I have a handful of AD&D 2e books I've inherited from my parents. Used to play them when I was younger, but these days have moved on to mostly Pathfinder. Have been looking through them again and thinking about the fact that they pretty much expected all characters to be rolled for, which I always remember feeling a bit unfair because you'd often have maybe one player getting higher stats than normal, and other players getting lower stats than normal, no matter what rolling method you used.

One of the methods recommended in the book though, for being able to guarantee a particular character, involves starting each ability score at 8, and then rolling 7d6. You can assign any number of dice to add to an ability score, as long as you assign all of the value of each die, and the ability score doesn't go above 18.

Hypothetically speaking, if you say that every player should do this, but instead of rolling 7d6, is given the stat array of 1,2,3,4,4,5,6, would that make an ideal point buy system for AD&D 2e? I've tested around with what combinations of ability scores it can give you, and it appears that every class *is* playable under it, even the ones with four ability score prerequisites (the Paladin and Ranger, though you have little room to optimize them). I think some people might think it breaks the spirit of the games, but I think you can still enjoy the grittiness of older D&D with consistent character builds. What say you, /tg/?

Point-buy doesn't really work in pre-3e D&D. Most stats have no significant mechanical effect between 8 and 14. All your point buy does is end up creating massively min/maxed builds for each class.

>>96070883 (OP)
>Point buy in old D&D?
Don't.

>>96071015
Scores between 8 and 14 make a humongous difference on nonweapon proficiencies, even if you aren't getting specific bonuses. Same with bend/thieving/scroll learning and so on.

>>96070883 (OP)

I suppose I'd have an array where you could assign a 16/17, a 15, a 13, a couple 11s, and an 8. And then tweak that based on the setting(eg how Ravenloft and Birthright are meant for more low-powered games).

On the other hand if you find a group to play 2E with you I assume the jank and nostalgia will be a huge part of the appeal for them.

>>96070883 (OP)
D&D isn't meant to be balanced.

>>96070883 (OP)
Just be a man and roll 'em up. Ability scores aren't as important in 20th century D&D anyway.

>>96071089
>Scores between 8 and 14 make a humongous difference on nonweapon proficiencies, even if you aren't getting specific bonuses.

Do people really use nonweapon profiencies? Even if they do, players will just select NWPs for high stats while avoiding those that use low stats.

>Same with bend/thieving/scroll learning and so on.

Which is even more reason for the appropriate classes to maximize Str/Dex/Int/Wis while leaving unimportant stats at 8(or 9 for Charisma) to prevent penalties. All Fighters are going to insure they have an 18 Str, all Thieves an 18 Dex, all Clerics an 18 Wis and all Magic-Users an 18 Int.

Pre-3e had even less reason for most classes to care about their non-primary stats than later editions.

>>96072139
>I suppose I'd have an array where you could assign a 16/17, a 15, a 13, a couple 11s, and an 8.
That would lead to Fighter's bitching about not being able to get an 18 for exceptional strength and Magic-Users to bitch about not having an 18 Int for 9th level spells.

>>96072179

I mean, realistically 99.9% of campaigns aren't going to be long enough for the heroes to have level 9 spells.

Our campaigns would usually wrap up by level 15. And that was when we were in HS/college in the pre-smartphone era so a weekly 6+ hour game was viable.

>>96072217
While true some players will still complain about that sort of thing. The bigger thing is Fighters complaining about not having 18+ Strength which is actually where a lot of their damage is.

I think it's fine either way, but rolled stats work better if you're going to have players make skill rolls. Reason being characters with too high of stats kinda break skill rolls. More middling stats makes that system more interesting

>>96072179
I mean, at that point why not just say "you can have an 18 in your primary stat?" It seems like that's what you're doing with more steps in favor of a randomizer that you don't like.

I love the art, the willingness to take risks, and myrid settings of 90's DnD.

But it just feels so unintuitive. Like Thac0 should have been replaced by ascending armor class after the first edition.

>>96072179
>Do people really use nonweapon profiencies?
That's like asking if people use skills. Unless your campaign is nothing but combat, the answer is no shit they do.

>>96073745
Default skill roll is roll under the stat, but you can add modifiers if the task is particularly difficult. It's not completely broken.

>>96070883 (OP)
2E D&D is literal dogshit. Sell the books to a chump and play real AD&D

>>96070883 (OP)
youre a fucking retard.
kill yourself asap

>>96071015
It matters a lot for NWPs, which are roll under stat modified by the slots. It also matters for class qualifications.

>>96074344
>using nwps
lol
lmao even

>>96074218
>Default skill roll is roll under the stat, but you can add modifiers if the task is particularly difficult. It's not completely broken.
Did you reply to the wrong anon? I'm asking, if having an 18 your primary stat is so important to you, don't you just stop with the illusion of randomness and make sure each class just has the 18. Everything else just seems like theater to appease some idea of "d&dness"

>>96074344
well yeah, 2E is actual hot dogshit for retards

>>96074381
i once had a AD&D dm who let us put all 18s at char creation

>>96074402
Did it make much of a difference?

>>96073767
modified d20 roll-THAC0 = AC hit is not unintuitive if you've finished 3rd grade.

>>96070883 (OP)
Roll 3d6 in order, reroll each 1 ONCE.
Best I can do OP, more than that is faggotry

>>96075212

Gygax says 4d6 drop low as default and then crazy alternative shit like roll 12 characters up and pick the best six stats or roll

>>96075247
Funnily enough when Gary was running charity games at Gencon during the late 1990s, he'd have players roll 3d6x7, place as desired discarding the last.