Do you think GW will ever take a leaf out of WotC's book and decide that Orks need humanising as them being an entirely savage race is now wrongthink?

>>96088238
So I guess you could say they cooked

>>96088220 (OP)
Orks are literally a fungus that can think.

Do you think OP will ever take his fucking meds and stop being angry about things that haven't even happened?

>>96088220 (OP)
Nah, GW has made it clear that the Orks are lower class whites, so blacks and liberals and such won't get upset.

>>96088220 (OP)
Orks were more human in early editions than they are now. They literally hired human and other xenos as mercs and would spare planets in return for tithes in the form of armaments. Heck their shanty towns were more like arabian villages rather than the sterotypical scrapheaps you see with more modern art

>>96088220 (OP)
I think it's coming. Same with female marines. The HH books introduced yass queens, we've had femstodes, and they'll soon be humanizing orks and have femstartes.

>>96088220 (OP)
Your other thread was shit and so is this one. Fuck you

The orks are a riff on a white culture and can't really be used for muh poor niggerinos outrage.

>>96089384
Nah, we've passed peak woke, damage was done but we'll heal.

>>96089999
Maybe, but James will always find a way to fuck up.

>>96088220 (OP)
>Orks need humanising as them being an entirely savage race is now wrongthink?
soooo... war of the beast?

>>96088220 (OP)
Only if a prominent political figure compares them to minorities

>>96090801
Are white chavs finally a minority?

>>96088220 (OP)
They kinda did already with the whole "we fuckin love Yarrick" thing.

>>96088220 (OP)
No

GW orcs are biological anomalies that exist fully out of a need for selling toys that kill each other, D&D orcs are actually playable so saying they're brainless becomes much too limiting to players. Orc is basically a generic word that means "monstrous creature" different settings have different definitions of what an orc is supposed to be. Hell, even the guy who created the modern orcs explicitly had scenes that showed them as having thoughts and emotions.

>>96091706
D&D orcs used to exist so player characters had something to kill and loot without feeling remorse. They were only gradually humanised and I think 3.0s half-orcs existing as a player option in an era when a character being a product of rape became increasingly unacceptable led into their gradual "just another type of people" status, just to allow players to not have to tackle concept of rape. It also doesn't help that real world racists saw parallels between d&d orcs and black people.
40k orks are, I hope, safe for two reasons. Half orks are categorically impossible in the settings fictional biology, so the setting will not have to shoe-horn in alternative explanations to rape, like d&d had to. Orks in Warhammer also have very little overlap with real world racist stereotypes, since they are primarily built on classist stereotypes.

>>96088220 (OP)
Orks are pretty humanized despite lore wise literally being a ancient super weapon (At least in 40K) that exist only to fight.

In fantasy I doubt much will change, but AoS does seem to be making Orks generally more chaotic neutral than evil. Still violent brutes with a love for pillaging and fighting, but generally more interested in fighting. Granted, they also have the Kruelboyz who are nasty even by Ork standards.

>>96089095
They also made clear Nids are just man-eating space bugs and yet these groups still love to pretend they're an allegory for jews.

>>96088220 (OP)
Orks were always the good guys

>>96095567
That's because Jews love to self-report
It's only gotten worse lately

>>96088220 (OP)
But 40k Orks are football hooligans, who are themselves an entirely savage race.

>>96093892
>It also doesn't help that real world racists saw parallels between d&d orcs and black people.
But that's what those kind of racists do, compare normal people to monsters just to be dicks. And changing up the monster to be more bland and less "evil" isn't going to stop them, it'll just make them change up their choice of insult. I wouldn't be surprised if they're already prepping to start calling black people "gnolls" because they're soulless demons based on an african animal.

Admittedly, I could never see where people thought of orcs as black people outside of the very narrow set of "unga bunga" neanderthal parallels. Like, I could understand where some racists might make those parallels, but it was never where my first thoughts on what an orc should be like. Too much children's media where orcs were basically bumbling assholish put-upon grunts forced to deal with bitchy demanding villains always screaming at them to get the heroes convinced me they're basically working class stand-ins, which basically means that on some level they're everyone, you know?

