New MkIV edition

Previous Thread: >>96135630

>HH 3.0 Leaks
https://imgur.com/a/jYokLre
https://files.catbox.moe/98h6h7.pdf
https://litter.catbox.moe/9zh539zknqu9vqso.pdf
https://gofile.io/d/cnJk0N

>New Edition upon us
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/setting/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>Thread FAQ (very old, remembers Age of Terra)
https://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8
https://pastebin.com/8riDmnhS
>30k TACTICA & TIPS
https://pastebin.com/Tm2P4QLp
https://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Age_of_Darkness-Warhammer_30k/2.0_Tactics/General_Tactics

『Adeptus Titanicus and Legions Imperialis』
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/legions-imperialis/
>List of Titan Legions with Badges and Colours
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17Jccq0V--SwJifLVLwbisYnQeqLlS2pMSiPbGXp1Brs/htmlview
>More lists
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_Titan_Legions
>What size magnets do I need?
5x1mm
>Tactics
https://1d6chan.miraheze.orug/wiki/Adeptus_Titanicus/Tactics

>Thread question:
Do you think the the enlarged vambraces are an indication that the new MkIV kit will have additional plates to stick on the heavy weapon arms similar to MkIII?

I was hoping this was "Investment Edition"

Forgot the subject line.

>>96142387
Yeah, the guy still has not explained which miniatures he bought that he thinks will be his retirement
Perhaps primaris lieutenant #23?

I'm increasingly getting the feeling the new design gives very little side to side mobility for the feet.

>>96142387
invested poorly now we cant afford a subject line

The threads have slowed down to a crawl again right when the other GW games got new announcements. So the threadshitters really were mostly tourists and secondaries after all.

>>96142429
The mk2 is also awkward at best for that.

>>96142447
I think it's because we got the announcements and so most people having HH on the backburner for other things came back all at once to shit on the changes and then dipped from the game entirely. I don't blame them as there is a limit on how long one can be angry for before losing interest and just moving on.

>>96142470
It's incredibly short compared to how long the anger about 2.0 lasted around launch. People have pathetic attention span these days.

>>96142470
The shitposting period lasted all of 2 days before the pdf article came out and everything calmed down for the most part

>>96142470
>there is a limit on how long one can be angry
They sound weak. I'm glad they're gone.

>>96142455
They all are. I checked some of the new beakies and the sides of the bottom of the greaves are clearly clipping into the feet - not because of mould artefacts, the model just clips in.

Whats the point of a flyer having smokscreen? It isnt ever on the table to use it.

>>96142492
weakness is a choice

iron within. iron without.

>>96142497
A clear sign of CAD slop

>>96142470
>there is a limit on how long one can be angry for
I'm busy working through my patched version of 2.0 with my friends.

>>96142503
I don't even blame CAD. if anything, CAD lets you avoid this issue more easily. The problem is the designers don't notice or don't care.

>>96142501
Hover, maybe?

>>96142483
Agreed, there is a kid on one of the epic 40k groups which I doubt will ever get into any games because he refuses to read even the free epic armageddon rules which come with training scenarios. At one point after being hounded by the older members he just went "I'll have chatgpt explain the book to me". It's sad.
>>96142492
Rejoice because as much as I channel it towards more constructive things my anger is bottomless.
>>96142488
Makes you wonder what kind of reaction will come after the legacies get released. No way it will live up to the image GW has tried and struggled to build for them.
>>96142505
Cool, anything to get people off the treadmill is good in my book.

>>96142514
CAD slop happens when lazy designers clearly don't give a fuck and leave in all kinds of mistakes, poor sculpting, and copy paste the fuck out of everything they can.

>>96142534
>Makes you wonder what kind of reaction will come after the legacies get released. No way it will live up to the image GW has tried and struggled to build for them.
I think for the most part it'll be some low level grumbling and whining, but overall fine?
It's going to come down to what units/options are fully gone, and for the most part the panic over that is over. There'll be some corner cases almost certainly, but the previous legacy units were pointed the same way as liber units so I'm not particularly worried that they'll be overpriced on purpose.

>>96142534
>I'll have chatgpt explain the book to me
Kick that fucker out. People who rely that much of technology will never amount to anything, and will always be confidently wrong about everything because "computer said it so it must be right"

>>96142534
>Rejoice because as much as I channel it towards more constructive things my anger is bottomless.
You might as well brag about cutting yourself like a 15 year old girl

>>96142534
>No way it will live up to the image GW has tried and struggled to build for them.
So, there's three areas I think it'll be a blow.
>Returning Units:
There's no guarantee these will be as good as before, or even have as close to as many options
->Expanded Wargear:
This got a single line in the article, apparently giving various characters Jump Packs, bikes, and Terminator Armour. If this covers all characters, it'll probably double the length of the Legacies, and listing it would've been a big win. I think they left it vague because they know it'll disappoint, and they wanted us to fill in the blanks and do the cope for them
>Currently changed units:
Tacticals with Chainswords, Recons with standard Bolters, all that jazz. There's no alternative Tac squad, so all those options are just gone. I know folks are jazzed about Destroyers and Tartaros Siege termies, but I think when the legacies drop, they'll realise how many units don't get options back.

>>96142516
Not a thing anymore

>>96142567
All they really need to do is give praetors + centurions + librarians/stormseers bikes and jetbikes and give a few more consuls terminator profiles and they'll be mostly fine

A LOT of consuls couldn't take any of the above already, so those can be skipped

>>96142576
By my quick count, 11 could take terminator armour, 9 could take both kinds of bike, and a further 2 could take jump packs.
So that's 11 termie profiles, 11 jump pack profiles, 9 bikes and 9 jetbikes.

>>96142606
Termie and bike profiles could be their own pages, but jump packs are so universal that it could be as simple as "Change this model's Movement characteristic to 12 and change their type to Infantry (Anti-grav)" or whatever

>>96142631
>but jump packs are so universal that it could be as simple as "Change this model's Movement characteristic to 12 and change their type to Infantry (Anti-grav)" or whatever
Yes. They could be. That's what they did in 2.0
But this isn't 2.0. 3.0 went out of its way to remove that option, and unless the designers realised between sending the libers off for printing and writing Legacies that they were retarded, I can't see why they'd do a 180 here.

>>96142554
Agreed, wish the leader would kick him out already even if he is just a kid. Having him spam me with messages asking for lists I already gave him is pretty annoying.
>>96142552
We know the units and I imagine they went the opposite direction of the libers and gave the consuls/units back most if not all the options considering the huge shitstorm that has been kicked up.
>>96142567
>If this covers all characters, it'll probably double the length of the Legacies
I think they might actually take a step back and remake termie armour, bikes and jump packs into wargear just to avoid that. Mostly because we have the unit list but with how much warcom stuff is outright lies I dunno.

>>96142631
>>96142606
>>96142576
Yeah this is kinda what im sitll miffed about is how many options they took, like what about chaplins, heralds, librarians, all that shit in terminator armor?

>>96142649
>remake termie armour, bikes and jump packs into wargear just to avoid that.
Would be too much of a 180 for me to believe that, but I could be wrong.
>we have the unit list
Oh shit, they outright say that's the full list.
Fucking wild. And not wise.

>>96142447
The majority of people who were interested in HH realized it's a piece of shit core rules edition with piece of shit codex books and already quit and filtered these threads. A few had to watch some battle reports first, then made up their mind that it doesnt look fun in the slightest. And a few were chatting about the game and then saw no one else was buying HH3 boxes and there is no community, as all their friends are refusing to play such a shit edition, so they bounced as well.
The entire HH3 scene will be literally nothing as soon as GW stops advertising for the game with 56 warhammercommunity articles.
HH3 has no fundamental appeal at all, so it cannot exist without GW life support shining a spotlight on it.

>>96142643
>>96142649
The issue with that in 3.0 is that tartaros and cataphractii have more differences now than just "5++ and sweeps or 4++ and no sweeps"

Cataphractii get +1T and slow and purposeful, Saturnine actually LOSE an attack, it's a bit beyond just a wargear choice now

>>96142667
Funny how the people that you claim are just as mad as you have all "disappeared" but you haven't

>>96142669
am the first anon - I recognise the issues with terminator armour, but that doesn't apply to Jump Packs, Bikes, or Jetbikes. Or the fact that the consul system let them consolidate a dozen different profiles somewhat efficiently.

>>96142447
I know I was. I started out making fun of the people who were losing conversions and armies, then transitioned into making fun of the doomers who were squawkblocked by GW's desperate response.

In the end, I'm only really interested in seeing Heresy partakers suffer, in whatever form it takes. The people who told GW "Yes, we will fund and play Oops All Space Marines" helped pour the cancer into the hobby as much as any other group.

Anybody have implacable advance?

>>96142683
Jump packs I think can be done pretty simply, but the bikes have different rules (like firestorm) and the jetbikes have different weapon options that should be represented somewhere. They're easier than termie armor, and it could very well just be one page of modifiers and a list of HQs that can take it for X price

>Or the fact that the consul system let them consolidate a dozen different profiles somewhat efficiently.
I'm fine with them being separate profiles because:
A) It's actually less pages, since consuls got nearly a page each anyway.
B) Consuls having more varied statlines is more interesting than everyone having a centurion statline with sometimes a +1WS

>>96142687
>The people who told GW "Yes, we will fund and play Oops All Space Marines" helped pour the cancer into the hobby as much as any other group.
Whatever alternative you're imagining is just as shit, and it's your attitude that will kill any possible enjoyment you could have. You will imagine a far off happiness as reward for your bitterness, but you will never taste it.

Faggot.

Post models.

I'm working on tac spam TS I never finished for 2e. I'll have 40 before the Satty box. Not sure if I want to do 3x20, Athanaean or get rhinos cut up into 10's.

>>96142666
>In addition to the units, the PDF will include options to equip many characters with more exotic wargear including bikes, jump packs and Terminator armour.
Satan-anon, after rereading the article maybe they will actually go with the above. The only constant thing in FW post 1.0 is how random and schizo everything has been.
>edition meant to be more charitable to footsloggers? have 3 years of tanks
>we'll resell the same unit multiple times in less than half a year: resin but with new molds, reboxed with plastic sponsons, full plastic
>supplement vol1 because we want to make this a series, vol2 never comes out(or rather gets renamed into a normal supplement to sell more copies)
>armoury of legions: SoH, blood angels, nothing else
>despoiler kit in resin followed by an announcement of the plastic ccw kit for a fraction of the price
It just feels like they are throwing so much at the wall and so far everything is falling back on their heads.

>>96142715
>Whatever alternative you're imagining is just as shit
I mean, sure, maybe, but how does that free you from your failure of responsibility?

You were asked, "Do you want to eat chocolate for breakfast every day" and you answered, "Yes da'." You told GW straight to their face that they could just repackage and iterate on their most successful thing ad infinitum, and you would show up to buy the variants.

>>96142669
We already had digital weapons modifying the A stat so it doesn't sound too farfetched.

>>96142732
It truly boggles the mind to imagine what would happen if they had some strange mix of vision and competence.

>>96142687
In 40K, Space Marines are more than 50% of all armies,
In 30K, Space Marines are less than 75% of all armies.

You're kidding yourself if you think one is all that much different to the other.

>>96142687
>the hobby
You are very far gone and you don't even realize it.

>>96142746
>I mean, sure, maybe, but how does that free you from your failure of responsibility?
I enjoy it and don't have histrionic breakdowns over plastic toy soldiers. I don't blow up issues involving the hobbies I enjoy into these unnecessarily explosive ideas because I buy the models I like, don't buy the models I do not, and play games with friends that I know.

If every new thing is the worst insult to you and your beliefs, then every single day is the worst day of your life. You are living in a hell of your own creation, and have no one else to blame for it.

Nigger.

>>96142687
Bros will write out shit like this and not realize how much they're just airing out their depression on something that has next to nothing to do with it.

>>96142687
Sounds like a cry for help to me.
>then transitioned into making fun of the doomers
Wouldn't have been the first time you transitioned either, I'm sure.

>>96142447
I was interested in getting into HH and asked a bunch of questions but the general tone and info I was getting about how good (bad) this edition is kind of made me lose interest. I check in maybe once a day now just to see if any interesting updates happened.

>>96142839
Amazing how people can see that word and their mind immediately goes LADYCOCK... HARD DICKED WOOOMAN now. It's worse than rent-free because your barely-suppressed fetish has clearly rewired your brain.

Jfc what is this thread? Is it due to lack of subject line? So many of you need to touch grass, urgently. Then post models.

>>96142862
If you're interested it's always better to check what the local players are up to, and wait for a month or something after release once everybody has calmed down a bit. Before and around a new edition coming out everybody is just hysterical.

>>96142716
Finished these dudes up last night. Taking a break from my usual army to paint something traitor.
Do you see many DG players in the wild, anons? From the events I've played in, I actually can't remember any. Also, can anyone give a quick rundown in 3.0 DG rules?

Autocannon heavy support squads still seem cracked?

>>96142576
>mostly fine
Nah. Plenty of us have characters with quirky wargear loadouts that have actual meaning because we've had those characters for literally a decade in some cases, fought hundreds of battles with them. Just throwing a few terminator/bike/jump pack options back in again won't cut it for many. I'm sure it'll placate a few of the terminal cucksoomers who've been desperate for any excuse to return to their normal servile attitude, but that's not everyone.

>>96142944
Not really an option because I am immigrating to a new country in less than 3 months and don’t have a good way to scope out the local scene.

>>96142947
My main opponent plays DG and IF. I am jealous you can take power scythes on any leader type model down to sergeants. I can only take my Ravens Talons on command. Power Scythes aren't crazy but you can have so many. Heavy weapons teams are very good, especially with how terrain works. You can hide 3.01" deep and move forward and still count as stationary. He uses autocannon HSS and they scare me. If I weren't RG he would pick up a unit a turn it feels like. Great reaction, hilarious gambit.

>>96142967
In that case you got more important things to worry about than how a new warhammer edition is received lol

Once the MKIV kit was sure to be remade I was going to get about twenty of the current model to keep as reserve in case I ever decided to do something with 30k at a later time and needed a supply of the proper models, but I can't imagine myself doing anything with 30k anymore since these changes are certainly permanent so I guess I'll be saving that money.

>>96142947
Nice work, but next time apply transfers before chipping. Looks more authentic that way.

>>96142985
This is true. I think a part of me wanting to get into it is so I can jump in and distract myself from the quickly approaching reality.

>>96142716
No pics but I assembled a Mars-pattern rhino with Deimos pattern cupolas. Oddly, the Deimos hatches are a tad too small for the Mars rhino body but fit just fine on a Mars predator turret.

>>96142981
>main opponent plays DG and IF
Interesting choices. Does he love 20 man tactical squads and get stupidly excited each time he gets to Fury of the Legion by any chance?

>>96143015
No, he doesn't really have many Tacs. Maybe that will change with the edition. Just 2x10 in rhinos.

>>96143015
Have yet to meet someone who does not get excited at the prospect of Fury of the Legion with a full 20 man tactical squad

>>96143063
Wait till you find out about orks

>>96143015
>he doesn't get excited at the chance to drown the enemy in 500 dice

Damn, Anons in the previous thread were right tarantulas are pretty fucking potent.

>>96143141
Yeah, I regret not picking a few up. Luckily I have a bunch I made using aegis quad autocannon bases and razorback/whirlwind turrets.

>>96143063
>>96143132
Don't get me wrong, I love fury of the legion and take 20 man squads just for it. Was more pointing out that IF (+1 to hit with bolters) and DG (count as having not moved = can always fury of the legion) are probably the best legions to use it.

>>96143141
I'm considering using 6 heavy bolter ones in my allied detachment. Which ones did you find potent? What did they do in your game?

