Alternate Universe".
It's usually used in a derogatory way to compare something to fanfiction, which is an apt description of the entire Horus Heresy book series.

>>95993829
>Hours Heresy turned the series into Marvel Movie drama about named Primarchs and their competitions for the affections of an Emperor
Yeah, I agree.

I'm a noobtard but I miss when the Primarchs were clones of the Emperor that went to the space because the Chaos Gods did a little trolling rather than the current (and retarded) one of Erda ("Goddess-Empress" meme made into canon) throwing the sons she has with the Emperor to the space to be corrupted by Chaos because GW needed some "female empowerment moment".

>Emperor has sons with Erda
>Erda knows about Emperor's mission to unify and illuminate Mankind
>Erda agrees
>sons, Primarchs, are born
>GW needs "female empowerment" moment to get new diverse audiences, consoomers
>Erda ruins the Imperium forever because "muh feelings, muh emotions"
>acidental "hm woman hahaha" moment

>>95993589 (OP)
Because they are meant to be lost, it is thematic tool to display how far mankind has fallen. Exploring it would run against it use for the setting.

>>95993887
Ok, thanks.

>>95993877
>Fulgrim is about an evil magic sword.
>one of the worst examples for a "deep" HH book.
My apologies, I should had explain myself better, I agree the whole "evil magic sword" was retarded (as I said about the hellish levels of BDSM), I was talking about the Fulgrim's inner thoughts, I liked that part.

>>95993851
>"give me 1 million dollars and you may or may not get anything back,"
But what about the all customers that actually want that.

I agree the financial analyst wouldn't accept if there was no clue about this. But you don't have to look too deep to see many people want something new, fresh.

>>95993816
>How was portray the mythos?
Lots of stories told by a specific individual in-universe, unreliable narrators etc. You were exposed to more perspectives.
>How are they dogshit, because the retcons?
Not necessarily retcons but because the stories told are too big. Before 8th edition, 40k didn't have an advancing narrative. Nowadays, Primarchs are returning for example. This was unthinkable before.
The whole point of 40k used to be that the Imperium was fighting a losing battle. Chaos will win and humanity will die.
But... now Guilliman is leading troops into battle with the Emperor's sword and fighting Mortarion, and the Adeptus Mechanics are rediscovering tech thought to be lost. Space Marines are now Primaris Marines, who are simply better than the plain-old soldiers we used to have.
Ironically the scale of the 40k universe has shrunk by introducing all these new elements and characters that are driving the story forward, a small rag-tag bunch of heroes fighting the good fight, instead of nameless mooks dying by the tens of thousands. There's too much emphasis on a small number of characters that we know can't die because GW has to sell plastic figures.
One of my favorite 40k narratives is the Badab War. Instead of the Ultramarines fighting Abaddon personally, it was a smaller civil war stemming from what was essentially tax dispute, revolving around a dozen or so unknown chapters. It's great because it's quaint.
>Why 40k enjoyers allow this?
They are consoomers

>>95993853
>DAoT humanity would honestly be very boring to read about.
I disagree, it depends how good the writer is.

>Humanity instantly BTFO every alien species they came across and casually used antimatter black hole weaponry and unimaginably powerful AI to auto-win every battle.
For me this sounds awesome. I don't diagree with you about the 40k's factions having similar levels of power being interesting, but for once Mankind's being the Gary Stu of the galaxy would be nice.

You have the entirety of the fantasy and scifi genres to read how shit and stupid is Mankind, one exception in a specific era wouldn't be bad.

>>95993932
This is how financial modelling works. It's why you get a Call of Duty release every single year but haven't seen Activision publish a new intellectual property in two decades. Private companies are the ones who take risks. And the majority of them fail. Those that succeed are purchased by public companies, who then regurgitate new versions of the tiny percentage of the private companies' products that succeeded. Public companies do not innovate. They buy people who succeeded at innovating. Because they don't give a fuck about innovating. They don't give a fuck about cost. They only give any fucks at all about the return on the investment. That is all that matters. So they almost-always go with the safest bet, until they get google-big and can blow so much money that they don't even bother noticing where it goes.

>>95993932
Up until, oh, about 5 years ago? 7? All anyone talked about was how they wished that the "plot" of 40k would advance. There were constant threads about it. It was a stupid idea, but the """customers""" really wanted that. Well, we got that, and no all anyone does is fucking complain about it because it's awful. The costumer doesn't know shit.

>>95993945
At this point I no longer know how 40k is supposed to be, you also have the grimDANKness of the first editions where Chaos wasn't so potent nor evil.

>Nowadays, Primarchs are returning for example. This was unthinkable before.
The whole point of 40k used to be that the Imperium was fighting a losing battle. Chaos will win and humanity will die.
>the scale of the 40k universe has shrunk
But how you evolve the lore of a setting without shrunking it?
Also, if evolves that means that was knew before (like Chaos winning) can change (Guilliman's return).

>One of my favorite 40k narratives is the Badab War.
Mine too, the only thing I hate is how in the end the Astral Claws became the Red Corsairs, it's the same shit that happens in Star Wars with going jedi or sith or in AC going assassin or templar (never feels believable, it's just out of spite), apparently there's no option for a third way:
>breaking from the Imperium but still loyal to the Emperor (if you believe he still alives 'cuz "he's a god") or his vision
Even the Blood Pact and the Sons of Sek, despite worshipping Chaos, still respect and even some worship the Emperor.

>>95993983
Well, I'm in about 40k lore advancing if it's done right. Obviously current one isn't.

But there shouldn't be a choice between "something fresh vs advancing the lore", we could have both.

>>95993865
Asurmen: "They call themselves humans. Our peoples once shared the galaxy and relative peace until the storms sundered their empire. The webway held our civilization intact, theirs splintered. But they will prosper from our falling. The birth of the great enemy has dissipated the storms that divided them".
According to one of the few people in 40k who can actually remember that far back, things were mostly chill.