>>96088220 (OP)
Nah, the current meme is them being chaotic evil/neutral bongs who have horrific slapstick adventures. As of now they cant be criticized, the savage ones i think were in Fantasy but whatevs

Downstream post

>>96088220 (OP)
GW Orcs have always been white.

>>96094397
I'd argue Ironjawz are Chaotic Good and Kruleboyz Chaotic Evil.

>>96095689
I think "Orcs are Black" is mostly the result of World of Warcraft. Granted, Orks in Warcraft have a lot more in common with both Jews and Vikings culturally and historically. But at least in Wow, the one game people care about, they generally live in Not Africa.

>>96096414
Not sure if I would go so far as chaotic good, but they do lean much more towards the boisterous bruiser side of things while Kruelboys are, well, very cruel.

>>96096700
>But at least in Wow, the one game people care about, they generally live in Not Africa.
They are also unironical settler colonialists who genocided a significant amount of the native sapient population in order to build their new city in the TFT's Orc mini-campaign.

>>96090826
Depends on the city.

>>96096904
I'm aware. It's mostly justified due to their alliance with the Taurens, at least it's supposed to be.

I doubt most people actually read the quest text, let alone play the Warcraft 3 campaign.

>>96088220 (OP)
You people are so fucking tiresome with your virtue signaling and invented persecutions.

>>96096700
>I think "Orcs are Black" is mostly the result of World of Warcraf
I heard this in my flgs back in the late 90s, mostly from the 40k crowd.

>>96096700
>they generally live in Not Africa.
Kalimdor is as much based off of America as Africa. You have the Taurens as plains natives stand-ins and Night Elves as south american jungle dwelling natives in their secret grand empires.

>>96088220 (OP)
I haven't paid much attention, but the obvious thing they'll go with is female orks.

>>96097144
I'm aware, but if you actually look at the Barrens and Durotar it mostly feels like Africa.

>>96097126
Weird considering 40K orks are 100% English football hooligans.

>>96097166
>the Barrens and Durotar
That's just central america, bro. It's literally the New World to the west of not!Europe and colonized by a persecuted underclass. It's as American as you can get.

>>96097144
and the orc part of it is desert. Meaning the analogue to africans are orcs, especially the "true" non-demon tainted ones.

>>96097392
>there are no deserts in america
And yurops say americans have a terrible grasp of geography

>>96088220 (OP)
So, you didn't read that book I am guessing, because unirionically, that's the book that has most humanized orks, they have fodness for other species and even adopt some of them.
Mind you orks are quite humanized already, and aren't really the savage race basically every story shows that whoever treats them as savage gets provne wrong.

>>96088220 (OP)
>as them being an entirely savage race is now wrongthink
I don't think anyone is gonna be be offended by Yorkshire residents being depicted as such.

>>96089999
Society may have passed it, that doesn't mean the festering subnormals who wormed their way into established companies and IPs have just magically gone away. GW are at such a peak right now - they're in the FTSE100 ffs - that they have at least a decade of abysmal failures in them before the shareholders would even start to notice. The Woke is inside the house, anon. We're going to keep seeing bow-wielding magical girl pegasus riding Bretonnian ladyknights, femstodes, femstartes, 1/3 of every set of promo minis painted with black skin despite them being what like 3% of Brits, half the nobility of the Empire is still going to be immigrant families that have somehow both always been there but are still black as coal without any inbreeding, it's not going to stop because it's everywhere - the WarCom staff are dangerhairs, the modern designers are nonbinaries, the studio heads are all old-lefties who're too cucked to stand on principle so just bow to Woke demands so they won't be cast out into the wilderness, Warhammer is Wokehammer by design and it has enough inertia to keep going until it kills the company or we're all too old to care anymore.

They already won their war. All that remains is for players to grasp that it doesn't matter because they were always fighting the wrong one: *we* control who games with us, *we* control what rules we use, *we* control what is and isn't canon. They can control every corporate wargame producer that exists and we still have the power to laugh in their faggot faces and ban their female marines from our groups, if we have the will.

