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>Thread Question:
>What's a flaw your character took that made a more compelling chronicle, while actually inconveniencing you and your party?

>>96037167 (OP)
Would the vampiric Kiss heal cripples or would they be stuck cripple for (un)life unless they find a fiend to fix them up?

>>96037553
both has happened in canon, it seems to depend on how recently you got crippled

>>96037167 (OP)
>Cassie in the OP
>Cool!
>'06
>Wait, what?

>>96037553
Think about it as if it was PM&R - the later you start, the less effective it will be, but it will always help to some degree

>guy gets ripped to shreds and then embraced
>becomes fully healed
>you get embraced with a paper cut
>it stays forever
type shit that makes you go full 'misce

>>96038138
is there a lore piece more ignored than the writers insisting that you can't heal with vicissitude?

>>96038309
Considering that I'm pretty sure even the writers gave up and put it in one of the books? Yes.
There was a rule added in 2e for changeling the dreaming that you couldn't use scene + wayfare to animate entire neighborhoods, houses included. Absolutely every player ignored that rule, to the point the writers gave up and added walking buildings to the unleashing rules in wayfare.

>>96037167 (OP)
Technically a merit, but True Faith (vampire).
Nothing more crippling than having actual standards and morals you have to follow to the detriment of all accrued political capital. It's been slowly driving his acquaintances and companions crazy (they think he's just faithfully larping lip service until a repeatingly common "oh shit he's actually serious"). The only reason he's not been fully taken advantage of yet is either the ST being a huge softie, or wanting to prolong his fall by letting him rise despite all odds (and godly combinations/rolls).

>>96037704
Who?

>>96037167 (OP)
>>What's a flaw your character took that made a more compelling chronicle, while actually inconveniencing you and your party?
Child

>child
>dark fate
>tremere

To say this had significant impact on the story is underselling it as the various odds and ends resulted in
1. An Underworld Entity of Prodigious Size being briefly summoned by the Giovanni
2. The fertilizer car bombing of said Giovanni
3. A bane-infused preserved werewolf corpse being inhabited by a methuselah
4. My character being kidnapped and almost forced to diablerize his own Sire (after which he most certainly would have been used as a ritual ingredient)
5. One of the party gaining True Faith

>>96038671
If your ST free-balling it by just guessing when you should gain/lose faith or is he using the full system from DA: Inquisitor that outlines how TF is actually supposed to work?

In Changeling the Dreaming, is there any reason for malign changelings to abduct humans like the True Fae do in Lost?

>>96039284
That's exactly what the "Enchanted" are anon. Their mortals given a hit of glamour so that changelings can bring them into the dreaming. They often to this to make them into slaves that they can harvest glamour from until their minds break.

>>96039284
Glamour, slaves, etc.. Infinite reasons really. Spriggans abduct children because it's in their nature.

>>96039284
In the Dark Ages Firstborn True Fae used to do child swapping if there was something wrong with their own kids and they didn't want to kill them or for other various reasons from just doing it for fun or doing it to keep their children safe in secrecy while the human kids swapped in were the ones in public. Also as a bonus back then the Dreaming was bold enough that it'd just make humans who interacted with True Fae as family for a long enough time and lived in the Dreaming for some time- into Fae themselves. Though both the actual Fae children, the humans that got swapped in and humans who became spouses or otherwise of Fae would become a type of Fae with a human like body and a Fae like body, with the human one hiding their magical features and also stopping them from Unleashing their most free form powerful stuff, since it is a pretty much literal human body. The Fae body would have its unnatural features, more freedom when using Fae Magic and also being able to soak lethal at last.

>>96039423
>>96039438
>>96039447
Super-helpful; thank you all so much.

>>96039249
Free-balling so far, but he hasn't gotten many chances to hit me with a conscience roll for my path either.
Still, I'll throw it his way. Got any excerpts?

Uh oh, bros! Totentanz is using animalism again.

>>96039937
The entire book is dedicated to how TF works, so excerpts really won't cut it.
The cliffs notes version is: TF in other splats is an abstraction of the Inquisitor rules, like how "Lupines" in VtM have disciplines rather than gifts like real garou.In short:
>TF has it's own morality track, virtues, and power pool, "Piety", "Faith/Wisdom/Zeal" and "Conviction"respectively
>Conviction acts a both the feul for powers and its own separate xp system for buying them. You need to bank it(store it off-character) regularly, because having too much at once is bad.
>The superior virtues stack with your path/road virtues for all purposes(meaning you could have up to 10 dice for courage rolls for example). These are used in all rolls deal with Faith powers, so you can get away with not spending any real XP on anything but classic virtues(because they cap your superior virtues).
>Just having superior virtues alone also allows you extra effects like allowing you to roll to resist mind control powers that don't normally have a resistance roll.
Finally Piety is an additional path/road you need to keep track of that represents how closely you live by the rules of your faith. If your un-banked conviction is higher than your piety, your character goes a bit insane. IIf your piety ever hits 0, you lose your TF abilities entirely.
Since your character is on a Path, you're going to have to edit some things. The TF of christianity detailed in the book only works with roads of humanity/heaven and keys off conscience/self-control/courage. You'll need to build a different faith that can key off your path's virtues instead of the normal faith/wisdom.

You are isekaied into oWoD. You have all of your current knowledge. You operate under the same metaphysical paradigms as everyone else there (you can be Embraced, can potentially Awaken, etc.). Assuming your goal is to become as powerful as possible, what do you do?

>>96040357
>Fucked up the green text
God D-*sigh* God help me.

>>96040481
This depends heavily on Edition, Variant Rules, Crossover Paradigm, and ST. It also depends on how we, as an existing creature in the universe, interact with character creation, xp etc, and how aware we are of those things. The correct answer to "most powerful possible" is always infernalist though.

>>96040481
True Faith Hunter

>>96040481
what any self-respecting mage would do?
fuck off into my own pocket dimension in the deep umbra so I can cast without penalty

>>96040750
Revised came along and decided you're now a spirit and lost your true magic because reasons(please ignore the sections on awakened spirits in the bestiaries).

>>96037167 (OP)
You know, I appreciate the fact neither Ascension or Awakening never had ‘magical wheelchairs’. And it makes sense, right? You find out reality can be shaped by your will, and you’re really just going to still be in a chair because reality said so? It really was just tasteless virtue-signaling that made no canonical sense.

Now a crippled Metis with machine guns strapped to their wheelchair is fucking awesome.

Corpus pussy

>>96040863
Canonically, even Metis who are born crippled would rather go the technofetish cybernetics route than remain crippled.

>>96037167 (OP)
>What's a flaw your character took that made a more compelling chronicle, while actually inconveniencing you and your party?

In my most fun Hunter game, one of my players decied to have a flaw of beliving in everythig but one tue thing, the thing indeed was beliveing Vampires are a thing and they are a real thing, not just some goth kids doing some weird shit.
At first it was kinda weird/funny because most of the players were showed the reality of WoD tru Vampires or being victims of one but this guy was shown and involved in Werewolf shit.

It was fun how a lot of stuff the players did just to prove that Vampires are real were looked another way by the player in a logical way.
Was funnier when in the last session of the chronicle, he does the line "Wait, are Vampires real?!" and everybody facepalms. Fun days those were.

>>96040750
How do you make yourself Awaken?

>>96040900
Even then, that’s only if they’re okay with being publicly known as the Weaver’s bitch.

>>96040939
Depends, really. Easiest would probably be the Ecstatic’s way by taking a lot of drugs or having the raunchiest sex possible. Or both. But you, it’s going to have to be the drugs.

>>96040569
Holy Based Batman!

>>96040863
Doesn’t stuff healing crippled limbs or magical prosthetics give you permanent paradox?

>>96040481
If becoming a Hunter is not enough, I would sell my soul to the Technocrats

>>96040942
I mean, if it's a choice between a little bit more social stigma on top of the social stigma being Metis, or life as a fucking cripple in a warrior culture and the extra social stigma that comes with that instead, I think the choice is obvious.

Did the Winchesters were actually good Hunters all things considered or absolute Hacks?

>>96040805
The fact that magefans have to choose between the superior mechanics of MageRev, but deal with the avatar storm or use the plot agnostic and shittier M20 is a crime.
M5 is going to be even worse too.

>>96040998
Oh, but when the Progenitors do it, it’s know as “new experimental procedures”, and how there’s a device that’s connecting once separated nerves, allowing them to walk again. Yeah, that’s totally what they did, trust me.

>>96040998
No. You only get permadox for giving yourself superhuman traits.

>>96041040
They were pretty low tier but had the favor of literally God

>>96041076
I thought that gave you pattern bleed

>>96041040
I'd argue they actually get worse the longer the series goes on, since it starts giving them God-ordained plot armor.

Early on they accomplish some fairly impressive things though as just two dudes with no regular back-up. Sam's psychic powers were straining and had caveats when they were first introduced as well.

I didn't really follow the series past a certain point.

>>96041050
That's literally what they did and it works, too. That's how the Technocracy works, by influencing the consensus until the masses are willing to accept their wonders as a facet of everyday life. Such a device would have imploded in a fit of paradox a mere century earlier, but it's believable after all of the other "technological advances" that have been made since then.

>>96041040
they are okay tier 1 low tier 2 hunters depending on their equiptment

the total hack is castiel who at some points in the show get's nerfed so hard that he actually loses a fight that normal human dean wins despite that fact that he is meant to be stronger than his season 4 version at that point

>>96041040
>Infernalists
>One died from tetanus
>Guardian Angel merit
>Only a son left behind
Low-tier but they had hacks

>>96040900
Oops nice cyberfetish legs you have there
>Jam Technology
Aaaand they're gone
Hell, there's an exact Cyber Dog Metis with that exact Metis deformity. His body's made of tech, tech which can be broken.

>>96041203
Yeah, that's what I was referencing.
But that's still better than having the deformity of "you're a fucking full body paralysis cripple."
>But what about a combat wheelchair?!
Jam Technology works on that too.

>>96041141
Nah. You only get pattern bleed for changing your pattern. You can put a permanent spell on yourself with zero side effects(see: prosthetic arm), the issue is that anyone else can dispell that effect(breaking a prosthetic is pretty easy).

>>96040481
Be the guy that sells his soul to the Wyrm and found Pentex

>>96041203
Can't you jam legs with a crowbar too?

>>96040481
Does one of the Mummy (Resurrection) types allow you to replace the part of your soul that's stupid?

>>96040481
Without any form of ID my only real option is infernalism if I don't want my mind sapped by a wandering wizard or vampire.
Let's say that's off the table. I'm going to have to turn to crime. Or I guess try and fake my way into the Arcanum if I can find out where they are.

>>96041734
in general the part you get is meant to be the part you are "lacking" as person

>>96040481
Arcane Sorcerer is the way to go if you don't want to be beholden to some cunt or deal with the metaplot nonsense.

Figure how to make yourself capital-I Immortal (preferably with the gotcha bypass that's rare as hell and genuinely hard to kill anyone with so you can laugh it off), then just enjoy life and slowly engineer your magic into something that suits your tastes, not just ensures you're weaker than demons, mages and so on. Pick some physical exercise like Shen/Yung/Kuei Chuan for general fitness and cool parkour. Find nice, talented mortals, teach them the ropes and ensure they won't be nabbed by some vampire bugger looking for another minion.

Get some were-coyote, were-fox or were-crow friend to hand out with and to help with the nature/spirit stuff. Or maybe even a mokole. Someone clever and chill, not an idiot prone to tard rages.
Well, that's about it.

>>96041801
Yes, and I'm lacking intelligence (but I think that's more a mind problem than a soul problem).

>>96041826
Mind is linked to a part of the soul in mummy metaphysics(the Ba I believe). So you'd become one of the scroll-bearers after the tem-ahk upgrades your mental hardware.

