Welcome to Mecha Monday! Here we dedicate ourselves to mecha RPGs, war games, and board games alike. Here we start games, tell campaign stories, share resources & assets, and seek advice for our games and homebrew.

Assorted Mecha Goodness:
https://pastebin.com/E2wi55AZ
Embryo Machine Translation:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1r_cjOLuUp3HussVRhbQYU3G0zK6hwy1r
Lancehounds Homebrew:
M3g4 folder/eMEBUbCL#kj2FRrlqTa-02U16XpnVRg

Previous Thread:
>>95885776

Question of the Thread:
Naturally the nature of mecha is war and war is human drama. How much do you flavor your games with drama? Do you like to relish in tragedy, keep it more lighthearted, or keep it almost cold in a machine-like manner? This could apply to both how you design your PC or how you theme your adventures as a GM.

>>96149893 (OP)
I prefer the opposite, I view mechs as being a post-war phenomenon. As a weapon of war mechs don't really make much sense, they're too fragile, yet expensive, too big, too inefficient. The mech is not a weapon of a nation trying to take war seriously and end a conflict as quickly as possible in their favor.

Where mechs DO make sense is as an honorable tool of resolving duels. Mechs aren't efficient, but they are majestic. They aren't durable, but they are majestic. A tank or a plane can win a war on the battlefield, but they can't truly 'duel' like a mech can. A mech has a face for people to identify with, and since it's crewed by one man, a duel between mechs comes down entirely to skill.

Thus, mechs make the most sense in a society which has risen above the concept of war.

Are there any combined-arms mecha games, in a similar vein to Battletech?

>>96149915
So you see mecha more as a propaganda piece at worse and an exercise of honor at best? I could see going for that. Most mecha media or rather real robot media, tend to go for the mecha as an extension of the battlefield. A new toy to deploy over something that means more than sociopathy I feel like.

>>96149934
So mech games where mechs are still the stars of the show but there's other conventional vehicles for them to trash to show how powerful they are?

Chromehounds is one, although the only conventional vehicles you go up against are tanks.

>>96149952
Yeah, where mechs are the stars but there's other stuff that is still useful (from tanks to planes to infantry)

>>96149934
Heavy Gear is the first answer that comes to mind but you could also go for Mekton and maybe Lancer / Battle Century G if you doctor it. I can't recall if Lancer has rules for more traditional vehicles or not.

>>96149978
Heavy Gear is probably a little TOO combined arms, it makes the gears a little too weak in comparison to the other options

>>96150003
True, A Gear can get raped by any tank or heli, If that's not what anon wanted then Heavy Gear might not be the best option. Honestly the Battletech RPGs might not be a bad choice but I can't speak for their quality.

>>96150003
Exactly like VOTOMS.

>>96149915
Then some nation decides to mass produce mecha to for their invasion.

>>96150156
Honestly VOTOMS is like...what's even the point?
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AI_WEAZ8L0o
This entire battle demonstrates the point pretty nicely. The mechs are convoluted, used in convoluted ways, and die en masse.....and then you find out afterwards that the battle was won by fucking conventional forces, and the mechs were literally just a distraction.

>>96150176
Were that to happen, you'd probably end up with a scene where a crew of plucky peasants go into a museum, find an ancient era tank, and decide as a desperation move to use it, only to discover that the tank is way more powerful than the mechs being used in the invasion

>they made a Starsiege mini game
the models aren't amazing but it's still kino assembling my favorite HERCs. Only real loss is they never made an Apoc model

>>96150177
Rule of cool.

>>96149934
Front Mission. I think you only control mecha but the enemies field mecha, tanks, and copters against you.

>>96150023
Their quality depends on how much crunch you like, and how many skills you think is too many. Seen one in a d6 pool style, and one in a d100. Both seemed to require that special level of early 90s autism to play.
>>96150003
Gears and VOTOMs are both the smallest level of mecha, outside of calling power armor mecha. It makes sense they aren't the kings of the battlefield. Allowing tanks or VTOLs to serve as boss fights is pretty cool, instead of "It's an even BIGGER giant robot"

>>96149893 (OP)
can someone point me in half decent campaing rules for HG Blitz 3.1? anything works I just need a way too repair Gears and see if pilots died between missions. anything works

>>96150177
I liked Pailsen files' use of the polymer solution.
But non-mechs are actually rarely seen IIRC in the original VOTOMS, there's helicopters in a couple of arcs but not many tanks. And that fight I think is a good example of why there should be more combined arms mecha, so they don't have to do all these convoluted things

>>96150286
Mechs suffer from a twofold problem:
1) There's not enough of a niche to demand their use
2) They're too niche to be used

Both of these problems exist, ironically, at the same time, for the military to develop mechs, they would have to have a problem that they just can't solve any other way, because mechs are a very expensive and maintenance heavy platform, and yet at the same time, mechs would have to be capable of fulfilling multiple roles, because the military isn't overly fond of military equipment that can only perform a single function, they prefer multi-role aircraft for a good reason after all.

So with that in mind, when mechs are introduced into a setting, there's no real life 'role' for them to slip into that would justify combined arms, and thus the typical role is...'everything, but better'.

>>96150251
You sure you don't just want the 4e RPG? I do recall the companion 3.1 book having some campaigning options in there.