>>96143157
I like the older ones more but recasts seem to always have a warped turret ring. I might get a box of the new ones to see how they are but I don't like the smoother mantlet.
>>96143173
Oh I'm just looking at the rules and I agree they seem pretty good. I could be wrong, of course, but being able to park something out of sight that can open up for free on anything that wanders into view can't be that bad.

>>96143141
Yup. Was already thinking a couple just because they're adorable. But after seeing that four tarantulas with hyperios missiles is only 150 points and they fire 12 shots with Str 7 ap 3 they're gonna see a lot of play for sure.

>>96143003
Okay nogame

>>96143205
That quad autocannon turret is also 10 fucking shots so having a gunline of turrets sounds actually plausible.
And the legacies PDF is gonna bring back all those fortifications.
All this in an edition where they tried to remove the Forge Lord?

>>96142447
Nah honestly a lot of 3.0 haters (myself included) realized it's pointless to bitch about an edition we won't be playing. I've instead been putting my time towards recovering and creating a 1.0 rules compilation for my local gaming group so we can all go back and have a fun time. We realized that we are now free of GWs shackles and we aren't always beholden to having to play the newest edition always. In addition we had a lot of people in my local scene who were excited for 3.0 until the leaks and it killed all of their interest for joining in, which really is such a shame.

>>96143224
Used to build huge static gun lines of turret weapons in Dawn of War 1 to keep my base safe, and am totally going to re-enact it in 3.0

>>96142669
Tartaros get +1T too though

>>96143236
I liked playing the techmarine in 2 and dropping a bunch of tarantulas in to box the computer in their deployment zone.
Turrets are just cool.

>>96143184
Yeah the old ones are cute.

I bought a bunch a month before the new ones were annouced, but I still like them, and only got them as decorate pieces really anyway.

Mainly the missile control one, with the cool dish, also because it slots into my FW realm of battle tiles as well, or generally as objectives.

>>96143226
What were the major differences between 1.0 and 2.0?

>>96143258
oh damn the dish is great I wish I had that.
The previous one looks more simplistic which I like. The new one is more armored but also seems too large for something that supposed to be a simple machine spirit.

>>96143300
Off the top of my head
>No reactions
>Dreadnoughts were vehicles
>The majority of terminators only had one wound
>Casualties were taken from closest to closest in shooting (so arti armor sgts couldnt tank for the squad)
>Standardized movement for unit types in lieu of a movement characteristic
>Legion traits were a little bit more expansive and came with negatives.
>Psychic Phase made powers more powerful but much more unreliable (exempting 1ksons and word bearers of course)
>Cover was a lot more comprehensive and the saves were generally speaking better as well.
That's most of what I can think of at the moment, but there's also a lot more minutia in the changes as well that I just cant list off the top of my head.

>>96143226
You write like a cringe anime protag

gay

>Legacies drops in less than 2 weeks
The True Sons of The Emperor are in control, stand down and stand by.

>>96143205
And they're one of the only units that can shoot flyers once they move out from behind LoS blocking cover in the movement phase. They're actually interesting.

>>96143337
Lmao remember when there was the rumor that dreads would be vehicles back again? That was silly

>>96143463
theyd be better off as vehicles. dreads suck balls now

>>96143226
You never liked reactions, did you? Some people here cry out for alternating activations, then complain about reactions.
I thought it was nice that I'd get to do stuff during the enemy's turn instead of hope I survive a full turn of enemy firepower

>>96143244
Their sight is movement-based. If you stay still, they won't shoot :O

Knights are gonna play pretty lame but this version of army building is pretty neat. We haven't seen page 22 yet, have we?

thots?

>>96143490
The backpack with servoskulls around it looks good, but a Votann model might be a bit too squat and short. The head would look nice though

>>96143471
I would give them WS4 BS4 regardless, though. I was thinking about making talons of up to three 3+ save WS/BS4 dreads representing regular marines, and a talon of a current 2.0 stats dread restricted to a single dread, costing +25 pts (175 -> 200), representing Venerable Officer Dreads

>>96143490
Looks like a shitty small version of the Techpriest in the Astarte fanfilm.

>>96143475
Nah, I've never been one for reactions. I also don't like the idea of alt activations for warhammer either. I think some people see other games using alt activations and they think it could easily be applicable, all the while they don't realize those games are often times immensely smaller in scale.

>>96143490
Multiple servo skulls is neat but that body is too small. Maybe cut the feet off and suspend it on a mechadendrite array or depending on how the kit builds put the torso on a techpriest's body

>>96143504
Your heart is in the right place but I disagree with 3+ save dreads.

>>96143485
are knights going to suck? feel like the game is better when knights suck

Solar Auxilia leaks where?

>>96143498
>too squat and short
The magos has a preference, please understand.

>>96143521
They don't seem very impressive.
With knights getting foot-soldier retainers or bonded automata and no more armiger tax they might be pretty cool to play with now, but probably not good

>>96143535
gw has no idea how to write knights so they are usually either OP or trash

>>96143521
If they can't field any fast line SA stuff, probably you could beat them with some heavy AT and Tac squads sitting on objectives, but I am worried most games will be just Tac squads sitting on objectives and it won't matter what else you bring as long as it's something.

There is a chance that knights will be very good and just wipe all your line stuff off the board and hold one objective with something with line and win that way.

I don't know. I am waiting till Nova where I can watch a bunch of games and armies in the wild and see how it plays and whether it looks and feels fun or just soulless.

>today I will remind them

>>96143557
Huh. Based

>>96143548
That's par for the course for an army that invalidates half of their opponent's firepower. They seem to be encouraging if not incentivizing taking some lighter mooks along with the knights now though so it evens up the board at least slightly. If you show up with 4 or 5 knights it'll probably be a trash list but if you show up with 3 or 4 knights and four or five auxilia units it might not be that bad.
The mechanicum detachment seems pretty shit without thallax.

>>96143557
Votann aren't Squats. You want Squats you need to go to the Necromunda Squat line.

>>96143510
>>96143498
>>96143513

>>96143553
Maybe all knights will have Vanguard or something. They need to be loaded with AP3 if they're gonna be at all valuable though. Rapid fire battle cannons need to whoop ass.

>>96143576

>>96143576
NOW THIS IS TECHPRIESTING

>>96143576

>>96143141
What ones did you run? I have 3 grav and 3 quad launcher, but I feel like I picked the worst options.

>>96143568
>"dark eldar aren't eldar"
Necromunda squats are literally imperial votann the same way demiurg are tau votann.

>>96143576
>we heard you wanted more mechanicus knights, so we're pleased to showcase
>the magos armiger

>>96143590

Where is a good place to read about the organization of space marines during the crusade and heresy? There's reference to captains, and sergeants, but I fail to understand how they interact with the command structure presented in game. The praetor describes being lord commanders, chapter masters, and first captains. But, a lot of named characters are treated as praetors, despite being captains of high number companies. Centurions in their description are officers in the standard command structure, like lieutenants and other captains. But also champions which I understood to be outside of command structure. Optae are the lowest level officers, lieutenant at the highest. I feel baffled.

>>96143701
I recommend checking out the black books as each legion had their own command structure and the black books go into some very nice autistic detail for unit markings as well as legion layouts.

>>96143519
I just didn't think 2.0 dreads should get to ignore krak missiles 5/6 of the time.
Sorry, still think so. So silly an autocannon is much better at killing dreads that missiles. They shoot twice, do twice as much damage and breach on a 6.
And what do krak missiles get? +1S over autocannons in the no ID edition, and conditional D2 for their AP3 damage.
Missile launchers also lost flakk. Did frags even get to keep their Pinning in this the Status Effect edition?

Dreads can't even be attacked with Melta bombs anymore. Imagine they were save 3+ and tell me what would change.
They suck because WS4 no longer makes them dominate everything else, that's the sole reason.

>>96143701
theres also a org chart in every black book for an entire legion

>>96143576
Now slap his ass on a tactical rock and you're good.

>>96143600
Huh?

It feels like Tarantula being able to shoot ground targets with Hyperios Missile Launcher is an oversight. It's three times more firepower than stationary Tyrant Seige terminators, and these guys are 300 points, while Tarantulas are 45 points for TWO. It seems like they forget that Skyfire no longer has a penalty against ground targets.
They removed 2.0 Helical Targeting Array from Sicaran and Doritos, and in their infinite wisdom slapped Skyfire on their autocannons instead, so you can't just FAQ Skyfire now. The new quad autocannon stationary gun also has that.
Dorito's Limited (1) Boreas Air Defense missile can now strike ground targets with AP2 D3 at full BS, as can its unlimited laser weapons with D4!
In short, they fucked up, and now they would have to introduce a new rule for overpowered anti-air weapons with Skyfire that can be used against ground targets and carefully watch which weapons they should put it on.

>>96143796
Cam't they just patch in a "can only shoot fliers" rule onto the missiles?

>>96143796
Oof. What does rapid tracking do?

>>96143796
It will be 75 for two hyperios, but yes, it seems wrong.

>>96143701
The Black Books cover it broadly, although individual Legions varied considerably and as the Heresy dragged on formal structures began to degrade.

>>96143796
kek. this whole edition is scuffed

>>96143825
Rapid tracking can intercept even if it isn't a defensive weapon.

>>96143796
>Dorito's Limited (1) Boreas Air Defense missile can now strike ground targets with AP2 D3 at full BS
>Dorito point blanking some tank or termies or another dread with four big-ass missiles like it always should have been able to
Damn

>>96143475
The problem with reactions is it can make doing something with your own unit worse than not doing anything at all, which should never be the case. Also reactions just generally HEAVILY favour shooting over melee, and its already a shooty sided game.

>>96143853
>>96143796
This is how you used them in 1e, so full circle I guess.

>>96143796
>It's three times more firepower than stationary Tyrant Seige terminators, and these guys are 300 points, while Tarantulas are 45 points for TWO.
Jesus Tyrants just keep getting worse and worse don't they

>>96143796
How fucking rushed are these rules?

>>96143236
DOOM Crater!!!

I used to make turret lines to my base and build up with some skirmishing, doing “cornered beast” scenarios in my head. It only worked on med AI or lower, no higher and definitely not players but damn I had so much fun doing this. Glad to hear I’m not the only idiot who did this. There was a snowy map too that was fun if you were Guard on the bottom base, could Basilisk almost the whole map. God I need to reinstall those games

>>96143796
We should make a compilation of all the mistakes we've found in 3.0 so far. Everything we disagree with.
Like melta bombs no longer working on dreadnoughts.

>>96143785
>>96143576

>>96143796
It's funny that a stock whirlwind hyperios has a higher rate of fire than the supposedly rapid fire missile launcher on the scorpius.

>>96143915
Now, put it on an abeyant and give the abeyant stilts as well.

>remove dozens and dozens of units because 'they don't have model kits'
>keeps in imperialis militia and adds yeomen

>>96143926
>add units with instructions on how to kitbash them
>remove units that would require kitbashing
Can't wait for 2028 when 3.0 will be good, right when they announce 4.0.

>>96143796
>can only overwatch or intercept
Is it actually going to be a big issue?

>>96143796
Just like in my Japanese Animes!

>>96143913
>Lose a gun for a special power spear, and gain +0.5 WS
>Save 10 pts
...or spend 10 pts, keep your gun and get full +1WS, +1A and +1BS like normal? You would never buy Phoenix Warden over Paragon of Battle. Literally no reason at all.

>>96143926
Marinefags will buy the journal sloptica
Mortalfags won't

>>96143918
That's because the Scorpius is blast. Meanwhile, the Hyperius is GW NEEDS YOU TO BUY THIS TURRET NOW NOW NOW

>>96143946
It's the principle of the thing, peasant.

>>96143951
>That's because the Scorpius is blast.
It was Blast back when it could fire 2-4 AP3 shots a turn.

>>96143796
I don't think the dorito is an issue. You'll hit on 3's, and medium tanks on 3's-4's. So 44% chance for lascannons to blow up a predator, 33% if you move. You have a miniscule chance to blow up a Kratos.

>>96143971
>>96143796
Wait no I'm stupid. 44% to pen per shot, and you need double pen, so about 20% chance.

>>96143954
You are the principle of the thing. With -1A

Had a really big Apoc game today. Four loyalists vs four traitors. 4k points a piece. Traitor victory.

Traitor deployment pic related

>>96143989
You're going to reject a promotion to Phoenix Warden by Fulgrim himself? Yikes, not a very good look.

>>96144013
Loyalist deployment

>>96144013
>scared warhound hiding behind crates
>dorito randomly guarding him
SOVL

>>96144022
I killed vulkan’s terminator bodyguard with my nullificators, and proceeded to kill him in two turn with my dark furies.

>>96144035
Cool traitor birds
I really want to make a small force of them but I'm not sure what I'd make

>>96144013
>>96144022
These are lovely photos, but please tell whichever loyalist friend of yours it is who owns 10 unpainted lascannon dudes that I am going to touch them tonight.

>>96144044
You should build a shock assault company. It is the only way

>>96144018
You cannot be betrayed if you don't consent, anon. Reminder Eidolon ordered Tarvitz to go in the first wave and he simply refused and sent Rylanor in his place. He then went planetside by his own decision.

>>96143184
any more pics of the mini in the middle?

>>96144013
>>96144022
>>96144035
Can't help but feel the board is too small for this.

>>96144085
It’s two full sized tables pushed together, the picture I’ve posted don’t display the full scale.

>>96144013
Why is 90% of /hhg/ iron warrior players?

1. Do we have solar Aucillia leaks yet?
2. Can I moan about my ordinatus being killed.

>>96144112
autism

>>96143913
>Saboteur lost combi-melta
>Saboteur locked to a knife
>Meltabombs no longer kill anything
So, what does he do now? Charge a Rhino, do 4 Dmg and fail to stop it because penetrating hits don't even stun vehicles anymore, and even Rhinos have 5HP anyways?
Charge a tactical squad and be unable to kill the sergeant because they can't duel anymore? Defeat the unit and be unable to kill it because sweeps were removed?

>>96142981
>Power Scythes aren't crazy but you can have so many
They aren't hot enough for you to want any of them, let alone several.

>>96144117
One of the two effected players.
>>96144119
Plenty of legions fit the bill. Iron warriors have the immense bitterness as well.

>>96144112
I’m a ravenguard player. There were two IW’s at our game. Autism is the answer.

>>96144131
Scythes are great on tactical squad sergeants and I think if veterans could take them it would skew DG into being a hybrid shooting/melee army instead of just a shooting army.
They're basically a maul and sword combined, S+2 and rending 6+. They have reaping blow so if you aren't stupid with positioning you can negate two handed entirely.

>>96144112
Easy to paint

>>96144122
>>96143913
>Melta bombs no longer kill even rhinos
They fucking WHAT

>>96144112
Strong rules, easy to paint, and IW warriors players feel as if they can relate to Perturabo.
>I was passed up for a promotion at my very easy retail job! Why doesn't my manager recognise my brilliance?

>>96143820
>"can only shoot fliers" rule onto the missiles?
It's either that or fixing Skyrife and introducing a new rule for autocannons.

>>96144140
Scythes, which need the entire unit to be outnumbered now, good on the very unit that goes up to 20 members?
>They're basically a maul and sword combined, S+2 and rending 6+
No they're not. Especially now that mauls have Breaching 6+ too. They are literally Power Axes with Reaping 2 for +10 pts, but Reaping no longer activates when you are touching two models - now it needs the entire unit to be outnumbered

>>96143834
>It will be 75 for two hyperios
yep, my mistake

So RAW the Imperial Fist reaction is to attempt suicide?

>>96144157
They've been through a lot, man

>>96143913
Wait so if you end up in melee with both a vehicle and another unit, you can no longer melta bomb the vehicle? Lol.

