Thread 96048855

The Missing edition

Previous Heresy:
>>96042480

>HH 3.0 Leaks
https://imgur.com/a/C7NLFxm
https://imgur.com/a/ThwkCe3
https://imgur.com/a/8oqENvc

>New Edition Soon™
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/setting/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/

>New to The Horus Heresy? Here’s Everything You’ll Need to Get Started
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/05/30/new-to-the-horus-heresy-heres-everything-youll-need-to-get-started/
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>Thread FAQ (very old, remembers Age of Terra)
https://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8
https://pastebin.com/8riDmnhS
>30k TACTICA & TIPS
https://pastebin.com/Tm2P4QLp
https://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Age_of_Darkness-Warhammer_30k/2.0_Tactics/General_Tactics

>MEGAs are down for the time being, going to wait for things to cooldown with the new edition and leaks before bringing them back up

『Adeptus Titanicus and Legions Imperialis』
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/legions-imperialis/
>List of Titan Legions with Badges and Colours
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17Jccq0V--SwJifLVLwbisYnQeqLlS2pMSiPbGXp1Brs/htmlview
>More lists
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_Titan_Legions
>What size magnets do I need?
5x1mm
>Tactics
https://1d6chan.miraheze.orug/wiki/Adeptus_Titanicus/Tactics

>Thread Question:
What's the damage?

>>96048855 (OP)
>tq
Mental, hhg has somehow gotten more illiterate after 2.0

>>96048876
I feel like this is appropriate for last thread

>>96048855 (OP)
>What's the damage?
morale
it feels wrong
even if they fix it then they will throw it all to the garbage in 3 years and the cycle will start again

>>96048855 (OP)
>What's the damage?
Terrible, terrible.

>>96048855 (OP)
Liber leaks don't look great.
Formatting is at least three steps down from 2.0, probably the biggest loser.

>Raven Guard has 1 gimmick (plus Corax's)
>Space Wolves have 2
Eh, No Prey Escapes kinda sucks, but still. Why? I don't think Russ is somehow now going to have a gimmick of his own.

>>96048855 (OP)
>What's the damage?
The truth is worse than our fears. GW apparently has to sell you the ability to kitbash now via journals. Legion rules are all over the place. Formatting is terrible, illiteracy aside.

Can't wait for rotor spam IF, gunline RG, and ultra scoring IH.

Corax LOST
DG LOST
WE LOST
AA sgts LOST
XIXth WON

>TQ
Melee Veterans being forced to take jump packs is pretty lame. Should've been the age-old Vanguard/Sternguard split, where Vanguard are baseline on-foot but can take jump packs. Also, autocannons have gone up 15 points (but that may not be so bad, depending on how they work in 3.0). Otherwise, nothing directly affects me so far (that said, being a Thousand Sons player, Pavoni going from +3" to a Move action to a +2 Toughness reaction is... not something I'm in favor of, and if the Raven Guard and Space Wolves leaks are anything to go by, I may not have a lot to look forward to).

Slurp it up boys

>>96048855 (OP)
>What's the damage?
Core rules look fine. Army rules not so much.

>>96048925
>Thousand Sons player, Pavoni going
What the fuck? Didn't know we got TS leaks too. I loved the extra move.

give me phalanx wardens and piss armory now!
please

I jerk off to doomposts and salt btw

Anyone got drop pods? Are they cooked?

DAMAGE REPORT

ALL LEGIONS REPORT IN

SALAMANDERS ARE AWAITING FURTHER INTEL

>>96048955
WORD BEARERS AWAIT FAITHFULLY

>>96048943
Not a leak, just a throw-away line in an article last week.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/lunnztux/faction-focus-traitor-astartes/
>My favourite Unit so far is the Thousand Sons Saturnine Dreadnought and taking one of these with the Pavoni Prosperine Arcana is great. At the cost of a Reaction Point, you can use the Stoneform Psychic Reaction to give the model +2 Toughness for the remainder of the Shooting sub-phase, making it a mighty Toughness 10. Add to that its thermal diffraction field and you have even lascannon and multi-meltas wounding it on 6s. This is great until Perils of the Warp inevitably removes its last wound and it explodes… but at least it goes out doing what it loves: channeling uncontrollable amounts of Warp energy.
It's one of those things where it sounds like a cool ability, but the fact that it costs a Reaction point in addition to needing to pass a Psychic Check is pretty lame. Granted, it lasts longer than just a standard Reaction, so there's at least that going for it, whereas all non-Psychic Reactions (IIRC) are used and that's it.

>>96048855 (OP)
>TQ
After two decades of HH Scouts, I guess they no longer are a thing because GW can't be arsed.

>>96048916
>XIXth WON
You mean ranged RG won. I remember their 40k 8E supplement said their 9th company was full of air-deployed HSS + Rifleman Dreads. The Dirgesingers
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/9th_Company_(Raven_Guard)

i am genuinely impressed that Opae is still a thing, now to pray that inductii aren't just an upgrade keyword that just make squads cheaper when they release the pdf

Do we have any info about EC? in particular about their RoW and Wargear?

>>96048961
WB get +1 to combat resolution as a trait
Nothing more

>>96048964
They might’ve been folded back into Recon like 1.0.

>>96048876
>>96048884
I blame tourists and 40k refugees.

>>96048855 (OP)
>tq
I replaced the valve covers and spark plugs in my car because there was a leak, I fucked up somewhere putting everything back together and now my car's running worse, also destroyers aren't in the Liber.
I'm not having a good week :(

>>96048925
what if non jump squad melee veterans are on the legacies pdf?

>>96048955
>SALAMANDERS ARE AWAITING FURTHER INTEL
The LC seems pretty good.

Can only be wounded on 3+ no matter what, ignore panic from flame weapons.
Drakescale shields reduce damage from all the weapons they used to have a trait against to 1, so no melta oneshotting fire drakes.

>>96048979
Nothing for traitors, only loyalist liber has leaked so far, I don't even know where from, which is probably intentional

>>96048947
Based.

>>96048979
We know nothing about any traitor legions, leaks are only loyalists.

>>96048981
>>96048964
I'm more inclined to think they'll be legacied, since they've since squatted the models.

Now that we know the libers are doa, how long will it take for the community to make the switch to his edition?

>>96048997
>>96049000
thank you anons

>>96049006
i'd rather play modern 40k than this retard's game

>>96048993
Why?

>>96049006
Buy an ad, faggot

>>96048994
Thanks so much leaker anon. Are the flamers pretty cool?

>>96048980
that's it?
not on failure?
absolute win

>>96049006
I’d rather play 10th Ed.

leakeranon, is hexagrammaton still a thing? DA plasma weapon stats?
also do drop pods just deep strike or do they have their own special rule?

>>96048994
thank you leaker anon. very cool

>>96049006
No one is gonna play some retarded homebrew grabage that a random autistic nobody has made.

>>96049025
It's literally our old trait but worse

Posting tank to hopefully get leakeranon’s attention for IH rules

>>96049013
isn't that the point of legacies, rules for old units? melee vets were pretty popular.

>>96049029

...I am getting flashbacks to the end of Revenge of the Sith with Vader asking about Padme right now.

Anyone got the run down on iron warriors?

>>96049044
gib leaks you can call me whatever you want

>>96049041

Destroyers getting made into legacy units is fucking criminal. Easily one of the cooler unit types in the game.

>>96049041
It's more for things that don't have official models.
non-JP vets are if anything easier to make with an official kit than the jump ones, so shuffling them to Legacies would be a strange move.
Then again, if Jump Packs were still wargear, this wouldn't be an issue.

>>96049046
only loyalist rules so far

>>96049046
uh yeah faggot legion played by people who disappointed their fathers. usually played as loyalist for some reason.

>>96049046
in the gutter if John French had anything to do with rules writing

>>96049046
Autism. You're welcome.

>>96049016
I am not the leaker so im afraid I cant tell you, I just know some leaks. Which are:

>Legion traits

WS get +2" movement
UM get to reduce the cost of a reaction (in terms of "reactions") by one one per turn.
IH are the same as before
IF are the same as before, but only if they fire more than 5 shots with that weapon(?)
Dark angels dont have the whole hexagrammaton trait, instead theyre stubborn now (cant modify their LD, WILL, INT or COOL) but they do gain some funky aux detachments to represent the different wings, which might not need centurions to unlock.
BA are +1 strength on the charge (so a nerf)

>Weapons
Solarite gauntlets are power fists with critical strike(6+)
Dawnbringers have basically the same weapons they had before, theyre I+1, give an S when you charge and have breaching 5+ ap3
Legatine axes are now just s4 power axes with breaching 4+, whether this means theyre functionally unchanged or that they also get i-1 I dont know.
The big kratos volkite is D2

>>96049006
There is no way that a fan adaptation gets enough traction to be universally accepted. Just give up macca, you don’t even play anymore. Now gtfo of this thread

>>96049035
>It's literally our old trait but worse
BRO

>>96049063
> IH the same
This is nothing but an absolute win

>>96049029
The 6 wings are now aux detachments, which have their own benefits. Army-wide rule is basically stubborn for all 4 mental stats. plasma flamer is S5/6 AP4, D1 Breaching 5/6+ with an overload on the max output profile. heavy plasma flamer loses torrent but is a little stronger. TGS is i-1 S+2 AP3 D2 Breaching 5+

Inductii are gone?

>>96049075
> Crying WE tears
Yum yum yum yummy yum yummmmm

>>96049063
>but only if they fire more than 5 shots with that weapon(?)
To elaborate, from what has been said/I understand this doesent mean "the weapon has more than 5 shots" but rather that "attack" (bucket of dice rolled) has 5 or more dice in it. So 4 marines dont get the benefit, but 5 marines do. A heavy bolter on its own wouldnt get the benefit, but a bunch together would.

Oh, IF also lost assault cannons apparently. Theyre BA only now.

>>96049082
PDF soon. In a month I think

>>96049082
Coming in the fall the roadmap mentioned them alread

>>96049079
thanks bro, plasma repeaters no longer a thing?

>>96049078
It will have a much smaller effect now, I feel; with Instant Death being gone. Back in hh2 the IH could shrug off melta and krak shots.

>>96049086
>>96049063
Oh, and another thing.

Storm shields are now 4++ apparently, but they might reduce damage taken.

>>96049082
>Inductii are gone?
they were on a roadmap in a couple of months

>>96049063
glorious, thank you anon!

>>96049089
>>96049088
>>96049091
Ah. Whoops. Didn't see. That sucks, though. Two months away at the very least to use my models that I specifically made as an Inductii squad for my DG. Welp.

>>96049093
I just want to see if ID kinda lives on in negating FNP if it doubles your T value

>>96049086
Idk, this sounds like a miscommunication. Same with losing IAC’s. “+1 Bs, as along as there are X models in the squad” sounds more like a 2.0 rule than a 3.0 rule.

>>96049109
It does not as far as we know.

>>96049078
As the other guy said, since D and S are now decoupled this isnt as relevant as it once was. Reducing S8 to S7 was insane in 2.0 since it meant a meltagun couldnt oneshot a terminator. But now it doesent matter, S9 and S6 are the same when fired at a marine.

Its still definetly a strong trait, will substantially negative small arms fire, but its now insane.
Oh and immortals only have 1w.

