It just seems like they never had their heyday in the limelight and just kept coasting by under everyone's noses.
Even as aesthetics they get heavily modified and not really explicitly said to be steampunk even if inspired by it.

>>96122048 (OP)
The genre originated as "what if cyberpunk in the 1860s" but quickly morphed into "what if top hats and corsets"

Gears are appropriate to introduce, if they look like they have a legitimate use.

>>96122048 (OP)
It is and always was just goth for fat people. And fat people are icky.

>>96122301
>goth for fat people
so goth

>>96123281
You're not wrong, but also it's much, much worse in Steampunk.

>>96122158
>fpbp

>>96122048 (OP)
>everything has cogs even clothes
>no slavery
>no ottomans fucking the west
>no exploration or colonization of indigenous people
>no fight between commoners, burghers and nobles
>no napoleonic war
Its like they took one thing from the era and cutoff all the cool parts.

It's not really a genre. Genres happen when someone makes a piece of fiction notable and distinct enough that people copy it, and are easily recognised doing so. There are a handful of things that could be plausibly called "steampunk", but none of them are like that. It's a wannabe genre, and therefore not much of anything.

>>96124452
>no slavery
wage slavery

>>96122048 (OP)
It's a shallow cargo cult of 19th century aesthetics, written with an equally superficial understanding of what the period was actually like.

>>96122048 (OP)
I think the main downside to Steampunk is that it gets old incredibly fast. An airship? Cool. Three sessions later the "New" wears off and you're left with bland skins making your game far too complicated.

>>96124452
>they took one thing from the era
what era? the entire modern era? what a strange list

>>96124452
>no ottomans fucking the west
>Sick man of Europe
>Fucking anyone

Hello, Reddit

>>96122274
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFCuE5rHbPA

>>96124570
I'd say its a simulacrum genre, in the Jean Baudrillard sense. That is, "steampunk" works are overwhelmingly imitations of something that doesn't exist, drawing on discussion of "steampunk" themes based in >>96124766 rather than any "real" source material.

>>96125009
That's why you go hog-wild on barely-plausible steam-based technology like ultra-miniaturized locomotives replacing cars or even motorcycles, as well as tasteful anachronisms like nixie tubes for primitive elecromechanics.

>>96126415
>Alternate universe where the Ottomans are still relevant

Boom. Fixed.

>>96122158
Cyberpunk in the 1860's is such an interesting concept too. What sorts of things would you expect to see in such a setting? The only thing I think I've seen that goes somewhere in that direction is pic rel and to my dismay I've learned it hasn't been a hit with most other people

>>96122158
Cyberpunk is basically Latin American social dysfunction meeting rising Asian megacity.

If you want 1860s cyberpunk, you're just writing historical thrillers.

It's a fashion aesthetic that has somehow tried to become a setting but ignores the societal and moral quandaries of the given era in favor of flying on air ships and putting cogs on everything.

The only good thing to come of it is the few examples of porn or lewd images.

>>96124570
One of the only decent things to come from it was The Difference Engine, by Gibson. Who then immediately moved onto making Cyberpunk, the superior genre.

>>96131789
>ignores the societal and moral quandaries of the given era
It always amuses me that "it's not about my personal political crusade" is something people try to hold against it.

>>96122048 (OP)
Extremely insufferable cogfops and leftard "muh punks" drove it into a ditch before it could really get going.

>>96131936
Its cowardice. The anti-woke/anti political correct are the flip side of the people they hate and they both make everything bad because of their bitching.

>>96131936
>>96132006
NTA but I think you guys are missing what anon is saying about
>ignores the societal and moral quandaries of the given era
I don't think hes saying "hur durr they it don't align with my politics" he's just saying the era its trying to emulate is an era of political and social changes. To gloss over it would be like having a medieval fantasy game without feudalism, sword wielding warriors, castles, etc... or a cyberpunk game without mega corps and cybernetics or a sci-fi exploration game with out space ships.

>>96132052
>fantasy game without feudalism, sword wielding warriors, castles, etc... or a cyberpunk game without mega corps and cybernetics or a sci-fi exploration game with out space ships
None of those things are "societal and moral quandries", or even vaguely close. If you're going to try and defend someone's idiocy at least try to make sense.