>>96143935
>Is it actually going to be a big issue?
they have a special free reaction that shoots at anything that moves

>>96144169
Oooh because he's busy fighting off the other guys omg

>>96144154
>Talking about 3.0
Sorry anon I was talking from a 2.0 stance. We're in a very awkward spot on this general where some people are going to 3.0 and others are sticking to 2.0.
You have more knowledge than me so I'll agree with your view on their 3.0 state.

>>96144171
>Mfw our drop pod lands in the middle of the tarantula cluster

>>96144157
Salamanders no longer kill themselves with their reaction (effectively, they now get to take armour saves against the self inflicted wounds.)

>>96144171
>stormwing interdiction cadre spam + tarantula spam
[it ain't me starts playing]

>>96144184
kek

>>96144181
Oh. Yeah I guess they were useable in 2.0 lol

So fliers are gonna be dogshit again yeah, since people will just take missile tarantulas?

>>96144169
>>96144178
>be a space marine with melta bomb in both hands, gonna save your whole squad from a dreadnought
>enemy guardsmen tugs gently on your knee armor
>have to put meltabomb back in your backpack and allow dreadnought to smush you into a crater
God this edition gets more shit every second. I see why everyone's cancelling their pre-orders.

>>96144184
>aftermath of a battle
>every single astartes is dead
>all killed by tarantulas from either side
>now the tarantulas staring at eachother, unable to shoot each other

>>96144191
What about a Strike Mission? I know Rapid Tracking says it would normally Intercept with full BS, but Strike Mission says Intercepts fired at them are as snapshots regardless.

>>96144202
>Rapid Tracking says it would normally Intercept with full BS
Rapid tracking is an intercept with non-defensive weapons.

>>96143796
>Play Alpha Legion, use Headhunter detachment, use Malefic prime advantage on the 2x2 Tarantula turrets to make them 4 daemon turrets
RAW Malefic vehicles are immune to glancing hits entirely, as they ignore all status effects and the penalty doesn't deal them any hull points
4 tarantulas entirely immune to infinite bolter shots
Kinda funny, if not actually all that special.

>>96144202
Skyfire ignores any penalty though.

>>96143913
Already exists to some extent

https://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/40K_Rules_Blooper_Reel#Horus_Heresy_3.0

>>96144202
Yes but you are also snapshotting so it doesn't seem worthwhile. Here's something else that feels like a mistake: you can only shoot centerline or guided missiles, and centerline weapons are snapshot. But every guided missile is mounted centerline (storm eagle, fire raptor, stormbird), so they snapshot with the guided missiles too.

>>96144227
>4 daemon turrets

>>96144250
>I asked the masters how much my hourly wage was for guarding this spot
>they laughed at me and walked away
>the warmaster will give me my righteous vengeance, hail stan

>>96144112
BCS (bitter cunt syndrome)

>>96144112
>he isn't in the know

>>96144112
I just think they look cool, although I'm debating between them and AL for my first legion

>>96144302
Choose Iron Warriors.

I have seen Knights Army List but I can't find any other leaks from Questoris book. Weren't they already leaked?

>>96144302
AL are the more boring everything unless you're willing to 3d print or buy a pile of third party bits like hydra scale armor.

If you're gonna simply paint GW models without conversion, definitely IW. Stripes and grimdark weathering is enough for them to be cool. Unconverted AL are just shitty teal blandness.

>>96144324
No

>>96144112
30k lends Iron Warriors and Alpha Legion fans MUCH better fluffy rules and options than 40k CSM does. I don't even think 10th Edition really lets the former run an armored list worth its salt.

>>96144202
Seems like flyers are shit once again

>>96144324
No, both the Knights and Auxilia libers have not been leaked yet

>>96144330
I was thinking of making the AL more visually interesting by doing them all in some stage of "uncloaking" but that'd probably take a ton of time. I think I'll do a test model first and decide from there, but I'm leaning IW because I did a kill team of them last month that was a lot of fun.

>>96144355
I think the "uncloaking" thing is more of a fanwank artificial meme that was canonized into warhammer40k sons of the hydra as a rare thing some sub-chapter uses.
I think it would look really stupid on a 30k alpha legion army. They werent about magical camo. Like the entire Alpha Legion fleet engaged the White Scars and the Space Wolves, they didn't do some color-changing shennanigans or make themselves look like a Dark Angels fleet to deceive the White Scars or anything.

Having active camo on a recon squad or headhunter squad, tolerable. But the tactical squads and tanks and majority of the army would always just be Teal.

>>96142447
GW addressed one of the major concerns (wargear and lost units) by previewing the legacies list. It's retarded to kick up a bitch fit until we see what that looks like.

Also consider that we might just be seeing people take a step back from the game as they're tired of GW's botched edition release and business practices. GW might sell a few boxes of Saturnine to kids who'll never build it, but if they've alienated and split their core player base then gg

Any solar auxilia pages yet?

>start painting a legion
>listen to or read something about another legion
>struck by how cool they are
>start to regret the legion I currently am building
>rinse, repeat

>>96144355
I suppose you could do the mimic thing...
...or you could embrace huge marines in baroque armour

>The explosion power needs the unit to already be affected by a Cybertheurgic status
I'm going to need two techpriests to get Thralls to explode, won't I?

>>96143853
This is what I've imagined my dreadwing dorito doing this whole time

>>96144112
Everyone is here is bitter and likes to complain. And they're usually right too.

>>96144112
Autism

>>96143901

Not rushed, just written by ChatGPT.

>>96144547
keep saying it

>>96144556

When the PDF's come out, people can just run them through checkers and we'll know for sure either way.

But some of these changes are ones that no human mind would ever make.

>>96144558
Please get help

>>96144377
I think the wargear is one of those fanned outrage moments that actually isn't that important but now people have mostly made up their minds at this point, even the most optimistic have seen nothing that suggests this edition is even as good as 2.0. It's hard to find a more positive place than YT and I've not seen a single Batrep where they haven't come across as frustrated and perplexed by the rules. I know it is a new ruleset but many have had time to play 10+ games. I've also seen little discussion on the force org actually being compelling to use, mostly batreppers have just conceded that all the benefits come for tacticals with line and all the prime bonuses they get.

Ahzek Ahriman

>>96144367
>>96144443
>>96144330
I appreciate the feedback and pointing out what it takes to nail the AL look in 30k. The resin mini designs are peak but I see I currently lack the resources to feasibly bring my army plan up to that standard. I wasn't aware of the origins of the "camo" and figured it was just something cool they were known for.
I'm absolutely going to paint up Exodus at some point, though, even if I can't run him. Guess I'm doing more Iron Warriors!

>>96144612
>Guess I'm doing more Iron Warriors!

Please help me. The rulebooks are giving me a fucking aneurysm.

1. Boarding shields give the 'Shield' trait. What does that mean and on what page can I find it?
2. Lascutters allegedly have a shooting profile but for my fucking life I cannot find it in the weapon tables. Where is it?

>>96144656
>What does that mean
Fuck all on its own. Some other warhrar, rules and reactions require the shield trait

>>96144656
the pdf is missing the volkite page

'shieldwall' reaction is +1 toughness for a shield unit. Without the reaction shields are for 4++ shooting+melee (boarding) or 4++ melee-only (combat shield)

>>96144563
The rules are convoluted and messy, highly likely to be shit but that's GW. The wargear issue is genuine and huge because it invalidates purchases, let alone time and effort put into the hobby. If you start disincentivising creativity and effort then you're going to get slop. Force org is a whatever change. It's a mini game of shuffling units to maximise prime benefits, I don't hate it but I also definitely don't think it's an improvement

>>96144672
>Without the reaction shields are for 4++ shooting+melee (boarding) or 4++ melee-only (combat shield)
5++ not 4++

>>96143528
I've bought the index so if we have nothing by Saturday I'll just leak the whole book here.

>>96143576

>>96144672
>>96144665


Thank you kind anons
Where is the Shield reaction detailed?

>>96144558
you know about tesseract? You can run the leaks through checkers too.
Also, we already did that 20 threads before and AI wasn't detected. Also, letting ChatGPT write a USR resulted in shit that had no context because ChatGPT doesn't understand what it's doing beyond constructing sentences.
3.0 wasn't written by AI, it was written by an autist who plays Emperor's Children and seeks le grande perfection in rule writing instead of keeping it simple like a chad would do.

>>96144742
around page 342/389 on the space marine libers PDF (not the main rulebook PDF) because shieldwall is a space marine advanced reaction.

>3 generals up
Why don't you fags get your own board?

>>96144750
It's written that way to stop autists misinterpreting/lying about rules to beat 13 year olds at the LGS. KT24 is also written like this and the spergs have still found their way around rules that later needed to be clarified via FAQ

https://youtu.be/NQdDbe3d3f4?si=nBZh4bvNov7nbyQd
>Inb4 buy an ad
This is the only 3.0 batrep I've seen so far but it looks pretty good to me?

>>96144765
Nice plastic toys

>>96144765
Fuck off, fat faggot.

>>96143490
Same energy

>>96136061

The problem is they tried to rewrite things to make the emperor seem justified in mistreating all of the traitor primarchs, but it just made the story not make sense.

They should have kept the idea that the Emperor punished a loyal son, Magnus, out of sheer spite, rather than it actually causing him harm.

>>96136879

Legio Tempestus actually is this, they're a Tzeentch-worshiping numerology cult by the time the Heresy is finished, and they're one of the greatest Titan Legions. Second only to Legio Mortis, of course.

>>96144759
yeah, but it failed. Good instructions are simple, it's called KISS principle and exists since the 1960ies. I always hate board- or card games that need 30 minutes of explanation and 2 rounds to get them and then the evening is over and the game isn't played for months, so everything repeats if that game is ever played again.

>>96144377

Yeah, I don't want to get into the game if there's going to be a new edition with this much revision in 3 years.

>>96144790
which is why people keep playing 1st edition

>>96144772
Sorry I just don't get the complaints (outside the missing wargear) when the game seems to play really smooth and weapons look pretty well balanced.

>>96144776
Same energy

>>96144802
Magos Gimpus really let himself go...

>>96144799
if you haven't noticed any of the crippling problems, you're simply mentally retarded and we have no reason to be listening to you. The edition is a complete and utter flop, nobody is going to be playing HH3 at all.

>>96144794
The eye of horus guys keep saying they're going back to 1.

>>96144845
not an argument macca

>>96144790
yeah, that's the #1 dealbreaker. That and GW doing zero balancing for anything but 4-turn-games of smoosh tacticals into 4 butthole circles. (If you house-rule a game to last 7 turns, you have to house-rule change the points costs of 600 unit profiles as every single unit is priced for 4-turn-smooshfest. Tacticals can only compete with Justaerin terminator spam because the terminators only get 2-3 turns of work in before the game ends. Same with the indirect artillery coming from invisibility zones, in 7 turns it just clears the board.)

Even if the edition wasn't a complete and utter mess (which it is), them giving barebones shitty army rules so they can sell 25+ paid DLC rule books that they can invalidate in 3 years time to change a few rules on 25 more PDFs is unforgivable. HH is not a way of life, it's just a casual side hobby. Not going to participate in that level of paid churn slop.

The average player does maybe 3-5 games in a 3 year edition. This game is nowhere near fun enough to justify having to learn an entire horribly written shitty 600 page set of rules for 3-5 matches before it gets rewritten. And that's even if you pirate rules and don't pay $300+ for the scam.

What does Rapid Tracking do btw, couldn't find it in the pdfs

>>96144884
>>96144225

>>96144778
pretty much all of GW's shitty black library retcons don't make any sense.
Such as the first and second major battle of heresy.
Istvaan V, the nuLore is that 3 primarchs rush entirely retardedly against 4 traitor legions with 4 traitor primarchs in the perfect kill-those-3-primarchs trap valley fortification zone.
There's no possible way that action is explainable.
Even with zero betrayals, Ferrus could run ahead, and get attacked 2v1 by Fulgrim+Angron and the two of them would quickly tear him limb from limb. Horus wouldn't even require daemon-empowerment to dart to the side and smash Vulkan into pieces, leaving Corax alone against 4 traitor primarchs and likely to die.
If you have Horus+Angron+Fulgrim+Mortarion grounded with their armies, you don't attack until the 7v4 actually arrives and then you get all 7 primarchs into a single group so that they cannot be defeated-in-detail (the most basic level of tactic from even Napoleonic warfare)
Primarchs are supposed to be 3000 IQ super-geniusese that can handle 1000 spaceships and 100,000 soldiers at a time, yet black library writers are so stupid that they play like a 10 year old trying starcraft on his dad's nintendo64.

>>96144783
>worship numerology
>only get to wear stupid checkerboard shit patterns
WHERE ARE THE TITAN LEGION COVERED IN FRACTALS, GW?!?!

>can get away with spamming seekers because its fluffy for the legion, fits the detachment and the seeker page even specifically mentions the alpha legion
problem?

Post models

>96144936
Fuck off back to 40k with this shitty attempt at bait.

>>96144799
The rules are illegible. If you don't think so then congratz, your brain can memorize 9 chunks instead of 7. I can't read this shit and I DON'T WANT TO.

Additionally, many people can't keep their armies as is. It might be something like a wrong weapon option, it might be that the unit is missing, it might be that the whole army is broken. I felt that way when GW changed the DA Ironwing RoW from take (almost) what you want as long as you have at least 50% armour on the field to you want Predators as troops, you want Sicarans and the Kratos tank. That's when I was out, sitting on 500+ EUR of garbage (Damocles, Medusa, Typhon, Troops with Rhinos etc). Now the same thing is fucking happening again but for more people than those who played that specific legion RoW.

I somehow fixed it because I bought a Spartan and repainted the Terminators from my second legion and mix my heavy squad with my plasma support into Interemptors to get a Pride list for my DA. This way I don't lose too much and that shit would even work with 3rd edition. Except that all special rules of the legion were dropped (it was quite fun to buff single units in a certain aspect like better melee or better boltguns) and now that shit is gone again.

I don't wanna play it. I learned 40k 6th&7th, switched to HH and everything they did in 40k 8th+ and HH2+ was adding bloat with reactions, stratagems, fucking play cards, while trying to rotate out more of my units (you bought a Medusa squad for a fuckton of money? Well, guess who needs Auxilia now to field that model - you can always expand!1!!).
Right at the moment I look at the 1.0 and 2.0 rules and think: whatever was doable in list building of either edition is great: HH1.0 allows unit X to take a LR as DT, HH2.0 allows a Rhino. Why not both. Also, take RoW of both, bam, lists stays valid. Then play with 1.0 / 40k 7th rules.

GW's communication is shit (teasing and bad excuses). Fuck Pardo too.

>>96144951
>40k
Fuck are you on about

>>96144810
He's been on a downward spiral ever since the loss of Forge World Latexica.

>>96144935
>AUTILON SKORR
Does the model have much alpha legion iconography or is he easy to steal for another legion?

>>96144936
nice painted woman (yes, that means two things)

>>96144952
Yeah pretty much this.

>>96144879
>The average player does maybe 3-5 games in a 3 year edition. This game is nowhere near fun enough to justify having to learn an entire horribly written shitty 600 page set of rules for 3-5 matches before it gets rewritten.
I am pretty much in the position you describe, of playing a handful of games per edition. I played 3 games of 1st, 2 games of 2nd, and not sure how much 3rd I'll end up playing. I think you have a misunderstanding of the motivations of somebody who learns horus heresy to play 1-2 games a year. Trying to learn the rules, and strategizing / listbuilding is the fun part. Don't get me wrong, I don't think 3rd is well written ruleset, and I don't think it will play out very well. But at the same time, that was my opinion of 2nd when I played it. I have had fun reading and trying to understand 3rd, and I will have fun building and painting additional units for the strategies I want to try. The amount of time I spend actually playing games is miniscule and inconsequential comparitively.