>>96150198
Do you actually have a set? Cause if so then I'm jelly. I'd love to have a painted up Adjudicator. Wonder if you could also get them scanned. They're probably higher res than the in-game models.

>>96150382
i am POSITIVE that I dont wanna use the 4e RPG. Im running a campaign with a friend and we wanna toy with an actual narrative with logistics. and I dont wanna open that beast of a tome and figure out how too convert vehicle repair rules from a RPG too a Wargame

>>96150373
I wonder if that could change with the right tech. I always thought the idea behind Battletechs Myomers was a good start. Motors are just not good at having back and forth motion that limbs need to have. So instead going for an artificial muscle that theoretically also cheap to make would at least make it so you could field mechs for some benefits such as rough terrain navigation or environment interaction.

>>96150430
I'm not seeing anything in the companion about repair jobs but there does seem to at least be some survivor rules. Maybe we could homebrew a pilot and gear mortality rule for campaigning.
Maybe something to kick off like
>If a Gear is destroyed, role 2d6 against its pilot threshold to see if the pilot lives, if overkilled then it would be a 1d6

I don't know much about infinity but I like the landmate esque TAG mechs

>>96150600
are you in the Blitz discord or the Heavy Gear hangout?

Im happy too message you on there if you have the time

>>96150628
No but I could maybe hit up the Blitz discord. I don't have many accounts for things, I also ghost the Heavy Gear reddit but don't have an account. Nice thing about 4chan is that I can just post.

>>96150660
hey if you dont have a account dont force yourself too make one. I just need ideas. HG Areana has some nice rules I think we can nab for ease of use. Alternativly . How convertable is Alpha Strike too Blitz?

>>96150667
>How convertable is Alpha Strike too Blitz?
It's even simpler than HGB from what I know. Doesn't even have weapons profiles. But if it has decent pilot survival rules then you could lift them and use it for HGB. Could probably even tweak the roles for silhouettes "die meeting threshold = +1 to result" style of rolling. Arena could also be good. I really liked the idea of Arena but it being stuck in 1.0 era Blitz rules puts me off of touching it at all. There just needs to be a rough outline of "pilot has less chance to survive the more the Gear is damaged or outright detroyed / overkilled.

>>96150711
ok, by AS I mean converting the Chaos Campaing too Blitz,im sorry I have no clue why but i conflate the chaos campaign with Alpha Strike all the time.

>>96150452
Battletech is...an amusing one.

People will endlessly argue for hours on the subject, but from what I can tell, the prevalence of battlemechs is...mostly a cultural phenomenon. They were first devised as a terror weapon designed to strike fear, and then they became a tool of the aristocracy to reinforce their power and prestige...and because the setting went full DUNE and never moved on past aristocracy nobody has ever given them up yet.

>>96150763
Gay I art

>>96150763
Yeah, with BT that was specifically a key technology that I took away as being a plausible reason for mechs, The rest of BT is not, If anything it kinda goes in the direction that >>96149915 was mentioning.

>>96150729
I haven't heard of Chaos Campaign before, what does the pilot rules in that look like? Another thing you could potentially do is look at Heavy Gear D6 Bravo over 4e if there's any streamlined pilot rules in that.

>>96150880
its really simple, basically you win a currency with every "track" or set of missions you participate in. and with each point/currency you can upgrade your skills, buy ammo (fairly useless for blitz, though) , buy units. vehicles. improve points. If I was on my tower I can probably post screenshots

>>96150808
Mechs in BT actually come into use because they demonstrate themselves to be superior weapons to tanks and such in combat.
The other guy is just a known shitposter that's fucking with you.

>>96151125
Superior to tanks, yes. Superior to ASF's, no.

>>96149915
This is a really gay worldbuilding stance because it implies that everyone uses mechs that actually just suck for a laugh. They might as well settle their problems with card games instead. You tabletop game is then a larp, of a larp.
It's much more fun when the setting just shrugs and says "mechs rule".

>>96150177
I keep saying this, votoms are enhanced infantry. They're supposed to be disposable and used in mass rushes. They're also still shockingly strong and completely devastate infantry or other light forces.
You can watch chirico get into a mech and absolutely waste people at a ludicrous rate in any other scene, there's no question what their use is. They're cheap and punch way above their weight, but that doesn't mean they suck or are pointless.

>>96150763
>They were first devised as a terror weapon designed to strike fear
And that's a retcon. Their first deployment was them kicking the shit out of a bunch of tanks cause they're just way better. It was later added onto by different writers that it was a farce and the tanks were shit and undergunned. Which is fucking stupid, and an example of american insecurity about power fantasies. They hate anything being too cool.

>>96151253
>it implies that everyone uses mechs that actually just suck for a laugh
I don't think you fully understand the appeal.

Mechs appeal to a fundamental part of the human spirit. They are a part of our soul. Humanity, at our very hearts, desires for mechanical embodiments of ourselves.

Now are they practical for combat? God no. But they are perfect for ceremonial purposes.

>>96151253
>Their first deployment was them kicking the shit out of a bunch of tanks
Outdated tanks with fewer weapons than the standard variant and controlled remotely.

This is like the equivalent of testing a weapon against some Somalian warlord's militia and then declaring it's the best in the world. You didn't even test it properly.