>>96040481
The ultimate goal is owning a Private World for me.
At least if I can awaken.

>>96041845
>scroll-bearers
Alchemy, huh? Well, I'd prefer Effigies; but I'll take it.

>>96040481
I get a job at Orpheus and hope the rest of the world never notices me

What's the fansplat you wish actually went somewhere? For me, it's Janus: The Persona

Give me book recs that actually make Gangrel look cool. Most of the time the characters they present are 100% just after thoughts.

>>96042022
Sovereign the Autonomy is probably the most interesting one.

>>96042030
For argument's sake, what makes you think so?

>>96042030
Agreed. Leviathan is kinda cool, but getting your group to play a sea-involving anything is... eh.

>>96042026
Beckett is the only cool Gangrel I can recommend.

>>96042022
Persona?!?

>The Syndicate refers to Paradox as a ‘Market Correction’

>>96042022
My favorite, as silly as it was, was Princess the Hopeful; but I don't think it was worthy of 'going anywhere'. Leviathan the Primordial is the one that I most feel deserved for the publisher of the time to reach out to the creator(s) and make a deal to make it official. Genius the Transgression was a cool one as well.

>>96042044
>getting your group to play a sea-involving anything is... eh.
Really? The chronical I played in what set in a coastal city and involved a fair amount of sea stuff, and people loved it.

>>96042039
Out of the "first draft" stage fan games it was the one with and interesting premise and limitations. The idea of bodies being gear was interesting and the limitations of only able to be somewhere with a connection could lead to interesting scenarios.
>>96042044
Leviathan is fleshed out enough to port over the shit you like into a War against the Pure character or Deviant.
The Mokole also exist but getting a group to translate shit is not viable.

The Virtual Adepts were right. Most people are too ignorant for the web, and we’re all worse off for it.

>>96040481
so I immediately awaken as a Marauder that is convinced he is a pen and paper TTRPG? well guess I do marauder shit since I wouldn't really have any other choice

>>96042044
>>96042081
>getting your group to play a sea-involving anything is... eh.
Some players are like cats. Delusions of grandeur, casual, recreational sadism, hate getting wet - yet drink from the tap at every opportunity, look competent but do dumb things all the time.

>>96042177
>so I immediately awaken as a Marauder
No, awakening isn't that easy. You'd just be a normal schizo.

>>96041040
okay hunters but they just happened to have a infinite dot ally (God)

>>96042202
The Abrahamic God would work best as a 30 dot totem. Once per story they bullshit the circumstances in your favor.

>>96042202
>>96042300
This is the exact same effect as the 7 point "Guardian Angel" merit.

>>96042320
Which, incidentally, they had

>>96042186
>Some players are like cats.
I can't remember where I read it, but it was something to the effect of "Writing your own campaign is like buying one of those expensive 'cat condos' for your cats and then watching them spend all day playing in the box that it came in and eating the packing peanuts."

>>96042300
The ban being once per story they pull some bullshit to fuck you over hard because something you do inevitably pisses them off. We're talking 30 years in the desert.

>>96041203
Not a CyberDog, but treated by one, because his original deformity was osteogenesis imperfecta. But he still regenerated, so moving around was doubly agonizing and the pain never ended.

Also, the replacement effect requires Control Complex Machine, specifically. Jam Technology doesn't seem to do it, but I guess it's always up to the ST. Cyberfetishes might also be a special case on account of the spirits inside of them being resistant to the Wyld chicanery of the Gift.

>>96041561
"Local Man Ruins Cosmos, Damns Existence."

>>96042300
>>96042405

The ban would bring the cost down a great deal. I'm thinking of that one Oglaf comic.

"Opening a banana from the wrong end. No telling which end that is."

"BLAAAAAASPHEMYYYYYYY!" (God starts team-killing)

>>96041910
I don't think they just give you all the fent you want unless you mine the Nether when you nod off.

>>96039090
Donut Steel, but one from before your times

Which clan is more retarded, Tzimisce or Tremere?

>>96042866
Tremere. There are so many splatbooks about enemies getting past their wards and vampires pretending to be tremere, in their chantry, for YEARS, without notice. The only actually competent chantry was vienna, which means the writers had to nuke it to prevent anyone being competent in V5

>>96042652
>a banana
Behold! The atheist's nightmare!

>>96042652
>I'm thinking of that one Oglaf comic.
I'd forgotten about that one.

>>96042652
>Damns Existence
Yeah but I'll be stupidly rich doing it, and really, all the other plans involving awakening are reliant on you being one of the 0.001% and not getting nommed by vampires or werewolves, enslaved by changelings, made a statistic by mages, or eating radioactive cereal from Pentex.

>>96040481
>Assuming your goal is to become as powerful as possible, what do you do?
Didn't some white-roomer give a step-by-step guide on how to safely (ab)use infernalism, and potentially become the strongest thing in WoD, some months back?

>>96043278
Is it just starting a serial killer cult and grinding other souls to buy infinite Investments?

>>96043337
No. Let me search it up.

>>96043278
Infernalism is a scam that works precisely by drawing in fools that think they are smarter than all previous fools and their plan to cheat the system will totally work.

>>96043337
It's two posts actually:
https://desuarchive.org/tg/thread/95737681/#95746986
https://desuarchive.org/tg/thread/94556941/#94562745
Human sorcerer is the logical conclusion of all white-room apparently.

>>96043278
It was more of a simple outline of different demon types and their viability to make a pact with. The entire thing hinges on you being a master manipulator who can avoid committing too much in your first pact's terms or the demon manipulating you into needing them for the immediate future. Then you have to find another demon behind your current master's back and activate their ntr instincts to steal you away from their rival because its funny to them. Then repeat that for infinite investments for no real cost. How you would actually achieve this as someone who does not already have highly esoteric and legal knowledge along with amazing social skills is up in the air. Also the fact your willpower is likely shit so you might just have your agency taken away anyways.

>>96043384
>Betas think they can use infernalism to become a Chad, but only Chads can actually get the upper hand against Demons in the first place.
It's hilarious really.

>>96043378
People get the better deal with infernalism all the time in both WoD and Mythology, just like every lottery has a winner.
The issue is assuming that (You) will be that winner.

>>96043408
It's free advertising, what it is.

>>96043384
>Then repeat that for infinite investments for no real cost.
Even if you don't wager your soul, there's still a cost. You need to commit evil acts to fulfill low level pacts, which will inevitably get you in trouble with any social connections, the law, every demon hunter, etc. It's not sustainable long-term.

>>96043433
The evil part is perfectly sustainable, it's that the twats sneak hooks into your soul and magic that's the problem.

Nothing a demon can give you that you can't get yourself, anyway.

>>96043384
There have been 3 or 4 books on demons; which system are you referring to?

>>96043450
>it's that the twats sneak hooks into your soul and magic that's the problem
Only demon Lords can do that. The rank and file can't take away your true-magic.
>Nothing a demon can give you that you can't get yourself, anyway.
Theoretically true, but in practical term not really.
A man who spent 20 years studying magic could have spent that time becoming a business guru instead and be rich, but if he uses that magic to summon a demon and become rich that way, then he's got magic And wealth. You "can" get anything a demon can give you on your own, but you can't have Everything a demon can give you, all at once, on your own. At least not without without plot-armor level luck.

>>96043398
The brain eater one is the only thing vaguely possible in application due to it being actually broken. Although I do not think there is any way you could actually be one in the proposed scenario. The default option requires you to be possessed by a specific bane while undergoing research experiments done by pentex. You have to be a psychic to be in this program and be considered exceptional by their standards for it to be done to you. The other is to be born a fomori called a ferectoi whom can have any powers. Obviously you cannot become one. There is also the fact that if you somehow find a never described bane before and somehow get possessed in the perfect way you now have a spirit parasite dictating all your actions so the entire thing was a loss scenario from the very beginning.

>>96043433
The no real cost part is the fact you are going to be forcing others to pay for it if you are doing it properly.

>>96043461
I was mostly talking about the umbral demon description. One thing he glossed over in his description is that devil's due demons can ravage their thralls so sure you can try to rebel but you will get fucked in the attempt if you attempt it as casually as it was implied.

>>96043476
>The default option requires you to be possessed by a specific bane while undergoing research experiments done by pentex.
Any bane can give you any power. You just need to trade the autonomy/taints for it.
The pentex psychics are just the mass-production version they can forcibly induce in others. A possessed can just made a deal with their spirit for the power they want.

>>96043476
Can't a magic user just Summon the bane they want?

>>96043476
>you now have a spirit parasite dictating all your actions so the entire thing was a loss scenario from the very beginning.
This only happens if the spirit's willpower is higher than your autonomy anon. A high-autonomy possessed that hasn't taken any taints yet is pretty much fully self-willed save for the annoying guest in their head trying to convince them to do shit.

>>96043500
I have not read too deeply into this, but being able to pick in choose might be more of a meta thing you can do as a player. For being the actual possessed the manifestation might just be random or vaguely influenced by who they are. If I am wrong then that does give it some more reliability. You are definitely making a trade though especially with the autonomy.

>>96043505
the assumption was that you were isekaied into the setting. you have no actual magic knowledge. you at best know simplified lore blurbs about a subject rather than what makes up the actual individual parts that make it all work. So you will need to somehow find a way of summoning the perfect bane from scratch and get it to do what you want.

>>96043522
I do not expect people on average to have particularly high will so I expect many to just cave in.

>>96043450
>Nothing a demon can give you that you can't get yourself, anyway.
Infernalism is the only way to get weird/rare backgrounds on characters that're normally mechanically incapable of having them. Those are things you genuinely can't get on your own.

>>96043539
>I do not expect people on average to have particularly high will so I expect many to just cave in.
Unfortunately, fair. It would take disappearing and diving deep into arcane research for Years without getting killed, or worse "recruited" by a the tremere.

>>96043473
You need that plot armor, luck and the storyteller enabling you against the intent of the feature for the entire chronicle to cheese the infernal deals. Or fully join their dicksucking hierarchy.

And the take that you can't be simultaneously rich and sorcerous is wrong, anyway, you can be if you want to, and there are synergistic paths and practices for wealth and influence. The Syndicate loooves all things economic and profitable, so tends to look the other way, and even cooperate in a deniable fashion unless you're very stupid or disruptive.

But sure, demon deals are precisely the shortcut for the very lazy and very stupid that think themselves to be cunning.

>>96043563
>the storyteller enabling you
Weren't we talking about IRL isekai into the setting? It a white-room anon, nobody less autistic the chris-chan actually thinks an ST would allow any of this shit.
>And the take that you can't be simultaneously rich and sorcerous is wrong
Anon, you're strawmanning. That wasn't anything close to what I was saying and you know it.

>>96043583
not him, but I would not classify this scenario as being a true white room. In a whiteroom you can just select features with points and determine who this is happening to with perfect precision. Being tossed into WoD without anything just makes you immediate victim bait that has to survive night by night. You need to consider the actual realities that going certain routes entail rather than handwave it all being accomplished and slotting together perfectly even if in a backstory it took the person decades while being perfectly suited to it. You would need to actually live out those decades as you are and hope for the best.

>Captcha
I think it has told us what the winning strategy is.

>>96040481
Realistically, your only 2 options forward are joining the arcanum or a vampire faction. It's not like you can become any kind of other supernatural except a mage, and you're not awakening just because you want to. No one else is going to give your dumbass the time of day either, so it's not like the hermetics are letting you join their sorcery program until you're already a respectable sorcerer.
Best option is gonna be the arcanum. There are canonical locations for them that you can run too and they might actually believe you schizophrenic ramblings.
Now there's just the issue that a truly autistic WoD fan has too many arcane knowledge, like Knowledge: the Wyrm 6+ as far as the setting is concerned, and conceptual being tend to notice people who know too much.

