I was watching a clip from john wick and they were playing 5 card draw and he got aces over eights which lead me to look up what actual type of game Wild Bill was playing when he got shot and it was either 5 card draw or 5 card stud.
How the fuck was 5 card draw ever popular? it's like the most fucking retarded version of poker compared to 5 card stud, 7 card stud, omaha and texas hold'em where you actually have partial information to base your bets off of. Were 1800s people just fucking massive degenerate gamblers or something? The only way 5 card draw could have been fun or popular is if everyone involves was a massive degenerate gambler.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GsQYT-btPA
they are playing fucking full deck 5 card draw in for a few dollars more. that's retarded

>>96143133 (OP)
>Were 1800s people just fucking massive degenerate gamblers
yes

>>96143133 (OP)
It's easier to win when you just draw a gun on the table and take the pot. Which is something Wild Bill was said to have done more than once.

>>96143133 (OP)
>Were 1800s people just fucking massive degenerate gamblers or something?
Yes. It's why it's been heavily regulated, sometimes to the point of being treated as seriously as narcotics throughout history.

>>96143133 (OP)
Poker is and always was just a goombler game for people who want to piss their money away. The idea that you can someone skill your way into victory is a silly shit perpetuated by casinos to lure more suckers in. Almost all poker "pros" are actually losing players, many went into debt.

>>96143558
I'm not saying poker is a good game, but poker without the shared partial information might as well literally be betting on coin flips. it's not fun or engaging it's literally just degeneracy. at least something like texas hold'em has actual fun mechanics with bluffing and inferring based on partial information. IE stuff you see in other popular games. Like Resistance is a game where the whole point of the game is bluffing

>>96143662
Eh, all poker is just coin flips. Even the "professionals" are always just blowing out or up due to incredible luck. That's why "amateurs" are always winning big poker tournaments, because there isn't that much skill involved.

https://youtu.be/H5Xc4Wi5IMw?si=v7Rv_bDgD3yTSt4M

>>96143133 (OP)
>zoom zoom
Five card draw or seven card stud were the default games of poker for the 19th and most of the 20th century. Texas Hold'em didn't get popular until the early 2000s and it's annoying as hell videogames use it. Red Dead Redemption 2 takes place twenty years before Hold'em was even invented and yet they're playing that shit.

>>96143754
>>96143662
What are the most skillful traditional card games? Partnership and bidding trick takers like bridge?

>>96143738
I'm not saying it's a skill based game. I'm saying without the public facing cards, it's not a very fun or engaging game
>>96143754
5 card stud existed at the time and would be a more fun and engaging game than 5 card draw. same as 7 card stud. if there aren't cards with public information then there isn't an engaging mechanic. no one fucking plays 5 card draw because it's boring compared to the types of games with cards that are public info

>>96143133 (OP)
>Were 1800s people just fucking massive degenerate gamblers or something?
Anon, the dice game Craps is a variant of an older dice game called Hazard. The only difference is that in Hazard you can choose to have a lower chance of winning before you throw the dice. Craps forces the optimal choice on you.
We don't know exactly when people started playing Hazard but the oldest reference to the game is about 500 years older than Craps.

Also the word hazard as in something dangerous is named after the game, not the other way around. The game's name is a bastardization of the Arabic word for dice.

>>96143769
that's hilarious. what prompted the change?

>>96143133 (OP)
>Were 1800s people just fucking massive degenerate gamblers or something?
How could you possibly suppose otherwise?

>>96143835
Mathematicians invented probability theory. Until then the correct choice wasn't understood so people made sub-optimal choices.
Once people knew what they were doing everyone made the optimal choice so the rules around making sub-optimal choices became irrelevant.

>>96143133 (OP)
>partial information to base your bets off of. Were 1800s people just fucking massive degenerate gamblers
People don't need good information to gamble.

>>96143764
Skat, Scopone, Tichu, Durak, double deck Pinochle

>>96143769
In Polish "hazard" is the word for gambling itself.

