Thread 96010654

Do tanks make more sense as a “bad guy” vehicle?
>Faceless, has no humanoid properties, dehumanizing similar to putting a face-concealing helmet on a soldier
>Requires multiple crew, taking away the heroism
>Heavy and clumsy, bowling over things in their way instead of gracefully moving around it
>Associated with militarism and authoritarianism
>Cheap and disposable compared to mechs
Whereas humanoid mechs are much more of a good guy vehicle.

>>96010654 (OP)
You missed the worldbuilding general.

>>96010654 (OP)
>dehumanizing similar to putting a face-concealing helmet on a soldier
Only form the outside. If the tank crew is the good guys then they're inside, likely with faces exposed.

>Requires multiple crew, taking away the heroism
That's like say there's no heroism at the Battle of Thermopylae because there was 300 fighting together. You can still be heroic with 5 people.

>Heavy and clumsy, bowling over things in their way instead of gracefully moving around it
That would depend entirely on the environment, a tank duel over flat, sandy plains between two ultramodern tanks would be highly mobile.

>Associated with militarism and authoritarianism
So are soldiers, doesn't stop soldiers from being heroes.

>Cheap and disposable compared to mechs
Wouldn't this make their antics more suited for heroes and heroics? The underdog kinda angle.

>Whereas humanoid mechs are much more of a good guy vehicle.
Most mechs in games are used by enemies. Maybe not most in tabletop games due to balancing, but in media in general the good guys are almost always a minority compared to the bad guys they face.

Tanks are cool. I'm not willing to resign them to role of 'bad guy thing' at all.

>>96010918
>Only form the outside
Which for most vehicles is the thing the players will be looking at on a miniature

>You can still be heroic with 5 people
Their responsibilities are too divided for any one of them to be heroic. A mech pilot drives, shoots, commands, and loads the mech all at the same time. A tank driver…just drives. And driving isn’t heroic.

>a tank duel over flat, sandy plains between two ultramodern tanks would be highly mobile.
Not compared to a mech, which could be doing backflips through that same terrain, summersaulting through the air or even flying.

>Wouldn't this make their antics more suited for heroes and heroics?
No, cannon fodder is always evil, there’s no such thing as “good” disposability, if a good person does sacrifice themselves they’ll do so doing an action that wipes out scores of their enemies in the process.

>Tanks are cool
Not as cool as mechs.

what's the point of this shit?
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/search/image/eEvo7Batzyrfk5nU-UvuKg/

>>96010949
>Which for most vehicles is the thing the players will be looking at on a miniature
There can be a tank commander popping out of the hatch is visible. Plus, imagination. I visualize lots.

>Their responsibilities are too divided for any one of them to be heroic.
Again, you might as well claim the Battle of Midway or the D-Day Landings were not heroic because there was too many people. This claim is legitimately stupid, so please stop making it.

>there’s no such thing as “good” disposability
There is for their equipment that they're using, which is the point.

>Not as cool as mechs.
I like both just fine, but I am more in a tank phase right now.

>>96011004
Looks like a lot got 0 replies, so he's clearly not (You) farming. Lil sad, ngl.

>>96010949
>there’s no such thing as “good” disposability
Well, it'd be good if we disposed of OP...

>>96010654 (OP)
nah, tanks are cool. Mechs are lame. The party should have a tank in their back line to remove anyone or anything that's particularly offensive too them

>>96010654 (OP)
>gets deleted by a $ 0.20 cent drone

>>96010900
Generals are for gameless faggots who use /tg/ as a replacement for having fun in their lives.

>>96011148
>tanks are cool.
Agree.

>Mechs are lame.
Disagree.

Both are cool.

>>96010654 (OP)
Gundam had it the other way around: MS-heavy bad guys fighting good guys who mostly operated tanks.

>>96011262
There's a reason the story starts when they get mobile suits too.

>>96011171
Sounds like you then.

>>96010949
>driving isn't heroic
Fuck you.

>>96011177
I'm willing to compromise. Some mechs, bipedal, 2-3m tall, very bulky, proof against up to 14.5mm AP, advanced sensors, modular weapon loadouts (heavy machine guns, grenade launchers, rocket pods), auxiliary manipulator hands, fully NBC protection, mobility like a running human (no endurance limitation (until the battery runs out)).
That could still be cool I think

>>96011467
It's been done.