>>95993901
See I love Erda for sheer unintended irony of her and her actions, A women is the entire reason 40k is grimdark. Her women moment is literally the event horizon of 40k, the exact point where everything is irrevocably fucked beyond all repair.

Before Erda scattered the Primarchs, the gods had no way of messing with them or the Emperors plans, they basically had to sit and wait until Emps let them loose on the wider galaxy to try and mess with them.

Erda's XX chromosomal induced deficiency, An utter lack of any forethought or planning or logic in that moment basically dropped the Primarchs into the god's laps to fuck with as they pleased. Erebus tells her this. Even the god's have no fucking idea why she did something so colossally fucking stupid and thoughtless.

Honestly id pay whatever the fuck GW wants to charge for a short story where Kurze, Pertarabo and Angron are told exactly why they ended up being scattered on shithole planets/fucked with by the gods then left in a room with Erda.

>>95994091
That's the point. The reality of the thing is never going to meet up with your ideas about the thing. "Advancing the lore" is always a mistake.

>>95994195
Back then you also had half-eldar half-human ultramarines, apparently current Guilliman wants to bring that back with Yvraine.

>>95994198
Don't get me wrong, I'm cool with a woman being the true evil.

But I miss when the Primarchs were clones of the Emperor and started a civil war not because Chaos or "muh daddy issues" but because they believe they could be better Emperors. Pure darwinism with a galactic scale.

>all traitor Primarchs are told exactly why they ended up being scattered on shithole planets fucked by the gods, then left in a room with Erda.
And the Emperor eating popcorns in the other room telling all of them: "I TOLD YOU! I WAS ALWAYS RIGHT."

>>95994382
>"Advancing the lore" is always a mistake.
Keep the lore exactly the same and having to retell the same stories isn't good either.

I prefer a try-and-miss (with proper good writers ofc) that advances the story (and can be corrected later) than the current stagnation that suffers, for example, Star Wars, which can't move out from the 3 trilogies despite all the lore that exists (but is "decanonised").

>>95993671
>could hire many and very good writers
You're proving anon right in a way, you are coming up with this incredible speculative fiction exploring an unlikely future where Black Library have a stable of writers that aren't complete dogshit.

>>95993589 (OP)
20k is basically just ABC warriors before the nemesis the warlock crossover. It's easier to have a wargame about an evil space church fighting evil space demons than it is to have a wargame about various human factions fighting each other with no clear centralized authority and keeping the dark age of technology vague lets the writers asspull whatever they want.

>>95994421
The way 40k used to be, you could tell all kinds of stories without doing anything to the lore. It's an absurdly huge galaxy with all kinds of battles, politics, Intrigue, and what have you going on at the dawn of the 41st millennium. Solidifying the past in a series of prequel novels was a mistake. "Moving the setting forward" was a mistake. And going back into the DAoT or the reunification would a huge mistake.

You're doing this thing where you're going "well, yes, all of those other times they did it, it was bad. But if they just do it good this time, then it would be good!" It's never good.

>>95994799
isnt there a novel where a DAOT ship and its AI with a full stc database masqurades as an ark mechanichus and fires black holes at eldar ships while causally fucking with time and causality to make it so the eldar cannot possibly dodge it, then wipes the crews minds so it can continue larping as a mechanichus ship.

>>95994891
yes it's the Speranza from Forges of Mars
>causally fucking with time and causality to make
it teleports the enemy ship one microsecond into the past to basically make it telefrag itself

>>95993589 (OP)
This isn't how it works. More is not more.

The epic lost past trope works because its lost. It only seems that cool because its that vague. The mystery and distant awe is the point.

Power levels are not what make something good. Settings with stronger stuff are not on that basis better than settings with weaker stuff.

>>95995142
>Settings with stronger stuff are not on that basis better than settings with weaker stuff.
don't tell that to 40k fans

>>95993589 (OP)
When I doubt, blame the Jews.

>>95993589 (OP)
Traditional games?

>>95993589 (OP)
Because "cool" doesn't mean good for a long-term game.

>>95993589 (OP)
Because the whole point of the Dark Age of Technology is just to be a mysterious backdrop to 40k that allows you to do creative things with unearthed archaeotech, or planetary backgrounds, or shit like that. Exploring it ruins it. What is with you idiot zoomers and not understanding the concept of mystery anymore? It's about adding history to a setting, but you aren't supposed to know all the details of that history because the more you lock in, the more you eliminate the flexibility of it that is the whole fucking point.

>>95993963
HFY is one of the worst literary subgenres for a reason, there's no reason at all to turn a wargame into it too.


The real problem is that warhammer is one of the last of its kind to survive, a fun big space romp where everyone is shooting each other with little pretensions of trying to educate or moralize at you. All the other ones are dead, mostly from pure mismanagement, and so everyone is left with just warhammer and trying to twist it into their actual interests.
This is why there's always dudes wanting nobledark warhammer and practical realism warhammer and alien federation warhammer and mass warffect and star ham and battlehammer galactica. Cause those are all dead and they wish they weren't, so the best they have is nudging warhammer in the direction they'd prefer.

>>95993589 (OP)
Instead of making new things, we re-use old dead things, like frogposting, you disgusting hypocrite.

>>95996527
well said.

>>95993728
Horus Heresy has nothing to do with 40ks current direction. The HH books for the game are proof of that.

>>95994882
>The way 40k used to be, you could tell all kinds of stories without doing anything to the lore.

And what is it that stops you from doing exactly this right now?
Even if you would limit yourself to the "currently featured" warzones, it would give you countless opportunities for /yourdudes/ to do some random shit here and there, but you can still make up your own subsectors, planets, warzones, crusades and you can still pick one of the "official" big campaigns.
How does it matter to you and your games if there is a new GW book about the Lion or Angron doing something, somewhere in some place of the galaxy? Or if there is a 2nd book about some battle between ultramarines and death guard for the 50th time..

>>95993775
>But what about the fatigue and burnout
Because fuck your plans for making money next year if we can squeeze money out of the thing we have right now. Once fatique and burnout set it, the investors will just make more money by selling the IP to the next moron who thinks they understand tHe hIdDeN pOtEnTiAl.