>>96143765
>I'm not saying it's a skill based game. I'm saying without the public facing cards, it's not a very fun or engaging game

Clearly people in the past disagreed with you.

Actually, a lot of historical card games were completely random, with the only skill involved being the betting meta-game...or there being no skill at all. For example, baccarat was the game of choice for the wealthy for several decades in the late 19th and early 20th Centuries.

The idea that gambling games should depend on skill basically at all dates from about the 1950s with blackjack when some mathematicians wrote a paper on it as part of a broader investigation of statistical analysis and the new field of Game Theory.

As the other poster said, Texas Hold 'Em only became popular a couple decades ago (taking over from Five Card Draw), and the extent to which it requires skill was massively exaggerated to hype it as a spectator sport.

>>96143849

It's like how in swimming, "freestyle" actually means "do whatever stroke you want", but everyone always does front crawl.

If you think draw poker has no partial information, or even that visible cards are the most important partial information in other forms of poker, then you fucking suck at poker.

>>96144737
>Clearly people in the past disagreed with you.
clearly they didn't because 7 card stud, omaha and texas hold'em are all more popular variants than fucking 5 card draw
>As the other poster said, Texas Hold 'Em only became popular a couple decades ago (taking over from Five Card Draw),
It took over from 7 card stud. in the supranos they are playing 7 card stud, a game where there are public information cards

>>96145981
you sound like a gay retard. in 52 card 5 card draw the only info you have is the 5-10 private cards you see and
>muh reading muh opponent

>>96146046
You also know how many cards your opponents replaced.

>>96143765
Do yourself a favor and watch the movie Maverick on streaming. Poker wasn't about deciding things on public information, it was about reading your opponent.

>>96146092
that still gives you no info into what they actually have. You can assume fewer cards mean stronger hand but for all you know they replaced 1 card but still missed a straight or flush.
>>96146100
which isn't fun or engaging, see stud and hold'em both being more popular than draw

>>96143133 (OP)
>Were 1800s people just fucking massive degenerate gamblers or something?
In a little village set up for a gold rush there's nothing to do except go to a saloon for whores, booze and gambling. The first permanent building anyone would build is a hotel, the second is a saloon. Most of the people around would be living in tents because everyone is new and chasing after that gold. People didn't travel out there with families unless it was to start a farm. If they were married the wife was 'back home'.

There was literally nothing to do but go to the saloon. And the only entertainment was a piano, cards, and people threatening to shoot each other over a few pennies.

The american concept of a hotel was formalized by these kinds of towns, and the first state to give women the right to vote did so because the prostitutes organized and were so vital to the economy.

>>96143133 (OP)
Wild Bill's hand wasn't something impressive, it was (according to stories) just the hand he happened to have when someone came over and shot him in the back of the head. They weren't shooting him over that game, they walked in behind while he was playing with other people.

>>96146252
>and the first state to give women the right to vote did so because the prostitutes organized
Womens rights always just goes back to women wanting to be whores, huh?

>>96146292
>wanting
it's men that want them to be whores, it's women looking to profit over one of the few professions they were allowed to have. Which is why they organized and got the right to vote. So they could do literally anything besides being a prostitute or a housewife.

>>96146252

Having worked in the Permian Basin this century, that line still often holds true in resource boom towns. Working out there, the only thing to do is work, or spend your money on booze/whores/gambling. And half the time, the only one that's actually available is booze.

>>96146305
And now both men and women are more miserable than ever before.

>>96145981
you are a saging tranny retard
>>96146252
that doesn't change the fact that poker is more fun with the partial shared information mechanic

>>96146287
aces over eights is a decent hand in 5 card draw. I'm saying 5 card draw is a shit variant
>>96146305
how's the transition going?

>>96146142
>which isn't fun or engaging
Yes, it is. It basically becomes a game of social deduction and pattern analysis.

