Thread 96157092

Legio At-a-rest edition

Previous Thread: >>96150900

>HH 3.0 Leaks
https://imgur.com/a/jYokLre
https://files.catbox.moe/98h6h7.pdf
https://gofile.io/d/cnJk0N
>Mech Leaks
https://imgur.com/a/lRaqKSw
>SA Gofile
https://gofile.io/d/YEEqBN

>New Edition upon us
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/setting/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>Thread FAQ (very old, remembers Age of Terra)
https://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8
https://pastebin.com/8riDmnhS
>30k TACTICA & TIPS
https://pastebin.com/Tm2P4QLp
https://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Age_of_Darkness-Warhammer_30k/2.0_Tactics/General_Tactics

『Adeptus Titanicus and Legions Imperialis』
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/legions-imperialis/
>List of Titan Legions with Badges and Colours
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17Jccq0V--SwJifLVLwbisYnQeqLlS2pMSiPbGXp1Brs/htmlview
>More lists
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_Titan_Legions
>What size magnets do I need?
5x1mm
>Tactics
https://1d6chan.miraheze.orug/wiki/Adeptus_Titanicus/Tactics

>Thread question:
As we see more competent people handle the Saturnine models have your opinions about them changed?

>>96157092 (OP)
who cares? the fat ugly saturnines aren't the thing that killed horus heresy 3rd. It's the unfixable dogshit rules, 3 year edition and paid dlc journals.

>>96157092 (OP)

Who cares about Saturnine. Where are the knights?

>>96157092 (OP)
>As we see more competent people handle the Saturnine models have your opinions about them changed?
To an extent. I think theyre more posable than I initially expected, and the conversions ive seen without the shoulders look rather baller, but I still dont really like the regular terminators and think the praetor looks good with specific poses/loadouts.

>>96157092 (OP)
>Tq
Nah. They still look stupid.
Not as stupid as the praetor or the dread but still pretty stupid

>>96157139
>conversions ive seen without the shoulders
Pics?

>listening to my mechanicum friend complain about not being able to fit 3 moiraxes and one of the unique mech prime detachments
>>96157092 (OP)
>tq
I liked them to begin with.

>>96157160
nta
That's pretty cool. I didn't realize the head was an extra bit

Is there a left handed fist?

>>96157092 (OP)
Saturnines are one of those marmite kinds of models. You love em or you hate em. Personally did 180. Before the reveals, saturnine was my least liked pattern in the art and concepts. But I do like how they pulled them off. We'll have to see if they displace the new cataphractii as my favourite armor once we see what they look like.

>>96157185
Sats are surprisingly well put together models. Like technically put together I mean, you might not like the aesthetic butyou can do A LOT with the poding which I really wasn't expecting from a modern GW kit.

>>96157194
Yes. From what I've seen you can have a fist in either hand. I think the only fixed things is that the hammer is right handed, axe left.

>>96157185
That head is from a nurgle model.

>>96157210
Nice

>>96157203
Agreed. When I saw that like *everything* has a ball joint I was pretty pleased. Ankles too.

>>96157160
9/Doombull

>>96157210
>I think the only fixed things is that the hammer is right handed, axe left.
We know that isnt true. Weve seen a left handed axe, its literally in the official model they showed.

>>96157220
I kind of want to do double fist just for the aesthetic of it

Question for Aux players (or just horde players in general) how do you build snd paint 80 guys and how long does it take you? My painting method is looking like it will take forever to get them done and thats before factoring in tanks, artillety, vets, command squads. Doublynso because I was using 2.0 values for my plans but james dropped a bunch of point values this eddition

Oh and PRAISE THE FUCKING DESIGNER that made the tactical rock OPTIONAL. GW designers, put up a big fucking sign in the office for you to remember. I'm tired of cutting rocks off my damn necron warriors.

>>96157224
Did you have a stroke? I just said the axe is left handed. Axe left. https://assets.warhammer-community.com/27-saturninetermkit-praetorsprues2-lqgjorajnt.jpg

>>96157092 (OP)
>TQ
Not really. The dumb proportions haven't changed, the dumb size hasn't changed, the dumb knee-fins haven't changed. the dumb warty fists haven't changed, the dumb legs haven't changed. The only good part of those termies is the heads, and no amount of posing or painting will fix them.

I did see an interesting pose that you can seemingly make either weapon look two handed thanks to all the ball joints.

Just run 5 of these instead of las rifle sections lmao

>>96157291
I'm going to convert a massive two handed pole axe for my praetor and have it count as the hammer and the axe. Paying full points for the upgrades of course.

>>96157291
Wish it wasn't being sold for $45

>>96157235
Depends what style, standard and look you wanna achieve. Airbrush is a must. In terms of speed and decent lighting look, airbrush black, then zenithal, then contrast. If you wanna do the classic dirty HH look, then drybrush. Clean up some details, use a touch of airbrush on any lighting sources, and you can get pretty good results.

A little tip for all the anons getting hung up on the 4 turns game limit:

Just continue playing after turn 4. Nobody is gonna hold a gun to your head and force you to stop at the end of turn 4. Back in my day, during 3rd/4th when the game played a lot quicker, we regularly kept playing after the official game turn limit when we had time left. Just because we were enjoying the game. It is the easiest thing to "houserule" out of everything.

Think outside the limitations set by GW from time to time. It are game rules, not the law.

>>96157320
Those guys are low key Baller

>>96157323
They'll inevitably flood ebay. Shit, that's how I got a spartan for like £25 new I shit you not.

>>96157291
Any pics of the other sprue?

>>96157344
Yeah, it's just a waiting game at this point. Just dealing with the typical "but I want it now"

>>96157332
To be Tha/tg/uy, the 4 turn limit incentivises aggression and focus on point scoring. But I'm sure you have a throughly researched list of the impacts on 3.0 units and gameplay from adding arbitrary numbers of turns, so go ahead, I'll wait

>>96157332
No one here has friends they play with, just acquaintances at the local hobby shop that will assume they're trying to gain an advantage by extending the game.

>>96157291
How would I convert it to hold a magical stave

>>96157348
They're all just on warcomm or google images.

>>96157235
Keep It Simple Stupid would be my number 1 recommendation frankly, restrain yourself to a few colours and 1 Wash, keep edge highlighting to a minimum.

For the auxilia specifically pick out 1 colour for the undersuit, 1 colour for the armour, 1 colour for the pouches and boots and 1 colour for all the technical gubbins. Then apply a wash.

Be very reserved with Edge Highlights. I only bother Highlighting the faces/helmets when I go horde but even that is optional.

The sarge and command models all have crests on their helmets, pick two colours which complement each other and do an alternating pattern on the crests. I'll call these the "regalia" colours for later.

Vehicles like tanks are pretty easy in the Excertus Imperialis style. Just prime grey, paint the metallic parts and then add your "regalia" colours somewhere to tie the rest of the vehicle to your range. You could also prime the tank whatever colour you want instead of grey but again, KISS you're gonna be painting a lot of these.

>>96157367
Just cut the head off the weapon and replace it with the head of the staff you want? I wonder if saturnine librarians, or librarians in other armor types will be a thing down the line...

>>96157320
>twice the price of a Lasrifle section before upgrades.

>>96157092 (OP)
Anyone know if its a cog sig, or a vox that lets you not have to do the full scatter on a barrage weapon.

>>96157379
>>96157326
Thanks, I'll keep those in mind. I do wish the eye lenses were a bit deeper but otherwise i love these guys

>>96157364
>the 4 turn limit incentivises aggression and focus on point scoring
I know, that is why I've greatly enjoyed playing the new core missions since Siege of Cthonia. Not to mention that playing a full 4 turns of 3000 points is quite the time commitment. Even experienced players on the clock during an event, playing just 2000 points, can struggle getting through the full game within 3 and a half hours. So I doubt 4 turns will be a real issue in the new edition.
But if the game plays smooth and quickly enough once everybody has the basics on lock, you can bet that our group here is gonna experiment with playing additional game turns.

>>96157366
That sounds kinda depressing honestly.

>love Dorn
>love Imperial Fists
>painting yellow doesn't activate neurons
/hhg/ got me motivated enough to try another test model for IF, the other day. Managing my shades of mustard isn't nearly as satisfying as other colors. I think I'm going to jump in as Sons of Horus because of the sea green

>>96157392
Cognis signum. Nuncio vox now allow another attempt to remove a status effect.

>>96157426
Are Cog snigs more widely available now?

>>96157394
Looks like you've picked white, black/dark grey, copper and silver? Those should work well enough as colours tho painting white over black to correct mistakes WILL be a pain in the ass.

>>96157387
I don’t think there’s anything big enough to communicate it as a staff

>>96157332
>extending time to score more good boy points
cringe
>tallying up the points and seeing who won/lost, then playing turn 5 as both forces attempt to retreat, with units getting downed suffering from effects in the next stage of the narrative campaign
BASED BASED BASED

>>96157430
Not really. Only the Siege Breaker has one iirc.

>>96157447
Ouch that kinda sucks ok.

>>96157409
Dig it.

>>96157425
Paint them black, with yellow gloves and faceplates

>>96157433
Yeah, I based them on the Armoured Grenadiers from Legend of the galatic heroes (the show made me want to play aux) i just went with wgite instead of light grey because its a bit more strikeing

>direct hit still scatters in the direction of the arrow

so direct hit is useless now?

>>96157235
I pick a color scheme that I can just spray prime, pick out details that can based without much effort and drybrushed/washed to finish it

>>96157461
Nta, looks good

>>96157461
Nice choice chad

>>96157468
Pretty much, so far.
A direct hit is just hitting with you BS now. Idk why the new dice have them. Maybe some different rules in the future will need them

>>96157436
I know y'all are going to call me a zoomer for this, but reminds me of the extractions in titanfall

>>96157490
Why would i call you a zoomer for something reminding you about an objectively great game that EA killed because they are retarded?

>>96157461
I honestly think LotGH was one of the Inspirations for the Solar Auxilia. Especially since the whole range was one guys side project at first.

anyone know how mech listbuild exactly? I see the detachments etc but for mech it confuses me slightly

apparently they get their own force org instead of the crusade detachment?

Brainstorming: 5 Assault Vets w/ hammer & shield + Land Raider = 480pts

27" setup move; + charge roll; hide T0 then turn on a dime to drop some death. I'd like to have one on each center-flank, to strike out.

Then some troops to bulk out, maybe some Terminators too

>>96157507
>putting the jumppack elites in a tank

>>96157521
Have you read the Deepstrike rules for melee armies?

>>96157554
nta
Enlighten me

>>96157582
Deep strike is limited to one unit per turn, from turn 2 onward, not allowed to charge after.