>>96144927
In Horus Rising, Garviel Loken is blown away by the magnitude of Horus's political skill (Horus used the mournival to do a good cop / bad cop routine with him.) I don't think you could ever count on BL writers to portray the primarchs as genuises.

>>96145006
just because you're retarded enough to like punishment doesn't mean everyone else does too. What actually happens is the masochist who likes dead games goes to the game store, "anyone play <mydeadgame>?" "No." "Do you want to learn it?" "No."

>>96145026
Again, I don't think you are entirely wrong. 2nd edition was already dead at both the LGS's I go to. HH as a game doesn't make sense for most people because you have to learn a fairly complicated ruleset and field rather large armies for a game that, regardless of the condition of 3rd edition, has never been that great of a ruleset.

>>96145024
>Leman Russ 5000 IQ ploy of "let our biggest and most valuable flagship get left exposed in front of the rest of the fleet and lower its shields and let the enemy shoot us to death all they want, maybe Alpharius will teleport over to monologue to me" was somehow unsuccessful.
>Alpha Legion used the "just keep shooting the idiot's ship" gambit.
>Leman Russ primary primarch fleet gets assfucked by some random Alpha Legion fleet and crippled and he loses the lives of thousands of his men.
- Leman "I was only pretending to be a retarded wannabe-viking" Russ (actually retarded though)

>>96145051
Russ just failed a skill check, Dorn succeeded.

>>96145051
Worked for Horus

>>96144959
Don't think I scraped any iconography off mine, it's just his personal heraldry. Autilon Skorr can go deep cover easily, as it should be.

>>96145051

Leman Russ having a lower IN stat than the other Primarchs would be very funny.

>>96143796
>Tarantulas are 45 points for TWO
The missiles are not that different from the las canons
They are better against 3+saves but worse against 2+
They are also 75p for basically 2 ap3 autocannons, not 45
Siege terminators are just bad
If they messed something up it's not the Skyfire, it's giving them BS4
But even then they are made of paper, the second you shoot a lass canon, or missile launcher at them they die even faster than a HSS and they can't return fire either
They are nowhere near as broken as you all are making them out to be

>>96145024
Garviel Loken is a captain with no experience in anything other that war and simply following the chain of command. Someone being smart doesn't mean being instantly proficient in everything. That's how morons write smart people. Loken was conditioned pretty much most of his life to idolize and look up to Horus and you're surprised that he reacts positively to him?

>>96144171
Yes, cuz that reaction is the only way they have to attack, they can't do it in their own shooting phase
They also can't do it more than once since you can't react more than once per unit and they can't use other reactions like return fire

>>96145116
>AV10
Forget las canons, a bunch of bolters can probably glance them to death

>>96142375 (OP)
So how does the turret work in the starter set? Do you get to forward deploy it or something? I can’t see it being too useful

>>96145150
>he doesnt know about the demon turrets

>>96145172
The ones that you need a prime slot for?

>>96143717
>Imagine they were save 3+ and tell me what would change.
NTA, but the biggest issue is that everything AP4 and below is suddenly twice as effective. Even bolt pistols get through twice as often, and stuff like Volkite will be much more likely to shred them.
Going from 2+ to 3+ benefits everything but the anti-dread weapons.

>>96145181
of which certain legion detachments (e.g AL) have prime slot recon slots so you can do it

>>96145154
It's a 5++ bubble projector. It works plenty fine on your deployment zone

>>96144927
>There's no possible way that action is explainable.
Sure, if you ignore the characters and circumstances involved and argue in bad faith. The traitor fleet was absent. Ferrus was in charge and saw this is an opportunity. Suppose he waits and the fleet comes back. You now have a worse fight on your hands and the enemy may well escape. Ferrus was also, like any human being, influenced by his emotions. He was famously hot tempered and was itching for vengeance. So he says go in with what you have. The others can serve as a second echelon when they arrive. In fact, had the other stayed loyal it would have been fine.
Horus, naturally, exploited this and created a trap.

It's really not surprising in hindsight when you consider the characters involved. High IQ won't save you if you're not thinking straight because you're turbo mad over being betrayed by a long time friend. This is how morons think intelligence works. Being smart doesn't make you an emotionless robot who sees all ends and doesn't ever make a mistake.

The annals of military history are full of smart, competent people who made a shitty mistakes. Why should the primarchs be any different?

>>96144799
>Sorry I just don't get the complaints
Maybe you should use the IF advanced reaction.

>>96142375 (OP)
OP is an idiot
post models

>>96145185
Yea, ok. Good way to spend a prime advantage, making it so tarantulas don't die to basic bolters
Go for it. They still die to basically anything else than isn't a rotor cannon

>>96144927
For me, it's the fact that Dorn apparently put the reprisal force together.
And he included the Night Lords.
Dorn, the inflexible bastard who probably had to have his face rebuilt after Curze did some impromptu carving work on it...
Decided to send the Primarch who tried to kill him and his infamously troublesome legion to help out at Istvaan.
That was smart.

>>96145213
given that the only other prime advantahe they can take is logistical benefit on one of them, yes

>>96145205
>The traitor fleet was absent.
Well, as long as the loyalists didn't have any hyper-smart commanders who could have considered "Guys, what if this is a trap?", that works. I'm sure glad that neither primarchs nor marines are ever noted as being particularly smart.
>Suppose he waits and the fleet comes back. You now have a worse fight on your hands and the enemy may well escape.
Yes, 7 legions and their fleets vs 4 legions and their fleets is a much worse fight than 3 legions with their fleets vs 4 legions whose fleets could be anywhere, with dug-in fortified positions.
>Being smart doesn't make you an emotionless robot
And being a good commander - which both primarchs and marines are repeatedly noted to be - does involve being able to put your emotions aside and focusing on the task at hand. Shit, for some primarchs, doing that was a prequisite for the Emperor putting them in charge.

>>96144927
yeah when did Istann III and V get separated? Reading 4th ed era material only Istvann V is mentioned and basically in the same way III occurred with the loyalists dropping to defeat 'rebels' and being blitzed from orbit.

>>96145205
You can't use logic in the 40k universe.

The Loyalists could have virus bombed the planet or just blown the entire place up and been done with it.

Or just done nothing and shot every single landing craft that tried to come off the planet surface. Good luck winning from there Horus.

But in a tabletop game it'd make for a shit recreation. Loyalist player roll a d6. You can't miss even on a 1. You win.

All this "so and so is stupid" is because the actual solution would make for a dull setting of boring characters doing nothing.

>>96145230
>Well, as long as the loyalists didn't have any hyper-smart commanders who could have considered "Guys, what if this is a trap?", that works.
Vulkan was concerned, Corax was silent. Ultimately, Ferrus is in command so it's his call. He prioritized going in, preventing escape and taking vengeance over playing it safe and risking escape. It's an understandable decision given the circumstances and characters involved.

Also, if anyone thinks it's a trap the correct decision is to leave and not fight at all. Your demand to attack together would lead to a massacre anyway, maybe even a worse one since much of the Loyalist fleet did managed to escape this way.

>And being a good commander - which both primarchs and marines are repeatedly noted to be - does involve being able to put your emotions aside and focusing on the task at hand.
This is simply not how humans being work. You can't turn off your feelings any time you want and someone as belligerent as Ferrus certainly couldn't when he was faced with the betrayal of his best friend.

Again, the annals of military history and chock full of competent, smart people making a foolish decision driven by their feelings.

>>96145116
Tarantulas aren't for staying power, you take them so you can blow up the enemies Rhinos in their turn 1 movement phase and strand their tactical marines, making it harder for them to capture objectives early.

>>96144612

Last edition it was a close toss up between NL and AL and NL won because I felt they had some more fun conversion potential and slightly better rules.
And the only reason I felt that way was because of how toned down they made AL's rules from the original playtests.
Like some of you weren't here for those bonkers pre-release 2.0 leaks and it shows. AL were insane. You couldn't react to them, and they could poach multiple units from other factions.
Sadly, I then worked out much later that their actual ability + Smoke Grenades was actually REALLY good if you built it right. But by that point I'd already built and fully painted about 1500 points of Nightlords, freehand lightning effects and all, complete with multiple conversions using bitzbox and etsy sources components and I was commited to it.

>>96145253
Istvann V was the big deal, III was basically a warm up for it and added when they realised that the traitors probably needed to have purged their own ranks somehow first before they could successfully pull this shit off.

>>96144202
You intercept at a table edge where you can hide behind LoS blocking terrain. Just don't shoot anything with sky fire. Only tarantulas can shoot flyers after the move into the middle without return fire.

>>96144952
>Additionally, many people can't keep their armies as is. It might be something like a wrong weapon option, it might be that the unit is missing, it might be that the whole army is broken. I felt that way when GW changed the DA Ironwing RoW from take (almost) what you want as long as you have at least 50% armour on the field to you want Predators as troops, you want Sicarans and the Kratos tank. That's when I was out, sitting on 500+ EUR of garbage (Damocles, Medusa, Typhon, Troops with Rhinos etc). Now the same thing is fucking happening again but for more people than those who played that specific legion RoW.

I think I've got... three models, in my entire 2k list which is legal currently?

>Terror Troopers have guns AND chain weapons
>Veterans with Nemesis Bolters
>Recon Troopers with Normal Bolters
>Destroyers
>Moritat without a Jump Pack
>3rd Party Saturnines with Combi-Bolters and Fists/Claws (not a surprise or anything, but included anyway)
>Boxnaut (Again not expecting it to be in there, but it's part of my army.)

So that leaves... one Vigilator. One Leviathan and one Centurion/Praetor with a Bolt Pistol and a Headsmans Axe. Three models.

>>96144936
I told you all nuMK3's torso were fem-coded deliberately to encourage faggots and slags to convert female marines. I fucking told you and you all called me a tranny-obsessed lunatic, well here we fucking are - an edition with all reference to the innate maleness of marines purged from the books and insta-influencers posting fem-MK3 conversions. Will you continue to refuse to see what's right in front of you?

Meanwhile I'm sitting here having never played a 2.0 game, happily enjoying the fact 90% of the units I use didn't arbitrarily get nerfed to AP4. Will probably skip 3.0 too lol. When I saw things like the Typhon and glaive bounce off termis I was like "yeah no thanks".

>>96145323
you're still a tranny obsessed lunatic tho

>>96145296

The problem there being is that by doing it that way it makes Vulkan, Corax and ESPECIALLY Ferrus look even dumber than they are.

Like, Ferrus they tried to excuse as him just being so mad that his brain left his body. A metaphor that would become fact by the end.
But nobody, not even Corax seemed to have even made the slightest provision for "what if these reinforcements aren't?"
They literally just saw Horus, supposedly the emperors favourite boy, and most trustworthy of all Primarchs, go full traitor and reveal that the DG, and the EC are with him as well (nobody is suprised by WE, except perhaps that it took them this long to rebel) and the idea that it's definitely just those four Legions seemed to have accepted... for some reason?

Like... nobody in that room, with, what are we talking almost a full millenia of combined military experience? Even seems to have asked if that's really how deep the rot goes?

Sure, Alpha Legion gonna Alpha Legion. Sure, Perty and his boys have that Hard to Understand Autism, and sure Word Bearers had been pretending to be loyalists longer than everybody and they're pretty good at it by now.
But Night Lords? REALLY? The guys who would have been given the Old Yeller treatment by Russ if he hadn't been prank call redirected to Prospero? Night Lords? The guys with more demerits than the fucking World Eaters? Those guys?
You're just going to assume that Horus won't have gotten this man wearing a human face on his pauldrons on his side?
All three of them can LITERALLY SEE THE PLANET WHERE HE SEEDED A DROPSITE WITH NUKES FROM THE WINDOWS OF THE SHIP and not one of them seems to have gone "Hey, that would be a good idea!" at any point.

Plus, it makes Horus's plan here look like a fucking Batman Gambit that only works if all three do exactly what they are about to do, with no provisions or contingency planning.
They do even a little bit of that and he still wins, but it's Pyrhhic as FUCK.

>>96145116
And they still can't see into los blocking terrain. I don't think they're be as crazy as people are speculating, even with infiltrate.

>>96145328
>Never played
>Thinks his opinion matters

>>96145210
What paint are you using for the armor? I'm trying to get a scheme but darker for my Flesh Eaters.

>>96145339
>But nobody, not even Corax seemed to have even made the slightest provision
in his defence, Corax tried to raise objections in a multi-legion force at Gate 42 and look where that got him.

>>96145349
I've never eaten a bowl of shit. I have the opinion that a bowl of shit would taste shit. Would you care to enlighten the rest of us, Dung Eater?
Also, none of us here have played 3.0 but there are hundreds of opinions about it since the rules got leaked, retard.

>>96145339
istvann V pitch is retarded yes

>>96145363
opinions without experience don't matter; simple as

>>96145339
People canonically ignore Corax all the time, even if he did raise a complaint no one would care.

As for Vulkan, I honestly have no idea why he didn't suspect Curze considering their relationship.

>>96145368
Literally the best argument for Canadian Healthcaring yourself.

>>96145376
We're on 4chan senpai, no need to censor.

>>96143796
They dont seem that busted. 75pts for 6 s7 Ap3 d2 shots at BS4 with the caveat that you dont pick your targets (fuily)? That seems fine. Its also strapped to a 2hP AV10 box, which is still essentially tissue paper.
Tyrants are S9(10?) missiles with armorbane, its a very different damage profile and target. The big ones are lascannons, there to crack tanks.

>>96145376
opposed to what ? legendary usa healthcare ?

>>96145276
I'm convinced you all have not read the mission rules
So the plan is to use tarantulas to stop objective rushes and the opponent getting ahead in points, even tho you can just throw a vanguard unit and troop to recuperate those points in your turn.
And you do this, in the 1 out of 3 missions that actually has a midfield objective, by placing a 2HP vehicle made of paper in the middle of the board, where the enemy can kill it with basic bolters to get First Blood for even more VP.
And it can't even stop the objective rush bc it fires after the models have moved
And if you actually manage to kill a rhino you are basically just making it more difficult to score First Blood yourself since you killed the easy to kill unit in your opponents turn instead of yours
That sure is a great strategy

>>96145379
oh was the retard talking about suicide ? all this newspeak is getting tiresome from idiots who haven't even read 1984 before spouting it

>>96145339
>All three of them can LITERALLY SEE THE PLANET WHERE HE SEEDED A DROPSITE WITH NUKES FROM THE WINDOWS OF THE SHIP and not one of them seems to have gone "Hey, that would be a good idea!" at any point.
But that didnt work, Istvann III was an army with full air superiority, bombarding an unprepared loyalist force and still needing to ghet their hands dirty because the orbital bombardment didnt get everyone because dug in astartes are hard to remove.

On Istvann V theres a dug in traitor fortress with orbital shielding and shit. A ground assault is necessary to displace it.

>>96145389
Vehicles also dont contest or score points. So youre just feeding the enemy vanguard VP.

>>96143490
Looks like he's ready to do a jutsu.

>>96145401

I mean seeding their own reinforcements dropsites "just in case".

Like, if it was just the Primarchs and Legions that had been problem children in the past. Like Lorgar, Angron, Conrad and hell maybe even Jaggy. Then I would understand those three assuming the rest of the Legions to be loyal as a matter of course.
But Horus was LITERALLY the guy chosen by the Emperor himself to replace him as the leader of the Legions.

If HE can go traitor, then literally ANYBODY could be.

>>96145401
couldn't they have blown up the planet from the other side ? istvaan V has so many pot holes it's starting to look like a racket tennis

>>96145339
>You're just going to assume that Horus won't have gotten this man wearing a human face on his pauldrons on his side?
Konrad was also obsessed with "punishing the guilty". Putting down criminals who had broken the law was his whole thing.