>>96151253
The retcon is pointless anyway because four mechs then go on to wipe out an entire modern armor company with infantry support.
But also that dude originally making all those claims about the lore is just baiting so I'd advise you to avoid engaging with him. Battletech has at least three complete troglodytes with some sort of vendetta against the setting, they constantly spout misinformation and headcanon to make any battletech discussion impossible. It sucks, things used to be better.

I like dragon mecha. The way I figure it, a civilization that could afford to use something like a mech would be so incredibly advanced that the actual form would cease mattering. So the mech becomes a symbol of their utter dominance, and what better a symbol than that of a fearsome dragon?

>>96151299
Oh yeah, he's also in the /btg/ right now insisting that the mechs are just ceremonial and le heckin combined arms are the real combatants.
It's all very underhanded stuff.

>>96151253
>This is a really gay worldbuilding stance because it implies that everyone uses mechs that actually just suck for a laugh.
There is in fact an established history of formal dueling resulting in ludicrously impractical weapons of minimal relation to standard military armaments, and even in jousting that was specifically supposed to be an element of real combat as sport it didn't take long for the equipment to diverge from proper field-use versions.

>>96151283
I think "completely facerolls when hilariously outnumbered" demonstrates fairly well, especially if the differences from peer field use are noted in enough detail to develop doctrine accordingly.

>>96151335
Even when it's because of a "One Unicorn" technology clearing the practical constraints making tanks better like artificial muscles or some REALLY bullshit for structure but garbage for armor material, the Western-typical six-limb arrangement can support quite a lot of technical solutions in a very compact package.

Wings are obvious, flight's ridiculously useful for all sorts of random bullshit and if you can make the limbs work there's a lot of variable geometry bullshit on offer, tail can tie into that and assists in using the forelegs as manipulators to not bother with separate engineering vehicles, usually using four legs helps with ground pressure and has a whole lot of mechanical efficiency options, and so on.

Won't look much like plausible organic dragons if you're serious about optimizing the form-factor according to the premises, but there does remain some argument in favor.

>>96151451
I always approach mechs more from a symbological POV rather than a purely mechanical view. The dragon mech, for example, can be taken as a triumph of several things.

Mechs are often espoused as a terror weapon, something used to inspire dread in the enemy, in which case taking the form of a terrifying mythological beast makes natural sense.

Additionally, since mechs are, in many ways, a triumph of the 'organic' design over 'artificial' designs (evolution has never produced a tank, or a plane, but it has produced bipedal creatures, and quadrupedal creatures), the dragon embraces that logic by being an apex predator which combines the certainty of steel with the savagery of nature.

And of course, everybody knows that mechs are kingmakers, so why not just skip to the end and make the dragon itself an imperious dragon-emperor?

Is a Pressure system, like Inverse BT Heat, a good system for a steampunk mech game?

>>96151737
Sounds good to me. though in practice its sounds like its just BTs heat system. If you were to differenciate it how are you doing so? Are you getting debuffed yhe less steam you have?

>>96151737
Sounds interesting to me. Though what differenciates it from BT? Do you get debuffs as you lose steam?

>>96150373
>they would have to have a problem that they just can't solve any other way, because mechs are a very expensive and maintenance heavy platform,

This is a bit of an exaggerated issue. Tanks, helicopters and jets are all expensive and maintenance heavy platforms, but they get used because they end up being efficient force multipliers for the costs (both maintenance and manpower). A tank turns 3 or 4 guys into a force that can handle 50 to 100 infantry. If a mech had the same maintenance costs as a tank, took only 1 man to pilot and was similarly effective tanks would be replaced with mechs.

Do the light anti-personnel rockets share the same model as the light rocket pack? I have some Hunter gears and I was considering the Wildfire varient. As far as I can tell, they don't have a seperate model like the LATM varients do.

Have you tried embryo machine? Is it simple enough to play in a language you barely understand (Japanese)?

>>96152057
Same model. Same for incendiary rockets.
>>96152531
You talking about the rpg, or the boardgame?

>>96151912
This is true, though somewhat alleviated by a humanoid form typically being not particularly better at killing than other forms. Dog forms on the other hand seem to be very promising along with quad-copters.

>>96152652
The RPG

>>96152678
What actually is the benefit of a human form? It seems like animals are just better as natural killers and if we did have mechs, they would just take the form of animals. Even for bipedal machines it would probably be better to model it off of a Gorilla.

>>96152652
>Same model. Same for incendiary rockets
Thanks. Follow up, is there a reason for why it isn't general upgrade option for any rocket pack to be swapped for anti-personnel rockets. Similar to how you can swap panzerfausts for hand grenades. or anti-tank missiles for airburst missles. Also now I'm wondering what to paint the rockets to signify that they're anti-personnel. I usually use red for the traditional rocket packs. Maybe military green?

>>96152761
Our form is a payoff for having extreme hand dexterity and brain mass, but a machine doesn't need to worry so much about that. Still, watch a monkey try to weave something. They just kind of can't do it.

For robots, it means they can use all our facilities and tools. People always get all "erm why isn't that robot a little thing on wheels" and then someone asks it to open a door, get milk out of a fridge and make them a coffee, and suddenly being a tiny weird little thing becomes a huge pain in the ass.