>>96157554
>spending ~1000 pts on 10 guys and 2 tanks because you refuse to play smart and deep strike ranged units
ok retard

>>96157595
Okay, you deep strike in some meltagunners instead. What does that do? You killed a tank? Shot up a bunch of terminators? Thats nice. What does it do for the wider state of the game? Do you think those dudes are surviving much longer? No? Weird that.
The benefit of melee elites is, beyond their greater damage output (which makes them better suited for taking out various high durability targets like terminators), the fact that they get you VP. Getting a unit of vanguard vets into the proper combat gets you +3VP. The thing that actively wins you the game.

Ranged DS does not do that, it is not a replacement to "melee elite delivery system".

>>96157425
Paint them Gold

>>96157620
>"The captain had set everything in motion, trusted to his second, a fopish noble dandy who liked getting fancy with his needle pistol and charnbal saber and his senior tank officer a geeky serious data driven type, hard to like, but good at what he does, the captain had one job now, to make the plan work, starve the enemy of leadership"
>"They had drawn the the Centurion, of the traitor XIIth, a big snarling brute in cataphractii armour, armed witb a chain axe in one hand and a power axe in the other"
>The Captain, Seargent and seven axe armed velataris stormed the snarling beast, the remainder of the party tried to provide fire support but could not find a clean shot, in a flash two of the velataris were slashed ti ribbons, a third had his head cut clean off, a fouth managed to wound the beast, he drew blood, even, a clean cut in the beasts thigh, not enough to bother him, and the beast avenged his wound by slicing the Velataris at the waist as he tried to follow up his bloe
>"The Seargent went in with his power fist, but was knocked to the ground snd met with a stomp to the chest, the captain tool his tuen, he pistioned himself infront of the remains of a stable wall, he brced himself and blocked both axes with the haft of his, the clatering of the chain axe was horrible, his ancle felt lile it was going to snap"
>"he lasted les than to seconds before giving up on his axe, he slid underneath it, doing so threw the beast of balance, he put his arm on the beasts back and stood to the side, he pressed his blast pistol into its belly and mag dumped it before steping off"

>>96157630
>>96157620
>"The beast went to fall to one knee but stopped, propping itself up with its power axe, guts spilling out, it chucked its chain axe and two handed its power axe and charged the captain but was guned down by a volley of las and volkite"
>"one arm on fire, the other he couldn't feel, his hearing fading, the captain passed out, the only thought going through his head was that would have been easier witj an inferno pistol. the traitor marines fled off world, leaving their mortal allies to be swept buy the auxilia"
>"the captain was promoted for his efforts in winning an unwibable battle he was promoted and gifted an inferno pistol from his marshals personal collection"

>>96157620
a sight (visual thing you see) to see, not site (physical location/place)

So they want me to waste a detachment slot on allies to even bring any solar aux with my marines?

>>96157619
If your not building at least 1 shooty vanguard unit to push VPs for captured objectives you are going to fall behind and DS a shooty squad is a fantastic way to do this or pushing a LR full of vangaurd melee into an objective turn 2 or 3 as you mentioned.

I really need to sit down with the list builder once it launches and scope out the best DS vanguard ranged units for this tatic but I fear not all forces will be the same.

>>96157646
Allies don't cost detachment slots. They're FREE.

>>96157092 (OP)
People from /aosg/ often use this image to troll /wfg/ about the poor performance of The Old World. If Space Marine and Horus Heresy is supposed to be more popular than Age of Sigmar, then how come Horus Heresy didn't even make this list?

>>96157646
Read nigga read

>>96157619
>you deep strike in some meltagunners instead.
No, I don't retard. First of all, if you're deep striking something with an inherent deep strike it's shit like termies and saturnines. Second of all, RAW units that exit from a deep-striking drop pod can charge.

>>96157658
I think people fail to realise that a large chunk of AoS' sales are models for other things
they are, for the most part, fantastic looking models that can serve as some great kitbash and conversion material

AoS sales does not mean that AoS as a game is popular

>>96157092 (OP)
>TQ
Proportions are still fucked so, no. I wish they were closer to death of hope saturnine tho.

How does this look for an allied Sparatoi auxilia detachment attached to my AL?

Allied aux: 605
Siege cohort:
Line command section - 65
Command tank - vanquisher cannon, flare shield - 180
2 lasrifle sections - 100
Malcador infernus - flare shield - 260

I would fucking kill to get marine command tanks

>>96157654
Vanguard shooting NEEDS to kill its target, the vanguard points for routing only come from melee combat.

Outside of thr master of signals giving vanguard 1 to whatever he wants its hard to get vanguard on a powerful shooting platform and if even 1 guy survives you get nothing.

Ira honestly less consistent points generation than vanguard melee.

>>96157521
Why not? Those tanks are (often) designed to transport terminators, that are the same level of bulky.
The traditional argument for "why you dont put jump troops in a transport" is that they dont need it, that whether through their own speed or DS they could get to combat reliably under their own power (vs footsliggers or terminators, who needed to get driven in). But with DS neutered (for melee armies) and the shorter time limit, why wouldnt you accept the "inneficiency" of a transport if it means your elite combat unit gets there a turn or whatever faster and unmolested by any early fire.

>>96157654
>shooty vanguard unit
Here are your options for shooty vanguard unit unless im missing something:
Angels tears (vanguard(2) iirc)
A unit with the master of signals nearby (for vanguard (1))
Terror squads (vanguard(2))
Contekar terminators (Vanguard(3))
Which of those are you deepstriking in to wipe shit out?

The fact simply is that even IF MoS vanguard HSS are a good option (which remains to be seen) they are in no way a replacement for vanguard(big) melee elites.

>>96157664
>Second of all, RAW units that exit from a deep-striking drop pod can charge.
No, RAW they cannot, as they are embarked on a unit that deep strikes in and then disembark. Unless there is some very specific wording with drop pods involved (which I do not believe there is, orbital drop vehicle just specifies they have to deep strike, it doesent offer some identical but differently named entry option) you cannot charge with such units.

>>96157658
HH models are not more popular than AOS, I doubt HH as a game is more popular than AOS either.

HH is a game for autists drunk on wargear and obsessed with converting. Its necromunda for space marines.

>>96157623
gold doesn't feel grimdark, and making gold into something grimdark would put me right back to yellows and oranges as my main palette

>>96157658
I like Battletech

>>96157678
Alas the vanquisher has been nerfed. I cannot bear to look at it anymore. Please take something else instead.

>>96157658
Look man all I play is warcry and mostly underworlds when im not scheduled for lengthy narrative games. Neither of those are on that list so dont really think about it too much.

>>96157664
>if you're deep striking something with an inherent deep strike it's shit like termies and saturnines
Also, onto that:

>DS in terminators
You might well do that. But its not for their wonderful ranged potential. Even the most ranged oriented DS terminators (contekar) do not have some giant damage output (especially compared to their melee output). (terminators deep striking in to target poorly defended objectives/threaten whatever tactical/despoiler/breacher squad is holding them is probably going to be a thing, but its not going to be done using their firepower, but with a charge in a subsequent turn)
>Saturnines
Are tied to a 260pts praetor. You CAN do it, but you almost certainly wont. Its also not really important for this discussion because they have no vanguard, line, or any other scoring rules. Saturnines are a support piece/specialist, theyre not a game winner.

>The Soul Drinkers were created by Rogal Dorn during the Second Founding following the Horus Heresy. The Chapter was formed primarily from the remaining fleet based shock attack elements of the Imperial Fists Legion. At its founding, Dorn also presented the Chapter with one of its oldest and most revered artifacts - a weapon known as the Soulspear
Think they'll reference this in The Scouring books or no?

>>96157320
>Officer of the Line...
>...(Auxilia Captain only)
Well yeah. You cannot have 0 Aux Captains in the Tactical Command Section. What, if he gets sniped your auxiliar detachment vanish or something?
Just what was Officer of the Line (X) meant to do originally, then?!

Plastic Ogryns confirmed?

>>96157700
Demolisher it is then I suppose :(
I'm mostly taking it to drive along my flamethrower so I guess it makes sense to have something similarly close ranged
Thanks for the feedback anon

>>96157723
as soon as your mum shows up for the modeling

>>96157714
Unlock X aux detachments instead of 1

>>96157619
>>96157654
>>96157681
The whole change to scoring mechanics and game length is so fucking cracked.

Its just a game of spam the giga high vp options as hard as possible or you physically can't win.

>>96157658
Anon I don't want HH to become big and successful. I want it to remain a cozy niche tabletop wargame, that never shows up on that list.
There have already been too many tourists coming in and ruining our hobby.

>>96157723
They got confirmed the moment they got on the front cover of Liber Auxilia.

I kinda hope they get options honestly, i want to be able to strap flamethrowers to their arm stumps instead of claws.

Or maybe giant power flails, that could be fun too.

>>96157737
Those giga high VP options are almost always less efficient at their job than just "model that does that but doesent score". So it will probably (possibly) balance out. Someone who brings a load of high scoring vanguard units might struggle to actually win combats vs an opponent who brought the more powerful non-scoring variants to just defend the tacticals.

>>96157723
I figure everything in the core Solar Aux liber is probably being released in plastic this edition, even the fliers

When would they even drop new kits?
I also hope they aren’t abandoning resin stuff.

>>96157760
Its a balancing act for all armies. Thallax are looking cracked as all hell but they're too fast for a tech priest to keep up with.

While with the auxilia all their power options are strapped to tanks which can't score and their line infantry is made of paper.

>>96157793
They're abandoning resin for generic units, in the future the only resin will be legion exclusives or legion upgrade kits.

>>96157795
Veletaris storm sections look very scary desu. They will butcher unprepared marine armies. On a 5+ they are Ap2 2W with two attacks each at only 11ppm. Scary fuckers. The downside of course is that the fights they lose they will often lose really fucking badly. Dont put them up against deathshroud.

>>96157799
GW has already said that even legion specific units will be plastic in the far future.

>>96157807
Where

>>96157690
I went back and checked the libers. I forgot ashen circle (vanguard 3, suppose they count). Angels tears are also Vanguard (3), and if all of them can throw their rad grenades they might be kinda nuts.

>>96157760
It's a problem BECAUSE they are balanced around line and vanguard stats. It means missions that don't revolve around holding magic circles imbalanced, and also makes it harder to have a longer game.