>>96043583
>A man who spent 20 years studying magic could have spent that time becoming a business guru instead and be rich
You said this. When a major mage faction is basically business gurus doing wealth magic, many other mages involve wealth practices in their work in one way or another and more mages are idle rich bastards than austere paupers.

But by all means, let's return to you isekai-ing into WoD. I'm not that sure about your chances of merely breaking even in a minor trade with all those strawmanning and autism noises.
You can't persuade few anons on an anonymous board without falling apart, what chance you've got against beings who specialise in cheating their victims and each other?

>>96043689
>You said this.
Yes and you appearantly missed the point so hard you were in a different postal code.
I was not saying you can't be rich and a mage at the same time. I was saying that there's a limited amount of things a person can focus on gaining or becoming good at in their limited time.
Substitute money with social skills, kung fu, etc. There are mages that specialize in each one, but no one specializes in everything at once and is the best in the world at everything at once.
See my point yet?

>>96043716
Anon, he's baiting you.

>>96043660
>and conceptual being tend to notice people who know too much.
Overwhelming majority of them don't see what's a neighbouring splat is doing in their own backyard, and 1% that remains needs author fiat to win. I'm sure anons would be fine unless they try selling instructions to most prized and secret rituals to the competition or something equally stupid.

>>96043744
Given how retarded each human and splat acts in WoD, I honestly have to assume the "average" of dots would be considered double-digit at most in our universe. Even the average sperg anon would be a once-in-a-generation genius compared to most NPCs.

>>96043716
Your point is way off in another field and using erroneous examples, and the whole "demon pacts are a shortcut for the lazy and stupid" and "you're not diplomatic or intelligent enough to scam demons and don't have an impossibly indulgent storyteller to rule things you way" ideas were already stated.

>>96043738
Is it just me or has this the same guy been lurking in all 3 of the wod threads trying to start shit all day?

>>96043796
Most splats only have one-two dot inflation at most, and many are even understatted.

Insanely inflated ratings is mostly an ancient vampire thing.

The Epstein shit is the result of yet another Syndicate/NWO Paradox backlash.

>>96043796
I mean. I don't feel like double digits. Don't feel even at four.

2 or 1 in Socials, maybe 4 in Stamina as I don't get sick, withstand cold, pain and injury easily and can go for few days without sleep, and 3 everywhere else.

>>96043931
I think the ESL anon is trying to say that the average intelligence(1-to-3 dots) in WoD would be considered double-digin IQ in our world and that our 3 digit-IQ average would be their equivalent of genius in WoD.

What are some Paths that a Tremere stuck in a locked down Chantry for 50 years would have? It’s not just them in there, the rest of the members have also been stuck in there

>>96044054
Blood 5 because the Regent would have enough unfettered access to them to force them to learn Path of Blood first like they're supposed to.

>>96044054
All of the common ones? Unless they have Rego Magia, they're not going to be making any new paths.
It'd be more of a question which rituals they'll develop in that time. Especially since they need to find a way to create blood to not all hunger-frenzy and torpor each other.

A rambling on my idea of Dragon: The Tale - a dragon splat

The basic idea for them is that Dragons are a type of bygone that are similar to Fey, in where they are empowered through human imagination, Awe and wonder. When Banality/Concensus began to take hold they were affected too, as though a great pressure was put on them. So they all collectively agreed to leave the world like the fey, but they left to a dimension of their own creation. It was a seeming paradise to them, and one that was disconnected from the real world. They lived in this paradise for a while and enjoyed their lives. But eventually the problem was discovered; The realm was breaking down.

If they did not do something then it would disappear and they would be at the whims of the primal chaos. They did find a solutiont for this problem. By going back to earth they can gather Awe and Power and send it back to their home, not only delaying the break down but reversing it if they gather enough.

And so the players are dragons on a quest to save their home. This is down by effectively being lynchpins in new age legends; Prehaps they are the enemies that need to be stopped, the wise beasts that heroes seek, or are collectors of object of power and fame. Dragons are beings of Legendary Tales and Stories and from them they gain power. By being Dragons - creatures to be amazed and feared - they become even greater dragons. Power from belief, like the gods.

But the Meta-plot of it would raise the question of whether the world needs Dragons anymore. Does the modern age need the myths of old.

>>96044047
Given the general retardation of how WoD people act, what would the average autist anon rate? Socials are trash obviously, but I think a few anons here would rate int 4-5.
Probably not high in wits unless they're also a vidya addict.

>>96044054
Assuming no contact/intel gathering at all possible?
At least Elemental Mastery, Focused Mind, Warding and Movement of the Mind. Mercury and Geomancy if their Occult Library has them.
A TON of rituals, like, every ritual they're interested in and few rarely useful ones just in cause.

>>96044092
I think Wits should be higher than Int in most cases, but I can agree with being successful at fast-paced vidya or mundane equivalents like gambling as a good bar.

Anon with 4+ Int oughta have run at least that many successful campaigns or got a degree (decent schooling, not gender studies), how about that?

>>96044014
More like Technocracy infighting, NWO trying to clamp down on Syndicate operations.

>>96044120
>got a degree (decent schooling, not gender studies), how about that?
As a person who has to deal with college kids, Hard disagree. Degrees don't show intelligence, they show memorization and obedience. The shit being shoveled into them is also incorrect and out of date by at least 10 years, on top of putting you into massive debt. I'd put anyone who went to college at an automatic intelligence 1.

>>96044132
The Syndicate vs NWO civil war perfectly explain the last 70 years of modern history. If only real life was as easy to explain as this game.

>>96044120
I'd give 4+ to people who actually went to a trade school or a successful entrepreneurship. Everyone tells you to go to college, it takes an intelligent person to ignore them and figure out what actually works instead.

>>96044139
>>96044148
>I'd give 4+ to people who actually went to a trade school or a successful entrepreneurship.
I mean, plenty of dumbasses there too. But I've meant it as the lowest bar. As long as you understand physics, chemistry or biology or as long as you can, say, re-wire your home without creating a fire hazard you should qualify.

>>96044120
Its probably easier to know people's skills than their attributes. I imagine most people here have at least one dot in computers and education. Probably lean towards knowledge skills in general. Unless they actually studied occult topics I would not say they would have a high occult score even if they know huge secrets about the setting. As much as those secrets may be true or not as there are often several stories claimed. They probably have a better grasp in cross splat interactions and what other supernaturals are really like.

>>96044120
>>96044139
>>96044148
>>96044171
Anons, you're arguing about Knowledges, which is a separate thing from intelligence. 70-IQ retards are capable of passing college exam or following the step-by-step instructions to fix a car(it's typically rare).
Only real test of raw intelligence we have is IQ(which is why so many retards try to "disprove" it's effectiveness, because they can't fake it when the test is done properly)

>>96044192
>I would not say they would have a high occult score even if they know huge secrets about the setting
There are separate knowledge for that specifically. Knowlege: Camarilla, Vampires, The Wyrm, Traditions, etc. Rolling everything into Occult was a retarded handwave by lazy DMs.

>>96044192
Drive, Repair, Larceny and Firearms might be fairy common. Strategy (Wargames) and History, too.
Die-hard Tremere and Sorcerer fans would have Occult at at least 4, likely 5 with how obsessed with that shit they are.
Mages possibly too, but I know for sure that some Mage fans would have none whatsoever, they're playing it for make-believe power trip, not out of love for occultism.

>>96044214
Yeah. Any anon that read the "book of the Wyrm" and knows the ways to kill every Maeljin Incarnae would be automatically knowledge: wyrm at 7+. The knowledge in his head could be used to no-sell the apocalypse before it even had a chance to start.
That doesn't mean they know the traditional gnostic rites necessary to summon and angel, the true-names of the handful of gods that appear in every european religion, or even what all the funny shapes in alchemy documents are supposed to mean.

>>96044066
I can't really start with a Discipline/Path rating beyond 3 for this game
>>96044069
As much as I'd like to have like 8 paths, I only have 50 extra experience to spend. They're also not so locked-down that they can't have stores of blood sent to them, but they're not allowed to leave the Chantry
>>96044095
There is outside contact, but it's through mail, couriers, and internet. I unfortunately can't use any DA paths, so Warding's out. My trouble with things like Movement of the Mind is that I'm not sure it's useful enough to justify spending the points on it. Like I mentioned to the other anon, I only have 50 experience points to play with beyond Freebie Points. I was looking into Focused Mind, and I could see how Elemental Mastery could be useful.

>>96044236
>Die-hard Tremere and Sorcerer fans would have Occult at at least 4, likely 5 with how obsessed with that shit they are.
If you are talking about knowing a whole bunch of ritual descriptions then I would not classify that as occult. I would consider that a starter for trying to reverse engineer the ritual yourself. Actual occult skill is memorizing a whole bunch of esoteric connections and knowing several different magic languages so you can draw a ward. Its useful for knowing what exact profession you want to get into, but its like knowing what a chemist can make and what they generally do. You will need to spend several years studying how elements forming compounds if you actually want a comprehensive understanding of how any of that shit actually works to the extent of 4 or 5 skill in a subject.

>>96044249
Even in something like this I am not sure if it has everything that such a knowledge level would imply. They are more like the conclusions of someone with that score sharing that penultimate secret. Presumably someone in the setting with that score will know a whole lot more than what is outright described in the books and be able to improvise various counters to wyrm spirits or recognize every single manifestation without fail. I doubt people are capable of that here even if they know big things far beyond their means.

>>96044288
>Presumably someone in the setting with that score will know a whole lot more than what is outright described in the books and be able to improvise various counters to wyrm spirits or recognize every single manifestation without fail
Given that's not how expert irl work at all, the dot/dice system is kinda retarded. The more knowledgable people get IRL, the more specialized they become, a cellular biologist is going to need help from a biochemist if he runs into a biochemistry problem in his experiement. In WoD, he'd have knowledge biology at some unbelievable score and because that falls under "science" he'd also be good at theoretical physics on the side.
WoD works on hollywood logic. Knowing the deepest secrets of a thing automatically makes you an expert in everything related to it.

come to think of it, I think anons transported to WoD would get a sudden influx of tangentially-related knowledge and skills as their minds/bodies adjust to how WoD works.

>>96044270
Focused mind makes you better at literally everything. Your intelligence effectively becomes wits as you can just gain a whole bunch of dice as needed, Ignore penalties at will, at will autism, extra actions that stack, and reduction to all dcs, harder to mindfuck, and impossible to enrage. If you can get it I do not know why you would hesitate especially if you have no strong theme in mind already.

>>96044317
It certainly would make things more fair because yeah people in WoD are omni talented except when they are completely incompetent both in story and mechanically.

>>96044317
>WoD works on hollywood logic. Knowing the deepest secrets of a thing automatically makes you an expert in everything related to it.
Funnily, this is exactly how it's described when an infernalist learns something from a demon. The demon whispers a dark secret to them and the rest of the foundational knowledge they need just auto-populates in their mind to fill in the blanks.

>>96044270
Thaumaturgical Alchemy (exists under name of Transmutation in latter books, Alchemy in those books is a different thing and absolutely useless) and Dionysis are also great.

Oneiromancy, Spirit, Corruption and Pelis (DA, but I have to mention it) can be great if your ST is cooperative. Conjuration is good for chemist players if ST isn't an asshole.
Father's Vengeance is also decent, but you have to be noddite for your ST to allow it.

I'm now stuck with the image of this happening to an anon who autistically collected WoD worldbuilding threads like MtG cards for his ST sessions, the isekai buff shattering his mind under the weight of multiple knowledge 10's that no mortal is equipped to handle.

>>96044345
>the isekai buff shattering his mind under the weight of multiple knowledge 10's

>>96044326
The only bit of theming that's non-negotiable is taking Path of the Levinbolt. The kind of insanity that comes with using your body as a walking capacitor is a mandatory part of the character. Honestly that's also why I haven't solidly picked Focused Mind, because I'm not sure if that kind of insanity would work well with Focused Mind or not at all. Not in a systems-sense, but a character sense.