For mechs, it's because it looks cool. Makes a lot more sense for power armor or other limb-in-limb designs. You can do some good stuff with muscle tracer technology though, because a mech that's really just a big animated person with full control and dexterity actually would be pretty neat.

>>96152780
It will become an upgrade as you described in the upcoming Blitz version.
As for how to make it distinct, yeah color could work fine. Tho I think that's a bit overkill.

>>96152761
Power armor had an advantage for human form because cities and buildings are all designed for humans.

Bigger mechs however don’t really get much of an advantage from it, and would be better off with more animalistic designs.

>>96151837
>>96151780
The idea is that your boiler builds up X Steam per turn, and actions remove Steam.

I was inspired by Dragonmech, so it's contrasted against Galley Mechs whose oarsmen can temporarily sprint, but who tire out over the game; and clockwork which move like clockwork but whose power source is more sensitive to battle damage.

>>96149915
Smaller mecha (up to 4m tall) that are more just a super armored and highly versatile suit of super armor don't suffer from the issue of being overly expensive, inefficient or too big and you can very easily outfit a whole army with them. I can't find many examples of that aside from picrel or that girl from Overwatch though but the idea is right there.

>>96153418
>I can't find many examples of that
VOTOMS
Sakura Wars
Obsolete
Eden It's an Endless World
Ghost in the Shell/Appleseed
MaK
Rideback
Gall Force
Dorvack
Mospeada

>>96153590
Whatever show these were based on.

>>96153418
I think mini-mechs suffer from the issue of “why isn’t this just power armor?” At that point you have a mech that would be so much more useful if it was just a little smaller.

>>96153659
Can just give them same reasoning as any mech, the generators are just a hair too large. It also lets you skip around some of the more restrictive elements that power armor have, like being able to place the arms elsewhere, or transformation elements.
Power armor is pretty inflexible in design, certain things kind of just have to be a certain way.

>>96153626
I think that's from Megazone 23.

I like the way Obsolete handles its mechs.
>They’re extremely cheap to “buy”, because the aliens who are selling them to us want limestone in return, which is extremely cheap on the market and plentiful on Earth
>Implied to be partially organic, they have “blood” but can be easily repaired by just slapping the parts back on, although the frames can be broken apart easily enough, the pieces themselves are nigh indestructible
>The mechs are not actually weaponized, the aliens are only selling us the frames that move them, the armor, weapons, and other equipment all had to be developed natively
>They’re implied to be outdated junk by the alien’s standards, they’re basically selling us their equivalent of a rusty old Toyota Hilux, but we’re basically cavemen by their tech standards so this shit is amazing to us
>The mechs are considered a game changer for military power relations, because expensive weapons like carriers and tanks are able to be beaten by cheap mechs armed in someone’s garage

>>96153590
>>96153626
Viper's Creed
Kuromokuro
...

>>96150003
>>96150023
Gears aren’t weak; you just can’t use them like Battlemechs and expect they’ll live. They’re big infantry, and they’re good at the things infantry are good at but they’re bigger and stronger. They can’t take a tank headon but they’re bigger can outmaneuver it and hit it from cover; helicopters rape them if they don’t have anti-air guns or missiles but if they don’t then it’s the reverse. You just need to think about it like an actual military situation.

>>96150156
>>96150177
>>96150286
ATs aren’t as prone to instant death in the original VOTOMs show as they are in later material, it got exaggerated over time.

>>96150763
The prevalence of Battlemechs is because they’re straight-up better than conventional vehicles. This is reinforcement a ton in both fluffy and rules. *Why* they’re better is pretty dubious and incoherent but it was never just an illusion.

>>96151780
It seems like the reverse, where you’re spending points to do stuff. Which is how BT should have worked to start with.

>>96152761
Hands. They’re better than any other thing on any other animal. The most realistic “mech” would just be a little treaded thingy with arms and hands.

>>96155416
>The prevalence of Battlemechs is because they’re straight-up better than conventional vehicles.
Where this gets really weird is that ASF’s are NOT conventional vehicles, they’re basically flying battlemechs, and the sole exception to the “battlemechs are best” rule

>>96155431
Yes but their rules are so painful to use that they’re worse by default

>I've ran Battle Century G quite a bit. It was my first system I've ever successfully GM'd for and I will always liked it.
>My OSR-passionate friend keeps raving about Mecha Hack. He says its like an OSR, he likes OSR, he regularly runs OSR campaigns.
>our compromise is Lancer. Albiet for opposite reasons. He likes the concept and lore, but from what he's read he hates the mechanics. I absolutely hate both the setting and its tone, but I've heard its basically 4e and I've always wanted to try 4e.
Are the other two systems worth reading over? I don't mind playing OSR, but I don't really value it as a genre either. And I'd rather know if Lancer is worth the mainstream hype before buying. I'm not made of money.

>>96153659
I actually feel like mini-mechs could be more useful for certain reasons.
1. wheel based locomotion, you could do the Votoms/Gear thing of giving it traditional tires for road or flatland traversal.
2. superior strength, Any enhanced strength from power armor can only go so far before it breaks the limbs of the user.
3. bigger armaments, you could give a sawed off tank gun to a gear.
Plus you could shove it full of extras like neural nets to help with targeting and sub systems to take the heat off the pilot. And depending on how mini they are, they could still use human sized structures and objects like doors. Power Armor I feel like would be more beneficial for the "Armor" over the "Power"

>>96156490
>hey could still use human sized structures and objects like doors
This is the most important part imo

Everything else is largely secondary, but the ability to use human-sized structures and equipment is HUGE for a mini-mech's viability as a platform.