>>96132087
>To gloss over it would be like having a medieval fantasy game
>would be like
Please learn to read.

>>96132115
It wouldn't be anything like that. They would be - at best - ignoring established genre conventions. This is just bitching about the lack of politics in established genre conventions, ie complaining that it isn't about your personal political crusade.

>>96131936
>It always amuses me that "it's not about my personal political crusade" is something people try to hold against it.
Okay, but cyberpunk is about the relationship between man, society, and technology with a slant that's often pessimistic or neo-noir.

The false advertising and piggybacking off an actual genre only to not resemble it is another thing that annoys people.

>>96132087
>cybernetics and megacorps
>not societal and moral quandaries
Are you actually stupid?

>>96132268
Society existing is not a quandry.
>>96132260
What advertising? How do you even advertise a genre?

>>96132195
Archaic politics are not personal political crusades, and the term "punk" is a counter-cultural marker. Very, VERY few people who get involved in this discussion live under any kind of formal hereditary aristocracy for that to even theoretically be a "personal political crusade".

>>96132355
>"punk" is a counter-cultural marker
No it isn't. Not in "cyberpunk" at least, where it just refers to the low-lives in "high tech low life".

>>96132195
>It wouldn't be anything like that.They would be - at best - ignoring established genre conventions.
Anon. Cyberpunk defined the genre by evoking a specific feel with its lore and esthetics of a specific era in time(era defining things i might add as well), the 1980s/early 1990s (punks, rock n roll, corporate greed/power, Japanese economic hegemony, massive leaps in tech. Some of this is political too btw.)
Steam punk on the other hand is trying to do that with Victorian/enlightenment/early industrial age but glossing over the era defining things of those ages (social ,economic and political upheaval) to focus on Steam, cogs, tophats and corsets. It's why despite the cookyness of the genre its bland and shit.

>>96132343
>Society existing is not a quandry.

"Is it better if corporation supersede governments?" is. Bioethicists might be retards, but if you can't recognize that cybernetics have bioethical ramifications, you are a subtard.

>>96132414
>It's why despite the cookyness of the genre its bland and shit.
You'd think that ripping off Jules Verne would at least get some interesting adventure stories.

>>96132414
>Cyberpunk defined the genre
So the problem is you think "steampunk" has to be like "cyberpunk" because ... they are similar words? That's not what genres are. Steampunk isn't "trying to do" anything, because it doesn't fucking exist.
>era defining things of those ages (social ,economic and political upheaval)
Those aren't era-defining, they're constants of every fucking era.

>>96132436
>"Is it better if corporation supersede governments?" is.
It's also not relevant to any cyberpunk story I've ever seen, because the governments and corporations are largely just background and targets for heists. "Why steal from corps" is not a quandry when the answer is just, "That's where the money is."

>>96132462
>So the problem is you think "steampunk" has to be like "cyberpunk" because ... they are similar words? That's not what genres are. Steampunk isn't "trying to do" anything, because it doesn't fucking exist.
It's a pretty obvious example of branding that's trying to evoke something else that's more popular. Unsurprisingly people who like cyberpunk might think that steampunk is like alt-hist cyberpunk. Then it turns out to be boring Jules Verne ripoffs, which annoys people who were perhaps hoping for Snow Crash meets Indiana Jones.

>>96132493
>It's also not relevant to any cyberpunk story I've ever seen, because the governments and corporations are largely just background and targets for heists. "Why steal from corps" is not a quandry when the answer is just, "That's where the money is."
Maybe if your experience is limited to Shadowrun

>>96132547
Nothing like that in Neuromancer, which is the genre's most famous and defining work. Or the rest of the Sprawl trilogy. Or Hardwired, Or anything else.

>>96132462
>So the problem is you think "steampunk" has to be like "cyberpunk" because ... they are similar words?
Where did I state this? Clearly I'm saying steampunk falls flat because nothing in steampunk defines its own genre besides top hats and cogs.
>Those aren't era-defining, they're constants of every fucking era.
Are you having a giggle? Colonialism, the beginnings of industrialization, the begining downfall of aristocracy, the start of everyday people engaging in political discourse. These all happened in every era? These things are era defining to a specific time, the time steampunk is trying to evoke.