>>96044339
Alchemy in Blood Magic is hilariously useless yeah. I was pretty interested in Dionysis just because after at least the first decade or two someone's going to want to learn the "can get drunk" path. I can't really tell how cooperative the ST is yet, so I can't say how useful those Paths would be. I am considering taking the Faux Path though, how useful is that one in play? I was also considering Conjuration since being able to manifest a metal sword or something to use as a conductor for Levinbolt could be neat. Father's Vengeance would be cool, but yeah I'm not sure I could get that one.

>>96044345
Anons, what would be the secrets the tips the scale into 9+ range for various knowledges(and thus make them cognitohazards for isekai-anons)?
I think knowing the entire anarch movement was the side-project of a methusela would be what tips you into elder levels for Knowledge: Anarchs.

>>96044356
>Honestly that's also why I haven't solidly picked Focused Mind, because I'm not sure if that kind of insanity would work well with Focused Mind or not at all. Not in a systems-sense, but a character sense.
This is really easy to explain. You specialize in electricity and the nervous system is all about sending electrical signals. For you path of focused mind is not calmly meditating but you exploiting your nervous system to its fullest extent to achieve a higher consciousness. Levin bolt also describes having static electricity around them at all times. If you are passively always hopping yourself up that could explain your character's mania.

>>96044397
Knowing what is behind the door when you dance the entire spiral.

>>96044356
My advice is to think about your character's concept and chose paths based on that and talk with your ST about what you and he want from the chronicle.
Faux Path can be a pretty great dip, but as the main it offers little direct power; which can be good, too, as it's easier to secure the ST's sympathy and cooperation and get more opportunities to use it in a story-meaningful way.
Try to role-play an interesting character but don't hog spotilght, especially in the matters other underappreciated players are good at, be a likeable, memorable or meme-able supporting character, not the MC in all scenes.

>>96044397
Reading infernalist-anons post linked above and the supplement books for each demon type would put you into elder levels for knowledge demonology. Your mind is definitely going to explode from being stuffed with true names and your intact corpse will be the holy grail of every infernalist and demon in creation.

>>96044397
Literally any of the scenarios from the time of judgement books will put you into knowledge 10 for that splat. The absolute secrets of the universe were laid out to you, like the powers of lilith, the secret to healing the wyrm, the true nature of paradigms, etc.
Reading the 10th dot powers of disciplines from the VtM 2e books should put you to at least 9 for knowledge vampires. That's the kind of info only the ante's and their direct children should know

>>96042992
Always get a chuckle out of the religious citing an obvious bout of intense artificial selection in that capacity. Like, do they know? Have they seen the giant-ass seeds on wild bananas?

>>96043215
Relax, just making a Darkest Dungeon reference. Lamenting that Paradox will never see the potential of making a WoD game like it. You know, just WoD /DD fan things.

>>96044397
Lets take this a step further. If it works for occult lores than what about more mundane things that only the most highly specialized would know? Imagine becoming the ultimate hackerman because you looked up how to fix an obscure issue using the registry or command console by looking it up on the internet so that was taken as your peak?

>>96044420
Damn that's actually an excellent idea. I'll seriously consider taking Focused Mind now.
https://youtu.be/90LcbPXL08w
>>96044437
>My advice is to think about your character's concept and chose paths based on that
That's what I've been trying, but I think I'm figuring out now that I'm trying to balance like two different categories of Paths: Paths that support the electricity obsession and Paths that support Chantry intrigue.
>and talk with your ST about what you and he want from the chronicle.
Eventually, absolutely. I just find that I can't really articulate my ideas well to STs unless I basically make a rough draft.
>Faux Path can be a pretty great dip, but as the main it offers little direct power; which can be good, too, as it's easier to secure the ST's sympathy and cooperation and get more opportunities to use it in a story-meaningful way.
I'd be doing Blood as the main path, of course, but yeah I'm attracted to it because it's not very powerful, but has incredible roleplay potential.
>Try to role-play an interesting character but don't hog spotilght, especially in the matters other underappreciated players are good at, be a likeable, memorable or meme-able supporting character, not the MC in all scenes.
I usually find it difficult to not be a wallflower in games honestly, so I'm not too worried there. And plus it's a pbp game, so the spotlight can be a lot broader.

>>96044490
Imagine having drive 5+ because you once played one of those hyper-realistic plane simulators that used actual plane controls.

>>96044495
>Damn that's actually an excellent idea. I'll seriously consider taking Focused Mind now.
Enjoy your divinity through the manipulation of azoth itself brother.

>>96044356
>>96044495
Even one Faux dot can literally save your party, but the most important thing about the Faux's 1st, 4th and 5th dot is nobody realising it exists and nobody realising you're bamboozling them. 2 and 3 can be handy if your ST uses a lot of sus effects.
>>96044505
That would be Pilot.

>>96039203
Sauce?

When the fuck is Hunter: The Parenting coming back with the next episode?!?

>>96044588
hopefully never, They should kill themselves.

>>96044590
Fuck u, their stuff is fantastic and highly entertaining.

>>96044534
The potential of the undead body is waiting to be found.
>>96044548
I'm not really sure how I'd use the 4th or 5th dots, but the 1st and 2nd dots really appeal to me. Being able to see someone use a subtle Discipline in Elysium, for example, sounds really useful, and being able to force disbelief is obviously really useful.

So I have a question related to this thread: >>95940414
Can WoD be used to run a Gravity Falls-type mystery investigation game with magic... without using Mage? Can it be done with one of the lesser splats like Mortals? Which books might have the minor hedge magic and rituals?

>>96044636
oWoD has Hunters Hunted and several other minor books like the Arcanum one that work perfectly for that kind of paranormal investigator stuff. Numina covers basic supernatural phenomenon pretty well. Someone's had a raging boner for sorcerer lately so they might say go with that but honestly, I'd only bother with it if you wanted proper wizards to show up, and only to that end.

nWoD standard mortals and Hunter: the Vigil also work wonderfully for the kind of game you're thinking of. In fact between supernatural merits and Vigil's ability to make custom monsters (as well as the many endowments available to higher tier hunters) you could easily run a game like that with just the Vigil core, though extra books are always welcome.

>>96044619
>I'm not really sure how I'd use the 4th or 5th dots
Three primary uses.

The first is a straight imitation of mental and illusory effects. This is where your ST's cooperation and your own moderation is needed most, but it's also least risky and most generally useful.

The second is to distract, confuse and fake out your enemy so they take defensive action, also good with single use items (cursed stakes, bullets and tokens) - they swap their action to dodge - good because your team is spared an attack and they've left themselves exposed to a real attack from your comrades, they fail/don't dodge and understand that it's bullshit - also good, because you follow up with the real deal that seals their fate.

The third and by far the worst (as it's liable to out you as faker and the path's existence, targets of the last two dots that are clued on on the falseness of it shouldn't never survive the encounter) is presenting yourself to be more capable than you are. Fifth dot is expensive to boot with costly overt disciplines. But even so, even in minor ways it's sometimes helpful to get one over on the Discipline's actual master
>Note that a Kindred duplicating Celerity, for example, could not actually move faster than a normal Kindred, but she could perform parlor tricks with Faux Celerity, such as “snatching the pebble from the hand of the Master” and the like. Of course, to snatch the pebble from the hand of someone with Celerity may well require her to spend the extra blood, and even then she would likely have to win a contested roll.

Like I said, it's not strong and it needs ST's cooperation, but it can be pretty nice.

>>96044345
your post reminds me of the "all fiction is mtg" anon we had on here a few years ago who went into a ausitic fit about how lilith is a planeswalker

>>96044588
from what I've understood from the update on patreon they just have to finish the voice acting on the next episode so probably some time this month

>>96044588
They stuck themselves in another writing quagmire. They claim to be crawling out of it and that it won't happen again, but they also said that two times prior and neither time it stuck. Which is sadly unsurprising, in my estimation they've made an awful mess of the plot and do not seem to be on the path to entangle it.

>>96042652
Mate you can just look up the page in the Glasswalkers revised book, it mentions both Jam Technology and Control Complex Machine

>>96044861
my suspicion is that because they are all friends management aren't emotionally able to put the foot down and make them work which makes them spend working hours goofing around instead of, well, working

>>96044861
You see the same thing happen to lots of small operations like this. Obviously, the idea should be to expand their writing team, but they don't have the money and hiring the right person takes time. Fine, so why not take out a small loan to pay a 3rd party to deal with the work of hiring the right person? Well, everyone there knows each other, and they want to keep it that way, because they all like the same stuff. So they'll be stuck for a while until they either sell out with more sponsorships or cheap merch or miraculously find the exact person for the job.

Meant to say disentangle.
>>96044942
You're probably right. Friends make for decent co-workers but horrible bosses. I've made the same mistake before.

I'd say a problem downwind of that is they're not writing (or for that manner animating) in a manner conducive to their development problems. They're adding new plotlines and characters constantly, which is fine when you're releasing things frequently, but becomes a compounding mess when your release schedule is slow. Cliffhangers are left hanging far longer than they should be. Plot beats go unresolved for up to a year. The audience has entirely too much time to speculate about where things will go, leaving you in the unfortunate position where you may feel pressured to change things if they were too spot-on, or over-explain if you feel they are too far off the mark. I found the bit where they debunked the occam theory to be very annoying because not only did it feel very directed at the audience, it also didn't even properly address the argument in favor of occam being sus. Granted I have a dozen problems with that episode. If you won't be updating frequently, you should try to stick to one thing at a time to keep the audience invested.

Animation has a similar issue where they are trying to pursue a higher degree of fidelity for increasingly diminishing returns. I think they could've stuck with the level of animation seen in Episode 3 and nobody would've complained. Their current approach seems very inefficient.

>>96040481
I join the Void Engineers and reclaim the solar system as humanities god given right.

I don't wanna play around on earth, I wanna be in SPACEEEE. Also depending on the timeline or where, Fucking make fat stacks of money and then support them.

>>96044987
I actually don't think their problems would be solved by hiring more writers. Writing is one of those things where too many cooks in the kitchen can and will spoil the soup.

I think their issue is how they're going about the writing.

>>96042081
damn, did Genius the Transgression die?

>>96044588
>>96044590
Watched a bit of it, was pretty boring. Only the wizard dude is funny sometimes.

3.6 Not great, not terrible.

for me it's Norfolk wizard game

>>96037167 (OP)
>What's a flaw your character took that made a more compelling chronicle, while actually inconveniencing you and your party?
Of those available to everyone Enemy is the best on that count, you get to design your own villain, their MO - or have ST do all that, they would inconvenience you as often as they can and storytellers are really reluctant to kill them off.
Keeps the stakes up, presents an acceptable target, keeps your character specifically relevant and prominent without hogging all the spotlight, can get you killed...

Exclusively for Mage and Sorcerer there's
Gremlin - a pixie, baby dragon, grimalkin or some other monster that chews and vandalises things up, starts fires, pisses people off with pranks, basically a supernatural vindictive stalker or pet like familiar except rowdy, doesn't need to be fed quintessence, and is borderline impossible to kill off, so you can bring them on dangerous adventures unlike regular pets, familiars and companions
and Apprentice - a human shaped, mortal spellcasting gremlin that you have to teach and bail out of trouble.

>>96045209
>play mage
>character is a hermetic
>reach arete 3
>must now take an apprentice
>now have to worry about some newly awakened mage's education alongside all the other plot stuff
it does make for a good shake up

>>96045260
Just steal a gifted apprentice from another mage.

>>96045472
But then another mage steals that apprentice

>>96045581
at some point, you'll steal them back

>>96045472
>>96045581
>>96045869
>hermetics all obsessed with the same roasty
An apprentice that was actually worth the effort would be able to be "stolen" from you.
Have some fucking standards.

