So I'm new to wargaming and ttrpgs. And surfing this board I just have one question....is there any one edition of any game that tg can kind of agree on that was actually "good"?

I know about the current Horus heresy drama, I know the drama around all Warhammer editions, the DND hate, and even now bolt action complaints.

I know the stereotype is that people will always bitch about new editions but I am genuinely curious if there has ever been a rough consensus on a good edition/game system.

/tg/ doesn't agree on anything, but there are a large number of Anons here who wrongfully agree that D&D 5e is either great or "fine for what it does".

>>96083930 (OP)
i think yes, but its mostly board games. i havent seen anyone saying dune or root or catan are bad games. plenty of people dont like them, but i dont think they argue that those games are bad on a technical level

GURPS is loved by everyone here

>>96083930 (OP)
That’s a fat squirrel

>>96083930 (OP)
Anon's not a hivemind, bro. People will like certain things that other people dislike. I think the closest you might be able to get to a universal opinion is that |spoiler]FATAL[/spoiler] sucks, but I won't be surprised if someone decides to be contrarian on that for shits and giggles.

>>96084276
>root
Nah, I've seen people say root is objectively bad. Something to do with the different factional rules.

D&D 3.5 is the greatest edition of all time. Simple as.

>>96083930 (OP)
The games that are "good" are more "good but not for me". Even the saltiest Anon has to admit some games are truly good and have objectively effective or elegant design.

Examples include:
Wargames- Sharp Practice, Never Mind the Billhooks, SAGA
TTRPGS- GURPS gets a lot of deserved love here (I don't personally play it but I respect it and it achieves what it intends to accomplish), OSE is pretty respectable for a B/X clone especially as an example of excellence in rule simplicity and formatting (good modules too). ACKS, ACKS 2, and Pendragon are excellent examples of RPGs that give you "more to do" in terms of domain building, down time, and other pursuits- and do this with excellence.
RPG settings- Harnworld is universally loved by those who know it. Dark Sun and Eberron are widely considered excellent in spite of their setting
For tactical TTRPGs I think Lancer does a great job for what it tries to accomplish
Niche- Speaking specifically to Star Wars, you'll have your preference for TTRPG but nearly everyone agrees that the FFG system and WEG D6 system are the best and while different, both deliver excellent Star Wars games.
Board Games- You might not spend the 12 hours to play it but Twilight Imperium deserves a TON of credit, Twilight Struggle (completely different end of things) is also near universally celebrated. Republic of Rome is probably a near-perfect boardgame for what it sets out to do

I think for those who KNOW about these examples, there's probably a >90% "this is really good" assessment of each of them. The trouble is, people are more likely to be vocal about things they don't like.

>>96084304
lots of people seem to hate the root RPG, i havent seen the board game get hate. well, except for when the vagabond is playing kingmaker, but that's a skill issue

>>96083930 (OP)
Does any board have anything that's universally agreed on as good? Or even on the criteria for being good?
There are some things that hardly anyone hates, because they aren't popular enough to care about if you aren't into them. Warmaster is well liked but not widely liked because GW have hardly looked at it in two decades. And maybe Epic, but the editions are different enough that they have quite different draws.
RPGs are far too dependent on the group, and particularly GM, to ever earn anything universal praise.

>>96083930 (OP)
All systems have their upsides and downsides. The only good system, therefore, is the one whose upsides you enjoy and whose downsides you can tolerate or overlook.
Though everyone I've talked to seems to at least not hate Gaslands, go figure.

>>96084276
I dislike Root for its scoring mechanism, and how it turns the game from "COIN lite with forest creatures" to uninteractive, almost literal whack-a-mole, or playing multiplayer solitaire until you're forced to smack the leader with a stick. Maybe I just don't get it, but in all the games of it that I've played I did not have fun at all.

Arcs, on the other hand, is pretty fucking good. The push and pull of Ambition scoring, limited resources and limited actions, making sacrifices to place a bet that can be turned against you, it's so perfect. And yet there's still people hating it.

>>96083930 (OP)
Everything has it's strengths and weaknesses. A bit part of wargaming, tcgs, and ttrpgs is the social aspect and having a good time with good company can make a bad game fun. So ultimately a lot opinions are shaped by the experience anons have had. Also, many of these games have been around for decades so the memories of older editions are sometimes heavily influenced by nostalgia and imperfect memories of how things worked

>>96083930 (OP)
no, and thats why the industry chugs along. people want different things out of their games.

>>96084740
for /fit/, starting strength 3rd ed

>>96084386
>For tactical TTRPGs I think Lancer does a great job for what it tries to accomplish
communist propaganda with a crappy dnd hack shell?