>>95993932
>I agree the financial analyst wouldn't accept if there was no clue about this. But you don't have to look too deep to see many people want something new, fresh.
If I was a suit, why would I want to look deeper if I know for a fact that I can just keep making money if I change nothing?

>>95993728
>Making the Horus Heresy mainstream has been disastrous for 40k.
Some of the best models coming out of GW are HH.

>>95996527
>HFY is one of the worst literary subgenres for a reason
is HFY anything more than /tg/ greentexts from a decade ago.
are there legit HFY novels i can pick up at the library

>>95997661
Think of shounen stuff, or power of friendship.

>>95997667
that all fucking predates HFY by a fucking half century, if not more

>>95993589 (OP)
>muh badassery
Retards like OP is why modern 40k is purely just SM vs CSM.

>>95993589 (OP)
Unironcially why do needs ultra-obsess over children’s media to the point that they can’t do anything but talk about it when they’re 40+? The whole culture war nonsense is not based on preserving traditional western or European culture but on nerds thinking Star Wars is the height of western culture. They keep making this shit because people keep watching this shit and nerds whining about it online is free marketing. I haven’t seen a Star Wars movie since the first Disney one, I haven’t played 40k since like 2008, Alien is one of my favourite film series of all time but I haven’t seen any of the new ones since Prometheus and I have no interest in doing so. Unironically go to the library, pick up an actual book for adults, sit down, turn off your phone, unplug your PC and just read it for a day. It will do you more good than watching your favourite children’s movie for the 500th time. May I recommend Ivan Turgenev’s Fathers and Sons?

>>95997775
people are going to hate you for this post, but you ought to stay strong

>>95997775
You are not the arbiter of what sorts of media is appropriate for adults to consume, you're just an arrogant asshole on the internet.

PS. 99% of books are garbage too, just like videogames, tv, movies, etc.

>>95993589 (OP)
you sound fucking stupid.

>>95993600
This. The latest book from the Black Library set immediately after the defeat of horus is a prime example of this. Tge retard authors they hire to expand the lore ALWAYS fuck it up.

>>95997656
He's not talking about the tabletop game. The Horus Heresy novel series was a massive mistake which took an era of tge setting that had this mythical aura and made it a lame daddy issues soap opera. The Heresy should have stayed as a few paragraphs in codexes.

>>95997656
>forge world slop
Nope.

>>95997606
See, that's how you can tell these people are mostly secondaries who get their precious "lore" from memes.

>>95997775
Star Wars honestly is better than a lot of written works. It's just good stuff. If you can have space for things like treasure island, you can enjoy stuff like star wars.

>>95998030
Treasure Island is unironically more morally complex and interesting than Star Wars.

>>95997775
>Go to /tg/
>wtf, why do people talk about nerd stuff on the nerd place
Do you have stupid

>>95994799
>ABC warriors before the nemesis the warlock crossover.
Excuse my ignorance, anon, but I don't get the reference nor the meaning of this.

>>95994891
>>95994926
Maybe it's just me, but time-travel never works, in the end it always degenerate into "quadrillion dimensions and time-lines" with even more "quadrillion what ifs..."

>>95993589 (OP)
>posts primarchfaggotry, the thing that killed all mystery, gravitas, and "awesomeness" in 40K
YOU are the problem, anon. You just don't know it yet.

>>95993924
>>95993858
>>95993642
Anon you have to be 18 to post on 4chan
You also missed the general

>>95996527
>HFY is one of the worst literary subgenres for a reason
Anon, the first editions of Warhammer are literally grimDANK, I think HFY fits pretty well in that.

Also,
>there's no reason at all to turn a wargame into it too.
I'm not saying that the entire wargame must change to that, just some stories.

About the second paragraph, I agree, specially about the "alien federation", I'm just tired of that cliche.

>>95993589 (OP)
Not everything needs to be explored. Not every question needs to be answered. This is a basic storytelling concept. The fact that you don't understand this serves as prime evidence for why writers should never listen to the fans when it comes to shaping the narrative of a setting.

>>95998235
>grimDANK
Kill yourself
>I think HFY fits pretty well in that
Genuinely, kill yourself

No wonder you like primarchs, you have shit taste all around.

>>95997719
>CSM
Meaning?

What is wrong to wanting an already badass lore to be even more badass?

>>95998235
>I'm just tired of that cliche
Yet you're begging for stories of mary sue humans effortlessly stomping the shit out of a collection - a federation, if you will - of aliens, hypocrite that you are.

>>95997661
>>95997667
>>95997683
Excuse my ignorance but I don't get this.
What HFY has to do with "greentexts" and "shounen"?

>>95998248
Jesus christ this is either a troll or a redditor

>>95996399
>What is with you idiot zoomers and not understanding the concept of mystery anymore?
We understand it, but at some point the mystery will be resolved, if you want to die without knowing it, perfect.
But some of us want to experience the mystery and then learn what is beyond it.
Humans are curious by nature and want to resolve problems and mysteries, we evolved and survive by doing that.

I highly doubt that 40k can still be mysterious in 2087, a century after Rogue Trader, but maybe I'm wrong.

>>95998243
>someone totally forget how was the tone of 40k before the 4th edition
>goofy af

>>95998250
>federation
>just one of many system of government
>for anon is the only one
Anon, ofc I want my species to be awesome, one thing doesn't implies the other.

>>95998282
You weren't even born yet for 4th, fake grog.

>>95998272
>Humans are curious by nature

Which is precisely why these settings need to maintain mysteries that never get answered. Never answering certain questions keeps that natural human curiosity piqued and keeps people coming back to, and engaging with, the setting. And that continuous engagement usually translates into more money for the company that owns the setting.

>>95998287
>the action of forming states or organizations into a single group with centralized control.
An empire with multiple vassal species is still federated, retard.

>>95998256
Ok, Chaos Space Marines.

I never said I want just SM vs CSM.
Idk about you, but if the creators of 40k say "20k would make 40k a playground for babies", I would be really curious about what kind of tech and power 20k had and how would affect 40k.

