Thread 96018741

You're not my real dad edition

Previous Heresy:
>>96010235

>HH 3.0 Leaks
https://imgur.com/a/C7NLFxm
https://imgur.com/a/ThwkCe3

>New Edition Soon™
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/setting/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/

>New to The Horus Heresy? Here’s Everything You’ll Need to Get Started
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/05/30/new-to-the-horus-heresy-heres-everything-youll-need-to-get-started/
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>Thread FAQ (very old, remembers Age of Terra)
https://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8
https://pastebin.com/8riDmnhS
>30k TACTICA & TIPS
https://pastebin.com/Tm2P4QLp
https://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Age_of_Darkness-Warhammer_30k/2.0_Tactics/General_Tactics

>MEGAs are down for the time being, going to wait for things to cooldown with the new edition and leaks before bringing them back up

『Adeptus Titanicus and Legions Imperialis』
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/legions-imperialis/
>List of Titan Legions with Badges and Colours
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17Jccq0V--SwJifLVLwbisYnQeqLlS2pMSiPbGXp1Brs/htmlview
>More lists
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_Titan_Legions
>What size magnets do I need?
5x1mm
>Tactics
https://1d6chan.miraheze.orug/wiki/Adeptus_Titanicus/Tactics

>Thread Question:
How are you sending off 2.0?

>>96018741 (OP)
won't be playing HH3 so no need to send off anything

>>96018741 (OP)
>How are you sending off 2.0?
Studding every 2.0 book up into my anuses's hole.

>>96018759
But anon, you've never played HH. You don't even own models.

Reposting to illuminate lurkers.

>Go to GW store to get the free goremonger
>You have to assemble and paint it in store, and there’s a huge line of people waiting for their turn
>literally would have had to spend like 4 hours there to just begin assembling
Wtf man, guess no goremonger techpriest for me.
Are they always like this?

>>96018766
yeah. I never played a single game of HH or w40k. But I like to think that all my begging is to get a full working army. The idea that my 4 predators could not longer be legal/good and at the same time wasted time/money/social interaction time, makes me feel really bad. Like physicaly I need to get more heart medications, just thinking about third edition.

Basedjack dark gods aren't something I knew I needed.

>>96018810
At my store they have a cap of 30 models, and like 15-20 of them are "gone" even if you are first in the line before the store opens. and I don't mean reserved, you can't get any model without reserving it two weeks in advance.
4 hours isn't that bad. I remember waiting 3-5 hours to buy bread in the 80s.

>>96018833
FUCKING AUTOCORRECT

>>96018810
It’s a dogshit model so it’s no loss

Where can I find the backpack tanks they used to make the more heavily armed Mortus Poisoners?

>>96018810
lol, at mine you can pick between either getting it in bits or having it pre-assembled by store staff. No fuss, no muss.

can I use the venerable dreadnought and an iron clad as is in 30k or do I need to modify it? it's about as blinged out as the average Praetor or resin dread model

>>96018895
Phaestos-pattern Heavy Flamer from Forge World, no longer available for purchase. Either kitbash your own or 3d print, desu.

>>96018895
Don't know why they got hard vacuum modifications on their helmets.

>>96018895
I think they're from the Phaistos-pattern heavy flamer set FW used to sell

>>96018936
to seal the smell inside.

>>96018936
they seem to be using alchem flamers so they probably don't wanna take chances getting stinky death gas in their lungs

>>96018936
With that much in the way of toxic gas, you might want to be hard-sealed?

>>96018839
Wow, Poland really is a shithole.

Anyone know of a good place to get 3rd party lascannon and larger las-weapons?

>>96018810
Cut it from the frame, put all the bits into that little box you are given, and run when they aren't looking.
The fuck are they going to do? Ban you for taking a free model?

>>96018741 (OP)
>How are you sending off 2.0?
4k 1v1, 5x7 table, no FOC, as many super heavies as we can carry. Im bringing my falchion, asterius, maegera, styrix and atrapos.

>>96018951
You'd imagine the hard vacuum modification is against vacuum, not toxic gas. There's a whole host of modifications for different purposes in the setting, so there has to be differences between them.

>>96019046
Both keep the current exterior solidly out.

>>96018741 (OP)
>TQ
Got a Narrative event in the 16th august, so be taking the jump pack assault list I've been working on

Just finished 4 dudes, got the icon left to do

>>96018895
>>96018936
>>96019046
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Wnz5OGb6sM

>>96019058
No, one keeps the interior in.That is a big difference. Void is nothing, literally, you dont keep it out you keep atmosphere and pressure in. Dont let NASA training videos confuse you. Void sealed does not equal corrosive/flame resistant by default. It may at best be water resistant up to a certain depth.

Take picrel, a shockingly realistic depiction of what phospex and flamers would do. It would eat the weaker seals in the joints and flood the interior leaving the armor intact. The marine could survive indefinitely in the void and perhaps even certain ocean depths, but when exposed to something hot and/or corrosive enough there are no materials that keep the joints flexible enough that could resist it.

>>96019098
This is why phosphex is high AP, it doesn't melt armor, it melts the marine inside it.

>>96019115
Then why does the lore say that phosphex can burn through solid rock, adamantium, and ceramite?

>>96019098
Who would win:
1) Up-armoured exo-suit designed to operate in plasma reactors and pressurized chemical tanks.
2) Some burning fuel.

>>96019098
Isn't phosphex suppose to burn with a green flame?
>>96019138
If only it still could...

>>96018741 (OP)
>TQ
I'm not, it's my edition with FAQ for the foresseable future. Will be fun to watch the 3,0 crashout.

>>96019098
You keep the atmosphere in by ensuring it's completely sealed. Sure, the nature of pressure is different, but I'm not talking about pressure. Void hardened augments will allow them to completely seal the suit's otherwise non-sealed parts and possibly contain extra oxygen storage.

Most marines can be sealed, but aren't necessarily by default, and will take and filter air from the planet they're on - which wouldn't work against the sort of alchem shit DG throw out, so rather than filter it, you just keep it right out.

Won't necessarily work on phosphex, or if the alchem shit can eat through armour, but it will stop the gas from getting inside otherwise.

>>96019145
What you mean, even after most phosphex got nerfed into oblivion in 2.0 the worst phosphex still has AP 3, meaning it goes through power armour - which is made of plasteel or ceramite.

>>96019151
Air-tight doesn't always mean water-tight (not all chemical weapons are just gas), corrosive resistant, etc. Not all seals also work both ways. A seal can stop air from getting out, but not in. Simply put, not all seals are equal.

>>96019149
say the line

>>96019175
>Air-tight doesn't always mean water-tight
Pretty sure it does though? I can't think of anything that prevents air passing through but doesn't prevent water molecules - which are much larger - passing through.

>>96019139
I know you're having a gaff, but for those that think you're serious:
>plasma reactors
Force field against passive energy/radiation vs getting shot by a plasmacannon
>and pressurized chemical tanks.
Plenty of chemicals are corrosive but not designed to be offensive weapons
Both examples would have high wear and tear on the weakest parts of he suits under normal controlled circumstances and require regular maintenance

>>96019151
>which wouldn't work against the sort of alchem shit DG throw out
Limited exposure, perhaps from a splash or mist, maybe. But a weapon designed for war? Even autoguns can wear down marines and those dont have the net effect of seemingly seeking weaker parts. A corrosive liquid or burning fuel would burn the seals in the joints given enough exposure. Even normal flamers can down marines too. You cant up armor the joints enough to be the level of a chest plate, there has to be gaps to have mobility and within those gaps, softer flexible material. There is no in universe material that is mass produced on a legion scale that is resistant enough to seal those joints against all matter of chemical or heat attack. Like modern body armor there are levels of protection. Nothing is actually "x-proof" only increasingly levels of resistant.

>>96019185
It doesn't, air tight is typically 1 atmosphere of pressure, you need only keep ambient air out or in. A NASA suit cant survive a pol for training but it cannot survive deeper depth where the pressure increases. Water tight also has depth ratings.

>>96019196
>cant survive a pol for training
fucking phone; can survive a pool depth*

>TQ
Printing out 720 SA lasrifle troops to play maxed out ultramar cohorts in a 6k pts per player apoc game.
Might keep playing 2.0 depending on how 3.0 turns out.

>>96019196
Try using english next time lol.

You can argue for water pressure all you like, but chemical weapons are not applying the same pressure on seals as the depths of the fucking ocean.

>>96019196
No, air tight or water tight refers to wether air or water can pass in or out of something.

You're talking about positive or negative pressure, which aren't actually linked to a given material. You'll get more pressure from gasses in saturn than water anywhere on earth, and you're correct that being able to keep one atmosphere in is very different to keeping several atmospheres out, but that's not what airtight or watertight are.

>>96019202
>Plays SA
>Wants to remain in 2.0 rather than move back to 1.0
Fucking hell anon, are you into CBT too or something?