>>96156007
Lancer has a free rulebook if you just want to check it out. For an ideal experience you will likely have to strip something out of Lancer as is like the lore to get the most out of the experience.

>>96153355
Sounds cool. Is there any punishment for low or no steam? I could see how a mech would low steam would start to become non-functional. Like it can only fire small armaments.

>>96152830
>As for how to make it distinct, yeah color could work fine. Tho I think that's a bit overkill.
I suppose I could just keep it the same as how I normally paint my Gears. Then I could also get two varients for the price of one, since a Wildfire Hunter with a standard RP just becomes a Hunter Gunner.

>>96153590
These worth checking out? Besides votoms, gits and appleseeed, I've seen those ones

>>96156636
Making a building to size to work with pic-related makes more sense then one that is 60 ft tall.

Anyone tried this? Fuckers didn't even put the player gear for free and afaik itchio doesn't have a refund policy so I'm not sure if I wanna risk it, but I like the concept
https://pigsriot.itch.io/blood-money

Size has been the big killer for me. Ideally I want mechs to help in space boarding actions but even if they're the size of the ones in appleseed that's still a little too cramped for the submarine like halls in a spaceship

>>96152802
>>96152761
Zoids vs Gundams vs Battle Tech mechs who wins (ignoring Gundam's crazier stuff like psychic drones and nuke bazookas)

>>96157149
What type of spaceship is it? I feel like something that isn't purely a research/scout ship would have halls big enough to have mechs run around in it. Plus mecha can be on the external hull of the ship.

>>96157149
Let them be too big for space ship then. But make space stations large enough to fit mechs, or atleast to varying degrees. The cargo bay and main hallways should be plenty large enough to fit mechs. But then have maintenance tunnels and other side areas make your mech feel cramped, or perhaps even straight up inaccessible at parts. Claustrophobia is a tool not a problem.
Alternatively, take pages from >>96157269 and have the mechs stay on the outside of the ship. Think of them less as the boarder and more of the battery ram. Punching holes into the ship and yanking out the defenders into the cold vacuum of space. Let the differences in roles highlight the mechs power. It is not just a jet fighter who gets into dogfights, but a space dragon that terrorizes those beneath it.

>>96157548
>mfw the nukies got a mauler

>>96157848
*honks your path*

>>96158024
>*Honks eldritchly*

In Heavy Gear, a Combat Group is supposed to have 4 to 6 actions. But I've seen "Groups" that have less than 4 models. Which is it?

>>96158702
Correct. 4 to 6 "actions". A Kodiak for example has 2 actions so he takes up 2 slots within a CG.

>>96153355
I really like the way you've differentiated the "motive" options. I hope you will share more of your work with us as time goes on.

>>96156007
Check the links in the OP, you might find a solution to some of your concerns, at least in terms of saving money.

I enjoy Lancer, and am running a campaign right now. But you should know that Lancer is not a generic system like BCG or Mekton. I wouldn't use it to replicate VOTOMs or ZOIDS, for example, but it could do Exosquad pretty well.
I don't know enough about the Mecha Hack to say anything positive or negative.

>>96158969
Mecha Hack is really really REALLY lightweight. At around 40 pages. You'll either love or hate it. 4 pilot types and 4 chassis to pick from.

>>96156842
Obsolete is pretty much completely about people doing stuff with robots.
Sakura Wars is best enjoyed as a videya, because the characters are rather frustrating when all you can do is watch them - the first OVA was pretty good though.
Eden's okay, but gets weird and stalls out at some point.
Rideback's manga's about looking at women in the shower, the cartoon was okay but the plot went into some really odd directions for not apparent reason. Like there's a Sephiroth clone in a cartoon that used to be about Student's Protests. Very solid mecha parkouring though, when you get it.
Gall Force allegedly was good. Haven't seen it.
No idea about Dorvack and Mospada - Dorvack got its longlivety through scale modelers absolutely to town on some minor powered armour design, which probably influenced the creation of the MaK line while Mospeada seemed to have bee an important step in transforming motorcycle mecha design.
Mega Zone 23 was funded by the music industry, same as Macross.
Viper's Creed was mid to bad, I think.
Kuromokuro was kinda like Argevollen in that they had some good ideas and good delivery, but the highs never really managed to make up for the lows. You're better off watching Majestic Princes and Heroic Age.

Lancer's horus stuff seems pretty dope but nobody in my group wants to learn a new system
How tough would it be to run an LL0 game it if i never dm'd before?

Lancer is a bad ugly game with crap lore and shonky mechanics and I truly don't know why it keeps getting attention. Is it just because it wasn't made in the 80's, unlike the rest?

>>96156007
The thing is, it's more lightweight than OSR. I mean, it doesn't do stuff like facilitating exploration

>>96160104
(Cont'd), loot for xp, or many other OSR staples. At it's core, its a simple grid battle system with some stat blocks.

>>96149893 (OP)
>How much do you flavor your games with drama?
Drama is good. But I don't let it devolve into melodrama unless I'm playing with a good set of players. My current game went too far into melodrama for a while, so I'm trying to counterbalance it right now.