>>96157739
>There have already been too many tourists coming in and ruining our hobby.
I wish it was the tourists that were ruining our hobby.
The biggest threat to HH is from GW blowing it all up every three years.
The gatekeeping we should be doing is gatekeeping edition changes, by (ideally) developing community rules, or, more likely, refusing to buy or play new edition rules.
There is actually a decent chance of doing this, since the newer rules are trash, and not much backporting is needed since GW are mostly replacing Forge World resin kits with plastic kits, rather than actually adding new units.

>>96157838
posted it again award

>>96157834
I would see your point if the game hadnt been balanced around objective play for like two editions now. Although I suppose it could be seen as "well now it means you cant deviate from that norm" point, which is technically true. Same goes for the length thing too to an extent.

>makes it harder to have a longer game
Maybe. But which direction does it go? Do longer games make vanguard units stronger, with more time to score, or do they make them weaker since you give more time for dedicated(non scoring) units to outperform them at combat roles and obtain battlefield control for the other guy?

Ultimately the game is balanced around the things it is balanced around, I dont think its a very fair or valid complaint to say "but if those things werent there it wouldnt be balanced", because they are there. If those features fail to actually result in a balanced game? Then thats the problem, not that they are intended for a specific paradigm.

Ultimately all playstyles are balanced around constraints. Board size, objectives vs killpoints, game length (even six turns is in a way an arbitrary constraint), it all has to ultimately revolve around those limitations

>>96157806
Veletaris are still made of paper, they just do damage unlike lasrifles.

The storm axe is honestly one of the games stronger melee weapons. S+2, AP3 D1 with breaching and shred 5+ as a 3 point upgrade is insane.

Veletaris mangle a lot of units in melee they just get mangled themselves, I2 means they're hitting before powerfists and at the same time as thunder hammers, anything with a power weapon butchers them but even a few surviving dudes take bites outta shit.

They're sorta anti meta honestly. Everyone wants to prepare their assault specialists to fight terminators so they load up on PFs and THs but those units aren't great into storm sections.

Unless they're WS5, WS5 still kicks their ass but thats the case for almost every WS4 unit in the game. Best you can do into WS5 is take a master sargent with a powerfist and go full Ork.

>>96157891
Its internally fine yeah, the whole edition has changed it to be more 40k like with faster paced bumrush to objective circles and just duking it out for control for a couple of turns.

But some people have just said 'just ignore the 4 turn limit' but its not as simple as that, due to the other changes.

>>96157813
During an interview on one of the big warhammer reveal streams, one in 2024 iirc.

>>96157589
>one unit per turn
Bruh, what the fuck.

>>96157914
Jokes on them. I converted from plastic kits.

>>96157914
Alot could happen between now and then. Like a new angron entirely in resin.

>>96157931
Based and kino.

>>96157923
Welcome to where everyone else has been the past two weeks. Balancing deepstrike was too hard for them to they decided to make it a non factor.

>>96157923
and can arrive anywhere outside 1" of enemies and impassible. They literally said "deepstrike is for scoring, shooting, and/or move blocking only"

Even the Master of Descent is best with Multi Melta Sky Hunters. GW decided to not even try to make deepstrike interesting. They could have just had scatter and required to ball up but nooooo.

>>96157910
Yea, that all sounds about right. Although I feel it pertinent to mention once again that veletaris are 11ppm. They cost as much as a despoiler. And while they do actually lose that combat/go even there, their high scoring potential and ability to royally fuck up some of the most expensive and elite melee units is worth respecting.
Just avoid contekar with heavy flamers for the love of god. t3 4+ does not go well into s5 ap4.

Frankly a lot of militia (and even admech) stuff seems like its very "Meta reliant". Generalist/anti marine lists wont have good answers for them, but dedicated lists will have very good solutions. Take charonites, those dudes are fucking monsters for the cost, 40pts gets you 4w and 4 D2 attacks that breach (ap3 normally). They dont die to thunder hammers, they dont die to power fists, they dont die well to lascannons or even meltaguns. Theyre great vs the usual marine vs marine answers.

They do however only have 4+ armor, and will vaporize in a hail of autocannon fire. A marine list designed to fight SA will have very good answers (or can have very good answers) to anything SA bring, but the advantage to the SA list is that most players play marines, while very few play SA. So most lists wont be skewed towards fighting veletaris and charonites, but instead towards killing terminators and veterans (mind you lightning claws probably do fine vs both SA melee units)

>>96157806
I think their issue will be you need to bring a transport to get them up the board, and I don't think either are good. An arvus lighter with 12 is 217+, and 12 are very liable to get punked by an overwatch, even if it is just tacticals. A full dracosan is creeping on 382 points with just axes, which yeah, you should fuck up regular marines, but plenty of things will do that for that many points
without having to be scared of bolter fire. Maybe if the plan is to just throw 150 axe men on the battlefield?
>>96157910
It feels to rely on them you need a transport, weight of bodies, and to have tagged no reactions on the unit you want to charge. Which seems like way more trouble than it's worth.

>>96157947
Are there any terminators that benefit from shooting at close range? Barring combi melta spam.
IW don't really need to be all that close with their missiles.

>>96157937
You really think that GW would stop selling character models between now and ten years in the future, when they've finally made plastic kits for all the legion agnostic models.

>>96157958
Shaturnine termies have those AP 3 flamers. But investing at least over 400 points just to maybe flame a 100 point tactical squad sounds like a bad investment.

>>96157956
The cohort benefit lets you charge out of dracosans, so I could see that combo being potent. Sure, its pricy, but its basically a budget land raider with the flare shield. Give it a battle cannon and its not harmless either once it gets your veletaris onto the point. Send them in to kill tacticals/breachers/despoilers/regular terminators (or hell, theyll probably get decent value even into some of the super elite expensive ones, I imagine justaerin dont want to fight them very much) and then battle cannon people once thats done.

This talk of storm sections just makes me appreciate ogryns. 120 points, 15 s7 ap3 breaching 5+ attacks at ws4 i2 on the charge with great cool and leadership, expendable, t5, and a fnp.

>>96157947
You can't join the master of the descent to jetbikes, he's infantry they're calvary

Is “great at gunning down solar auxilia” in all these reviews and previews not just code for “shit”?

>>96157973
Yea, ogryn seem like a blast.

>>96157977
SA might be a real army this edition. So its a legitimate tactical niche.

>>96157965
The point I was trying to make is that a dracosan with storm section has very similar cost to an lr with 5 cataphractii / tartaros and I think the storm section would get demolished in that scenario.

>>96157461
I want to like the SA Cohort that allows Vanguard units the ability to do a regular charge after disembarking a non-Assault transport...but it seems so lacking?
There's only 3 Vanguard infantry in that list (Veletarii Command, Storm Veletarii and Flamer Veletarii).
But they are M6". Say they do a disordered charge...so what? They miss out on 1" set up, and that's it.
1. Axemen don't have a laspistol to volley with
2. Volkite Veletarii don't have a melee weapon to charge with
3. Flamer Veletarii don't have an Assault gun to volley with
4. Bayonet Lasriflemen don't have Vanguard to benefit from the rule. Neither do Ogryn.
Am I missing something?

>>96157992
I think the generic line infantry marine unit going up to 60 bolter shots is rough for solar infantry.

>>96157993
I am pretty sure storm sections absolutely mangle tartaros/cata terminators.

40 veletaris attacks, 20 hits, 10 wounds (7~ breaches). 3~ terminators dead.
10 terminator attacks, 5 hits, 4~ veleraris dead. Each veleraris is 11pts, each terminator is like 40.

Even if you allow for volley fire (which will defo kill some) veleraris just trade very cost effectively into terminators (that arent loaded out with twin claws)

>>96157977
Anon solar aux are mostly in plastic and their rules aren't hot dogshit and actually fun, they were already popular as allies and only going to get even more popular now, especially among disgruntled guard players

>>96157977
Only because the plasma gun exists and has a dedicated fire mode for shitting on Auxilia infantry with zero risk to yourself while still working fairly well into space marines.

All other anti auxilia weapons are either overcosted or just bad when used on marines, Plasma guns were balanced and priced to fight marines and are also incidentally extremely good against auxilia.

>>96158022
It was astonishing to see how many people picked up SA after they got plastic models, despite their absolute dogwater rules in 2.0

>>96157941
>>96157923
its even funnier because it has horrific scaling for game size.

1500pt small game? Still 1 unit.
6000pt mega game? Still 1 unit.

>>96157695
>he doesn't into burnt gold spattered with blood grimdark style

C'mon man

>>96158034
Personally I think guardfags are all cancerous, even more so when they insist on playing their muh regular human grit in the game that is literally fucking about space marines vs. space marines. They should be banned or allies only.

>>96158038
No worries, GW will introduce a reaction that allows you to deep strike additional units in a tactica journalis! That will be 60 bucks please :^)

>>96158050
>Master of pods
>Mole master

>>96157490
Titanfall is over a decade old lil gup

>>96158054
>Not master of steel rain

Any list building sites updated to 3.0 yet?

>>96158004
The real advantage is being able to double up on Veletaris Tericos, every Veletaris Command section then gives you 2 prime elite slots, 2 regular elite slots, 2 support slots and 4 heavy transport slots.

Then you can take master sarge on the prime elites and get 2 WS 5 A 3 Power fist Sargents without needing 2 Command sections.

Stick the powerfist sarges in axe squads and fill the other elite slots with volkite or flamer sections.

Or just leave them empty and spam WS5 power fist sargents.

>>96158042
the red part is the fun part, why would i waste time on yellow?
yellow is like sand I don't like sand.

>>96158073
Hopefully never. The more brainlets that are gatekept the better.

>>96158017
Here's the way I see it. 5 combi bolter + power weapon cata will
>kill 2 storm section on volley fire, 4 on overwatch
>kill 3 with sword or lance, 4 with axe or maul
The storm section will
>attack back with 12-15 models
>12-15 hits
>4-5 breaches
>2, maybe 3 dead termies
At which point the storm section loses combat and get blasted off the board. If you have equal or better initiative, you come out on top.

>>96158047

The Horus Heresy setting was originally conceived of as Titan vs. Titan, not marines.

>>96157958
That can also deepstrike? Probably Deliverers when they come back. Regular combi bolters are 4 shots now too. Combi volkite seem the best for dakka.

>>96158131
Rock Paper Scissors.

Fist terminators vs axe terminators vs auxilia.

>>96158034
>$60 for 10 regular human mooks
>$80 for 20 more Death Guard marines
Easy choice

Painted some carapace weapons for Xestobiax.
Even recasted the 3-d print lines were noticed.

>>96158004
They'll fight at I2 instead of I1 at least

>>96157658
Anon that list is garbage. Notice how it has whatever the fuck Bones is but no Bolt Action/Warlord Games line. It's a third party bumfuck US distributor survey not a comprehensive global sale list.