>>95998299
>implying there's no tech that allow a centralised organization, aka no need for federations nor con-federations
Anon, you don't have enough imagination.

>>95998315
If you're centralizing multiple distinct species that once had distinct states under a singular system of rule it's STILL federated, retard. I know you're either underaged or ESL but learn some english, goddamn

It's also incredibly hypocritical to accuse other people of lacking creativity when you are begging for more syndicated slop to consume instead of making your own stories

>>95993589 (OP)
>Why the coolest settings are mentionated but never fully exploted?
Because they stop being cool when exploited.

>>95993963
>for once Mankind's being the Gary Stu of the galaxy would be nice.
Isn't that just Star Trek?

>>95998387
And 40K
And Mass Effect
And Halo
And Gurren Lagann
And dozens of other scifi or fantasy media

>>95993589 (OP)
>>Old Republic and Pre-Republic eras exist
Disney tried to give you this and what they came up with was The Acolyte.
>according to GW: '20k's tech makes 40k like a setting for kids'
This thread has 90 replies and nobody told him yet? Anon, the starter sets are designed for 12 year olds. It's not a coincidence.

>>95993589 (OP)
retard, it's because part of making something good is to gesture off into the distance and say "stuff over that way is really amazing and badass btw"

if you actually explored it you'd also have to gesture at some other unexplored thing

>>95993600
/thread

>>95998248
Chainsaw Man.

>>95994059
>But how you evolve the lore of a setting without shrunking it?
The main things about WH40k that make it feel "big" is:
- Stories are mostly set on a single planet. Traveling from one planet to the next is a long (months, years) journey. The closest you have to a "recurring planet" like Korriban in Star Wars is Holy Terra, which basically never actually appears. Space is big, and is made to feel that way through doing this.
- There are so many warm bodies on all sides of every conflict that personal heroism simply cannot turn the tide. You throw yourself into the jaws of danger to save your friends, or out of duty; you aren't going to be decisive to victory and defeat.

In this context, sometimes things can turn on an individual's decisions, but that individual should be a figure of political power (general staff, planetary governor, rogue trader, high inquisitor, etc), and replaceable if they somehow die. Military campaigns can achieve victory or defeat; new antagonists can arise, old ones can fall; new alliances can form, factions can break apart. New rules and laws can be developed, old ones can be thrown away. Basically: the sorts of things that happen over the course of a real country's lifetime.

>>95998208
ABC Warriors is a series of comics by Pat Mills about war robots created to fight Volgans (russians basically) and other robots in ww3. They eventually show up several thousand years into the future in Nemesis the Warlock, another of his comics about a dystopian future where the evil alien hating terminators rule humanity and mankind has lost the technology needed to make robots. When Games Workshop made Warhammer 40k they copied a ton of the lore from Nemesis, including the stuff about robots being ancient lost technology, although that was also in dune. This is also probably why the vindicator assassin looks like Joe Pineapples but not a robot.

>>95998387
>>95998459
>Star Trek
Humans have to live alongside xenos, war and conquest are sins of the past.

>40k
Space-feudalism, billions dying in misery.

>Halo
Humans are a shadow of their past. Also you have Master Chief simping for an AI.

>Mass Effect
Same as Star Trek, the actual cool humanist faction, Cerberus, has ME3 as its end.

>Gurren Lagann
I don't know about this.

>other scifi or fantasy media
Like Lord of the Rings, where humans (and a half-human) doomed Middle-Earth for 3k years for not throwing a ring to a volcano.
Or The Expanse, where you have sub-humans of a random moon constantly complaining about Terra and the show can't stop telling you how evil are Terran supremacists.

Anons, in reality there are very few franchises were humans are cool and you don't have to suffer the "look l'evil humans abuse of power" narrative.

>>95993853
>Even the full-strength Eldar Empire steered clear of DAoT humanity.
Lorelet alert.

>>95997775
Pop culture is unfortunately the living culture, the heart beat of the nation, that is why it's the battleground.
you should advise people to create as opposed to simply consume, that is what's important.

>>95999350
>I don't know about this.
honestly, it's just about always moving forward like a drill. it ends with a galactic level conflict where humanity fights against the concept of staying in your lain and submitting to the natural order out of fear.

>humans
Numinorians are actually half elves.
THE CURSE OF FEANOR STRIKES AGAIN

>The expanse
Just say skinny already and get over it.

>>95998248
YOU DON'T BELONG HERE.

>>95997606
I'm not even sure I understand what you're argument is, here. The original question was "why don't they write more about [x]!" My point is, they don't need to write about [x], there is plenty in the "modern" setting to write about, and every time they've done something similar to writing about [x], it's been bad. "Bro, why do you care if the lore is bad, you can just ignore it," is a point that is completely fucking orthogonal to the conversation. That's being had.

>>95997775
>tries to put away childish things
>maintains childish fear of being childish
many such cases

>>95998097
Of course. But if you've got boys adventure in your wheelhouse, and you should, then you can also like a nice little family redemption space warrior story too.

>>95997661
It took off on reddit, like all things 4chan got bored of. It never broke out into the mainstream but there's a pretty firm community for it still.
>>95997667
No it's not. That's individual and small groups, not as a species. It'd have to turn out that actually, all humans were super saiyans.
>>95998387
>>95998459
Humans being default protagonists isn't the same. Otherwise everything would be HFY and I don't wanna live in that world.