>>96155431
ASFs can't operate underwater, underground, or inside a Castle Brian. Can't effectively capture or hold territory. But yeah, stat-wise it is weird that they are just flying 'Mechs. Maybe that came about because of LAMs back in the day, and the developers wanted to make pure Aerospace Fighters better than hybrid Battlemechs.

>>96159753
Not hard. One of Lancer's strengths is that it isn't hard to put together a game. If you've never been a GM before, you might take a look at the Solstice Rain module (follow the pastebin), if only for some examples.

>>96159963
"Yeah? Well, you know, that's just like uh, your opinion, man."
And that's fine. I don't think it's the best or even my favorite mecha game, but it has some strong points that help it get attention.
Like I told the other anon, it isn't hard to put a game together for people new to the system. You don't have to custom design every NPC, you can just use the templates straight out of the book and it will work okay. And if you've got system mastery, you can do a lot more with it.
Also, like you said, it wasn't "made in the 80's" or derived from wargames. So it has a different feel to it, and campaigns play out in a different way. That's a matter of preference.
While it isn't as crunchy as older games, it also isn't as rules-lite as some other recent games. It fits into a middle ground. That makes it accessible for a wider range of players.

So I wanted to make a setting where they invented mechs before they invented tanks, and so the tank ended up being the cool new scary weapon to surpass mechs, but I wasn't sure how to go about that. My best three guesses for how to go about that approach are:

1) Tanks are actually an ancient weapon from an era where warfare was less ritualized and more barbaric, and the setting transitioned into mechs as society became more refined and honorable, but now has to figure out how to fight against tanks again from an enemy that doesn't care about honor

2) The society relied on some sort of organic-technology, the mechs were actually partially organic in some way, and since nature has produce legs and arms, but has never produced a tank tread or turret, they just never invented such things until they started building proper full-machine weapons

3) The setting actually has giants in it, and the 'mechs' were actually just power armor for giants that was adopted for human use, and they never bothered with tanks before because it seemed easier to just put a human in a giant's power armor

>>96162801
I like the giants idea

>>96162801
All three could work. 2 is probably the most plausable while 3 is the most out there fun. Something that could be cool is that maybe the mechs themselves start to adopt some of the tank qualities in order to keep up, like long distance field guns or treaded feet. Could work as PC incentives.

>>96149893 (OP)
so do Mecha RPG Plot generators exist out there? or am i gonna be stuck having too use genric sci fi ones and just adopt whatever i roll into my game?

>>96164278
Mecha encompasses everything from fantasy like Escaflown to military dramas like 08th MS Team to space operas like Macross.

It's really hard to come up with something generic.

>>96162801
Mine has two reasons for the rise of mecha over conventional weapon platforms
1: The Mind Machine Interface. When you allow a person to control their machine at the speed of thought, it is easier to train someone to control a mostly humanoid body instead of a tank or a helicopter. So what if the body is thirty feet tall?
2: It is easier to bind the spirit of mythological creatures if the vessel resembles them, same with the spirit of heroes.

>>96149893 (OP)
GM here, on the TQ:
>Naturally the nature of mecha is war and war is human drama.
Hard disagree. Not drama but about war. Mechs have tons of uses beyond war if you have any sort of imagination. Just like many weapons and tools. Security, exploration, collections, sports, construction, technology and research, entertainment. Limiting mechs to war machine is either a setting or a skill issue.
Sure, if your setting is some grimdark sci-fi hellhole where everyone is in war 24/7 and it's all everyone thinks about then it's natural that mechs would be meant for war only, but anywhere else, they can fill WAY more roles than your average military weapon. Or maybe they're too expensive so only military forces use them. Anyways I find both of those situations very, very boring so it's not what I use in my setting. There are a lot of things people can do with "human but bigger"

Drama happens everywhere so that's not really exclusive to war and mecha. I like my games with a balanced tone, in the sense that not everyone is a crazy piece of shit 24/7 and there are good people and good things to care about and fight for.

>>96162801
Giants, always giants. That said if mechs are repurposed power armor for giants than the next logical step is making tanks as well, also repurposed tanks for giants. That way it better justifies mechs more in the setting as they are going to naturally more commonplace because they are cheaper to maintain, more portable, and only require the one pilot.
But if you have the money, logistics, and manpower. Than the main tank gun can straight up one shot any mech if you let it load it, and its will certainly shred through any would-be ace that is bold enough to assume its "secondary weapons" aren't better than anything a mech would have available.

>>96164796
Battletech is pretty much built around battlemechs but even in-universe mechs were used for hundreds of years for purely non-military purposes before they were made viable war machines via technological breakthroughs.

>>96164796
A game where the mech pilots are the equivalent of having a CDL license instead of being jet fighter grade certainly is appealing.

>>96164539
>1: The Mind Machine Interface. When you allow a person to control their machine at the speed of thought, it is easier to train someone to control a mostly humanoid body instead of a tank or a helicopter. So what if the body is thirty feet tall?
See, I like the idea of this, but in reverse.

Mechs are prevalent because of the mind-machine interface...but then AI that can control vehicles is invented. And AI has no need of 'familiarity', its coding prefers the most efficient platform for the job at hand, so you end up tanks and planes that have no need whatsoever for ergonomics or crew-comfort.