I want to give one of my Imperial Fists a snazzy looking Power Fist, how many of you are going to have an autistic meltdown if I use this one?

i don't feel so good looking at them leaks
i've really tried to hype myself, but i just can't, this new edition's not even out and it got me down

>>96049118
Immortals always had 1w, so that’s NBD. How’s the FNP/Toughness/Invuln situation on them?

>>96049124
I am in a constant state of autistic meltdown, so at least one person, yes.

>>96049036
Where is that head from? I like it.

how's the arquitor looking? morbus bombard useful? phosphex still a thing?

>>96049117
>“+1 Bs, as along as there are X models in the squad” sounds more like a 2.0 rule than a 3.0 rule.
Not +1 Bs, +1 to hit with an attack using bolt or auto weapons provided its 5 or more.

But sure, it could be wrong, although what the leaker has said otherwise seems generally accurate. Details could be wrong since its just a guy skimming the book.

Oh another thing
>crusader brethren
Same as before statwise and equipment wise. Can still take plasma pistoles each at +10ppm. Get a bonus to charge distance after disembarking (instead of furious charge?)

>>96049124
I'm going to have one regardless (waiting on Liber Hereticus to doompost in full)

>>96049092
We don't know.

>>96049079
They have better flamers than Sallies?

>>96049136
The whole guy is from the old Space Marine Tank crew kit from FW. Bunch of recasters have it, thankfully

>>96049125
>soberanon in the thread
Hell yeah bro

>>96049063
UM trait is simple and strong, just how the primarch would want it

Decurions better be "take a normal centurion in a tank and fill a command slot" or I swear to fucking god

>>96049135
Welcome to the club brother

>>96049109
It does not, weve seen FnP and shooting

>>96049145
they always did. But only on like their specialty unit. Anyone else needs to pay out the nose for it

>>96049160
Better get ready to swear bro

>>96049079
Stubborn feels like a huge fucking downgrade for the main crusade and apex detachments (i.e. most HQ and troop options). Fingers crossed for the aux detachments

I would like to extend a heartfelt message to every single person working at Games Workshop!

>>96049075
Question was about WB not WE

>>96049184
It means you can tell night lords to get fucked and also not run from combat. Thats pretty nice

>>96049141
>bonus to charge distance after disembark

I think this is meant to replace their crusader rule, which is nice since you can’t sweep anymore. Shame about no FC but I always ran mine with a biomancy librarian anyway.

>>96048855 (OP)
>finally got rid of Destroyers
Sasuga GW-sama I kneel. Finally, someone else realizes this entire unit concept was retarded, which is why every other legion unique "destroyer" is just a TSS or Assault Vet Squad with rad grenades

>>96049187
I am saying that, since the WE trait could be seen as a worse sidegrade of their 1.0 version, the WB dissappoint you as well.

>>96049227
But +1 to combat res is better than the 2.0 WB trait. It's worse than the old 1.0 WB trait, but the WE trait is better than the old 1.0 WE trait, so they're not the same.

>>96049201
Bro if the Dark Angel legion rules are written just to negate the benefits of the Night Lord legion rules then that is objectively awful. Will avoid boiling my piss until I see the whole thing

>>96049227
idk never being able to lose combat or fall back feels pretty damn good

>>96048955
IRON WARRIORS BRACING FOR THE WORST

I'm really hoping that the UM one isn't true. Going from "Hey! You have to think tactically about unit positioning and firing order" to "yeah, reactions are cheaper for you" hurts my soul.

>>96049240
>a half vexilla is better than stubborn

>>96049245
its not only that, but anything that reduces your mental stats, like the sicaran punisher. Also remember that it affects leadership checks for melee as well. And anything that can reduce your librarian's willpower for psychic tests. I can't believe I have to convince a retard that having army-wide stubborn plus an extra aux wing rule is a good thing

>>96049118
>>96049093
Nope, IH are definitely absolutely busted in HH3.
We've already seen melee is not getting saved by libers so it's a pure shooting edition.
Tacticals and small-arms were made massively more important with 3 shots each that would almost never happen pre-buff and the victory points rewards spamming them. Most all small arms to medium arms like disintegrators and flamers gonna be dogshit against IH.
Meltas were nerfed into the ground, so making them Strength 7 makes them literally unable to even glance a landraider on any dice roll even within 1" and need 6s to land on a basic predator. Whole lot of anti-tank butchered, like saturnine termies become S6 and predator front is literally immune to them.
10 lascannons that walked normally avg 5 wounds and 38% to tap a predator. After losing 1 strength it's 3 avg wounds and 7% to tap a predator with 10 walking lascannons. You even have 30% chance to fail with 10 stationaries against a basic pred. Non-IH only 5% chance predator survives.

Alright /hhg/, on a scale of Erebus to 10, what do you rate the new edition?

>went to the end of the previous thread
>found stats for terminator weapons

>>96048956
>>96049159
thank you anon, very cool

>>96049118
Proof?
Post the pages nigga

>>96049276
Much like a choir boy, it's unnervingly close to Erebus

>>96049165
Show me FNP

How much do people think the splits for the box will cost?
10x Mark II
1x Saturine Dread
etc...

Loyalty? Yeah, I'm thinking it's its own reward.

>>96049125
yeah, the only reason shills have literally nothing good to say about this edition is that it's not "1 step forward, 2 steps backwards"
it's "0 steps forward, 25 steps backwards"

I sigh in relief when I read a unit's page and it hasn't become worse, but nothing has Improved. Then every other page is something being made worse than before.

>>96049255
Iron Within, Iron Without (any good rules) Brother.

>>96049265
IH rule applies to vehicles for the first time ever???

Man, I wish they would give critical (6+) and breaching (6+) to Phoenix weapons. At least give us a chance to kill someone before getting wrecked by terranic greatswhords and GFBs.

>>96049261
I'm too stubborn to be convinced of anything

>>96049289
FNP is exactly the same as before except you don't lose it for high strength attacks. It's just the warhammer40k FNP rule.

>>96049276
My only losses is "despoiler" vets not having rules in liber (very easy transition since I can just say their vexillas are banners and call them command squads which axtually makes them easier to run instead of harder since i can take all 3 in one detachment), my terminator primus medicae and forge lords (PA versions can just be apothecary and techmarine), and unfortunately the armistos I just built.

>>96049289
>>96049279
NTA, but here is FNP. The imgur albums in the OP have the rest of the USRs. Instant Death is nowhere to be seen (unless I'm blind)

>>96049255
Watch it be +1 strength versus buildings because IW are popular and GW wants you to have to buy a whole new ravenguard/IH army instead.

No Model No Rules
No Model No Rules
No Model No Rules
No Model No Rules
No Model No Rules
No Model No Rules

>>96049335
Templar Brethren

>>96049335
Can you show me the Veteran Assault Kit with 10 Thunder hammers in it?

>>96049335
Legacies
I don't understand why 40k newfags have to bring up their system's flaws here.

>>96049240
>But +1 to combat res is better than the 2.0 WB trait
Feels like upgrading their 2.0 conditional +1 to combat res (only on ties) to full +1 combat res shouldn't be too much to ask.

>>96049335
go back to 40k you tourist

>>96049276
I think its hard to tell so far, but theres ups and downs.

Weapon balance generally seems pretty good, lots of nerfs where needed and there isnt some stupid bullshit that weve seen (so far). Legion weapons are good but not gamebreaking and in general a lot of the nastiest shit is gone.
Units lost a lot of options though, loadouts for special units are limited to whats in the box and the vanilla units also lost lots of options here and there.
Wider things like "is melee in any way viable" and "are vehicles good now" and "is melta trash or imba" will have to be seen.

Ravenguard are probably the new aids though.

>>96049357
First they came for Fantasy Battles
And I did not speak for I do not play Fantasy Battles
Then they came for 40K
And I did not speak for I do not play 40K
Then they came for Kill Team
And I did not speak for I do not play Kill Team
Then they came for Epic
And I did not speak for I do not play Epic
Then they came for Heresy
And there was no one left to speak for me

>>96049350
You buy 5 of these like a good little paypig.
https://www.warhammer.com/en-US/shop/legion-astartes-melee-weapons-upgrade-2024

>>96049392
By this logic Mor Deythan should have kept combi options.

>>96049335
Show me where is combi weapons or shotguns tactical veteran kit. Hell show me any veteran kit.

>>96049387
There's doomposting and there's retardation, you're in the retard zone

>>96049006
I will try it. If it is good I will play it consistently. If it is bad it will be hysterically funny. There is no downside.

>>96049406
This is what you get for using rending with combi-volkites

>>96049255
High Cool

>>96049063
>IH are the same as before
>The same legion trait for 3 editions.
Never improve upon perfection.

>>96049276
Lorgar

>>96048994
How are Dark Angels Anon? Do we keep the wings?

>>96049424
"yes"

You only have one legion trait (stubborn). But you get special aux detachments for each wing, which as far as I understand dont require centurion tax to use.
No more +1 to hit with swords though, deathwing players in shambles (unless its a special rule somewhere else and it just hasnt been mentioned)

>>96049410
You must be new here
We're all retarded

>>96049421
It doesent affect vehicles at all now though.

>>96049157
I do rather like it. Its very flavorful, the ultras arent actually objectively better at anything, but theyre tactically flexible and just "do things" which makes them flexible and creates power from nothing. Its a good way of showing tactical skill and flexibility without making units just better.

>>96049257
It really does. It's a good trait but it's too passive and depends exclusively on what the enemy does...

Wonder if Alpha Legion rules are going to be changed.

Rewards of treachery was just fantastic, but every AL player now has loads of random squads they need to make use of, feels a bit as if GW don't have the space to change that.

The +2 inches was so thematic but a bit busted. Parking some marines in a patch of rough ground and having enemies fail their charge whilst literally standing on top of them because you have to beat 4 inches never ever got old.

>>96049474
It could work as a prime benefit?

>>96048855 (OP)
>Make pistols assault weapons
>You can effectively shoot 4 times per model if you are charging with 2 pistols
>Remove destroyers
>No other units seem able to take 2 pistols
What did GW mean by this?

>>96048889
>>96049276
Frost blades are HQ weapons, and will be S+3 D2 Ap2 with I -2 with reaping blow in 3.0
Meanwhile, Power Scythes are mere sergeant weapons and went from S+1 AP2 power fist equivalents to S+2 AP3 Rend6+ enhanced power mauls.

DG will be lucky if their scythes become S+2 AP3 D2 Rend 5 Reaping in 3.0, and will have to see the furfag Praetor wield his own improved scythe with +1S and full AP2, while they also get a copy of their Remorseless Advance reaction

Sigismund

Tactical Vets were basically everything I wanted; just line troops that are really good at shooting that can take funny weapon loadouts. Being able to do weird shit like bringing 8 disintegrator rifles and 2 plasma cannons to go marine hunting or keeping them all with bolters but giving them 2 lascannons to be roadbump threat to vehicles is fun.

>>96049474
>every AL player now has loads of random squads they need to make use of
I mean, you can take up to 50% of allies of any legion, just needs some optae to lead them with the logistical prime benefit
Everyone is AL now
Everyone moves and shots heavy weapons
Everyone has chainaxes
This truly is the edition where we steal from traitors

>>96049495
Slayer of kings is interesting. But otherwise he is deeply unimpressive, especially compared to before. Definetly something you can make a guy to beat.

