these are the "good guys" edition

>What this thread is for:
/tg/ gets shit done again and is creating a “Battle Bible” (Ala 2nd edition) for 4th edition Warhammer 40k.
>What this thread isn’t for:
Alternative ideas for what 4th edition could include, such as alternating activations, new unit ports, etc. This is a Stage 4 process and so there's plenty of time for that later on.
Don't engage edition warriors, trolls and rule revisionists. We're trying to keep it tight; mannered and objective focused.

BATTLE PLAN:
Stage 1:Finish revising and formatting the SRD.
Stage 2:Compile all GW official erratas into the SRD.
Stage 3: Condense all the codices into up to date SRD.
Stage 4: Make a Hobby Enthusiast supplement for the SRD.
Stage 4: Make an Optional Rules supplement for the SRD.

HOW TO HELP:
- Data-Gifted anons:
> Transcribe your favorite Codex in plain text: >>96068469
> upload somewhere and link it here so it can be proofread and added to the main doc

> Help to update the SRD:
1. Check the latest 4th Ed. SRD here:
v0.98A: drive. google .com/file/d/1KwK1cKvi6J-_38eTp5YRXbzWJvYtmJhA (remove spaces)

Changelog: drive.google.com/file/d/1yLBkFdcigJMjE7s3i8nzuanSt11uTbh52.

Look for any typo, errors, missing rules or dense writing style.
3. Make sure your recommendation wasn't already posted here:
drive. google. com/file/d/1xP-gIraW1DThssvvtE58YeTd3yDxwyzp/ (remove any space)
4. Leave your recommendation on the SRD pdf directly.

- Servo-Gifted anons:
> Get on the Github: github. com/pepsi41999/4ebattlebible.git

- Holo-Gifted anons:
> Get in touch with Inkwash anon >>95934508

RESSOURCES:
Original 4th Ed. Rulebook:
mega. nz/folder/1DMxURza#iLn0OuQ8AVGl4XJvU8J4Ig

FAQs & Erratas :
mega. nz/folder/p95WHYiY#2TZFnrI1vbRtjRSQLWNuYg

3rd/4th era trove:
mega. nz/folder/p95WHYiY#2TZFnrI1vbRtjRSQLWNuYg/folder/pxhlwZZS

4th edition compilation by anon:
mega. nz/folder/PEcnVC5Y#BGZlNvCNOoC2_ZFdw_5KoA

Previous thread: >>95956008

If you'd like to help, please find your preferred codex on pic related, tell us which one you're transcribing, and grab the docs for it here: https://mega .nz/folder/AGAU0RLL#ZppNZJMXZwoYI9CLO7PF6g

then make a document matching the previous work i had done (you can see the three completed codexes here: https://mega .nz/folder/5SxSAbTK#xTn9hz0PGp1_kMYT0SZXuA )

It should have:
>Army rules first, including armory
>HQ, Elites, Troops, Fast Attack, and Heavy support choices.
>If you have extra options from Chapter approved or Imperial armor, put those in their own section
>summary at the end

We can always fix mistakes, but try to pay attention, and save an editable word AND pdf copy. When you're done send a link in the thread so i can add it to this folder so we can access it later and proofread when we get to that section. Any help we can get on this will make that portion easier.

>>96069168 (OP)
Will there be something like a wordpress or a blogspot to "host" this project once it is completed?
Also bump because I'm rooting for you lads.

This is such a cool rule how did I forget about this.

CodexAnon, the ork clan rules are in this mega (mega. nz/folder/p95WHYiY#2TZFnrI1vbRtjRSQLWNuYg/folder/pxhlwZZS), and in the folder called 'Rules', and the document is titled clan-rules

Inkwash anon here.
I want to avoid using official miniature hobby focused products for this project.
I'm thinking about using more flow aid and I plan to buy more flow aid today for the job.

The main idea is to create a homemade acrylic wash stains flat surfaces little and stains recesses and raised areas a lot.
It can be achieved: https://youtu.be/ktB6bgwpyOc?t=491

I assume that the main ingredient of speedpaint medium is flow aid so I assume more flow aid is necessary, but I'm not sure about when there is excessive flow aid and what problems that will cause.

>>96071246
Update. I did some searching and found some sources that say that glaze medium might be what contrast medium is. The Ink is already transparent enough so maybe the addition of glaze medium will make it more transparent so that it stains flat surfaces less.

>>96071688
>update again
After looking back at the link: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/261541.page
I think I added too much black ink to my first wash and I'll try and keep it at 20 drops of black ink to ideally get pic related's effect and not worry about getting an actual black wash. I have to try and get out some extra colours.

Maybe the acrylic secret was already there and I just messed up the recipe by adding too many ink drops.

>>96071246
>>96071688
>>96071873
Journey of an apprentice alchemist.

>>96070429
>This is such a cool rule how did I forget about this.
Because spacemarines ignored it.

>>96071985
Indeed it is an arduous one.
I'll admit I've spent more time mixing inks than actually making them to try and find the right colour.
Funnily enough mixing muted turquoise and carbon black 50/50 produces an ink colour similar to ArmyPainter's dark blue tone so I think I'll go with a tone like that or something close enough for the blue acrylic wash.

>>96070402
Something like the New Mordheimer would also be a value-add but I don't think there are any plans currently for that or any other kind of rules committee or blog.

bumo

>>96072242
How many mixes did you try so far?

So I looked hard for any FAQs applying to the 4th ed Tyranids codex but all I found were ones for the 3rd ed book, so I'm going to assume those can be ignored and there's nothing for the 4th ed book?

>>96074230
Just one but I don’t think it counts at the moment. I was disheartened when my black wash looked grey but in retrospect I think it is supposed to.
I just kept adding more ink drops until I got the current mix from trying to get a darker finish.
I did mix some sap green with black and and brown. Made a darker green and learned that brown pigment I think it was transparent raw umber is a strong pigment that overpowered the green quickly.
The maroon color seems like a good red wash on its own but I mixed some black with it for good measure.
These are all just inks on a palette before I go and actually put them in a bottle mind you.

I don’t really want to turn this into the ink bible project though so I’ve mostly been reading my fourth edition codexes in my spare time when not mixing inks.

>>96069183
I can do guard. starting monday since i have the 2nd codex. Please tell me if someone has started it since the og anons post. Clarify if additional regiments and armies (cityfight, elysians etc) ought to be included as per third point.

>>96074299
There was one, quite short though don't think it ever got updated beyond the first pass in the same year the codex released. I'll re-upload a zip I scrounged from /GROG/ a while ago that includes everything some legend managed to scrape off the old GW website, has 3rd-books-for-4th & 4th FAQs plus ones for rulebook & FW also a bunch of little rules & scenario bits - gofile DOT io SLASH d SLASH BHoPVu

>>96074844
I plan to run a wet brush over my washes base and see if the formula reactivates as soon as I can just in case.
Shouldn’t though.

I love gooooold!

>>96075040
If it reactivates send an email to Army Painter and tell them now you know the feel.

Whatever happened to that /fourk/ thing? Or is this it?

>>96076771
/fourk/ got derailed had infighting over conflicting ideas and petered out.
This one seems to have more momentum and someone at the helm that can stay on target like an X-Wing pilot and wrangle us together.

>>96076786
>got derailed had infighting over conflicting ideas and petered out
Many such cases.
Sad!

Hello and well met.

I have spent most of my day poring through and converting the Dark Eldar 3.5 codex (with IA3 to the best of my abilities. May it be of use to you fine gents.

catbox .moe/1n7qfw.zip

>>96076808
...and goddammit, I realized I just missed something. Oh well.
files (dot) catbox (dot) moe/ivpizl.zip

>>96069183
I'll take a crack at Eldar

>>96076808
>>96076903
Ork anon here, thanks. It looks good, we'll proofread it down the line. It has been added to the mega with the others

>>96076944
Much appreciated. Please make sure to get the craftworld supplement on a separate section. With that, I believe all the xenos armies are pending, it'll just be chaos and the remaining imperials to work on. Godspeed to whoever grabs the guard, there is so much shit in there with the IA material.

I think I'll work on either witch hunters or Daemonhunters next, gotta see which would be quicker.

>>96077068
>Much appreciated. Please make sure to get the craftworld supplement on a separate section
Now that I'm looking at it, it seems like the one in the mega linked here >>96069183 is 4ed, but the pic is saying 3ed is the one to go. Just to be clear, it is 3ed, right?

>>96076808
Excellent! The list grows thinner and your mark is on this relic forever.

>>96077097
you are correct. I had copied someone else's archive without fully knowing what 4th ed pieces were in there. try this link instead for eldar.

https://mega.nz/folder/5aBlHKyA#oT4acdUxXiSVuf8G-7L6zQ

>>96077068
>I think I'll work on either witch hunters or Daemonhunters next, gotta see which would be quicker.
alright, starting with Daemonhunters, may also do witchhunters after if it is not claimed by someone else.

updated list of codices

>>96079444
Everyone missed my guard claim Smh

>>96080897
excellent, i did miss it

Eldar anon here, I'm done with the base codex, but there are a few problems.
>pages 36-37 (namely, Farseer/Warlock powers, vehicle upgrades, and possibly part of the wargear) seem to be missing from the scan
>there is no separation into one-handed and two-handed weapons anywhere like in the other anon's transcripts
Am I supposed to add that myself?
>no types for most units
same question

>>96082133
Here's the fixed codex scan
https://gofile.io/d/Qzv8tm

And there's no separation for two-handed weapons because the Eldar don't have any two-handed weapons.

>>96082455
Single handedly crushing their enemies.

>>96072242
I'll tell you one thing though, every youtuber with a video on how to replicate contrast medium or lahmian medium are predictably nowhere near. A shitty substitute at best.

>>96082455
Much obliged, back to work then.
I tried finding a different scan, but they were all the same with missing pages.

Tyranid codex special rules, weapons, biomorphs, and HQ section is finished, with the FAQ rulings written right into the relevant areas. Will continue banging away at it this week.

Got a fun battle report for you all from yesterday. Full disclosure its not exaclly 4th ed since its my m41.999 homebrew, but its 4th ed in spirit so I think you will all enjoy it anyways.

Battle report 20250712
Tyranids vs Space Marines, 1250 points
Mission: Capture Point, secure and hold the objectives (the gold coins) to score points throughout the game.