>>96011169
Mechs are way too durable to be taken out by a drone.

>>96012980
Fuck that and fuck you. In a setting where both exist, they'd both have access to the same ultra-durable fantasy materials, the same weapons loadouts, etc. The only real difference is form factor affecting the best places to deploy them.

>>96010654 (OP)
Please stop spamming/flooding our community with your low quality surveypost.
https://sys.4chan.org/derefer?url=https%3A%2F%2Farchive.4plebs.org%2Ftg%2Fsearch%2Fimage%2FeEvo7Batzyrfk5nU-UvuKg%2F

>>96013222
This isn’t true, in battletech conventional vehicles do not have access to Myomer and its cost inefficient to put a nuclear engine in them

>>96013222
The vast majority of drones are just waiting for people get out of the vehicle or open their hatches, which is why cope cages work. Pretty much all mechs are designed to operate buttoned up permanently. They're just not designed for this job, the materials being equivalent don't matter unless the mechs have extremely powerful tiny light anti-tank bombs that could instantly disable them that the drones could use.

>>96010654 (OP)
the bolo community is strangely filled with tradcath larpers and wannabe school shooters, i don't know why this particular series of books attracts them so much.

>>96010654 (OP)
>posting a hero-level tonk and claiming he's a faceless villain
This is now a tank thread.

>>96010949
>And driving isn’t heroic.

Tell me you have no real world military experience without telling me you have no real world military experience.

>>96010654 (OP)
Sorry OP, but reading through the thread so far it would appear the consensus is that you are a gay retard. As such, every opinion you have in this thread is wrong and you will now be subject to relentless mockery.

>>96014315
Sure, here's a tank that's literally a movie villain.

>>96010654 (OP)
>>96014315
Some heroes and their tank, for retard OP

>>96014315
Different heroes and their tank. So faceless and menacing.

>>96011294
Yeah but the tanks were still the ones doing the bulk of the ground fighting.

>>96014663
Only two of them are heroes. The other three are pieces of shit that went war whacky and ruined the one nice moment the two actual heroes were trying to have.

>>96014758
Sure, but they are human, and definitely not face less.

>>96014791
True. OP is still gay and retarded for claiming tank crews can't be humanized.

>>96014044
I vaguely remember there being a nuke variant of the Hetzer back when I was doing some redesigns. Went and checked my memory
>fusion engines
close enough.

>>96014663
Those aren't heroes, none of them do anything heroic.

>>96010654 (OP)
If the tank has a personality and is painted in good guy colors, it's good. If it's stripped of all personal touches and is unpainted or in bad guy colors, it's bad.

What about tiny tanks?

>>96011299
>gets so tilted you have just no u
pathetic

>>96020075
They kill nazi scumbags. That makes them heroes in the eyes of the overwhelming majority of the world, chud.

>>96020252
I'd argue it being a tankette. Though Slugs are a bit heavily armed for tankette.
Anyway, tanks are sexually dimorphic.

>>96010654 (OP)
I'd argue no since in order for a tank to actually do its job effectively and be an imposing battlefield presence, there needs to be a close bond between its crew while a mech is generally depicted as a solo affair that elevates the power of its individual pilot to enforce their will on others, thus evoking autocracy and the black knights of legend.

>>96010654 (OP)
On the flip side, the crew-oriented nature of tanks can represent teamwork and camaraderie, while a mech can represent the oversized ego of its individual pilot. A tank can represent reliability and simplicity compared to more complicated mechs. It can create an underdog image for the crew and vehicle facing a technologically superior foe.

>>96020282
>They kill nazi scumbags.
Only some of them do. The driver just drives. The commander just commands. The loader just loads. Neither of those kill anyone.

>>96020671
Wrong. You clearly haven't seen the movie. Throughout the course of the movie,beach one of them personally kills at least one nazi scumbag.

>>96010654 (OP)
Tank crews have a good number of bros all working towards a common goal. The war is hell, the tank is your home. You both loathe it & rely on it for protection. Everyone pulls their own weight. You have to constantly fix it & protect it too.

Tankbros are fucking comfy

>>96010654 (OP)
Some of my favorite battles from the Black Crusade campaign I play (and the Dark Heresy campaign which came before) were with all of us packed into a Leman Russ or a Predator.