>>96164852
This is fun too though. A tank, built for giants, would naturally be fucking huge, so mechs would have a role as the 'infantry' of the setting

>>96164999
No one uses AI for weapons of war in my little autism homebrew, because it's far too easy to just with them. The lack of a soul makes them incredibly vulnerable to even the simplest of magic, since they are effectively just a pile of rocks tricked into thinking on a metaphysical level.
This is one reason for the explosion of MMI, because by linking the mind to the machine, the soul expands to fill the empty space, warding it against lesser magic. You can tell a pile of metal to rust quite easily, can't tell a person made of metal as easily.

>>96164539
I was really big on the idea of "remote" piloting where the pilot would essentially transfer their mind into the machine via a black box proxy and control it that way.

My justification was that non-Human forms can't be inhabited for long because it fucks with the pilots mind where as the humanoid machine was more naturally familair and allowed them to stay in that form longer.

>>96164918
my furfag modern day setting has mechs being used nearly everywhere after they were introduced because the tech that is used for them is super easy to reproduce and they use very common modern day tech and materials for all its other parts.

>>96165153
Your post reminded me of the Integration setting, where all the furries are macros that are the size of the human mechs, and the mechs were made specifically so that humans could interact with the macro furries face to face.

>>96164999
>A tank, built for giants, would naturally be fucking huge
Yes
>so mechs would have a role as the 'infantry' of the setting
Yes and no while being a mix of both. What I was suggesting is that mechs are mechs of the setting. Even while being repurposed power armor, theyre still a machine. You could have a mech that fullfills the role of a space marine. But a mech doesn't feel pain, it doesn't care if its dismembered, it doesn't even need to physically carry a weapon since it could have Intergrated weapons or its weapons are mounted on various locations of the body. If I was making this sort of setting, I'd have older mech be more general-purpose and more akin to power armor with a little man inside. So functioning hands that carries a main weapon that can be swapped out as roles change, with any sort secondary weapons or equipment being clear add-on packs. Meanwhile newer mechs are made with being more mechs in mind. Intergrated weapons are common, more likely to have weapons spread out across the whole platform, less human shaped overall designs. And definitely more specialized to specific roles. You can have absolute juggernauts who are effectively budget tanks, mobile Artillery, or even jetfighter-styled mechs like the ones from macross. Think Zaku vs Madcat

Also I was assuming OP wanted tanks to be somewhat rare. Like a super weapon from Ace Combat. Or at the very least, not something you would find far from a supply line.

>>96165189
I try to not make my setting feel like a fetish thing. It just has cute anthro people and that's kind of as far as it goes on that front.

>>96165065
That works well, although I find it removes a bit of the drama. Throwing your body into the fray, even if it's encased in whatever unobtainium the mech is made out of, is always more thrilling than death being just an annoyance.
>>96165153
"Boss, why is the bulldozer a cat girl?"
"Well, it's called a Cat, right?"
"Caterpillar, boss..."
"Welp, she's already paid for."
>>96165189
Isn't that the one with the giga bunny girls?
>>96165440
Filling your game with your fetish is fine. Just don't FOCUS on your fetish. Yes, the world has cute giant furries in it. You are mech jocks in that world. Mount up, you need to go do riot duty because plot.

>>96165520
>Isn't that the one with the giga bunny girls?
Yes.

>>96165520
>Throwing your body into the fray, even if it's encased in whatever unobtainium the mech is made out of, is always more thrilling than death being just an annoyance.

I agree so psychic trauma from the injuries your mech suffers would have been a thing.

What if there was actually a schism in a mecha-religion, with some people adhering to the humanoid form being perfect in and of itself, needing only mechanical upliftment, thus resulting in the creation of humanoid mechs with human pilots, while others saw the human form and mind as being limitations to be exceeded, creating stranger mechanical robots with different forms and artificial minds?

>>96165189
>so that humans could interact
uhum. "Interact"

>>96165751
Well, there's also the OTHER fun part of being a tiny man in a big robot...

Getting ripped out of your mech by said giant furries and reminded of how very small and helpless you truly after....

>>96165567
Shinji didn't lose control of his Eva and let it run amuck. He just entered autist rage mode because
>STOP HURTING ME!
goes a lot further when you are twenty stories tall. I do love a good sanity system in my game, because sometimes you need to remind your players that they aren't just playing with a pile of numbers on a sheet, it's a little make believe person.
>>96165751
>>96165764
This is why the last time I was allowed to design my own mech, it was power armor inside a gear inside a mecha that slotted into a transforming spaceship ala SDF-1 but smaller. When living in a mecha world, always be in the mecha!

>>96165153
>half the table are HMOFA enjoyers
>other half are early 2000s level of hate for furries
Who dare I appease?

>>96165948
Yourself, because you are running the game and there is never a shortage of players.

>>96165972
I normally get that. But overall I like my group and it's hard to form a Christian table.

Very proud, I used to have spider mechs in my setting; reorganizing it right now and I was able to save them from the chopping block

I dunno if I preferred the "what if mecha was just ceremonial and it actually sucked and tanks beat them all" guy over "what if mecha can be a space to explore my furry macro fetish?". Either way, it's clearly not about the mechs at all with either.

>>96166507
Do you not understand the concept that mecha can be used to explore ideas outside of just the mechs themselves?