>>96049491
and Reaping sucks now. You have to be outnumbered (and your bulky terminators count as multiple models for reaping so even 5 vs 10 despoilers you're not getting any bonus attack)

>>96049495
>D1
They really want you to suffer through the challenge bullshit, don't they?

>>96049006
After what GW did to Destroyers and Vets, I'm looking forward to his edition. I'm serious.

>>96049510
Just bring a saturnine praetor with the hammer, take the +1 damage gambit and crit. D5.

>>96049441
>No more +1 to hit with swords though, deathwing players in shambles (unless its a special rule somewhere else and it just hasnt been mentioned)
Allegedly each legion has their unique Prime benefits, which may or may not be tied to their Unique Detachments.
I mean, that was the whole excuse as for why the actual Rites of War got deleted; that you'd get to keep the [FOC modification + extra rule] that characterised them.
Have we seen any yet?

>>96049495
Where are you getting these leaks from?

>>96049276
Game itself seems playable
Loss of wargear and units is gay
Legion traits seem mostly fine so far with a few outliers, lower impact than last edition for sure though

Overall I give it a NeedToPlayAGame/10

>>96049497
Are these a different unit from Veterans as we know them in 2.0? Or is 3.0 just renaming them?

>>96049506
>deeply unimpressive
I mean, that's a bunch of attacks that auto-wound on 5s to hit and have ap2, D2 at Initiative 7
It's not that bad

>>96049506
do the legion tacticas
it will drive us nuts

>>96049420
Honestly fine with this

>>96048934
except today's leaks came from a discord or something. they were just being reposted here

>>96049506
Saturnine praetor will toast this loser lmao.

>>96049474
>The +2 inches was so thematic but a bit busted.
"May only be hit with snapshots" was the thing I expected would go to the AL, not gonna lie. I think they'll just give them the RG's own discarded Infiltrator Legion niche and be done with them

>>96048997
>>96049000
Traitor OPSEC > Loyalist OPSEC

>>96049517
From the SW leaks it doesn't seem like it

>>96049535
>ackshually
Slurp it up

>>96049323
Have we seen the to-wound chart yet? My friend and I play with a house rule where if you exceed the 2+ to wound criteria you impose -1 penalty to armour saves and deal an extra wound.

>>96049521
It’s a GW employee most likely; every screenshot of these profiles has been of stuff they’ve already reported on in the articles. All the Raven Guard stuff, which have specifically been units that were mentioned for one person’s army to shift from 2.0 to 3.0, and now Sigismund when he was one of the first unique characters we got a peek at.
>>96049527
2.0 vets have BS4 WS5 and can all take power weapons whereas the new tactical vets have BS5 WS4 and cant take power weapons but have more varied access to special weapons along with being line by default. It’s more than just a spin.

>>96049517
>Have we seen any yet?
Rg have wraiths, which means if you rush(run?) and pass a WP check all charges against the unit next turn are disordered automatically.

>>96049521
The leaker? Like all the other leaks.

>>96049531
I dont have it, wait till tomorrow morning when it should be out.

>>96049530
Sure, but in the grand scheme of things it doesent seem like that much. And its only in challenges, imagine sigismund trying to cut his way through a unit.

>>96049521
Are you retarded? He's an anonymous informant you narc

>>96049506
Took them a full edition to fix the fact that you could push a nameless sergeant into the Sigismund woodchipper while you went to town on the rest of the squad lmao

>>96049357
40k Derangement Syndrome

>>96049546
SW leak didn't include the armory, for whatever reason they put the unique prime slots in there. RG primes get to be wraiths

>>96049560
>wrong pic

Oh, dawnbreakers. They still have 2+ armor btw (everything that had it, AA sgts asides, still does)

>>96049540

Yeah the RG rules seemed really out of whack to me. This is a Legion who's sole contribution to the Heresy is getting gunned down at Istvaan V, and a Mary Sue character killing Lucius. That to me doesn't imply anything along the lines of 'our optics are distorted so we can't hit them as effectively'.

Also I have a funny feeling that Dark Furies are going to be absolutely unstoppable with being harder to hit. They were already a giant, speedy, deathstar.

>>96049495
>>96049506
>Sigismund gutted, no longer the insta-kill melee machine
Pissbois in shambles.

>>96049555
>Any model with the Command subtype may swap his power weapon for a power spear that has no +1 Init, with an anti-synergy on the charge because Breaching 5+ overlaps with Impact (AP2)
Who writes this shit? For real. Do you expect even an Optae to wield this instead of a Power fist?

>>96049577
Good, now he cant onetap my guys without being onetapped himself

>>96049540
>"May only be hit with snapshots" was the thing I expected would go to the AL

Nah that isn't AL at all, they're infiltrating spec-ops not sneaky beaky

>Grok make me a image of a book page of new Horus heresy rules, as if taken with an iphone, and add shapes to the corners as of the lighting is bad.
>Make the rules water tight.

Mr leaker can i see the Iron Hands rules

>>96049577
Hes still a decent fighter mind you, dont let my shitting on him fool you. He just isnt 2.0 sigismund.

The new monster is (probably) abbadon, if Gws shitty shorts are anything to go by. Lots of wounds, eternal warrior, and he can hit for 4+ damage if he gets a shred with the power claw. If hes Ws7 then its just everything combined.

Any news on Sons of Horus? I've been sorely tempted to start an army for the new edition but the old rules never really clicked for me - the reaction felt awkward to use and the legion bonus never really seemed to be something you had to play into.

I mean, surely, suuuureelllyyyy, reavers are going to get fixed?

>only loyalists getting leaks
It ain't fucking fair.

>>96049554
Cool, I always wanted BS5 Vets

>>96049601
No news on any heretic legions. Only the liber astartes was leaked.

>>96049602
It lets us live in hope for a while more, until we learn raptors are locked to power weapons only, our legion trait is fear(1) and nostraman chain weapons are rending(6+) ap3.

>>96049598
/hhg/ is for once not the source of the leaks, unless there's multiple leakers out there

incredible that Pardo from SN snitched out the discord leaker

The internet as a whole is now entering CRITICAL MELTDOWN due to the libers leaks. This will be interesting to see how this unfolds. How do things look? Grim.

>>96049610
I wonder what the difference between the BS 5 veterans and seekers is gonna be

When will GW give me shotgun bits god damnit.

>>96049622
Stop speaking like you're on drama alert you fucking retard

>>96049620
Fucking Kek no way

>>96049618
I'm leaking right now

what's a man gotta do to see some corswain right now mr leaker?

>>96049629
Should’ve bought more Deathwatch Vets. Too bad the kit is being taken out back and shot.

>>96049636
he's a tremendous shill who's always begging for money on his channel. I bet saturday was supposed to be a big payday for him

>>96049630
I never wanted this…

>>96049599
Yea, having rewatched it he seems to have done 4 (or more) wounds on a shred using a gambit that only lets you make 1 attack, and given he hit someone using guard up hes probably ws7. So unless GW got the rules wrong or fudged things (always possible) abbadon is going to be a fucking beast.

>>96049620
Whatever you do, do not laugh react on Facebook or he will make you explain yourself before blocking you

>>96049620
And was smug about it

>>96049640
well fuck me then. take it away.

>>96049620
Vicky Pardo

>>96049597
I got iron warriors rules here

>>96049620
"But if the rules leak why would anyone pay for out patreon"

>>96049663
VICHY

Can we get a table of contents for Mars?

>>96049655
little pardo and big macca different sides on the same coin

If you really are here, leaker-kun, can we get legion rules for either Sons of Horus or Word Bearers?

>>96049574
>Prime Benefit - Wraiths: Run, and if you pass a Willpower check, any charges against that unit are Disordered...
Niche
>...but if the WP check is failed, the unit is Stunned
Fuck that
>It doesn't work unless all models in that unit have it, meaning a unit is penalized for having a Centurion unless he also chooses that same Prime Benefit (and Praetors can never have it because High Command doesn't get a Prime)
Absolute low risk crap reward niche garbage. Would take Logistical and Paragon any day of the week over this.
Whoever wrote that is bad and should go to Istvaan V tomorrow

>>96049655
lmao what

>>96049626
Vets can't take nemesis bolters, so probably that

>>96049620
Link?

>>96049626
Veterans get to take a Disintegrator each, Seekers only a combi-disnuts on the sergeant :^)

>>96049700
The thing is, you have to compare it to combat veterans in the context of RG. corax makes all your troops prime slots in the main detachment, so thats a lot of benefits you need to fill out.

>>96049400
Tell me about your custom LGS rules, anon

>>96049710
>Vets can’t take Nemesis Bolters
Based!!

>>96049668
Outstanding move

Nemesis bolters

Range 48"
S 4
Ap 5
Breaching 5+
Heavy(Fp) (extra shot)
Precision 4+

Seems really good, mors deythan will be absolute nightmares. Firing two shots each, critting on 5s with breaching. Say goodbye to your praetor.

>>96049716
Seekers also could take combi weapons in 2.0, the combi-disintegrator has been turned into a general combi weapon option.

>>96049668
>Legiones Astames abilirys other olser, at mnas leeneftco remberivuts arter leld an en aunas toguanes tiodá dunua las prom dies vegulmarsu destó et einndander.
This is High Gothic

>>96049647
What a loser

>>96049714
happened on the age of darkness discord. pardo showed up with a fresh account out of nowhere, the leaker immediately bounces, mods cover for him

>>96049700
I could be jumping the gun but that on a 20 man squad of breachers with volkite could be a pain in the ass for the enemy
>roll up and sit them on an objective
>shields stop them from getting disintegrated (assuming they’re still invulns) and blasted by tanks
>volkite lets them melt any fodder sent their way
>if you send in melee to try and chop away and displace them they do some black magic shit and make you a shitty attacker and buy time for a dark fury squad to drop kick the enemy away from them
Again maybe I’m just too hopeful but there’s potential application

>>96049724
See here >>96049553

Do we know the stats of the autocannon? Is it still just the stepchild that no one really invests in?

>>96049719
Desu I think that's just going to be a thing every primarch does, if you fill your primary with (insert troop type) everyone gets to be a prime slot

>>96049762
We know they cost 20 points each

>>96049599
question isnt it sig is Okay, it's if it's 250 points okay, considering he'll get buttblasted by any primarch he fights (has to choose between a dmg1 toy sword or enemy primarch pretty much automatically attacking) and can't even challenge enemy units that only have a sergeant. If he has only 4 wounds and doesn't heal every turn, it's not good for him to let an enemy character go first and knock 2 wounds off him. If he kills some 150 point character, loses 2 wounds, then the next 150 point character just insta-kills sigismund using go-first, that's 250 points traded for 150 in addition to not having any sort of army buff to anything.

Sigismund's entire role seems to not be slaying enemy kings (he sucks at that), but instead as the bully of mids. Might be okay against someone who brings 6 barebones weak HQs for some dumb detachment reason, as he might still eliminate them even with a dmg 1 sword. But I can't imagine he gets to more than 2 of those fights in a game that's only 4 turns long. Anyone is going to intentionally just bury sigismund in roadblocks, empty rhinos, sergeant-only squads you can't challenge, walk away from him or jump on him with a primarch that sigismund is mandatory-graped by with no option to hide.

Also, he's 250 points and a 7 move footslogger with no bonuses to charging. Unlike someone like eidolon who is going 12-14" and charges with 4-5" setup instead of 3".