>>96010654 (OP)
the real bad guy military unit is infantry.
>but good guys use infantry too!
yes but the good guys don't have full helmets and heavily-standardized uniforms

>>96020252
>tiny tanks
Great for urban operations

>>96011004
'Innovative tactics are warranted.'

>>96011148
I've seen countless examples of mechs beating tanks despite being outnumbered, but I've never seen tanks beat mechs without vastly outnumbering them.

>>96020282
>the overwhelming majority
I wouldn't say that's true, India and China hate the British Empire far more than they do the Nazis, and view its collapse by the costs their aggression incurred as largely positive. That precludes an "overwhelming" majority. WW2 is mostly a westoid phenomenon.

>>96022555
Probably because most pieces of media need to make mechs vastly more powerful than tanks in order to get those "hero moments". It seems to take a fair amount of self restraint to keep a mech even semi-reasonably grounded in its setting and so you are unlikey to get the opposite scenario. The only one I can think of off the top of my head is the Patlabor 2 movie.

>>96022555
There's not much appeal in coming up with a fantasy machine if it kind of sucks. If you have landbattleships or space fighters or lightsabers or whatever, they're generally gonna be a big threat, not just a shrug and keeping on with what you're doing.

>>96022773
That's why there needs to be a setting where mechs were invented before tanks, so tanks can be the new scary weapon.

>>96020252
Meng World War Toons has some cool chibi versions of WW2 tanks out there. Some people use them as alternatives to over priced GW models.

A tank is like a horse. It can either be a heroic, noble steed or an unwitting, abused pawn of evil. By their nature they tend towards being good.

It's worth noting that unlike mechs often replacing tanks, tanks were originally conceived as a way to 'help' horseback cavalry achieve their goals by acting as a mobile wall and line-breaker who smashed machine guns and other nasty things that could easily kill a horse so the cavalry behind them could exploit the gap they made.
Hence you often see them working in concert with knights in fantasy settings.

>>96010654 (OP)
>some of thr most honorable and human AIs written in fiction
>commanded by a single human, outside of special purpose mark XXI
>so graceful one combat unit managed to use its repulsive to JUMP over a child to avoid killing it
>multiple stories specifically about how units get fucked over by uneducated and uninformed leaders
>so expensive their cost is a major plot point in multiple stories
Read "A Time to Killl" and get fucked for doing Bolos dirty.

>>96022627
>>96022773
could analyze the battlefield and the pros and cons with bipedal combat vehicles to come up with mechs that fill a specific battlefield niche where they operate as part of a combined arms force.
This is very rarely done however

>>96011169
>>96012980
>concertina wire has entered the chat
Amateurs, ngmi

>>96023411
There's like a hundred ways to clear wire, including flattening it or sticking wire cutters on everything. You can even just blow them up.

Ironically they seem to have stopped bothering to deploy them in the field because it exposes you to drones for ages and there's so many way to circumvent them. Including the fact that they don't stop drones at all.

>>96023490
The only effective way to negate concertina wires is to wait for the engineers to clear it. I am unaware if Army tankers get issued MICLIC in 2025. most likely not.
The second is to avoid it.
Once that wire gets in the tread that tank is done.

>>96010654 (OP)
>Tanks are not only good guys
>They're often better than humans.

>>96010654 (OP)
>Faceless
>tank
Bruv.

>>96023533
>when the tanks get tangled up with wire through the drive wheel and the crew look over and a mech holding a comically big pair of wire cutters is going straight through it

>>96013222
There's a reason we have nuclear powered subs and boats but no nuclear powered sports cars.

Sometimes things are only effective on large vehicles and sometimes they're only effective on small vehicles.

>>96020282
Don't they murder allied POWs because they can't understand them?

>>96021624
Full helmets are cool AF and if thinking that makes me a bad guy then so be it.

>>96010654 (OP)
The bad guys should be more individualistic while the good guys have to use teamwork.

>>96014621
I'd say it's an anti-villain, an ace crew opposing the protagonist. It would've been the heroes' vehicle if the story was told from their perspective.

>>96024230
You got me. I went too IRL 'tism and forgot about
>/tg/
I concede

>>96024255
No. They kill an SS officer who surrendered because the village they liberated said he was the one responsible for the children who were hanged outside the village for refusing to fight.

While you could say that's technically a war crime, I think the majority of people would say they were justified in executing that SS officer since he was guilty of far worse war crimes like using child soldiers and murdering any of those children who refused to fight. And we aren't talking teenagers here. Some of the kids the SS officer had executed for "cowardice" looked like they were younger than 10.