>>96085061
>picture of one tranny
>anon seethes since 2019

>>96083930 (OP)
tg only hates popular stuff, so you can generally assume that any game that gets widespread hate on tg is good.

>>96083930 (OP)
That would require them to play games. Most of the people here have only played 40k, dnd, and/or mtg and have primarily negative things to day about it. Which I guess makes the answer "no".

One part of it is nostalgia, another part of it is that newer editions often dumb down mechanics or try to emulate other games that are popular to get a broader audience. It leaves a bad taste in the mouth of older fans for most of those games. Also a lot of games, mainly GW ones to be honest, are doing a rapid fire approach and release editions constantly without much thought for balance or fun.

>>96086059
Lancer is literally communist propaganda. It certainly has nowhere to belong in a thread about games everyone agrees is good.

>>96083930 (OP)
Lasers and feelings.

>>96086213
It's ok to play lancer but you have to balance it out with a session of myfarog after.

>>96086213
This just reads like the California disclaimer to an otherwise banger game. Even dnd has a California disclaimer now, they're pretty normal.

>>96086445
>they're pretty normal
So are shitty games.

>>96084292
Its a woodchuck anon. A fat one

>>96084048
Depending on we agree on what it does
Contain bad players

Everyone likes Traveller.
>>96084287
Yes.

>>96086213
>>96085061
You know what, I'm the original poster of >>96084386

I wasn't aware of how bullshit Lancer's people were. Thank you for showing me otherwise. They're dropped.

>>96084931
Gaslands is universally loved, yes.

>>96085047
I'd declare 2ed AD&D the true /fit/izen peak. It's peak BROSR

>>96086273
Sorry, no. PbtA faggotry and storygaming (this includes one page trash-tier "rules") do not belong in the conversation.

"You have two stats, LASERS AND FEELINGS, GET IT?" Fuck entirely off.

>>96086445
It's no excluse.

>>96087034
Traveller is on the list of universally loved.

>>96086445
>to an otherwise banger game.
every mecha guy i know hates it because it's just what 4e with a mech coat of paint, down to the apparent meat points.
I play Mechwarrior the RPG mind.

>>96083930 (OP)
I'm also new to /tg/. Usually just silently browsing and reading, looking for good ideas and inspiration for a video game I want to make.

I see GURPS not get shit on all that often, and from what I know its up front crunch probably gatekeeps a good majority of attention seekers out of its community. I also see Call of Cthulhu highly recommended often, with little backlash. Discussion on DnD always gets hectic, but it seems 5e is largely popular with rollplayers while older editions are more popular with roleplayers, 3e/3.5e/OSR in particular. Pathfinder tends to be divisive as well, though not nearly to the same extent. Starfinder barely gets mentioned, though I find the Shirren insect people pretty interesting.

The rest are other games that tend to be more holistic in their vision and intentions and probably are better games for it. The primary hook for my game is inspired by Iron Kingdoms, which I randomly came across on the miraheze /tg/ site.

>>96091313
Lancer people are even worse than that, the devs run their mouth on twitter and just make shit up about the game that isn't even true.

Op here.

Any editions of warhammer that have been viewed positivly?

>>96083930 (OP)
Basically
>leave this place, it's bad for your mental health, it's completely shat up like other boards are by /pol/cels who don't game, paint or even like the hobby who just ritualistically post the same gripes over and over again
>second, depends on what you're into. I would say don't get into anything that requires you to buy more than a couple of boxes of models per side to play a big game, and those manufacturers that are well priced like North Star, Wargames Atlantic, Gripping Beast, Mantic, Warlord and Victrix. About half of those make sci fi games and fantasy ones as well as historical stuff.
>I would also say don't snub your nose at a starter set and put it together, paint it and play out the scenarios. You might only do this once and move on to other things but now you've got a pool of finished models you can even improve later and build on
>when you just look at horus heresy or hail caesar or flames of war as a source of cheap miniatures and try a few other rule books like the song of blades and heroes books or the osprey blue books or fistful of lead or any number of the print on demand wargaming classics on Lulu or Amazon or Wargame Vault you realise you just need an entry point to get something done, meet some people and try something
>maybe find the popular game you can tolerate and try it, but have something ready that you're happy with to play your own pet project, or even play solo... there are so many good resources for this

Tabletop is great. It's best played with friends and family but failing that the most reasonable, sane, tidy person you can find who is into the same craziness as you and is cranking out units or dungeons or whatever

>>96084287
I hate GURPS. Like really don't fucking like it. It's retarded to me. Not trolling either

>>96084304
That's the basis of Root
It's good

>>96092583
Wh40k 2nd, rogue trader
Whfb 4th and 5th

Sorry but 3rd 40k and 6th fb were a revelation for many of you, for me it's when the rot set in

>>96092583
For Fantasy, 6th and sometimes 8th. For 40k, 2-5th and sometimes 8th.