People also forget that the wider Imperium didn't really know the details of Horus's rebellion. Nobody knew about the Chaos corruption, or what his plans really were... Opinions ranged from "he went crazy" to "it's some xenos perfidy" to "maybe he's just gonna fuck off and make his own empire". Characters in setting don't have the sort of omniscient knowledge that reader do. Fog of war is a massive bitch and it's easy to see things in hindsight.

>>96145418
>If HE can go traitor, then literally ANYBODY could be.
this is why i refuse to accept the BL heresy as it is

>>96145339
The issue is that "what then?" is a real question. Okay, they consider the unthinkable a 2nd time (and even more primarchs have turned traitor), what then, do they withdraw from Istvan without engaging in case curze was secretly even more evil? Do you engage in what is, even under ideal circumstances, a nightmare scenario battle with half your army assigned to watching your back? Do you go phone valdor and ask him to be the adult in the room?
Keep im mind that time is in a sense against you, the longer you wait the deeper the traitors dig in, the closer whatever scheme they may have comes to fruition. Do you sit there until whatever xenos tyrant or traitorous imperial army detachments or whatever else he has in his corner comes to turn the tables on you? Or do you take the chances and strike while the iron is hot and you have what should be sufficient numerical superiority to take horus out and send him to the emperor in chains?

>>96145379
It's not censorship, I just love mocking Canada.

>>96145425

The fact that the most trustworthy man in the Imperium just declared open war against their Not!God Dad should have had those three Primarchs, supposedly of the twenty or so most experienced commanders in the entire galaxy, AT LEAST HAVE SOME KIND OF CONTIGENCY PLAN.

>>96145424
Couldnt they have flown round the back and blown up terra? At some point you have to accept that actually blowing the planet up is somehow rarely viable or the entire setting doesent work.

>>96144723
Thank you for your sacrifice anon

>>96145425
>Fog of war is a massive bitch and it's easy to see things in hindsight.
Excellent point. Doesn't apply to Curze. Bro almost killed Dorn, Dorn was the one who decided to put him in the reprisal force. Big fuck up from the fister.

>>96145368
Nice try, shill.

>>96145432

Thing is, Ferrus was detirmined to get his pound of flesh and didn't care that even if his plan worked, he was still going to shatter his legion in the process. They were fucked either way, and should not have let him actually take command in his state of mind.
At the very least they should have told him to calm down and eat a snickers.

There had to be some kind of contingency plan in place for more treachery. Seeding their dropsites with Nukes would have worked. Setting their dropsites to be easily defendable against would have been another.
At least Corax managed to save some of his Legion in the end and escape. Vulkan and Ferrus didn't even manage that.

>>96145389
>>96145409
Tarantulas are Expendable (3) anonchama. They're literally worthless to kill, if you'd ever score VP for any reason when killing an expendable unit you subtract the expendable value from the result.

If your vanguard value is below 4 you get nothing. You also not only get -3 from first blood you actually waste it by shooting the Tarantulas first.

You're just infiltrating BS4 guns that shoot in the movement phase that your opponent has to ignore until he kills one of your other units, lol.

>we will get a second plastic MkIV kit before we get plastic MkV

>>96145418
>I mean seeding their own reinforcements dropsites "just in case".
The issue with leaving forces behind to guard the rear is that it sabotages the frontal push, you need the momentum and the force concentration, rather than just drip feeding marines into the valley of death.

Its also hard to imagine both a situation where "the legions coming to assist us turn traitor" and whatever force you leave behind to defend your dropzone are significant enough to matter. Cool, you left the 3rd company behind to defend, unfortunately thats the entire iron warriors legion they had to fight to do that so the outcome isnt very close.

>>96145450
You're dealing with 4 rebellious legions and you can't even contact any of your strongest ones. You're forced to work with what you have.

>>96145462

...you aren't getting it. I'm not saying to seed their dropsites with men. I'm saying SEED IT WITH FUCKING ATOMICS AND DON'T TELL THEM.

Hell, even if they HAD put 3rd Company/Chapter/Clan there and told them what could happen, even if they all then died to a man IT STILL WOULD HAVE BEEN A BETTER RESULT THAT WHAT ACTUALLY DID HAPPEN.

>>96145463
>>96145450

In fairness to Dorn, he might also have hoped that if Conrad was secretly traitor, he wouldn't do anything sandwhiched between three other supposedly loyal Legions.

Hell, I could even see him sending a secret missive to Alpha/Omega or Lorgar going "watch out for Conrad, he might not be trustworthy" and them going:

"What? I'm shocked. SHOCKED I say!"

>>96145470
Rigging your allies dropsites to explode when you're already fighting rebellious legions makes YOU look like the traitors anon. What if those legions landing to support you ARE loyalists and they find the bombs you planted in the landing zones YOU gave them.

They're gonna think you're in with the traitors and just using the battle as an excuse to purge loyalists in your ranks. Now two loyalist legions are shooting each other.

>>96145455
>There had to be some kind of contingency plan in place for more treachery
Do you mean on a systemic or case specific basis? Because the imperium at large was not prepared for this level of treachery, there were measures in place for individual legions going rogue but there wasnt anything designed for this scale of fubar because no one expected it was even possible

>Seeding their dropsites with Nukes would have worked. Setting their dropsites to be easily defendable against would have been another.
Placing nuclear landmines in your dropsites in case you need to blow them up? Because if youre worried enough about unknown enemies to do THAT then frankly you are also worried enough to understand that this move is incredibly likely to backfire (and would take time, time you dont have).

>making your dropsites in such a way that you, as an army beyond them, could easily defend against them
The issue with THAT is that it also means that the enemy you do know about (horus and co) can easily defend against the dropsites. So even if you could create your landing in such a way that you as an army outside them would be safe in case an enemy seized them (and the enemy never bothered to simply find a better position in that case) the situation would simply be worse anyways. Hell, if you sabotage your own assault enough in fear of further betrayal horus doesent even need to have the other legions reveal their true colors yet, your initial 3 legion forces just get mauled the old fashioned way.

>>96145490

Then don't tell them about it, and if they find them, act surprised and pretend it must have been Horus. I mean... he does have form with that sort of thing in this System.

>>96145475
Bro stabbed him in the face directly while Fulgrim was a few rooms over and then slaughtered all of Dorn's honour guard.

That's about as "I don't care who's here, I'm causing trouble" as it gets.

Also, Lorgar absolutely couldn't wrangle Curze if he went rogue, not even close.

>>96145494
>The issue with THAT is that it also means that the enemy you do know about (horus and co) can easily defend against the dropsites. So even if you could create your landing in such a way that you as an army outside them would be safe in case an enemy seized them (and the enemy never bothered to simply find a better position in that case) the situation would simply be worse anyways. Hell, if you sabotage your own assault enough in fear of further betrayal horus doesent even need to have the other legions reveal their true colors yet, your initial 3 legion forces just get mauled the old fashioned way.

They DID get mauled in the old fashioned way. Because they let Ferrus fucking write battleplan. The idea that even their reinforcements would get shattered as well in the process would probably have APPEALED to him had he thought of it.

>>96145457
That makes them better but still not useful at all to stop objective rush, which you don't even need to do. In 2 out of 3 missions the opponent doesn't even need to move if he doesn't want to
If anything taratulas sound a lot more useful to deal with units deep striking in your backfield than placed in the middle of the board

>>96145210

>>96145498
>You're telling me Horus knew in advance exactly where we were going to land, directly on the grid co-ordinates YOU gave me?

Definitely gonna go down well with Pert and Lorgar that, not like those two don't already have a gigantic chip on their shoulders.

Loyalist Alpharius would see right through the deception but probably just congratulate you on your caution and loyalist Curze would probably just think its funny. So you'd only piss off half the legions I guess.

>>96145457
>unit you subtract the expendable value from the result.
To a minimum of one.

They still give VP, just less VP. But VP is still VP.

>>96145368
Then don't come to the shut eating thread where people who eat shit discuss eating shit and say "boy I've never eaten shit and it looks like I'm not going to eat shit"
Your opinion doesn't matter, no one cares

>>96145210
Seekers I finished(?) building yesterday. Not sure if I should go add more gribblies to them, go looking for hands to chop off and stuff.

>>96145514
You coukd just deploy Tarantulas as literal roadblocks like anti tank spikes since rhinos cannot move through them and tank shock is nerfed now, they're cheap, expendable and an annoying pain in the ass.

Also what happens to a unit in 3.0 when their transport is destroyed?

>>96145540
If the opponent wants to only score 1 point on first blood hes welcome to do so, no point deploying Tarantulas on objectives anyway since they can't hold them.

Also turns out Tarantulas do just stop tanks in their tracks because they are vehicles now, vehicles cannot move through other vehicles.

>>96145588
If the opponent can score first blood another way they will for more points, if they cant its just a free VP you gave the,.

>>96145553
>Also what happens to a unit in 3.0 when their transport is destroyed?
You make an emergency disembarcation, which is basically disembarking in base contact with the vehicle and not moving afterwards. Then you do a cool check to see if you get pinned

Ha!

>>96145588
>Also turns out Tarantulas do just stop tanks in their tracks because they are vehicles now, vehicles cannot move through other vehicles.
They have to deploy 9" away from any enemy models. They can probably roadblock in some maps but they'd need to be narrow streets

>>96145629
Waiting for the new 3.0 Kroot, no, Tarantula Conga Line as a counter to Rhino Rush

>>96145636
Yes but there's like 1 mission where rushing the midfield actually matters

>>96145636
God this edition is so retarded

>>96145454
even reddit was calling the guy who posted this disingenuous

>>96145323
What I see in front of me is a tranny-obsessed lunatic. You should work on your own innate maleness, because wanting to choke on girldick is not giving male.

>>96145455
I miss when Ferrus' entire character and behaviour wasn't written by retards as retarded so they could justify their shitty retcon of the 40K Iron Hands to hate their daddy. In the classic telling Ferrus' plan is perfectly sound - cut off the head and the snake will die - the other Primarchs agree to it, and then they pussy out and flee like cowards right in the middle of the attack because they catch fee-fees that too many of their "sons" are dying, despite the fact it was obviously a Forlorn Hope assault from the outset, justified by the fact that Horus is the only one capable of holding the Traitors together as a unified force so removing him would cause the remaining Traitors - however many there were or ended up being - to fracture and become easy prey for the remaining Loyalists. IE, Ferrus was totally fucking right and his plan only failed because Nigmarch and Emo Lad were spiritual women who put the lives of their war-golem "children" above the cause they were literally created to serve - only Ferrus was willing to make the necessary sacrifice.

Now he gets painted as chucking a raging melty and charging in with no plan because GW are hackfrauds, and slopsoomers just lap it up.

>>96145613
>You make an emergency disembarcation, which is basically disembarking in base contact with the vehicle and not moving afterwards. Then you do a cool check to see if you get pinned

So the Rhino gets its move, the Lascannon Tarantulas fire, if the Rhino dies then the guys inside disembark in base contact with the Rhino and have to test for pinning?

So at minimum the troops inside lose one movement phase and potentially lose more than that if they do get pinned? That seems pretty worth.

>>96145608
I got full VP if I blow up a Rhino since theres nothing I can see on the datasheet that precludes a Tarantula scoring First Blood, might be something on reactions but I don't have those rules on me right now.

If they kill the sentries afterwards thats not free VP, its a transaction where I still benefit.

>>96145439
If you lived in Canada you would be able to get the meds you're not taking for free.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/p6uo0yz6/warcom-team-paints-saturnine-the-loyalist-legions/

>>96145686
Ferrus barely has any characterization, he dies in book 5 which he is introduced in then the rest we get is him appearing in short stories and lore snippets

>>96145691
wtf is that shit

>>96145691
>>96145695

all those edge highlights are total ass

>>96145695
Was this done by a dip boomer

>>96145687
You only score first blood on your turn. Tarantulas, that fire on the enemy turn, cant score it.

Tarantulas are also bad at killing rhinoes.
A tarantula with missiles does 3*2/3*1/6*2 or 0.66... HP to a rhino. It takes 8 tarantulas firing their missiles to kill one.
Twin lascannon tarnatulas do better, but its still only 2*2/3*2/3*2 or 1.8 HP per turret, meaning it will take three to kill one rhino.

>>96145691
Fuck thats pretty

>>96145695
did anyone mention to him there were transfers in that box ?

>>96145713
paint job yes, model no

>>96145695
>the strand of hair on his right leg.
sally bros, why must we suffer so?

>>96145695
SOVL
No, it seriously is. Its clearly someone who cares, you can tell they spent a lot of time and effort on that model despite the fact its clearly amateurish

>>96145718
glad you clarified your bitterness. should tattoo hazard stripes on your face.

>>96145687
>I got full VP if I blow up a Rhino since theres nothing I can see on the datasheet that precludes a Tarantula scoring First Blood, might be something on reactions but I don't have those rules on me right now.

Nevermind, just checked mission pack, you can only score first strike on YOUR turn as the active player, since Tarantulas only shoot on the enemy turn they cannot score first strike. They can score giant killer or slay the warlord but are unlikely to ever manage that.

So deploying Tarantulas like this WOULD give your enemy one VP, if they die denying movement that could have scored more VP then its still a positive strade but its not a complete no trainer to deploy them in front like this.

That said Tarantulas do have other uses than just blowing up Rhinos To strand tacticals turn 1 so if the mission doesn't make thst trick valuables you can still use them to protect from aircraft or deepstrikes which is canonically how these things are used anyway so thats cool.

>>96145695
that undrilled barrel

>>96145695
>>96145701
Post models

>>96145660
Yea cuz you couldn't do that before

>>96145687
If you are gonna put them that close I think the melta option might be better.
Still relaying on the enemy actually moving tho

>>96145737
Yea, they do have use. But remember they shoot AFTER the enemy moves, so if they move out of LOS you cant shoot them any more. On planet bowling ball they can take their pick of targets, but in a more populated battlefield they will suffer from having to be very opportunistic.

>>96145691
Remember when RG had their own pattern instead of fucking feathers?

Any thoughts on the single slot for dreadnoughts making it less worthwhile to take 1 boxnought vs 1 saturnine?

>>96145742
here, shut up and fuck off

>>96145771
Anon you shouldnt be throwing stones at the guy.

>>96145760
We haven't even seen the boxnought entry

>>96145779
at least I don't do edge highlights

>>96145760
Sure, it makes single elites more "slot optimal" (assuming boxnoughts dont get a talon like rule), but slots are honestly not that limited. Taking a saturnine dread might be the right move, it might not. Its a very expensive very slow walker with weapons designed for a very specific kind of target.

>>96145707
I dont see the point in rocket Tarantulas currently, people are hyping them up to death but lascannons are 5 points more expensive and seem like a no brainer.

I'd be bringing 2 units of 2 lascannon Tarantulas so I'd have 4 on hand for 170 points. Good thing about Tarantulas is that their reactions are resolved on an individual basis, they shoot one after another so you're unlikely to waste any shooting. If you get lucky and pop a Rhino with only 2 Tarantulas you dont need to waste the third or 4th.

Melta arrays would probably do work too but only if your enemy is stupid enough to willingly move into melta range. The Frag missiles are certainly bad but something about Barrage 3 is calling me.

>>96145787

>>96145787
>at least I don't do edge highlights
What a strange thing to brag about.

>>96145792
Rockits are really good for killing 2W 3+ sv marines for which there's going to be a bunch, presumably, since jumppack vets are looking nice
But yea, the las cannons are also good. They are not that much worse against 3+sv and are a lot better against 2+

>>96145800
play 40k

>>96145819
>said the man painting like hes running 2003 era ultramarines

>>96145752
There's definitely counterplay to the strat outlined but I don't consider that a bad thing honestly. Might have to pick up 2 boxes of Tarantulas for the new edition, I've always liked the look of them but they never seemed worth in the old FOC.