>>95998253
HFY began somewhere around over a decade ago on this site as a sort of counter-culture thing to aliens always being bigger and cooler and awesomer than the poor plain-jane basic-bitch vanilla humans. Enterprising individuals devised stories in which humanity had some cool sort of unique take on the baseline sapience as well, like surviving in an area of space which would inflict most species with a cognitohazard, or merely stories in which the best of our traits were displayed, like a willingness to die for a cause, real heroic shit. For a time, it was good.
Then it started inbreeding. People read some HFY, liked it (because it was truly cool), and tried to make their own. Of course, not having a basis for what exactly made it cool in the first place, their product was inferior - but the genre was becoming more popular, and so their inferior contributions were used as the baseline for other prospective authors, and so did the cycle repeat.
Now there's not a single original thought produced in the genre and frankly it's worse than some of the shit I've read on AO3.
If you want to enjoy HFY, trace through its history from the beginning until you hit Chrysalis. Then read that. When you're done, drop the genre because nothing that came after is worth a rat's ass.
Rant aside, its relation to greentexts is that this is the place of its birth, and its relation to shounen is similar themes of people being cool. Or something, I don't watch japanime.
>>95998248
>does not know what the most common abbreviations in the hobby are
genuinely what the fuck are you doing here, dude. go to a hobby shop right this instant and buy the largest tub of modeling cement you can find. don't come back until you've inhaled or ingested every last crumb of it.

>>96004052
Personally I find the issue with new HFY is that it basially goes in the opposite direction of instead of trying to make humanity cool it instead just make aliens absolute idiots with nothing going for them to try and make humanity look better in comparison. Like the story which made me give up on the genre was one were humans were called in to help these aliens in a war and apparently humanity's unique trait that allowed them to outperform the aliens and defeat the enemy is...seeing color. Cause apparently both of these races saw only in grayscale and hadn't formed any type of technique or technology to pick out shapes to recongize approaching enemies.

>>95999350
>Star Trek
Humans are the driving force of the Federation despite being its youngest race
>40K
Humans birthed 3/4 chaos gods and are the sole race of interest for all 4 gods, almost exclusively shape the warp, and are the sole race of interest for althe only race that affects lasting change on the setting. They're as mary sue as you can get.
>Halo
Humans are quite literally the Chosen Race, regardless of whether you go with the original plot where they're literally Forerunner or the faggy 343i take.
>Mass Effect
Again, humans are literally the Chosen Ones, with Shepard himself being Literally Jesus. People in-setting even say "if you want a problem solved, you get a human."

>>96004165
>instead of trying to make humanity cool it instead just make aliens absolute idiots with nothing going for them to try and make humanity look better in comparison
That's all HFY ever was. PHWOOOAR WE EAT DRUGS AND POOP ROCKET FUEL, ISN'T THAT HECKIN SCIENTIFICOOL?!?!

>>95993589 (OP)
Anon, GW already can't do 40k scale, asking them to write Xeelee Sequence-tier shit would end you up with a farce on par with any time a visual depiction of the Time War is made.

>>96004491
>Humans birthed 3/4 chaos gods
Anon, the canon says you're wrong.
Chaos Gods are older than Mankind now.

>>96004052
>If you want to enjoy HFY, trace through its history from the beginning until you hit Chrysalis.
Where I trace it?

How different was the OG HFY from current one?
How can we bring back the OG?

>>96005164
They're older because the warp is timey wimey wibbly wobbly because Dr. Who is the UK's only cultural export ever since sassy british critics went out of style. Humanity still birthed them but then they went back in time and ensured their own births because they became timeless from the moment they were born.

>>96004491
>People in-setting even say "if you want a problem solved, you get a human."

Only a Renegade Shepard says that, and if you make Shepard say that, the game basically calls you a retard for choosing that option and forces you to apologize to the Asari you say it to. Stop trying to misrepresent things in order to push your shitty narrative.

Myths and legends live in omission. Elements change with each retelling. It's good for a world to have these half-remembered epics of the past. Makes everything feel a lot more rich- like the Trojan War as we view it today. As everyone's already pointed out, the Horus Heresy is completely boring and gay when you actually explore it in depth, because it turns these mythic characters into tedious assholes. I don't really need to know what Apollo does in his spare time, you know?

A better example is Dune. Has anyone who read it really thought to themselves "damn, if only there was a pointless prequel explaining away all the mystique and intrigue of the Bene Gesserit and the Butlerian Jihad so I can wank about how powerful and awesome the thinking machines were." It's the kind of stuff that's only interesting when you're an anime fan in high school.

>96005172
I'm sure the comment section can answer those questions for you

>>96005164
Things can exist for a significant period of time before being born anon
>inb4 muh right to kill much baby speil

>>96005212
>anime fan in high school
Anime loves to have ancient times that never ever get explored. It's a western fanboy wikiscrawler concept.

>>96004491
Halo describing Humans as able to instinctually understand Forerunner tech was one of my favorite “neat little facts” of the setting, it explains how characters can use Covenant equipment and why the hypertech they encounter seems stupid easy to use when you’d expect it to be frighteningly esoteric.

>>96004491
>Humans birthed 3/4 chaos gods
>Slaanesh takes a giant sacrificial ritual that consumed the souls of 95% of the galaxy's most psychically ascended race to be birthed
>Somehow humans did the same thing thrice over with no such cost
This is a braindead take anon, it doesn't take much effort to think of a hugely disruptive galactic event that could have resulted in the warp getting shitwhipped enough to spawn three giant globs of soul cancer.

>>96006450
>a hugely disruptive galactic event that could have resulted in the warp getting shitwhipped enough to spawn three giant globs of soul cancer
You mean the Horus Heresy?

>>96005164
He's not wrong though. And neither are you. If both of you midwits would actually read the lore instead of just reading the wiki, you'd know that the Chaos gods existed before humanity in a primordial state. Then, during the middle ages on Terra is when Khorne, Tzeentch and Nurgle all gained both consciousness and form due to all the bullshit that was going on on Terra at that time.

>>96006862
Quit being a fucking retard and go read up on the 'crons.
>>96006975
Also very dumb, after something like the War in Heaven there's fuckall reason some dipshit planet off in the ass crack of the galaxy would have any more effect on the immaterium than any of the other planets full of primitive species. I do recall that having been actually written though, so we can at least blame it on shit writing, like so much else. Remind me, was it in one of the 30k books? It has the smell of 30k to me.

>>96004503
This is the problem. Not saying stories about heroic humans aren't a good idea but even the best of them are ultimately tales where aliens say "no sentient creature would risk their own life for others" which makes their own society seem cowardly.