Tyranid Forces:
1 Hive Tyrant with 2 Tyrant Guard, 1 Malanthrope
2 Hive Guard, 3 Zoanthropes
40 termagaunts, 17 Hormagaunts, 6 tunneling ripper swarms
1 Screamer Killer Carnifex (proxy with regular), 1 Stonecrusher Carnifex

Space Marine Forces
1 Terminator Librarian
5 Terminators
20 Tactical Marines
10 Assault Marines, 2 Landpseeder Typhoons1 Landraider Godhammer

We actually swapped armies for this one, I played with my friend's nids and he used my space marines.

>Round 1:
Armies deployed in opposing corners, tyranids winning first turn. With my only real shooting being my hive tyrants venom cannon (and my zoanthropes out of range), most of my army runs forward as fast as they can down the center, with my hormagaunts moveing over to the left to secure an objective. An unlucky run move means my gaunts will have to wait until their next turn to move onto the bastion with my other home side objective.

On a side note, when we were setting up the table we had 2 of the corners blocked out cause someone was doing hobby stuff there, so we played on this zig-zag Tetris shaped board.

On the space marines turn they also moved forward to try to claim the center objective, holding their rear with terminators and posting up a plasma cannon on their other objective atop the refinery. Land raider las cannon and tactical plasma guns fire bring one carnifex down to 2 wounds, I should have been more careful he was too far from the malenthrope's sporecloud. Assault marines work their way around the power plant.

>Round 2:
I always forget some pictures in a game, but this turn was more uneventful, my carnifex regenerated 2 of his lost wounds, but sadly failed his charge by tripping flat on his face. My gaunts secure my bastion objective. On the Marines turn, he gunned down my poor screamer killer, but not before it barfed plasma at a landspeeder and blew it up (albeit with the help of the hive tyrants venom cannon who may or may not have done all the work. I would have shot at the tactical marines seemingly in the open, but his Librarian cast force dome. A bad scatter on my rippers deep strike meant they popped up right next to the terminators. It meant I was able to contest the objective, but they all died instantly to a hail of bolter fire and lightning claws.

>Round 3:
Lots of assaults this round, the stonecrusher, the hive tyrant, and the malanthrope charge into the librarian and the big tactical marine squad in the center. The Squad is nearly decimated down to 2 men, and the malanthrope does some nsfw tentacle H-game stuff to that librarian. They all flee, it is a glorious day for tyranids as I consolidate onto the center objective.

But then the space marines strike back, assault marines charge into the hormagaunts, and boy is it not a good day to be a hormagaunt. 7 are crushed unto boot by the power armoured marines as they fly down through the sky, and the chain swords make short work of all but the last hormagaunt. Only 3 marines were slain. The second land speeder deep struck in my back lines, attempting to gun down my hive guard but just fails to kill them both. The rallying marines make short work of the wounded stone crusher, between a plasma fire, las cannons, and the terminators assault cannon he is brought down.

>Round 4:
The deep striking land speeder is brought low with a brain blast from the zoanthropes, killing it in a fiery explosion! The rest of this round was madness. The librarian perilsed. My hive tyrant perilsed. One of my zoanthropes perilsed. It was brain explosions all over the place. Then in a heroically poor judgement the librarian tried to tank the venon cannon, rolled a 1, and died.

>Round 5:
My flanking force is late to the party, but shows up in time to finish off the tactical squad plasma gunner and plasma pistol sergeant. The gaunts I had holding the point sacrifice themselves to kill as many of the assault marines as they can, but are mostly just forming a wall of bodies. With the hive tyrant desperately chasing the land raider.

On the marines turn the terminators make mincemeat of my second gaunt squadron.

>Round 6:
In a hail marry attempt, the 2 zoanthropes both fail to hit the land raider, and I give in and the space marines are declared the victor, winning 9 to 8 victory points. It was a really fun game, a lot of big moments for both sides. If I had managed to kill the land raider with some lucky brain blasts the hive tyrant might have been able to mop up the rest of the marines, but alas maybe another day.

Question usually sniper rifle have Strength X and their rule says their S is equal to their target T.
But when rolling against vehicles they roll a D6 for penetration.
Outside of the meme Genestealer cult vehicles with Armor Value 9. I can't think of anything with 10 or lower let alone within a D6.
Am I missing something?

>>96083385
Not sure where you are looking but thats not how snipers work in 4th ed.

>>96083464
Brain fart was looking at the 3rd rulebook

Alright, Eldar Codex + Imperial Armor looks like done.
gofile. io/d/DveIKg

>>96082133
looks like others answered this, unit types weren't a thing till 4th, so they added them retroactively at the end of the 4th ed core book for existing units. page 264, but there's a screenshot here.

>>96076771
>>96076803
/fourk/ was way too fucking ambitious. An entirely new edition of the game PLUS new codices is a monumental task (to say nothing of how Prohammer already exists if you want that)

>>96083754
Very nice, added to the archive

>>96083754
There are some typos btw (Fire Dragoons).
Also it looks bad, layout-wise and style-wise. Dunno if the plan is for the SRD anon to do a formatting pass on these to homogenize all of them to have the same layout and style considerations (since the SRD does actually look quite nice, almost professional even).

>>96084073
>format
Right now the plan is for anons to transcribe the rules correctly into easy copy-pastable plain text files so that we can format them using a template later on, either by the afpubanon(s) or by the githubanon(s).

>>96069168 (OP)
>these are the "good guys" edition
yes.

>Gee, Ulthwe, how come Eldrad lets you have two army lists?
Craftworld Eldar codex and Ulthwe Strike Force done.
Also fixed typos hopefully and added types in the main Eldar Codex.
Will do Harlequins tomorrow.
gofile. io/d/iGLIZr

Tyranid Codex almost done, I found some free time tonight after work. Will do the rest tomorrow, then Imperial Armour IV. What else are we including besides those? Any of the 3rd edition chapter approved stuff, is that still legal for 4th?

I wanna say I appericiate the work all of you are putting in this project

Are new models for old armies getting backported to this system? Sorry I haven't been keeping up with the threads.

>>96086349
Consider reading the OP

>>96086667
Kek. Yeah, that sums it up.

>>96083464
Ah shoot, some anon made me write 2D6+S for Armor Penetration instead of 2D6 no Strength bonus. Is your picture the final official ruling concerning Sniper or is it the original version before errata?

GSC vs LaD
Not having any form of armor save with GSC really hurt more than I suspected. While the Sv4+ of the zombies made them way more resilient than either of us expected.

>>96082455
>refreshAppdataAccountsAndSync getAccountActive Failed to fetch

>>96088088
It's a temporary host I don't know what you expected, anon already got it

>>96087081
That screenshot is directly from the 4th ed rulebook. As far as I remember in 4th ed no sniper weapon has a strength value. In later editions snipers changed to strength 3 and rending, or something like that. Snipers have always sucked lol.

Which detachment makes Space Marine infantry the most durable?
Is it the Black Templars?

>>96082826
I agree they’re just pale imitations of the real stuff.
That said even the pale stuff is serviceable.
But I’m currently mixing inks and plan to keep everything under 20 drops In the “soft body” range as the dakkadakka recipe link says so it hopefully does not stain flat surfaces that much. I spent my hobby time just mixing inks and forgot to check for reactivation so I’ll do that hopefully tonight.

Something I've noticed in old photos is how they paint Plasma coils in either green or grey. What's up with that? Really liking the green look.

Harlequins codex done
Also fixed further typos in the other codices for real this time
gofile. io/d/iGLIZr

>>96079444
I'll take witch hunters

>>96090303
you lack in chains. put more on or you could be mistaken for a ultramarine.

>>96069183
Why aren't the points costs for grenades listed in the 2007 4th edition Blood Angels codex? It just lists them in wargear with no points cost. Are you just supposed to know a frag is +1 point and krak +2 points?

>>96092088
I think space marines all come with them already in 4th

>>96092281
I have the 4th edition Black Templars codex and the points costs for grenades are listed in there so idk

Had a cool moment related to the project, someone local finally took me up on playing some 4th next week. Turns out he lurks here and knows about the thread. rock on, i'm looking forward to our game, local space wolf anon.

>>96092088
didn't use the 07 WD for ours, we have the 3rd ed book for the doc as the white dwarf dex was after the cutoff. I imagine that one was just supplement so you'd go off the space marines list, but eh, not something i know for sure.

>>96091355
Cool, i will update our list.

>>96091051
Added to the mega, godspeed elf anon.

all we have unclaimed is Chaos, assuming nobody abandons theirs. (please, if you can't do it for some reason, life gets in the way, whatever, tell us so someone else can take it over)
hopefully that won't be the case. Real happy to see how well we're getting along with this.

>>96092886
Chaos 3.5 is daunting, good luck whoever picks that one up.

>>96092869
I think the 07 codex is cool for making assault squads troop choices, enabling an all jump pack army, but yeah it's out of scope for this project.

>>96093022
I took a brief look when handling the relictors. there's so much shit in there it's insane. that's why it's on the heavy portion of the list. Real happy with everyone picking up and handling the lighter ones so far. i'm hoping daemonhunters doesn't take me too long.

>>96092886
I will take it.
I will take the Chaos Space Marines Codex to Microsoft Word.

Redpil me on why the 3rd ed ork codex is better than the 4th ed one (ive only played with the 4th ed one)

Tyranids dude here - how many of the Imperial Armour units are we including? Obviously not bothering with superheavy stuff like Harridans and Hierophants, but what about Hierodules, Trygons, etc? Also what about the Make a Monstrosity from Chapter Approved?

>>96093905
all I can think of are the stonecrushers and malanthropes, but were those in the 1st edition of IA4?

>>96093971
Malanthrope is, Stonecrusher isn't. But Trygons and Hierodules are just Heavy-Supports and not super-heavies so idk if we include them.

>>96091051
There was an update to the harlequins list in citadel journal 44:
https://gofile.io/d/SXHgoN

>>96092088
>in the 2007 4th edition Blood Angels codex
Because it's shit.

>>96093977
>Trygons and Hierodules
Id say naw, those are apoc units just that they hadnt figured that out yet.

>>96094123
Thanks, added it.
Also made me remember errata exists, which I, of course, forgot to incorporate before.
So here are updated Codices, very hopefully requiring no further tinkering.
gofile .io/d/UdaJpY

>>96094410
Also, since Eldar stuff is marked yellow here >>96092886, want to make sure there is nothing I'm forgetting again. I've done
>Eldar Codex
>Craftworlds
>Ulthwe Strike Force
>Harlequins
>Imperial Armour
>Errata

>>96094123
>>96094410
there is a clarification in regards of power blades in the letters section in citadel journal 50.