Honestly the new FOC is the only part of 3.0 I'd consider a direct improvement over 2.0. The more I use it the more I appreciate it.

>>96145779
>>96145800
>>96145806
>>96145825
post models

>>96145836
Look out anon, the edge highlights are coming to get 'ya!

>>96145849
Ok those are some pretty gross edge highlights though.

>>96145849
I've never understood why people highlight the BOTTOM of the feet, edge highlights are just a way of enhancing natural lighting yo better defined details, surely you'd want them darker?

>>96145780
It's more that e.g. you have a 100pt officer for each dreadnought you have to take. Boxnought is 100, saturnine is 200. Both dreads take up the same slot, but the officer tax is a bigger proportion if you assign a boxnought. So why take the boxnought if it can't go in talons?

>>96145695
>actual joker scheme
based

>>96145872
You dont take dreadnoughts in war machine detachments you silly bitch, you take them as logistical benefits from prime slots.

>>96145819
anon those are edge highlighted...

>>96145872
Precisely because it's fewer points. You don't need to maximize your return on slots. You don't get bonus VP for efficiency.

>>96145826
Oh, I dont think its bad either. I think its great that a unit as historically overlooked as tarantulas has legitimate use and can be brought without feeling bad.
Its even quite fluffy with how it works imo, automated defense turrets arent there to kill the enemy army, but act as a delaying measure, harassing them on the approach and forcing them to slow down while you seize the initiative created in the chaos.

The tarantula probably wont kill in a pts effective manner, especially vs an enemy that takes their time, but they can either deal annoying damage as they are ignored or delay the enemy from taking objectives while they are forced to remain still and take them out in the shooting phase.

>>96145836
Sure.

>>96145730
Yeah. Crying about those sallies is the most sizequeen shit I've ever seen. They're probably better than anything the complainers have ever painted and most of what they've played against in their rural pit communities.

>>96145771
> no highlights are better than bad highlights 5head

>>96145691
>Leaning the saturnine forward and it looks like their guns are weighing them down like a kid trying to carry a bucket
these things are gonna be so finicky to build.

>>96145872
A 80p centurion already gets you 2 and that's not counting any logistical slots
That's still not a reason to take saturnine one. Slots were restricted last edition too and barely anyone took leviathans

>>96145935
And does anyone else thing this looks weird? Like it's more of an action figure than a painted model.

>>96145694
I know this is shocking for you to hear, but the story was already written before the beanie-wearing, dangerhaired, wife's-son-having faglords you worship got within ten miles of it. It wasn't explained in explicit, exhausting, 60-book-long series levels of detail, but we knew what happened and we knew why because they simply asserted the important bits in the information we did have. If anything the lack of subsequent fanwanking they did for Ferrus & the IH relative to other Primarchs and Legions only further proves that they had no fucking idea what they were doing with them, choosing to quickly retcon their part in things, their mentality, their temperament to crudely justify their 40K sloppa before shoving them into a corner and trying to forget they existed.

>>96145695
>The Saturnine Terminators were incredible to build. The details and potential posing options on these are great.
>Two STANCED, one slow-walking, all holding their arms rigid by their sides aimed directly forward
So pic unrelated then?

>>96145953
Its the yellow weathering, he bungled it and made the whole model look like the plastic toy it actually is.

>>96145971
Weve seen them posed more dramatically elsewhere, so yea, evidently he just chose to go for very "normal" poses

>>96145686
>my headcanon conflicts too much with reality.

>>96145686
>t.ferrus, upset his failed suicide charge failed

>>96145972
I think it's more the dirt and oil on the metal parts, just by itself it looks really flat and dull like it just came out of a package.
It's actually pretty impressive to have it consistent over the whole model though it's not bad.

>>96145760
Saturnine dreadnoughts just don't look that good.
The inversion beamer is nice and all but it is stupidly expensive

>>96145470
>I'm saying SEED IT WITH FUCKING ATOMICS AND DON'T TELL THEM.
If you're this paranoid about your allies then just call off the attack. That's the only thing that could have ultimately saved them. All this autistic bullshit about contingency plans is retarded.

>>96145957
Because the guy known for dying right at the start of the Heresy had more characterization before the BL novels? What's your point retard

>>96146059
>we cant trust anyone, everyone is compromised and a potential traitor
>time to put big bombs beneath our planetary foothold, sure hope the traitors (who are everywhere) dont learn about this and explode us with them

>>96145686
Feruss' plan is "sound" in the current telling too. It just fails, the spearhead assault stalls and ferrus dies like a chump. It was a decent plan and it didnt work, and when the remaining loyalists went to regroup for round 2 they got massacred by their reinforcements.

>>96146071
He doesn't have a point, he's just pissed off the Iron Hands have generational trauma to "justify" them being psychotic in 40k instead of them just being built thst way.

>>96145665
You mean the same reddit that didn't even read what the guy said about it was more so this expensive for all the rules to just be invalidated in 3 years? How he explicitly said he didn't expect everyone to be all of them, but just the sheer number of planned books in a 3 year period.

>>96146149
Better hope your army isn't the last one to get it's book.
Enjoy getting to use them for 3 months before the edition change. :)

>be Vulkan
>drop onto Isstvaan V
>far enough from the traitors that only their heavy artillery is firing, and we're doing jack shit in return
>order my vaguard to furiously start surreptitious digging so we can hide some atomics under our own landing sites
>Alpharius waits for us to be 50% done and sends the detonation codes
>

>>96145771
Comfy vibes somehow. I like them.

>>96146182
Theyre definetly very "homely", remind me of the sort of stuff you would see on dakkadakka or whatever.

>>96144783
Honestly we shit on GW a lot but the titan legio color schemes are just sick.

>>96146213
Looking forward to a plastic 28mm Warhound and Reaver to make em the classic Ignatum and Astorum schemes.

Moist Puddles

What is the Spartan pintle weapon of choice?

>>96146388
Havoc launcher for some minor CC?

XIXbros, how does this look?

>>96146388
Melta. Melta is the new Lascannon HSS of 3.0

Everyone is making a fuss about wargear and legacy. The real issue is that the terrain rules are completely and utterly retarded.

>>96145691
Torso stripe doesn't really work with the head, I'd have done one or the other.

>>96146464
Anon both things are a big deal but people are more upset about their wargear and and HQ choices being fucked becuase they put a lot more time into those things then terrain. I can make above average looking terrain for an entire board in an after noon and a drying over night, I put a lot more effort into a single model then that

>>96146388
Havoc launcher seems like the most optimal thing on transports. Stunning the target of whatever is coming out of them seems really good even if the chances are not amazing

>>96146442
Yeah that's a good colour scheme for traitor RG.

>>96145849
Those are a bit over-highlighted

>>96146482
I second that

>>96146463
It REALLY isnt. Multi meltas are short range (for a heavy weapon) and bad at actually harming tanks outside of melta range/unless you stand still.

S8 without armorbane has a 1/6 chance to harm Av13. 1/6. Your melta range is 8", is your tank going to be within 8" of the enemy? Unlikely. You dont have twin linked, so its not reliable at only one shot, so you cant just plink models off either.

Melta is a specialist weapon class that is good at only a few things, namely killing vehicles very dead when you get within melta range. Mixing melta into a more general loadout is (generally) not a very good idea.

>>96146463
Not even close. Melta is extremely short range. Lascannons could sit in the back of your deployment zone and nuke anything on the board, LOS was the only limiting factor.

>>96146498
Str 8 AP 2 even without armourbane is still gonna fuck up non-vehicles though. and D3 is still gonna shred most non-characters. Metlas run into the same issue as Lascannons last edition - they're sort of the everything killer. and if they're slightly less efficient that some other things at the one role they're supposed to excel at, that's not better.

>>96146475
>even if the chances are not amazing
about 60% chance on a normal Cool 7 unit, it's not bad either

>>96146498
The thing that made Lascannon HSS lascannon HSS was that they were a one size fits all solution for basically everything, no matter the target they were basically the most optimal loadout for killing it. Tanks, dreads, elite infantry, lascannons did it all, and they did it at a very long range which meant that positioning wasnt a big concern.
Melta has none of that, melta weapons are shorter range, far less reliable at range and far more limited in who can take them, theyre not what you park on a building in your deployment zone and just kill whatever presents itself.

In the current edition there dont seem to be many squads like that. Lascannon HSS are still all rounders but they got more expensive and are now worse at killing tanks, significantly worse, meaning you dont want to have them as your only AT. Volkite has been toned down. There is no more "one size fits all" solution for firepower.

>>96146071
>>96146129
>the guy known for dying right at the start of the Heresy
>Horus Heresy: The Lorelets Revealed
Ferrus didn't die, he went missing. Sure, the reader was meant to *infer* he was dead and ten thousand years of mythmaking had coped him into an immortal legend, with the same being true for Vulkan, but the explicit text was Ferrus & Vulkan vanished - the former trying to achieve his goal, the latter trying to save his "sons" - and Corax ran away ostensibly also to save his "sons". The issue with nuHeresy isn't that the Iron Hands have "generational trauma"(lol, enjoy your Gender Studies class at college did you), it's that they went from being certified badasses who turned their hatred - of traitors, of cowards, of themselves - into stoic radical pragmatists, the cold blue plasma torch to the Black Tempars' raging bonfire, and dedicated themselves to right what they saw as *their* failure to support Ferrus's utterly justified and perfectly tactically sound plan so they could have their technodaddy back in the End Times.

But Matt Ward was a retard who accidentally put "Iron Hands Chapter Master Stronos" into C:SM 5th edition and that plus BL's decision to explicitly kill Ferrus for "emotional impact" kicked off a chain of ever more retarded retcons that left 30K IH as old 40K IH and nu40K IH as cucked little bitches, the only chapter in the setting to hate their own spacedaddy, their character completely scrubbed away because the spiritual women who write for BL are incapable of grasping the difference between *feeling* an emotion and *expressing* it immediately and with maximum whinging, and so replaced stoic pragmatism fuelled by internal fury with BEEP BOOP WE ARE ROBO-VULCANS WITH NO EE-MO-SHUNS SAVE US KARDAN MECHAJESUS TEACH US TO FEEEEEEL.

Anyone who unironically prefers what we have to what we had without question has a sub-50 IQ.

>>96146545
didn't read

>>96146522
Oh sure, S8 Ap2 D3 will still hurt whatever it hits, but its about cost effectiveness.
At S8 and 24" you are also rather limited in what you can hurt in both senses, you dont have the range to always pick good targets and you have multiple targets you just wont be very good into.

>>96146522
Melta doesn't have the volume of shots nor the cheap cost to deal with larger numbers of infantry. Not to mention that once your melta weapons are in range to shoot terminators, you better kill all of them in one go because next turn those terminators will charge. Same goes for a lot of transports, if the vehicle is close enough for you to be in melta range chances are the cargo already is close enough to start doing their thing.
Lascannons had the entire board length to whittle down the terminators before those got danger close.

>>96146545
lt;dr Wraight saved 40k Iron Hands

>>96146545
>IH
>Hate ferrus
Are you fucking retarded. Their entire arc and fall is about how they try and cope with their perfect space dad failing to live up to his own standards (as they understood them) and dying a miserable failure. Its entirely reliant on them loving ferrus.

>>96146528
>>96146522
>>96146498

wait, the question was, which pintle weapon to use on a Spartan. The thing is packed with lascannons, and I am not certain about the use case of the pintle options:
The heavy flamer is short ranged and toasts something that the troops inside should be able to mop up and considering Cataphractii are slow doesn't seem to harmonize with a flamer (same reason I don't equip one to the squad).
The multi melta could support in opening a vehicle that the las weapons failed to do (because fuck dice), but on the other hand a heavy bolter might be useful to delete some marines en passant - puts out a couple of shots over decent range.

>>96146591
Panic/Rout (the status) do not move units immediately. That move comes at the start of the enemy turn. A unit that gets panicked by a flamer will stay where they are to be charged.

>>96146591
You want a havoc launcher. If it's a spartan it's probably going to have a melee unit inside and stunning the enemy is a lot more useful than maybe killing 1 of the enemy
Even if you are not shooting at the target of the charge, the havoc launcher is 48". Units with statuses can't hold objectives, court as stationary or do reactions in this case. It's a really good weapon to have for 5p.
The spartan already can make 6 las canons shots, it doesn't need a multimelta or HB to go with that

>>96146545
>it's that they went from being certified badasses who turned their hatred - of traitors, of cowards, of themselves - into stoic radical pragmatists
lmao

No one in the imperium is a "stoic radical pragmatist", its just different flavors of raging mentals. The black templars and iron hands are both pathetic nutcases, not cool badasses doing the reasonable things with different levels of fervor.
The iron hands are a group of strength-worshipping failures, driven by their shame and guilt to desperately try and remove the very human elements that give them these motivations. Turning themselves into monsters to cope with the contradictions that created them.

>>96146563
>10'' movement
>deep strike

Anons, hear me out:

Demolisher cannons.

>Strength 12 so will pen AV 14 on a 3+
>24" range, enough to threaten anything in no mans land
>Blast, almost impossible to miss large targets like vehicles in the new rules
>3 damage, Ordnance (D) so 6 damage when stationary
>One vindicator with demolisher is only 140 points
>Two vindicators combined to up to 12 damage, enough to one-shot a spartan whilst still being cheaper in points
It might be time for the humble vindicator to shine once more

>>96146722
Quick rundown on how they changed blast rules?

>>96146743
Roll to hit like with regular weapons, 1D6 scatter if you miss.

>>96146743
Place marker, roll to hit once, always scatter 1d6 of fail. Final placement is number of hits

>>96146743
You place the blast and roll to hit on what is covered using normal BS, no scatter
If you miss all shots then it scatters 1d6 and auto hits whatever it lands on

>>96146722
vindicators do look pretty fun

>>96146743
This is the only one that correctly summarizes >>96146763.

>>96143003
I'm picking up one last box of mk4s so I have room to grow my old armies just in case (autistic about stylematching stunties w/ stunties).

also is that knight shopping for livestock

Where are all the knight and auxillia leaks ? People be slacking

>>96142375 (OP)
>See the Saturn box set dread and turret built in local GW

The fucking dread and turret are HUGE like holy fuck the turret is basically the size of a land raider kek

>>96146834
Fewer shills got the auxilia and knight books so its easier for GW assassins to track down leakers.

>>96146834
npc factions

>>96146834
Some were last thread
>you have 4 knights core
>each knight unlocks a detachment that can give you either: armigers; more knights; robutts; aux/militia
>your allegiance (imperial vassal, mechanicum vassal, ??? vassal) gets you a free auxiliary detachment

>>96146845
The Mechanicum are literally a legion of mindless robots and they got leaked.

>>96146834
Ah shit. Someone leaked em yesterday. Not much has changed desu. The auxiliary detachments depend on your big knights in your main force. Armigers are now in an aux detachment. From looking at the sheets, generally all the knights have stayed the same in terms of effectiveness with each other (ie Atrapos still good)

>>96144936
Nice space Roman femboys.

Kinda weird that there hasn't been any custodes player outrage at not getting a liber at launch. So everybody did stop playing them because of femstodes it seems.

>>96146877
Well they were also the best way to not get anyone to play with you. They absolutely shred anything.

>>96146886
Only in melee. A proper mechanicum army would just blow custodes off the table before they even got halfway across the board.

>>96146877
they get it as a free pdf on release of 3.0

>>96146877
means we've successfully bullied the custodesfags out of 30k, this is cause for celebration.

>>96146891
That's just 2.0 imbalance. Lascannon HSS spam, myrmidon spam etc.

>>96146877
Yea I'd be fucking outraged if my rules were a free digital download instead of having to buy a physical book full of erratas

>>96145716
Even the worst freehand is 1,000,000x better than the best transfer

How many deathwing companions do I run? how many inner circle knights?