>>96045900
Sounds like someone's got sour grapes over their stolen apprentice, to me.

>>96045906
No, I've had a number of actually functional apprentices that did their time and are now respectable mages.
You would do well to find one focused on learning rather than one focused on playing house politics.

>>96040481

>Get embraced as an tremere
>Move to some small town in Scotland with lots of deer in the vicinity.
>Learn path of mind
>Use it to keep humanity high at 9-10
>Befriend other supernatural creatures who also have big life spam (everything besides werewolves)
>Enjoy immortality outside of Cammy politics, having high humanity, and with other big supernatural friends with lifespan, and maybe searching for the Golconda on my free time.

Why is the Camarilla so retarded that it denies the existence of the Antediluvians? Thinking that they have anything to gain from hiding those facts just makes them the biggest retards.

>>96046622
>just become a tr*mere unaffected by politics
ok bro, keep us posted

>>96044636

Just play Chronicle of Darkness Core Rulebook

>>96046632
Because openly acknowledging the existence of the antediluvians legitimizes Sabbat which any self respecting prince would never do

Went back to read through the wyrm supplements in WtA after an anon pointed out ranks 7-9 exist all the way to revised at least.
Looking at the book of the Wyrm, there should technically be rank 7 and rank 8 black spirals running around since unlike gaian fera, they don't become incarnae until rank 9. However, we don't get any example NPCs or potential gifts for them.

>>96044903
The problem is that I recalled differently and was being lazy (GW Rev literally five feet away in shelf, but it's been in my possession for over two decades so...)

>>96047421
Tangent that has nothing to do with this, but since wyrm rank is based on how deep you dance the spiral, and Anyone can dance the spiral if they're tough enough, doesn't that mean non-fera like fomori can hold wyrm-rank?

>be me
>Cuntus bani Tytalus
>finally reach Arete 3
>my mentor congratulates me as I dodge the five feral Garou he released in my bedroom at 3 in the morning
>later that day I get to meet my new apprentice
>first thing I do is pull a gun and shoot them right between the eyes
>they die immediately
>former mentor cries a single tear of joy

>>96048054
Why does everyone quietly ignore how the tytalus mentorship program is identical to the nephandis training method?

So for my Imbued campaign, I'm planning on having one of the kindred the PC's encounter be a tragic, aspiring superhero (thanks to anon for letting me steal his idea). He was a nerdy LARPer in life struggling with burgeoning adulthood, his close friends moving away, and having no family since his mother recently died and he never knew his father. He's a reclusive nerd with a deep sense of wonder, which the local game shop owner (changeling) took interest in; feeding into his fantasies and hosting a LARP community for all the juicy glamour. Unfortunately, the business isn't doing well and corporate takeovers are flooding the town with banality, so the shop owner decides to induce rhapsody in the boy since "his future is cursed with banality anyway" so he can get a good supply of glamour before moving elsewhere. This incites the young man to try and actually be a superhero (like Kickass), and convince his friends to join him. On their first night "on patrol" they stumble into a Sabbat pack in the middle of feeding, which they interrupt before getting the shit kicked out of them. The Brujah runt of the pack gets shit from the others for losing their prey to a gaggle of kine. Enraged and having something to prove, the Brujah decides to make shovelheads of the boys and set them upon the town to fuck with the local anarchs. This backfires spectacularly as the rhapsodized boy awakes in a frenzy and diablarizes his two friends and then his sire, all while hallucinating that he is fighting villains as a superhero. After regaining consciousness, he remains deluded that he was endowed with superpowers to fight creatures of the night and find the monsters that took his friends (whom he unknowingly ate). My thinking was that this delusion is a kind of path of enlightenment for him, where playing the role of a superhero helps him resist the Beast. The delusion could be particularly intense since he was in rhapsody while embraced. Is this something that could feasibly happen?

>>96045033
>damn, did Genius the Transgression die?
I don't know about 'died'; I personally have never seen anything beyond the original book, but I've not been tracking it closely.

>>96048155
probably out of fear that they will direct their apprentice murdering skills towards them instead

>>96042081
>Leviathan the Primordial is the one that I most feel deserved for the publisher of the time to reach out to the creator(s) and make a deal to make it official.
Fucking why? The lore was so undercooked it was still squirming in the pot, and the mechanics side was literally unplayable.

>>96048511
Still better than the closest thing we got, which was Beast.

>>96042866
>>96042927
Tremere's stupidity is so powerful it reaches across editions and gamelines, affecting even Awakening's Tremere Legacy.

>>96048526
That's like saying being punched in the face is better that being kicked in the crotch.

>>96048511
>The lore was so undercooked it was still squirming in the pot, and the mechanics side was literally unplayable.
The lore had a lot of good Prompts but that was all it had.

>>96048760
Yes, that is what I said.

>>96044565
How new are you?

>>96048155
>Why does everyone quietly ignore how the tytalus mentorship program is identical to the nephandis training method?
The difference between tytallii and nephandi is entirely semantical.

>>96046632
They know. All the Camarilla mechanisms for trafficking kine also function for serving your young to methuselahs.

>>96049414
>>96048482
They're also a convenient scapegoat for anything going wrong in the Order, even, and especially when it's Bonisagus, Quaesitor and Janissary's fault. Because whatever it was that happened you can safely bet Tytalus made it worse on purpose.

>>96044772
Those are some good points, I’ll keep them in mind while I mull over the finalists.


I also agree with some previous anons who mentioned that this character should have a shitton of rituals, so i’m interested if any of you anons have any recommendations or personal favorites. The pricing for rituals in this game are 1exp per dot of the ritual, and I get one ritual per dot of Thaum instead of just the usual one with the first dot.

>>96049850
One ritual with no time costs per dot of Thaum is the standard rule, not a house rule.

What books you're allowed to take from? Nevermind, I'll just list the common ones.
Sacred Haven, Evening Freshness, Communicate with Sire, Purge the inner Demon, Purity of Flesh, Introduction (yeah, it's useless, especially if you're stuck in a chantry for fifty years, it's still the tradition), Infusion, Sanguine Assistant, Talisman/Phylactery are all but mandatory to learn eventually. The latter specifically is the customary Tremere's fifth dot ritual, even if it's hard to perform and would successfully performed only once, you'd have to put more effort into convincing the storyteller to pick another as your fifth dot.

Mask of Shadows, Incorporeal Passage, Blood Walk and Vires Acquirit Eundo are very common. Pavis too, but only if you're trusted not to reveal it even unto death. Most players develop some sort of Willpower-refilling ritual, especially if playing with permanent Willpower at risk rule. Fiery Touch and some of the weapon/stake/projectile enchantment sets would be known by combat specialists, but rarely by someone else.

Regent generally needs to know Wards, Contract, Transubstantiation, and One Mind of the Covens. The latter three are also a must, as they are Tremere's ways to enforce control and coordination of the clan; a chantry that doesn't bind their apprentices, doesn't officiate its agreements properly and doesn't join magic zoom conferences is liable to get purged.

>>96050209
>Introduction (yeah, it's useless, especially if you're stuck in a chantry for fifty years, it's still the tradition)
Needs to be noted that while many younger Regents are fine with you not knowing it, some old-fashioned Regents can and will treat entering their dominion without performing it as a capital offence.
So if you're a Tremere, and travel to a land of some Tremere older than discovery of Americas, better learn it.

It also can used to pass an urgent message to local Tremere when time is of the essence and you can't afford the delay incurred by trying to reach them properly.

>>96049542
>Because whatever it was that happened you can safely bet Tytalus made it worse on purpose.
maybe if everyone else weren't a bunch of complacent sissies then this wouldn't be a problem

>>96050381
Tytalus: there's no problem, so I made one!

>>96046632
The Camarilla is a Ventrue conspiracy to ensure Elders stay Elders and any young blood are controlled and unaware of anything that could cause them to question their Elders. They’re not retarded, they’re rewriting history and actively aware of the fact they’re doing so. They don’t tell fresh blood about things like diablerie or how generations work or really anything at all. They use them as expendable meat to keep themselves comfortable.

>>96050495
>Ventrue conspiracy to ensure Elders stay Elders
Bonus: Ventrue Antediluvian was murdered (as in killed for good, not diablerized and lingering in the host) way back in the very first vampire settlement. Not subjective rumour, but word of developers.

The interesting implication thus: the oldest Ventrue are diablerists and are lying about their siring circumstances,
ooor, the vampire species is a lot younger than it would have you believe (and that excuse still only works for a couple of old Ventrue, the rest are still lying diablerists).

>>96048235
Reasonably. Depends on the intensity of the rhapsody,

Do vampires 'default' back to the emotional state they were in while being embraced whenever they wake from torpor?

>>96050656
Not really. Usually they default to ravenous hunger unless they were roused with proper ritual by their minions, or otherwise are exceptionally benign and strong-willed.

>>96050644
>word of developers
This is worth less than used toilet paper and you know it. First thing they ever put their foot down on was that there'd Never be a guide to the sabbat.
The guide to the sabbat then came out later that same year.

>>96050782
That and the Ventrue Antediluvian just being gone is less interesting in most cases.

>>96050782
Lolwhat? Pushback against letting people play antags exists everywhere, but Sabbat sourcebook was always going to be a thing, it was in the upcoming product list, and there absolutely wasn't a hard printed "there'd Never be a guide to the sabbat" statement any-bloody-where.

>>96047907
Technically, the spiral-dancing is because the BSDs are corrupted White Howlers, who made a cultural touchstone out of something similar before they were BSDs. You could somehow manage to destroy the Black Spiral (technically, confuse the Wyrm into hitting itself so that it destroys it itself because its many parts rabidly attack each other, but whatever), and the Garou and Fera would still be corruptible. They just wouldn't be dancing the spiral if they ended up that way.

>>96047421
There were Renown benchmarks for Rank 7, at least, in 1e. They did not continue on into 2e, and I think the game assumes that if you get that far you stop being properly considered Garou or Fera, becoming more like Number Two or Hakaken.

>>96050782
I wouldn't trust the Vampire devs from any era of the WoD but some of the ones from other games back in the proper WW era were reasonable.

>>96050644
>the oldest Ventrue are diablerists and are lying about their siring circumstances,

I just can't believe all but one or two Ventrue methuselah ate their way up to fourth and nobody knows about it. Clans get saddled with horrible reputations for far less and for as many enemies as they have, the Ventrue largely convince others to follow you. Especially with how few fourth gens existed even in the olden days, someone would notice when some methuselah vanishes and a 4th gen Ventrue happens to pop up soon after. Idk man, I just can't buy that.

>>96050782
>>96050851
I'd agree that the word of the devs shouldn't be given too much weight. Fuck ToJ in general though. I'm not against the Ventrue Ante being dust per se, but it's obvious ToJ took that angle just because they didn't want to think of something for him/her to do.

Personally I think the Antediluvians are best shrouded in mystery. You can have one or two cases like The Eldest where readers know more or less what they're up to. But do it for everyone and it removes most of the mystery and gravitas the third generation should have. I like how most in-setting texts claim Ventru got dusted when everything in the 2nd city went to hell but also maybe two of the known Ventrue 4th gens could be that old. At least one was embraced in the iron age. Oh, and the Ephorate tracks possible sightings of their Antediluvian religiously. It gives a sense of intrigue and mystery to the setting while letting ST's pick what angle they want if their game somehow goes that deep down the rabbit hole.

>>96050969
>>96050782
>I wouldn't trust the Vampire devs from any era of the WoD but some of the ones from other games back in the proper WW era were reasonable.
Most of 1e devs were reasonable, back then, I mean. The only real shitter was Travis Williams, not only because he forced other writers to include shitflake minorities with exclusive superpowers everywhere, but also cause he was massively ignorant about culture of said minorities.

2e had much more rotten fruits, but some great writers also. Revised crew was is kinda bland and very lawyery, but not terrible.