>>96094442
Alright, here's the hourly very definitely final edition. I've also come across the Chapter Approved FAQ which I wasn't even aware of with yet more changes.
gofile .io/d/kmZdus
>Eldar Codex
>Craftworlds
>Ulthwe Strike Force
>Harlequins
>Imperial Armour
>Errata
>Chapter Approved
If anything else comes up, I'll do it tomorrow.

>>96069183
Why the 4th ed SM codex, don't the 3rd ed BA, DA and SW codicies use the 3rd ed SM codex?

>>96095234
All of those were FAQ'd to work with the 4e book. Should be in the OP files somewhere.

>>96093791

>>96093791
alright, i'll add you to the list

alright, that's all of the codices claimed.

everyone take your time, keep us updated, and upload when you think its ready. once we're to the next section of the book we will proofread them individually and fix them up to match each other.

in the meantime, we still need to proofread the latest version of the core rules and make sure that one is ready for us to add example images and filler art once we are satisfied with the wording of it. Please take a look in the OP at that if you've got some time, and leave a comment/suggestion on the drive for nuSRD anon to update it as needed. I feel that one is quite close to completion, so there isn't likely too much for us to address. Past the images, we'll just need to make the index and the quick reference spread (which we can likely steal wholesale from the original book, altering the page numbers)

>>96096393
My recommendation for the index is to open up the 6th ed rule book and scan through it for relevant entries. The 4th ed index is organized terribly so things are in weird sub categories and it’s not verbose enough. The 6th ed index is much better.

>>96093904
3E still used the armoury system where you just picked what you wanted from a universal list instead of it all being hacked apart into model specific wargear.
4E does have some unique things in it but it (and all of the other late 4E codices) are really more like 5E codices which is when the game started getting out of control with special rules and power creep.
I would like to see some of the more flavorful elements of late-4E to 5E backported (especially for DE) but that’s way outside the scope of this project.

Do Sisters of Battle make an appearance in this battle bible? I've recently started purchasing the old metals and this could potentially be an awesome reason to use them. Let me know anons. Thanks.

>>96098582
Huh. Thanks for the info anon. But out of curiosity, why do you prefer an armoury page to just having each unit entry tell you what they can take? (Not talking about the section where all the wargear rules are, I mean the giant points list for every item). Some things are more and less valuable on different models arnt they? So isn’t it better balance if for instance a power sword on a captain costs a different amount from a sergeant who has less attacks?

>>96098769
See codex witch hunters I think? Pretty sure everything battle sisters was in there, greyknights were in codex deamon hunters.

>>96098893
Wicked, I'll look into that then, thanks anon

>>96092869
Great reward orkanon! You deserve it.

Chaos Anon here.
Should I consolidate the Books of Chaos into the overal lists, or keep them separate?

How reliable is the lexicanum for telling when an imperial armour book was released and what edition it corresponds with?

>>96099375
Forgot to add my bad.

We’re covering the imperial armour stuff too right? I didn’t see anything on the OP about it not being covered so sorry if I misread anything.

>>96099375
pretty accurate

>>96099402
>pretty accurate
There were some mistakes? Which ones?

>>96099375
The first IA book for 5th edition should be IA 6 Siege of Vraks part 2. In part 1 you can see the Krieg lists mirror the 3.5e IG codex.

>>96099151
Separate cause its cool

>>96090303
>"Detachment"
The filthy 40k general is in another thread.

>>96085285
Maybe the codex approved tyranid list, the one with genestealers on drop pods that die by themselves because of biodrugs.

>>96083308
fun read. nice terrain too, anon

>>96090303
>Primaris
NYEH

Chaos anon coming at you again.
Am I correct in assuming that if the unit profile doesn't say anything about upgrading a model to an Aspiring Champion, then the Champion is added on top of the unit limit and only costs the extra points listed, rather than base model cost + Champion cost?

>>96100808
buy 10 csm, 14 points per model
upgrade one to aspiring champion for 13 points
153 points total, 10 models (9 normal, 1 champion)

>>96100961
I see, thanks.
Asking because some profiles mention the upgrade, but others do not.

>>96100968
Yeh this one is tricky I think you gotta interpret from the "+13".

>>96099849
Thanks anon glad you liked it!

>>96083222
not reading any of that until you paint you fucking minis

>>96101498
And cover up my custom conversion and sculping work? Sorry friend Im just gonna keep building new ones.

>>96093904
Lootas can steal weapons from any unit in the game.
Looted Tanks can use any IG or SM vehicle in their codexes (and can be expanded to any other army IA vehicles if your opponent allows).

>>96096393
Busy Summer, hey.

>>96094610
I'm glad for you but also quite sad this journey eventually ended.

Wow, I lurked a few of the original threads of this project and cynically thought it would be a nothing burger, but I guess I was wrong.

>>96094266
Upon further review, I have decided that the Trygon is okay to include, since it only costs 290 points which is less than you can tool up a Carnifex for in the Codex, and it only has T7 W5 3+ save which is not even as tough as a fully tooled up Carnifex that can get a 2+ save with the same stats.

>>96099151
Keep them together as the books are relevant even for undivided should they take marked units. The format for the CSM 3.5 codex is perfect as is and just needs typing up and maybe the books being prior to the unit entry/next to the armoury.

>>96106919
Eh I still wouldn't put gargantuan creatures into normal games, they are beyond the scope. Being able to deep strike a trygon right into combat is pretty freakin strong. And dont forgot about mass points.

I dont remember but are there rules about having to ask your opponent before using FW models? Because a quick once over of the unit entry doesnt seem to give any restrictions.

Getting a little confused with the 4e Marine 'dex
>Scions of Mars trait says 1W models can now take Terminator Armor
>It's not stated anywhere that they couldn't before
So are the 1-cost items in the Armory for 2W's only?

>>96107162
It's definitely stated, go read the Terminator armour entry

Chaos anon here
Work is progressing well, I'm up to Book of Slaanesh now, will probably be done with the CSM codex today and move on to the supplements
There are a few things I have questions about though

1. Should I include generic minor psychic powers list?

2. Daemonic Gifts part says
>only Lords close to being Daemon Princes will have several such powers
I'm guessing it's just fluff and doesn't actually mean that only Chaos Lods can have more than one, since the Limits section says that
>Other characters may spend 75 pts, up to 50 pts of which may be Daemonic Gifts.
But just wanted to make sure

3. The Chaos Lieutenant is listed as Chaos Champion in the summary list. Also the Daemonic Rune says
>The Chaos Champion has been gifted with a Daemonic Rune
Does that mean it's Champion/Lieutenant only, or just fluff again? Also, should he be Lieutenant, or Champion?

4. Collar of Khorne text says that psychic abilities that target the wearer or include him in their area of effect are nullified and will not work on a D6 roll of 2+.
Are the are of effect ones nullified just for the wearer, or in totality, including for other targets?

5. Juggernaut text says that its ability to trample enemies underfoot confers the Daemonic Mutation ability.
Try as I might, I couldn't find any rules for trampling. Is it just fluff and the Juggernaut just gives Daemonic Mutation normally, or have I missed something?

6. Nurgle power Aura of Decay says "will apply to all friendly troops"
Does this mean Troops choices, or all units? I don't think units are referred as troops anywhere else in the codex.

>>96107140
Hmm, I guess you're right, saves me having to transcribe the rules for mass points.

Played my first game of 4th yesterday (dark angels vs nids, I won for the Emperor). I used the late 4e codex to avoid the terrible rule that is intractible, was it ever removed for the original 3e codex? I saw some errata claiming it's removed in WD266 but I couldn't find anything.

>>96107162
I'm probably going to need to fix up the ork and marine armory to be more clear when i do another pass. some things should have been separated that got mixed

>>96107473
1: yes
2: some fluff is just that, we're going by crunch for this doc to avoid confusion
3: i'd recommend checking the FAQ, if there's no difference between a lieutenant and champion, just go for champion. sometimes they forget to replace all text from one version to another
4: check the FAQ, but the wording seems to indicate it is nullified for that model, either when they're singled out or hit with a blast. I wouldn't expect more than that for 5 points
5: page 15 has what you're looking for, right after that it says it confers daemonic mutation, so: daemonic strength: +1 str, daemonic essense: +1 wound, daemonic mutation: +1 attack, all that plus it is cavalry, i believe
6: i think that means friendly models. once again, old wordage being fluffy causes issues.

>>96106884
absolutely fair to assume it would go nowhere, especially considering last year's project. this one's burning low and slow to our advantage. we have focus, and more people are picking up the mantle this time.

>>96099151
I see no reason not to put the khorne demons along with everything else khorne flavored (kharn, etc) as long as there's a summary in the end that should be fine.

>>96107738
Yeah, check Chapter Approved or the 3.5 codex. It also drops the point cost of many units and let's you equip tactical squads with plasma cannons. The 4ed codex sucks, use the vanilla Space Marines codex with the 3.5 Dark Angels book.

>>96107473
>minor powers
No they are not part of the game come 4th ed when all the codices got their own list. Plus, they are all really bland.
>Daemonic Gifts
its all points
>Lieutenant
All chaos characters are considered champions of chaos I think. This is more lingo than it is calling out a specific unit name, which is actually aspiring champion.
>collar of bullshit
totally nullified. Its dumb as fuck considering khornes biggest weakness is supposed to be psykers.
>juggernaught
just fluff, it simply gives the ability
>nurgle power
Troops is not a keyword (4th ed does not use keywords) here its simply english refer to "your dudes".

>>96106919
Imperial Armour stuff should be very clearly separate. It was not fully integrated into the game in this period, and for the most part the game was better for it. Nothing wrong with having it, but this was niche stuff developed by different designers, with nowhere near the amount of playtesting. Good expansion material, but not core.

>>96106919
Personally I think it's a bit much

>>96108299
There are a few small scale things that are fine, like kroot gnarlok riders (the small ones not the big one) and malanthropes that I think are totally fine to include in the main books. In my experience its pretty easy to look at a unit and say "thats apoc" and "that not".

>>96107162
https://www.ageofstrife.com/viewtopic.php?t=77

So what's this all about? Are newer units/armies getting ported to 4th or are you just leaving it as-is?

Chaos anon here again
Almost done with the CSM codex, just some edits left here and there
I've skimmed through all the supplements, and still have a few issues to resolve

1. What is the unit type of Juggernaut and Slaanesh steed-mounted models? The rules say they don't follow the regular steed rules, and the types chart here >>96083906 doesn't list them. I'm guessing Cavalry/Beast, the same as steeds?

2. EC predator weapon options - it says you can replace replace heavy bolterS with sonic blasters, I'm guessing this means both bolters, so you can't have a bolter and a sonic blaster?