>>96146913
they just wait for plastic Custodes

>>96146856
An archmagos is probably the most player character unit of any unit in the game.

>>96146973
All of them.

Are the heresy black books available to buy anywhere? Or is it an impossible task

>>96146973
From 0-10 I guess. I also try to figure out their battlefield role. Harrassing Tacticals in close combat is a bit useless when you have artillery instead.

>>96146975
>Female coded spear
Who else is ready for femstodes

Anyone has the full Drop Pod rules? Can I charge after disembarking from one?

>>96146932
Hey, they don't even get Errata'd.
There's still a technical bug in the Militia PDF that means Third Line applies to every Militia model, not just the Third-line vehicles.

>>96146999
Can occasionally find them being sold on ebay, but be prepared to put down an incredibly high sum of money.

>>96147008
>Female coded
Not saying you're wrong, but it's also just pulling from nu-phobos and nu-ultima, so it's no more so than the new armour marks.

I want to run bolter rapiers with my imperial fists but I would like to have them look like a gun emplacement setup on a tripod with some sandbags or dirt or something in front of them. Are there any good bits that could work as a base for this conversion?
I just really like the idea of two groups of two suppressing machine guns firing to cover the advance of my tacticals, and I would prefer them to look more like traditional heavy machine guns

>>96147023
That was 2.0 though. There are issues in the main rulebook that never got an errata. That edition was abandoned by GW before it even was released, the team was already working on 3.0 at that point.

>>96147024
Fuck why do GW do this? The books look fantastic, where would one find the PDF’s?

>>96147038
The usual way is using greenstuff. Just cut out some little pillows and press some fabric onto them for texture.

>>96147008
valdor's model is clearly female

>>96147058
Valdor's model is peak drag queen.

>>96147053
on some downunder file hosting, called giga or so - no idea, internet is new to me

Maybe I'm stupid but I can't wrap my head around Primary and Apex Detachments. I mean, I get them, but not their interaction. You can take one Apex Detachment for each High Command slot, and you can take any number of Apex Detachments. But, you only get one High Command slot in a Primary Detachment, and can only have one Primary Detachment. So, you can only have one Apex Detachment? I thought maybe there would be a Command Auxiliary Detachment or something, and there is, but that has no High Command slots.

Either I'm missing something or I'm stupid.

>>96147044
3.0 isn't going to be better. 2.0 is your preview, expect it to get worse from here.

>>96146987
>Deathwing Conclaves are among the most potent fighting divisions within the 1ˢᵗ Legion, for while small, some of the deadliest and most experienced fighters in the Imperium can be found among their number.
I'm reminded of that one time the Justaerin got absolutely cumpstered and dumpstered by a few dozen DW dudes. That was funny.

Is it just me or are aquitors really, really good now?

>>96147089
>So, you can only have one Apex Detachment?
This is how it works with the core detachments, but there may be armies that have a different looking primary detachment

>>96147089
No, you're not missing anything, apex detachments are intentionally max 1, and only if you take a high Command. They're supposed to be rare.

>>96146987
>So many people have no idea how broken DWC Terminators are possibly going to be.
Bros if you are a DA player, you better hope you have 10 IKC and 10 DWC in terminator armor ready to go.
Regular DWC gained Eternal warrior
If DWC Terminators also have eternal warrior they are going to be fucking stupid.

>>96145380
If you use the missiles against infantry (they're AP3), then you won't mind they are S7 instead of S9, now that ID is gone. It's just more shots at 1/4 the price.
Conditional targeting...but it doesn't matter: it is 1/4 of the price

>>96147069
GWs media team said the first of the 10 thousand was female

>>96146999
You want the physical books or the contents? Just grabbed em off a dropbox today myself.

>>96146999
If you want the actual books in hands you can find them on Ebay, but you best fucking be ready to sacrifice your wallet as your probably gonna pay several hundred dollars per book. if not more.

You are better off finding a PDF copy of it, then finding a printing company to print you off a leather bound hard cover book of it if you really want something to hold.

>>96147101
The grav artillery looks really fucking good.
Pinning (3) is brutal
Panic (3) Bombard shell is also brutal

>>96147089
Retinues and Veterans slots can also be gotten through Logistical benefits, especially ones found in Legion-Specific detachments.
Extra Command cannot; that's only available from that one Apex detachment

>>96147101
It's just you. Im not a Night Lord who wants to scare people. I'd rather just kill them instead

>>96147109
I get that they're rare, but the rulebook does say you can take any number of Apex Detachments as long as they correspond to High Command slots filled. It's just really oddly worded, maybe? The entirety of the rules are written to be as verbose as possible, it seems. As others have pointed out, of course. Looking at the leaks didn't match the actual overwhelming amount of words in the physical book somehow. On B&C they compared them to legal documents, and I can agree with that.

Also, they're not "max 1" in theory since it does say the amount relies on High Command slots (yes, only one) so it's just hmm. >>96147103 may be right and we'll see the other Primary Detachments.

Also, Auxilia leaked? Unless I'm blind I'm not seeing it in the OP links.

>>96146382
Noice

>>96147101
Not interested until GW releases a plastic arquitor model. Not gonna pay through the nose for a resin brick.

>>96147196
>Also, Auxilia leaked?
No, we just got a lot of info on them from the spruesandbrews(?) reviews

>>96146618
>"Seasoned readers will have noticed a Routed unit would fall back twice: once during their turn, and another during the enemy's turn"
>"This is intentional. We don't want units ping ponging in and out combat"

Guys i finished my tonk

>>96147260
More tonk

>>96147260
>>96147272
That tonk is as cool as it is big :O

>>96147260
>>96147272
It looks great.
For the Lion!

>>96147260
NIce paintjob
The square doors look so much better than the new ones...

>>96147281
Agree i dont like the round ones much myself either.

>>96147111
They probably need to be, considering they cost twice as much as a regular terminator

>>96147260
looks great. Where have I seen that angel bit on the doors...?

>>96147272
That's one happy demolisher cannon

>>96147313
Its gonna be nuts if they are on par with IKC. I mean think about it, how fucking annoying would it be to have to deal with 2 Heralds taking 5 man DWC Terminator squads then just going onto an objective with the biggest middle finger of fuck you.

>>96146855
>your allegiance (imperial vassal, mechanicum vassal, ??? vassal)
Mendicant is the third option they listed, it's the 30k equivalent of freeblades

>>96147323
Its from uhhhhhhh the dark angels ravenwing upgrade sprue

>the only store in my country that didn't have Saturnine in stock during the preorder day is the one with the lowest price
>put myself on a notification list for when the item is in stock again
>it happens just days after the preorders start
>check the site, sold out, few days pass I get the email again but don't bother to place an order
Fast forward to today, and they have FIVE boxes in stock for pre-order.
We've reached levels of over we've never seen before.

>>96147018
Someone is definitely going to argue with me on this but I think you can charge
Technically the unit didn't deep strike, the drop pod did
The unit arrives on the table through disembarking from a transport and can therefore charge
Same as you can disembark from a dreadclaw and kharibdys and charge
You'll be disordered tho so pick your targets very carefully or it'll bite you in the ass

At least that's my understanding of it, I only read the book once so far

Any chance the assassins are in the talons of the emperor pdf?

where are the fucking assassins reeee

First half of my most recent Terminator squad

>>96146714
Yup, thallax are good. Drop melta is also good. Or a melta TSS in a rhino.

But those arent just "melta in general", theyre melta reliant on a specific delivery system, and even then probably not going to be an all rounder. Melta thallax are more likely than not going to be heavy infantry/dread hunters, melta TSS being dropped in are going to be an assassination squad for heavy infantry or a tank with rear armor >14

>>96147244
Anon that is specifically "as a result of routing in combat", routed, as applied by panic(X) or 25% losses does not cause that result to happen.

>>96147260
>Imperialis Carnifex
Man, Carnifexes got a real downgrade when they became Tyranid units.

>custom ruleset is about a week out from printing
funny how it lined up with Saturnine, already got 12 copies booked for a slow grow league at the LGS. Be the change you want to see anons!

>>96147401
Tyranids are cursed.

>>96147326
Why take heralds in 3.0? Is the extra victory points for winning a combat? Do they still give line?

>>96147120
>>96147140

Thanks chaps… now where would one go to… locate these PDFs hypothetically

>>96147417
Im just assuming that its gonna do something like line, but if not, shit just run 5 man DWC Terminator squads following a bio librarian.

>>96147417
Extra VP and fear. They also give +1 to combat res (I think)

Currently painting up some DG for a friend. Looking for inspiration while I do so.
Sell me on Death Guard anons. Tell me how their legion differs from others, cool things about them, etc

>>96147429
Think fast chuckelnuts!

>>96147417
Think of heralds as upping the value of Vanguard by 1, and can score extra VP of you manage to find a weak character for him to challenge (like if your champion lost but the guy he was fighting has 1 wound left)
The unit that fills the role of the old herald is the master of signals

>>96147260
>>96147272
Fuck off with you’re amazing model anon you put us to shame, well done.

>>96147456
>eternal warrior.

>>96147466
Anon whats 3-1?

>Two dudes in a HSS carrying Lascannons is 70 points (10 per dude and 25 per Lacannon)
>Two Infiltrating AV10 Tarantulas with 4 Lascannons is 85 points
y tho

>>96147461
Let me tell you how much i fucking hate painting checker patterns, a lot, and you know what i keep doing anyway? Checker patterns.

>>96147474
The lascannon HSS can pick what it fires at.

>>96147470
DWC are 2 wounds
Terminator armor gives the wearer +1 wound
Therefore DWC terminators are 3 wounds

At least that's what I assume his line of thought is

>>96147474
hss suck in 3.0

>>96147456
You are aware about terminators having an invulnerable save, yes?

>>96147494
But the +1wound is only for characters? Cenobium are 2w, as are basically all normal terminators.

>>96147470
Less than three wounds. If regular DWC have 2, then DWC terminators should be 3. Of course GW might surprise us and give them 2. Or 4. We'll find out in a week.

>>96147442
They have some of the best looking terminators, the Grave Wardens. They are armed wiith all sorts of nasty weapons, like inbuilt toxic gass despensers, alchem-heavy flamers and grenade launcher that fire normal krak grenades but also grenades that explode in a cloud of toxic and corrosive gass.
They are the elite war crimes unite of the Death Guard, and considered extreme even by their standards

>>96147519
>If regular DWC have 2, then DWC terminators should be 3
>if praetorian command squads have 2w then terminator command squads should have 3!

>>96147429
So I've got a bunch of companion models and knight models, I'm trying to figure out the best way to run them. A little torn on the list building. Should I be going with MSU in land raiders or a big block of 10 in a spartan? How about 10 companions without Terminator armor in a raider?

>>96147519
>DWC terminators should be 3
are there even any (non-hq, non-saturnine) termies that have 3 wounds base? is there precedent for making dangels' termies have 3 wounds?

>>96147531
Hell yeah

>>96147552
Dangers got special boy treatment in 2.0?

>>96147552
Deathshroud iirc.

>>96147566
Nope, 2w (in 3.0). Theyre 2w eternal warrior(1), same as red butchers (and DWC)

>>96147566
Had in 2.0. Now they're 2W with EW(1)

>>96147581
>>96147574
well....i stand corrected, thank you anons.

>>96147589
No worries. They were 3 in 2nd ed so its an easy mistake. Theyre less durable now, but also much more affordable, which probably results in a much better unit given their damage output wasnt exactly stellar.

>>96147531
Good shit. I need to paint some of them too.
What makes Death Guard stubbornness different from Iron Warrior stubbornness? How are the two legions different in their methods of war? (Aside from chemical warfare)

>>96147609
DG are stubborn because they dont care, and grim resolve keeps them moving forwards. Think of them like oilfield workers or construction dudes that wake up at dawn to grind and just get shit done.

IW "stubbornness" comes from them being colossal whiny retards incapable of actually getting anything done without demanding headpats from daddy and unlimited pussy. Think of them like your local IW player.

>like big robot
>play mechanicum because robot
>new big robot
>new big robot not mechanicum!
>:(

>>96147643
>t. Mechanicuck

>>96147643
You have enough ro-booty

heres a question

say I take this AL detachment, and I logistical benefit an extra elites slot via the prime advantage
does that logistical benefit elites slot have to follow the restrictions of the detachment? or can i fill that slot with something else? (e.g lernaen terminators)

>>96147649
You won't be laughing when my evil plan comes to furition! Then you'll see, then you'll ALL see!.

>>96147663
>Elite slots in this detachment

>>96147693
hey there may be some wierd thing with how logistical benefit works, hence why im asking before attempting any bullshit

>>96147699
Nothing that allows it to ignore the restrictions of the detachment it is part of.

>>96147609

>>96147494
>>96147519
>>96147552
Dark Angel players truly believe they are entitled to 3W terminators. More full of themselves than an Emperor's Child

>>96147742
then fair enough

>>96147772
To be fair DG had 3 wounds last edition randomly so who the fuck knows.

>>96147643
What big robot?

>>96147780
Yeah after posting I saw anon being reasonable and willing to change his mind, so I realized I spoke too soon and it came out rude. Whoops sorry about that

Does anyone have the flow chart for the reading order? I just wanna follow the ironhands.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4ifv7Gxjwg

>challenge results in TH Centurion downing an IH dread in one combat using DG gambit to avoid any wounds
>tank parking lot
>cover worthless due to LoS and wound allocation
>missiles are status appliers
>By game end (four turns) both have 9 units left on field
>IH win because they stayed still on an objective in their deployment zone
very smooth Pardo

>>96147663
Logistical benefit adds a slot to the detachment it's taken for, meaning it's beholden to any rules for that detachment

>>96147808
>challenge results in TH Centurion downing an IH dread in one combat using DG gambit to avoid any wounds
Anon, the DG gambit just gives you T equal to enemy WS, which on a dreadnought is 4 (the same as a marines normal toughness). Do you mean the prime advantage? Or do you mean "passing the saves"?
>>tank parking lot
Yes, thats what happens when both players bring lots of tanks.
>>By game end (four turns)
Thats the same length as every battle report they have played for the last year+, they (and most of the other battle report channels) adopted the cthonia missions which are 4 turns.

>>96147808
Buy an ad.

>>96147609
It's not that different. More like, most DG come from a horrible death world so they are used to everything sucking so much, so it's just another day for them.
Meanwhile, the IW run the numbers and understand that the cost of total extermination is going to cost a number of your own guys.
All in all, if you don't want to die, don't let the other guys shoot you?

When were they going to release the legacies documents?

>>96147854
Sometime between the release (on the 26th) and the end of the month (the 31st).

>>96147854
Shortly after the Saturnine box release.

>Want to start a new army
>Differemt faction becomes a favorite each day
How did you pick your Legion?

>>96147099
it was like 5 cenobium vs 60 justarein and they killed them all for like 2 dead cenobium lol, then wave attacks slowly whittled the last 3

>>96147795
Its ok anon, we are all morons here but we are morons that know what we are and thats why we forgive each other.

>>96147854

What's the next cope after "Wait for the Legacies PDF"?
> Wait for the Tactica Journal
> Wait for the 6 month errata
> Wait for 4E

>>96147885
I like the color blue.

>>96147099
>>96147887
For the Lion!

>>96147894
>next cope
is 110% wait for the tactica journals.
I think a lot of the legacy things are going to be shit, and then when they update them in the journals they will get a buff to try and get people to buy them and ignore the fact that people are literally paying GW for Rule updates now.

>>96147887
>best written BL action

>>96147894
Wait for the Scouring

>>96147808
If we take their games as representative (which is a big if) then vanguard is absolutely cracked. The score was 9 to 13, vanguard units can score 4VP for winning a combat.

>>96147895
dark blue? cobalt blue? metallic blue?