>>96166507
Isn't MOST media using mecha just "ooh, cool fight!" filler to The Themes? Only one I can think of that I'm confident is primarily ABOUT the mecha is Metal Skin Panic.

>>96166507
>"what if mecha was just ceremonial and it actually sucked and tanks beat them all" guy over "
Not at all what was said.
>what if mecha can be a space to explore my furry macro fetish?
Not too far off from from pic related.

>>96166581
I mean according to that retard Macross would 'not be about the mechs' because of all the pop-star singing and culture stuff.

>>96166001
I get that, given this day and age of degenerates.
However, as a degenerate I ask you this: How much of Jesus's teaching encourages hatred? I get that there are certain groups who, through their actions, deserve all the hate in the world. However, I see no reason to hate someone simply because they wish to ride comfortably upon the mammoth busom of their titanic furry wife.
Just don't make it weird.

>>96166540
>>96166572
>>96166581
>>96166596
Please don't demean macross by comparing it to this
>>96165526
>>96165764
>>96165751
Look at this shit. Is that what macross is to you? "ooh what if a big furry pulled me out of my mech and swallowed me whole!"? Macross deserves better than that and you should be ashamed of trying to defend it with this "I'm just trying to think outside the box!" angle. Why don't you instead think outside of your cock cage?

>>96166581
>Not at all what was said.
Then I'm not talking about whatever you think I am, I'm talking about the guy posting in two different threads and also making other threads about the topic. It's not my fault if you haven't noticed it.

>>96166731
The fact that your mind can't comprehend the beautiful symbolism and ideas behind a human existing in a world of those with immense strength but being able to stand on equal footing with the power of machinery, yet still being reminded of the fragile truth behind said machinery, says a lot about you, and I don't think a mind as small as yours could truly appreciate macross.

Do you prefer rule heavy or light systems?

>>96166874
Light, but only because I'm an illiterate dumbass with ADD. I feel like my autistic side would prefer crunchy stuff if I could get another person to babysit GM me.

I just mentioned I have a system with furries but they're not fetishized or anything it's mostly a setting for mecha adventures.

>>96152706
Ah. Well, why would you vother with the Japanese version? A fan translated the rules a lottle while ago.

>>96166656
Most of the group is more passive. But the two camps are spearhead by two people who often butt heads over effectively everything. The pro-HMFOA is a headed by a Catholic who is politically moderate, loves older media, and mocks conspiracy theorists. He claims "There is nothing wrong with furries, just with lust. If there is sapient life out there, and despite all scientific odds is capable of procreation with humans. Then it would be a sign of God's will." The anti-furry camp is spearheaded by an out spoken non-denomination (Baptist) who is far-right, openly mocks old media, and actively watches conspiracy theory podcasts. His reasoning is "Having sex with beasts is degenerate and any alien lifeforms we meet are demons in disguise."

It sounds like a philosophical debate between weather you see furries more as humans or animals. But in truth, These two just can hardly ever agree on much.

>>96166788
You said that when your parents caught you beating off to starfox fucking a skyscraper.

>>96166507
Mecha being ceremonial =/= Mecha sucking

>>96167160
Things don't get relegated to purely ceremonial roles for no reason, anon. Either they're horribly outdated but kept for aesthetics, wholly impractical for anything that actually involves combat, shitty-but-impressive-looking, or wholly outside the society's ability to manufacture so there's only a small number around.

>>96167494
Neither of those things applies to jousting weapons.

>>96166963
Dude, Anti is going to cause some sort of party splitting hissy fit eventually. Just consider how Christian he acts, not how pious he talks.

>>96166963
>Catholic is a lying nonce
>Protestant so obnoxious it defeats his argument
The jokes write themselves

>>96171315
I don't think he's lying, I think he genuinely believes it. Both him and his brother like anthro, but neither is exclusive to it. When asked both say something along the lines of "I just like attractive women, and a furry is basically 90% human."

Are quad mechs cool?

>>96166894
I always heard that furry artists refuse to draw mechs and mecha artists refuse to draw furries
Also I would play a Star Fox game

>>96162303
That's a beautiful image

>>96172667
Drawing machinery and drawing soft organic features like fur are pretty different skillsets.

>>96172667
When artists begin their journey they make a oath

Either they will refuse to EVER draw armor and/or mecha-
Or, they will never draw furries and anthros.

...However.
There is a third type. ones that have chosen the impossible.
There are the artists that only draw mechs and furries.
The power they wield is beyond this world.

For the root of mecha- anthropomorphism, is the same that furries share in their core.

>>96172807
the autism that overlaps mechs and furfags is surprisingly close, they're just afraid to get near each other

>>96172807
>im a furry IRL
>I dedicated myself in elementary school too only ever draw mecha
>I cant actually draw antrhos worth a shit outside of vomit barf scrunkly queer webcomic style (kate wortz if you know what the fuck im even talking about)
>mean while im basically able too recreat most of the iconic shots from Gundam 0079 too near accuracy and draw scopedogs from memory
why did i fuck up specing out my life in the early years

where did all you fucking furfags come from

Issue 0 of Albedo had furry mecha concept art on the back cover, so there's probably an alternate universe out there where the Albedo TTRPG has mechs in it and fits here.
No more brother wars.