>>96092659
Secondary

>>96083930 (OP)
Frostgrave 2nd edition is usually seen pretty well, although it's not a huge shakeup from 1st. The usual complaints I see is that it has less gang customization than Mordheim and some people don't like that it uses d20s instead of 3d6 or something.

>>96083930 (OP)
ACKS II is the only RPG I can think of that I would call good without qualification. GURPS is my actual favorite, but it's not a game out of the box, and it's not so beautifully unified.

>>96092699
It's swingy and that's part of the fun. Spazmos here will never pick a basing convention let alone games system.

Frostgrave and Stargrave are great jumping off points.

>>96092635
Any suggestions for good solo games?

>>96092718
ACKS I was fine. ACKS II is a level of granularity that makes it no longer a game lol. How do you roleplay anything that is just so fucking procedural

>>96092726
I don't see the conflict. Roleplaying is about making decisions. Having granular rules supports that by giving them weight and meaning.

>>96092724
Rangers of Shadowdeep if you're into miniatures. It plays almost a little like a tower defense game.

Four against darkness if you're a pen and paper guy.

>>96092735
Maybe I'm just butthurt that I was coming around to ACKS I and my group dropped all the work we were doing for something else, then sometjing else, then ACKs II, now it's some other fucking thing. I have a mortgage lol

>>96092742
Ok, yeah, I can see how that might sour someone on any system. I've had two different GMs who wanted to run a different WoD system every week. It did not endear me to the Storyteller system.

>>96092754
And it was like ok, I will buy myself the books and the GM the books because I'm nice like that, and after he chopped and changed a couple of times I' out lol. Bye guys, nice knowing ya. And as soon as v2 comes out and they are all excited for that and it's on kickstarter, nope.

Shame because I love BECMI and acks I was like BECMi perfected and AcKS II seemd to take that into AD and D overdrive, which was even more exciting in some respects but that's just the way it played out

>>96092681
Lots of people that are in the 40k hobby now enjoy 8th. I don't like it, I hate it. And just letting you know but you should kill yourself.

>>96092778
Why?

No.
>>96084048
And this is wrong. 5e is one of the more hated systems in /tg/ history. Deservedly so.

>>96092791
It's more playable than GURPS

>>96092791
Not as hated as 4e (probably). I was here when 4E dropped, but I'd checked out by the time 5e rolled around.

>>96086795
Yes. It’s what I said. A squirrel.

>>96091313
>image
explanation pls

>>96092742
I think you might be off a bit here, anon. The roleplaying happens between the mechanics. The mechanics are meticulous to help answer the "what happens with XYZ" (e.g. "So, what if I spend 80,000 gold on ivory at this giant market and try to sell it across the sea? What would that look like?"). It solves the problem of GM's having to often rule on the fly and most of those rulings being retarded.

>>96092833
Look up "Crimes Unspoken". You thought Nanking was bad?

>>96083930 (OP)
Honestly anon? They all suck. The only good wargaming system ever was made by Reisswitz and anything that's a direct derivative of it. I'd recommend looking into the IKS for ways to play that though.

>>96092833
The implication is that a large number of the postwar births were the result of occupying forces raping the local population, rather than, you know, young unattached women deprived of menfolk during the war fucking all the hot GIs they suddenly found themselves surrounded by. This happened in France when the krauts were occupying them too.

>>96083930 (OP)
I haven't seen anything but praise for Sakura Arms

>>96091993
>I see GURPS not get shit on all that often
gurps receives thoroughly neutral treatment on tg
each thread it gets one obligatory recommendation which is then promptly ignored by everyone

>>96083930 (OP)
Might I suggest Sword World?

Fan-translated, and damned good.

>>96092804
I was gonna mention 4e as well... ...but then again, it's all up to interpretation.

>>96094386
May one explain this game to me?

>>96083930 (OP)
>.is there any one edition of any game that tg can kind of agree on that was actually "good"?
no, but also /tg/ doesn't play games so I wouldn't take anything posted here seriously

>>96101911
>May one explain this game to me?
It's card based dueling fighting game, where you pick two characters and build a 7 card deck from their unique cardpools, hopefully to synergize with their abilities and preferred fighting ranges. Pretty good, simple to teach and a blast to play, but it had troubles in the west.
There's been two english editions of it printed, old one by AEG and a newer one by L99, incompatible with one another despite the L99 kickstarter page saying otherwise(because Brad is incompetent or stupid, take your pick). And now L99 dropped the game too, so the next print will be under Japanime Games and hopefully they'll get further and bring currently east-exclusive characters and alternative variants of old characters to the west, but so far i havent heard much from them. Still, last I looked the L99 boxes can still be found in stores and each is the complete game with 6 characters, more boxes means a wider roster but to just jam games with your bro you don't need em. And if you live in Japan and know japanese you can just get the original game in the newest edition with all the bells and whistles it has.