So yeah, while executing him after he surrendered was technically an illegal act, I'd argue they are still heroic for doing so and this is an instance where morality and legality don't necessarily align with each other. And a hero always does what is moral, even if what is moral may be illegal.

>>96024243
What are you talking about?
Nuclear powered cars have been shown to be very effective.

>>96026229
But the Mr Fusion only powers the Flux Capacitor, the engine still runs on Gasoline...

>>96022874
The fact a tank's silhouette is so inhuman yet still has anthropomorphisable traits make them like animals in perception.

>>96024255
I think that was saving private ryan

>>96024243
>see, the fantasy elements only apply to the things I like

>>96010949
>Which for most vehicles is the thing the players will be looking at on a miniature
Same can be said of mechs. Faceless, nameless, expendable.
>Their responsibilities are too divided for any one of them to be heroic.
Have you never seen mechs piloted by multiple people before? Also, tanks can totally be controlled by one person if we go by sci-fi logic here. Ever seen the Scorpions from Halo?
>Not compared to a mech, which could be doing backflips through that same terrain, summersaulting through the air or even flying.
If we're ignoring physics to the point where a multi-ton vehicle with spindly-ass legs is doing fucking backflips, there is absolutely zero reason you can't be racing around in a tank like a sports car. Assuming the same level of technology, a tank (a regular, treaded tank) will always be faster and more agile than a mech. Always.
>No, cannon fodder is always evil, there’s no such thing as “good” disposability, if a good person does sacrifice themselves they’ll do so doing an action that wipes out scores of their enemies in the process.
Never seen the hallway scene in Rogue One, eh?

Or for that matter, seen media where mechs are mowed down en-mass by the protagonist's mech. Mechs can be hero units or redshirt units. Nothing about a mech is inherently designed for protagonists - in a lot of mech media where mechs are more common than tanks, mechs are standard issue.
>Not as cool as mechs.
You have shit taste.

>>96029889
>Faceless, nameless, expendable.
There's nothing expendable about mechs. Name a single time in any media where we see a mechs outnumbering tanks and still getting defeated. I can't think of a single time. But I can think of many times where tanks outnumbered mechs but were still beaten.

>>96011148
>nah, tanks are cool. Mechs are lame.
This

>>96010949
>Not compared to a mech, which could be doing backflips through that same terrain, summersaulting through the air or even flying
Sounds gay

>>96014671
Shame that only CGDCT treats tanks well in anime

>>96029943
>name one
Literally Gundam. 80% of all land battles in Gundam lore were won by tanks. There's a focus on mechs because no shit it's Gundam but tanks still rout mechs without main character armor almost every time

>>96030922
Tanks and aircraft fought a retreating battle with the federation and it took multiple tanks to compete with a single zaku. Once the GM was put out, combat became almost entirely decided with mech fights and this got even worse as mechs became stronger over the war, especially after the adoption of beam weapons. Past the end of the oyw mechs were the main combat unit, conventional tanks and aircraft basically almost disappeared from irrelevancy.
I honestly don't know where you got this from. Mechs are the absolute winner in gundam. I don't think there's any gundam series that shows them being on par.

>>96024299
Just get 4 mechs together and you can still have teamwork.

>>96020573
>while a mech is generally depicted as a solo affair that elevates the power of its individual pilot to enforce their will on others, thus evoking autocracy and the black knights of legend.
Aside from the entire genre of mechs that have multiple pilots

>>96031131
NTA, but mobile suits came to ascendancy later on.
I think the above anon is referencing the One Year War, before MS became widespread and conventional vehicles were still the mainstay. That changed with the introduction of the Gundam. Even still, tanks and planes were cheaper, and well placed tank shot would still pulp a pilot because the armor of a MS just wasn't that good., and the price exchange favored the tank.
I think Macross serves your argument better, because in Macross, the mechs carried far more tank busting armaments.
MMM is a thing for a reason. Being able to annihilate an entire tank division with a single mech changes the calculation.