>>96019208
No one is saying the chem weapons are metal gear ray levels of cutting ship hulls in half with a water jet. That is just contextual information on why a suit that can survive in space cant survive in the depth of the sea because air tight, water tight, and void rated may have overlap but aren't the same thing.

The real argument is that the seals of the joints are only resistant to flame and chemical weapons. Just because they can survive a corrosive or high heat atmosphere for a limited time(eg less than a temperate one), doesn't mean they are magically acid or flamer proof. Because, using context clues from the above, any given material is only resistant to outside factors.

>>96019210
You can google air tight vs water tight and if it is the same, its not

>>96019238
>You can google air tight vs water tight and if it is the same, its not
It's not the same, no.
What's water tight is not necessarily airtight. But what's airtight IS necessarily watertight, as any hole water can get through, air can also get through.

You did look it up, anon, right? You didn't just skim the AI summary and take that on faith?

>this glass can stop large hail, and by extension small caliber bullets such as .22LR and 9mm
>"its bullet proof against weapons designed for combat!"
/thread

>>96019243
I'm so glad power armor has rules such as:
>Flamer, melta, chemical, and any weapon that has a liquid or gaseous form or is described as heat based, cannot wound any model equipped with power armor

>>96019260
I'm glad you're happy, but that's got basically nothing to do with what I said.
Not my fault you don't know what airtight is, my dude.

Being resistant to the fumes that come off your poison flamer as it reduces meat to sludge doesn't mean it's immune to the poison flamer, what are you retards babbling about?

>>96019098
>>96019115
That's not phosphex. That guy is just escaping from a burning land raider attacked by a Russ armed with Lascannons.
Yes, the guy wearing plasma-reactor hazard suit is on fire. Fucking LMAO

Is the "Quad Launcher" and the Thudd Gun the same thing? It's basically a mortar on wheels?

>>96019405
yes

>>96019405
They're the same thing yeah. Idk why 4 barrels; it's not a Gatling gun firing a hundred bullets per second.
You could have a single barrel when using a feed system, which the rapier does have.
Why can't they be given better threads and be ridden like bikes? Lol

Since we're talking about Phospex, does anyone know which Terminator armour mark Angels Naufragia wore?

>>96018810
My tiny-ass store just handed the boxes to people
I shall put my best effort forward for your sake

>>96019217
It's what people in my area play. I don't mind being at a disadvantage, and most people don't power game so it's not complete hell.

>>96018810
Lol, no. My store you just walk in and ask for one.

>>96019405
I want to stick one of those on a Dreadnought, love me some big guns.

never change, tg

>>96019434
It is never stated, but given Marduk Sedras is in cataphractii armour, they are properly too.
Also cataphractii offer the best ABC protection of any armor.

>>96018936
>>96019046
>fake grog doesn't recognize reinforced MkIV helmets used by destroyers
>>96019405
They are HH era Thunderfire Cannons.

>>96019138
Burn rates are different. It'll burn through the seals/joints and the fleshy bits inside before it gets through the ceramite. And then it'll keep burning until the armor is gone. And everything else.

>>96018741 (OP)
>TQ
We've got our send off event tomorrow, using all the models that we didn't get a chance to play with before the end of 2.0. Don't worry, I'm running the plasma myrmidons as volkite ones, theres a reason i never ran them this edition.

>>96019196
>cant survive a pol for training
Nothing can survive the pressure of /pol/, anon.

>>96019426
I think it launches 4 projectiles at once.

>>96019580
I like thunderfire cannons better desu. Luckily the Rapier crew is looking more like a techmarine artillerist this time around

>>96019769
The thunderfire techmarine is a great model by itself.

>>96019426
an artillery barrage is useful for suppressing the enemy, to do that you want to eliminate or at least blind, concuss and jostle every single enemy so none are in artillery gaps and safely lascannoning your squad that is trying to cross the street thinking they are safe.

hitting the area with 4 mortars at same time does a better saturation. Having 4 rapiers with 1 barrel each would be wasteful on tracks and armor plating (those tracks are hefty enough to even manage 8 gun barrels)

Firing one barrel with more rapid reloads still leaves some gaps and is requiring luck that you'll hit the right spot at the right time. And unlike real artillery that can shoot 4 altitudes so all the rounds impact when you want - imperium tech is largely gameboy level for non-sensor stuff, so the simple approach is safer. Also 4 gun barrels is 4x more reliable. If you have a belt of 50 rounds feeding 1 single mortar tube, a few dings from an enemy rifle to the 1 tube or ammo delivery mechanism and you've lost 100% of the weapon. If one of the 4 barrels is crippled, this would retain 75% of its firepower which is obviously better.

Reason we wouldn't do this in real life was you don't need the tracks when you just have men carry handheld tubes (more stealthy + easier on logistics than a vehicle) A carriage is only necessary when you want such an enormous huge gun that it can reach like many miles away beyond the reach of your handheld device. The 4 small barrels don't get any extra range over handhelds, but mortars just look silly being used by ceramite marines.

Thunderfire looks better than the 30k mortars. From the recoil dampeners and huge ground bracing and long barrels, it's actually looks like it fires meaty enough rounds to suppress ceramite while the rapier just looks effective on cultist hordes. Rapier crew looks better, the thunderfire guy is so dense he'd sink 5 feet into any soft ground.

>>96019580
How does MkIV destroyers explain the usage of the hard vacuum modification? Don't DG have their very own gas mask head specifically because they use chemical weapons?

Would it make sense for a squad of word bearers vets sent to calth to use mk2,ml3, or mk5? No mk4 isn't an option, these guys are part of the rejects sent to calth not the favored ones from the dropsite massacre

>>96019927
Mk II or V work for under-supplied rejects, thought Mk V really wouldn't be a thing until the heresy kicked off, so Calth probably shouldn't have seen too much of it.

>>96019477
How many of them play IF or DA

>>96019903
>How does MkIV destroyers explain the usage of the hard vacuum modification?
It's called "Void hardened" in the HH or just Hardened or Heavy armour, and it's how Destroyers get extra protection against NBQ stuff. FW may have based their design in the Index Astartes art, but that was 15 years ago and 10 after IA.
>Don't DG have their very own gas mask head
That's just a DG mk4 variant, straight outta Visions and Crysos Morturg

>>96019927
>>96019942
You're both wrong. The WB sent to Calth came from all levels of the legion and weren't undersupplied at all. They had tons of Mk4 and mk5. The later probably to cover for not having enough mk4 for all the guys during their huge pre-heresy recruintment surge.

>>96020004
>straight outta Visions and Crysos Morturg
Correction: FW made him a Destroyer, so technically his helmet should be a Destroyer helmet. But not all destroyers wore special gear.

Is there a point to centurions in tartaros armor over artificer armor? They get access to almost all the same weapons. The only difference is inexorable on the tartaros.

>>96020074
+1 wound

>>96019238
mother fucker, they test space suits in water as well. How ican the hardsuit configuration not be air AND water tight?
Or is this another situation of anon finds out he's losing the argument so he's tripling down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsZLKH1IgfM

>>96020090
You missed the point, the whole argument arc was levels of resistance and examples. A NASA suit can survive a pool used in training but won't survive the ocean depths. You cannot go deep sea diving with a NASA EVA suit. As a parallel comparison, a power armor suit can survive hostile environments that would melt your skin, but burning promethium would end up killing you.

>>96018810
Sadly they leave it completely up to manager's discretion how to use them. My local will give you one if you just show up and ask, but if you come back for the next freebie and haven't bought anything there in the meantime they'll always have mysteriously "run out".

>>96020004
>It's called "Void hardened" in the HH or just Hardened or Heavy armour, and it's how Destroyers get extra protection against NBQ stuff.
Solar Auxilia had Void Hardened armour before 2.0. Destroyers have always just had Power Armour without anything else. Breachers had Hardened Armour and HSS could buy Hardened Armour.
>That's just a DG mk4 variant, straight outta Visions and Crysos Morturg
It's specifically mentioned as being an augmented filter apparatus.

>>96020036
>void hardened power armored dude with duel chainswords
>cataphratii armored centurion or better with a power sword
I always thought 'WB needs to fucking run' when seeing this picture.

>>96020122
if I visit a shop and the manager gave all the freebies to his friends I glance around, maybe buy one pot of paint and then leave.

The fucktards think they're rewarding loyalty but they're actually just driving away customers by using them as bribes. And he got sacked by GW for being bad at his job like a month or two later and their facebook page switched to submit-your-resumes to work here, then a new guy and closed-for-training-sessions. Feelsgoodman.

>>96020110
Right but you're arguing pressure and at the extreme side and not realizing that this is keeping stuff out of the suit. And also let's not forget it's not promethium it's keeping out as it's been replaced by the Deathguard's alchemicals.