Biggest thing holding me back from SA is simply the command. We have the 8mm version in LIMP of the old command squad and marshal. Why the hell is the new tactical command section trying to pass itself off as the old one when they're not even in the same type of armor.

>>96158292
Warlords isn’t even that popular

>>96157853
still no actual counterargument award

"It can also be used to build a Legate Marshal, accompanied by four Lifewards". I seriously hope they change that if/when they release a plastic version of the old marshal's squad as veletaris command.

>>96158131
>>96158017
Also, I need to remark on the limitations of the scenario. A storm section interacts positively with certain loadouts of certain legion's terminators, but are threatened by essentially every gun in the game. Meanwhile terminators cost similar with a transport and require specific dedicated response.

>>96158305
Maybe down in El Paso it isn't Paco but in Europe Bolt Action is massive.

>>96158012
Eh, it is and it isn't. Lasrifles have longer range than bolters and lasrifle auxilia start at 50 points for 10 with an extra 10 at 4 ppm.

Vox interlock and vexila are all 5 point upgrades and both are basically mandatory. You can get 20 auxilia lasrifles with vox and Vex for the same price as 10 naked tacticals.

On a per point basis tacticals need to kill twice their number in auxilia if we're comparing units directly. Lasrifles aren't worried about tacticals they're worried about getting vapourised by AP4 blasts which are super common.

>>96157332
every point cost on the game is set for a game where there's only 2 or 3 turns of melee total. The very second you change it to a 6-7 point game all of the sudden the point costs of everything are entirely wrong. Indirect artillery efficiency skyrockets, justaerin terminator types skyrocket as they can sweep 5 tactical squads off the board then your army can score every point in the 2nd half of the game, the value of transports nosedives as it becomes the optimal stat to deploy away from caps, shoot every transport dead, let them have the objectives on turn 1, then slowly walk around gunning every single squad that was in the transports dead and regain every objective for turn 4-7 when the enemy have been eliminated off the board.

GW has ruined the game with 4 turn limit and gaming groups aren't going to put 5000 hours rewriting points costs for 600 different units for a 6-turn or 7-turn game to rebalance the effects. So "just keep playing" is nothing but retard tier 50 IQ cope speak from the brain damaged children.

>>96158298
I really wish we'd get a new command squad for a marshal and friends in fancy gear like this. The current command squad works just fine for representing captains or troop masters but falls far short of representing a marshal in all his gaudy artificer armoured glory.

Death Guard
>Siege Breaker - 115
>Storm Battery
>4x Phosphex Rapiers - 300
>4x Phosphex Rapiers - 300
>1x Vindicator - Magna Laser - 160
>1x Vindicator - Magna Laser - 160
1035

Convince me not to do this.

>>96158427
I can't because I'n literally doing the same for my night lords

>>96158427
I refuse, bring 8 phosphex bombs and shell the shit out of the enemy anon.

>>96158427
Does phosphex still have lingering death

>>96158427
Ah, a worthy opponent!
Dark Angels
-Primary Detachment (1010)
[PRIME] Optae with bolter, chainsword, meltabomb = 55 points
--Prime benefit: Paragon of Battle
Centurion with bolter and terranic greatsword = 95
[PRIME] Tactical Squad, sgt with bolter and power fist, 19 legionaries = 215 pts
--Prime benefit: Interdiction cadre
-Stormwing Muster Detachment
[PRIME] Tactical Squad, sgt with bolter and power fist, 19 legionaries = 215 pts
--Prime benefit: Interdiction cadre
-Stormwing Muster Detachment
[PRIME] Tactical Squad, sgt with bolter and power fist, 19 legionaries = 215 pts
--Prime benefit: Interdiction cadre
-Stormwing Muster Detachment
[PRIME] Tactical Squad, sgt with bolter and power fist, 19 legionaries = 215 pts
--Prime benefit: Interdiction cadre

>>96158427
Take 2 phosphex arcuitors you coward

>>96158465
Lingering death is gone sadly. Though, on the other hand, I've never met any person that actually made some extra markers for it to be able to actually use the rule.

>>96158252
Disordered charges do not impose an initiative penalty. That's Status effects.

How do Apothecaries work on the table.

There's like 3 fucking rules entries for 4 different things, a reaction, and a special characteristic test. Like what the fuck do you do when there's an Apothecary in the unit.

>>96158427
>Siege Cohort
>Artillery Command Section
>Ordinance Master with Charnabal Sabre and plasma pistol, Veteran with lasriflex7, Veteran with lasrifle and command vox, Veteran with lasrifle and Vexila. 120 points.
>Artillery Terico
>Medusa Artillery Tank x3, 420 points.
>Artillery Terico
>Medusa Artillery Tank x3, 420 points.

>Total 960 points.

Might as well go back to 1.0 at this rate, Blasts are back.

>>96158619
poor little pardo just keeps catching L's

Took the plunge, got 12 saturnine terminators off ebay for 33 bucks per 3, just need to get 4 saturnine praetors once the prices drop off ridiculous to surplus levels for my saturnine praetor and command squad

>>96158530
I just made photocopies of the template and used those.

>>96158427
>>96158471
>>96158624
>Master of Descent 105
>Saturnine Praetor with teleport transponder 260
>6-man Saturnine squad, 6 particle shredders, 3 heavy disintegrators 440
>Total 805 points
FIREPOWER
TAKING LIVES

>>96157838
>blowing it all up every three years.
This. Edition churn is something only GW can get away with because of marketing. If normal deepstrike and grandfathered options become a community staple I can see 3e being evergreen. Or a bastardized 2.9 fork. Anything but 4e blowing it all up again.

>>96158624
Auxilia Rapiers get Mole Mortars in LIgma, could be fun if they get them in HH too.

Of course Auxilia still get Cyclops demo vehicles in LIgma too so thats probably a crapshoot.

>>96158689
GW tend to invalidate your old books on 6-9 year cycles. 1e to 3e AOS was all one system while 8th and 9th ed 40k were all 1 system.

You don't have to worry about 4.0, you need to worry about 5.0

>>96158715
>The Last AoS edition invalidated everything
>The Last 40k edition invalidated everything
>The Last HH edition invalidated everything
>But GW, the paragons of mercy, wouldn't possibly think of doing it again. Definitely not in the system that's never been forward compatible.

>>96158715
WTF are you talking about? Each edition ended up like replacing the other. We have not had iterative editions in a any GW system in like....fuck a long as time i cant remember the last time we got an iterative edition.

>>96158715
Or, hear me out, no. Unless 4.0 is them making a golden 2.9 I'm over it.

I hope characters on bikes get firestorm and implacable advance. If they do I'm going to make a librarian on bike, chuck him in an outrider squad, and try to throw out 2d6 + 24 shots at something twice a turn.

>>96157681
>Vanguard shooting NEEDS to kill its target, the vanguard points for routing only come from melee combat.
Booo! ...but maybe good? Imagine if Vanguard units could proc VP by having units fall back, instead of being forced to fully kill the target. Wouldn't that be opressive?
Doomsayers say melee is already diminished enough - Vanguard working on ranged fall backs would be the final nail on Melee's coffin :(

>>96158736
8e was a big change. 9e wasn't. 10e was a big change. 11e probably won't be.

>>96158736
We'll see if they keep doing this when 11th ed 40k comes out next year. If that comes with indexes then you're right, if it doesn't thrn you're wrong.

>>96158743
You can't remember 9th ed 40k, 3rd ed AOS or HH 2.0?

>>96158688
Across 2 turns becuase satties sent anti grav and only get to shoot 1 AP3 template.

>>96158757
>>96158764
But the pattern already broke. If the idea is Invalidate > Expand > Invalidate > Expand, then 3.0 should've been the Expand for HH, and it wasn't. HH just had 2 editions in 3 years which both invalidated their prior edition, which according to this "pattern" doesn't happen.

>>96157160
Wait, you mean we can just leave the shoulders off and they suddenly look cool as fuck?

>>96158776
>7th ed, 1.0, 2.0

>>96158782
?

>>96158764
This is a really retarded take. They sold index rules at 10e launch, or course they'll have indexes. That doesn't preclude another update for every flavor of Space Marine too.

>>96158789
They didn't sell indexes for 9th.

>>96158775
t1
>mod hovers over to objective while keeping in cover
t2
>deepstrike the blob into your weakspot
>they can still shoot + react during your turn

>>96158793
Which edition of HH could you use the old books for?

>>96158774
>HH 2.0?
HH2.0 was NOT an iterative update.

>>96157507
It's a lot of points to get worse results than cataphractii, all so you can get 5 more inches of movement

5 T4 2W 3+ 5++ (melee only) models are going to die pretty horribly

>>96158688
God the Sat deepstrike strat is expensive.

Imagine needing to take a 260 point Praetor just to deepstrike morbidly obese cataphractii.

>>96158799
1.0

>>96158818
So by the 2-edition cycle, 3.0 should be backwards compatible?
So the whole concept falls apart either way?

>>96158688
disintegrators are trash as you almost do as much damage to yourself as the enemy with Overload 2

>>96158802
Seemed like it to me unless you played thousand sons.

>>96158862
If you can't play your old codex/army list/liber with the new core rules (a la 8th into 9th) it's an invalidation.
The whole genesis of all this was books being invalidated. 2.0 invalidated all the prior books.

>>96157681
For marines. If you're mech you can point 40 s5 ap3 breaching 4+ shots with vanguard 3 at something. Aux can make a game of seeing how many 9ppm vanguard 3 heavy flamers they can get to shoot in one turn.

>>96158828
>3 double plasma saturnines have a 1/6 chance to deal a single wound to themselves every shooting phase.
>3 double disintegrators will almost certainly kill one saturnine a shooting phase.
>Disintegrators are more expensive than plasma bombards.

What the fuck did GW mean by this, I expect this sort of shit from orks lol.

>>96158910
Just don't miss, dumbass.

>>96158884
>taking the 9 ppm T3 W1 SAV4+ heavy flamers.
>not taking the 23 ppm T5 W2 SAV3+ heavy flamers.
God I love sentinels.

>>96157931
Post pics pls

>>96158922
Whatever floats your boat anon. I just don't want to take out a second mortgage to buy 50 sentinels.

>>96158910
God I wish double plasma didn't look so retarded because fist/Plasma is such a schizophrenic loadout despite looking way cooler. I wonder if I can get some Contemptor Dreadnought plasmas and rig them up like broadsides instead to rep dual plasma

>>96158910
Both are Overload(2), Disintegrators are just always AP2.

>>96158944
If you're not willing to spend £32 on 32 points of light sentinels then you are a far smarter man than I am.