>>96049760
I don't think breachers can run

>>96049647
The funny part is that he isn't a GW shill, he constantly criticizes GW in really blunt ways. I was legitimately surprised they gave him advance copies for some of the insults he throws at them and he plays with house rules. That said begging for money with a table in the background that has a dozen wrecked resin tanks and knights will always make me laugh.

>>96049736
Critting on 2+ once per game thanks to bs7. Potentially 40 damage.

>>96049736
Thats good against low level characters but I don't think you're gonna kill predators that easily
Weird that they dont have pinning

>>96049668
It's over . . .

>>96049788
When I was reading the wraith's thing I completely glanced over the making a rush move part.
>I'm now one of the thread retard reactionaries
Put a bullet in my brain desu

>>96049780
>As much as a plasma cannon
Just what are autocannons going to do?! :O

>>96049804
Unimpressive comoared to the 60 potential damage of 20 tacticals

>>96049806
They do, I forgot to mention it. Pinning(1)

>>96049806
>I don't think you're gonna kill predators that easily
Praetors are only 4 wounds, mors deythan will absolutely kill a praetor, even a saturnine praetor, in one fatal strike.

>>96049783
>Sigismund's entire role seems to not be slaying enemy kings (he sucks at that), but instead as the bully of mids.

Kinda what he did at the Palace, no?

>>96049804
BS7 Crits on 5

>>96049392
Can you show me thr combiweapon kit that veterans can still take? Or chainaxes for sergeants that can't be bought anywhere?

>>96049783
>the bully of mids
Anyone Optae-level and above is considered to be a king, king. This is Herohammer.

>>96049820
That damage isn't at 48" AP2 Damage 2 with precision that automatically wounds on a 2+ *to hit*.

>>96049757
We know the books are out there. It's only a matter of time. Suck a fat one Pardo

>>96049620
Who?

>>96049833
Who is this Pardo?

>>96049826
I was lied to on the Internet. Someone said they're like snap shots in reverse or something. That's better but will still auto delete any character outside a Primarch.

>>96049783
I mean, even just using his gambit (which isnt very good) he does like 3 wounds through a 4++ vs anyone ws6 and lower. And he probably goes first since he has DE(2).

Hes not bad, he can definetly bully most consuls, but he will probably eat shit vs the big dogs.

>>96049620
>Pardo from SN
What is Sábrique Nationale?

I've seen them mentioned a couple times but are there any pictures for the Dark Angels rules yet?

>>96049668
Somehow still more readable.

>>96049830
>I am Sigismund, slayer of kings
>"Who did you kill?"
>"I resurrected Abaddon's human daddy and killed him a 2nd time!"

>>96049808
It's fine, anon. I'm just trying to come up with a unit that has both Run and yet is also in danger of being charged the very next turn. Like, what's the point of running full speed if you get assaulted the next turn? And then you use a pseudo-psychic power to mitigate that (but if you fail, you get Stunned and fight last)?

>>96049841
that assumes sigismund has his weapon stats and the enemy consul has no weapon stats. If the enemy consul just grabs duelists edge on his own weapon, then sigismund simply goes last and isn't even special. Losing like 2 wounds then dealing 3 wounds wouldn't be a victory when you cost 250 points and footslog so that's about your game finished after that one fight.

>>96049843
No, but the leaker is legit and outside of him getting something wrong because he was skim-reading I see no reason to doubt anything he said.

>>96049757
Somebody called him a nigger and he logged out.

>>96049857
It, like many RG rules of editions past and other games, is good outside it's intended purpose. You sprint a squad in front of something you want to protect from melee to be a tarpit.

>>96049866
>and the enemy consul has no weapon stats
I mean he probably has what, a power fist? thunder hammer? some bespoke legion weapon? I doubt youre putting charnabal weapons on regular characters, seems a waste.

>2 wounds to sigismund
3 attacks = 1 hit vs ws7 with anything short of a prime slot upgraded champion (assuming those are still ws6). Sigismund still has a 4++. You would need 4 Ap2 hits (or something with very high damage) to get through and deal that much damage.

Is it possible siggypiggy whiffs and the consul gets a strike? Sure. Maybe a divination librarian that has free duelists edge(2) built in, maybe even one using the divination gambit that means you always hit on 2s? But realistically he just goes first and kills the enemy centurion a lot of the time. Hes good at killing low level characters and mobbing him is hard since he picks who he fights.

But when you put him up against something he cant easily kill, or something that has damage 3+? He starts looking a lot worse.

Also his unique gambit is (probably) worse than finishing blow most of the time, S7 D2 (flat) is better than critting on 5s vs 6s

>All these leaks for useless units and legion rules instead of ones like pic related that ACTUALLY matter
Come on now

>>96049869
Too late, Pardo found his house and shot him in the head
Macca was outside rambling like a homeless man that his version is better

Golden Keshig lances:

IM +4
AM 1
SM +5
AP3
D2
Impact (ap)
Armourbane

Golden Keshig have 3 attacks, and seem to use all of them when they charge. So theyre really good.
BUT (and this is a big one), characters can no longer take bikes. None of them, not khan, not praetors, not centurions. Same for jetbikes. So you wont be having someone tag along with the golden keshig.

>>96049700
What does disordered even do now

>>96049932
Iirc? No setup move. No volley fire. I1.

Please put me out of my misery and show the grey slayers page. Show me how they massacred my expensive resin boys

Unless you made a mistake typing that out, AM1 means you only make 1 attack

>>96049940
Power weapons are more limited and more expensive.

>>96049937
so if I disembark a command squad with thunder hammers from a rhino it doesn't matter?

>>96048925
>the age-old Vanguard/Sternguard split,

that's from 5E, it was literally just Veteran Squads before that, they were just a better profile and a USR and for 3E and 4E the profile improvement was just improved Ld and Attacks, for 10 ppm on a unit which was already 3ppm more expensive than Tacticals

5E of course the much-maligned Warddex that everybody hated

>>96049945
Of course they'd do that after making it possible to have full units worth.

Thank you.

>>96049925
>BUT (and this is a big one), characters can no longer take bikes. None of them, not khan, not praetors, not centurions. Same for jetbikes. So you wont be having someone tag along with the golden keshig.
This should sound concerning but in all honesty they're likely just legend options. GW, as slimey as they can be, have outright said in one of their articles that no unit has been truly scrubbed.

Not saying they wouldn't lie, but they'd be stupid for saying that and then doing otherwise.

>>96049925
"AM 1" means the weapon has flat 1 attack, not the models' attack characteristic. That would be "AM A"

>>96049942
So it does, but I dont think thats a mistake, I think thats me not reading it properly. So I guess its still only 1 lance attack each.

>>96049951
You charge a shorter distance, so it sorta does.

>>96049960
Those would be removed options though, not scrubbed units.

>>96049925
Bullshit. Post proof

>>96049960
>Implying you should ever take the PR tram at their word.
Those fuckers have probably never rolled a scatter die in their lives.

>>96049983
>Bullshit. Post proof
I have none except the word of a guy I know has the book. And he says when it comes to characters if its not a model they sell its not an option. Consul variants like chaplains are also equipment locked (so no thunder hammers on chaplains)

bros....I hust want alpha legion rules already

rip the bandaid off already so i can huff the copium+delerium already

>>96049993
>word of a guy who has the book

I believe you, can you tell me about what decurions are/do in 3rd?

>>96048855 (OP)
>TQ
Of this lot only one guy remains legal. I am not happy.

>>96050002
I have no idea. The guy said that there may be a big imgur of stuff coming soon, so I would wait for that.

no khan on bike, ahahaha

>>96050011
I think all of them are still legal, they just have to be centurions

>>96050011
Big oof.

>>96049993
>hey guys every lovely kitbash you've made is null, throw your models in the trash

>>96049993
We already know it's not true
The raven guard example list shows a librarian with a staff and a praetor with talons
Neither are on the GW base model

>>96050046
>B-b-buh, muh Legacies pdf

>>96050046
Welcome to going from a specialist game to a mainline game like 40k. Enjoy the ride.

>>96050068
Characters still have options, what the leaker meant by that is that if there isnt say, a chaplain on bike model, there isnt the option to put him on a bike. SOME consuls are also equipment locked, but not all of them.

>>96050046
Unless specific consuls don’t have access to legion officer wargear its fine.

>>96049620
FULL STORY????

>>96050081
>no consul or character ever released has ever been on bike or had a jump pack
Man this is gay af, this is the end of bike armies

>>96050041
>I think all of them are still legal as long as you use them as something completely different.
Gee, that's swell. Thanks for that useful advice.

>>96050091
Some dont. Chaplains are stuck with a power weapon afaik. Also no terminator armor/jump packs for them.

>>96050092
There is a leaker in a discord, he is posting leaks and answering questions (slowly, because he is mobbed). Pardo (or someone pretending to be him) pops in with a new account and drops a "hmmmmm", leaker dips out.

>>96050100
Copium for legacy options.

>>96050092
Pardo from SN snitched the discord leaker

>>96050100
3.0 can only hurt you if you let it.

>>96049838
the guy who runs the SN battle reports channel

>>96049456
The -1S never did you stupid faggot

Wait so no terminator consuls?

>>96049620
Punk ass imaginary country ass having bitch.

Guys, what if Veteran Despoilers are Hereticus only?

Well, thank fuck the libers fixed it, eh?

You know, I'm kinda so-so on the new models, but I still have been considering preordering the new box. After some more deliberation I guess I'll abstain, considering how dogshit like 80% of the rules seem and how many units are being moved to legacies.

>>96050106
ah yes because i'm the one faggot that's gonna show up to an event like "hey guys, I just made up house rules, respect my list"

>>96050127
What if destroyers are heretic only since theyre naughty list marines?

>>96050121
Nope, all removed, alongside a whole swath of consuls that are just gone entirely, regardless of armor.

>>96050091
So, I assume there's a second page? There's no disintegrators listed apart from the combi and there's none of the Saturnine terminator weapons. Would this also imply that catas can't take a power sword or thunder hammer any more?

>>96050139
I'm not sure I'd want to go to an event made up of people who saw no issues with 3.0 anyway.
Make your own event. Run 2.0 It existed before today, they're not just deleting it from the world.

>>96050103
>Chaplains are stuck with a power weapon afaik. Also no terminator armor/jump packs for them.
If the PDF doesn't have legacy options I will take a pack regardless and tack on 15 points.

>>96050142
At least four loyalist legions deployed considerable amounts of Destroyers, so that's a nope.

>>96050155
Anon I was clearly jokingly posting weapons grade cope much like the guy im replying to.

>>96050143
Literally why lol so odd

>>96050151
Why would anyone outside the Saturnine datasheet have access to Saturnine weapons?

>gain some stuff from older edition(s) of 40k
>lose a lot of stuff that is 30k

Upsetting.

>>96050154
Not legal, sorry. Hand over your mini so I can put it in the official miniature-annihilator.

>>96050143
I literally just built a Primus Medicae

>>96050151
>Would this also imply that catas can't take a power sword or thunder hammer any more?
Thunder hammers are literally right there in the legion terminator melee weapons list.

>power weapon
I assume those are base.

>"The Libers will fix it!"
>The Libers made it worse

>>96050179
This is all your fault. In tartaros erminator armour too!?! How dare you!

MY LEGACY ANONS POST! MY LEGACY ANONS SEETHE! MY LEGACY ANONS COOOOOOOOOOPE!

>>96050158
No model no rules, same as always.

>>96050179
Just made a delegatus, if that's any help.