>>96092718
>>96092726
ACKS is complete garbage that only autistic accountants could enjoy. It strips the fun out of B/X and slaps on heaps of under-tested rules.

It's the closest thing to an objectively bad system, by being a direct downgrade of the game it tried to copy from but not only missed the point entirely, but actively worked againss its core principles. It's like if someone tried to copy a gun but decided to "improve" the design by having the barrel point in the reverse direction.

>>96092791
Entirely wrong. It's actually one of the most beloved. With ease you will find more 5e players here than all other RPGs. Combined.

>>96083930 (OP)
>but I am genuinely curious if there has ever been a rough consensus on a good edition/game system
4chan is a site filled with loli-consuming contrarians.
The only game I can think of that might come close to a consensus of that "it's alright" is MESBG, but I'm bound to get a response denying this.

>>96084386
>Anon has to admit some games are truly good and have objectively effective or elegant design.
You are so full of shit here, and the games you like paint you as an autistic retard. Some in your list are even the exact opposite of elegant design or examples of excellence, and make me wonder whether how you managed to sneak online without your handler stopping you from making your misleading shitposts.

>>96092791
The other anon said "large number of anons", not "majority".

>>96102034
Exactly my thoughts about it.
At least some parts of the pdf can be useful for reference when worldbuilding for other games, but at that point I'd rather just use other system agnostic books.

>>96102067
Low information posts like this belong on Reddit.

>>96084386
Nah, that's just you mistaking autism for "objectively effective or elegant design".
Plus seeing this >>96091313 it's obvious you're not only considering "effective" or "elegant" design, but also whether the game is """woke""".

>>96086213
I mean that just looks like a acknowledgement of country to me. Gotta do what you need to to avoid getting cancelled.

We acknowledge the original custodians of this land and pay respects to elders past and emerging

Show me the xitter xigger

>>96102174
It's far more honest and true than your misinformation. Your post doesn't belong anywhere.

>>96102034
What are the core principles of B/X that ACKS violates?

>>96083930 (OP)
>>96084287
trvthnvke
Basically everyone agrees that GURPS is the best RPG around. Everyone who disagrees is just joking around, and secretly wish they were playing GURPS.

>>96102034
It's a scam, not a game.
>chew up an old game, shit out some terrible "procedures" and charts that just slow everything down and add nothing but more ways to bore your players, and sell it to retards who think more pages=more value
Funniest thing is that it didn't even get 2000 backers on kickstarter. Despite clearing its lowballed goal (so they could claim they had a successful kickstarter), they didn't even manage to get enough money to cover the art budget, so they had to resort to using AI slop.

It gets shilled here because they can't shill on Reddit anymore because the game got banned because their discord was "brigading", ie. spamming it everywhere and dogpiling on anyone that criticized it. It sucks that we're stuck with these kind of shills, but it's funny because trying to get money out of 4chan users is like trying to get blood out of a stone.

>>96083930 (OP)
There are some very influential games that come to mind like Stargrunt II, Epic and BFG, Malifaux, DBA, 40k 3-5e, and MESBG.

>>96103386
Oh, you believe the Reddit brigading claim. Got it. You're a moron.

Idk about the ENTIRETY of /tg/, but the one ttrpg that was at least liked by literally everyone I've shown it to has been Call of Cthulhu.
Every other has had at least one person dislike it, but CoC was just liked by everyone.

>>96091351

I think Gaslands is probably one of the best answers. Ive not played it, but what conversations I have seen about it says it's a grand ol' time. Buy scale model cars, use hobby skills to modify them into max-max-mobiles, and a ruleset to have them go destruction derby on each other.

I think another one I haven't seen spoken of much recently is Brikwars. You have a big pile of Lego lying around? Brikwars gives you a fairly simple frameworkt to turn that pile of stuff into a somewhat coherent game. Is it more /toy/ than /tg/? Maybe. Do most nerds into tabletop stuff have Lego somewhere in the bottom of their closet? Definitely. And hey, you can make a wargame out of it.

>>96103450
Considering the incredibly low quality of the game? Not just believable, but almost a probabilistic certainty, especially because the counter-argument presented by the shills is that it was done solely because of political motivations, despite there being far more political games that remain unbanned (there's literally only one other RPG banned from discussion on reddit. It's not something they do often). Sure, politics may have played a part, but considering how hard you shills work even on this board it's kind of unsurprising you got banned from there.