>>96033510
>MMM is a thing for a reason
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzXfVgYCxWI

>>96022874
Being reminded of Valkyria Chronicles got me thinking, is there any way to make this sort of armored division group set up viable in TTRPGs?
And I don't mean like "oh one character is special and controls the tank" since while that's decent enough for some friend group playing a homebrew, I mean actual system rules designed around the concept of having a group of people and one heavily armored tank (or some other vehicle) where you presumably lose when it dies and where you don't make someone special by giving him the control.
I can't think of any fun way of maybe splitting tank control into stuff like gunner, driver, commander etc. since in TTRPGs you can't really make it interesting if your only job is to basically roll for hitting the enemy because you're the gunner, besides that having most of your player group actually be in a tank misses the point entirely too.

So maybe some sort of system where each player controls a person then everyone controls the tank together, at least in terms of rules since in terms of fluff obviously inside a tank is a commander and tank crew separate from the PCs.
So it boils down to this (at least to me because there may completely different solutions), how do you make multiple players control one entity in an interesting way?
Each turn someone else controls it? Though that would result in completely schizophrenic actions as basically every 2 seconds the tank driver changes his plans completely.
Voting? But that would also result in a lot of bickering between players and probably take way longer than it has any right to when multiple people have to arrive at a consensus.
Some sort of token system where you spend tokens for control? But that would change it from the ace unit of your squad you support and vice versa to everyone treating it as a bizarre meta PvP game of trying to control the tank like it's Everyone's John.
Is there any way to make this work?
Is there any game making players control one unit cooperatively?

>>96033510
That's not a setting where they're equal, it's a setting where they had a gap in the tech race that they were losing until they caught up and started making their own mechs. And even that was mainly only against zakus, which while they're very cool, totally suck.
Once the beam weapon, shield and mobility meta was established by the last few months, tanks didn't really have a place on the battlefield and they began to disappear from the setting entirely.

tbf I'm still just stunned at where the fuck someone would get "tanks still rout mechs without main character armor almost every time". It's like hearing someone say 4 inches is average. Who told him that lol

>>96022616
India can go swivel for all I care and the Chinese don't care about the British at all, they hate the Japanese not the British.
>.t British and my wife is Chinese her grandmother thinks the world of me while that same Grandmother hates my sister-laws husband because he's Japanese.

>>96010654 (OP)
>Requires multiple crew, taking away the heroism
Nonsense. Quite the opposite.
>>96010900
You forgot your tranime avatar, faggot.

>>96010654 (OP)
>military vehicle is associated with militarism
woah no shit

>>96010654 (OP)
>rounded and friendly
>short stubby gun
>very wide profile
>more known for its dependability and versatility rather than its dueling capabilities
heroic tank

>>96038504
Even in WW2 mechs still beat tanks.

>>96038601
I hear the mechs in this move like tanks anyway, what a shame

In my setting, there are multiple types of mech. The lower two tiers are on par with conventional ear vehicles and the highest tier mech units can alter the tide of a battle single-handedly but can still be taken down with coordinated effort. That means tanks and jets are still common sights in most battles.
In an early chapter of the game the players were able to take out multiple mechs using tanks and jets, as well as critically damage a high tier mech. In later chapters their mech battalion was able to win against conventional forces but experienced significant losses.
The dedicated "bad guy" nation uses a mix of all vehicle and mech types but focuses on low tier mechs more than anything

>>96036421
NTA, but actually read the accurate information that has been said by others in this thread. At the beginning of the timeline, tanks are the "good guys" and, when massed, are often displayed as defeating faceless MS "bad guys." As the timeline progresses, it moves quickly to rough parity, then overwhelming advantage for mechs. It is a question of series timeline more than anything else. Just as you yourself pointed out, one of the major themes of the series is the -Tech Race-.

>>96051368
>actually read the accurate information that has been said
>80% of all land battles in Gundam lore were won by tanks
>tanks still rout mechs without main character armor almost every time
This is something a person was told who hadn't watched the show and it sounded right and they repeated it.
So far two random niggas have come in to NTA and defend the stupidest fucking take in the thread, so I dunno what it is that's catnip to niggas like you about this.

Tanks were used because it was all they had and they were losing hard. Then the heroic good mobile suits arrive and save the day. The tanks are thematically dipshit town guard being killed by the orcs till the hero showed up. They're still very much not protagonistic, they're also faceless goons. They also almost never show tanks winning anything. Cause they didn't win much, they sucked.