>>96050187
Unironically not playing 3rd of the legacies dont rerun half my fucking army

>>96050179

Yea tell me about it

>>96050192
What do you mean you didn't throw out all your army and replace it with GW-approved new plastics?

> Be a dark angels player
>See that I get stubborn

Get fucked Nightlord shitters

>>96050203
>Night Battles removed
>"Well at least we have fear"
>Nightlords rival legion is immune to fear

>>96050203
Now neither of us get a legion trait!

>>96050213
Fuck my stupid nostraman chud life

>Raven Guard has anti-Alpha Legion baked in so I'm forced to buy melee kits for that one matchup
Thanks GW

>>96050221
Konrad Curze visions let him foresee how trash his legion would be in HH3.0 tha'ts why he let the assassin isekai him so he could go farm turnips in another world.

>>96050213
"Hey Night Lords! Remember in 2.0 when we made that really cool RoW that lets you take loads of bikes? Every model you built for it is illegal! Fuck you!"

>>96050229
>He doesn’t bring a combined arms list to every game

>>96050234
>Hey Iron Warriors remember how in 40k3.0 we let you run Basilisk artillery? Every model you built for it is illegal! Fuck you
I've learned never to invest in Traitor legion RoW gimmick units, they have a lifespan of about 1 edition then GW takes your money and runs.

>>96050234
No one took that RoW. The actual NL RoW was terror assault, which was the only viable way to play that army given every special unit and option was terrible.

>>96050234
I thought bikes were still in?

>>96050245
You've learned this over the one time it happened 10 minutes ago?

>>96050257
>dude mentions 3rd edition of 40k
>"one time 10 minutes ago"
Man, the reading comprehension of this general is at an all-time low

>>96050240
It's an alpha legion faggot, it's probably maxed out headhunters.

>>96050214
I will happily give up a proactive legion trait to ensure you suffer with yours, loyalty is its own reward.

>>96050254
The RoW makes you take a ton of centurions on bikes.

I can't believe I'm going to say this, but I might just play 2.0 with some changes and port in new units. I really, truly, thought that even if 3.0 would be a step back but I would suck it up. They really actually made something this is objectively bad. Not haha le doomer bad. Just a sub quality product below their usual standards. First time? In my 20 years of playing yes, it's finally gone too far for me.

>>96050285
In memory of Alan Bligh

>>96050285
Just go back to 1st edition then, its better then 2nd by far.

Why are bike marines less intelligent that normal marines, or even marines on jetbikes?

Do they just send the tards to war on bicycles?
Do they have their air supply hooked up to the exhaust system?
Does the lack of suspension just slowly shake their brain until they become retarded?

>>96050300
I think the idea is that they are moving to fast. You cant stop and carefully pump in a data code while driving 50 mph.

Intelligence is not just smarts, its capacity to interact with machinery and specific terrain/objective features.

>>96050300
I assume it's not "Intelligence" so much as "Interaction" and it's a lot harder to interact with something if you're on a bike (especially a moving bike) than if you're an infantryman with two free hands.

>>96050300
Its possible int represents not just "intelligence" but also the ability to perform complex operations and interact with that sort of stuff (hence why dreads have low int), bikes arent really suited to doing stuff, try fix a car while riding a bike.

>>96050285
Honestly, same. I'll need to clear this with the guys at the store but hopefully they'll agree.

>>96050295
There as aspects of both I like. I don't want to play vanilla of either edition. I also don't want to make my own edition. It would be much easier to fix up 2.0 and get people to play that.

>>96050309
And yet a giant robot is INT8 (despite the other giant robot being INT5)

>>96050295
Based and truthpilled

>>96050309
>>96050311
>>96050312
Read nerds, the jetbike marines have normal intelligence.

Its ONLY the outriders that have lower intelligence than every other marine unit.

>>96050300
It’s a subtle in-joke about you having to be stupid to bring outriders at any point in game history

>>96050325
Jetbikes might have some technological interface, or just better suspension for serving as a stationary platform. Or maybe theyre piloted by a more tech-savvy crew due to being higher tech.

>>96050309
>>96050311

>>96049335
Militia. Daemons.

>>96050326
I had a 6 man outrider group in my DA list all with power swords. It was supposed to be like knights on horsies :(.

>>96050335
tech heresy

>>96050257
Over the last 20 years. Daemon allies (40k or AOS), traitor guard allies, non-traitor guard/sisters/custodes allies. Anytime a secondary sub-subfaction lets you use a miniature not legal in your actual faction, GW hasn't the slightest care about having you buy it then stealing it from you.

Even brand new 2025 Emperors children you get like 4 or 5 slaanesh daemon choices, instead of the total 10-12 in the daemon codex. Despite being 1/3rd of a fucking army and could've fit every single slaanesh daemon in just fine.

Same with World Eaters in 40k, intentionally only 1/3rd of an army. Basic CSM units like Vindicator tanks stripped, allowed to drive a predator but not that.

They did it to Legion of the Firstborn in AOS, hey you can mix all kinds of daemons you want, then no we've removed 90% of them "go buy mortal chaos warriors your army no longer exists lmao"

Trying to "think outside the box" like a world eater tank army or a night lords biker army or a blood angel non-jetpack army is just asking to get screwed by GW who are barely even capable of making one legion's stereotypical-mainline legal or vaguely balanced. The design team doesn't even play horus heresy (theye call heavy supports Devastators) and don't know how the rules work in HH, so expecting them to understand or care about the fringe outside-the-box stuff is a pipedream.

So what have we actually lost wargear wise on consuls other than chaplains not getting to replace their power weapon and no terminator armor? Are masters of signal just get no options? Can champions or librarians take anything other than a paragon blade or force weapon?

now what

>>96050326
Fuck you, outriders have always been cool.

They look nice, and have had various levels of 'not utter garbage'

If this is how marines are treated I fear with every fiber of my being for my Sisters of Silence.

>>96050338
Love it!
>>96050356
I include myself in the stupid comment because I also have them.

>>96050335
Oh, look a person not on a bike with high interaction!

>>96050325
you'd have to be pretty retarded to drive a ground bike when anti-gravity jetbikes also exist desu

>>96050300
anyone who buys a harley davidson has a room temperature IQ. And outriders are the harley davidson of warhammer in a universe where jetbikes (better performing and cheaper and more agile japanese motorcycles) exist.

>>96050351
Play Titanicus

>Land Raider Explorator is a Recon unit
Interesting....

>>96050383
As are the fucking tarantulas.

>>96050389
>recon by "which of our tarantulas have been destroyed and are no longer sending us signal updates every 5 minutes?"

>>96050389
Stationary sentry guns are well known for their fieldcraft and reconnaissance skills.

>>96050389
>tarantula ~sentry~ battery
makes sense

>>96050413
Isn't sentry almost the opposite of recon?

>>96050295
I think that might be what I'm going to do.

>>96050375
>>96050371
Jetbikes are meant to be rare, or at least not very plentiful.

Thats like saying marines are retarded for using a bolter over a volkite charger.

I genuinely want to know what outriders are just morons according to GW, every time they update the rules, outriders seem to get fucked more, but they don't get relegated to legacies so???

>>96050389
No stranger than having them as Fast Attack.

>>96050383
>a land raider fulfills the same tactical role as a tarantula

>>96050427
True, but swapping one flavour of retarded for another is not the smart man's play.

>>96050351
Wait for the other Libers to leak I guess

>>96050422
My understanding of the tarantula CONOPS was that they were deployed by rhino before the battle and would act as an early warning system. Though idk, I could have dreamed that up. I'm getting old and senile.

>>96050389
Tarantulas have been dropped behind enemy lines by drop ships/pods for a while, according to GW that made them FA and now recon.

>>96050436
Fast Attack has always been the dumpster of the FOC. It's where they throw all the units that don't fit anywhere else, no matter what they are.

>>96050326
They are 2w now, at least. 20ppm is not bad either

>>96050460
Only 1 attack unlike assault squads, lost hit and run, and can no longer take any melee upgrades.
Hell, they cant even upgrade their bike guns anymore except for plasma, which is very sad.

>>96050460
if they get double shots from twin bolters/twin plasma guns then 20/35 is not a bad price point for a unit that also earns you points for blasting objective campers off their objectives. It's effectively 10/17.5ppm for a M12 bolter/plasma at the extra cost of not being able to capture objectives themselves.

>>96050440
Sentries are under the recon umbrella. A camera with a gun.

>>96050484
Vanguard can still take objectives, they just only get one point for controlling them, which is better than nothing if you can say hop onto one first turn before anyone can contest

>>96050245
I still don't understand why they removed that. 4th edition had somewhat better rules, but the updated codicies (barring the Imperial Guard codex) were maybe the beginning of the end when I look back now.

>>96050377
Extremely based

>>96050506
cavalry can't hold objectives at all. jetbikes are in an even worse position than regular bikes because they both can't hold objectives and didn't get vanguard to earn points through clearing objectives.

>>96050312
This

>>96050337
I wouldn't put much stock in that. The transition of those two lists suffered horribly in 2.0, and it's not like they were in the best of ways during 1.0 either. Kitbasher's armies, my ass.

>>96050513
Whats his face, codex writer from GW said that the 5th ed chaos codex was intended as like a vanilla SM codex, with traitor legion supplements to come out afterwards. i.e. follow the SM model for CSM.

But then GW decided nah, fuck em. So we just got left with a barebones garbage codex and no real legion rules until the modern day 40k slop we currently have (or the 7th ed legion rules which were cool, but released like 2 days before they ended 7th ed).

>>96050519
Yet jetbikes do not have this debuff, despite being even larger, and flying over the ground

>>96049276

No Destroyers is fucking dumb, they're one of what, three actually cool things every Legion got, next to Seekers and Centurion variations.
it's not like Scouts who might be a part of Recon squads now, there's no other unit it would make sense for them to be folded into. Hell that was literally the fucking point!

They sure as fuck better being the Legends PDF and not saved for the ZM pdf.

>>96050568
>it's not like Scouts who might be a part of Recon squads now
Bro, jump packs aren't even selectable wargear anymore. Do you really think scout armour will be?

>>96050554
well, they released Black Legion and Crimson Slaughter with 7th edition and then in 8th they all had legion rules. Guess it takes 10 years or so.

>>96050581
black legion uses the same non-named units as every other CSM, so it's not like when IW could have guard tanks. And Crimson Slaughter is just nothing now, no named character or anything.

hm, I just wonder: 5 pages of Dark Angels Armoury?? 1h sword, 2h sword, plasma repeater, stasis missiles - what else?

>>96050609
the prime advantages are in the armory, so they probably have one for each of the wings

>>96049887
>Somebody called him a nigger and he logged out

>>96049086
>IF also lost assault cannons apparently
bye bye to my castellan and assault cannon squad.

>>96049063
>WS get +2" movement
That's pretty great. Not only +2" but still a charge bonus. It's basically +3" threat range on any melee unit.
Pretty funny that SW only get +2 when charging

>>96050575
back in the old days it was

>>96050642
So was terminator armour as an upgrade for characters and command squads. Now terminator characters and terminator command squads are separate entries.

>>96050642
Oh, I'm aware. But those were the old days, when jump packs did exist as wargear. We're past those days now.

>>96050046
Remember when y'all said models were forever? And they are. It is the rules what change, and leave your forever models behind.
But you have models, and that's its own reward, to be sure. Plus there's always count as. Not everyone is a rivet-counter, right?