>>96020074
Inexorable only works if all models in the unit have Inexorable, so if you babysit an artificer centurion/praetor with a terminator unit they lose Inexorable

>>96020165
>Deathguard's alchemicals
Which would absolutely fuck up even marines in power armor. You don't need to defeat the ceramite, you need to defeat the neck, elbow, leg joint seals etc with a liquid form based weapon. The entire argument started with
>this suit can survive [hazardous environment] , therefore it can survive [weaponized form of hazardous environment] without impunity
Everyone is getting lost in parallel examples of how something can resist X but cannot necessarily resist extreme versions of X or similar factors such as X or Y.

>>96020134
Destroyers had the hardened armour rule in HH1

>>96020134
>It's specifically mentioned as being an augmented filter apparatus.
So what? Those were common among DG due to their preferred tactics. Not necessarily a sign of being a destroyer

>>96020227
>Those were common among DG due to their preferred tactics.
That was literally what I was saying. Why wouldn't DG chemical warfare dudes be using those helmets over the void hardened ones?

>>96020203
That doesn't really matter if they aren't dousing themselves in their own weapon. If the void hardened suit can keep out any ambient chemicals in the air which the void hardened likely can do if they're fielding it, then it's fine. Of course you're going to wear the seals away eventually but that would be the case with any specialized enviromentally sealed armor.

>>96020261
It could literally just be the case of logistics and they're using what they can get on hand.

>>96019880
One other advantage of a carriage based self-loading system is that it can be controlled and fired from a distance.
If you're doing direct fire like every other Rapier based gun this is very useful for protecting the crew.
Real life you have this with ATGMs such as Stugna-P and new variants of Kornet and Spike.
Still handy for indirect if you expect counterbattery to arrive before you relocate, and the carriage being self propelled allows to crew to move it without exposing themselves.
They're currently working on making unmanned versions of self propelled guns for that reason. Example, the US is working on an unmanned M109.

Now that I've assembled everything minus the backpack, I think the anon who missed the Goremonger lucked out. The pose is awkward and I have to convert/chop off both hands to make a legal loadout. Small nu-mortal proportions also make him mostly incompatible with marine bits.

>>96019942
MKV was retconned to be an evolution of an existing Alpha Legion long-term ops armour designed for easy field repair(as far as I can tell purely to explain away the cover of the Legion novel).

>>96020074
Some consuls can't take terminator armour

>>96020536
That doesn't really answer his question anon.

>>96020079
This is the winner

>>96020536
most can, and sometimes it makes them worse (Moritat)

>>96020554
Moritats can't.

>>96020554
Which ones get worse? Wouldn't really know which of the consul options actively suffers from being in tartaros terminator armour.

>>96020587
NTA, but for any melee-focused one, you lose the pistol/2 weapon option (except for Champion, which can cheese it via the free Paragon Blade)

>>96020604
Oh yeah that's true. That's one of the reasons I won't miss the +1 attack for 2 CCW rule. Pistols should stand on their own merit, rather than be a +1 attack trinket.

>>96020587
>>96020604
Esoterists/Librarians can replace the combi with a force weapon.

>>96020610
the problem is they don't in any way stand on their merit in HH3. A pistol is simply worse in 3 than in 2. A pistol in 2 was a strong melee tool. A pistol in 3 is no melee buff and you can't ever shoot it because if you kill any enemy during volley fire it can add inches to your charge and your entire unit fails to get into melee then dies horribly.

>>96020604
I miss when 1.0 SW Priests retained their bolt pistol when taking TDA. There's even precedence to it, as Njal Stormcaller in terminator armour had a bolt pistol.

>>96020673
>even in death, he's still inside of me

Terminator HQs should get access to plasma blasters, autocannons, and heavy flamers. Terminator armistos should be legal

>>96020673
I think it's a good thing when SW don't get preferential treatment. Those degenerate SWfags should know their place.

>>96020697
HQs in general should have access to all wargear. Why doesn't the praetor have access to meltaguns but mooks on TSS can take as many as they want?
It's dumb

>>96020697
>terminator moritat

>>96020715
>terminator moritat with 2 plasma blasters like dual soubled-barreled shotguns

>>96020697
>plasma blasters
They do
>erm I obviously meant plas-
I don't care, seethe

>>96020733
>They do
What terminator HQ can have plasma blasters?

>>96020697
HQ should focus on directing the troops around them, not be completely absorbed by operating heavy and/or complicated weaponry.

>>96020742
>He doesn't know

>>96020748
Hogwash. That doesn't apply to the weapons I mentioned as those are not complicated.

>>96020742
None
Anon is being dumb

>>96020754
Well, show me your self built plasma blaster then, since it isn't a complicated weapon and al.

>>96020765
>the psykers, the daemons, and me

>>96020765
Hehe

>>96020798
Bro it's 2 fukken pieces

>>96020798
Ultramarines 1st Company captain Saul Invictus had a plasma blaster.

>glue two plasmaguns together
>they become an assault weapon
The ways of the mechanicum are mysterious

>>96020884
>glue two bolters together
>they become an assault weapon

>>96020884
>>96020900
>glue two meltas together
>they become a heavy weapon

>>96020884
>>96020900
>>96020915
No no no you're not gluing the guns together to make those, you're cutting those in half to make the other guns

>>96020834
Those are just two plasma pistols glued together.

>>96021125
To the layman, perhaps. Way to out yourself, loser.

>>96020587
Siege Breaker - you just stick them in a HSS anyway

>>96021428
>Not enjoying a point blank cataphractii siege breaker punching holes in transports and dropping phosphex bombs inside
You are lame

>>96021481
I run Exodus in every free HQ slot

>>96021560
I was right.

>>96020815

>"Well, I guess they call 3.0 the Medium Edition."
>"The Medium Edition?"
>"Well sure isn't Rare or Well Done!"
>"DOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHO!"

>>96018936
>>96019046
Where are these pictures from?

>>96021688
Index Astartes.

>>96020645
>you can't ever shoot it because if you kill any enemy during volley fire it can add inches to your charge and your entire unit fails to get into melee
Not every charge needs to roll the full 12" bro. Though it would be nice indeed if idk you could replace one of your melee attacks for shooting your pistol (using WS, Init = User) in combat or something idk.
Make them more than just a fashion statement.

>>96020697
Only if you allow for Artificer armour HQ to wield a Heavy Bolter, without needing to also be an Armistos or IF Castellan (would be still forbidden for many Consuls).
I'm tired that the only ranged option for an artificer officer is: Sniper rifle or Combi-.

>>96021696
>40k app
opinion discarded

>>96021560
Kaedes Nex and Exodus in random lists is oddly fluffy.

>>96021891
>Nice HQ, too bad I'm behind 31 Vigilators

>>96020645
>if you kill any enemy during volley fire it can add inches to your charge

you've still got a 90% chance of Charging 9" and a 30% chance of charging 12"

in practice if you're using your MEQ full 3" set up move you're likely to cover the full 12" of the old Charge range, and you get free shooting

the fact that shooting can result in your being unable to connect with an enemy unit is neither here nor there: it's the same in the current (and previous) system where a good Shooting phase means you don't get a Charge either because the enemy unit is dead or has run away

>>96021736
It's wahapedia dude

>>96021891
>>96021916
feels obligatory to put a nemesis bolter on every AL HQ that can take one

>>96021968
your math is absolutely fucked and you're simply wrong. Setup is now 2" for M7-9. That means you have a 0" chance to charge someone 8.1" away (2 + 1d6 maximum). Maybe you think it's 2+2d6 but it isn't, you only keep 1 dice.

>>96022068
True. But they don't quite fit on IW idk

>>96022035
Don’t argue with him, he’s a threadshitting troll.

>>96021968
3" setup move isn't anywhere close to 90% to go 9", dumbfuck.

highest 1 of 2d6 is a 6 only 30.5% of the time, that means you fail that charge 70% of the time.

>>96022131
you suck your mother's cock with that mouth?

RIDE MOTHERFUCKERS RIDE

>>96022109
An IW so obsessed with efficiency he becomes a vigilator and scars himself for every missed shot

>>96022237
this might work better for an iron hand desu. not scarification though, amputation.

were there rules for solar auxillia to ally demons in 2.0

>>96022211
>mk7
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE SAVE ME BLIGH-MAN

>>96022258
Bound Daemons allowed any non-Loyalist army to have daemon allies

>>96018741 (OP)
What's the point in a knight army taking this over an allied Mechanicum detachment? Seems like a lot of restrictions to get the keyword

>>96018741 (OP)
TQ: I have a narrative event next weekend.
Should be a good send off, with 4 games with extra little bits between.

>>96022351
No allied detachment with knights. Come on Anon it said it right there in the article.

>>96022400
Oh damn

You can't take thallax with them? That sucks

>>96022416
And no batch of secutarii at their feet to show a Legio's foot soldiers and bonded household working together.
But sure, one squad each of 4 different automata is so helpful.