>>96093892
>It also doesn't help that real world racists saw parallels between d&d orcs and black people.
I have literally never, not once, not in thirty years of gaming, seen anyone except the faggiest kind of student politics-tier wokeoid ever equate orcs and blacks. They created the problem and then insisted it had to be solved.

>>96104110
Northerners are Dwarfs in Warhammer anon(fat, beardy, miners, drunkards, hate outsiders, Yawk-sheer ack-cents). Orks are SOUF FC Chav footy hooligans roaring about in their body kitted space-Vauxhall Corsa screaming OI OI CHOP SAHM FAHKIN 'EADS LADS.

>>96104556
Oh no, it was started by racists mostly, I know in early DnD some adventures had orcs as black people, in particular african colonial stuff mostly.
But also modern day shit was started by some rejects from twitter

>>96088220 (OP)
That would kill their brand. Though I think they are dumb enough to try that shit. I mean they did try to gaslight that the Adeptus Custodes who were known as the Sons of Terra had females in their ranks.

>>96095567
I've never seen anyone compare nids to jews

>>96088220 (OP)
The joke is that Orks are English football hooligans. That’s it, stop overanalysing it into being something it’s not. They’re football hooligans. That’s why they speak cockney.

>>96088220 (OP)
What?
Orcs in DnD were without personality. Spare me whatever specific super distinct traits greyhawk orcs had, they are just savages in larger pop culture, and you couldn't even play as one baseline. When it came time to find political problems in dnd, it was the lowest hanging fruit.

Orks in 40k (and their greenskin cousins in fantasy) by comparison have very charming ruffian personalities. Sure, when you actually look at the text they're horrifically cruel and evil brutes, but in popular perception they're green chungus red fast boys havinf fun. There's absolutely no reason to change them.

>>96110775
that would be the adl and jews. decclaring nids are anti semitism. because of genestealer cults...
make of that confession via projection what you will.

>>96110775
At least one jewish individual felt called out by nids.

>>96111471
This thread is not for listening, but I would add to your statements that early 40k Orks also had a smattering of German aesthetics as a secondary tongue-in-cheek jibe, which is why there is a preponderance of Pickelhaubes and Stahlhelms

>>96121765
take one fucking look at this accounts replies and tell me it isnt ragebait

>>96121878
>the jew MUST be lying for personal profit!
Woah buddy, cool it with that antisemitism.

>>96121887
no moron, you just keep falling for obvious ragebait

>>96121902
Yeah yeah, it's all just a big jewish conspiracy. Whatever you say, /pol/

>>96110775
I've seen people compare Genestealers to jews. But then, I've seen people compare Genestealer to any group that is subversive.

>>96121875
Yeah, old Stormboyz really went with that aesthetic.

Only real remnant nowadays are a few names like Gunwagon. Though new Boyz kits actually ahs some stahlhelms.

>>96088220 (OP)
GW actually kind of did with the War of the Beast: before Orks were instinctively a bunch of raiding dickbags, they were consciously a bunch of raiding dickbags that got kicked in the face by the Emprah so hard it destroyed most of their higher-reasoning skills as a collective race, ironically giving them what they wanted as they no longer had to bother with un-Orky things like diplomacy.

>>96096700
Warcraft Orcs seem to be more like a blend of East Asian and Western European warrior cultures: you can see Mongols, Samurai, Vikings, and Germanic analogues in their individual tribes, and the fact they were enslaved by not!Rome does give them the Jewish parallel (which becomes even stronger in later WoW when they basically invent capitalism with the Goblins.)

Probably not, although both Age of Sigmar and Warhammer Fantasy to a much less extent have delved more into orcs as not a completely malicious force but one that posses an inhuman psychology that prioritises cycles of development and deconstruction. They find joy and mean in that and while that means that as a whole they aren't really something that could say live in a city for a generations, they are useful in their own way as warriors and guardians in some ways, just so long as they don't run out of things to fight and turn their attention back on you. The Fury of Gork novels explores this a lot woth Gordrakk, but annoyingly a lot of his recent characterization threw thay out the window in favor of 'haha funny orc is dumb and solves problems in brutal ways' as opposed to the previous depiction where he was not great at speaking and wasn't particularly smart outside of fighting, but he was acutely aware of what he and orcs are.