>>96049620
guess I shouldn't watch content of that cunt

>>96050665
the people who use that catchphrase are the 80% of GW customers that play 0 games on average each year, they just buy it and put it on the shelf as a box or rarely clip it out then fingerpaint a single layer of paint with no highlights or shading then dip the model in nuln oil, sit back and say "I Hobbied"

>>96050665
Its pretty fucking gay anon.

If I want to play wysiwyg, but GW slowly just invalidate my models, I either have to stop using them, or just not be wysiwyg anymore - or homebrew rules.

>>96050132
G-guys let's wait until Liber Hereticus before doomposting. We don't yet have the full picture, you know?

>>96050687
so long as SoH are good I don't care what happens to yalls armies

>>96050687
They probably went back to 6th edition CSM codex quality. Wrong page numbers in the table of contents and trash rules (Raptors deep strike and can't do anything else that turn. Fuckin A).

The Terminator Centurion and Praetor are separate units. Do we have confirmation that consuls can't take it? (ignoring the ones before that couldn't)

>>96050699
official heresy color pattern has been changed to Luna Wolves, no green dudes allowed anymore.

>>96050229
>Raven Guard has anti-Alpha Legion baked in
Not only I don't know what that is. I also don't know what the Alpha Legion's thing is in 3.0, as to have something that counters it.
No way their trait is still +2" distance

>>96050272
>it's probably maxed out headhunters.
If you didn't want them to max Headhunters, don't give them a Headhunter troops RoW (and then also make Coils useless)

>>96049124
I don't see any issues with it. What's supposed to be wrong about that bit?

>>96050711
isn't the Termi Centurion the base model for the individual Consul?

>>96050722
My assumption is that it's a 40k, possibly primaris bit, but you're correct, there's no hard primaris design language on it that I can see.

>>96050725
The problem is no one's actually come out and said whether consuls are upgrades like last edition or just separate unit profiles with their own upgradess, because they're all GW shills and trying to keep the hopium alive until you buy the book yourself

>>96050717
I didn't give them that, I didn't write the rules.

>>96050229
18” is still far enough that I feel like I can drive up and start blasting. Plus, speaking of blasts, they only scatter on a miss so they’re less affected by snap shooting.

What the fuck are y'all talking about there's no jump pack unit centurion or praetor entry, they're still upgrades

>>96050748
>Terminators are T5
>they all have impalcable advance
Okay GG it's terminator edition

>>96050739
oh, didn't realize that. Oh man - maybe they just come in artificer armor and only the vanilla dude has a Termi option for small lists.

>>96050748
Tartaros Praetor finally gets the Iron Halo, I guess.

>>96049557
Yeah, anyone who plays the devs' pet faction being able to autodelete any HQs you take is *much* better.

Working on the cursed venator kitbash.

Post models! It's more interesting than doomposting

>>96050451
>Tarantulas have been dropped behind enemy lines by drop ships/pods
They had a choice of deepstrike, scout or shrouded back in 1.0 Solar Auxilia.
Do they have any of that this time around? Or are they deliberately choosing to be retarded.

>>96050755
are they? Because they made some specific entries for unit variants that have them (see vets) - so that would mean units don't have them without a specific entry.

>>96050476
>lost hit and run
Pretty sure any unit can disengage from melee now

>>96050784
Vets, assaults, dawnbreakers. Only the Corvid Pattern seems to still exist as discrete wargear.

>>96050484
>double shots
Right, twin linked is no longer a thing. So what do twin plasmaguns do? Cuz 4 plasma shots would be honestly pretty good

>>96050703
>Raptors deep strike and can't do anything else that turn
Fucking Brainless

>>96050568
Lmao destroyers were always shit, had cool fluff and shit rules they never attempted to improve. I don't give a fuck they are gone.

>>96050748
>T5 termies
Called it

>>96050776
I would but, I kid you not, the models in my queue are not in 3.0.

>>96050295
>t. TSons player with 500 pieplates

>>96050776
> pops MK2 from orbit

>>96050011
Drop the 'current edition' scam, go back to 1.0 (or as you should properly call it, just HH).

>>96050763
>praetor entry

Stop being retarded

>>96050748
Did we see what Slow and Purposeful was?
The other was counting weapins as assault iirc?

>>96050755
>no primus medicae
>no forge lord

>>96050665
failed your cope check, op

>>96050831
they either went to the pdf or will be released with some mission DLC, however they call it

>>96050784
>see vets
Vets have different WS and BS and completely different wargears

>>96050838
But they also don't have jump packs. Nowhere on their sheet does it say jump pack. They just have in-built 12" movement, Anti-grav, bulky (2) and deep strike. There's no jump pack.

>Many consuls now either gone or legacy'd
>Veteran infantry core now illegal unless they pull some shit
IT'S
OVER

>>96050748
OH SHI

This means centurions will be able to wear Tartaros Armor like now and join squads of tactical marines to soak up all the ap3 shots, AND keep up with them like now, AND have 4 wounds. By the Emperor!.

>>96050842
See >>96050748, they can just put another profile with a points Cost upgrade despite removing armor types as gear. It's in fact how they have to do it because there's no praetor with jump pack unit entry and all jump packs have 12" move and antigrav

>>96049063
>IF are the same as before
God fucking damn it
They nerfed all the legion traits except for the one that actually fucking needed it
At least they didn't give them +1BS.
Must have been fucking hard to contain themselves

>>96050858
That's such a retarded way to do it.

>>96050828
probably still no Run, no React

>>96050831
>>no primus medicae
What are the chances that apothecaries can just take termie armour?

>>96050853
and cost twice as much as a Rhino that is also faster

>>96050853
I say this because Cataphracti and Saturnine are Heavy so they are a different unit type to tactical marines (Infantry) so they can't join them. But Tartaros is NOT Heavy so they can form the ultra wounds roadblock.

>>96050871
There's no entry for one like with all the other characters.

>>96050871
A support squad in heavy assault armor?
Ha, I just thought about an Apothecary in that new 5th Element armor, joining such a squad...

>was told to just take cheap techmarines as command slots because
>techmarines arent command
>forge lord gone

>>96050748
>Ld 10 Cl 9 WP 9 In 9
it really is just Leadership but with unnecessary extra steps

>>96050874

But with a Centurion you can have 20 and be protected against charges except with another character. Also tacticals on foot score but inside the rhino they can't.

>>96050769
Took them fucking long enough

>>96050877
>Cataphracti and Saturnine are Heavy so they are a different unit type to tactical marines (Infantry) so they can't join them.
I wish nothing but bad things to Britain and its people.

>>96050888
Look there is just no way they could have had 1 stat and a special rule to modify it in certain circumstances.

>>96050880
Apothecaries might work like before. They are support but they have to split and deploy with other units

>>96050729
It's quite literally the tactical/devastator squad sergeant powerfist, from what I can tell. Even the cable is the exact same.

>>96050888
I assume techmarines will be smarter and kibrarians have more power without a high Ld base.
It's felt pretty unneccesary tho, yea

>>96050905
As in it looks the same, or as in you're saying it's from one of those kits?

>but its just a LEAK
>but it'll be in LEGACIES
>but they'll TACTICA JOURNAL IT

>>96050460
Well that's dumb because bikes should be +1T, not +1W

>>96050899
where does it say Heavy models can't join regular infantry?

>>96050877
Jesus christ you don't even have the confusing rules excuse to fall back on this time

>>96050914
It looks the same. It can't be from a vanilla kit because of the massive templar cross.

Any leakers put out Ultramarine rules yet?
Have rules for Retinue squads dropped also? Need to know if they can take combi-weapons and melee gear, otherwise my veterans are now carrying unplayable loadouts.

>>96048855 (OP)
Any chance of Leakanon sharing the page for termite drills?

>>96050915
>rulebook won't be what the warcom article says
>don't knock it til you see the libers
>legacies will correct it
>just wait for the errata/FAQ, don't worry
>it'll be in a future journal
>just wait til 4e

>>96050925
I agree for the most part. The fingers look more rounded than most, which makes me think it might be primaris, but it's too small a details to prevent it being normal power armour, or even heresy era.

>>96050932
Anyone who says wait for the balance pass can neck themselves.
I'm still waiting on 2.0's balance pass.

>>96050921
Thats cool. You corrected me on the internet anon, I was wrong.

>>96050877
>(Infantry)
Cataphractii is still infantry and I don't see anything in Heavy that would prevent them from joining non heavy infantry
You can't run with the whole unit and you get no benefit since not all the models are heavy so it's strictly a downside. But you can still do it unless I'm mossing something

>>96050938
oh yeah I forgot the first step
>3.0 is really just gonna be 2.5, they still care enough to make balance patches

>>96050927
UM LA is having -1 reaction cost unce per turn, apparently

>>96050859
>At least they didn't give them +1BS
+1 to hit makes BS4 marines hit snapshots on a 4+ though

>>96050938
We already got it. They nerfed all the UM legacy units and nothing else

>>96050959
Nah, erratas are tiny hotfixes, balance patches are much wider.
We never got one.

>>96050948
But it doesn't give BS5 marines autowounds and +1D on 6s
At least there's that...

>>96050938
The balance patch was the slurs we yelled along the way

>>96050975
nigger

>>96050968
we were never going to get one
latest warcom article makes it clear they were knee deep in 3e before 2e even released

>>96050974
I would be fine with Seekers doing Crits on 6s, as opposed to the entire army being Snapshot (4+).
That is, as long as it was only bolt weapons, not also autocannons and other autoguns. Fuck that.
Their 1.0 rules were better, as it also acknowledged their duelists being the forerunners of the Black Templars

>>96050981
latest warcom article makes it clear that after the original maker of horus heresy died, the rules are now made by the 40k team in a couple hours drunk muttering random suggestions without playtesting a single part of it and then having ChatGPT clean up their mumblings for printing.
The "designers" don't know how moving or assault or shooting works in HH, or what a Devastator Marine squad isn't, or how dreadnoughts work, or anything you'd need to know to play the game.

>>96050987
>"The man guarding this temple just dies, let's pillage it!"

https://imgur.com/a/space-wolves-leaks-H7MOpsO
>varagyr lost all options
lol lmao

If it's going to be TacSpam the Game (the game by the way), we need to see what volkite does, since ap3 is going to be useless to kill tacticals and ap2 is going to be useless to kill Centurions, also Instant Death is gone so str 8 is trash. Right now Heavy Bolters actually seem quite good at 10 pts. But maybe Culverins will edge them out at 15. Also:

>Plasma Guns cost 10 pts.

It's ogre.

>Missile Launchers exist.

LoL

>>96051006
Fucking hell.

>>96050981
also I don't buy that bullshit claim of yours for a second. GW didn't have any work on HH3 when they released HH2 at all. That's not how they work.

I've participated in communities with the NDA "testers", like week 1 getting daemon codex, you take 1 greater daemon per army, week 2 "its all been changed now you can take 8 greater daemons so your last week was totally irrelevant". Week 3 beta is over. Essentially 1 single week of actual testing the codex (if even that)

GW does not test rules for multiple years. They're not capable of even spending one month on anything short of the core rules, and core rules is gonna be like 2-3 months of lazy barely testing.