And I can't name a decent person among V20 and V5 devs, even returning ones became raging turds.

>>96051024
Are you telling me all the minority + D&D class clans are one dude's fault?

>>96051064
Exactly that. Not that the collective was... a bunch of hardcore conservatives or anything like that, but one of the first things he did had been to throw a "where are my people of colour, why aren't they special?!" and it all went downhill from there.

>Go into a giant Elysium where a trial for a 8th gen is on trial
>Pass by big open halls
>See room that has to be 20x20 feet
>It has one lone Bunny sleeping on a inflatable mattress
>Ask why is that rabbit here in an empty room
>Everyone is too scared to answer
WHY IT'S BEEN EATING ME FOR DAYS AND MY DM CHANGES TOPIC EVERY TIME I ASK

>>96051090
>a trial for a 8th gen is on trial
I believe when a trial is on trial it's called an appeal.

>>96051090
The Dread Rabbit of Caerbannog. It's a tradition to reference Monty Python among us grognards.

If you want some logical reason, prolly a Tremere wanted to see what would happen if they make a Night Garden bunny with a tanker worth of vampire blood, and then someone thought the resulting oversttated nightmare is cute. Or it's the local Methuselah's favoured ghoul; or Methuselah themselves even.

>>96051090
>Go into a giant Elysium where a trial for a 8th gen is on trial
AI Grammer "Correction"
Thanks Google for adding this to my phone and not letting me turn this off

Sometimes I wonder if the Wyrm is real

>>96051007
>Personally I think the Antediluvians are best shrouded in mystery.
The problem is that there is no mystery after the apocalyptic storylines and 30~ years of lore. Trying to establish that general feeling towards lore that has already been fleshed out doesn't work because people will default to "the previous iteration or fanon is right until proven otherwise". This is probably a TTRPG-only problem.

>>96051126
It's a bunny Tzimisce elder taking a nap

>>96051140
>Sometimes I wonder if the Wyrm is real
If he was things wouln't be this bad.

>>96051064
>>96051087
Aside from tantrums and harassment he's also the main reason why that Werewolf video game was never released.

>>96051101
Sorry about that
The Ai will auto edit my message when I click to type the captcha
Can't turn the stupid thig off
It also likes to randomly pop up and freeze my phone for 20 seconds then ask if I want to know what's on my screen

>>96051155
An elder with Protean or other animal shifting power is more likely.

Tzimisce can't stand looking ordinary, and are more into fleshy horror aesthetics anyway.

>>96051155
Or the Gangrel elder

>>96051087
That's fascinating since pretty much all of those clans are underbaked and rely heavily on a gimmick. They also clash with the more archetypal design of the Cam 7. The wicked elite, the rage-fueled firebrand, the hideous monster, the debauched sensualist, these are concepts that aren't specific to a single culture. If I wanted to do VtM: brown people edition, I would have zero trouble finding things to do with the original seven clans. Well I suppose I now know who to blame for undead race war.

>>96051167
What? There was going to be a werewolf video game and this dude stopped it?

>>96051147
We must travel in quite different circles because I have never had trouble with people insisting I must abide by the lore of a supplement or even the core. Besides which, ToJ and Gehenna specifically should objectively not be canon if you're running any game in which Gehenna has not happened yet, and may never.

I will always give the "official" who, what, when, and where a look when I'm planning a game, but if I don't like what I see, into the trash it goes. I've used some official characters now and again but most of the time I create my own.

>>96051215
>What? There was going to be a werewolf video game and this dude stopped it?
Worse. He was the executive producer in charge of it and between his usual brand of bullshit, his grifting and procrastination, well, he did way more harm than if he were opposed to it outright.

>>96051180
>Sorry about that
Sorry if I came across mean. I knew exactly what you meant, I was just trying to make a joke. Back to your point; if you're GM is anything like mine, he threw in that tidbit just to mess with you and has no idea himself why the bunny was there.

>>96051285
>you're
And as you can see, I botch my typing as well.

>>96051215
>We must travel in quite different circles because I have never had trouble with people insisting I must abide by the lore of a supplement or even the core.
I am not really talking about Players trying to say X/W/Z is canon over core. It's more about the broad community's feeling towards canon and how people retelling the story have a hard time "removing" elements unless there is an explicit substitution.

>>96051269
Damn, any highlights?

>>96051317
I'm not sure I understand your meaning. Do you mean the tendency for people to belt off the same big metaplot moments ie Week of Nightmares when discussing "the setting"?

>>96044565
Kill yourself

>>96051406
Check out some cutscenes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYmiwbO5icc
could've been a nice action game (for late 90s), if they didn't put the worst possible person in charge that dragged it all down till the studio went under.

>>96051406
>Do you mean the tendency for people to belt off the same big metaplot moments ie Week of Nightmares when discussing "the setting"?
Not really, I'm talking about how some people will look at the developers creating an information vacuum and almost immediately go "LOL, No." For example, when W5 tried to make the other shaper shifters, or Pentax into a mystery, there wasn't a reaction because we already know their deals. Ditto for the new takes on the Sabbath until they defined what their gimmicks are or the First Age of Creation in Exalted 3e.
Does that make more sense? I think I might need some coffee.

>>96051007
If not for Plague Bride, I'd think there wasn't a Malkavian antediluvian and they were a bloodline that ate an angel or something.

>>96050969
>They did not continue on into 2e
Kistune/hengeyokai lore agrees, but Book of the Wyrm for 2e disagrees. BotW explicitly says that spirals are ranked by how deep they dance the labirynth, that there are 9 layers, and spirit/incarnae status is only granted at the end/ninth layer. Just the fact they know this should mean at least one dancer came back from the 7th or 8th layer.

>>96051140
>>96051180
This is a weaver issue sadly. Net Spiders do exactly what we tell them to, nothing more, nothing less. We're just really shit at phrasing our orders correctly.

>>96051563
There are even rank 7+ gaian fetishes from 2e in the Rage across Appalachia book, with the undertone that ranks 7+ absolutely existed in the age of legends.
Modern garou are just pathetic compared to their ancient ancestors, just a shame those same ancestors were frothing-at-the-mouth, team-killing retards.

>>96051556
That does make sense, although I think it's a matter of degrees. W5's changes and V5's Sabbat rewrite are harder to swallow because they deal with information that was relatively common knowledge in the setting. The existence and basic structure of Pentex, or the existence of other shifters is something a player character can reasonably be expected to know, especially after even a short game. You can't shroud that in mystery while also pretending to be a continuation of the older games.

But things like ToJ/Gehenna aren't common knowledge and most games take place in a setting that necessitates they did not happen. Since even most V20 games are set post early 2000s. Not to mention in the case of the latter it was explicitly multiple choice. I think it's much easier to re-shroud aspects of them. Of course we all have our biases, my games heavily write over the "default."

>>96051642
>But things like ToJ/Gehenna aren't common knowledge and most games take place in a setting that necessitates they did not happen. Since even most V20 games are set post early 2000s. Not to mention in the case of the latter it was explicitly multiple choice. I think it's much easier to re-shroud aspects of them. Of course we all have our biases, my games heavily write over the "default."
Fair.

How many dots in Life are needed to make a harmless spider, bee or other invertebrate into an extremely venomous specimen?
How many dots would be needed to make a water species, like a jellyfish, capable of living on land or float in the air?
How many dots would be needed to transform the user's fingers into animal parts (scorpion stingers, spider's chelicerae, tentacles, bombardier beetle's chemical-spewing glans)?
What Spheres are actually needed to control animals, give them orders, purpose, speak with them, etc.?

>>96051807
>How many dots in Life are needed to make a harmless spider, bee or other invertebrate into an extremely venomous specimen?
Life 2. Alter Simple Creature.
>How many dots would be needed to make a water species, like a jellyfish, capable of living on land or float in the air?
Life 2 for jellyfishes specifically, higher for complex creatures.
>How many dots would be needed to transform the user's fingers into animal parts (scorpion stingers, spider's chelicerae, tentacles, bombardier beetle's chemical-spewing glans)?
Life 3.
>What Spheres are actually needed to control animals, give them orders, purpose, speak with them, etc.?
Life 2 or 3 for physiological stimulus (+ Correspondence to do so at considerable range).
Mind 3 to communicate and issue commands (+ Correspondence to do so at considerable range).

>>96051807
>How many dots in Life are needed to make a harmless spider, bee or other invertebrate into an extremely venomous specimen?
Depends on the version.
>How many dots would be needed to make a water species, like a jellyfish, capable of living on land or float in the air?
Depends on the version.
>How many dots would be needed to transform the user's fingers into animal parts (scorpion stingers, spider's chelicerae, tentacles, bombardier beetle's chemical-spewing glans)?
Depends on the version.
>What Spheres are actually needed to control animals, give them orders, purpose, speak with them, etc.?
Depends on the version.

>>96051807
>How many dots in Life are needed to make a harmless spider, bee or other invertebrate into an extremely venomous specimen?
Life 2: Alter Simple Patterns.
>How many dots would be needed to make a water species, like a jellyfish, capable of living on land or float in the air?
Life 2: Alter Simple Patterns for simple creatures (any plant, invertebrate, algae or fungus) and Life 4: Alter Complex Patterns for vertebrates and some ayylmao. If you can't achieve the buoyancy through biology, levitation would need Forces 2: Control Minor Forces and proper flight would need Forces 3: Transmute Minor Forces.
Mind you, transforming a jellyfish entirely into, say, a snail would need Life 3: Transform Simple Patterns.
>How many dots would be needed to transform the user's fingers into animal parts (scorpion stingers, spider's chelicerae, tentacles, bombardier beetle's chemical-spewing glans)?
Life 3: Alter Self. Always vulgar, subject to disbelief or acquiring the changes as permanent flaws in the least desirable fashion in actual play.
>What Spheres are actually needed to control animals, give them orders, purpose, speak with them, etc.?
Life Alter effects as above if you do that through physiological stimulus, Mind 2: Read Surface Thoughts/Mental Impulse for crude, rudimentary telepathy. Mind 3: Mental Link for thorough control and communication. You don't need Life if you have Mind. You need Correspondence 2 or higher (same as the effect's level) to activate and maintain the effect across great distances.

>>96052010
>Mind 3: Mental Link for thorough control and communication
Clarification: to direct your animal minions. Actively possessing or otherwise taking control of a sentient, conscious enemy is Mind 4.

>>96052010
>>96052068
Thank you!

Anons, I need a list of general bullshit items that could be bartering chips/plot point items, even mcguffins. I've thought of how a Ley Line Map could be a good reason for a Tremere to barter boons with you, and how a case of diamonds (especially well cut blood diamonds), would be a reason for a LOT of backstabbing just for the monetary value alone. Anyone else have ideas?

>>96052095
There's lots of artifacts in the books. Outside of those, a fang or crystallized blood droplet from a methuselah can drive anyone crazy, since it's said you don't even need to diablerize them to reduce your generation (unless you're just a step below them)

>>96052095
An antique sword with ambiguous monster-slaying history.

>>96052095
>An alleged vial of dragon's blood. Said to burn any who drinks it, but those who survive will find themselves resistant to Rotschreck.
>A coffin that can't be opened by any force during the day.
>A tape that allegedly depicts a prominent plot relevant vampire in your game fornicating with a mortal.
>A mirror that is claimed to be able to allow a Lasombra to see their reflection in it.

>>96052095
Tass (magically charged substance harvested from a place of power, can be water, herbs, mushrooms, soil, tree bark or sap, moss, pebbles, anything) is the common currency of mages and Tremere with the Draught of Earth’s Blood ritual (spend blood to drive down casting diffs for an hour, they would want it, as much as they can get, especially if they're attempting a difficult ritual or are about to fight for their life).