3. Ahriman's rules say he can pick a minor power from any table - does this include Slaanesh and Nurgle tables?

4. On the subject of Ahriman, the rules say that as soon as his win streak is over, he can't use psychic powers - does this include minor poowers?

5. Tzeentch minor power rule doesn't mention re-rolling 1 - is this on oversight, or by design?

6. The wording on Slaanesh minor power 2 is
>For every close combat attack that wounds the psyker, but is stopped by his armour save
Does this mean hits but doesn't wound?

>>96110368
>6. The wording on Slaanesh minor power 2 is
The order is Roll to Hit, Roll to Wound, Roll to Save.
So the wording is correct. If the Psyker is Hit, and then Wounded, but rolls their Armour Save, then the effect occurs.

>>96110368
> I'm guessing Cavalry/Beast, the same as steeds?
that's the only thing that makes sense to me.

>'m guessing this means both bolters, so you can't have a bolter and a sonic blaster?
sponson weapons are always in pairs, so yes

3: any means any, both generic minor powers and chaos powers tables of choice, so you're correct there

4: see 3, any means any. no more psychic powers

5: if you're talking about reckoning of tzeench, i'm only seeing that it says he gets to reroll failed hit rolls in shooting, this would include 1's

6: this would mean hits they take which successfully cause wounds, but are saved by the subsequent armor save give an additional attack

>>96106919
if it's from the era, just keep those in the imperial armor section. if they weren't out at this time, save it for future backporting

>>96110412
>if you're talking about reckoning of tzeench, i'm only seeing that it says he gets to reroll failed hit rolls in shooting, this would include 1's
I mean this

Ink wash anon here. I have felt that my ink washed base has been left around for too long so I want to test if the reactivation is safe after like 40 minutes of acrylic drying time. Which I think is the maximum amount of time it takes for acrylic wash to dry.

Also my hobby space is a mess and I really want to try a soft body black wash mix.

>>96110021

please at least read the OP anon.

>>96107809
Thanks, I checked Chapter Approved and it fixes Intractable. Another question, were combat squads a thing in 4th? They're in the Dark Angels 4e codex, but I can't find them elsewhere.

>>96110021
As is. Sadly In order to keep out enshitification like the new retarded tyranid units and necrons with personalities, sadly some of the new things that are actually cool will also not be present. It's the only way to do it without whining by people who dont know whats best for their own good.

>>96111134
I had never played 4th, I started with 5th with the Battle of Black Reach boxed set, but I've now read almost every 3.5 and 4th edition codex, and there is remarkably little from later additions that's worth including. Like, who gives a fuck about Centurions or Thunderfire Cannons. So much stuff was added that seems to have just been added for the sake of having new models, or to sell new models. Like the Riptide basically just makes Crisis Suits pointless etc. There's a couple of things worth including maybe, that legitimately add something worthwhile to the army, like locator beacons for marines, the venomthrope for nids, and maaaaaybe the extra drones that pathfinders get and the turret for fire warriors. But generally it's mostly all shit or OP.

3.5 - 4th edition truly was the peak, and I'm kind of in love with it. Like, target priority makes unit positioning actually matter. Str 4 guns actually mean something, given that there's almost nothing with T5 (basically necron Immortals, and Plague Marines from what I can see). Even Ogryn, which are like the archetypal S5, T5, W3 model of later editions, is still T4 in 4th.

The balance is soooo delicate, we should be extremely wary about back porting anything later.

>>96111612
*editions, not additions

>>96111612
Another thing I noticed - cover is actually REALLY meaningful, and works the way it should. Very few things ignore cover aside from flamer equivalents, with marker lights being the notable exception, but even that requires 3 marker light tokens. It's generally a 4+ cover save, which means it's great for everyone but space marines who only really need it against AP3 and AP2 shooting. And the things that do that level of AP are generally either really dangerous to the user, like plasma guns (unless your Eldar), or are ordnance weapons like the battle cannon, so inaccurate if moving and don't let you shoot anything else.

And then added to all that, it makes you initiative 10 in close combat, unless the attacker has frag grenades, which you actually have to pay for, they're not handed out like candy like they were in later editions.

The more I think about it, the more I love 4th.

>>96090733
Lots of green plasma until graviton came around

>>96108299
Strongly disagree. The idea that mainline 40K was some rigorous, stress-tested machine while FW was lackadaisacal published houserules is just nonsense; both were full of mistakes, OP units, UP units, and oddballs because at the time, the main studio hadn't become completely detached from the true spirit of the game that latterly FW become the torchbearer for as the studio was utterly subsumed by the corpoblob. If we're including Chapter Approved material without a full page of caveats and warnings for every entry then Forgeworld absolutely belongs in the main lists.

>>96110469
I haven't seen anything that says otherwise. Honestly, it makes sense to me that the god of magic gives people the change to re-roll the empty result for magic.

>>96111612
>The balance is soooo delicate, we should be extremely wary about back porting anything later.
This is your emotions/feelings talking, nothing more.

>>96111612
>Like, who gives a fuck about Centurions or Thunderfire Cannons. So much stuff was added that seems to have just been added for the sake of having new models, or to sell new models. Like the Riptide basically just makes Crisis Suits pointless etc.
Some of you are really dumb.

New models are cool. And a soulful game WILL have models that step on each others' toes, overlap roles, and render other things inefficient, because it's not just about min-maxxing BIS in every slot to make the most lethal killing engine you can.

>>96111777
The only thing I would bring back are things for GSC, mostly because their current 3rd rules are just ass and not fun to play.
But that's about it and I would not give them free deepstrike I would make it like the storm troopers from the guard that you have to pay for infiltrate/deepstrike for each squad.

On the topic of backporting I wouldn't mind bringing Pr*maris over so noobs can play without rebuying their army but I'm conflicted on how to go about all the Bolter variants
>A: Add them all
>B: Strip it down to something like Gravis guys get +6" and Phobos guys get Assault 2 or something

>>96113216
having not played marines since before primaris, i don't even know what they have now. i guarantee most things can just be considered existing weapons or specific weapons can be made to fit this era in the backport. whatever you do, for the love of god don't make them a separate thing from normal marines.

>>96113216
Primaris are just tall marines.
They have nothing older marines didn't have the few different things are retarded and should not exist anyway

>>96113216
A marine is a marine and a bolter is a bolter.

>>96113216
I sincerely hope you're involved in a car accident that leaves you crippled from the neck down, in constant agony, shitting into a bag for the rest of your long, miserable, pain-filled life. /tg/ is doing one, ONE good fucking thing for the first time in years and you're trying to shit it up with this absolutely basic-bitch-tier attempt at trolling. Or you're just so colossally retarded your tiny worthless peabrain was incapable of grasping why trying to drag Primarishit into an explicit "modern 40K sucks" nostalgia project would be received. Either way you deserve endless suffering.

Really surprises me how they never made any articles giving you more presets for the Chapter Traits mechanic besides Red Scorpions in IA.
That said what the hell were they thinking with these Blood Ravens traits?

>>96113216
You should have your legs shattered by jackhammers

>>96112577
Variety is the spice of life but bloat is bad for game design. When you have too many things that overlap you inevitably end up with min/maxed units cause all things else equal, one of them is going to be better than the other. It’s also important that not every faction has all the answers to all problems for uniqueness and identity. This is why you have to stay strong and tell the weaboo fucks that in fact no we do not want ninja sword crisis suits. So no a ‘soulful’ game doesn’t have bloat, it has a thoughtfully curated collection where each choice is intentional.

But if I were willing to cross the line drawn in the sand I would love to have some of the 9th ed new necron models. I love the war of the worlds / half life 2 walkers. But it’s not worth opening up the floodgates. This is a walled garden.

>>96113737
Eli5 I never played dawn of war.

>>96113822
Then you need to start removing options from Space Marine books. Maybe all of the books. No role overlap, and all codexes should be within 1 or 2 total number of unit choices as each other!

You don't know shit about game design. You're just a revanchist turd. Min-maxxers will min-max with or without backporting. The soul of 40K is kitchen sink simulationism. Not minimalism with unique asymmetrical faction mechanics.

Literally less than 50 people in the entire world will ever touch this project on an actual gaming table, though, so ultimately backport vs. no backport is irrelevant.

>>96113216
What >>96113242 and >>96113315 said, most of their shit can stand in for the regular marines'.
If you really can't help yourself, I'd strip it down to a single version ("Bolter").

>>96113822
This, 110%

>>96113937
I could not disagree with you more. Are you one of the people working on the codexes? I sincerely hope not.

>>96113937
>simulationism
>in a game that never once "simulated" morale, suppression or command & control in a remotely realistic way
lol

>>96112514
Care to elaborate?

>>96113216
I think the better thing would be to allow people to use primaris miniatures as old marines, and just have like community guidelines on what primaris stuff counts as what oldmarine stuff.

Rules-wise, Primaris are completely unnecessary, and change marines from the flexible elite generalists they are supposed to be, to Eldar but tougher. Lore-wise, they're an abomination that shouldn't exist. But a decent chunk of the models are pretty cool.

>>96114087
Proxying something like Devastators might be a bit tricky with how few and far between heavy weapons are. Of course, you could always use spare bits but still.

>>96114111
Primaris kinda do have all the heavy weapons covered across their various units, just split up between Tacticus and Gravis. It will be deeply unattractive, but people might just need to use like Hell blasters as plasma guns/cannons, the melta Gravis as meltas, heavy intercessors as heavy weapons etc.

Or alternatively, 3d print stuff.

>>96113937
It’s amazing how the only people mad at walled gardens are the ones the walls are meant to keep out. Stop pissing yourself in public anon.
>revanchist: holding and wanting policies to reclaim what is rightfully yours
Yes.

Are we cataloging missions/scenarios from 3rd & 4th Edition?

>>96114155
I hope. And I have the same question regarding Cities of Death - are we doing that too? I hope so, because it looks fuckin sick.

>>96113937
>>96112577

Please don't let this person anywhere near any decision making.

>>96114155
yes, this is
>>96069168 (OP) >Stage 4: Make an Optional Rules supplement for the SRD.

>>96114309
That is kinda why we settles on just typesetting plain old 4. We picked a mid 2006 cutoff date. Nothing after that is being used. There is no discussion making to be had. We are just working to compile a nice cohesive set of all the official faqs erratas white dwarfs and what not into one spot. Think of it as a conservation project.

a lot of the recent arguing in the thread is about shit we aren't close to touching. the inclusion of backporting is optional and won't affect your local games unless you allow it to, nor will it destroy the 3.5 core we're making here, you will be free to engage or ignore it locally if you want. consider it as optional as allowing apocalypse units or named characters in the current form, only if you both agree.