Reddit is not even the first place you got your game banned from. You shills really make it easy for people to hate you, especially when anyone falls for your lies, looks into the game, and then discovers just how bad it is. We've even had plenty of individual shills banned repeatedly on this very board for their behavior, but they just ban evaded right back and even made posts telling the mods there's nothing they can do about them.

>>96083930 (OP)
GURPS

>>96083930 (OP)
In the RPG space, B/X D&D, Hackmaster (which influenced 3e considerably), Traveller (Mongoose, Battletech, and the Without Number games), and Runequest (grandaddy of many d% games) are systems I would consider particularly influential and liked.

>>96103553
>You're not allowed to defend a system you like!
All it takes is reading the thread announcing the ban of ACKS discussion on Reddit to see that it was politically motivated. I went and had a look, and the top comments are mainly complaints about his political views. The announcement provides no proof of the alleged brigading and otherwise only makes some vague statements about there being too many 'arguments'.

>>96103752
>The announcement provides no proof of the alleged brigading
Man, you shills really just don't get it, do you? That people do not have to extend to you the benefit of the doubt? What kind of proof did you want them to show, your secret Discord logs with attached birth certificates and driver's licenses?

If you act like retards and continuously get into arguments by being way too defensive about a game, even after being individually warned/banned, people will start to wonder what's wrong with you and what your actual motivations are, because "I like a game" doesn't push people towards brigading. Considering only two RPGs were ever banned, and neither were done lightly, it's incredibly stupid to assume that the shills didn't escalate the problem themselves.

I'm not even really sure how genuine you are about whether you actually think anyone is going to extend to you any sort of benefit of the doubt, because everything related to you and your game is shady and underhanded. I can't tell if you actually assume everyone is supposed to believe you on your word, or if that's just the only card left you have to play. It's not really much of a hand, since you're really just left saying "You should accept my interpretation of events!" without any reason to and every reason not to.

>>96086213
>the crimes of our evil empires in this game don't reflect our social and political views
Is kinda gay and pointless, but dozens of anons throwing a hissy fit over it is absurd, and you are all double gay.

>>96103533
>I think another one I haven't seen spoken of much recently is Brikwars. You have a big pile of Lego lying around? Brikwars gives you a fairly simple frameworkt to turn that pile of stuff into a somewhat coherent game. Is it more /toy/ than /tg/? Maybe. Do most nerds into tabletop stuff have Lego somewhere in the bottom of their closet? Definitely. And hey, you can make a wargame out of it.
DID SOMEBODY SAY BRIKWARS?!

Because yeah, as much as people hate the book keeping of Construction Points, 2010 is probably the best edition you can play.
Mike's fart huffing from then on just ruins things, and some anon made a great automated Stat Card Generator for 2010:
https://westnordost.de/statcard/

>>96103916
I think the weirdest thing about this whole argument is your gigantic textwalls without ever saying anything, beyond “reddit can do what they want lol” and repeating “you shills” to imply the other guy is operating under some sinister subversive agenda. I kept expecting some substantial criticism of the system to emerge but you basically just used as many words as possible to say that a Reddit ban is proof that the thing is bad and any support is necessarily astroturfed, which certainly bespeaks a remarkable level of faith in Reddit’s janny staff.

>>96083930 (OP)
don't listen to any of these salty fags, just come over to /SRPGG/, we actually like the games we play.

>>96104356
Whoo, nice try at a diversion here. And you want to pretend you're not shady and underhanded?

We're talking about one specific aspect of the game, its awful "community" that got itself banned from Reddit and RPG.net (because of your post >>96103450 here), and for some reason you now want to try and pivot to talk about its truly awful mechanics? Is that how you hope to tire people out from shitting on you?

Hey man, do us a favor. The claim is that the ACKS shills were so bad, reddit mods banned them for brigading. If you want to offer up some sort of counter-proof, by all means, ball's in your court. No, no more of your opinions, something that actually resembles proof. So far, all you've done is say "You need to trust me when I say that ACKS shills don't get obsessively defensive about their game or try to use underhanded tactics", all while you get obsessively defensive about your game and use underhanded tactics.

>>96104622
Burden of proof is on you, the one making the claim, Mr. Reddit Scholar. I’m an impartial observer who has never interacted with the system but noticed a bad ratio of hot air to content in your posts.

Your next move is to claim this is subversive underhanded samefagging, because Redditors can’t distinguish typing styles and can only identify posters by username.

I too appreciate marmot.

>>96105056
hey look me different guy trust me
i impartial too. no trick you. see? dif style.
proof is already given.
if you community so good, why keep you getting banned everywhere?
even myfarog, fatal, and racial holy war are free to talkb about on reddit, and acks is way less political
where your proof that acks didn't brigade? people in comments complaining about the brigaders. even mod said it happened, the community agreed with the ban
you got proof otherwise?
lol you impartial lol who supposed to believe you
santa clause make more sense than you butthurt ass saying you don't care you but you just type like you got rent payment riding on it

What the fuck is ACKS?
I'm not familiar with any system that came out after 2010 or so.