>>96094397
Thus proves that Gork was always the correct choice and Mork is for conniving shits.

>>96095567
Literally no one has ever made that comparison.

>>96088220 (OP)
Woke is on the decline finally. The more time that passes the less and less you're going to see that kind of stupid shit happening anymore, current stuff getting pushed out is just the emptying of the sludge still backed up in the pipeline that started years ago. Anything being developed starting now that we'll see in 3-4 years is going the complete opposite direction. Young people don't buy woke shit anymore.

>>96095962
So then why were they the Zulus in 40k's version of Rorke's Drift?

>>96127728
Until the pendulum swings the other way again (which it always does). And the pendulum always swings harder than it did in the previous cycle, so when woke is fashionable again, it's going to be even more extreme than this last time.

>>96127779
>Until the pendulum swings the other way again (which it always does).
We'll all be dead before that happens. The current leftoid cope is that the pendulum swings every 4-8 years during elections or something, because leftoids are retards who don't know anything about how the world works. Politics is downstream of culture, and the cultural pendulum had been swinging left for the last 80 years since WW2 ended. It has only JUST begun swinging right again. Things are going to get more right-wing every generation for the rest of your natural life.

>>96127852
That likely would’ve been the case if the right didn’t shit the bed so spectacularly the moment they got full control of the steering wheel. Within the span of a few months the Cheeto dust encrusted pedophile has both irreparably shattered the US’s global hegemony and is ushering in a new economic recession with his pants-on-head retarded policies. Even his most loyal cultists are starting to wise up to the fact that their emperor’s got no clothes on and they’ve been played for idiots.

>>96128002
You're misunderstanding one critical thing. Not a single one of the people turning on Trump is going back to the Left because of this. It's just galvanizing people way further Right.

>>96088220 (OP)
It's okay in GW's case because they're explicitly a mockery of white (well, Bri'ish) people. D&D orcs are generic savages and therefore leftist Media Literacy Experts see them as a caricature of Africans.

>>96128033
>>96128002
Yeah, that just means the labor unions that jumped from one party to the other are going to look more palatable.

>>96127754
Someone saw the (r)ORK(es) drift pun and went with it.

>>96115846
>Sure, when you actually look at the text they're horrifically cruel and evil brutes, but in popular perception they're green chungus red fast boys havinf fun.
It is what makes them extra fun in my opinion, from the outside they are a bunch of silly guys, in universe they are a horrific foe to face. Like the shokk attack gun as a concept is very funny concept of using an actual teleporter gun to teleport a goblin inside of someone, but that's actually horrifying from every perspective especially since it uses the warp.

>>96127606
Arguable haven't looked that much into it, but Gordrakk doesn't seam much dumber in new material. Only moment i recall that sounds like funny orc violence was that "some gitz you have to kill twice" bit when a shaman possesses a guy to talk to him and he kills the possessed to shut the shaman up

>>96121875
>>96127326
>40k Orks also had a smattering of German aesthetics as a secondary tongue-in-cheek jibe,
Correction: NEO-nazi aesthetics. Orks are basically punk rock hooligans + footie hooligans, and punk rock has always had a strong undercurrent of neonazism, especially in the 80s
>which is why there is a preponderance of Pickelhaubes and Stahlhelms
This is specifically because orks are crudely LARPing as imperials, just like english whiteboy crudely LARPing as nazi at their punk shows.

How have you guys never got this because you're too busy pearl-clutching over Funny Mustache Man I'll never understand.

>>96127364
HH is such transcoded slop, I swear.

>>96127779
>>96127728
>so when woke is fashionable again
Woke&SJW were memes the right adopted and utterly emptied of all meaning for the purpose of their campaign.
There is no pendulum, btw. Politics are constant, the only thing that changes is whom the media's paying attention to.

