I think most rpg's get this all wrong. most assume all fights just last a few seconds, which they can, but even small fights can also last 10 or even 20 minutes. Someone could just be defeated in a few short parry and repostes of a few seconds, but melees can also last 10s of minutes if both sides are beoing cagey or cautious. As a point of consistency it makes sense why a lot of systems like dnd might use 6 second increments, but really I feel like either 10-15 second increments or somehow making an exponential curve would be more illustrative (first turn is 5 seconds, second turn is 10, 3rd turn is 15 4th turn is 30, and each additional turn is 30, or something like that). where if the combat is over in 1 round, thats where the 1/2 samurai slash sort of scenario occures, but each additional round simulates an ongoing skirmish.
heer is someone talking about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QV8t44YgEFE
I personally like the idea of assuming 15 seconds, since you are liable to get to a minute or a quick combat might only take part of the first round. It also allows more things to plausably happen in the background while you fight or for you to plausably defend a point for a reasonable amount of time.
Realism will always be poor as long as you have an hp system. Take soldiers in was vs a civilian kid. It takes about the same amount of damage to permanently hurt each. Healing is magic, not real at all. In reality, a single sword wound should be fatal. You need to suspend disbelief a great amount to even play a ttrpg and combat is by far the most demanding part of that.
>>96141187I mean, but hp doesnt represent just pure meat condition, but also your stanima and stuff usually. it being an abstraction of combate effectiveness, a crit being something that goes past usual defensive mitigation effects like armor or glances or a mostly parried blow.
I believe ad&d used 1 minute rounds as the other extreme.
>>96141249I’m just saying it takes one blow to kill a soldier or civilian all the same. HP based on what you’re talking about would be like 10:1, not 150 HP Barbarian vs 2 HP Wizard. Level doesn’t really make you more immune to swords.
>>96141136 (OP)you should try World of Darkness: Mortals, untrained combatant can take multiple rounds without as much as scratching each other
Sounds like a way to add complication for the dubious benefit of your players arguing how long they want a turn to be, or swearing up and down a previous one was 'supposed' to be longer or shorter based on whatever favors them.
>>96141298One square blow*
The issue with trying to accurately simulate any fight is that someone can die in a single hit if it's a good one in the right place, or suffer several minor injuries and make a full recovery, or suffer a mortal injury but keep fighting for long enough to kill the other guy before dying. Any attempt to actually make that function mechanically will be something utterly unfun to actually play.
>>96141298one *GOOD blow
Someone can survive 50 minor cuts and bruises, but a rapier through the heart kills anyone.
>>96141412I didnt say the pcs should have control of it, and I agree, scaling timeframes would be annoying to record. but I 10-20 second increments is feasible.
>>96141430>>96141541Just wanted to say the counter argument I’ve heard about this against my logic:
To your points, HP is not deliberately supposed to mean “more blood/can take more stabs to the heart.” I once heard that a high HP is meant to represent a fighter’s ability to turn mortal wounds into slight glances. That and your ability to shrug off real pain equaled at a higher representation of what you can stand as far as damage. Still, when a Barbarian “grins and pulls the blade in to grab his attacker?” Yeah, he’s gonna die.
>>96141574Wound be neat if some game with hp also had damage that did fractions of tal hp in addition to purely subtractive damage.
>>96141574This is how hitpoints was originally imagined to work as, including dumb luck in a lethal blow just barely missing.
What fucked this up was 3e, and the elimination of Save v. Death, with it's representation of things you simply didn't get lucky and grit your way through, like poisons, traps, suitable falls, environmental 'concerns'.
>>96141430I usually house rule in Meat Points.
>Everyone has Meat Points = the max damage output of the weakest weapon in the game>Attacks on players that are unaware of the attack or lack a physical capability/resistance to deflect that attack/damage type go straight to meat points, with any damage to Meat Points having a chance of permanent scaring.>Everything else goes through HP, which is now more purely a representation of stamina + experience.Some of the other things this allows me to do is to more readily offer damage and healing to HP as part of getting tired or getting rest, while Meat Points let me do thing like scar/endanger a character and implement the "brutal realism" rules of 1 week of rest = 1 MP recovered, while HP can more sensibly recover in D&D-like games when they do stuff like take short rests.
>>96141574Hit Points are, and have always been, ablative plot armor. If you're not a hyperautard faggot, once you get that they stop being a problem.
>>96141837So you use a variety of the 'Wounds/Vitality' system?
>>96141868see
>>96141756The problem was they changed part of the engine but didn't understand how it would affect performance.
>>96141877>So you use a variety of the 'Wounds/Vitality' system?Hm, an initial google shows that I do. Do you have any games that you know of that also use this? Or is this a common houserule?
>>96141136 (OP)Stupid. A fight will only go that long if both parties are unwilling to hit the other which is by definition not combat
>>96141756>This is how hitpoints was originally imagined to work asis this where "death saves" come into play?. Though to be honest, something like a cannon ball id probably go 50/50 death save or 6d10 damage or soething thing like that.
>>96142010literally true in irl sources as per the video. I can give you other examples like donald mcbane and other duels to the death and combats.
>>96141903I have used it in 3.5 and D20 Star Wars Saga.
>>96141917I speak of how the hp system was broken by taking parts out that made it internally cohesive, anon.
>>96142179Yes, the idea was that some things were just going to hit and kill you dead, without going through hitpoints. 3e created the idea of 'meatpoints' due to rules just not working internally cohesively.
>>96141136 (OP)depends on the game.
a fantasy samurai game would benefit from short combats times and lethal attacks to capture that "it's over before you realise it" feeling. a superhero game would probably benefit from longer combat rounds unless it's a fight between superman and joe schmoe. I'm not into superheroes, but I think most of the fights tend to involve a lot of back and forth and usually aren't quick
>exponential curvesounds weirdly forced and doesn't accomplish anything meaningful. just have a standard time and let long combats be represented by a high number of turns.