>>96083930 (OP)
Nechronica is good if it's what you're into. MAID as well.

I LIKE Mage: The Acension but it's a bit free-form so it could just be that I have a cool group.

>>96083930 (OP)
Just pick whatever your friends are playing and i they aren't playing anything just pick whatever you think has the coolest looking models

>>96096541
You understand that this is proof to his claim, right?

>>96103238
You can leave, now.

>>96103287
Rulings over Rules. ACKS prefers the latter.
I'm an ACKS fan though. I think rules aren't a bad thing.

>>96103553
>Low quality

I don't care about acks (all D&D bad, and acks is just D&D again) but being banned from reddit seems is such a weird thing to bring up as a "criticism" when you're posting on 4chan. Like... Why do you think anyone would care about that unless they're from reddit themselves (and thus should just go the fuck back)

>>96103386
>but it's funny because trying to get money out of 4chan users is like trying to get blood out of a stone.
If they were here 10 years ago it might have been different. /tg/ has funded a few successful kickstarters in its time.
These days it's filled with third worlders and retards on disability.

>>96109608
Why use AI art if it's high quality?

>>96109679
The chapter on Mercantile ventures is better than any PbtA storyfaggotry or "one page rules" or any other "comfy inn simulator" slop that your random ichio or "humble bundle to support Palestine" is offering.

ACKS, whether you like the crunch or not, is a work of fucking absolute autistically fueled passion which absolutey sets out to achieve comprehensive and high-level domain play as an "end game" to adventuring and gold collecting. It makes nearly everything major publishers are putting out look like cow shit.

And, honestly? Not respecting ACKS for what it does is a solid IQ filter. I appreciate the game, if only for that.

>>96109589
Oh. Well, that's a silly 'core principle' if they really believe it. Rulings *are* rules.

>>96103752
>All it takes is reading the thread announcing the ban of ACKS discussion on Reddit to see that it was politically motivated.
Well, it is reddit, no doubt a number of people don't like seeing someone right wing shill their shitty product on their board. But let's see what some of the comments say about brigading.

>To add to it, he/his company has a very active Discord which they wield like a weapon. Whenever the topic of his games (which are rightly controversial, if as I understand rather generic) comes up organically, the Discord spins up a brigade machine that often wrecks any normal conversation. Pro-Macris comments flood the threads, anything remotely critical gets downvoted to hell. Happens every time.
>So not just that theyre a bad actor, but then they also try and astroturf and synthetically drive opinions in a pro-ACKS manner as well.
Seems to be about brigading.

>Recent posts on r/OSR promoting his Kickstarter are from accounts that have blocked users previously critical of him, combined with brigade upvoting from his discord made for an echo chamber.
This had an ACKS brigadier replying to it with justifications for said blocking.

> Someone posted a thread about ACKS 2e. That's fine, but it got critical posts about the author. That's also fair, but it was not exactly a cool discussion. The thread was eventually locked, I think.
>So what someone did was block everyone in the first thread they disagreed with, and then post an "impartial" positive review thread. Nobody who was blocked could see or participate in that thread because the OP had blocked them. That's just how Reddit works for that, but you're not supposed to abuse it. Then the thread was brigaded by members of the ACKS Discord with positive comments and votes to drown out criticism.
This post outlines an incident of brigading.

Interestingly, you can find many instances of brigading in the thread itself.

>>96109739
So, basically, if something gets a lot of positive comments and the author happens to be a right wing political figure, it's brigading and an echo chamber and bad.

>>96109762
I see what >>96103916 meant when he said everything is shady and underhanded.
My post pretty clearly outlines that the main cause for brigading was a flood of new accounts posting exclusively about ACKS and getting upvoted in an unusually short period, and mass blocking anyone who offered dissenting opinions so they wouldn't see future advertisement threads.
And honestly yeah, it's pretty bad if your game is so bad you have to resort to these tactics to shill it.

>>96109709
>Non-sequitur without an actual answer
ACKS really is only for the mentally retarded

>>96103386
Holy fuck youre in every thread making these false crybaby posts, huh, fishfag?

>>96109773
You're not fooling me, samefag. Sounds like Reddit's absolutely fair and impartial moderation is more your speed. I suggest you return.

>>96109739
The reeeing about politics being the reason ACKS gets banned everywhere is hilarious because there are several examples of games that are further to the right than Macuck ever could be, and none of them are banned. You can go talk about Myfarog on r/osr if you want to, and nobody bats an eye.
But trust the ACKStard when he tells you it was totes politics that made everyone sick of his shitty game.