>>96022419
I like that these don't seem to be mutually exclusive, so you can bring knight solar auxilia and knight automatons

Although, considering each rank shown seems to unlock a detachment, maybe there's one for Ordo Reductor stuff since this is clearly the Cybernetica one

>>96022435
>these don't seem to be mutually exclusive
That might be cool but they could just as easily put in another rule that restricts your bonus detachment or limit Lord Scion to Questoris Imperium and Preceptor to Questoris Mechanicum.
So Questoris Mendicant might get some kind of demon detachment, perhaps.

>>96022203
No, I guess that's the type of skill they teach you in your gender studies degree program. Explains why you're such a retarded faggot that you can't do even simple math.

>>96022203
loling at this

>>96022419
Noooo. They're right about releasing paleo Skitarii and you tell me they might be mutually exclusive with knights? Boooo
Why shouldn't knights get the normal allied detachment, to be honest?

>Banestrike is ammo specifically created to breach Astartes armour
I really do believe they could be better represented with a profile of [18" S4 AP3 Rapid Fire, Breaching 6+], instead of the current [S5 AP4 Br(6+)].
S5 AP4 is a heavy bolter, which makes it good against Thallax but not space marines.
Full AP3 would be better and still not that oppressive, as marines can still avoid being wounded half the time due to their toughness

How do you guys get dust off your models? Had a sicaran I assembled and put away for a year but I guess I didn’t seal it up properly since it’s just caked in dust.

>>96022843
use a big makeup brush

>>96022419
But secutarii don't work with knights. They're the titan guard, not the Knight guard.

I don’t play HH and I never will. But is 3.0 looking like a good edition to play my old 40k with? Or is it still “I spend my mana on reaction trap cards” like 2.0 is.

>>96022873
Just play 1.0 you retard

>>96022873
You mean playing 40k with HH2/3 rules? It can be done, but you'll have to homebrew a lot of rules outside of the basic marine units.

>>96022873
just stick to 10th with your cp.

>>96022873
Nah, reactions are still bullshit that ruins the game. A squad of lascannons moves 7", shoots 10 shots at 1 dmg then reacts on the same turn to shoot 10 shots at 2 dmg each counting as stationary. Literally triple damage because they were shot at - when getting suppressed should make a gun work worse.

>>96022843
compressed air or any synthetic brush that won't rip and leave fibres on your model (so no q-tips or washing and scrubbing with paper towels, that'll absolutely fuck up your models with paper stuck in the crevices - been there, done that)

>>96020765
Oh hey Skeeter. Glad to see at least one of the Muppets survived into the 30k's.

>>96022843
varnish, wash

>>96022966
>suppressed should make a gun work worse
But it does, you have to fire snap shots when you're suppressed. Also if you're so worried about the lasHSS reaction boogy man next edition look at what weapons or abilities cause stun.

>>96022873
That doesn't make any sense. When you buy the HH3.0 rulebook to play 40k you are actually playing HH but with a whole range of proxies.

And HH aims at much bigger units and games. 40k had 1500pts, HH is more around 3kpts. Like a tactical squad of 10 was split into 2x5 squads, each one could have a special or heavy weapon. In HH you rather play 2x10 tacticals and a special weapon squad of 5-10 and a heavy weapon squad of 5-10.
HH also includes no Xenos. And the fan rules made for HH1.0 also imply you play big armies.

Just play old 40k with your old 40k models. HH1.0 is 6th/7th edition anyways. Or play One Page Rules, they are free and all old and modern models are usable.

>>96022986
Wrong. The bullshit status has to be inflicted by some specific gun to make snapshots, which is not how guns work. "Oh we're getting shot at by krak missiles, it's okay we're allowed to shoot normally as long as 1 sniper rifle hasn't killed somebody yet"
I really don't know what's with GW writers and being massive retards who haven't written a good ruleset even once in 50 years.

>>96019046
wtf is a osmotic gill and what does it do? filter up vomit?

>>96022753
>Full AP3 would be better and still not that oppressive,
>on bolters
0/10 bait

>>96022753
Pls give AL banestrike heavy bolter again pls

What was the small game of horus heresy called in 1.0? Tactical strike?

>>96023085
Victory or death?

>>96023002
>which is not how guns work
no, but it's how space magic works.

>>96023051
guess it lets stink out and not in, because people actually really vomit after hours in a tight space suit

>>96023085
Zone Mortalis? It was for 500pts games (not that anybody on Yt plays that size)

>>96023116
>because people actually really vomit after hours in a tight space suit
They do? How come?

Wich legion colors do the saturnine termies look best in?

>>96023157
The ones YOU paint them in, of course!

>>96023157
Correct answer is Iron Warriors.

>>96023051
Probably enables/improves breathing in liquid.

>>96023181
I've always wondered what the Iron Warriors' fascination with hazard stripes are. Was it just originally to break up the monochrome?

>>96023188
It's an esoteric Legion meme.

>>96021695
Which one? There isn't one about power armour, and that green head doesn't seem to be from the Death Guard one.

>>96023130
because they stink and the stink gathers up. Same reason a room needs some fresh air once in a while.

>>96023157
use one of the blackest of black paint, that should hide most of that hideous model.

>>96023193
Honestly putting hazard warnings in something clearly intended to harm is pretty funny

>>96023193
rather like: look at me, color of the Imperial Fists, I am a builder, lmao.

>>96023188
To break up the monochrome and add to their industrial look

>>96023226
That's how I always saw it yeah.

>>96023215
WD249. Index Astartes - Emperor's Shield: Space Marine Chapters of the Armageddon War.

>>96023265
Oh nice, top result on Google and everything.

Neat.

>>96023193
It was so funny when this came out and tanked the headcanon of every irontard who'd said the stripes were heraldic patterns inherited from Terran cargo cultists. For years they'd been sharing that baseless claim as if it was legit. Then 2.0 rolls out and says "Nope, the stripes are clown makeup." It was a riot.

>>96023188
It's a heraldic motif of Lochos (and later of unified Olympia). That's why you shouldn't use it on allied/auxiliary units, only on legionary forces.

>>96023276
Nobody ever said it was Terran, >>96023302 is the actual explanation. The >>96023193 snippet is written as a clueless outsider's speculation.

Would the Death Guard use Disintegrator weapons? I know everyone did, but I feel that it sort of goes against their putrid ethos.

>>96023308
What's the source for that, then?
Gotta back it up somehow.

>>96018905
Ironclad looks fine imo. The problem with the venerable dread is that it looks too fancy. Boxboughts are suppossed to be the lower quality dread option. It's a bit weird to have them coverd in so much detail. Going for the plainer option would be beeter imo

>>96023326
if Sallies do then I don't see why not given they are supposedly devoted to flame being a clean death.

>>96023326
The Death Guard were all about getting shit done, which is what set them on the path to using chemical and rad weapons since they were mostly effective despite the bad look it gave them. Disintegrators would 100% be in-line for them to use, since it's just another useful tool in their eyes that everyone is too cagey about using. In their eyes, the ends always justifies the means, no matter what

>>96023302
Is there any explanation to all the other uses of yellow and black stripes? It has fallen somewhat from fashion in later editions, but in earlier ones they got around.

>>96023355
Says right there they're veteran markings

>>96023355
Because they looked cool on the tabletop

>>96016141
Internal balance is not looking great this edition, is it?
You'd think adding a damage characteristic would help with that but it looks like they are still retarded on top of having a hateboner for plasma
The disintegrator profile wasn't looking great either
Why would you put overload(2) on a gun that only gets ap2 a third of the time when you are making guns that have good ap all the time? That's just dumb
And if the dread is anything to go by the points are not gonna be balancing that at all...
I'm fully expecting multimeltas to be Heavy(FP) at this point

>>96023326
Sure, why not. They aren't associated with any legion cuz they were super complex and scarce weapons that only specialist would carry but forget that. There's a new sprue to sell. Now everyone used disintegrators all the time on all units.
DG is as good as any other legion to smap the shit out of them

>>96023085
Victory or venegance.

>>96023186
Like a water filtration system then

>>96023326
Yes I imagine they were used during the rangdan furrycide

>>96023370
>I'm fully expecting multimeltas to be Heavy(FP) at this point
No, no. MM are going to be Ordnance(R)
Just to make sure that every other heavy weapon is a worse option

>>96023366
In that instance (provided it's not referring to anything else), but there's plenty of other use cases.

>>96023391
Yes that's it thanks!

>>96016141
You also lose barrage, which is potentially really big with the new cover rules. But yes, its a more powerful and subsequently expensive weapon.

