>Crunchy games with lots of rules and mechanics
>Than games are released with a focus on story and character mechanics like FATE that are fairly light on mechanics
>Then Morkborg gets released which is even more light on mechanics and lore
>Now Vermis and Godhusk are released which only contain small tidbits of lore and rules for players to make up as well as Trench Crusade which tells players to outright ignore and make up their own canon with the small lore tidbits
Is this really the line we are going down now?

>>96142872 (OP)
>Trench Crusade which tells players to outright ignore and make up their own canon with the small lore tidbits
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you but isn't modifying the lore/canon to suit your group what everyone has always done?

>>96143108
Yes and exactly why modern 40k is gay because they're making it harder each edition to do so. But people who don't play games wouldn't know that, like OP.

>>96143108
Modifying canon and lore is one thing and yes, has always been a thing. The topics I am talking about however deliberately makes a lot of the world vague while encouraging players to come up with their own conclusions. It comes off as being non-committal as opposed to letting people make their own conclusions about the world. With Warhammer there are things (or at least used to be) that certain things are always canon no matter what unless you are going out of your way to really break the games lore.

>>96142872 (OP)
Rules light and building your own lore are two completely different things.

I seem to recall Dogs in the Vinyard had something like this by design. It's about traveling exorcists in the Wild West who are part of some alternate history Mormon church, but the creator wasn't a fan of Mormonism beyond finding the history interesting, so he made the religion as vague as possible and had the players make up the tenets of it as they went along. This might seem lazy on the face of it, but the thing is that the demons they fight are attracted to people who break the rules of the religion and can be weakened by the faith of their intended host's community, so there's this whole emergent gameplay thing with how everything the players add to the lore is going to affect how future battles play out.

>>96143219
>The topics I am talking about however deliberately makes a lot of the world vague while encouraging players to come up with their own conclusions

Sort of like Dungeons and Dragons, the game made by Gygax and Arneson in 74?

>>96151839
>>96143108
I suppose anon's problem as described in >>96143219 is that that being too insistent on others' ability to ignore everything and do as they like can end up becoming a crutch to avoid actually describing good guidelines what's "in flavor" for the universe, to the point of warranting the question "why don't you just make this a settingless rulebook ala DungeonWorld if you don't wanna give anyone much of anything to work with regarding your world?".

>>96142872 (OP)
When you mentioned Vermis the bait was too obvious

>>96142872 (OP)
>Trench Crusade which tells players to outright ignore and make up their own canon with the small lore tidbits
I almost fell for the TC slop until they reveleaded the map and quit. It's impresive what edgy concept art could do to me.

>>96142872 (OP)
>>96143219
>>96151994
Settingless wpuld be superior, yes, but nonetheless: Skill issue. Bring your own imagination.

>>96142872 (OP)
Your evolutionary chart is fucked, early games weren't super crunchy with lots of rules. D&d, traveller, Runequest and shit weren't super rules heavy, and the movement back to rules light games is actually the hobby returning to it's earlier, purer state.

Why would you need a GM when the rules cover every possible situation and everything about the setting is well established? Their role would be quite joyless.

Dark Souls. It's literally just Dark Souls. All the "vagueposting" approach to lore in a lot of recent RPGs is just them aping a successful vidya that has the same "vibe" they're going for. The thing is, Miyazaki and the other developers at Fromsoft usually had a fairly concrete idea of what was going on behind the scenes and just parcelled out information the way they did for a lot of narrative and design reasons that smarter people than me have already discussed at length. Most of the hacks discussed in this threat just do it to be lazy and obtuse.

>>96152033
This, it was too harmful to MENA folx

>>96153438
>This, it was too harmful to MENA folx
What does that even mean?

>>96152360
Correct.

>>96142872 (OP)
>skipping decades of evolution in the medium
>pretending the thing he knows is more important than game chagers
Vermis isn't even a game, it's an art book that looks like a videogame manual. What are you even complaining about? Play more games before complaining about the whole medium

>>96142872 (OP)
>>96151839
Unironically I prefer to have a game be setting-independent with the expectation that you’re just gonna do your own setting. Not only does it give me more freedom in what I want to do with my game but I don’t get lore obsessed players who whine about the smallest minute details being wrong in my interpretation of the Forgotten Realms or whatever (this has happened before but for a different setting that shall go unnamed). Yes, stuff like old D&D and Classic Traveller had an implied setting but that’s significantly different than 500 pages of autistic comic book lore.

>>96153879

Middle East North Africa