>>96147026
no, it really isn't, which is why hold'em and stud style variants won out. they are inherently more fun due to the shared public information

>>96147112
Fun is subjective to begin with, so you literally cannot argue on that point. Some people derive genuine enjoyment from social deduction and reading the room more than analyzing public information. If you can't fathom that, then you might be autistic.

>>96147230
again, hold'em and stud style variants are way more popular than draw variants and also have social deduction and reading the room. Draw might as well just be gambling on high card or coin flips, faggot

>>96147230
It's not even the best traditional card game for that. Bridge does it better, and it outlasted all of those.

>>96147413
Competitive bridge is autism for senile boomers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6sxQnG2Y2w

>>96143133 (OP)
All poker is just massive degenerate gambling. Play a real fucking card game.

>>96147375
>Draw might as well just be gambling on high card or coin flips
Sure, and some people like that because they're looking for a cheap thrill with a bit of social skill involved. You know that people bet on dice or other random bullshit as well, right?

>>96147375
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-up

>>96147726
Australians aren't people
>>96147707
maybe absolute degenerate gamblers

>>96147761
For every 1 McDonald's in Australia there are 3.5 non-casino businesses with slot machines.

>>96147820
jesus, what fucking degenerate gamblers

>>96147230
>Fun is subjective
Nice reddit argument. Some people find enjoyment playing with literal shit.

>>96148533
>Some people find enjoyment playing with literal shit.
nta but that sounds like subjective fun.

>>96143558
I put $10 into a poker account and made $50 profit and withdrew it. Some actual play, some from the "welcome package" tickets to enter mini tournaments.

Then I started again at zero and I'm back up to $35. I just sit patient on the tables with like $0.25 and $0.50 blinds and pots are often like $2-10

I just like playing Texas Holdem it's got a nice routine to it.

>>96149094
Imagine if you sold your home and put $200k into it instead, you'd walk away with a million bucks. Remember, its not gambling its pure skillz

>>96149334
See that's what I tell my partner.

Nah lol I kind of just like the game, I lost £80 at a casino when I was like 18 and I've been dog sick to ever go into a casino again, other than for food and drinks and a free taxi at 4am

No idea how so many of my fellow Bongs sink hundreds into football betting every weekend.

>>96146578
Since no-fault divorce became a thing, the rates of people murdering their spouses dropped drastically, so *quite a few people* were unhappy with the way things were going on before.

>>96149562
If that is seriously your argument you are not going to convince anybody when compared to the absolute insanity that is today that everyone is feeling that wasn't an issue before.

>>96149562
>the rates of people murdering their spouses dropped drastically,
has the rate of people murdering their boyfriend/girlfriend gone up?

>>96146605
yeah but it's only decent and it's only coincidence and only notable because he fucking died holding it. It was just the game they happened to be playing at the time.

>>96149729
Well make up your mind then. We talking times being bad economically or socially? They're better socially and worse economically compared to 60 years ago. "absolute insanity" which side are you talking from here: the 'everything is bad now because we no longer tax the rich' side or the 'everything is bad because women can have opinions' side? you seem like you're trying to be the later without saying it outright.

>>96149842
that's included in the stats he's referring to. It's very clearly that people who had no way to escape a person legally had to resort to murder.

>>96149729
>absolute insanity
Your perspective, which you will probably refuse to elaborate on because you have the attention span of a gnat, is only made possible because the leaps and bounds of progress made in the time since.
Women are often still whores that squander their opportunities, but the percentage of competent women [non-exclusively also blacks and people of other races] that managed to make the fields they entered more competitive, led to the current reality you have now.
Anyone in the world is now privy to the bitchfest of a single lonely hillbilly sitting in the basement of his mother's house, who would have died in obscurity with no a single self satisfying accomplishment to their name unless it's World's Largest Turd.
|If we recover from the damage they and their childless auntie equivalents do to our fragile society, it won't be because of unimaginative fucks like you.

Go fish.

>>96149970
I think they just wanted to use the symbolism for the film. they do the same thing in buster skurggs and in the moterhead song
>>96150036
I'd say global misery has gone up since then