>>96128002
This is desperate cope, because none of it actually happened. They're also just openly deporting the backbone of the Left (migrants) now. The fake shit like trannies and anti-whiteness are never going to gain in popularity without the ability to import more resentful browns.

The other guy is right. You will die of age before you see any leftward motion again.

>>96128002
Obsessed and also completely wrong. Trump was seen as the last peaceful option to change things, if he fails to follow through you better believe we're going to see all that right-wing violence you cuckolds have been clamoring for over the last 10 years.

>>96131749
Not really. The kind of communes that made the KKK and people spontaneously fire-bombing homes in order to maintain real estate appreciation possible have been atomized by the corporate media blitz.

>>96088220 (OP)
It's an insult to orcs to be associated with Mexicans.

>>96131795
>he doesn't know
Perhaps it's better that you don't

>>96131224
You people are gleefully carving off your own noses to spite your own face. He’s gutting absolutely everything from the lower and working class of all Americans in order to give tax cuts to the tumourous billionaires pedocons who bankrolled his campaign and you people are still begging to be hit harder and harder like the little cucks you are.

>>96131927
I recall an old Portlandian joking about how it was the Hammerskins that gentrified the city, if that's what you're implying.

>>96131927
I actually hope you right wingers do try to get violent. The right has a terrible track record in warfare. In fact, the only war in modern history I can think of where right wingers actually won was the Spanish Civil War.

>>96129748
I did consider the neos/hooligans angle, but I think it's column A/column B in the end. Remember that RT Orks would go on about how the superiority of their "Kultur". That is 150% a Jerry reference.

>>96132106
>Remember that RT Orks would go on about how the superiority of their "Kultur".
Just like neonazis
>That is 150% a Jerry reference.
Again, you need to look at the whole of how the "germanic undertones are applied to orks"
>they're mainly adopted by either stormboys - rebellious yoofs seeking to defy orkish society - or blood axes - Imperium LARPers who pick and choose which aspects of the Imperium to adopt based on personal tastes or how it suits their current mood
>they're never in proper uniform, it's just a hodgepodge of vaguely nazi aesthetics thrown haphazardly on top of mad max/punk apparel
>those most likely to adopt neonazi flair are also the ones most likely to integrate with other species, it's the Goffs who are the racial purists
Like I said, it's punk rock hooligans and defiant youths adopting a subversive aesthetic, not a commentary on the german army.

>>96132136
And I heard you loud and clear, but you've ceded not even the possibility that a culture making jokes about Germans "reapplying to the human race" on Yes, Prime Minister in the 80s would have jeery references to a warlike culture when the whole thread thread thus far is stacked with people who can't help themselves from going that route.
Ultimately only GW knows.

>>96132159
I just think it'd be a very weak dig on germans, especially when the Imperium already exists as a big ol' ball of "everything we dislike about our parents/the previous generation" and it fits much more with the character of orks and what they're already confirmed to poke fun at if you look at them from the neonazi angle.

Hell, the fact that people get so caught up on the pickelhaubes and swastika glyph shows exactly why punks used that stuff IRL.

>>96132136
As has repeatedly been stated - GW Orks are white.

>>96132190
No they aren't. They're green.

>>96093892
>D&D orcs used to exist so player characters had something to kill and loot without feeling remorse
That's because D&D in general transitioned from a game about killing monsters and losing dungeons to a game about fantasy adventures. Making interesting orcs requires more depth at that point because you want narrative complexity.
>It also doesn't help that real world racists saw parallels between d&d orcs and black people.
Ironically, the black people I know all like orcs and thought they were cool. It's more of a white liberal thing.

>>96132185
Well it's not just the previous generation - one of the common Ork hats that is not biker gear is this fur one - specifically the type that was worn by Attila the *HUN*.
This is Rogue Trader, it's not so much a dig or sneer as it is banter, but I truly believe in my heart that there are German themes in Orkdom WHILE AGREEING another side of it is the edgy punk aspect, most notably in the Stormboy blurb about how the other Orks say "it's just a phase" and "they'll grow out of it". But those other Orks are still wearing Stahlhelms.

>>96132477
whoops forgot my hat