>>96147808
>>missiles are status appliers
This made me irrationally angry. Meta fishing for a status resulted in a LR jerking off without moving all game. Sure he lost his repair rolls, but the fact it can happen so readily is fucking stupid. I swear if the game skews to status locking vehicles I am going to lose it.

>>96147885
Love 40k TSons egyptian aesthetic
30k gave them the same aesthetic and gave them a kick ass scheme
Easy

>>96147910
>I think a lot of the legacy things are going to be shit
Destroyers? Not very good? What is this madness!

If your big complaint with the edition/game is "some units arent very good" then frankly you are a silly person. There have always been bad units, legacy or otherwise. Although for what its worth there seem to be less dead units in 3.0 than before.

>>96147885
Well with 3.0's army building it's easier because I can build random models and chunk them into allied detachments

>>96147841
>adopted the cthonia missions which are 4 turns.
That does not make them good, Cthonia missions fucking suck ass because who ever made up randomly moving objectives needs to be shot in the knees, and 3 turn cap is gay as fuck. When a game ends with half my shit still on the board it is not very appealing.

>>96147887
Which book lol?

>>96147910
>Caring about how good units are
WAACfags really are the cancer.

>>96147946
All vehicles are dead units, since 10 autocannons glance everything to death

>>96147967
I dont care how good they are in terms of balance i care how good they are when GW will just use that as leverage to justify selling you DLC content for units we already have rules for.

I care if they purposefully gimp a unit just to buff it for a price down the road. You should do.

>>96147939
How is this any different to getting a lucky immobilize result? Its a statistically unlikely but possible outcome either way. Im not even sure what the complaint is, that a vehicle was crippled by a lucky shot? That theres something silly or gamey about this fact?

>>96147885
Thousand sons are the only magic marines even though I hate the egyptian aesthetic .

>>96147885
RG back in 5e because I liked reasonable marines who saved the little guy. Angsty teenhood, so le darkness within hit and identified with Corax. Became adult jaded with concepts of "fair play" and "being nice" and "don't do a war crime", realized Corax is a cunt. Started adding Terran XIXth units. Pottery, really.

>>96147981
>WAACfag in denial
post models.

>>96147531
I think I liked them better when Death Cloud was a flamer.
And they had natural Shrouded 6+.
And i realize they should no longer be able to force disordered charges, as Hold the Line itself has been removed and charges no longer grant extra attacks.
And the sarge can no longer take a scythe.
And they are the only unit in the game that still buys chainfists as +5 pts upgrades to a power fist instead of as free equivalents.

But they did get 25 pts cheaper, and their krak guns are now D2 :D

>>96147996
I did.
>>96147260
>>96147272

>>96147885

I like my marines to be war-engines barely shackled by emotion (that emotion is rage)
I like being able to use any Rite template
I like big stretches of open background to make my own stories
I like awesome Primarch homeworld stories
I like Primarchs who aren't stupid
I like to kitbash with tons of extra bits, custom helmets, off-Mark armour etc
I like Iron Hands

>>96147956
>People cry when their entire army is killed before the game ends
>People cry when a decent chunk of their army survives until the game ends

There really is no pleasing tabletop wargamers.

>>96147987
Its very different. Previously you were trying to kill the vehicle and you may immobilize it, but it wasn't the goal. Status fishing is decidedly trying to NOT kill the unit and finding better efficiency in just stunlocking it directly.

>>96147841
>every battle report they have played for the last year+
has been shit because of it. Bad rules don't become rules because they're a year old.

>>96147980
I invite you to test that theory out.

An autocannon shot has a 1/6 chance to glance a predator (it cant harm Av14). You need to inflict the same status twice before it does any hull points, so lets say 2 glances before you start doing HP to even it out one way or the other. Thats 18 hits before you do one(1) HP, a predator has 5. To kill a predator you would need something like 40 autocannon hits, so around 60 shots. And for there to not be any popped smoke.

Autocannons are not cheap this edition, they are priced like lascannons. If it takes you 20 autocannon HSS to kill a tank? Thats a big investment.

>>96148001
yeah... me too.

>>96148002
>Stolen valour
Good lord, it keeps getting worse.

>>96148003
>I like awesome Primarch homeworld stories
>I like Primarchs who aren't stupid
You are the cause of everything wrong with heresy. Primarchs aren't supposed to be played, they're supposed to be expensive paperweight on your shelves.

>>96147990
BAnels and Scars have lots of psykers don't they?

>>96147980
10 ACs get 3 glances on average for 300 points
I'd rather just kill the vehicle, personally

>>96147912
>>96147965
Book 9 crusade, forgive me it was 12 v 50, with 3 surviving initially

>>96148015
People cry when they get tabled turn 1 becuase no one enjoys setting up for a game just to pick your models up off the board.
Like wise no one enjoys when their game gets cut by like a turn or 2 when they still have a lot of things they can do with half their army left.

>There really is no pleasing tabletop wargamers.
I think thats because you ahve 2 groups of people that have goals that are at odds with one another

Group one wants it to be a board game with even matches and a winner/loser with fairly equal outcome.

Group Two, are wargamers who use the system in the sense of a traditional war game, which is a system to run scenarios and the actual game is playing out said scenario.

>>96147910
People are 100% going to assert with no basis whatsoever that the legacies PDF will be updated to contain more things over time, I actually encountered this IRL this weekend including by one person who doesn't even play HH. We're already preempting the next stage of cope.

>>96148037
BA have an above average number of psykers. WS just are more accepting of them.

>>96148015
>Guy doesn't want to eat five hefty meals every day
>Guy also doesn't want to eat just half a crust of bread every day
wtf humans are impossible

>>96148031
Am i being gaslit right now?

>>96148018
Previously you might just leave an immobilized tank alone all the same. "oh that vindicator immobilized itself on some terrain turn 1? I can just avoid its centerline gun and leave it alone".

How is "status:pinned" any different to either crew stunned or "immobilized" in game terms? Except for the fact that the "status:pinned" can be repaired by a techmarine.

>>96148049
>People are 100% going to assert with no basis whatsoever that the legacies PDF will be updated to contain more things over time
Which is fucking hilarious because GW LITERALLY FUCKING SAYS THE EXACT OPPOSITE on the article that announced the Legacies like last week. Like GW themselves even say they will be making things obsolete over time.

>>96147980
Missile launchers are the sleeping giants atm. Frag and kraken are so unbelievably versatile in applying a status to units and vehicles.

>>96147894
It's just this, over and over again.
And to be fair, it looks like GWendolin will pump out a journal.every month for 2 5 years.

>>96148072
Its wild what happens to small blast weapons when GW finally finds a way to fix the problem we have had with small blasts for the last like....fuck since teh game went to 32MM base as the standard size.
My buddy ran a game where they did 2.0 rules but used the 3.0 blast rules and he said for the first time in a very long time, Plasma canons actually felt like proper MEQ and TEQ counter weapons.

>>96148044
12 v "almost" 50, so let's say 4v1, with explicitly active defences on the side of the defenders, being heavily entrenched probable veterans of the most hard fought war of the great crusade. It's plausible.

>>96148044
Get rekt SoH

>Your [Ranged Unit] gets fired at by another. What can you do?
>Return Fire
>Your [Ranged Unit] gets charged. What can you do?
>Overwatch
Your [Melee Unit] gets fired upon, and doesn't have shields or smoke bombs. What can they do?
Your [Melee Unit] gets charged and they have no guns. What can they do?
Surely the game is balanced, and taking melee units makes sense over just taking as many HSS and Tacticals as possible?

>>96148061
Because statuses need to be repaired which makes them much more annoying than shaken/stunned. Autorepair does make them less restrictive than immobilised/weapon destroyed.

My biggest issue with statuses is that pens don't inflict them.

What if the saturnine marines look like this under the armor

>>96148061
It's practical application that is different. You could avoid terrain immobilize with equipment and better moves. You weren't thing to immobilize an enemy unit, it was just a consequence.

Now, inversely, it is more efficient to apply a status to large vehicles to take them out of the game or drastically reduce their effectiveness. Doing pens to a spartan, it is at 100% efficiency at max HP or 1HP. And if you build for it with missile launchers it can get stuck in place all game.

You're conflating odds of similar situations with intended outcome of two different methods of dealing with vehicles.

>>96148061
>how is deliberately trying to just score glances different from trying to maximise your chance to penetrate instead of glance?
idk, maybe in that uhhh, kill yourself?

What if the saturnine marines look like this under the armor

>>96148108
yeah I mean its Justaerin but they def were not prepared for some twisting nightmare the Dark Angels like to build as fortresses, the Lion primarch book vs those psychic aliens is pretty good and talks about how weird they build shit.

>>96147981
>I dont care how good they are in terms of balance
Thats already stupid. You should obviously care about balance. The fact the game was never balanced, or that complaining that X unit isnt very good is fag shit for gayboys doesent change that balance is obviously desirable and in an ideal world would be present. You can accept that the game has inevitable flaws (and that the people who get buttmad about it are homosexuals) without having to deny that they are flaws.

>i care how good they are when GW will just use that as leverage to justify selling you DLC content for units we already have rules for.
Thats stupid twice over. Its both hypocritical (if balance doesent matter, who cares) but also carves out a paranoid alt-reality for itself. "GW will release units with bad rules (like destroyers, who were very good in 2.0) but then release for them busted new rules (like they did for saturnine terminators)!", you manage to trap yourself in a worldview where balance both doesent matter (and GW is happy to put out purposefully bad rules, decreasing sales) but then a unit later receiving good rules is terrible and clearly a ploy by GW to sell more plastic. If something is bad its because GW doesent care, if something is good its because they are cynically trying to move product.

>I care if they purposefully gimp a unit just to buff it for a price down the road.
Such as. Which units do you think have been purposefully gimped so they can be buffed for a price? Terminators? Assault marines? Breachers? Saturnine terminators? That superheavy theyre releasing? The consuls (which they just spent a year releasing models for)?

>>96148065
If anything the legacies rules will slowly become obsolete, judging by fucking tarantula sentry guns no longer being in legacies. If there is one unit GW should have squatted it's fucking tarantula sentry guns.

>>96148118
>Your [Melee Unit] gets fired upon, and doesn't have shields or smoke bombs. What can they do?
I've already lost due to my own tactical error and will suffer the consequences
>Your [Melee Unit] gets charged and they have no guns. What can they do?
Whine about losing out on 5-9" of free movement but ultimately suffer no negative consequences

>>96148171
Truer words...

>>96148119
>My biggest issue with statuses is that pens don't inflict them.
This. An autocannon hitting AV13 can stunlock a Predator. But Melta bomb its ass and it can still fight at 100% capacity because penetrating hits inflict no statuses, and the bomb does 4 HP and even Rhinos have 5 HP.
What the hell?

>>96148171
>If anything
No its not even an IF, its a 100% thing they are going to do, GW says so themselves.

If you have a unit that is in the Legacy PDF, and it does not end up getting a entry in a tactica journal, that unit is living on borrowed time.

>>96148171
I hink they have a retarded directive to produce every unit available in Ligma in Heresy scale.

Deep striking a praetorian jump squad with full disintegrator rifles sounds funni but is it good?

>>96148176
>That time I couldn't return fire because I forgot my autocannon on the ship and all i brought was my power blade
Hoisted by his foe's own petard

>>96145724
I swear, every time our legion gets represented in the public spotlight, its always some lame, hard to-look-at dog shit

>>96148191
the counter argument to that is oh look legacy units survived from 2.0 into 3.0! Which is true but belies the fact that the design ethos for 3.0 is to really trim units and customization down now. Pretty clear they cut support for 2.0 in half once this decision was made. I doubt 4.0 in 3 years has this level of "Legacy" support.

>>96148119
>My biggest issue with statuses is that pens don't inflict them.
I can understand that argument from a gamefeel/immersion perspective, but in terms of "mechanically its not rewarding enough" I dont buy it. The benefit of a penetrating hit is that you deal a bunch of damage to the tank. You dont need that 3 damage laser destroyer ALSO pinning the tank it just half killed, half killing it is already enough benefit.

>>96148125
>>96148131
You do understand that "this weapon can only glance" and "this weapon tries to get glances rather than pens" are entirely different things, right? A missile launcher isnt "hoping for glances rather than pens" vs a spartan, it is only capable of one of those things. When you are firing a HSS with missiles at a vehicle like that you are doing it not because the status is better than the damage you might inflict, but because the status is better than nothing. Death is the best CC, but if you cant kill it making it snapfire or whatever is preferable.

>>96148198
At one point you should consider if jumping through so many hoops is worth it for killing 3+ save 2W marines, anon. Like, can't a Vindicator handle that? I'm hearing vehicles are fucking invincible

>>96148189
>>96148119
After a few more games if vehicle status becomes such an awful feels bad I'm going to suggest an integrity check for statuses. Roll equal to or under current HP on 1d6 to avoid a status. Thus as a vehicle takes damage and loses integrity, glances make sense to hit exposed servos, ammo, sensors, etc. alternative to this is glance always 1hp and pens cause a status that can be resisted with an integrity check.

>>96148198
Good? probably not. Most of the disintigrators are overly specific and having them will cripple your melee potential.
But it is funny.

>>96148197
Im going to die laughing if GW, in their infinite wisdom, or lack there of, make a stormbird in plastic before a Thunder hawk.
>>96148217
they are living on borrowed time, which is why im not investing any money into 3.0 content, im not gonna get fooled again like i did in 8th.

>>96148191
Like box dreads, palatine jump packs and indomitus terminators right?
Tarantulas are an argument FOR legacy longevity, not against, theyre an irrelevant unit that languished in the legacy files for ages and is now in a liber and has new plastic models.

>>96148228
I'll just bring a couple of techmarines for only 50 points each and never have to deal with any status effects. Battlesmith is low key busted now.

>>96148228
If the status check from a glance cannot be resisted, then one caused from a penetrating hit even less so.
>Integrity checks
No need to jump through yet more hoops. Easiest thing is to let penetrating hits cause statuses, and let glances do a single HP on top of the glance they already cause
Though I heard Knights cannot resist statuses. Their invulns don't grant them a save against ranged attacks or something?

>>96148256
>you have to bring the tech specialists of the legion if you want to fully utilize your vehicles in a reliable manner
>ANONS SHOCKED BY THIS ONE SIMPLE TRICK, NO ONE COULD HAVE SEEN IT COMING

>>96148198
I did a lot of crunch on that very unit. Volkite chargers are better at killing 1w 3+. Disitigrator rifles are better at killing 2w 3+. Chargers can volley and the big set up means it's hard to fail a close charge. 2+ armor means overload from the rifles does fry one instantly. So it's interesting.

I just tried a charger unit with a Moritat for firestorm and it was a lot of fun. In reality a serpenta unit with a power weapon is probably even better than either.

>>96148220
>You do understand that
You do understand that list building is conducted by a player who has choices, and may be able to have an intent with those choices, such as taking MLs specifically to glance AV14, right?

>>96148261
>and let glances do a single HP on top of the glance they already cause
I think thats a bad idea. That just returns vehicles to "gets glanced to death endlessly", the exact situation the new rules are designed to avoid. Glances are powerful enough.

>>96148272
Do whatever you like, but I will never use a tactic that relies on rolling a 6.

>>96148272
>I took a HSS to maybe deal one glance to a land raider per turn
That player is clearly clinically retarded

>>96148242
oh they absolutely would make the stormbird first, and the Thunder Hawk will be a scenery piece with open bays and cracked earth underneath the landing feet.

>>96148220
>is only capable of one of those things
Yes exactly. I have purposely chosen MLs because I am fishing for a status rather than spending yet more points and additional units to kill it. That is the point. Once I make it snap or immobilize it then I am going to use the ML to status kill infantry.

>>96148295
God they really could/would wouldn't they?