>>96007008
>go read up on the 'crons
Those don't sound like any Space Marines to me.

>>95993589 (OP)
because you suck and i hate you
go read look up what other books are popular with fellow fans
as in find new books and series unrelated to stuff you like but that people who like what you like also like
probably sci fi of the late 60s and early 70s
fan fiction took off in the 80s
try that

>>96007666
Man's got a point
Fuck off and read Asimov if you're bored, and when you get tired of that go chew on Dune

>>96004768
if gws track record with the heresy is any indication it would just be 40k but with slightly more death rays so not exactly XS-tier

>>95993600
/thread
Exploring HH was a mistake, myths should stay not explained in detail.

>>95993589 (OP)
>WHY?!
Because it was relatively peaceful until the Iron Men rebellion, and then it went back to being peaceful until the existing human empires fell apart

It might as well be an entirely different setting, because besides some vehicles looking sort of familiar, nothing from 40k (or 30k) would have existed in it

The Dark/Golden Age of Technology was very Star Trek, and idealic in many ways. There had to be somewhere to fall from for 30k/40k to make sense as a setting.
That's it.

I would rather them do things with the setting than not, if its shit then oh well but at least somethings happening
I dont mind most of it I just wish the HH focused more on the great crusade and all the xenos and human factions that were encountered rather than primarchs (underwhelming manchildren)

>>96007008
>Remind me, was it in one of the 30k books? It has the smell of 30k to me.
It is 35 year old lore that probably hasn't appeared in anything else since then, but hasn't been directly contradicted either

The same source says the Chaos Gods already existed, but they were "slumbering", but the existence of the Emperor awoken them because they recognized the threat he would become to them

>>96008211
>The Dark/Golden Age of Technology was very Star Trek, and idealic in many ways
Seems like headcanon, we don't really know much about that era other than they had lots of superweapons and tampered with genetics to create abhuman races. They always gave more of a "mad tech-mage" vibe to me

>>96006975
>Then, during the middle ages on Terra is when Khorne, Tzeentch and Nurgle all gained both consciousness and form due to all the bullshit that was going on on Terra at that time.
But that doesn't make any sense, again read the canon, The Emperor (before he was The Emperor) came to existence in Bronze Age's Anatolia to protect Mankind against already formed Chaos Gods.
You can read how The Emperor is called "The Anathema" and how He "stole the power from the Gods", implying they already existed before Him.

Also, funny how the CGs came to existence during the European Middle Ages, when in other times of human existence and continents there were many more death and pain (ex: China, no matter the era).

>>96006450
>This is a braindead take
While I agree, it's GW's take not mine.
Nurgle was spawned during the black plague
Khorne by the crusades
And Tzeentch by the enlightenment or Renaissance iirc, I always forget his deal

>>96004491
>>96013061
I heard (and sincerely hope it's true) that this was retconned at some point

>>96013583
It's never been readdressed at all, neither retconned nor elaborated on

>>95993589 (OP)
Let's be honest, the current GW game designers and writers would lack the talent to give it justice. Though it would be cool to have a more hopeful version of the galaxy, and the "Emperor" being undercover at this stage. it would also be interesting to explore the Age of Strife, or the War in Heaven, or even the Age of Exploration.

>>95993877
It lacked garnish, but there's nothing wrong with the concept of cursed objects.

>>96013723
Completely and totally missing the point.

>>96012643
Read the post you responded to again. Then maybe you'll see how what you were asking was already answered. Then hit yourself in the head with a hammer for being a functionally illiterate faggot.

>>95996527
hfy is good if it displays the things that humans are actually really good at and/or would help in a multi-species planetary/interstellar society.

Advanced pair bonding and empathy, ability to produce a wide range of sounds, the fact that we're about in the average of every other animal's capabilities in physical tasks.

>>96017444
>Advanced pair bonding and empathy, ability to produce a wide range of sounds, the fact that we're about in the average of every other animal's capabilities in physical tasks.
It feels like we're snakes reinventing eyes here, because everything you listed ultimately translates into how Humans have *always* been presented in science-fiction.
>Physically average, but charming and can make friends easily

>>96017444
>HFY
>Humans Fuck Yeah
>anon describes the most un-HFY cliche ever
Anon... HFY would be the "Aryan Invasions but in space":
>no mercy
>pure brutality
>absolute badassery
>'WE WILL SKINNED YOU, XENOS SCUM, AND SACRIFICE/EXTERMINATE YOUR PEOPLE TO OUR HUMAN GODS!'
>but Mankind is in its Golden Age and all humans are Post-cyber-Greek Gods with 1k IQ because genetic modifications and techno-augmentations actually work
>therefore humans are no longer limitated by the flesh nor the metal

>>96018127
>Aryan invasions but in space
The Aryan people had an advantage due to milk consumption and chariots. What would these translate into for a sci-fi?

>>96018140
>>96018127
The milky way empire

>>95994891
If you mean Forges of Mars, no that isn't the case, and the guy in charge of it had to basically beg the ship to save them from the eldar fucking their shit up.

>>95993589 (OP)
To build mystery and scale.

That type of thinking is exactly what led to the downfall of star wars.

>>96012643
>But that doesn't make any sense, again read the canon
The fundamental problem with 40k canon and its timeline is the fact that it never made sense, EVER. If you combine all described events at the (human) timestamps they supposedly happened, you will get utter nonsense, like the Eldar empire (who supposedly utterly DOMINATED the galaxy, expansion and presence-wise) only falling apart a few hundred years before the Great Crusade (e.g. a RESTORATION of an ALREADY formerly highly expanded human empire) and Horus Heresy happen, respectively. Among other, similarly, if not more, egregious bullshit paradoxes. Therefore, the only way to make 40k "make sense" is to disregard the (especially Black Library produced) canon and only apply it in broad strokes as it aligns to your personal understanding and tastes. Ergo, 40k is a kitchen sink "flavor setting" that you use to play out and world build your fanfiction inside of and whoever wants to convince you otherwise is a shill, tribal cultist/bootlicker or severely mentally deficient.