I'm honestly annoyed I can't give command sentinels melee weapons, that coukd have been pretty funny.

>>96158952
I wish you could model double fist so I could shoulder mount a disintegrator / plasma.

>>96158965
65 usd for 46 points for me.

>>96158964
>1 shot per bombard
>6 bombards
>2 overloads
>special shield gimmick means Overload breaching only triggers on a 6
>1/3 chance of a breach
>4++, 1/6 chance to unsaved wound.

>>96157291
>>96157160
Wonder if the plugs behind the arms are big enough for one to mount a second pair of arms with some converting. Then you can have a four-armed saturnine.

>>96158980
>Living through your own shooting phase
The Destroyer iconography is there for a reason anon.

>>96157727
good one haha

>>96157658
>>96158292
That list is only for certain single-location indie stores in NA, and even then only for those that bothered to follow out the survey.

>>96158292
bones sells more minis than bolt action in the US. It isn't a game, they're just used for Dungeons&Dragons type games (same as the 3rd most popular miniature line of D&D minis) The FLGS nearest to me has half a shelf of Bones miniatures and has quit GW entirely because GW makes less profit. (and horus heresy isn't even 10% as profitable as 40k which sells badly enough to no longer be sold at most average stores in the US who have just dumped them and focus now on Magic the Gathering)

Horus heresy is an absolute non-starter. Never met someone in my life who actually plays it in person, only people on the internet.

I keep looking at pyroclasts and I can't figure out if they're good or what even to do with them. They're 10ppm more than a heavy flamer marine but are uber tanky and the flamer is better.
They are 7ppm more than a meltagun marine but the pyroclast gun is worse.
They get implacable advance but at 1 hand weapon attack they don't want to charge most things. They all have melta bombs so they're good at charging vehicles. They don't have vanguard or line so they aren't good at scoring.

>>96159126

What size town do you live in? I live in the Sacramento metro and it's fairly popular, though not as much as 40k. Legions Imperialis is more popular than HH tho.

Is there a marine kit that has a lot of empty hands? I need a lot, both left and right.

>>96159184
Not in plastic, they're molded on the weapons for basically everything

>>96159184
Lol, no. GK terminators got empty left hands. That's about the only one I can think of off the top of my head. The rest are individual pieces, mainly moulded onto the arms.

>>96159211
GK kits are so fortunate in all the bits they get. Does remind me though, Custodes have more empty hands than most, maybe some of theirs will be workable.

I think I got what Saboteurs are for. Infiltrate may not let them charge in the first turn (or deploy anywhere in the enemy DZ either), but a Master of Signals could give them Line (1). That's a dude who may cost as much as a Tactical squad, but cannot be targetted unless identified, scoring extra. Idk feels like a thing?

Kinda unuseable until the PDF unlocks the old options, but a single meltabomb can't kill anything anymore and Sweeps are gone, so it's not like it's going to be like before

>>96159270
Neat. I had no idea MoS line toggle had no range.

Got my veteran tac squad done. Gonna try them out this Sunday.

>>96159311
>done
>completely unpainted

>>96159283
I'm not seeing any range. Not even a requirement for line of sight; if you pass the Int test one of your (same legion) units gains Line 1

>>96159325
Poor word choice on my part, I finished assembling them.

I hadn't really thought of it before, but disintegrator rifles are just outright worse into w1 marines. And that's just damage, before secondary considerations like blowing yourself up, worse armour save targets, assault, and points cost.

>>96159378
AP3 disintegration is the watered down version available to the legions; the Emperor is hoarding the good quality Adrasite

>>96159378
No they aren't.
vet bolter, 1.67 hits, 0.833 wounds, 0.28 unsaved
regular tac bolter with fury, 2 hits, 1 wound, 0.33 unsaved
vet dis-rifle, 0.833 hits, 0.69 wounds, 0.69 unsaved
killing 7 marines is definitely not less than killing 3 marines for a 10man squad.

>>96159464
I think the adrasite is gonna end up being ap2 3 damage just to make sure everything with a disintegrator is good at blowing itself up.

>>96159508
Volkite charger, forgot to specify. Also your math is off. Dis rifle is s4.
0.5 < 2 * 2/3 * 1/3 + 2 * (2/3 * 1/3)^2

How do you crack heavy armor now? Feels like there's no good way to deal with AV14 aside from.. stunlocking it with glances? (god this system is retarded)

>>96157332
Kevin Rountree here. This is, in fact, not permitted, and I will personally come to your domicile and shoot you if you attempt to do so.

>during 3rd/4th ...we regularly kept playing after the official game turn limit
And you are lucky Gav's lazy, because at the time it was his job to travel to your domicile and shoot you if you attempted to do so. But don't worry, we're making certain that he works through his backlog so quickly as possible.

>>96159558
What army?

>>96159545
oops, yeah used the strength of the heavy dis, I won't be using dis-rifles because they raise the price of the sacrificial bolter marines, when the squad exists as a delivery mechanism for them to farm terminators with S6 AP2 Dmg2.
They might've been a consider if it was +2 point per model, not at +5 points each, considering the overload issue.

>>96157461
DIE KAISER HORUS, LONG LIVE THE ISERLOHN REPUBLIC!

>>96159558
Back in 2.0 I thought similar. "Can't explode a Land Raider? It sucks". Then I stunlocked a LR with autocannons. It was fine. The other guy didn't lose his LR in one go, which would've been infuriating, and I got to nullify that LR.
Wouldn't mind giving it a chance

>>96159558
Rapier battery with laser destroyer, vindicator (either option), sicaran omega, cerberus, drop pod melta if your opponent is bad at screening.

>>96159558
Blasting your opponents mbt with he 20mm and leaving them totally dazed and confused is how it should work.

>>96159643
the supreme kinetic energy of.... meltaguns? lascannons? Pretty sure those work by transfering heat, not kinetic energy to the target.

This guy came out much better without the cape

>>96159175
What if you look at them like an extremely resilient meltagun TacSupport squad? One that kills termies fine, vehicles still good enough, and can take on hordes?

>>96159558
>How do you crack heavy armor now?
You tell my ex-wife her alimony payment is inside the tank lmao.

>>96159650
They make the levers and buttons too hot to touch

>>96159697
Fucking lmao oof

>>96159682
his knee appears to be melting

>>96159732
maybe he's just excited to see you

>>96157160
>Saturnine terminators have small shoulder pads under the giant shoulder pads

>>96159690
My initial thought was putting them in a drop pod to go chuck at something and I guess they're less unlikely to get intercepted into oblivion at least. They can blast things on volley fire and are tanky so if you chuck line on them with MoS they could be annoying.

>>96159332
I don't know if it's addressed elsewhere but could you put it on a deep strike unit?

>>96159682
He'd look even better without those moldlines.
Drill the fucking barrels you faggot.

anyone get a primarch recently from blacklegionmarket? how was it and how long did it take?
Can't find reviews on jewtube or google because GW copyright strikes any vids about recasters.

I think it would probably be better if the active player didn't score controlling objectives at the end of their turn.

>>96159761
I think my context chip might be busted, because idk if the "it" is the Command Vox (yes but a unit can't boost its own reserve roll from outside the map) or the Command Vox's Buff (it does work on deepstrikes, but the vox itself needs to be on the map)

>>96159821
yeah, 40k solved that years ago. End turn scoring just means non-stop whack-a-mole.

>>96159825
Siege of Chtonia's scoring was great

>>96159825
Especially when every army has a reactive walk back off objective.

>>96159829
Me scouring with your mom was better though :)

>>96159823
I meant the vanguard / line giving.

What's a silly meme list? Thinking the max amount of librarians possible, along with a bunch of the Araknae emplacements with a few of the Tarantula batteries.

How many librarians could I bring in a 2k list?

>>96159635
is the omega good at killing tanks still?

its big shot got changed to a large blast, what does the small shot do now?

>>96159914
>how many librarians
3 in primary
1 logi benefit in primary
2 in officer cadre
1 logi benefit in apex
Each allied detachment gives 3 counting logi benefit, up to half army points
If you make your primary detachment Thousand Sons you can bring Magnus and either Ahriman or Magistus for 2 extra. From a points perspective you get 14-15 librarians in allied detachments, maybe fewer accounting for legion specific ones or pdf wargear. Depending on how you kit all them out you may have enough points to swap one librarian out for a osiron dreadnought.

Tldr, Going for absolute maximum, you could have 7 thousand sons librarians, ahriman / amon, magnus, an osiron dread, and 15 allied librarians.

>>96159837
Yep. Spend 1000 points on a justaerin landraider to try to score Vanguard(4) against a tactical squad standing on an objective normally worth (3) points. Landraider drives over, tactical squad simply reacts in movement phase to step off the objective, no longer any pay for Vanguard special rule at all. 1000 point justaerin strugglebus unit only allowed to score 1 victory point instead of 3 for pushing the enemy off the objective, because vanguard penalty of 1 max VP.

Other tactical squad steps on a side objective worth (1) point, due to Line(2) they score 3 points while the Justaerin unit only got 1.

Shit's retarded.

>>96160002
Venator, my bad. The neutron laser one.

>>96160008
You should probably also get vanguard points for killing something in melee that started the turn on objective. Maybe diminished, but you should still get some.

>>96160027
We should, but we don't. It specifies you have to attack a unit that was on the objecitve "at the start of the ASSAULT PHASE". Opponent can jusl react step off it during Justaerin's movement phase instead after justaerin wasted all their time trying to go to that objective (and maybe losing a landraider in the process)

>>96160008
what're you russian high command or some shit

>>96160008

Vanguard and line are retarded.

Why do my BA Angels Tears score points for clearing an objective, while Dawnbreakers doing the same nets me nothing.

Why are tacticals sitting on an objective more valuble vs. other units.

Makes zero sense. Too gamey.

>>96160052
Finite reactions helps avoid this

>>96160066
>Eyyy... you. Dawnbreaker. You have a loicense for that there objective? Let me see your papers, they better be in order.

>>96160067
everyone's gonna always have 3-4 per turn, they'll always spend 1 to counter 1000 point of vanguard justaerin. And melee is so shit it's not like you can footslog a 5man vanguard unit to save money, if you do that they just gun them down or beat them up instead and vanguard doesnt pay anything.

>>96159378
> just damage, before secondary consideration
>MEQ bolter vs MEQ 1/9
>MEQ disintegrator vs MEQ 1/3


do you know what words mean

Is a 350pt Saturnine Dread with 2 Inversion Beams enough to dissuade Terminators or Custodians from getting curious/too close?