>>96051010
Krak Missiles are AP3 with Heavy (AP)

What are some must-change from 2.0. I mean actual awful rules. I am going to cope by writing as small of a document as possible changing 2.0. Already have, or plan to have:
>Deepstrike assault gone, just 1e with charges and mishap table where a 6 the unit just dies.
>See into, out of, but not through ruins
>Reactions limit 2 per turn up to 3k, scales up every 1k
>Shooting reactions toned down
>Lascannons lose sunder
>Plasma everything -5ppm
>Vehicles only deploy as squadrons, separate after
>No option to purchase artificer armor
>Additional FOC slot of any kind per 500 points above 2.5k, ergo at 3k you get a bonus one
I wanted to change ROWs, looking at you Stone Gauntlet, but I don't want this to be a full on 12 page errata. Some self policing is expected. If you want to run Stone Gauntlet than I'd say dont take Apothecaries in Warder Squads. Don't spam dreads without a heads up. For changing armies I dont want to try and fix knights either. If this can be 2, maybe 3 pages max that would be ideal. Porting in units is later.

>>96051034
So a 270pt unit of Missiles kills 5 tacticals a turn. Before Cover saves and FNP.

>>96051039
Do something better with your time, Anon. It's over.

>>96050826
Well, what now? ShAlL wE wAiT fOr LiBeR hErEtIcUs?

>>96051039
Some stuff my group looked at included:
- only one shooting reaction per unit per turn. You don't get to shoot 3 times on my turn, and once on yours
- reactions with heavy weapons are snap shots, unless you have relentless etc
- went with the linear WS chart
- Deep Strike assault is still a thing, but you roll for each unit and the minimum distance is 4", not 1"
- AA still exists, but shooting is now done closest-first (wounds go on wounded models first though). So sure, you can AA tank if you really want, but you have to position well and hope your opponent doesn't out-maneuver.

We're still working through it, and it'll probably be a wider re-working, but it's looking workable so far.

>>96051061
Well it's either this or stare at my painting queue of units that don't exist anymore.

>>96051010
>Right now Heavy Bolters actually seem quite good at 10 pts
Isn't that what they cost right now though
>Plasma guns
Oof. Ouch. Yikes.

>>96051062
Please tell me that's the whole entry and there's no options beyond what's in the model kit.

>>96051065
>only one shooting reaction per unit per turn.
This is a good one and makes me realize we also need
>A unit may only trigger one reaction
So you don't double shoot one unit.
>but shooting is now done closest-first
This is a good one too. Musical wounds in the shooting phase is awful.

>>96051025
"We made the first mockup of the Saturnine Terminators even before the 2022 Age of Darkness Boxed Set hit the shelves. We knew we would need something big and impressive in the new box, and as this is a quasi-historical game we didn’t want to pluck something out of thin air – just like the fans, we want to make sure everything feels rooted in the lore.. Saturnine Terminators had been mentioned in a black book* and in a Black Library novel, so they were the perfect choice."

>>96051070
But in 3.0 they can move and shoot turn one, so you get them online a turn sooner.

>>96051067
Play Titanicus

>>96051074
All resin units are now locked to only what's in the kit

>>96051088
I played Titanicus! A 2v2 beginners game once again vs the guy I played last week. He split his Mortis up I just brought extra models.
My teammate and 3 opponent's were all vets of the 90s Titanicus and everyone was happy to play the new version. It's great to game with people who have been doing it for so long.

>>96051091
Must suck to suck.

>>96051039
>>Plasma everything -5ppm
Piece of advice: due to 2.0 not having common Wargear Option Tables, it's easier to change one gun's stats to conform to a pts price, than change a bunch of option costs across Emperor knows how many datasheets.
If the plasma gun is too weak for its price, then give it a Supercharge profile where it swaps Breaching (X) for full AP2

>>96051091
>my reaver squads with lightning claws
>my sekhmet terminators with combi meltas

>>96051097
Whoops.
So the Warmaster was again a big scary mother but it cost as much as 4 other units so we were able to outmaneuver the opposition because of it. Still Blastermaster got shredded in one turn and it was only randomly targeting those weapons that saved it. Blastermaster would only get 2 shooting phases off this game, and would flump all but 1 repair rolls to be irrelevant for most of the match.

>>96051039
>>Deepstrike assault gone, just 1e with charges and mishap table where a 6 the unit just dies
How about change deepstrikes so they have a mishap table but daisy chains cannot exist because you have to deploy them in concentric circles (like it was in 1.0)?
Do that and you can afford and survive deepstrike charges

>>96051010
You really just went and started bitching about made up shit, didn't you

>>96051065
>reactions with heavy weapons are snap shots, unless you have relentless etc
I missed this on my first read, I have something similar. 5+ to hit unless relentless etc. outside the first player turn. Vehicles can fire with everything then too. That way the player going second has a bit more bite.

>>96051113
I'm the other anon, but we also have it that each unit you deep strike has to be balled up (or, each model after the first has to be as close to the first as possible.)
Fuck daisy chains

>>96051084
This must be some concern I'm too DGpilled to notice

>>96051062
>special rule for space wolves, your terminator squad must have a character who is obligated to accept challenges or the whole squad strikes at initiative 1
>he's an initiative 4 loser with just 2 wounds, who will get torn to shreds by a real fighter like Kharn before getting to swing his weapon even for 1 attack
>upon Kharn instantly one-shotting the sergeant, your squad doesn't get their special rule and they lose the combat and have to tuck their tails between their legs and run away

>>96051079
>mockup of terminator models
The sculptors are not in any way related to the rules team, idiot. They are entirely different employees. They sculpt models years in advance because they aren't going to commit to dumping $50,000+ on a production run of stuff until it gets greenlit and they feel it is the thing they need their factory to be making. Them having sculpted minis years ago does not mean "they were kneedeep in HH3.0 years ago so the rules team couldn't do balance passes for HH2.0", you massive retard. They had sculpts for the Votann several years ago, does that mean they never released any balance passes for 9E-40k or 10E-40k? No. Because they did release balance passes for them. Why? Because the rules team has nothing to do with the sculptors.

>>96051111
We actually won, thanks to Stripes. Neither reaver here got the charge off but Stipes came out on top thanks to me remembering my smash attacks. Even though it lost its power fist to the apocalypse missiles it would topple the other reaver with a few lucky rolls.

Be real, anons: did you ever go to ground in 7E? It essentially pinned your unit for +1 to cover

>>96051123
The knights got into position thanks to being able to stall until the warhound moved first and would pull out its reactor with their claws. I like the magerna, thanks to only having to take 1 they're the cheapest knights and their damage output isn't bad.

>>96051091
>all resin units now locked to only what's in the kit
Justaerin Terminators have no weapons or arms, in order to not outshine Horus and Abs.

>>96051121
>Hey guys make us some cool new terminators for the new box set in three years!"
>"New box set for what?"
>"no idea, we haven't figured out anything yet"

>>96051131
The warhound would explode and wreck one of the knights, leaving the other with a dragon to slay.

>Scouts and Destroyers gone
>Half the consuls gone
>No model, no rules tier approach to customization options
>Rogue Trader stats that add barely anything to the game, purely done to cash in on nostalgia points alongside the saturnine shit
>Tactical statuses are cool I guess
>But make vehicles dogshit if they get glanced even once
>Meltaguns make non-infantry completely fucking useless
>Infantry hordes edition, no more sweeping advance means games will just be grinding down 100 tactical marines in the centerfield in attempt to get magical circle points
>Nu-40k style objective gameplay as just mentioned
>100 "gambits" for challenges nobody fucking asked for, literally just bloat
>Can move and shoot heavy weapons with no downside
>10th edition tier special rules for weapons
>dreadnoughts and primarchs both cucked
>4 turn games, all battles will be purely based around rushing infantry squads to objectives and meatgrinding, makes a lot of narrative themed armies completely useless
>damage stat added for literally no reason
>didn't actually fix any of the 2.0 balance issues, just made new ones
>legion unique rules completely cucked, replaced the flavor and options with fucking gambits and detachments
yeah this shit fucking sucks man, I don't care about the "just wait it out and see man" copefags. They ruined horus heresy, this new game is just modern 40k with a cool stat, challenges and armor facings now. Completely disappointed

>>96051132
and just like that, the half of my army that wasn't illegal in 3.0 is now illegal
and no, the legacies won't fix this, they don't put wargear options in legacies

>>96051139
But despite all the available firepower the warmaster and reaver titan stood up and took it. Our opponents rolled very well with their repair and shield rolls but suffered on their damage output. Jim walked off clean from suzerian plasma attacks that by rights should have cut it in half, and the reaver shrugged off attacks from both warhounds, even if I'd remembered to do coordinated strikes it wouldn't have helped.

>>96051113
Yes, that I do have. No daisy chains, just blobs. Risk of mishap and if you fail your charge youre blast bait.

>>96051105
That could work too. I like breaching 4+ because I dont want plasma 1.0 again. Are plasma. Thinking on this, I cant think any standard plasmagun or pistol that isnt 10ppm. If there is then maybe make them slightly worse Fusils, just AP3 base, same cost. Porting in Disintigrators and giving them ID would solve them being too similar.

>>96050554
At least there was Imperial Armour back then. Forgeworld at its best (existing) and actually giving a shit.

>>96051143
I was optinistic untill we got to the neutering of army building

>>96051091
HAHA GET FUCKED WAACFAGS, BETRAYAL BROS WIN AGAIN

Do we know anything about TSons?

>>96051187
traitor book hasn't been leaked yet

>>96051187
Apparently their dad either did nothing wrong, or did everything wrong.

>>96051187
Yes, Magnus is a crybaby

this shit is looking pretty dire

>>96051091
Spares me regret of giving my Sehkmet PFists because they're cool and I wasn't playing at the time since the only option is Axes and it literally won't matter what they look like.

>>96051195
it's okay, the legacies/FAQ/Errata/journal will fix it!

>>96051187
on one hand psychic having it's own dedicated stat now gives me hope
on the other hand I've seen how GW have treated psychic recently in both HH 2 and 40k 10th

>>96051187
Check the traitor rules wacom article from a few days ago. Dreads get a psychic upgrade

>>96051201
see >>96050915

i'm actually dooming for the first time since the original announcement after the liber leaks
maybe its all hitting at once

>>96051206
This is why I was pessimistic early. It's been a gentle let down.

>>96051139
He is sure to win (his mobility is superior)

>>96048955
WEtard here
All hope lost

>>96051235
EMBRACE THE NAILS BROTHER

So I've been avoiding looking at all the news. Is Pride of the legion still going to be a thing in 3.0? I've barely gotten all my armies up to 2.0 standards and now 3.0 is just around the corner. Going to do a game with a buddy this week or some such, get a last oorah in for my Traitor Salamanders and AL lists.

>>96051256
If you want to spam terminators, that'll be half doable.
If you want to spam vets - or even use your current vets - you might have problems.

Bros, not gonna lie I was initially excited. But wtf have they done? Im not gonna lie, I have the cash and I might start buying the OG black books to use as play material. wtf were they thinking?

>>96051256
>Is Pride of the legion still going to be a thing in 3.0?
If you take a praetor you'll be able to take 3 squads of veterans and then you'll need a centurion to take up to 4 terminator squads with the option of 1 more veteran squad if you want to forgo upgrading the combat ability of said centurion.

>>96051267
>wtf were they thinking?