>>96114390
exactly. conservation of a specific era first and foremost, having all the info in one place, then if we want to add to that in another form later, individuals are free to do so

So is the plan to eventually format the new codices to make them look nice? Or are they always just gonna be plain documents?

Chaos anon here yet again
The codex is pretty much done, the only things left are adding extra units and the summary list.
New batch of questions, probably the last

1. I guess this is more of a fluff question. Regular CSM with the mark of Tzeentch automatically become rubrics. Is this exclusive to a TS army, or can you field sorcerer CSM in a non-TS army?

2. The havoc launcher profile changed from 3ed to 4ed.
R48 S4 AP6 Heavy 2, Blast
vs
R48 S5 AP5 Heavy 1, Blast, Twin Linked
respectively.
Which one do I use?

3. Certain wargear is only marked with an asterisk at the aspiring champion cost, does that mean independant character terminators can't take it?

>>96115347
Thousand Sons == rubric marines, the words are equivalent. Like tissue and kleenex. Whether you agree with this or not due to changing times is up for debate, but im pretty sure the term rubric didnt even exist.
3.5 csm does not differentiate between "csm with mark of X" and their named special unit. See page 29.
csm with mark of nurlge ARE plaegue marines
csm with mark of tzeentch ARE thousand sons
csm with mark of slaanesh ARE noise marines
csm with mark of knorne ARE berserkers.
The separation from regular dudes with marks and even more special versions was not introduced until 2007 in 4th ed. Personally I liked these new units but even as far as 6th edition the thousand sons were not called rubric marines. In fact in 7th edition when they were introduced later as an expansion, in the CSM codex they are still called thousand sons. Only in the Thousand Sons codex are they ironically called rubric marines...

>>96113737
Pretty sure there was a collab project over on B&C at some point to tweak and expand the Trait system. Outside the scope of the project being fanrules but I'll see if I have it in case anyone's interested.

>>96115465
>Thousand Sons == rubric marines, the words are equivalent. Like tissue and kleenex. Whether you agree with this or not due to changing times is up for debate, but im pretty sure the term rubric didnt even exist.
Yeah, I'm just asking because the CSM variants list mentions how not all berzerkers are WE, not all plague marines are DG, and not all noise marines are EC, but the TS part is just about TS.

I'm finding it very hard to work out what things supersede what other things. Like, all of the chapter approved stuff is for 3rd edition, so are we only using the stuff in there for 3rd ed codexes, but not 4th?

And like one of the files in the Mega folder for Orks is called Imperial Amour Update 2006, which includes units like the Gunwagon that aren't in the codex, but also includes the Battlewagon, which is in the codex, but adds the Krusher as an option, which isn't in the codex.

>>96115484
Yup found'em: gofile DOT io SLASH d SLASH 2zdMkO

>>96115347
Oh, and one more thing

4. Night Lords are the only ones who are specifically prohibited from dedicating vehicles to any one god, while WB, IW and AL seemingly can. Is this by design?

>>96115530
I think you can narrow it down to: if a 3rd ed codex has been picked, use 3rd ed Chapter Approved stuff with it. If 4th ed codex, only 4th ed stuff. In other words, don't mix and match. 4th ed codexes (both the good ones and bad ones) were designed to overwrite the previous material.

Imperial Armour is entirely separate supplemental stuff. However it's being organized should make that clear: it was never in core, though some of it is a lot of fun, especially the IG stuff.

>>96114146
"Garden" implies life and growth. What's being created here isn't going to be alive and isn't going to grow. It's a sepulchre to nostalgia.

Even among the people who typed out the rules there will be individuals who never play an actual game of 4th in current year and beyond.

>>96115706
what would you prefer?

>>96115631
And one more one more thing
5. Warp Amp vehicle upgrade lists 2 different costs - 20 in the books of chaos, and 15 in the overall list. Which do we like more?

>>96115631
Quite, seeing as the rest of the section makes it pretty clear that the Night Lords are as a whole quite hesitant on actually serving Chaos, hence why they can only pick Undivided marks and summon Furies. The rest are either devoted enough (WB) or just use Chaos as a tool (IW and AL)

>>96115465
>>96115517
I interpret as Tzeentch's gift / MoT given to Tzeentch worshippers outside of Thousand Sons just get a different effect (I.e. theyre not dust) but the nature of it is functionally the same ruleswise. For example they are that mindfucked unless they have innate psychic ability and need directing etc. Admittingly its ratehr lazy by GW but theres not much else you could do ruleswise to make them different whilt keeping with the theme.

Thousand sons =/= rubricae. Ruleswise they do but thats due to laziness of GW for that book. If anythign Tzeentch's thing would be buffing sorcerers which the list allows just it makes the rest of the army boring without somethign else to throw in and they lazily copied the Thousand Sons lore for them.

For the chaos 3.5 codex theres one retarded detail that never got FAQ'ed. For larger games choasen are limited to a max of 40. However, given the unit entry you can only take 39 which is stupid all things considered. I personally would change the retinue number from being an X9 to X0 to resolve the issue.

>>96115726
Something novel enough that you could approach someone who started after 4th (or better, after the deathknell of 8th) and successfully convince them that it's worth trying and potentially better than what they play.

Even just something that's 4th++, a version of 4th that has more to offer, that you could convince people who liked 4th to play. I still have a bunch of friends who I played 4th with and there's not a chance in hell I could get them to play it again just because it was collated. Been there, done that, saw the seams.

>>96113216
No dont this would ruin my BT army which is primaris models for marines and the same with a BA player in my local. The primaris aspect is a retarded meta lore thing by GW. Everyone with a brain just ignores the stupid weird stuff and treats them as just regular marines.

TLDR: play marines in 4th using the new primaris models as theyre just space marine bodies you stick weapons to anyway.

I'm pro-backport, but the Primaris comment was just dumb trolling I think.

It's trivial to proxy Retardes as any other type of Marine. You can't really proxy a Wraithknight or a Tervigon or new Tau suits.

>>96115999
Yeah I thought that was weird. I thought maybe it was to leave the 1 space for an aspiring champion, but they can all be aspiring champions, so I don't know anymore.
So, change it from
>4-19 Chosen can be used to form retinues for the Chaos Lord and the Chaos Lieutenant
to
>4-20 Chosen can be used to form retinues for the Chaos Lord and the Chaos Lieutenant
?
Or make it 5-20 for a nice even split?

>>96115069
they are going to look like the core doc, they need proofreading first

>oh sick the thread has a bunch of replies!
>maybe we hit 1.0 and I can start downloading stuff
>open thread
>Primaris trolling

>>96116067
Just change the 19 to a 20. So that its 20 for retinue and 20 for the elites choice. If you up the lower band from 4-5 you make terminator lords with 4 retinue unable to fit inside a landraider.

The aspiring champion choice is purely there for a retinue to either be amazing tier or just a bunch of regular vets, and for the elites choice to have a designated 'leader' in them.

I assume you have already but if you havnt I would add in the changes/clarifications from the erratta for the chaos 3.5 codex into the document as it clears some things up such as how weapons and psychic wargear dont count towards the wargear limit.

Alright enough about backporting and Nuhammer. That comes later and really homebrewing should just be a gentleman's agreement.
I'm trying to find the rules for Blood Pact Renegades for the Lost & the Damned I 100% know exist. Anyone have them or any leads?

>>96116330
I realise what I said implies you cant make ALL chosen aspiring champs. You can just people thematically might not want to. For instance in some scenarios/armies Ive built I make all my chosen aspiring champs regardless unless I dont have the points as it makes them your dudes tier mini gods especially after you add all the wargear in.

>>96110922
>black ink makes red ink brown
Looks like ultra matte medium is going to lighten the maroon ink to a brighter color. :(
Maybe I’ll find a dark red ink on Amazon for the red wash.

>>96116009
In other words, you're a novelty-addled ADHD numpty and you associate with fellow retards, so this thread isn't for you and whatever shitty ideas you have for "fresh" ideas to ruin 4th with. Plenty of people are out there playing older games without complaining or getting bored, I've had a regular WHFB group that's been playing 6th since 2002, we stopped for six months after the whole End Times/AoS debacle but otherwise every few weeks we get together and play the game. Mordheim too, I've been running campaigns for that at least once a year pretty much since the game came out. None of us are bored of them, and I never had any issues recruiting new people when necessary - I just made sure to avoid soul-sucking vampires like you. Like the man said, the only people who complain about gatekeeping are the ones we're keeping out.

>>96115655
Mixing and matching is fine IMO, just do what makes the most sense in each case. In the anon you're responding to's case, there is no conflict, Imperial Armour is *intended* to supplement the codex, so if it adds stuff you just add it.

>>96116009
I’m not gonna lie, playing pure 4th does interest me. I have my own nearly complete (no orks yet) homebrew that my friends and I play. But I still am having a good time helping out and chatting here.

The thing about homebrew is that as soon as you cross the line of unofficial stuff, there will always be people who don’t see it your way. Getting people to accept any change that isn’t instigated by a distant unreachable authority (GW) is a nearly impossible challenge of pandering and placating and begging. Ironically it’s always easier to convince someone to accept a homebrew if you told them you found it online rather than that you wrote it yourself. Which I guess is fair cause writing rules is hard and wow some people suck at it. There are cool parts and ideas to nearly every edition. 7th Ed is notoriously aweful but it ironically has some of the coolest rules for eldar aspect warriors for instance.

A part of this project is just to see if we could since Fourk fell apart. I made the last thread for four and not a single person replied. Having something that everyone can agree on is a great starting point, then other things can be left as an exercise to the readers to tailor for their own groups (cause let’s be real they are going to anyways)

>>96117437
Doesn’t*

I move that we call the future backports, fan projects and otherwise the Apocrypha of this Battle Bible, keep that label for later threads and focus heavily on the core doc right now. i've only added a couple suggestions to version 0.98a, and haven't gotten to really read over the doc for actual changes since this week has been busy with both work and projects (i'm painting up some space hulk terminators, they're going well)

I'll be focusing on reviewing the core book and completing daemonhunters as soon as i can, hopefully getting traction if not completing it this weekend.

>>96118240
Agreed

Chaos anon here
The only thing remaining now is Vraks
Going to bed now, will probably have it done in ~12 hours.
But first more questions

1. About Imperial armour unit roles - I'm guessing named daemons are substitutes for a generic greater daemon, and the drop pod is transport, but what about the titan?

2. Spined beasts, it says, is a daemon, but it only mentions stuff about getting whacked by anti-daemon stuff. Do the regular daemon summoning and instability rules apply to it?