>>96122048 (OP)
Dieselpunk is way cooler

>>96132414
Given that the far-left wants to be communists and the far-right wants to be fascists, it's odd that steampunk never evokes "unions vs pinkertons". This whole setting seems to be perfect for the climate.

>>96132493
>It's also not relevant to any cyberpunk story I've ever seen
Are you a fucking retard? This is a major theme in like every cyberpunk piece of media I've ever played.

>>96133688
Because Steampunk was popular mainly among Adult HP fan type Millennial Nerds, the kind that crave the Neoliberal Daydream and Obama.
That's why they never engage with anything interesting, because everything interesting falls outside of their cultural interests.

Steampunk is good and cool and I like it. Do some of you guys like it too?

>>96131507
Pripri is great

>>96122158
Don't forget to add copious cogs and gears; bonus points if they don't make any sense from a functional, technological standpoint, because it's supposed to be different from fantasy.

>>96122048 (OP)
Does Thief count as steampunk?

>>96122158
Except, no it didn't, it just originated as Victorian speculative fiction, and a sci-fi magazine editor named it "steampunk" because cyberpunk was in at the time thanks to Gibson novels, and the editor in question wanted to simultaneously ape the fad and make fun of cyberpunk.
Steampunk has never been like cyberpunk, and it has never been INTENDED to be like cyberpunk.

>>96135562
I haven't heard that version before, what magazine was it? I remember something about the origin of the term in the foward to the Difference Engine but I thought Gibson and Sterling were the originators.

>>96132669
I didn't like the book and just glossed over it but there seemed to be plenty of criticism of modern "lifestyle as commodity" with characters needing to become (wage)slaves to corps to get anything done, plastic surgery being so accessible that a guy's uglyness was deemed "heraldic", and drugs being easily distributed to up the threshold of the abuse humans deem acceptable.

>>96131507
>Cyberpunk in the 1860's is such an interesting concept too. What sorts of things would you expect to see in such a setting?
Difference engines, a speculative technology based on Charles Babbage's mechanical computers but taken to a logical extreme effectively producing an informational revolution in the 19th century to go along with the industrial one.

>>96124452
>>no napoleonic war
By the time most steam punk takes place Napoleon is dead, unless your talking about Napoleon the 3rd, who's not nearly as accomplished as his namesake. If you like the time period of Napoleonic wars, look into a genre called "Manor Punk" which might be more up your alley.

Steampunk is just a worse Dieselpunk.
And the Leviathan series by Scott Westerfeld is great because it's Bio-punk vs Dieselpunk WW1

>>96122048 (OP)
>What Went Wrong
Not enough people played their games the way you want them to, and you'd rather focus on that than play your own games the way you want to.

The real problem none talks about is all the damn elfs and orcs running around. There's nothing wrong with "Fantasy world but it's 19th century" but I think it should be a separate thing from more sci-fi based steampunk, but people will sometimes conflate the two together.

>>96133640
Atom Punk>>>>>>>

>>96122048 (OP)
Nothing. There is not enough signature steampunk work, no conan, or tolkien, or star wars for everone to derive from. What's the biggest , most impressive, most famous steampunk work? Girl Genius? Arcanum? League of Extraordinary Gentlmen?

Without that, they're just copying some aesthetics badly.

>>96136188
The Difference Engine by William Gibson, an alternate Victorian history where Babbage's difference engine worked leading to a mechanical computer revolution.

anyone I've known who wanted to be into steampunk were so socially dysfunctional, they lacked the ability to hold a job and actually pay for any of the the nice things they wanted to dress in.
they were also so leftie that any perceived microagression left them bed bound and "lliterally shaking" for a few days

>>96135967
if you move it out of the industrial revolution it's not steampunk anymore. putting fantasy and alt history in to that milieu is kinda the whole point. if it's just sci-fi but some guy wears big goggles, that's sci-fi.

>>96136568
bold to assume people bickering about a genre on tg would have read that genre's foundational work.