>>96023410
>No, no. MM are going to be Ordnance(R)
>48" MM
>24" Melta range
Lascannons eat your heart out

pretty sure its guaranteed to be satirnine for next week because GW stores already have a copy

>>96023723
Preview will be today, preorder will be next week for a release on the 26th

>>96023370
Could be worse, like a weapon having Brutal 2 for only +5 points

>>96023723
Leak libers

>>96023801
they only have the box for display purposes

>>96023810
Gay

>>96022986
>weapons or abilities cause stun.
Tested at the end of the phase, so that reaction doesn't care. Shooting back as if stationary is absolutely going to be commonly house ruled as having moved. Even then that is really to make vehicles less shit.

>>96023992
What about return fire being decided after casualties? Would actually be a consideration and still risk for active player.

>>96023992
It's kinda strange that Return Fire is untouched, whilst things like Dreadnoughts have been nerfed into oblivion in 3.0

>>96024038
Even interceptor is snap shots. Though I worry augury scanners will change that. Return fire should be snap shots, counting as moved since marines snap on 5s now.

>>96023480
Oldhammer didn't have fully established fluff for its markings and heraldry. I think all we know is campaign/honour badges, rank insignia and kill markings, but not what the hazard stripes or those red and white stripes on tanks mean (OOC one just contrasts with most things and the other is directly lifted from irl bong military's vehicle livery, but there's no in-universe explanation).

Did anyone ever make a Kill Team but for Horus Heresy?

>>96024129
Yes, the Panoptica crew made a series of game modes for smaller games, one is kill team style individual units.

>>96023992
>make vehicles less shit.
Im so worried that 30k will turn into 40k the second they introduced the damage characteristic; high volume D2 weapons that fish for glances will do more to incapacitate vehicles than AT until its actually dead while being great at killing W2 infantry.

>>96024129
https://ossifiedsite.wordpress.com/

Just realized it's been updated for KT24 too

>>96024097
>those red and white stripes on tanks
Unit/army identifications in the heat of battle.

>>96024146
I try to avoid panoptica stuff their discord mods are nuts
>>96024157
Cool cool

>>96024146
The only D2 weapon we've seen so far is stationary lascannons, the opposite of volume of fire. It doesn't look like 3.0 will have excessive damage values on even infantry weapons like 40k does.

>>96024177
>pic
Oh, so that's where all the retarded tank designs in warhammer come from.

So pre orders next week right?

>>96024236
that would be the usual rhythm

I did my knights reactor. Too be sealed away forever barely visible beneath the grill.

>>96024403
And khopaka's upper torso is finished except for the free hand on the black panel I still need to come up with.

>>96024216
The risk of trivializing via glances still exists from high volume. Not even cover can save them too.

>>96024216
List of D1+ weapons we know of
>Meltaguns (3)
>Stationary Lascannons (2)
>Power Fists (2)
>Disintegrators and Heavy Disintegrators (2)
>Saturnine Fists (3)
>Disintegration Cannons (3)
>Heavy Plasma Bonbard (2)
>Inversion Beamer (2/3)
>Graviton Pulverizer (3/4)
>Lightning Cannon (2)
>Battle Cannon (2)
>Atrapos Lascutter (6/12)

>>96020915
Purely from a aesthetic point I don't understand why they couldn't have done something like this with the regular heavy weapons wielders. Like, have one arm that is cranked with more servos and shit and not having to hold one of the handles at the wierd angle you normally see them do like in pic related.

>>96024447
Oh right I forgot
>Khan's Dao (2)
>Sigismund's Black Sword (1/2)
>Saturnine Praetor War Axe (2)
>Saturnine Praetor Concussion Hammer (3/4)

>>96024458
GW needs to fire that artist. Fucking pin-heads.

>>96024224
Yeah, Imperial Tanks have always been lifted directly from early European tank design.

>>96024447
>>Lightning Cannon (2)
isn't it damage 2/3

>>96024416
It will take 8 glancing hits to destroy a predator, exception for having insane luck on the vehicle damage roll meaning roll the same result 5 times in a row That's a lot better than the current 3 glancing hits needed.
And sure, status effects do cripple a tank. But Battlesmith happens in the movement phase now, so anybody bringing a forge lord will just remove those status effects from their important vehicles before the shooting phase and continue blasting at full effect.

>>96024224
How has this escaped you?

>>96024177
>pic
hey I know where this tank is

>>96024458
Primaris is universially shit so

>>96024129
1.0 had it's own victory is venegance mode which is essentially killteam.

>>96024458
>Primaris
Who cares about them.

>>96024640
>>96024665

You shit heels, it has nothing to do with the primaris, just the fucked up way of holding a heavy weapon.

>>96024702
Use the old devastator kit if that's the aesthetic you prefer

>>96024146
>>96024146
>high volume D2 weapons
That's not a thing that we've seen so far. And fishing for glances is dumb. If you can only glance a vehicle you need 6 hits, almost 10 shots just to cause one statis effect on it, which it can repair anyways. And vehicles can now shootback so you are not going to get to do that for several truns now. Shooting snapshots doesn't make you as useless as last edition either

>>96024702
Meanwhile, in real life...

>>96024814
That status could be immobile on a land raiders or snap shots ona Kratos. Repairing on what, a 6+? Not great. Only land raiders will have good return fire because their main weapons are sponsons. Kratos won't get the main gun.

>>96024846
That's them using a carry handle, which is not it's intended primary purpose. Marine suppressors, the jump auto cannon guys, have a side mounted shooting handle for bracing. That's a better example.

>>96024886
>YOU'RE USING THE STC WRONG
Shut up, techpriest. Make like a white woman and fuck your dogma.

>>96023057
>>on bolters
On Seeker and Headhunter bolters, yes.

>>96024886
>a side mounted shooting handle for bracing. That's a better example.
So much better nobody in real life really does it. Think the Bren's handle locks in a way it can serve as a side grip. It's not a very good way to carry a weapon. All the weight is off-set, so it's not a very convenient or comfortable way to use such a the weapon on purpose.

>>96024984
Ok John Wick, nobody actually wields heavy machine guns standing up in real life. We're not talking about small arms where normal vertical and angled grips are better. We're talking about super soldiers wielding heavy weapons. The original MKIII heavy bolters were a good example of a top grip because it was in line with the back grip. This primaris bullshit with a top angled grip way above where an optic would go is atrocious.

>>96023186
Osmotic gills would also let the user breathe in atmospheres that have oxygen but mixed with noxious gasses too; filter those out.
Like Pandora, which has useable O2 but also carbon monoxide and hydrogen sulfide

>>96023346
>Disintegrators would 100% be in-line for them to use
No. Death Guard may only use poison and Fleshbane weapons with SHIT AP.
Anything with good AP like Phosphex, Disintegrators and (formerly) Plasma gotta go to the Dark Angels, the better than you legion. May their Greatswords gain Reaping blow as well!

>>96024224
Technically that is where all tank designs come from.

>>96023308
I liked the headcanon that said they saw danger markings on machinery and thought to apply them to themselves, as to be denoted "dangerous" too. It's cute

>>96023793
What is the profile for thunder hammers? D2 + critical strike or something? That'd be mild enough to be bought for +5 pts, I hope

They're rolling out everything all at once.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/zojna4pr/sunday-preview-the-horus-heresy-begins-with-saturnine/

>>96023069
No. Only SoH get that.

>>96024591
I heard Guard tanks are WW2 designs, but space marine ones are Cold war era

>>96025011
>nobody actually wields heavy machine guns standing up in real life
Various militaries through history have trained soldiers to fire machine guns on the move when necessary.
>We're talking about super soldiers wielding heavy weapons.
Even tank weapons tend to be balanced.
>The original MKIII heavy bolters were a good example of a top grip because it was in line with the back grip. This primaris bullshit with a top angled grip way above where an optic would go is atrocious.
Wait, you're shitting on top mounted grips while also praising top mounted grips? And what good is a scope on your heavy bolter when you're hip firing it anyway. Bolters already have built in scopes in the lug above the barrel, hooked to the marine's visor.

>>96025100
Huh, weird, mk2's coming out immediately? That'll tamper down ebay sellers trying to sell 10 for 80 bucks at least LOL

>>96025102
Guard has plenty of Cold War era designs while Marines also have WW1 designs in stuff like (MkI and Proteus) Land Raiders.

>>96024872
SELF repairing on a 6+
...but crew stunned and shaken lasted only a turn and now it's there until it gets repaired, so yeah they just made Techmarines necessary. Gotta move those underselling techmarine minis, anon.
>No we cannot make techmarines grant bonuses like fortifying cover or blessing healthy vehicles
>We must make vehicle damage more annoying, so techmarines are necessary, you hear me? Necessary!

>>96025117
>Huh, weird, mk2's coming out immediately?
MkVIs went up like a week after 2.0 launched and mkiiis went up at the same time as their box. Even if the didn't, its a permanent starter box and you can't scalp that

>>96025124
I like the lil rocket there, but what guard tank is that meant to resemble?