Valuable bits of rare supernatural creatures (scales, fangs and bones of dragons, even fangs of vampire or werewolf elders). Jugs of Caine's or antediluvian blood would turn any vampire community into a bloodbath. Real old bones, especially if the fate of the owner is known and interesting (saints, etc).
Magical weapons, magical trinkets, relics and talismans, even with unknown effects are also a good bait.

>>96052095
Even shards of certain long-destroyed artifacts are valuable. There are splinters of the stake triole used to jump brujah floating around. It one of those fuckers breaks skin, it acts exactly like staking you through the heart for vamps(mortals just get a splinter).

How much does a Path have to influence a Mage’s personality, values, and goals in Awakening? Can you have a very serious and not at all fairy faggot Acanthus? Can you have an animist shaman Obrimos who’s obsessed with learning Spirit magic to commune with the spirits of nature? Can you have a Thyrsus who believes in the “Indomitable Human Spirit” conquering all and who is obsessed with immortality?

>>96052095
Fragmented Enochian accounting tablets and potential archaeological insight into how the city actually worked.

>>96052197
>A coffin that can't be opened by any force during the day.
I've played a Tremere enchanter and funeral director that made bespoke, luxury coffins that, upon the investment of double the owner's Willpower pool restored one point of temporary traits and one health level of any damage for free during sleep and could revive the owner upon final death once.
With vampires, warlocks, sluagh, wraith puppets, even something that I'm pretty sure was a spider lady among his satisfied customers.

So of course a rival Tremere eventually launched his own coffin into outer space (the party had been mostly dead by then as most of them thought their disciplines were better than my coffins, so I'm not that salty about it).

>>96052594
>Caine's tax policy
>Affidavits of loss of bloodbags
>An ancient enochian that boardgame no one knows how to play except for Caine, the antes, and some demons

>>96052702
>An ancient enochian that boardgame no one knows how to play except for Caine, the antes, and some demons
I mean... Playing a game is a much better reason to summon a demon than attempting to scam them for boons like that anon above.
And if that fails I'm sure we can make up rules as we go.

How did the Garou react to the returning Fallen?

>>96052714
"Oh fuck, more wyrm monsters! The Apocalypse is coming!"

>>96052714
>does it stink anything like Wyrm?
The answer doesn't really matter, cause garou operate on
>anyone who runs is a vc, anyone who stands still is a well-disciplined vc
logic.

>>96052732
>anyone who runs is a vc, anyone who stands still is a well-disciplined vc
More like any possessed (which all demons are) who stinks of the Wyrm is a fomor, any that doesn't is a proficient at hiding fomor, cause they're clearly not of the Weaver/Wyld.

>>96052714
garou don't think that there is a difference between dtf demons and banes

>>96052848
>garou don't think
Correct.

>>96048054
in ars magica they guys had another funny/stupid tradition, where other people have soul mates tytalus have destined rivals (who also sometimes fuck inbetween assassination attemps) so if you become a archrival to one of these morons they would declare you to be bani tytalus, even if you are already in another house (especially tremere) or not even a member of the order

and the entire house would play along with the entire denseness of a black star because they don't see anything wrong with their stupid house

and if you tried to kill them for that embarrassment (that's actually what the book calls it) they would see it as a absolute win!

>>96052851
remember that their chosen one king who leads major reforms in the garou nations because he is the first silverfang to question some of their more retarded traditions has int 2

>>96052865
>int 2
Truly a genius of unparalleled intellectual puissance among Garou.

>>96052879
So... are you a saltwater Mokolé, a Bastet pussy or a soon to be featherless Corax?

>>96052879
>>96052865
i assume you are talking about king Albrecht? then please don't forget that he also has politics and leadership 3 so he get's to roll 5(!) full dice to see that the silverfangs in his tribebook are full of shit and that this is enough to not just consistently do so through the entire book but also to have page long shouting matches with the elders of his tribe in which he manages it to break their argument down to "it was just always so"

>>96052922
>least psychotically thin-skinned Garou

>>96052865
>>96052879
It's also our Intelligence, 2 is average.

>>96052865
One of the funny things about how WoD works is that your players are supposed to be special, a Garou with 2 dots in an attribute other than strength or stamina is special.

So, the average Garou has all of the intelligence of a WoD human, but three times the strength and access to magic. Albrecht, having the abilities he does, is actually better than most Garou if you take the rules as written. It's hilarious. Stay in wolf school, cubs.

>>96052922
>a saltwater Mokolé
How much of a threat would a combat-focused veteran mokole be to a bold and fowlish garou pack?

>>96053165
Considering Mokolé can induce Delirium in Garou, take Dragon as a totem to use fire breath, get to 10 Gnosis at character creation thus allowing them to take 10 dinosaur/reptile traits for their Archid form, have access to excellent combat gifts and fetishes including a sword that transforms into a bigger spirit charged sword when they enter their war-form and have a relatively easy time getting new gifts or learning new skills... a combat focused mokolé would be a nightmare for anything but veteran, well equipped and very prepared Garou.

Okay, real question: Do Garou have their genitals hanging out when in Crinos form?
I swear I'm not asking for degenerate fetishistic reasons. I just wanna know if it's possible to shoot/stab/cut/kick them in their dog-nuts and how effective that'd be.

>>96053195
This is downplayed, but some werewolves (metis, tainted freaks, of course) explicitly stated to be hermaphrodites in their war form.

>>96053195
Frenzying werewolves automatically assume crinos, werewolves who roll six or more successes on a Rage check enter the Thrall of the Wyrm, a particularly depraved and monstrous frenzy during which they are influenced by the Wyrm. Metis werewolves who are in Thrall of the Wyrm seek to sexually violate the wounded and the dead, under the influence of the Defiler Wyrm. As this would be impossible to do without genitals, werewolves in crinos, at least the metis, must have genitals.

>>96053213
The sacred rebis!

>>96053195

>>96053225
>>96053213
>>96053241
I uh... I see why nobody likes Metis now.
That's some Nephandi shit right there. I wonder how many BSDs actively hang out with Nephs.

>>96052939
>>96052865
>white wolf is bad at providing stats for their NPCs especially stats not relevant to combat
wow shocker

>>96053183
The biggest thing of that all is probably a doomstack of huge size at chargen, cause it's most common thing mokole have, right?

I'm asking cause gurahl, for example, are colossally hamstrung by the lack of built-in extra actions, so they're pitifully weak in a match up against all logic. Mokole seem more or less the same as garou other than less dex and flexible, potentially busted warform.

>>96053243
there is at least 1 faction of black spiral dancers who want to make as many metis as possible in hopes of making the perfect metis

so a lot

>>96053243
Metis have a few key weaknesses
>Sterile, so they can't produce more Garou
>An incurable deformity
>Don't have an innate resistance to silver in their breed form (As per W20, but I think that's stupid so I usually change that)
>Don't regenerate in their war form
>Being born in Crinos, there's a good chance the mother died during the birth, meaning that their creation already killed one competent Garou and replaced it with a mule.
>Because BSDs rape Gaian Garou to intentionally produce Metis, most of them have BSD blood in there somewhere.

However, part of why the BSDs have outnumbered the Garou is because they produce the most Metis. You have a mostly functioning warrior ready in 8-9 years, with a 100% chance at success. There's no need for werewolf eugenics or spiritual concerns or restraint or the Litany. Shock troops ready and groomed to fight and die for the Wyrm right there and then.

>>96052565
Yeah, I' m pretty sure this is one of the reasons legacies exist.
There are also examples in some books, like Tome of the Pentacle has a Thyrsus Seer whose nimbus is machines, and is obsessed with an orderly society.

>>96053083
>but three times the strength and access to magic
It's actually way more than that. Dots in WoD doesn't increase the thing in question linearly.
Sure, mechanically [Strength 6] is 3 times as strong as [Strength 2] but narratively? 1 is crippled, 2 is average, 5 is peak human.
And a bear has either Strength 5 or 4, depending on which sheet you trust from WTA or VTM

>>96053243
Adding to that anon, a Metis baby can Frenzy inside his mother.
Results are...well, good thing Garou can regenerate because a normal women would be dead thrice over.

Chronicles of Fagness

It's not just that woofs are pants-on-head retarded, it's that retardation is culturally enforced. Countless young woofs have been mauled, excommunicated or killed for pointing out facts a five-year-old would realize in seconds. In woof society, not being a drooling retard is seen as a sign of Weaver corruption and treated with suspicion if not outright murderous hostility.

>>96052848
>difference between dtf demons and banes
I once asked this very question to a knowledgeable sluagh. Her answer was...
"Demons and banes are like sharks and orcas. If you're a marine biologist, they're fundamentally different things that just happen to share some surface similarities. If you're a seal, they're pretty much the same thing."

What would you change about the Camarilla to make it less retarded and better at the one thing that it's supposed to be good at, preventing masquerade breaches?

If you want to improve your experience in this general, remember to filter the word "retard."

>>96053286
>Don't regenerate in their war form
This isn't true, at least by revised and 20th. Metis explicitly regenerate in all their forms, it's the trade-off for not having a silver-resistant form.

>>96054491
Anon, the camarilla's main job is not preventing masquerade breaches. It's job is covering up masquerade breaches. The sabbat's existence alone makes the former impossible.
As far as covering up breaches, do you believe in vampires anon? It'd sound kinda schizo if you did.

>>96054491
The original v5 change they later walked back was actually interesting.
Make the camarilla an actual old boys club, smoke filled backrooms type stuff, instead of the world spanning official vampire government.

https://www.paradoxinteractive.com/media/press-releases/press-release/veteran-worldbuilder-jess-lanzillo-joins-white-wolf-as-world-of-darkness-creative-director

>White Wolf today announced that Jess Lanzillo is now the Creative Director for World of Darkness. A veteran crafter of world-renowned gaming and entertainment franchises, Lanzillo joins at a pivotal moment as White Wolf brings licensing and publishing for World of Darkness in-house to deliver more unified, high-quality experiences across its modern horror IP.

>Before joining White Wolf, Lanzillo was at Wizards of the Coast, where she served as Vice President of Franchise and Product for DUNGEONS & DRAGONS, following years of franchise creative direction for Magic: The Gathering. Her proven experience shepherding and developing beloved gaming properties, while maintaining their core identity, positions her to grow World of Darkness's reach across multiple venues.

>Lanzillo has been a devoted World of Darkness player since the original 1991 release of Vampire: The Masquerade. Her combined passion as a long-time fan and expertise in amplifying player voices allow her to translate community desires into franchise development.

>“World of Darkness has been my creative north star since the '90s, and I've seen firsthand how these games create communities and inspire storytellers,” said Jess Lanzillo, World of Darkness Creative Director at White Wolf. “My focus is on supporting and amplifying what makes these worlds special—the rich lore, the player agency, the mature themes—while ensuring they reach everyone who would love them. World of Darkness is so much more than just games; it's a cultural touchstone with a passionate community and incredible untapped potential.”

How do we feel about this?

>>96055001
i don't think i am going to feel anything till i see the first game/book of new new whitewolf

>>96054753
>was actually interesting
I disagree. They have to live with the lore that it used to be a world-spanning vampire government and then when the most politically savvy clans of the most politically focused splat are given the opportunity to become much more powerful, they instead throw away most of their power and become a gentlemen's club? Absolute retardation
V5's lore can be interesting in a vaccuum, as it's own game. As a continuation of a pre-existing franchise it's some of the most retarded writing ever put to paper.

>>96055001
>Jess Lanzillo
This is another DEI inclusion director, so not really much of change from the current downward spiral. She's most likely a rat that jumped ship when she realized WotC was sinking.

>>96055001
I doubt I'll ever play V5, so I don't care.

>>96055001
>VP of franchise and product for D&D
Doesn't exactly inspire confidence

>>96055001
I am not hopeful but I will keep my thoughts to myself before seeing her first book. Modern D&D background isn't really helping matters.

>>96055129
For like a year and Hasbro only fired her a month ago I think. It's a cancer diagnosis.