>>96051781
>This is something a person was told who hadn't watched the show and it sounded right and they repeated it.
its all from expanded material, which explained the greater context of the war not seen in the show
within the show, tanks are expendable redshirts for the earth part of the show until they are replaced entirely in the space part of the show

but the show says that the war was at a stalemate at the start of the show, so they just quickly said that the tanks were holding the line from the start of the show up until odessa, the last battle fought where federation MS were a minority

>>96020252
I love them a lot. For the plucky heroes, or just the hero's personal ride he sleeps inside. Personalizes it a lot and has a connection to it.

>>96020252
Modern tankettes.

>>96010918
>>Associated with militarism and authoritarianism
>So are soldiers, doesn't stop soldiers from being heroes
soldiers are heroes despite being associated with authoritarianism, not because of it
them being protectors of the people wins out
but enforcing a regime isn't heroic

>>96051957
Gundam isn't star wars, the source books are just fluff. They're fun to read but they all contradict each other and invent shit that clearly isn't in the show at all. They're below "it's canon if the show doesn't contradict it", they're just sort of there making things up.

If you try to go full EU with the secondary material, then there were like 100 different gundams in the OYW. I swear a bunch of them even existed before the rx-78 somehow.

>>96010654 (OP)
I used a German Hanomag (half-tank) for the gold transport in my African adventure for Dicey Tales. Other cool ideas can include everything from jungle yachts to armored trains for an Interwar pulp setting.

>>96010654 (OP)
I always thought of helis as the premier villain vehicle.

>>96010654 (OP)
Yeah, until you're in one and you realize tanks are the main characters of modern warfare.

>>96010654 (OP)
You're retarded in a way that wpuld be tiresome to elaborate on. Kill yourself you engagememt farming nogames.

>>96011171
>Generals are for gameless faggots
Yeah, and you missed it.

>>96010654 (OP)
Yeah, tanks are for nazis
Good guys fight on bike and have walkable trenches

>>96024255
No, they just gunned down German prisoners because Spiers' brother died in Crete and he heard about it that day

>>96020573
>a mech is generally depicted as a solo affair that elevates the power of its individual pilot to enforce their will on others, thus evoking autocracy and the black knights of legend.
I always thought mechs were more like fighter pilots from the World Wars

>>96036246
>how do you make multiple players control one entity in an interesting way?
Whoever is close enough to yell into the tank phone gets his way

>>96052891
The anime also contradicts itself on multiple occasions. Also people way more autistic about mecha than I am already did the math and determined that even an Abrams has the firepower to down a mech, let alone the more advanced anime tank models

>>96064567
>even an Abrams has the firepower to down a mech
I know better than to care about milfags doing the math against fantasy designs with numbers that don't real. Tomino didn't give a shit, why should I?
>let alone the more advanced anime tank models
And they don't. You can't math your way out of what happens on screen not happening. The gundam runs up and punts a tank over the horizon, and if the numbers don't make sense, tough titties.

Tankfag threads earnestly need to be ban-on-sight. The OP uniformly will make this thread, post his folder of modern day tanks, literally never once even imply he's using them for a game, get mad at mechfags and other sci-fi/fantastical weapons because they contradict his non-game realistic assertions, and then continue spamming images of real-life non-game tanks until 404. There is nothing here that belongs on /tg/. This is 100% a /k/ thread that needs to be moved there or deleted outright.

>>96033383
>Entire genera
Aside from Pacific Rim, all multi-pilot mechs are super robots, just like how single-pilot tanks are usually found in the super hero genera.

>>96065593
>pacific rim isn't super robots

>>96064794
Good thing most know better than to give a shit about mechfags and their insecurities. Go play with toys and be happy, assuming anyone has play how you do is retarded. At least "realism" (which tanks and the like inherently btfo mecha in) have a claim to better generalizability (which also shouldn't be autisically pursued) on the basis of functioning according to familiar physics. Your beloved genre's conventions are broadly irrelevant.
>>96064865
>implying OP is a tankfag
Assuming the nigger is sincere about anything it's shitting all over the story variety as possible with tanks as any other transportation-focused plot. It's a shitter leaking from the mecha general.

Metal Max and Blaster Master are the best for this

>>96011467
Kitty :D

>>96072753
>b-b-b-but it's not heckin REAL!
Didn't ask, don't care. 4chan and tabletop games are proud pro-mecha spaces and we aren't going to stop just because you fill your pants over it.
A zaku would easily defeat an abrams because it is faster and more powerful. This what happens in the show.