>>96160076
He's talking practically. Yes its more output but how many shootouts are you getting into with Vets vs MEQ, and cost effectiveness as well.

I think the play may just be loading up on reactions and spam tactical squads with interdiction cadre prime benefit

if any tactical squad comes CLOSE to a point you just stand on it first

>>96160008
This wouldn't be as bad with 2 squads of 5 Tartaros each with their own land raider.

Spending 1 reaction in the movement phase is doable, Spending 2 means you won't have shit in the shooting phase. You may achieve dominance turn 1 but that won't mean shit if you have nothing for turns 3 and 4

>>96158427
Did the Death Guard use incendiary weapons before Nurgle got to them?

>>96160112
Morty still uses Phosphex in 40k. Hes the only fucker in the whole galaxy who still has any seemingly.

Full Melee Saturnine squads when?

>yeah im just gonna spend a reaction point to gain +2 toughness on my entire unit for the entire shooting phase

this shit is so ass to fight

>>96159825
In 1e, you had to hold objectives at the start of your turn. Can't remember if this was all missions though

>>96159558
> Vindicator Siege shot, if it stands still, kills a sicarian or predator in a single shot
My decisions from last edition are vindicated

>>96157364
Since there is zero chance GW did the same 'research' before implementation, I think anons approach is as valid

>>96160128
The Saturnine Command Squad in the second DLC book

>>96157674
This sounds like cope.
TTRPG players are not paying GW prices for miniatures. Maybe some work players buy AoS stuff for conversions but that's about it for cross system shit.

>>96160214
Old World players and people who just want cool stuff to paint are buying AoS stuff

>>96160128
GW said Saturnine Command Squads will be available with the Saturnine Journal.
>EC Saturnine Centurion disembarks from Spartan, charges, and kills half of your entire squad of elite terminators at i5 with his saturnine axe; his buddies with the same weapon kill everyone else who left at i4.

>>96160199
yeah, it's good when stationary. It can't move for deathguard unfortunately as ordinance rule isn't heavy.

>>96160153
Just shoot something else, senpai

>>96160269
It can't move in death guard regardless because it's a vehicle

Are any of them good?

>>96160323
The Valdor one

>>96160153
>What is phosphex

>>96160323
The Lion book was alright.

>>96160323
>BL
No

>>96160323
Warhawk of Chogoris is pretty decent

>>96160323
Valdor, Lion and Alpharius books are all very good.

>>96158131
I didnt really consider volley fire as much as I perhaps should, but I think "power weapon" terminators are - with some exceptions - going to be very rare because those terminators also happen to be really bad vs terminators.

>>96158910
The difference is in the payload. Disintigrators hurt like motherfuckers and vaporize enemy terminators, which is also why the overload hurts. Plasma mortars are safer, but they also deal far less damage.

>>96158811
I think its good that the big stupid unkillable terminators who have "are the slowest thing in the game after rapiers and tarantulas" as their limitation have their deep strike options limited. If you could just negate a unit weakness for cheap it would be lame.

>>96158427
Phosphex kinda suck at killing. It's main purpose is to prevent scoring by forcing panick test.

Just managed to pick up an official Magnus half price. How are we looking this edition, fellow candyapples?

>>96160247
Assuming they follow suit for normal command squads? Theyre going to be 3A each (so 2 hits vs ws4, not counting reaping blow) and then S5 meaning they wound terminators on 4s with those axes. Into 4++ this results in half a terminator kill each. Not bad, especially for "at initiative" weapons but not exactly insane either given theyre going to probably be near on 80ppm.

Reaping(2) is nice but those things are bulky(4) or something, so you wont be getting it very often. A squad of 3 saturnine command squad + saturnine centurion count for eight normal terminators.

>>96160541
Amazing. Psychic powers are strong in general and the special legion disciplines are also very good now. If you dont abuse some of the stronger interactions thousand sons are probably "just" a very powerful legion, if you do abuse corvidae + breaching then theyre going to be a dominant force with very few equals.

>>96160553
>wait until the rules for sisters leak

>>96160323
Alpharius was good
Perturabo was ok
Sanguinius was bad

>>96160008
Fuck what everyone else is saying, this is your actual problem: stop spending 1000 points on a unit. This is a good and expected outcome and it's the reason why everyone was calling people retarded for thinking justaerin (or any Vanguard deathstar really) are going to ruin the game - you can still only score off of killing one unit a turn, maybe 2 if you can finish off a unit on an objective within LOS and range. Split those fuckers up, take two land Raiders or dreadclaws instead. Fucking retards, think they should just get to roll up with 1/3 of their list in one transport and get mad when it doesn't work.

>>96160508
They don't. Have you seen the math ?
1 attack of S4 D1 is shit, no matter the ap. Tactical squads with bolter are more cost efficient at killing termies. Disintegrator would need to be S5 to be kinda viable.

what does comptroller do?

the leak is very blurry, hard to make out

>>96160323
The ones I read:

>pretty good
Leman Russ, Fulgrim

>not bad
Lorgar, Ferrus Manus, Lion El'Jonson, Alpharius, Rogal Dorn, Sanguinius

>requires supplementary reading to make its point, still doesn't stick the landing
Mortarion

>should be read as comedy
Perturabo, Konrad Curze

>>96160323
All BL novels are pretty mediocre but if you want rankings. Here's what I remember.

Guilliman book: 0/10, dumb cunt gets out-strategy'd and encircled and beat up by basic Orkz without even a famous warlord, that's how stupid he is
Russ: 5/10, book is mostly just about a non-spacewolf remembrancer or initiate or some shit, vaguely comes into contact with Russ a few times, Russ is retarded as always for the few seconds he's in, but okay wolf worldbuild
Magnus: magnus being magnus, "I like books", 4/10 forgettable but doesnt make you hate magnus, squishes ship with mind
Perty: I think this is the war with hrud? passable 6/10
Lorgar: bitchslapped by a human and cries, sad about rowboat bullying, 0/10
Fulgrim: just gay 0/10
Ferrus: 2/10, I believe this is the one where the main character is an EC not IH
Jaghatai: his books are always better 8/10
Vulkan: 3/10, forgettable
Corax: 0/10, makes worse decisions than a 10 year old and fails everything
Angron: 7/10
Konrad: 8/10. Kinda edgy but every book Konrad is in fleshes him out and improves him. This and the imperium secundus are both great.
Lion: 7/10 though the characterizations of Lion kinda change every book, but Dark Angels are cool in it and humiliating daemons is always good
Alpharius: 8/10. worldbuild
Morty: 0/10, he's just a whiny bitch
Dorn: 0/10, another bitch made worse, in contest to conquer a system with Lion and Fulgrim, maybe also Horus? I forget. The system gets darker and shittier the deeper inside, so Lion and Fulgrim swirl in attacking the most intelligent routes for lowest casualties and greatest gains, with Lion easily winning the contest. Retard Dorn bitches and calls them cowardly traitors "disloyal" for not being like him and going straight towards the center in the most retard manner possible, with Rogal Dorn doing the shittiest job ever with the least worlds saved, losing his own book.
Sanguinius: 5/10, I've forgotten the entirety, so it was probably very inoffensive or I'd remember

>>96160596
Comptroller(X) gives Line(X) to any unit they're attached to

>>96160008
Sounds like you should have taken another tactical squad on a rhino instead of spending a third of your army on terminators on a spartan

>>96160078

Double Inversion Beams DO have a good potential at Terminator Deletion. So, maybe you could us it as an area denial choice.

>>96160653
that's what everyone's forced to do, yes, vanguard units are pretty much entirely pointless this edition because the shit rules writing.
Doesn't mean we have to be happy with GW fucking the rules up.
Space marines vs space marines is already a limited enough ruleset without GW artificially ruining terminators.

>>96160627
>>should be read as comedy
>Perturabo

>>96157364
>>96158383
>Balancefags seething over anon daring to suggest a slight alteration to an already unbalanced game
Nobody is stopping you from just having fun anons

>>96160627
>>should be read as comedy
>Perturabo, Konrad Curze
The question is, is it because of being horribly written, or because the primarchs themselves are utter clowns?

>>96160627
>should be read as comedy
Emperors Children tourist kicking the ass of Iron Hands in the dueling rings so hard that Ferrus Mannus goes inside and has to unfairly beat up another primarch's children because the Iron Hands are too shit to actually fight

>>96160675
I can't imagine playing 1 game, doing something that stupid and being this butthurt just because it didn't work
Have you considered that getting the enemy line(2) unit out of an objective worth 3 points might actually be pretty good?
And you can't do that with a tactical squad?
And that maybe it's on purpose that the units that can pull that off very easily can't themselves just make the same VP from the objective, because otherwise everyone would just spam vanguard units?
Gee, it's almost like the rules want you to have a mix of units attacking the objectives instead of throwing 1/3 of your armies points into a single deathstar
But yea, it's totally the system's fault. Not you doing something stupid

>>96160675
Anon, I can’t wait to get my axe boys to spill some astartes blood. This is the SA edition.

>>96160734
Akurduana was built different.

>>96159558
Falchion. Laser destroyers are free real estate.

>>96160735
Anon, don't try and help him, it's best that he's filtered now and goes back to 1.0 So he can see how much shittier deathstars were back then too, maybe then he'll go back to 40k with the other retards.

>>96160549
yep, they seem pretty dangerous (and expensive) in some legions.

>>96160737
>This is the SA edition.
Desu I'm gonna be playing them and I do NOT trust the veletaris meme at all. They seem like they'll be great at killing...Tacticals If you take the special veletaris doctrine too. And a dracosan.

I'd much rather just blow them up with some leman russes and then walk a lasrifle section on instead.

>>96160631
Corax fell off fast. He started off as a cold calculating "Batman with prep time and murder" level of talent. Then when faced with the larger war and tough decisions he crumpled. His best moments were being reduced to a simulation computer that gave instructions to more competent warriors. It got worse until he choked at the massacre. He was propped up by a competent legion and command structure and still somehow managed to get everyone killed.

Arkhas Fal should have stayed in charge.

>>96158931
I'm the guy who made the khenetai out of rubrics and TK bits

>>96160790
>khenetai out of rubrics
Oh fuck that's hot. Pics? I'm getting a set today but maybe I hold off on putting them on MKIV.

>>96160722
>seething
I play World Eaters: extra turns to table wipe you is all in my favor. I am keenly cognizant of the impact of 4 turns on gameplay.

If you, and your opponent, want to play more turns, go ahead. But you'll be finding balances and strategies which won't apply to a defined-limit 4 turn game.

In brief, 4 turns is plenty of time if you're not turtling like a pussy.