3. Also, it says only monogod legions may take spined beast and giant spawn. The others I get, but about BL? The codex even calls them the quintessential CSA army, but these 2 guys are too cool for them?

4. I have skimmed through the guard codices, but haven't found the profiles for the autogun and autopistol the LADs are using. I eventually found the autogun in Siege of Vraks 2, but the autopistol still eludes me.

5. In my quest for the autopistol stats I have come across profiles for a Silver tower and cultists (different from the Alpha legion ones). Do I include them? Silver tower is from 2008, and cultists are from 2001, so they could be relevant.

6. Chaos hounds are the only follower said to be able to ride in transports. I get if a chaos spawn can't, but what about the thrall wizards? They are just dudes.

Also, I am once again asking for clarification on these parts
>>96115347

>>96119057
And a follow up one
7. Mutants in LAD army may count as having Daemonic Visage, which gives -2 Ld if all models have it, but the mutant description only mentions -1 (which is the effect for just one model)

>>96119057
To my recollection in the 4th era auto & las guns/pistols were interchangable.

>>96116338
There is the Blood Pact Death Brigade Squad for LatD and a suggestion for unit choices. It's from WD293 Index Malleus and can be found on google. For the 4th IG Codex, GW had the following suggested Doctrines to represent Blood pact:

SKILLS AND DRILLS: Iron Discipline
Infantrymen can survive longer in battle.

SKILLS AND DRILLS: Die-hards
Being outnumbered doesn't affect the unit.

SKILLS AND DRILLS: Hardened Fighters
Infantrymen have a better WS value.

ALTERNATE ORGANISATION: Grenadiers
Storm Trooper squads are commonplace.

SKILLS AND DRILLS: Veterans
May include more than one Hardened Veteran unit.

>>96119358
Thanks. Which one's going in the compilation though?

>>96110922
>>96116525
>>96071873
>>96071688
>>96071246
>DIY inkwash-Blogposting incoming.
Alright so if you lads remember I deviated from Lester Bursley's ink wash recipe a bit using Ultra matte medium and Liquitex inks (there was a sale at the time).
But I am going out on a limb and assuming that I screwed up big time by deviating from the recipe in those respects. It might be the ultra matte medium.
Every ink mix gets comically lightened for worse and I guess as this general's alchemist it is time I get new ingredients to see if it will make a difference.
I've invested too much into backing out now. And quite frankly I just generally love the act of DIY experimentation. I am feeling the same joys I felt as a kid when I would test out new Lego building techniques I would learn from browsing Flickr and sometimes modifying them, but of course as an adult I have yet to learn that sometimes some things are best the way they are even if you were to try and modify perfection.
That might be the case with my DIY inks. I tried to modify the perfected parts of a system instead of sticking with what already worked.

I'm doing this more than just for the hobby and this wonderful project, I'm doing this because I actually have learned to enjoy it despite making mistakes along the way.

I need your energy bros. I'm going shopping for the correct ingredients and to be more faithful to Lester Bursley's .

Why do BA Chaplains have a 110pt tax in the FAQ?

>>96119761
Both obviously. The Index is an actual new unit for LatD 3rd, while the doctrines are just an example of how to use IG in 4th. The same has example doctrines for Guevesa, GSC and Admech armies.

>>96119868
And for that one anon, I checked the base for reactivation.
I didn't see anything so either I need glasses now or I think were in the safe that Les Bursley's ink wash doesn't reactivate.

>>96120016
>zoomer frogposter
>can't read an entire paragraph
They come with d3+3 death company.

>>96113216
Main issue I can see is the base size, since you'd be able to spread out further to lessen blast effects

>>96123375
Could always use the cityfight rules for blast and templates if you're concerned about that.

>>96123375

print another set of oversized blast templates to use against units using oversized bases. They deserve it.

>>96123429
Perhaps add a mark to each base as a referance point? so you measure from the mark rather than base edge for distances?
Idk , I suspect adding nubases might be a stretch goal sorta deal, like new hormagants are 3 mm bigger so they technically better at covering ground, if you are that autistic

>>96081568
Update, got a job and didnt have time to get on it. Im starting tomorrow. The idea is to get the Codex finished first and later fill it in with additional rulesets (Cityfight, CA, IA)

>>96096393
https://gofile.io/d/fyOJHk

Tyranids 4th ed complete. The only supplementary material I ended up adding for now was the Malanthrope. We can talk about the Gargantuan Creatures and the Seeding Swarm variant at a later stage.

>>96124723
Woohoo! Kuddos anon, you did a solid. At this point I think it's fair to say /tg/ is back.

>>96123375
How much of a difference does base size make in 4e?

>>96125925
hmm, well bigger bases mean you can spread the unit futher ot and thus take less hits from templates, now when going from 25 to 28mm you need to spread out 10 at max distance line to cover an extra 30mm (so like an extra inch) compared the original size. So it's a difference.

>>96117437
>I have my own nearly complete (no orks yet) homebrew that my friends and I play
Do you have a link handy, anon?

>>96119868
>>96120168
You got this anon! We believe in you.

>>96126804
I'll make one soon.

>>96124723
>>96125800
Quick mention, I realized if you change the font it might break the tab spacing on the unit/weapon profiles and stuff, so the font family my notepad used by default was Consolas, try setting it to that if you have any issues, or you might have to fix stuff manually when you transfer it into another format or whatever. Hopefully it's not too much of a pain.

Chaos Anon here, 99.9% done, just proofreading and fighting the formatting now, and also waiting for someone to hopefully answer my previous questions.
>>96115347
>>96119057
>>96119095

>>96127652
>Consolas
Are you me?

Once we're done compiling the SRD, we should do battlescribe/new recruit files for each of the armies. Battlescribe only seems to go back to 7th, and then skips to 2nd

>>96130023
But newrecruit does have 3rd armies even random crap like clowns and gsc

>>96130023
>>96130541
I've been slowly but surely chipping away at porting over 3.5/4e data. Should be starting the Eldar once I'm done with Feral Orks

>>96130663
Amazing, you're a legend. Are you adding them as extra armies into the 3rd edition dataset for New Recruit, or are you creating a new 4th edition dataset?

>>96115347
1: on the page describing the specific kinds of alternate troops such as berserkers and thousand sons, it says that lords, lieutenants, chosen, possessed and aspiring champions taken in a normal marine squad with the mark of tzeentch are Sorcerers. normal marines with the mark are elites unless they are lead by a model that also has the mark of tzeentch

so in short, yes, you can take sorcerers in non-TS armies, if it is any of the options i said above with the mark of tzeentch. just know regular marines will be elites if not lead by someone with the same mark.


2: the later 4th ed book is after the cutoff, default to the one in the 3rd ed 2nd printing codex as that was the era we're working with. the wargear book is a great resource to make sure everything you have is updated for 4th. https://mega. nz/file/8KQ2GIgR#H7kCEiVZ1DzFGh2OgOMbcZUr4itCOdVeuiCQpsoQamc
3:the first value is for independent characters, the second value is for aspiring champs and veteran squads. if you see "-" then it may not be taken by champs or vets. no restrictions for terminators other than what the terminator armor says (no jump packs, etc)
>>96115631
4: Night lords say this specifically, but iron warriors also say they can only take the mark of the undivided. alpha legion specifically says only the cultists may take icons to summon and not the marines, and marines may only have the mark of the undivided.

>>96119057
1: apocalypse seems to have been a more "smash your whole collection against your opponent" and did not use a proper force organization chart at the time (which is pretty fitting and cool) so titans and other super heavies didn't truly fall into a specific category, but you'd be fine to label them as heavy support as i did with previous entries for orks and marines

>>96132018
contd

2: i have no reason to believe that this wouldn't be summoned like a normal daemon unit
3: so it says the spawn may be taken by a chaos marines army, and the spiked beast may be taken by both marines and lost and the damned, i think it mentioning the monogod armies is to let you know that those aren't restricted from taking it, so black legion should be fine as it is a normal chaos marine army.

4: see my previous post about the wargear book, towards the top, that has everything you need.

5. cultists are fine, but silver tower is after the cutoff (mid-2006). i hate to say it, but vraks in general i think is after the cutoff

6. not sure where thrall wizards come from


>>96119095
default to the one in the actual book instead

>>96124723
added to the doc for later proofreading

>>96132022
>vraks in general i think is after the cutoff
Imperial Armour didn't suffer in the same way white dwarf and codices did. It just kept on adding extra units and variants on the 3.5 guard codex.

>>96130908
Yeah I'm building off of the 3e data & tidying up what's already there & adding missing stuff.

>>96132018
>so in short, yes, you can take sorcerers in non-TS armies, if it is any of the options i said above with the mark of tzeentch. just know regular marines will be elites if not lead by someone with the same mark.
What I was asking if gadren variety CSMs can have Sorcerer skill instead of Rubric Sign skill if fielded in a non-TS army, since all fluff relating to it is TS-exclusive.

>. if you see "-" then it may not be taken by champs or vets. no restrictions for terminators other than what the terminator armor says (no jump packs, etc)
That's the thing, there is wargear with 2 values, but it's the aspiring champion cost specifically that's asterisked, no "-"s. I'm guessing that means Terminators pay the aspiring champion cost even if they are independant chars.

>Night lords say this specifically, but iron warriors also say they can only take the mark of the undivided. alpha legion specifically says only the cultists may take icons to summon and not the marines, and marines may only have the mark of the undivided.
Vehicles are dedicated via vehicle upgrades, not the marks, and while you normally need the mark to access a particular god's armoury, vehicles can't have them, so I assume they can take the upgrade for any god unless stated otherwise. It doesn't even say that you need a commander or at least one unit with the mark to dedicate vehicles.

>cultists are fine, but silver tower is after the cutoff
Here's the thing, I kinda forgot where I've seen those cultists and haven't saved them anywhere.
Also, silver tower seems to be intended for Apocalypse anyway upon closer inspection.

>but vraks in general i think is after the cutoff
Oh well, it was in the mega folder along with the other files, so you'll have it whether you like it nor not to do with as you please.

>not sure where thrall wizards come from
It's a piece of Tzeentch wargear in books of chaos, it's not from any supplement.

>>96132366
>cultists
Nevermind, I've found it. It's from Chapter approved 2001, and there's also a daemon prince profile. The thing is, that's from before the 3.5 CSM codex, so don't the AL cultists and the new Daemon Prince (Chaos Lord with stuff) overwrite those?