>>96025129
>wanting techmarines to buff instead of repair
Nice job exposing yourself as a 40K fag

>>96025142
Tank Destroyer is the only one with such a flat profile.

>>96025142
NTA, but looks like a Chimera?

>>96025100
JAMES I WANT TO SEE THE FACTION DETACHMENTS JAMES

I thought the reason 30k heavy weapons have that bolter-like handle is so you can use regular bolter-wielding marines and swap their guns. That it is a compatibility thing.
Same for other heavy weapons having a handle above for a chainsaw grip instead of down like normal: most marine left hands would fit a handle up there, and not a handle below the gun

>>96025154
Chimera's got a flatter front. Still angled but not that much

>>96025145
How dare I look at what works in other editions and envy them? Imma self decimate brb

>>96025115
>Various militaries through history have trained soldiers to fire machine guns on the move when necessary.
Do any today? Military used to line up and shoot each on hills.
>Even tank weapons tend to be balanced.
... on a tank
>Wait, you're shitting on top mounted grips while also praising top mounted grips? And what good is a scope on your heavy bolter when you're hip firing it anyway. Bolters already have built in scopes in the lug above the barrel, hooked to the marine's visor.
kek

>>96025155
They will probably get leaked in like a week, no need to worry

As the squad leader typically is seen holding a melee weapon and/or pointing, they're most often depicted using a pistol of some kind for long range combat while the rest of his squad uses the bigger guns. In a squad of Lascannon using lads, wouldn't it be nice and thematic to give him a big and bulky laspistol of some kind?

Can't be arsed to tag everyone, but I did see something amusing during my military service a dog's age ago. One of the men in our rival platoon was seen not only holding a heavy machine gun aloft (it's supposed to be mounted or placed on the ground) but also aiming it by ironsights and firing it with decent aim. Dude was a real-life Space Marine, we joked.

>>96025155
We got 10 weekdays of posting to get through. Im sure we will see some, if not all, legions.

>>96025192
Embargoes for youtubers lift in a week when the preorders go up so it will probably get leaked a bit before that

>>96025142
Both are even amphibious.

Are there any leaks of the TS rules?

>>96025223
Feels like a cross between a Bradley and BMP-1.

>>96025230
Zero leaks of anything outside core book, and it is light on rules outside core gameplay.

Best I got are SN guys talking about "wouldnt it be nice if termis were T5? Maybe in the new edition. hehheh." in a recent batrep.

>>96025246
BMP has 3 firing points on both sides of the passenger compartment, Bradley has dedicated weapons for its firing ports (on the rear door).

>>96022843
Just did that for an ebay rescue. I scrubbed the whole thing with soapy water and an old toothbrush. Then rinsed the whole thing under the sink and left to dry for a couple hours

>>96022881
1.0 is already 40k dummy, its literally 6th/7th ed.
>>96022893
yeah thats what I meant. The sneak peaks on warcom look like there are lots of really cool new core mechanics.
>>96022907
No u
>>96022966
Lame, was hopeing reactions were just done away with for 2nd ed overwatch.
>>96022999
Hmm the big armies thing is not something I had thought of, thanks for mentioning it. Yes I know I can play old editions with old models but I was excited about the new mechanics I was reading about, it seems there is lots of spirit behind the design team, hh2.0 feels like an extension of midhammer to me.

>>96023167
Yikes

>>96025230
No, but I foresee disappointment if the TS psychic table is as barebones as every other one (probably one gun-but-magic, one melee-weapon-magic and a passive buff and one utility thing)

>>96025179
>Do any today
Yes, because the point is to provide suppressing fire, rather than a good KDR.

>>96025774
Feels like they make them so boring on purpose.

>>96025194
That's a retarded idea. Laspistol don't scratch a thing. The only people using lasgun and laspistol are dirt cheap fodder in the billions who can afford to be sacrificed. Any space marine ever is too elite and expensive to ever wield a laspistol. Just the glands inside of a space marine are worth more than their weight in tritium.

A space marine has super-muscles and would always carry a more substantial and powerful weapon. Your dumb idea is like taking a battle tank and replacing its main cannon with one basic trooper's bolt action rifle. No tank or space marine would ever be wasted by giving them a guardsman's toys.

>>96025609
1.0 was 7e rulebook rewritten for 40k after 8e was released and they didn't make the rulebook anymore. Effectively making HH its own game with its own rulebook. Prior to that, HH used 6e and 7e rulebooks.

>>96025832
oh god, they've made even the boomer writers wear shitty flannel patterns. What is it with the british and wanting to wear a scottsman's skirt on their chest?

>>96025194
You mean like a blast pistol?

>>96025817
On the point of suppressing fire.
Rhinos and other tanks should be allowed to take rotor cannons as pintle mounted weapons, or atleast have specific rhino patterns with rotor cannons.

>>96025831
Just give them blastpistols, they're S6 las pistols.

>>96025831
>The only people using lasgun and laspistol are dirt cheap fodder in the billions who can afford to be sacrificed.
Like Solar Auxilia, the dudes who are second only to Space Marines?

>>96025100
>map at the same time as the box sets

Fuck you gw the website is going to run like shit. I do appreciate they've not forgotten to finish them though

>>96025117
>That'll tamper down ebay sellers
Good. All scalpers should hang.

I really hope some based community members will fix the dogshit AI rules writing, I think the writing will ruin this edition if they don't fix it somehow.

>>96025917
They use lasrifles.

>>96025976
Or maybe people should stop being illiterate.

If barely legible written rules would prohibit people from playing warhammer, GW would have gone bankrupt decades ago.

>>96025990
So do Cadians.

>>96025860
Didn't know those existed, thanks for the tip m8

>96026055
Shitty bait, 3/10
Won't even give you a pity (you) desperate loser.

>>96025976
As soon as "damage mitigation roles" entered the chat you knew they had gone off the deep end. Just call it a fucking feel no pain save jesus.
>"ranged hit test" instead of "rolling to hit"
holy fuck

>>96026271
If you can't handle differing opinions you're in the wrong place you insecure cunt

>>96025976
it's not even AI, it's like they had the legal department write the rules.

>>96026352
Damage mitigation is a thing right now, it’s just a catch all unless you think Instant Death should ignore Shrouded.

>>96026416
It should. You really telling me you can dodge a Disintegration beam? Make instant death mean instant death goddamnit. Fuck I hate damage characteristics

>>96026427
The abstraction isnt Neo from the Matrix dodging bullets, its ducking and seeking what cover you can get, diving prone, etc. It can be part luck that you twisted or moved just right that the shot missed you.

>>96026389
Nah, it's almost certainly gone through a few AI passes.

>>96026427
>You really telling me you can dodge a Disintegration beam?
Yeah, because not everyone has perfect aim. Many invulnerable saves aren't representative of power shields or armor toughness either.

>>96026464
>Grok, faggot-proof the following text:

>>96026389
I read legislation for a living, this ain't it. The 3.0 book is so verbose it makes Regulation Z look succinct. It feels like the prompt was "Write the following rules in a water-tight way that can't be interpreted in any other way"

>>96026519
Given the audience, smart move

>>96026494
>asking the lefty infested ai bot to do anything
ISHYGDDT

>>96026416
Its just the lowest effort pedantic verbiage that erks me. Also the separation of cover saves and "smoke" is idiotic. Same thing with force fields.

Instant death should not ignore anything. It should be the result of suffering an unsaved wound with the special rule "instant death" just like its been for 20 years. (that said I cant find the leak for it so I'm interpreting from what you said)

>>96022753
The thing that makes it good (or rather better) vs space marines is the breaching(6+).
Banestrike rounds arent superweapons, theyre not some magical ammo which just melts marines like butter (or the legions that had them would have frankly done better). Its a more expensive and difficult to produce ammo variant that is more powerful than normal rounds and better vs armor with some drawbacks.

Ap3 would make the mechanical impact a lot more "immediate", but it sort of defeats the identity of bolters or just "conventional ammo weapons" at that point I feel. Bolt and auto weapons dont tend towards good AP, a powerful variant should have breaching or something instead.

>>96024968
Seeker bolters dont need it, s4 ap3 is functionally the same if not worse than s5 breaching 4+ or whatever it is they have.

>>96026389
Somebody thought the MtG comprehensive rules were a good idea to copy while forgetting that nobody learns to play using the comprehensive rules, and WotC has to maintain a whole infrastructure devoted to training and certifying people as rules judges in said comprehensive rules.