>>96160737
Axes rarely make it into combat with an effective number remaining to really matter. Fun unit on paper, but on the board they get fucked. Maybe with the vehicle rules you can get a full 20 man into combat, but you would have to dump them right on top of the enemy and they have no move reaction to just walk away and laugh at you.

>>96160795
A table wipe is 2 vp? That won't really matter when the other guy is spamming tacs and racking up 30+ vp turtling on circles.

>>96160785
Leman Russ tanks don't give you 3 VP for killing tacticals.

Its fine if axe boys are only good at killing tacticals since they're like, 12ppm so they're not much more expensive than tacticals and are generally only going to be fighting tacticals or despoilers.

>>96160078
>>96160667
Biggest reason for me taking inversion is aesthetics. Granted, I love the look of all the satdread's weapons. Much prefer energy weapons than dumb autocannons with magazines that'd last for like 5 shots with no way to reload them unless you've got a horde of ammo serfs babysitting (looking at you, quad autocannon contemptor).

I do have to think what'd be best to babysit the satdread from getting tied up in melee

>>96160794
I have another 10 armed correctly sword, but I ran out of bits lol

So... last thread we were talking about Heralds and who could make them work, and I figured if I went through the Legion equipment there'd be something that could work better than others.

At the time somebody discussed the (very good) concept of a NL Herald with Paragon of Battle (+1 to A, BS and WS) then giving him a Headsmans Axe (essentially a discount Thunder Hammer) and if he ever got into a challenge he couldn't win, just using the NL Gambit and swapping with Johnny Rando in his squad.
I've also found another Legion that might work as well: Ultramarines.
So, Ultra's have some weirdly permissive Specialist Wargear options. Any power weapon can be swapped out for a Legatine Axe with Breaching 4+ and doesn't have the negative initiative modifier.
But the interesting part is that... just anyone can have a Agentum Storm Shield? Like... for 15pts? Which gives them a 4+ Invulnerable in Combat. Also makes them heavy, which is a downside.

But if you put them into a unit of Breachers, then if they get charged you can spend a reaction to Shieldwall, and now the Herald is T5 for the rest of the Challenge, which MIGHT be useful if the guy only has a S5 or 6 weapon.

Speaking of On the Charge. The White Scars option of taking a Power Glaive is kind of interesting, since it's got Impact(AP), so you could charge a Terminator, opt for Flurry of Blows, assuming that the Terminator has a Fist and isn't gonna win the Focus Phase and try and grind him down in a single round. Not sure about that one.

Salamanders get another bonus attack from all their Master Crafted stuff, although the Gambit probably isn't wise on people who need to survive the game. EC's can boost the Initiative of their Herald into the roof... but I'm not sure it's worth it? TSons get some interesting stuff with a Breaching (5+) +1S Force Sword, a Gambit that can give them a Focus roll of 9. Or just say "Fuck it" and attempt to Kill The Loyalists With Your Mind with Pyrae.

10 more MK VI for 30 tacticals total
Or
Turn them into a special weapons group? Which weapon if so?

Now that dreads have been nerfed, what's the way to max out dreads in 3.0? Like, spam a decent amount without missing out on whatever good uses of prime advantages there are.

>>96160817
Three VP actually. About the same as one tactical squad standing on an objective for one turn.

>>96160916
Assuming you take 1 troop worth logistical benefit and all your HQs as centurions you could fit 7 dreads on your primary detachment then take an equal number of points in Centurion with logistics + 3 dreads is as many allied detachments as you want.
Depends on the points of the game

>>96160928
The troop is not needed, you can put the logistical benefit on one of the centurions in the primary detachment too

>>96160787
the irony of the setting is half the primarchs would just be better off having their legion donated to other primarchs and them just being a wandering superhero to call upon when shit gets real with some SuperXenos aliens that normal marines are no match for.

Give the Raven Guard to Lion to use strategically, Night Lords to Alpharius (who would have no problem keeping up to date intelligence about criminal recruits) and World Eaters legion to Perturabo (for close trench/building clearing) and they'd all have been run more effectively. And they wouldn't need to ruin the World Eaters with butchers nails driving them to khorne in the most predictable way the emperor had no excuse for allowing.

Oh, and considering Leman Russ is the most stupid motherfucker to ever live, hand his legion to say, Jaghatai or Sanguinius, and they'd achieve much more (and Sanguinius could handle the Wulfen problem just like he teaches his men to control their Red Thirst issues, and have Azkaellon execute any wolves who lose total control) - Sanguinius also wouldn't let the wolves teamkill Dark Angel spaceships then refuse to apologize, or challenge Lion to a duel for executing the enemy warlord and saving the lives of a combined space marine army, nor would Sanguinius randomly leave Terra defenseless out of a need to go brawl with Horus, or lower the shields on his flagship "to try to trick the alpha legion"

Corax, Konrad and Angron could still get shit done without needing 100,000+ space marines to make bad decisions with. All Konrads most impressive feats (fighting 3-4 primarchs alone on Macragge), nearly-killing-Lion with Sevatar and some other trooper vs Lion+Alejos+Corswain (and sevatar beheading alejos) Corax rushing over and being in process of absolutely slaughtering Lorgar for the first time until Konrad rushes over and temporarily saves Lorgar's worthless life.

Only reason not to pass command to the actual commander primarchs is sentimentality.

>>96160847
>"Take a look," the thousand son cackled eerily before raising the stave.
>"It's... in the book."

>>96160936
* and give the Word Bearers to literally anyone else, just fire Lorgar, he's not even good as a solo mercenary. Just ditch him into the nearest sun.

>>96160199
I see what you did there.

>>96160845
>I do have to think what'd be best to babysit the satdread from getting tied up in melee
Another dreadnought

>>96160199
>take 3 vindicators as Night Lords
>drive full speed towards the caps
>return fire counting as stationary with 6 dmg at anything that shoots them
Death is nothing compared to Vindication!

>>96160985
Vehicles can't shoot guns with strength 7 or higher during reactions.

>>96160992
Fuck. Death it is.

>>96159065
thanks, i'll be here all week
every week, forever

>>96160592
Saturnines have two shots at S7 D2 Ap2? They arent packing the S4 Ap3 veteran guns.

>Be Ultramarine
>Take Praetor
>Take 3 Centurions
>Take 6 Optae each in their own Demi Company
>Get +10 to focus rolls on challenges
I know it's unrealistic but it is pretty funny
And a much more tame version of this still looks really strong. Specially when you can put a 4++ on any character

>>96161050
And veteran disintegrators are not D1 either. Idk what that anon is smoking

>>96160592
D2*. Disintigrator vets are good at killing other 2w 3+ or cutting down 1w units with an apothecary.

>>96161066
Cheesing the cheese phase? Perish the thought.

>>96160845
Extremely cool looking raygun that is also an everything deleting blast weapon.

>>96161066
What is the normal, average focus roll bonus you can pull? Because even with just the normal HQ filled, +4 already seem like a good number

>>96160973
>WS4
Maybe something that won't fold in one melee

>>96160898
>(essentially a discount Thunder Hammer
I dont think thats a fair assessment. It trades 1S for critical blow(6+), which seems to be a slight upgrade imo.
But yea, UM heralds might be pretty tasty.

thoughts on missle launcher heavy support squad?

>>96157092 (OP)
>>HH 3.0 Leaks
>>Mech Leaks
>>SA Gofile
Questoris pics when?

>>96161115
They seem good. They are worse lass cannons as usual, but 10p cheaper per guy is a pretty considerable amount.
Not great against vehicles but they are perfectly fine for killing MEQs and VEQs

>Wayland Games, the biggest 3rd party seller of Games Workshop products in the UK, are now selling Horus Heresy 3.0 pre-orders at 35% discount

What does such a massive flop mean for the future of Heresy?

>>96161149
it means I'm waiting til black friday to get it 40-50% discounted

>>96161149
My local game store is selling them for $200. I think GW pushed these hard on retailers and it's turning out to be a bit of a bomb.

For that price I am picking one up for the mk2 marines then use the rest for trade fodder.

>>96161139
yeah with blasts being better, 10 using frag could clap 10 marines, the ap3 is good for marines or mech, who have alot of 3+ now. then ok for rhinos or glancing preds. 260 points with aug scanner. Intresting to say the keast

>>96161149
It means that maybe they will learn their lesson after the second time they fill a starter box with made up units no one asked for and it tanking bc of it. Hopefully they won't do it again

>>96160928
>>96160932
Shit this is fucking over anyone who was running a tonne of dreads since 1.0. Already have 3 Leviathans and 2 contemptors. Was planning on getting another 2 Levs and minimum 3 Saturnines but this has royally fucked me more than wargear changes. This is just like when they made deff dreads single units instead of squads of 1-3.

>>96161139
>lass cannons
Even our guns are women now? GW has gone too far!

>>96161166
they definitely won't do it again, cause they'll pull the plug on the whole setting lol

>>96161149

F

>>96161149
Jesus christ. Has anyone seen the updated figures from the US side that was being tracked with the amount of saturnine boxes getting returned? It was at 16-15 again last I saw.

>>96161190
it's not a setting specific thing

>>96160916
As always the answer is Stormwing.
Two prime troop slots in their detachment. One gets logisistical advantage, the other gets master sergeant if you want that.

>>96161149
Cheap models hopefully.

>>96161158

I had a similar thought but then remembered that I am a filthy printfag who won't buy it at any price.
The Centurion is the single model I am interested in, so hopefully he pops up on ebay for <£15.

>>96161149

> 10 marines for £18 including postage

What is this, 2003?

>>96161170
How are you complaining about this when last edition you could only take 3 leviathans at the expense of any other heavy support?
You couldn't take 5, much less 5 and another 3 heavier dreadnoughts, even if you wanted to
You can take all the dreads you have with just 2 centurions

>>96160153
Don't you mean +1T?

>>96160247
>Saturnine Centurion disembarks from Spartan, charges, and kills half of your entire squad of elite terminators at i5
Saturnine Praetors are i4, and regular Saturnines are i3. And that's with axes.

>>96161239
Not for TS

>>96161246
Saturnine praetors are also A4, saturnine Centurions might be A3. Even with reaping blow thats just not that many attacks.

>>96161246
he's exaggerating the results but EC do basically get to attack at initiative with the axes

Last of these guys done, Siege Tyrants on the desk now.

>>96161227
You're high. Leviathans and contemptors can be taken in talons which only take 1 HS slot.

>saturnine command squad
>not only are they not in the rulebook, the DLC they're arbitrarily withheld for is not even the day 1 DLC, its the second DLC
so with like 3 months of launch you'll need 3 books and a PDF to have the full rules for a space marine legion. This edition is stacking up to make 7th edition and its dataslate torrent look consumer friendly and good value.