>>96132366
>if gadren variety CSMs can have Sorcerer skill instead of Rubric Sign skill if fielded in a non-TS army
i don't think so, normal chaos marines only seem to get it on the AC if they have the tzeentch mark, and those get moved up to elites. regular troops wouldn't get that without it. ICs have the sorcerer upgrade on their profiles so that's what would give them access in a normal CSM army from what i can gather.

>I'm guessing that means Terminators pay the aspiring champion cost even if they are independant chars.
Lightning claw 25/15* points
first value is for independent characters, second value is for aspiring champions. if it's an independent character in terminator armor, they take the first value. if its an aspiring champ in terminator armor, they take the second value. the asterisk just says that terminators in general can take it, the value would depend on their status as IC or AC.

>dedicating vehicles
yeah, i think that's basically the equivalent of the mark so i don't believe these mentioned armies can take it since undivided is their schtick

>vraks
if you're already into it, just go ahead and keep them in and we'll sort it out later. worst case scenario we add them with the backports. no biggie. same with silver tower.


>thrall wizards are a follower wargear upgrade for sorcerers
they should just be considered infantry and can ride in a transport with the sorcerer if taken, though they will take up a capacity slot like any model would in said transport

>>96132479
i'd default to the 3.5 book since it is newer. 50+ points of daemon upgrades makes you a daemon prince instead of a chaos lord. easy enough.

>>96132366
>no "-"s.
there ARE a couple i saw, Daemonic essence isn't available for AC, Skilled rider isn't available for IC, but i will agree those are pretty niche and the only examples I see in the armory.

>>96132770
>the asterisk just says that terminators in general can take it, the value would depend on their status as IC or AC.
Alright. I was just confused because some wargear has the asterisk next to the name, but some other to the value.

Anyway, here's the stuff, and thanks to every one who contributed. I guess the real ruinous powers were the friends we've made along the way.

gofile io /d/Jyd1uK

>>96113737
Supposedly these rules for the Steel Confessors were given out at Games Day 2005
>https:// steelconfessors . angelfire . com/

>>96133123
cool, i got it uploaded, here is our current list

Fourth edition doesn’t have a big problem of L shaped terrain right? I want to be free from it.

Has this already been posted?

Keep whores out of this thread please.

>>96133907
Behead thots and play with their bodies.

>>96133865
4e was made when 40k was a hobbyist's game instead of a borderline card game, meaning you were actively encouraged not only make /yourdudes/, but also have them fight on cool thematic terrain like what you'd see in old White Dwarf photos

How do y'all compare 3rd to 4th personally? Which do you find more fun to play or otherwise more, dare I say, "soulful"

>>96127214
Thanks!
>canadapost might strike denying me my ingredients for my alchemy
This is not good hopefully I get my crap on Monday.

Thank you glorious bastards for doing this!
My health's gone to shit but I am with you in spirit brothers! Only with a solid foundational understanding of the rules and options available to us, can we attract other players to the glorious 4th Edition!

Emperor Protects!

Hi anons, I just had my first game of 4th (small 500pts game) with my Goffs vs my friend's White Templars. It's pretty cool and all, but I came out of it a little disappointed with my orks. Despite the Waaagh buff and the choppa's save nerf ability it felt like most of my boyz hit like wet noodles. That S3 really hurts against Marines, can't even scratch them most of the time.
Is this expected? Am I doing something wrong? Don't take this for powergaming whining, it's just that it felt wrong.

>>96134432
4th improved on 3rd by a lot while keeping the soul alive. a few flavorful things fell by the wayside, but it was necessary to keep the game solid. i played both 3rd and 4th and 4th was the better of the two because of this and being actually able to find shit. it never really felt as good to me any edition after.

>>96135057
godspeed and good health, i hope you'll be rejoining us soon in better health.

>>96135192
this has been an issue with orks for a while, which i want to address in my fan codex when this is all completed (my goal is for fans of each faction to make their own "greatest hits" between all the best parts of each faction, and matching the lore). orks DO hit like trucks against normal infantry and have good staying power, marines are tough to crack, but you have to make sure you're getting the proper number of attacks and not shortchanging yourself once you're in combat. +1 for charging, +1 for choppa and pistol combos, which means your basic boy with choppa and slugga should be hitting for 3-4 attacks each at either initiative 4 or 6 for the nobz (y'know, da ones with da good stuff) if the WAAAGH goes off properly. you want to stack the deck in your favor by having enough boyz and getting them in a good position. if they get the alpha strike on you, there's not much you can do about that as you'll be hitting at minimum attacks with a lower initiative, but getting stuck in early is the key.

i'm going to be getting a game in next week, also against marines, so i'll report back when i've given that a shot.

Do heavy weapons teams count as "heavy infantry" in the SRD?
It says 40-50mm for base sizes but for the longest time base sizes for the Imperial Guard heavy weapon teams have been 60mm when I swear I think the previous Cadian box guardsmen were on 65mm bases.

>>96135827
there isn't really a heavy infantry unit type, it was just an easy way of saying heavier models like nobz, terminators, hive guard (old version), etc. use the base it comes with. back in the old days there were only 25mm, 40mm, and 60mm bases for everything to go on. a few extra mm really doesn't change the game at a fundamental level. (25mm was too small for marines from the get-go. i would have taken 32mm on them from the beginning if i could)

I got a 3e game coming up. I mostly played 5th (Black Reach box bits and pieces) as a teenager and a little bit of 1st Kill Team. Getting back in my old age with some money and free time, I got one book of 10th and instantly knew it wasn’t for me. Gearing up for HH too but 3.0 is looking grim. What I’m trying to say is: power to you guys. This is the best thread on this board. Fuck all haters and fuck any retards trying to backport modern slop. Ignore them, they’re just the bitterest of trolls (vindictive) or people so self obsessed that they lost their imagination (sad). I’m totally gonna use this in the future. Thank you guys, truly. Thank you and God Bless

l>>96134664
Also holy shit, alchemy-anon is a Canuck too? You poor bastard. Hope you’re at least in the west too. The post is gonna strike again? Fuck sakes, what a useless institution. I don’t read the news, too depressing. Power to you as well brother

>>96135989
>The post is gonna strike again?
There's a vote going on and union head is urging for a "no" vote. So chances of a strike look to be high for me.

>>96135989
>>The post is gonna strike again?
>There's a vote going on and union head is urging for a "no" vote. So chances of a strike look to be high for me.
This may mean that my DIY ink washes may be delayed in arriving.
And my ventures into 3d printing miniatures may also be delayed as well.

>>96134432
4th but I prefer Prohammer rules with the old codices overall

>>96136186
What will be the differences between the SRD and Prohammer?
Sorry if this causes an edition war.

Pic related will be my face when it does. Sorry in advance if that is the case.

>>96136228
The SRD is still 4E. Prohammer is a full 5E fork and designed to be cross compatible with codices from 3E to 7E (though my friends and I mainly stick to earlier stuff).
Its a good version of the game imo. Adds some complexity like having to declare all of your shooting attacks before you actually roll any of them or letting you reaction fire on your opponents turn but I also like hex and counter wargames so the additional simulationist mechanics are a big plus for me.

>>96133916
>>96134000
>reported
>warning for off topic
>in fucking 4chan
Holy shit, you'd think that one (1) sexy girl with the 4th ed rulebook would sit well with the tastes of the anons in this thread. I guess I understimated your butthurt autism, and you must be fake grogs or muslim, because any real western 90s kid would approve.

>>96136228
>>96136186
I never heard of Prohammer before. Currently reading through the thread for the 2.0 version and it's design choices and it's incomprehensible to me that GW never even tried to implement half of the stuff. It wouldn't have changed shit in their sales numbers or how many kinds of primaris they had sold, but we could have had a halfway playable ruleset. Instead they even feel the need to fuck up their absolute last pieces of useful paper with HH3.0.
Anyway have a bump and I'm monitoring this thread and try to help, once I get a hold of my WD PDF's.

Are we going to do the Genestealer cult list from Citadel Journal 40?

Also, is the Kroot merc list being done as a standalone thing, or is it being done as part of the Tau codex.

>>96135764
See, that's the issue. I was charging with a group of 13 boyz to auto-trigger waaagh and I was on the charge, so that was max power and still too little damage. My 5-man Skarboy squad managed to do a lot more despite being much smaller and failing to trigger waaagh in the two occasions they charged.
I'm tempted to house rule S4 for boyz, but I feel like that's cheating, specially since I've already houseruled full special weapon squads and BS3 grots.

>reading 4e core after reading 10e
>actual morale effects, the byproduct of which is having more of the game board actually matters due to how falling back works
>fighting is actually serious fucking business since you might just get a unit wiped by a unit with high initiative in one turn
why did 40k get so gay? I can even sort of overlook IGOUGO for this kind of good shit

>>96137204
Oh I forgot
>leadership tests to focus fire so any unit on the board can't just be effortlessly focus fired to death the turn it steps out of L blocks of terrain
This shit makes 10e look like fucking Mario Party

>>96137187
So in other words, you're playing a horde faction like an elite faction and are surprised you're not doing well? No offence man but seriously you chucked 13 Orks at Marines and you're surprised you didn't blast them into the shadowrealm instantly? You think Grots are supposed to be for shooting things? They're a walking screen for other units that can occasionally pick off an enemy or two not the equivalent of trained soldiers.

If you're footslogging increase the size of your units(and you didn't forget a Klawnob, did you...?), if you're using Trukkboyz then choreograph your assaults so you're firing at least two such units into a single target. Stop trying to win a game with Grots and use them for what they're good for - forcing leadership checks to target your good stuff, giving your Boyz a cover save, and being a living carpet when you need to move through Difficult Terrain. You can't just replace learning to play the army with houserules to take away all their disadvantages man.

>>96135192
Orks low S and I have been an issue plaguing them for practically the entire history of the game until they canned everything in 8th.
While I agree they should go up one pip in S, they can still mulch any like infantry on the charge through sheer weight of dice. Orks as a race has 2A base (more of elite) so charging in with boyz will give you 4 attacks each which is a whole lot of hurt. The Nob should also be single-handedly annihilating multiple enemies per combat.
The big thing is to not get caught flat footed and you must always be the bully as Orks. They don’t stand up as well to receiving combats as they do at dishing combats.

>>96132366
Anon you dont have to take the MoT to be a sorcerer. I dont get where you are getting the idea that you have to int eh first place? You take a Lord, Lt and they have a section under their unit entry saying:
>can upgrade to be a sorcerer for 10pts
The other exception is one model in every Chaos-Chosen UNIT (I.e. you can have 3 max in a standard list, one for each retinue and one for the elite's choice) can be similarly upgraded for 10pts.