>>96026494
I don't think you understand just how slow at typing boomers are. My father thinks he'll write his memoirs (he's never actually done anything) and despite having had a job at IBM I watched him try to type on the computer, it was 5 words per minute instead of 120+. And despite having 'been a computer person' he did something stupid and can't even login his own computer. So he "writes" by talking to some shitty AI phone app on the wall, long rambling mumbling things, with probably some stage of alzheimer's disease, thinking he's "writing the best book ever written" (his literal words)

That is what I see when I see horus heresy 3.0 rulebook. It was voice-dictated by some 50-60s bald british dumbfuck trying to create a new edition of warhammer on the fly because it needs to be different enough to justify forcing people to buy $300 of worthless paper books in the next 5 years. If the writer had been sitting down, with a PC, they would have just copy-pasted the wordings from 2.0 for 99% of the book where there was nothing wrong with it. Instead, everything is entirely changed for no reason to be verbose and rambling retardation. That tells me it was done by speaking to an AI out loud in-between bouts of watching CNN.

>>96026427
>. You really telling me you can dodge a Disintegration beam?
Yes? Why couldnt you? You can dodge lascannons and meltaguns and rockets but this is what takes you out of it? Its a beam, it can be dodged. The things you cant dodge (or well couldnt) are things that hit such a wide area that you cant avoid them, things that ignore cover.

Hell, if you want some real bullshit assassins have their invuln saves representing their dodging, they can literally juke dangerous terrain and ordnance bombardment.

>>96026519
That wasnt the prompt, that was the assignment. Its a bunch of people who arent lawyers and dont know how law works trying to write airtight legal documentation.

>>96026667
>Its a beam, it can be dodged.

jesus christ the dumb is strong with this one

how fast do you have to be traveling to dodge a lascannon beam anon? if its moving at the speed of light you have to see it faster than the speed of light, take a minimum of 0.18 sections to react and generate enough movement in your body to move it faster than the speed of light - several times faster now because all the delays to your reaction - to get out of the way

can you name me a person who's done that

>>96026491
how is that dodging? that's just bad aim, targets have nothing to do with that

>>96026778
>how fast do you have to be traveling to dodge a lascannon beam anon?
Idk, enough that I can do it as a reaction. Gives me a 5++.

>can you name me a person who's done that
My tactical squad, when I used the reaction.

>>96026778
The person aiming the lascannon doesn't have light speed reactions. If you dodge right before the trigger is pulled, the beam will still go towards the point you just were rather than follow you.

>>96026571
I don't think shrouded is smoke, especially since it's what you get when you evade. I read it as Cover is when something else takes the hit, Feel no Pain is when you take the hit and tank it, and Shrouded is when you dodge the hit (So, should really come before even to-hit, but then we do wound before armour, so eh.)

>>96026778
You aren't moving faster than the beam, you are moving faster than the gunner's arms.

Prredictions for the two new Saturnine term units they've mentioned are coming in the new journal tactica booklet supplement thing about the dropsite massacre?
My prediction is that they are specific to IWs and Sallies.

>>96027045
I predict at least a command squad. Maybe a variant with a 3rd gun on the back (the cylinder on the back looks like the perfect spot to mount such things) or close combat weapons.

>>96027045
Blood angel jumppack saturnine configuration.
Special rule allows them to goomba stomp traitor scum.

>>96027045
I'm predicting they don't come in that book at all.
If I had to predict it, I'd say the first journal has... some sort of... deep-strike adjacent consul... maybe a weird fire support squad... and perhaps a tank? No, artillery.

Man the dreadnought looks pretty cool but the big shoulders termies look fucking awful, I hate having them on the cover of the army books.

>>96027133
Yes, that's correct.

>>96027133
No one is holding a gun to your head telling you to buy the new terminators. Their rules don't even look good at all.
Just wait until the dreadnought is sold separately, shouldn't take too long.

>>96027127
we have the literal TOC

>>96026812
Smoke is one of the examples used in the shrouded rules which is why I referenced it. You say dodge/jink type stuff also plugs into the shrouded rules?
>cover saves
I always read this as a bit of both. In fact in call in older rulesbooks this is specifically called out in cases of intervening models which granted cover saves at the time.
>This does not mean that intervening models literally stop the shots, but rather that they obscure the sight of the firers or otherwise spoil their aim
I think other editions had descriptors detailing how cover more of serves to hide fire than it does to block shots because in the 41st millennium weapons are so powerful, or something like that.

All this to say I still fucking hate the verbiage "damage mitigation roll".

>>96027172
>hyperios missile tank
Is that the fucking Whirlwind they showed?

>>96027172
That's the joke.

Speaking of cover, did anon post cover rules from the leaks?

2.0 weakened cover a lot compared to 1.0, so curious if it's stayed the same where most cover is quite weak.

>>96027172
Whoosh

>>96027172
So why was I the only one guessing right?

>>96027045
Either Sally specific or a Command Squad

>>96027195
4+ cover saves are back, but getting them and still being able to shoot out might be tricky

>>96027424
Oh wow, terrain does block titanic and flyers. Aircraft might not suck considering the intercept is checked on your table edge before it moves.

>>96027438
Yes, and almost everything blocks LOS too from the looks of it. Barrage might actually be the only thing still allowing weapons to shoot even halfway across the board.

>>96027424
oh fuck, I memory holed this page.

Yeah so RAW only area terrain provides cover now?

So a wall/barricade/etc now just do nothing.

Heavy area terrain just makes you invisible.

Vehicles cannot pass through terrain due to wacky wording as well.

Jesus fuck, why GW?

>>96027458
>So a wall/barricade/etc now just do nothing.
They block LOS. There wouldn't be a point to those providing a cover save, because units just straight up are not allowed to shoot over/through them.

>>96027458
Also, the terrain rules only mention moving into terrain, entering terrain, and moving within terrain. That one line for vehicles is about moving through terrain. RAI it's pretty clear the latter is suppose to mean a vehicle cannot move straight through a wall like it was not there for example, but it still allowed to move over a terrain feature it can fit on.

>>96027474
Some barricades, etc are only chest high, or have holes. Theyre floating bits.

I remember back in the day when this came out and every single army made a little box with the quad autocannon in it. It was so cute.

How are knights looking? Can they react? Split fire?

>>96027458
You can just define a crater/barricade as area terrain.

>>96027491
Yeah obviously RAI they can go through terrain, but people keep trying to argue the rulebook is actually well written legalese to prevent any unclear wording/WAAC interpretation faggotry, when it just terrible fucking rules issues like this.

>>96027474
I don't mean big walls, I mean like aegis barricade height walls. Just your head could be poking out and you get no cover save.

>>96027653
You only get cover if you are IN area terrain, not behind it.

So if you have a very wide barricade, than the guy standing on top of it could conceivably get cover, while the rest of his squad hiding behind it don't.

>>96027665
Is anyone arguing it's well written legalese? I thought the consensus is that it's aiming to be well written legalese and land somewhere between awfully written and pant-shittingly bad.

>>96027665
Anon, you're still thinking in TLOS. That isn't a thing in 3.0. If the wall is between two models, it blocks LOS. Period.

>>96027703
Not all walls are 3" deep.

>>96027665
>You only get cover if you are IN area terrain, not behind it.
Just define an area round it or behind it. Put the barricade in a base, for example.

>>96027665
>when it just terrible fucking rules issues like this.
Bro the rules literally say they are decoupled from the models so you choose what rules apply to your terrain. There's no issue.

>>96027719
Walls aren't medium area terrain. Only medium area terrain has to be at least 3" deep. Heavy area terrain and everything that isn't area terrain straight up blocks LOS.

>>96027773
>Walls aren't medium area terrain
Says who? The text clearly says they won't tell you what each type of terrain represents so you can assign it yourself.

>>96027791
Yes that's the entire fucking poi... Oh I get it, you're just a troll. Not wasting any more time here.

>>96027802
??? What's the problem? Nothing says walls can¡t give cover because you decide what terrain rules you give to walls.

>>96027718
Not all walls are area terrain. Unless you want them to be, of course.

>>96027565
they get Statuses per the WarCom article so y'know not great

>>96027921
I'm going to lose it

>>96027921
Istfg Knight Players are just Eldar players too ashamed to commit

>>96027703
what does LOS have to do with it?

You have a low wall. You can see unga hiding on the other side of the wall.

If the wall is not 'area terrain' is provides no cover save, ever.

If the wall is 'area terrain' than unga still gets no cover save because area terrain only gives cover if you're IN the terrain - i.e. standing on top of the wall.

>>96027719
This is still stinky, and I don't want all my scatter terrain on based just for one jank edition of rules - and getting cover while standing in front of a barricade is also wack.

>>96028025
The height of the wall doesn't matter. You draw a line between model A and model B. If the wall is beneath that line, it blocks LOS.

>>96028045
bruh, what are you talking about, why is LOS coming into this? a tactical rock does not block LOS because it obscured a part of their base.

>>96028067
Read pic in >>96027456 again. A model behind a wall would never have need of a cover save, because according to the new LOS rules other models can't see it, and thus cannot shoot at it, negating the need for a cover save. The physical height of the wall isn't a factor here.

>>96027975
>too ashamed to commit
Commit to what?

>>96028025
Easiest house rule ever

>>96028045
Beneath? Not above?