>>96137292
>if you move it out of the industrial revolution it's not steampunk anymore. putting fantasy and alt history in to that milieu is kinda the whole point.
Is it now? I'm not saying it's wrong or shouldn't exist, but I feel a certain way when people call "Arcane" or "Legend of Kora" steampunk. Steam punk has burrowed from sci-fi of Victorian era like the works of Jules Verne and H.G Wells and should be consistant with the time periods science.
>if it's just sci-fi but some guy wears big goggles, that's sci-fi.
Speculating on how technology could develop in an alternate 19th century IS sci-fi, not all sci-fi has to revolve around spaceships and laser guns.

>>96126552
>That's why you go hog-wild on barely-plausible steam-based technology like ultra-miniaturized locomotives replacing cars
How is a steam-engine'd car "barely plausible"

1907 steam car

>>96132512
>Then it turns out to be boring Jules Verne ripoffs, which annoys people who were perhaps hoping for Snow Crash meets Indiana Jones.
That sounds awesome.

>>96136568
One example isn't really an answer. There are tons of Conan short stories, Conan clones, stuff written as a reply to Conan. Same in Cyberpunk.

A dude instantly relatable to another genre wrote one thing that was one of his less succesfull books. That's not the basis for a genre. And this has always been the issue with steampunk, it sounds like it should be a genre and there are things that could be labeled as steampunk, but no one cares about it as much as they did about Conan or The Sprawl or getting a harem in another world, so there is no genre, there is no production feeding off each other and making new stuff. Only individual works you could call a genre as much as you could call all green clothes "zephrins" and insist it's a type of clothing because it's green.

>>96137292
don't pretend to be smart just because someone who makes an awful argument you agree with.

>>96138534
Because it was in fact ludicrously impractical for things we expect of cars with quite a lot of post-Victoria developments, hence not catching on.

Nothing went wrong. It was a souless retarded idea, always has been. Whenever someone thinks they'll be the one to cash in on this genre they disappear because no one actually cares and leaves no mark.

>>96138596
Honestly, the steampunk setting that I think came closest to doing it right was Goodman's Dragonmech. Space aliens and mechs upheaving normal fantasyland I think comes closest to capturing the societal aspects that make cyberpunk interesting.

Speculative fiction inspired by the 19th century isn't popular to begin with.

Has anyone in this thread played a single steam punk RPG?

>>96124570
>It's not really a genre
If you know it when you see it, it's a genre.

>>96132260
>Okay, but cyberpunk is about the relationship between man, society, and technology with a slant that's often pessimistic or neo-noir.

That's what the original steampunk was too. After all, it was in the Steam Age that we first saw the labor of men replaced by machines and men themselves reduced to interchangeable parts in the view of the massive corporations that increasingly ran society. It was in the Steam Age that we first saw people leaving their towns en masse to move to massive slums in the cities to provide their labor in 12 hour shifts where no one would care if they dropped dead except to be annoyed by having to move a corpse.

Steampunk can and should be about the relationship between man, technology, and and an increasingly dehumanizing and alienating society.

...But instead, we mostly ended up tophats and corsets that have brass gears on them.

>>96124452
>Ottomans fucking the west
>prime sick man of Europe watching an Albanian steal Egypt

>>96124452
>>no slavery
The Industrial Revolution was a big factor in western abolition, since it created tools which were far more economical than feeding and clothing an army of chattel labourers. It's not exactly anachronistic, since abolition was a slow process, but it is kind of incongruous once you start introducing more fantastical extrapolations of industrial technology

>>96122048 (OP)
Jeff Mach.
People [normally] don't want to be associated with someone who got kicked out of a space over sexual assault and paying people issues only to ignore court orders and remake everything he was forced to sell off under a slightly different name and return to the same practices.
The fact that he married a girl only a few months after she turned 18 - after dating her for several years - when he's somewhere in his 60s just further turned people off from the concept.

>>96132087
Oh okay so you're stupid, we can move on

>>96135967
That stuff hasn't in been in vogue for over a decade though; it's more common to see a fantasy setting with steampunk elements than a steampunk setting with fantasy.