>>96019101
Exactly. This something new fans who are used to highly structured settings with firmly established canon just can't seem to wrap their heads around.

>>95994421
I have a game set in WWI if I advance the story the war ends and I no longer have a WWI setting and move into WWII with a different story and setting.
You do not need to move the story in a setting, because a setting is where stories happen. Reason why we keep milking stories about WWII and mostly focused in the European front the pacific front is hardly explored.
Something similar happen in 40k.
You have 10k years between the heresy and current 40k and you are telling me there is not enough time to tell stories within 10k years? That you needed to look into a conflict that lasted less than a fart (Horus Heresy) or need to advance a the setting (risking moving out of the metaphorical WWI setting)

>>96019150
My man didn't just hit the nail on the head, he blew its fucking brains out. This is it, this is the whole fucking point.

>>96018127
But how would you include in a HFY setting the later extermination of Central Asian Aryans by the Turkics, the mixing of Indo-Aryans into modern Indians and their takeover of their former colonial masters or the growing dependancy on China regarding crucial raw materials and everyday goods?

>>96019101
Canonically, the Eldar mostly stuck to the area around where the Eye of Terror formed. They had far flung maiden worlds that they terraformed, as well as explorers and traders that would venture out on proto-craftworlds, but they never really tried to occupy the whole galaxy.

>>96019487
And that canonically contradicts the fact that the Eldar are (one of) the Old Ones' weapons that were basically left occupying the Milky Way after the Old Ones finally gave up fighting the Necrons and fucked off, and the Necrons went to sleep after having almost completely eradicated all higher forms of life in the Milky Way some 80 thousand years before the Eldar empire collapsed.... oooor wait a minute, again, canonically, now (since 7/8th Ed?) the Necrons are actually only waking up after 80+ MILLION years AFTER the their war with the Old Ones, wtf were the elves stuck playing farmville in their backyard for that long?!... and the whole thing still makes no fucking sense.
Do you see my point? IT. DOES. NOT. MAKE. SENSE.
So effectively, everyone's (head) canon IS RIGHT and and IS INCORRECT, at the same time. Therefore any discussion or arguing about it is practically pointless.

>>96019101
Eldar in Horus Heresy behave exactly like Eldar in 40k which is kinda jarring if you believe the Fall was supposed to be 100 years ago.

>>96019487
>>96019605 (me)
Also, the Eye of Terror is practically "next door" to where the galactic sector where the Terran solar system is located, and the Eldar canonically have maiden worlds (which btw. were paradise worlds to be either left to appreciate as "art" or to become the ultimate "vacation" worlds, i.e. something they clearly were taking care of or actively monitoring) ALL ACROSS the Milky Way. Their empire at its height definitely had reach and spread almost as much as the Necrons did (which is quite literally every single solar system), so it makes absolutely no sense, that they wouldn't come into a lot of conflict/interaction with at very least DAoT humanity, which was canonically pretty widespread itself. Keep in mind, that the Webway at that point WAS covering the entire galaxy and fully functional as well. Do I really need to keep going? And this is just the basic broad interaction between Eldar and Human (and partially Necrons) timeline and it is already extremely contradicting and paradoxical.

>>95993589 (OP)
>>95993717
>>95993728
>>95993779

read evola

its what the 40k setting should be and was when it was best. a spiritual feudal society with a caste system ruled by a god-emperor and protected by monk-knights. but evola thinks all of this unironically

>>96019676
>Their empire at its height definitely had reach and spread almost as much as the Necrons did (which is quite literally every single solar system)
Source on this?

Most solar systems are pretty worthless, and with the Webway the Eldar could colonize pretty much any world they wanted without worrying about needing to build and defend waystations in real space.

Also most lore I have read suggests the Eldar were highly concentrated around what is now the Eye of Terror

>>95993600
FPBP, as usual

>>96022546
Look at pic related, which shows Maiden worlds all over the galaxy, literally in every corner. A harlequin in the Throneworld novel calls the old eldar empire something like an empire of 10 000 suns. Yes, their core worlds were definitely around the Eye of Terror, same way how humanity's core worlds are around Terra, but that's a bullshit argument, when we know there're wayshrines all over the galaxy and that Eldar had contacts and knowledge of most other minor species in the Milky Way. Lastly, that (to be a universally present "threat" for your dudes) is quite literally a point of being a major 40k faction, so how does it makes sense for one of the most ancient star-faring races, who are explicitly stated (in numerous primary sources) to have been the masters of the galaxy at some point, to not have their presence spread throughout the Milky Way? Unless you want to claim that 40k's writers deliberately misuse every second (if not single) word in the English language, semantically, applying any bit of logic to statements made in even the primary sources (codices, army books, etc.) leads to an understanding of Eldar as a formerly galaxy-wide Empire that had been in that state for decades of millennia, at the very least.

>>95993589 (OP)
>Entire point of the setting is "The before times were better, but all that technology and ideology is lost"
>"Gee, why dont they show us"

Its supposed to be lost for a reason. The entire point of 40k loses its meaning if they show the older eras, honestly they have already shown far too much with the Horus Heresy.

Your supposed to never know what the Men of Iron and Men of Gold were, only that they almost destroyed humanity, your supposed to just assume that all the other sci fi genre stuff like Mass effect and Star Wars happened in the Dark Age and never think about it again.

This is peak lack of world building literacy here.

>>95994421
I really do think the setting should've been moved forward as well. They really could have just continued on the trend they established for themselves, even had rumors of primarchs maybe returning if they wanted, but instead just kept putting the IoM in a worse situation.

Splinters, petty kingdoms, etc. forming but the basic bureaucracy refuses to acknowledge that and continues sending people around in some cases. IG regiments being sent to battle fronts that are really petty wars between different pseudo secessionist imperials. The tithe is more and more strained and relies on more force than ever before, but it's also kind of like a lottery to get some cool stuff and so the big boys don't notice due to outside threats, but it's splintering in real time. Chaos is actually spreading and lights are blinking out.