The MoT opens up further options but does not remove these. Every Aspiring champion in regular CSM squads becomes a sorcerer and the marines become rubricae. They can then upgrade to become terminators whilst remaining troops. Chaos-chosen essentially become a unit of sorcerers and dont have the rubricae sign (I.e. theyre not retarded). They can choose whetehr or not to even bother buying powers or not, and can choose whether to buy terminator or not. You can give all 20 or whatever winds of chaos or do other stupid shit as theyre all individuals (regardless if they take the AC upgrade or not) but realtsically no one would ever do that as its expensive and clumsy to use.

TLDR: sorcerers arent required to take the MoT.

>>96137187
>13 ork boys
Anon, thats basically a nearly dead unit in most games.

>>96137445
>>96137627
Did you guys ignore the part where I said it was a small 500pts game? I could not get more boyz in, plain and simple. And that 13 Boyz unit got the maximum number of attacks I could lay on my opponent's five-man Marine squad for as far as the charges reached. Hell, I made the other squads minimum size so I could pump the boyz up to the maximum I could. Maybe I could've done without the Killer Kan I had, but fuck that, it's my favourite model.
I can't see those seven extra boyz making any change because they're still gonna hit like limping hags.
And no, I didn't forget the Nob with klaw.
>>96137539
I tried going on the offensive as much as possible. The small Skarboyz did behave a lot better despite being only five guys thanks to their S4 (suddenly I could hurt Marines, wow!). I'm sure boyz will hurt guardsmen and other flaccid noodles well enough, but marines feel like a concrete wall.

Honestly, I'm thinking to just stick to shoota boyz.

>>96138574
Youre playing at a pts level where medium elite units (which arguably marines have by default) win due to the stats. You shouldnt be expecting boyz to do anything but be meatshields if they have no numbers even at 500pts. You may as well of taken more models in your harder hitting units if you didnt want to drop the killakan. Boyz need numbers to work, especially vs marines.

>>96138637
Fair enough, but we're deviating from the core issue and it's that boyz just feel weak. Sure, one could offset that with sheer numbers, but it still doesn't feel good. I came in expecting crushing stampedes, but came out feeling like I played melee Tau.
Oh, and I didn't mention it, but I still won the game, mainly thanks to the Skarboyz and Burnas, but it was a sour victory.

>>96139026
Did you take 3 Burnas in the squad of Boyz? Cause they're power weapons.

If you failed to kill 5 marines with 3 power weapons and a power klaw nob, that just sounds like terribly bad rolls, which is neither the boyz fault nor yours.

And statistically, 12 Boyz with choppas would kill about 4 marines on average, even without the power klaw or weapons. So it sounds like unlucky rolls regardless.

Do we have tournament result data from 3rd-4th edition era? Being able to chart this could at least present approximate strength over this period, especially if we chart wins by date and see if things change when someone went from a 3rd to 4th codex, or if they got picked more or less often, etc. Rather than a very small sample size's gut feelings, an optional fan-patched codex might be better if you can actually substantiate any decisions beyond "my gut instincts tell me it shouldn't feel this bad". It's not a simple system of interactions, even small changes can have massive impact. Is it better to give Boyz +1 S or is it better to reduce PPM? What are the consequences in practice of either change against all other unmodified codices?

>>96136679
Hang yourself soon

>>96139145
This really isn't the place for this kind of autism. Houserules will never be used outside of your group anyway and do you really need a comprehensive meta analysis to go for +1S or -ppm? That said old results do exist, but the data won't provide what you are looking for, as tournaments were usually house ruled to begin with (very hard in whfb and less so in 40k), some with meta rules like fair play points.
Example:
>https://www.tabletoptournaments.net/t3_tournament_results.php?tid=5216

>>96139373
The Warmaster Rules Committee gets pretty autistic about making small changes in a much more consistent system (meaning, armies are a lot more like each other there than in this game) for balance, so while patches to a codex is beyond the scope of the project IF you were going to shill a houseruled edition because "man Orks just don't feel right" it would be better to have fancy statistical analysis to justify your changes than... having nothing. Assuming of course, you wrote those changes with the intent of having other people agree they are good and worth using.

>>96107749
I noticed in the ork SRD doc that the profile for the Kustom Mega Blasta was wrong - Str 8, no blast, should be Str 7 & Blast.

>>96138574
My advice only applies *more* at low point value games anon. Orks can't build fancy flexible lists at that value, you drown them in Boyz or you drown them in Boyz. If you're feeling very posh, you can no wait that's still the same: Boyz. Orks are the Platonic Ideal of the phrase
>Quality has a quantity all its own
and you have to lean into that. They're *meant* to struggle 1v1 vs a Marine because a Marine profile is meant to represent a genetically engineered supersoldier and an Ork profile is meant to represent a barbarian that sometimes gets so pissed on fungus ale it falls over backwards into the privvy when it tries to take a shit. They're ded 'ard(T4) and they know how to fight(WS4) but there's no reason for them to also be supersoldier-strong. They can't be good at *every* aspect of fighting.

Klawboss is 85, 14 Slugga Boyz(boss goes here) is 126, 15 Slugga Boyz w/Nob is 146, 15 Grots w/Slaver is 54. Leaves you 89 points to chuck in a couple more Klaws or some heavy weapons to taste. At full whack your Boyz should be putting out four attacks each on the charge forcing saves on 4+ with five Klaw attacks from the Nob or Warboss, and Waagh means they should be hitting first.

If you can't put a dent in Marines with *60+* attacks even if most of them are S3 then you're cursed by fate because nobody should be rolling that low that often.

>>96139132
No, the Burna Boyz was its own squad. I'm aware of their power weapon status, but had all of them just mass roast a squad of marines (those templates are so much fun). The boyz was all choppas + the single Nob power klaw.
Maybe I rolled badly, but given that I wound of 5+ I'm gonna roll badly most of the time. At least with shootas it's funny.
>>96139947
I actually viewed orks as glass cannons who hit hard but fell like flies (mainly due to their low armor saves, or straight up null ones in the case of Kommandos). I guess I judged them wrong.
But man, are ork lists seriously that inflexible? I thought "green tide" was just one of the many ways to build them. Jeez, I get saving on points and all, but I don't wanna get rid of my Kans, I love them, specially after the hell that was building them (old metal Killer Kans, not the current plastic ones).

>>96140151
Youre playing at 500pts. You cant really play them any other way as you have no flexibility or points to spend after troops tax or other 'tax' coverage stuff. The game isnt designed for that level of play. Its intended for around 1500 and works all the way up to 3000 after which you need a board where its basically several battles going on at once.

>>96140270
Ah, ok ok. Thought you meant in general. Yeah, small games are restrictive. We're planning to bump it to 1K for the next game.
3rd and 4th have more emphasis on 1500pts instead of 2K like Nu40K, right?

>>96140503
Nta but I really like 1000 and 1250 point games. 1000 point games are nice because you have to be really meaningful in your choices and it hard to make a skew list that actually wont just backfire, and 1250 are nice because they are similar but you get to bring another toy or maybe two. Personally the standard 6x4 board is too small for maneuvering and positioning in 2000 point games, it just feels crowded.

Making good progress with the Witch hunters, will be done in the next few days.

>>96140942
What are your impressions on Witch Hunters compared to the modern incarnation? Since you've been looking closely at it.

>>96140503
The whole reason they made 3rd was to allow for bigger games to be playable with the simplified rules, because 2nd was a very clunky system for large forces above about 1000-1250. 4th is just 3rd with a few touches of refinement. So you should be able to play 2k games with it without a problem. Just keep in mind that it had smaller models and bigger tables back then. Space Marines were still on 25mm and the biggest thing in the game was the Land Raider, there were no Knights or Riptides, and the minimum recommended table size was 6x4.

>>96141685
Gonna be honest, 2nd sparks my interest as well, but after giving the rules a quick read I learned why people avoided big games.

>>96136861
I know. Shit like being able to split your fire makes mixed wargear loadouts for things like tacticals not objectively trash.
You too can run a flamer and a lascannon and not feel like a complete retard!

>>96142022
I like 2nd but it's basically only playable as a combat patrol game

SO what Codex's are OK'd for Prohammer? sorry for asking here. but if its the defacto third through seventh game whats holding me back from using 5th editions Demon rules and fighting against a seventh edition grey knights army?

>>96142056
Ork anon here. That's actually an issue my friend ran into when attacking my Kans. Was running a tactical unit with Combi-Melta sergeant and HBolter marine. The Melta disabled one of my Kans, but the rest did crap (hbolters could only pen on 6+, and bolters just can't). Asked me if he could split fire, but were surprised to find out that's exclusive to Tau Battlesuits with specific wargear.
Once we get more games in we'll see if we like house ruling split firing but with penalties, something like "you only hit on 6+ on the second target".

>>96142256
iirc anything from 3e to 7e is kosher

>>96140893
People like you jack off to orgasm denial porn, and should be executed.

>>96140503
Yeah at 1.5k you can start you get fruity with Orks. They actually get really fun and varied, especially the alternate lists like Kult of Speed, but at the end of the day most lists are going to include at least a couple of big blobs of Boyz of some description if for no other reason than to tarpit the things that will damage your shiny stuff. Proper Green Tide is *hundreds* of ladz on the tabletop and honestly it's kind of a dick move army at normal point values both because really it needs to be tailored against(all-comers armies rarely have enough dakka to deal with them) and it takes aaaaaaaaages to take your turn. But at 500, it's Boyz or nuffink.

>>96142283
Did they keep Combat Squads in the 4th 'dex? I forget. If not look for that rule I think in Chapter Approved and make it a houserule, it's a good compromise for Marines; you can split up your special and heavy into two separate units so they can shoot more effectively, but with only 5 bodies in each unit the tradeoff is you might get shot off the board easier. Not *as* big a problem in 4th given it still has Target Priority rules.

>>96142610
It does look like they removed them

>>96142022
Ive played large (not apoc size though) games of 2nd and they take ages depending on the units but its very fun but clearly not balanced. It didnt help that my opponent was often a tyranid player who had 8+ genestealers or 14+ gaunts swarming any CSM unit. Its funny when a nurgle terminator chaos lord NEVER dies and just wades through killing everything, or when your sorcerer 1v1s a large creature.

>>96126804
>>96127365
Alright here you go anon. I didn't finish pushing through my last rounds of updates, but I wanted to post it before things get busy for me for the best few weeks. The space marines codex is the least complete cause it mostly only has rules for models that I have.
https://gofile .io/d/oSZD0K

Baker needed lads!

>>96144837
what?

>>96145271
We need new bread

new thread
>>96147320

>>96142310
this is just so confusing, theres no unified codex for prohammer?