>>96109794
>Samefag
Swing and a miss.
>Sounds like Reddit's absolutely fair and impartial moderation is more your speed
It probably would help if we had a new Nazi Mod here, honestly. Someone who would ban puckee/2hu on the spot and clamp down on shilling like we had with the god awful shitshow that was Blood Junkies or ACKS.
But such a discussion doesn't belong here, so you can quit deflecting.

>>96109709
>is a work of fucking absolute autistically fueled passion
So is everything retards do.
You know what he should have done? Refined the rules, instead of just adding more and more shit that's completely fucking retarded.

His mass combat rules are some of the worst mass combat rules ever put to paper. Fuck, he managed to fuck up the basic combat rules. What kind of fucking moron do you need to be to think everyone rolling initiative individually every round could possibly be a good idea. That's not even the worst part of the combat, but it's one of those things that even just by the second turn someone should have chimed in with "Yo, please don't tell me we're going to have to do this every fucking round. I know you don't respect me, but respect my fucking time."

It's a game for easily impressed idiots who think lots of pages of charts makes a good game. I don't think anyone with half a brain who's seen how any other system does literally anything can look at ACKS and not think it's just rules written like he gets paid not just by the word but how many pointless rolls he can force people to do.

ACKS is rules written for people who subconsciously hate their players and themselves, and the only good news is maybe that means some suicides in that community.

>>96103916
>"I like a game" doesn't push people towards brigading
I don't think you understand. ACKS isn't something you like. It's love. It's a way of life. It's mind altering. It's a substance. It's more than a product, it's like being able to smell with your eyes and hear with your tongue. You might say it's just a worse copy of the B/X Companion. But I'll not hear of such claims no matter how true they are. ACKS is love, ACKS is life, and I'll brigade a thousand threads before I let the good word of our lord and savior go unheard, AMEN!

>>96109739
This post is violent.

>>96104622
To be fair, who hasn't been banned from Big Purple.

>>96109075
Adventurer Conqueror King System. Basically trying to make the promise of Domain Play in BECMI actually work.

ACKS1 seems to have done this. ACKS2 seems like a mess of unnecessary shit, but that's subjective.

>>96084386
Lancer is widely considered mechanically dysfunctional here, so no, I don't think it belongs on your list.

>>96083930 (OP)
>So I'm new to wargaming and ttrpgs. And surfing this board I just have one question....is there any one edition of any game that tg can kind of agree on that was actually "good"?
Engine Heart.

>>96113128
Honestly I don't play ACKS or have any interest in it, but the more the redditor argues it was banned on nonpolitical grounds the more convinced I am that it was banned for leftoid political purity reasons.

>>96113128
>the promise of Domain Play in BECMI actually work.
BECMI's domain rules do work and work well. They're fairly basic, but that comes with the understanding that they provide the required skeleton for a DM to then fill in the blanks with information relevant to what kind of setting they're trying to build. The domain rules in the Players Companion Books are only like 12 pages, but they hit the heart of what you need.
ACKS's domain rules are terrible, which is ironic considering how hard people try to push them as the game's selling point. They're extremely and unnecessarily complicated, and they will just produce vague, generic and uninspired results. They are very much just rules for the sake of having rules, which may be the worst kind of rules. Any time where one roll would suffice, it asks for three or more, and the rules are interconnected in the worst ways, where in order to even use certain charts you first have to generate a spreadsheet using a different chart, so even if you just wanted to use a particular rule there's a good chance it's going to be useless by itself.
What it ends up being is a mess of a system that is ambitious but can't actually produce anything of quality. You can waste hours with the charts, all just to produce a fairly stupid world built with incredibly stupid systems. It's economic systems do not understand how market forces work or how quickly they can react, which leads to it working like an abstract board game system where the only interesting part is how easy it is to break and exploit.
I can understand why it doesn't have a problem using A.I art, because even its core rules are all about just randomly generating soulless garbage with no real intelligence behind it.

>>96113180
>honestly
Weird way to start out a lie.

Also, it got banned because the ACKS discord was brigading. If it was purely on political grounds, other far more political games would have been banned long before it was.

>>96109739 Gives some good examples of how they were brigading.

>>96113406
That's secondhand, so I'll take your word for it that ACKS1 breaks as easily as Birthright (lol). I skimmed the of ACKS and WWN, and I preferred Crawford's approach to sandbox campaigns and didn't look at ACKS beyond deciding it wasn't for me.

ACKS2 seems to have doubled down on the things that were annoying about ACKS1, so I wasn't at all interested.