>>96028087
Anon... reread the section about depth. If that wall isnt 3" into that terrain, or 3" thick itself, you use true line of sight.

>>96028120
There is no true line of sight. Not all terrain is area terrain.

>>96027724
Vehicles RAW literally cannot enter any terrain ever. It just says terrain features, not any specific kind of terrain.

>>96028103
Yes i can house rule it, that doesn't change the fac the official rules are cracked in the head AI slop that still has more holes than swiss cheese.

>>96028087
>>96028137
Please explain where it says anything to actually support your argument.
There is no base to base LOS here, it just says draw a line between two models.
Your interpretation would be genuinely insane, as basically everything would block all LOS at all times.

>>96028137
There is true line of sight at all times except the paragraph in >>96028120. That is the only time you do not use TLoS; 3" medium terrain or any heavy.

>>96028158
>cracked in the head AI slop
Even non-slop rules, 2e had plenty of common house rules. 30k is never going to get the patches 40k get and we can deal with it.

>>96028158
Pretty sure they can enter difficult terrain

>>96028158
>basically everything would block all LOS at all times
It does, yes. The line of sight rules posted literally tell you to use a tape measure to draw a line between two models. If there is any obstruction, there is no LOS.

>>96028189
True line of sight does not exist in 3.0. Nowhere do the rules tell you to stoop down and peek from behind the firing model to see if it can spot any part of the target model.

>Yes the LOS rules are written too abstract for terminal autists, which is funny considering how much of the rest of the rules explains everything way too much.

>>96028158
>Vehicles RAW literally cannot enter any terrain ever
There is no rule saying vehicles cannot enter terrain. The rule only says vehicles cannot move -through- terrain. Which clearly isn't the same thing when you read the words used for models moving in terrain.

>>96028238
cannot move through 'Terrain Features'.
All terrain are terrain features, its like the first thing it says in the terrain section.

A hill is a given example of a terrain feature.

>>96028210
The vehicle rules say that vehicle models 'cannot go through other models with the vehicle type, or Terrain Features'.

But yes obviously this is just bad wording and anyone that actuall tries to play that was is a fucking huge tard, but every time someone brings up the convoluted rules wording as AI slop, someone comes out of the wood work defending it as actually just being very detailed rules to avoid confusion/ambiguity... which is quite clearly does not.

>>96028228
Anon have you ever touched a physical model?
I have a 2 marines, on either side of a barricade.
I draw a line between model A's head and model B's head.
They have LOS.

The rule says if the terrain BREAKS the line, then there is no LOS.
i.e. the wall would have to entirely obscure one model from the other.

>>96028285
I want to see you use a tape measure to draw a line between specific areas of models.

>>96028354
??
Genuinely, have you ever played a game?
You get your tape measure out, you stick it down on one dude's head to the other guy's head.
Unless they're like under a bridge or some other super dense terrain this is never a problem.

>>96019175
Erm actually most chemical weapons are aerosolized liquid and the primary way to defeat all of them is activated charcoal and bleach, most PPE not counting masks is air permeable. A suit sealed to hard vacuum is perfectly good against anything except corrosive liquid that might eat at gaskets
>t. Works in the NBC field and has worked with nerve agent, doesnt play death guard but really likes destroyers

>>96028379
What? If you put the tape measure on the heads it isn't between the heads. Come on now.

>>96028413
Ok, you're just retarded. Have fun playing games where a small rock blocks LOS to a titan because of your incredible LOS interpretation

>>96026598
>theyre not some magical ammo which just melts marines like butter
There's bolt rounds said to do that exact same thing, though
>Bolt and auto weapons dont tend towards good AP, a powerful variant should have breaching or something instead.
Scorpius used to be full AP2
Thing is, current AP4 Banestrike is as effective against artificer as it is against 2+ saves, since it mostly relies on Breaching 6. Make it AP3 (reducing its Str to 4) and you'll have something that goes through marine armour "like it's wax", but still be markedly less effective against 2+ saves, which it isn't good at
And it would be a fair exchange, since Seeker bolters replace Scorpius for Banestrike as a sidegrade: get better vs 3+ saves but lose effectiveness against 2+

>>96028427
He's new and arguing >>96027456 with malicious compliance. If there was an archway with no obscuring they would argue that a highway underpass blocks LoS.

>>96028478
Actually he's old and rejoicing that retarded nufaggots like you will no longer be able to inflict your retarded TLOS shit on us like you have been since 5th, as am I.

>>96027119
>Blood angel jumppack saturnine configuration.
Fuck. Those guys really are obsessed with flying

>>96028524
I wish non BA dreads could use the pack
it looks so damn good

>>96027424
Woah. Just what is Heavy Area Terrain that not only blocks LoS through it, but also models inside it cannot target models outside?
Like, you can't shoot through Ruins at models that aren't inside them, but models actually in them can shoot outside and be shot at.
With Heavy Area Terrain, you can't even do that.

>>96027491
>a vehicle cannot move straight through a wall like it was not there
Booo. Let me take a Dangerous Terrain test and crash through it
https://youtu.be/IhdEKY1b0tk?t=61

>>96028556
Yeah, heavy terrain just means there is an invisible forcefield at the edges that blocks all LOS in and out... Actual wait, its even more retarded.

It explicitly says models in heavy terrain cannot draw LOS to ANY models, which therefore includes other models in the terrain with you...

Just what the fuck is Heavy Area Terrain meant to represent? A giant opaque cube of jelly?

>>96028614
smouldering crater with black smoke, a solid building(even if the model isnt), geyser, Faraday box, y'know the norm

>>96028614
A bunker that has been compromised but not reduced to rubble yet? It's pretty dark inside a bunker when the lights don't work.

>>96028633
tournyfag magic box please understand anon

>>96028633
>>96028662
Why can GW not just make sane and sensible rules? Holy shit they figured this out like 20 years ago and just make random abortion versions of it every time.

What are the most and least common legions you see being played?

>>96028771
Wouldn't say GW ever "figured this out" lol. Each edition has its infamous cheese, broken rules interactions, and other shenanigans.

>>96028524
>>96028546
>BA have a bunch of unique jump pack units, including a dreadnought
>BA have a bunch of unique flame weapons, including a full flamer predator
>BA have their own special psyker dreadnoughts
>BA have two distinct genetic curses, and special apothecaries with goblets of blood
These guys need to share some of their gimmicks with the other legions.

>>96028556
>>96028771
How is it not sane? Your guys walk into jungle so dense that they can't see anything, and nobody can see them.
If you don't think any of your terrain counts as heavy area terrain then don't use those rules.

>>96028614
Yeah innit?
>>96028917
But if heavy terrain is so heavy it blocks line of sight...then how are the ones inside still getting shot at, as to claim a 4+ cover?
It 100% is not scattered blasts from fellow units outside heavy cover. Not only is that very specific, but blasts scatter less this edition.

>>96028977
>claim a 4+ cover
Beams, scatter, etc

>>96028977
Barrage still exists.

>>96028977
It is exactly because of Barrage weapons that it still gives such a heavy cover save, there's no other way to target them

>>96028885
the blessing of being one of the 3 true legions of GW.
Dark Angels has more bike / jetbike / landspeeder / aircraft models released for them than White Scars.
You already covered Blood Angels.
Then Space Wolves got special tactical squads, special scouts, special dreadnoughts, special librarians, special devastator squads with split-fire, special cavalry and mounted heroes and chariot things (again more custom speed units than White Scars)

The Ultramarines, White Scars, Raven Guard, Salamanders, Iron Hands and Imperial Fists releases-wise are just boring homeless people behind a dumpster.

>>96028994
Oooh right. That's it I guess
>>96028986
Beam is rare. I can only remember Vulkan's pistol and that Volkite Superheavy tank

Hey, what unit are you placing in that heavy cover they can't draw LoS out of? Rapier thudd guns, I suppose

>>96029012
Iron Warriors, Alpha Legion and Death Guard are also popular, but they get nowhere near that level of support.
Except the DG Contemptor. It's said to be so nice other legions get it for their conversions. Same as Reaping (X), other legions just love taking from the DG

>>96029010
You're right

>>96029032
Death Guard has an enormous range of custom models for them, more than any other traitor legion by a very wide margin. They're just in 40k. And GW assumes people can simply use them in 30k, siege Morty in the books looks exactly identical to 40k Morty and the siege books treat DG as 40k-level-corrupted.

>>96029059
>>96029059
>>96029059

>>96029032
Also, it's funny that rule-wise Dark Angel poster-boys even steal the Death Guard entire gimmick by having an entire plague company Rite of War that turns the entire battlefield into poison and focuses on destroyer squads.

>>96025246
I don't think it actually has much Bradley DNA other than having firing port weapons. I think they mostly just boxified the BMP 1.

>>96028556
Dense woods or jungle or something?