>>96055001
>ex-employee from WotC
Are they gonna send Pinkertons against people who pirate White Wolf products?

>>96055001
wodsisters....
it's so fucking over

>>96051140
You can turn it of in keyboard settings. Makes typing more annoying tho.

>>96055001
>the rich lore, the player agency, the mature themes
Whoops, I guess they can't touch W5

>>96055373
(^_________^)
Yes.

>>96055373
they are gonna call it a paradox backlash

>>96055887
This would be a great opportunity to release W5.5 and unfuck the setting.

>>96056257
But that requires effort and artistic vision and we can't have that.

>>96056107
>paradox backlash
>whitewolf was bought by paradox
Why did I never see this before. The fan backlash and market corrections were inevitable from the start.

>>96051563
Again, Number Two. We're not quite sure what he is, but it's not the same thing as a Garou.

>>96051628
Fetish levels above six aren't an indication of Garou or Fera Ranks above six. Unless those were supposed to be two separate ideas.

>>96053183
>Veiled to Garou

Stops applying very well to high Rage Garou or Garou in frenzies.

>Fire Breath
Eats Rage like candy.

>Archid Traits
Those are pretty cool, but the split-up of Huge Size in W20 isn't mechanically handled very well and if you're going in another direction, Garou can pack attack you with action economy on their side.

Silver Claws being earlier for all Mokole is a much more significant advantage in this capacity, along with Rage of the Nest Mother if the Garou are attacking your wallow. Hot Ichor can also use Rage to boost Dexterity for a time, but you're splitting it between more dice and more actions at that point, while your opposition is getting about 10 attacks per turn, collectively, and potentially using Pack Attacks to gain special advantages.

>>96053225
This requires botching a not particularly difficult to pass Wits roll, incidentally. Also, TotW was not in 1e; it just had you eating the fallen instead, regardless of breed. Arguably the better choice for a game of werewolves, but the Angst Parade had to have their due.

>>96053245
Even stats relevant to combat, since really big Mokole don't get treated that much differently when their briefest angular movement should be making even powerful vampires turn into a mist of vitae and bone chips.

>>96053286
>most have BSD blood in there somewhere

Anon, that makes no fucking sense. Go back up to your first greentexted point and think, anon!

>>96056636
Nothing so grandiose - it just requires not having Vampire LARP one true way mains in charge of Werewolf. Still even less likely, though; WoD5 is full steam ahead with flattening everything into just an expansion of V5, even if it's a standalone line with its own core.

>>96056885
>Again, Number Two.
Anon, number two only became incarnae after he became rank 9. He's actually a counter-argument that garou above 6 become something not-garou.

>>96056885
>Archid Traits
A much bigger advantage is traits like extra head or sacral plexus, which provide entire extra sets of extra actions due to having their own brains. A combat mokole can potentially have dozens of actions per turn depending how you build them.

>Be Hunter
>Stalking a Vampire as part of the "research"
>Vamp is a female aprox. 30-34 years old by apperance
>Prettyhot.gif
>She appears at my apartment
>OH SHIT OH SHIT OH SHIT OH SHIT
>Offers me sexual relief in exchange for me leaving her alone and stoip stalking her.
>wut.exe
>Pondering the pors and cons

What should I do Hunterbros? Should I get succc by hoy Vamp or just Kill her?

>>96057502
Stop LARPing, retard.

>>96057502
>>96057502
>What should I do Hunterbros?
Good luck running away because your odds are kind of shit.

>>96057502
>Offers me sexual relief
If the ST isn't pulling retarded magical realm shit, this is definitely an innuendo for biting you and draining your soon-to-be corpse of blood. First time blood dolls tend experience a lot of... sexual release.

>>96057567
How fast a Toreador can run?

>>96057628
>this is definitely an innuendo for biting you and draining your soon-to-be corpse of blood.
It was a good run then.

>>96057186
Those rely a great deal on which multiple action rules you're using.

>>96057673
How good-looking is their pursuer? The higher the Appearance, the more lead-footed the Toreador will be.

>>96057673
>How fast a Toreador can run?
Faster than you.

>ST
>Game itself is usually in-person or through discord call if the players can't make it
>We have a discord server for the game where we post notes and stuff
>Have the genius idea of letting players "play out" the moments of peace, study, introspection, investigation, etc. between sessions on discord
>Wake up to multiple paragraphs of fluid drenched ERP
I brought this upon myself.
Should I post the highlights?

>>96057687
So does every other combat build. TTRPG combat in general is about who can game the action economy the hardest.

>>96057733
>Should I post the highlights?
Yes

>>96057699
I'm gonna say a 9. Asian and long lengs.

>>96057673
They have celerity in clan so usually quite fast.

>>96057733
>Should I post the highlights?
Please.

>>96057733
Thirded. I am not ashamed to admit every time I see how shit someone else's group is the more proud of my own I become.

>>96057805
This.

>>96057805
That's one of the things which I get out of /tg/ also.

>>96057733
I'll be the wet-blanket here, but personally, I wouldn't do that without at least clearing whether the players care. Issues of trust with/within the group. Don't know if the discord was public, but anyway, some players expect a modicum of privacy ("what happens at the table stays at the table").

>>96057805
Can't say my group is shit. They're actually great.
I just didn't expect them to do this when I told them to write their characters' downtime.
>>96058085
Maybe I should ask them for permission. Or at least censor the names.

>>96058085
If one of my friends does something stupid and embarrassing, I'm telling everybody, and if possible, making sure they're there to be embarrassed. That's how friendship works anon.
>>96058207
>Or at least censor the names
Absolutely do this. Your post will get deleted if a janny thinks you're doxxing yourself.

Do vampire fluids sill blood bond people even when blush of life is active?

>>96059509
All body fluids are replaced with blood post-embrace. Blush of life doesn't revert this.
You need something stronger, like corpse in the monster 5, to produce normal sweat/tears/etc.

>>96054417
>I once asked this very question to a knowledgeable sluagh
Was she cute?

>>96059751
>Was she cute?
Her mortal appearance was very pretty; I never saw her fae appearance.

>>96057763
No, I mean they might not exist with the same mechanics if you're using Revised. They also seem to be left out of W20.

>>96059779
>They also seem to be left out of W20.
Given how bare-bones what we get in W20 changing breeds is, you kinda have to port forward stuff from the breedbooks to not have one-note caricatures anyway.

>>96043500
>>96043522
This discussion had me look into the possessed book and I found something that no one seems to bring up. It says that your permanent autonomy is capped at 9 and your willpower can never be higher than your autonomy rating. I know there is temporary autonomy rating that seems to work similar to torment, but it seems incredibly easy to just permanently tank your willpower while you are possessed. Meaning that even in the best case scenario you can never reach your mental peak. Given how many things want to mindfuck you and you are looking to gain power from the biggest mindfuckers this seems like a very bad long term strategy.

>>96059905
>. Given how many things want to mindfuck you and you are looking to gain power from the biggest mindfuckers this seems like a very bad long term strategy.
That is the point for the most part. Sure there are ways to bullshit your way into mutuality but those are outside the scope of the Possesed.

>>96059932
>That is the point for the most part. Sure there are ways to bullshit your way into mutuality but those are outside the scope of the Possesed.
Its the point, but I have never seen it brought up before so its a case of mechanics actually enforcing themes that people never paid attention to.

>>96059952
>Its the point, but I have never seen it brought up before so its a case of mechanics actually enforcing themes that people never paid attention to.
It is because the track record of WW games is so shit it is not even funny.

>>96055001
>Wizards of the Coast, where she served as Vice President of Franchise and Product for DUNGEONS & DRAGONS, following years of franchise creative direction for Magic: The Gathering
Worst possible person to have in charge of anything remotely related to WoD. D&Dfags and MtGfags trying to imposed their notions on WoD since 2e are cancer as it is, and that's their soulless corpo version, which is like 10000x worse and with the actual authority.

>>96059905
>It says that your permanent autonomy is capped at 9
Er, that's not technically true. There are ways to break that "cap". There are also a number of ways to break willpower caps to get willpower into the 16+ range.
Besides, you also just don't have to lose autonomy, ever. You can buy powers with taints and spirits can't force you to give up your free will. Every method of losing autonomy is something the host has to opt into.

>>96059952
>its a case of mechanics actually enforcing themes
Everything in WoD is like this anon. People keep trying fuck with generation, but generation exists specifically to enforce the themes of VtM, that your potential is capped by things outside your control, some people are born luckier than you, and one of the few ways to progress in a broken system is to be more of a monster than the competition.

>>96060043
>There are ways to break that "cap"
You got an example? Also if the autonomy rating is still lower than what breaking the normal willpower cap is then you are still capped by the autonomy score.

>>96060071
>People keep trying fuck with generation, but generation exists specifically to enforce the themes of VtM
The difference here is that generation is something that players and people in world try all sorts of methods to reduce and compare one another with so its still doing its function as its being acknowledged. Autonomy is almost never mentioned beyond being some minor quirk that has no effect even though in its typical best case it lowers the maximum of the most important stat in the game. Ferectoi are also total jokes in the book considering their autonomy is capped to 5. making them ironically way weaker than your average fomori as they do not have the autonomy to sacrifice for more powers and can only have 5 willpower max making them total supernatural pushovers which goes against their proclaimed alpha status.

>>96059860
>Given how bare-bones what we get in W20 changing breeds is,
What kinds of things are missing?

>>96060071
The generation thing wouldn't so bad if it was rolled, not bought at chargen and 6+ faggotry wasn't a thing, but it's still a questionable decision to enforce the niche theme everywhere.
Not every game of werewolf has fuck dat wolf or Gaia will DIIIIE theme, not every mage game is about repeatedly getting kicked in the dick by reality rather than getting to do anything fun.

>>96059860
>>96060120
>Given how bare-bones what we get in W20 changing breeds is, you kinda have to port forward stuff from the breedbooks to not have one-note caricatures anyway.
You're saying that as if revised CB, or, heck Forsaken CB that triggers furfags to this very day was much better.

>>96060117
>You got an example?
Gorgons. They can buy autonomy 10 explicitly in their section. The only thing they need to do is ask the wyld for free will(which they can do any time, this isn't a "you need to go on a quest" thing), which the wyld will pretty much always allow because it's the wyld and loves that chaos shit.
> Also if the autonomy rating is still lower than what breaking the normal willpower cap
Doesn't matter at all. The way you break the willpower cap is via one of the stats that adds to willpower for all purposes(including resisting mind control), but isn't willpower.
These include true faith, being investments, a wendigo gift, etc. That last one is a thing possessed can manifest as an innate power via the "spirit gift" ability.

>>96060180
Anon, that has nothing to do with what I was saying and you know it. I was saying you need to port from the breedbooks. Doesn't matter which CB book you think is best, you still need to port from the breedbooks.

>>96060204
Its not possible to be a gorgon as a human as far as I know so for a person wanting to go the possessed route that does not really work. Kami don't have an autonomy score but obviously making deals with demons and such is not going to have you aligned with gaia for very long.

>>96060218
For fuck sake, anon, I'm saying the same goddamn thing, that no matter the edition and game CB is shit for anything but cursory overview and you hafta use breed books to play for real.

>>96060239
Ah, I apologize. This thread has conditioned me to assume any semi-sarcastic response is an anon trying to start an argument.

>>96060231
>Its not possible to be a gorgon as a human as far as I know
Which is weird given there's an entire type of possessed that can only work as possessed humans, the neied. The literal story text for them has a werewolf encounter a possessed human.

Fresh Bread
>>96037167 (OP)
>>96037167 (OP)
>>96037167 (OP)

>>96060285

>>96060285

>>96060285
Real link for new thread:
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>>96060290
Shit
>>96060276
>>96060276
>>96060276
actual thread

>>96060285
I didn't even know that you could do that.