>>96051187
That minor arcana are stil a thing and that the saturnine dread can use it apparently

>>96051202
Perils are at least considerably less likely, tho they hit like a fucjing truck when they do

Here's my plan. Buy the Saturnine box for the Mk IIs, get everything else as a bonus. I think the Saturnine praetor in the secondary pose looks fine. Toss the rulebook. Play 1.0 with some additional units like the Saturnine shit and Inductii.

EZ. PZ. Lemon squeezy.

>>96051295
play your saturnines like boxdreads

>>96051295
Mk2s release seperately at the same time

>>96051201
$28 journal to give you back the units we took away.

I've had time to go through all the stages of grief. I play RG and my thoughts are as follows:
>Trait
busted
>Gambit
surprisingly nuanced
>Prime Advantage
trash
>Corax as a unit
probably trash, GW can't quite get his rules right
>Corax as a force multiplier
trash disguised as an amazon package in good shape that has a battery warning on the side
>Nex
Trash and I am still a bit mad about this. I reckon most characters got gutted so it is what it is. If his pistols werent 12" id say he is almost good enough to stick in a HSS for Shrouded 5+ or in a vet unit as a melee character with AP2 melee. Also lmao at Pistol 5 Heavy(FP).
>Dark Furies
Better, WS5 is huge. Still get two choosers to match the resin kit and by extension Talons are good
>Mor Deythan
I malded a bit, I won't lie-I have 4 Combi volkite and 6 shotguns with a sabre. I then sat on it for a few hours. I guess I have veterans now. I didnt paint the 10th one because I put 9 in a pod with Maun. So I guess I'll give him a heavy disintigrator instead? Unsure what to do. I have Nemesis vets that are MD now and will just auto delete one character a game I suppose.

>>96050755
>no decurions.
>no mortifactor

Going to get the intro box to made a DA army, to paint other than that avoiding the edition.

>>96051265
>>96051275
Ok cool. I have 3 termie squads in my AL POTL. I was list building a gorgon heavy one for IH but I should probably lay off that till the rules come out eh?
I saw the thing about some squads getting buffs depending on the FOC when I gave it a quick read through. Is all the list building stuff in the first link in OP? Or is it sorta scattered around?

>>96051306
Don't interrupt a good blind malding

>>96051267
I was strongly skeptical of 3.0 when it was initially leaked in the sense that even if it was my perfect wishlist of changes, it was soft confirmation of being subject to the 3 year content mill that 40k and AoS are part of which introduces a whole array of problems. I was, however, pleasantly surprised by a lot of the core rules that have been shown in articles or leaked; not all perfect, of course, but I liked most of what I saw. But if every army is going to be pared down like Raven Guard and Space Wolves are, that's gonna be a hard no for me.

My friends and I are going to talk over how we want to structure our own take on 30k this weekend, maybe adding a 3.0 idea here or there (such as a Centurion providing an extra slot or two to the baseline Force Org or Rite of War that normally wouldn't fit).

"The new edition of Heresy really opens up list building and lets you put together your army like you want!"
"Not your models tho, fuck you"

Have we seen if there are any other types of "primary detachments" everything seems auxiliary and needs a primary to unlock

>>96051327
Put together any army you want. As long as it's new. Buy the kits, goy.

>>96051121
Bro, their generic models are just a single set of 3d skeletons that they slap into cad and add in some slightly different armour plates on top of.

How heretical is building a heavy weapons team with autocannons but running them as lascannons?
I love the aesthetic of the AC, but it has been pathetic for over a decade in any GW game.

>locked only what's available in the resin kits
Oh no no no no

>>96051339
Autocannons are about to the primo anti-tank weapon thanks to their ability to stunlock most of them.

>>96051315
The prime advantages are in the OP but each legion gets custom ones and detachment so it's hard to tell what is possible atm. Termie spam seems relatively easy though

>>96051243
I can't. I'm still waiting to be shot at enough to force a morale test that I will likely pass anyway, and hope I don't get shoot too much that the nails won't help if I even trigger them.

Chainaxes? Now generic legion slop that is some chainsword sidegrade.

Putting assault units in transports? Enjoy no legion bonuses at all

>>96051091
what does this mean for palatine blades? they come with charnable sabres but there's an upgrade sprue still sold by GW for phoenix spears

>>96051330
There were for Knights but it's unlikely normal armies get a different core

>>96051352
Ty. Yeah reading through it a bit more in detail now. When bumping the AL list up to 3K points I want to put 10 Tarts in a stormlord >.> Just because i love stormlords and tartarus termies. Minmaxing be damned Stormlord go brrt.

>>96051358
There's a ton of unit agnostic HH upgrades still sold by GW
But the rules team aren't heresy players and never bothered to check

>>96050763
>>96050826
>>96051062
why do we care so much about implacable advance? warcom says it means they can volley fire with their weapons. so what, they get a few extra combi bolter shots?

So... What about those warlord traits huh?

>>96051384
Gone

>>96051091
Mor deytham can take shotguns
Templar bretheren can take llasmapistol and they don't even have models

LMAO
APOLOGIZE

>>96051386
Thats the joke

Hot garbage. Welcome to the 40k model where you’re eternally compelled to buy new books that invalidate your models. One of the reasons I loved heresy was the stability. Hard no for me.

>>96051384
You mean gambits. We hace a tone to choose from!

>>96051206
It's about as bad as the doomers suspected desu

>>96051391
I'd rather circumcise myself with my hobby knife than play your whiney version

THE LIBER ASTARTES DOES NOT SUPPORT THIS WARGEAR

So can World Eaters even use the new Saturnine suits? They require psychic potential to use but the nails cause bad things to happen to psykers (hence none of the WE librarians having them).

The dark angels leak bro. Please. I must see the damage.
Also are jetbike and outrider command squads gone or can the preatorean command squad get rides?

>>96051391
Unironically looking forward to his edition. Dude is a heavy sperg but I think his understanding of Bligh era HH is much better than whatever the fuck GW is doing with the HH by making it Le Rogue Trader like anyone asked for that

>>96050831
>Fuck up the rules writing so horrendously for Primus medicae that they become borderline worthless during 2.0
>Delete the unit entirely out of spite for all those people calling out your fuck up and asking you why you didn't fix it.
The HH rules writing team good folks!

>>96051408
Stop asking questions and buy new model.

>>96051408
do you really expect the nu-heresy team to have thought about it more than 2 seconds?

>>96051377
>equip entire squad of termies with combi-FOTM
>shoot enemy unit in shooting phase
>shoot enemy unit in assault phase
>hit them with punchy fists

or even funnier if you're RG
>shoot enemy twice in one turn, but deliberately do a longbomb charge you'll fail
>cast wraith ability
>shoot enemy unit twice in their turn
>their charge is disordered so hit them first

I don’t know how many anons play games and how many Horus heresy collectors play, but I’m thinking this edition is going to fracture the player base even more. Is this a big a deal as I’m making it seem. Or is it just whatever your play group rolls with. I’m genuinely torn as to what to expect the community to look like in a year.

>>96051408
If only the World Eaters had a small group of people with no butcher's nails they could give them to

>>96051411
DA get Stubborn and 6 aux detachments representing the hexagrammaton.
No characters on bikes or jetbikes, so probably no retinue on them either

>>96051427
No one here plays games and barely anyone has models
These threads are 95% rules autism arguments

>>96051431
So all their Librarians will now be wearing Saturnine then?

Anon, have you applied for your job with the writing team yet? You'd fit right in

>>96051425
Wraith is only troops

>>96051306
Not worth paying $145 for the tactical marines by any possible stretch.
I'll buy the big box when it hits sub$200, and get the 2 characters, custodes dreadnought, 3 saturnine terms, tarrantula turret and rulebook for just $50 extra, probably sell the rulebook to someone for $10.

>>96051377
truth, implacable advance is a trap. Basically nothing wants to use it. If your unit is good at shooting, you shouldn't be charging anything. It doesn't work for getting charged. And if charging, implacable advance will add 1-3" to your charge when it kills the enemy models - which for move 6 terminators means failing the charge since move 6 is only 1" setup charge allowed.

>>96051427
Heresy has always been about converting to get lore accurate thematic customisation. New heresy is about buying plastic kits

>>96051432
My ravenwings only hope is now the legacies. That likely means that they took away apoths and techmarines on bikes. Truely outrageous. My dark angels are back to their preblack book state. I get why they did away with the wings though. It was a lot to keep track off for anyone who didnt play DA

>>96051427
In terms of how the game overall has changed, the gap between 2.0 and 3.0 is much larger than 1.0 vs 2.0.

Sure, the BALANCE in 2.0 was quite different than 1.0, but it was like 90% the same, with a few new/tweaked rules, probably the main thing being deployment stuff and reactions.

3.0 is changing A LOT of stuff closer to modern 40k and away from oldhammer roots. I don't know about other parts of the world, but a lot of people here play HH because its the older style rules that people like.

This 4 turn slop with 500 detatchment shit is genuinely just not of interest to me. Even if it ends up being good (which I am honestly sceptical of), its just not the game I wanted to play.

So yes, will 100% split the playerbase between people willing to change, or new players, and old grogs that don't like it.

>>96051446
This is the most succinct summary.

>>96051445
Whatif tyrant seige termies shooting twice per turn?

>>96051443
oh, true.

>>96051439
Didn't angron ban psykers? Seems like a good use of them so he doesn't need to see their gay magic

>>96051432
I'm glad I held off buying resin Sammael jetbiker that's discounted somewhere. I knew the second I purchased it he'd stop being 30k legal.

>>96051427
Idk man
I run my local scene of about 20 people
50% of my models are now at risk of having illegal loadouts, same with a lot of my players
Going back to a previous edition is not an option if we ever want to attract new players, which i was counting on with the 3e hype
Needless to say without new players, the community will eventually erode away, but I don't want to manage a game I don't enjoy
I'm now seriously considering dusting off my Trench Crusade and Infinity models, unless they (i doubt) give units their wargear back

>>96051459
He (sorta?) tolerated them, and they continued to serve the legion faithfully until Lorgar daemon'd Angron, and the librarians tried to save him, but got slaughtered for their troubles.

There's some exerpt from the books where some WE dickhead asks a librarian to see the future. When the librarian asks if he actually thinks his powers can do that, the guy laughs at him and says no, he just wanted him to feel useful for once.

>>96051470
Based World Eater bullying that Librarian

>>96051457
they probably won't give it to missile launcher terminators, and if they did you'd be shooting snap shots with BS4, giving an enemy another free turn of shooting your terminator squads, and then fail the charge and have to make a Cool check or get Stunned forever.

Considering lascannon squads jumped to like 375 points, I expect the siege terminator squad will be like 600 points or something so that failing a charge to get 5+ snapshots will be a game-losing move.

I hate the rules writers so fucking much.
Greedy sniveling no-fun-allowed kikes dancing on the graves of their betters.
Hope they and their families get "culturally enriched" by Pakistani rape gangs.

>>96051427
Thankfully(?) I only play with 2-3 friends and we're all pretty much on the same page. Currently looking at sticking with 2.0 and modifying it with some houserules (which is kinda how we've been playing, but expanding it a bit).

>>96051448
Ya something in my gut didn’t feel right with this new edition. I play salamanders and I guess I was caught in the spell of a new edition because I was hoping they wouldn’t be shit anymore. Guess I need to look past that and realize what’s healthier for the game.

>>96051432
No Lion or unit leaks yet ?

>>96051482
Uh, you okay there, pal?