>>96113430
I don't believe you, and the harder you try the more obvious it becomes you're a liar. Since you clearly prefer reddit's more, ah, 'curated' environment, why not return there?

>>96092795
No. It is easier to make a character for, however.

>>96113521
Birthright's economy breaks easily, but that's because it's intended to. Players get big powers and can make big changes, and there's no illusions about it trying to be some kind of accurate economic simulator. It's a game about people with the divine right to rule, and it makes the game exciting and interesting and keeps the players focused on running a kingdom instead of running some sort of abstract bodega.
ACKS just sort of sucks and breaks not deliberately, but because it's just badly designed.

>>96113539
>I don't believe you,
Don't believe who?
More importantly, no one believes you.

>>96113644
I'm not the one hysterical with rage trying to convince 4chan of all places that a niche community for a nothingburger system is out to get them.

>>96113671
Just because it's niche doesn't mean it can't have obnoxious shills

>>96113671
Nor is anyone here.
Geez, you really have a weird way of getting obsessively defensive about your game and trying to use underhanded tactics.

>>96109570
you understand that I was expanding on his claim, not refuting it, yes?

>>96083930 (OP)
>is there any one edition of any game that tg can kind of agree on that was actually "good"?
No, because /tg/ sadly is full of inveterate contrarians.

>>96083930 (OP)
Other than the absolutely insane and brown Fishfag, ACKS is considered to be good by most people.

>>96115605
>everyone that dislikes what I like is a contrarian
literal autism

>>96086445
Therefore, I won't play it.

>>96102034

It's like asking if there's a music genre that everyon in /mu/ agrees on. That's not how hobbies work. Some people get butt blasted about others liking different things, and that's also a universal issue.

>>96115621
you're making up an argument to get mad at someone you don't know, you're proving his point,

>>96115617
If that was true, you wouldn't have needed to brigade on Reddit.

>>96102034
>>96103553
>>96103916
>>96104622
>>96109780
The Venn diagram of "people who don't like ACKS" and "faggots, trannies, or Redditors" is a circle.

The only reason people don't like the system (and praise similar systems) is because Macris joined Milo's organization. In spite of disavowing the event, he committed a great groupthink sin and we must forever boycott his work as a creator. Take this political shit to your echochamber hugboxes. This is /tg/. Fuck off.

Thankfully, for we mentally stable people, we can at least use distaste for ACKS as a litmus to immediately flag people. Those who vehemently hate it should be avoided at your table and FLGS.

>>96117291
Nah, ACKS is just worse B/X that keeps getting worse. ACKS2 somehow managing to be even worse than ACKS1 takes a special kind of retardation.

>>96117272
>>96113634
>>96113521
>>96113430
Making up delusional bullshit that never happened is not a substitute for reality

>>96083930 (OP)
Thinking about this, you need three things. A lot of people playing it. People liking it, and a relative lack of people hating it.

Hell, I think it would almost be easier to identify the infamously bad or hated games and just see what's left that's played a lot. It's probably a short list.
>>96084740
/n/ does. The f40ph.
Even /v/ has solid lists of recommendations.

>>96086445
>Even dnd has a California disclaimer now, they're pretty normal.
And how much is DnD since that started hated for it?

>>96092583
I'm a gigantic grump, but the ONLY warhammer I've ever enjoyed were Space Hulk and Blood Bowl.

>>96096541
Which is appropriate for the correct gurps philosophy, of ONLY using the parts you actually want, which is none of it, particularly when anyone wants a recomendation, otherwise they'd already be using it..

Simpler question: Of the D+D versions, what ones are most loved by tg?

>>96118278
5e is the most played by far. More than all the other editions combined. More than all other RPGs combined.
4e isn't really played by anyone, but it at least gets more respect now then when the edition war trolls were focused on it.
3e is the first really "modern" D&D, with its core system actually being a core system and not just a bunch of different subsystems competing against each other.
The earlier editions of D&D get respect for being what they were at the time, but you really need to be a grognard to actually play them. You're really only going to find people who enjoy 2e and earlier in the /osrg/.

>>96118278
B/X for procedural dungeon crawling, 3.5 for simulationist crunch and crazy builds, 4e for the grid tactics combat game.

>>96115661
>you're making up an argument to get mad at someone you don't know,
ironic, that's what you're doing with me when I was doing nothing of the sort
chalking sincere differences in opinion up to some negative like "contrarianism" is as autistic as the fragrance of musty clothes and stale piss

>>96084386
>For tactical TTRPGs I think Lancer does a great job for what it tries to accomplish
It's a superhero game in a tin suit that, once upon a time, tried to simulate the game play of Armored Core in a system that would not require a hex map.

Not saying that it isn't the best superhero skirmish game around, but it's pretty far from where it started from.

>>96118278
3.5 easily.