You had reasons for imperials to fight each other, while expanding xenos enough that some of the gaps get filled in. Crusader states and warlords are essentially the norm. Places like Tallarn and factions like the SoB find common cause against the tech heresy of Krieg maybe, but both still ostensibly serve the big E.

Just expand what they already had to a wider degree.

>>96022609
The whole point of 40k is for every faction to potentially be able fight anyone (or everyone) else anywhere on the map where an official or homebrew region is created (except irrelevant factions like tau or votann)

Just because necron and eldar have ruins in every region of the galaxy, it doesn't mean they had a presence in every solar system, just like the Imperium only has a presence in a small percentage of solar systems

The "territory" of the pre-fall Eldar would have overlapped with humanity and orks and various d-list xenos across almost the entire galaxy, but still 99.999% of solar systems would be empty

>>96022828
Ok, it seems we're fundamentally using different meanings of presence. "Presence" of an empire does not necessarily require you to have a fully staffed station on every single rock (i.e. planet). But the eldar (and necrons especially) had a *much* better capability of getting information about and especially getting somewhere whenever they wanted, than humanity ever did (at least according to existing lore on DAoT we have), so if 40k humanity still effectively controls millions of solar systems, I refuse to accept anyone's argument that claims the (canonically) vastly superior older empires didn't do better, because despite HFY fags' delusions, 40k is absolutely not a HFY setting. Eldar may have lost even more of their technology comparatively than 40k humanity ever did, but they still have access to shit humanity never achieved even during heights of DAoT, so pardon me if I will continue to support my head canon of "wherever humans set foot, the necrons and eldar had already been there before the first homo sapiens ever hunted a mammoth", because I have not seen sufficiently strong evidence, that this wasn't the case.

>>96022383
>>96022383
Imagine being this sort of person

>>96019479
>but how would you include in a HFY setting anti-HFY things
I simply would not include them.

>>96022828
Perhaps if GW paid more attention to the actual political map of the Galaxy in less in "muh chaos, muh heresy", we would have a proper setting.

>>96022859
What I never get about this settings is despite how advanced a civilization is, human or xenos, they never fix their species' brains, impulses.
If I were the leader of an advanced civilization, the first thing I would do would be to eliminate all superstimuli from our DNA so that my species would never fall into degeneration, barbarism, dysgenics, etc.

>>96004052
>Then it started inbreeding.
Nah, I remember because I was there although I didn't care that much about it. Some of the stories were crap from the beginning and some were good, when they weren't sharing outright published stuff from Campbell and others.
What actually happened to kill it was that a few insistent spergs started sperging out about it non-stop in every thread about it trying to derail them into STOP LIKING THIS THING and even going into unrelated threads to write about how much they hated HFY and how the people who liked it were all NEEEERDS who liked badwrong POWER FANTASIES and how humanity sucked and should suck in stories.
I didn't even care that the threads died but those people were still utter cunts.

>>96022859
>I refuse to accept anyone's argument that claims the (canonically) vastly superior older empires didn't do better
I guess that depends on your definition of "better"

The Eldar and Necron at their peak probably had god-tier levels of technology that allowed them to change entire solar systems anyway they wished, including near unlimited energy and creating nearly any material at a molecular level, so unlike DAoT humanity they didn't need to set up mining colonies all over the place

>>96030270
>Perhaps if GW paid more attention to the actual political map of the Galaxy in less in "muh chaos, muh heresy", we would have a proper setting.
It is supposed to be a sandbox setting, that is why most people like it.

>>96022383

>>96033659
>>96022383
>>96023293
I dont get it

>>95993589 (OP)
Private Equity and Asset Management Companies have driven everything to be hyper efficient profit driven slop. There is very very little room for actual creative freedom. Thats why the film industry is now just remakes, reboots, sequels and adaptations.

>>96032382
I mean even with a WWII setting you can have random encounter like brits vs imperial japan that did happen. Or silly scenarios like Nazis protecting Chinese from the Japanese that also happen.
Even some team kill can happen with poor communication or a little war crime with captured equipment and uniformes.
Having a proper setting does not restrict stories from happing in it. Specially one with 10.000 years between the Horus Heresy and the year 41.000

>>95993779
I can't take anyone who doesn't like the story of 30k seriously. Most of it, nearly all, is so well written and sovlful that you're just being a contrairian bitch saying otherwise.

>>96032382
>so unlike DAoT humanity they didn't need to set up mining colonies all over the place
Yes, that's exactly what I said. They didn't need to erect permanent structures everywhere, but they did have the ability to know what's going on there and to physically get to and interact there, if needed, at a level that DAoT could only dream of. Hence their "presence" in the galaxy was equal, if not greater, than humanity's.
Most exodite worlds (which you can see on the map) were established hundreds of years, if not millenia, before the Fall of Eldar, and these were established by the equivalent of Eldar Amish, who in most cases are still there, except for those that someone (mostly Grand Crusade humans) managed to eradicate. Craftworlds for the most part were part luxury liners and part merchant vessel, before most of them became emergency shelters for the last-minute refugees prior to the climax of the Fall. So that's plenty of evidence, for how widespread the Eldar actually were, and is still not in any way contradictory with the vast majority of Eldar life in the galaxy having been lost to Slaanesh's birth. Especially when you consider how huge the population of Commoragh still is, and that individual Craftworlds or Exodite colonies can still number in millions, if not billions of elves. After all, before the Fall, Eldar were canonically numbered in trillions, at least.

>>95993589 (OP)
Fine, since this shit tier thread is still up, I'll say it. OP, you are fucking emberassing.
>muh awsomeness
Nice way to say the quiet part loud that ultimately what types like you want is just purile toy soldier garbage with Michael Bay production values. You literally are demaning slop, and guess fucking what, GW is listening and that's why 40k is just SM vs CSM.

>>96022609
>A harlequin in the Throneworld novel calls the old eldar empire something like an empire of 10 000 suns.
The Milky Way galaxy contains between 100-400 billion stars. Even "giant" space empires are a mere drop in the bucket.