>>96157092 (OP)
Is there currently an audiobook mega that has the siege of terra books? Would love to finish the series.

>>96161270
Most idiotic part I find is GW gutting a tonne of units' customisation, making it so "1 box 1 unit" type shit, and then go "ooh ooh get the command squad too so you can kitbash a satcommand!". Yeah fuck off. I guarantee you saturnine command would end up legacies or deleted in 4.0.

>>96161256
I do think it's balanced. Even heavier than Cataphractii, but slower. For a duel, i4 - 1 - weapon's Init. The saturnine will probably survive a hammering, but he will go seco- AND HERE COMES AGAPITO NEV WITH A THUNDER CHAIR!

>>96161278
>Yeah fuck off. I guarantee you saturnine command would end up legacies or deleted in 4.0.
Yea, probably. The random kitbash unit you get in a journal ending up as a legacy unit does not seen strange or controversial to me. The missile tank made by sticking a tarantula turret onto a predator is also going to be the same, and the command and control squad.

Me reading TS rules:
>Hmm, Stoneform +2T as a reaction against any shooting attack seems pretty good.
>Hmm, a psy power that removes a Status in 18' in the Start phase, interesting.
>Hmm, a reaction power that gives 4+ shrouded against any shooting attack—that's very useful.
>Hmm, a power that grants..RENDING 5+ IN ANY SHOOTING WHAT THE FUCK
Seriously, guys, wtf? thanks god 2.0 cognis signum with +1 BS is gone, holy shit. Ok. HSS and support squads still have a pretty good chance at failing WL check, but honestly AP2 D2 plasma 66% of the time doesn't sound that good to me. DS + two shots for combi plasma. Moritats! Also Autocannons, holy shit. SEEKERS!! They can just infiltrate and kill you from 30'!! Insane.
Also contemptors with 3+ shrouded against shooting or contemptors that can literally resurrect themselves. Nuts.

>>96161288
It balanced cuz anyone fighting EC is going to go second and that unit alone in a spartan is probably close to 1000 points. Entirely reliant on you actually putting a worthy target in front of them
See anon in this very thread complaining about how vanguard unit are useless cuz the enemy just moves away

>>96161294
I'm genuinely gonna go make myself a stack of pancakes and just watch the inevitable 40% and then 50% discounts. People are already making new listings with the new price cuts. It's Joever, James workshop.

>>96161301
It's to make up for the last 3 years shitty rules
Have in mind in 3 year they will probably overcompensate in the other direction cuz they can't fucking balance armies for the life of them

>>96161301
Plasma is only D1, at least on the weapons TSS get. Are you thinking of autocannons?
Rending 5+ on a breaching 4+ unit is also far less insane than you make it sound. Its a sizeable damage increase, but its not what it is for autocannons.

>>96161246
>EC Saturnine Centurion

>>96158131
I feel like the synergy focus of the army is the thing here. Like, the Auxilia are absolutely flush with options for applying statuses. Even just the Dracosan they rode in on can ask for a stun and its choice of suppression or panic, before factoring in support from other units. A Veletari command that you had to buy anyway to get the detachment to buy your storm section even somewhat near the push is giving every storm section in the area FNP 5+ against the volley shots. That's all without factoring anything above the spend you had to have to get this unit on the board in the first place. The chances the terminators take a status from any one of the SA's numerous Status (1) options is like 40%, and for my money I think it's going to be sort of trivial to ask a priority target to take the status checks the dracosan isn't already asking from them, and at that point it's pretty uncommon not to put at least one status on the terminators and drop them to initiative 1 regardless of what they're equipped with, at which point the axes get to maul them before they hit back.

>>96161301
god the quality of the saturnine units goes up and down so wildly.

>>96161321
Right, Rending is an auto wound that counts as 6. My mistake (mixed it up with Crit).

>>96161374
No worries, its a similar rule (crit is just super rending/rending + shred (that stacks with shred)).

>>96161149
Wow I guess they should have released a statement on the legacies thing a lot faster
Who knew that letting your least pleasent fan boys act as your de facto PR team was a bad idea

boys what does slow and purposeful do?

>>96161413
Cant pursue after combat.

>>96161387
Short GW anyone?

>>96161443
don't mind if I do

Modern artwork will NEVER out-menace this simple masterpiece.. If you think otherwise, you're a faggot.

>>96161149
The Libers are 35% off too, guess the doomer were right at this edition is a flop

>>96161443
Go for it dumbass. Piss away your money because a company with phenomenal fundamentals fell 3% due to reseller's pricing policy. We're in ugly times. If anything, consumer fears will only amplify discretionary spending on goytoys.

>>96161264
Looks good, anon!

>>96161463
They 40k'd it without even the good bits of 40k imo - putting some of the special rules on the unit sheets themselves so I don't have to flip back and forth 4 fucking times between the unit, the special rule in the liber, the rulebook with the USR, and back to the unit.

Also feel the AP modifiers make more sense than all-or-nothing AP. If I go from a 20mm autocannon to a 76mm autocannon, I still may not pen the main armored areas of a tank, but you bet your ass I have more weak points that I suddenly CAN penetrate.

>>96161491
>Claiming any part of 10th is good.
>"AP modifiers make more sense than all-or-nothing AP."
Holy fuck what a tourist. Go back to /40kg/

>>96161166

My brother in christ they've already done this exact thing in two AoS starters. They are absolutely not learning this lesson.
Do you not remember how much of a joke the Dominion box became? They were literally giving those boxes away in the end, and even then COULDN'T GET RID OF THEM.

What the FUCK ever possessed them to think people wanted a box with yet more Sigmarines and a collection of Orc units that look like 3rd party Orcs from some rando on Etsy?

>>96161149
HH was great when the staff were passionate and knew their shit. The new diorama is painted aping the ones from that era which is great but the new models are just so ugly, nu-mk3 in particular, that it doesn't click with me. In a way modern HH is the same, once you scratch off the paint and just look at it for what it is it just looks like a huge pile of shit. Maybe nothing they do can save them now or maybe they can still bounce back despite how few people are buying in. Who knows. I'll still get my resin crack from the slavs and the chinks any days of the week and they won't even be the new ones. I ain't touching them or 3.0 with a 10 foot pole.

Oh dear

It was 156 on preorder day, they're refunding the difference for people who have already ordered

>>96161549
What are you, some 3.0 or wayland employee advertising?

>>96161562
No I'm a homebrew anon for 2.0 whose gonna take advantage of the price and get me an extra box for kitbashing

Here's a scouring era Dev squad I made for my ba

>>96161443

I mean, this isn't that bad compared to what Diablo Immortal kicked off with Blizzard.

>>96161603
True but we haven't had a "you guys have phone, right?" moment *yet*.

>>96161609

I'd like to think if we WERE, it would have been over the culling of options in the Libers, and their response to that was to literally show us the contents page of the Legacy PDF, which actually did calm some of it down, when "missing wargear" was found to be on there.
Of course, when THAT drops and fails to live up to expectations we'll see what happens.

>>96157958
SoH terminators, who volley at full BS. Justaerin, who volley at full BS with Banestrike bolters and a Multi-melta. They are the best, and so expensive!

>>96161580
>Here's a scouring era Dev squad.
Lovely squad anon. I hope they eventually make an 'old world' reboot of 40k set in the scouring, or just progress heresy to encompass it. Loyalist armies being able to take a "codex compliant" rite of war giving them 40k style mixed loadouts on squads would be sick.

>>96161638
Multi meltas are heavy, can't use those for volley fire even with implacable advance.

>>96161580
Oh MKVII I didn't appreciate you enough.

>>96157958
Contekar have 4 shot 10" volkite and/or heavy flamers. Which is a fairly decent ranged loadout into the right targets.

>>96161149
Hopefully they drop prices on other stuff too.

>local LGS is sold out of the traitor liber but not the loyalist one
for fucks sake

>>96161644
>>96161654
I also kitbashed command squad using the classic make up of the unit

Pictures of this are a bit ass however

>3.0 crashes and burns
>get tons of Heresy minis for cheap
>make up my own rules based on a way better system like Bolt Action or something
>leave GWtards behind

lol

>>96161683
That apothecary looks out of place in the unit not going to lie. Like really out of place.

>>96161304
No, I get it. One can always evade, but EC can always counter charge that one time, right? Even if you feed them a tactical unit, Perfect Counter activates their +1i
It's weird that the saturnine hammer is slower than the first, when it's the opposite for normal ones. Guess they don't follow the regular trend. Maybe a terminator squad can survive the axes? T5

>>96161698
The marines next to the apothecary are even looking at him like
>Who let this clown in here?
lmao

>muh evade
Did everyone just not read the rules? Only cavalry and light units can evade.

>>96161644
Given enougth time (my guess is 5th edition) they will make new MKVII and expand 30k into the scouring but I don't see them turning it into TOW 40k since that would require adding Xenos
We'll get Siege/Scouring CSM eventually though

>>96161698
Brother Larrius did not get as much geneseed as his brother's, leave the chap behind

The actual apothecary is this lad

>>96161726
Everyone is illiterate these days anon. I stopped bothering with correcting people weeks ago, there's just too many retards in here that keep repeating the same mistakes.

>>96160847
Noice

>>96161609
>You guys like modern 40k, right?

>>96161683
That Apothecary is amazing. You can feel the manlet rage seething within. Every melee kill he scores is going to be fucking hilarious and will bring laughter to you and your opponent each time you loudly proclaim " - and now for his chain sword attacks" before rolling.

>>96161693
Keep dreaming macca

>>96161789
I honestly wonder how GW view the divide between 40k and 30k and if 30k fans not liking (modern) 40k is something GW have acknowledged internally or if they have a corporate culture that really pushes back against the idea that anyone could prefer old 40k to new 40k or that anyone who's into wargames might not like 40k
Like with AoS and TOW ones a rank and flank and one isn't, so they'd be more able to understand the divide between the two

>>96161726
I think people are saying Evade, but actually mean Reposition. So, can't avoid a charge, but can totally just move beyond 9", which is the mathematical maximum for Tartaros termies

>>96161912
Maybe. Although evade is a 4" move for most units (less for stuff like saturnines, where its actually 3")

>>96161912
It's this. You don't need to dodge the eventual charge for this reaction to be so strong. You just need to tiptoe off the objective to cancel vanguard 3.

>>96161942
The issue with that is they dont need to kill you at that point. Simply walk on with their own tacticals/breachers/despoilers and have more models in range.

>>96157092 (OP)
I can’t fucking decide between imperial fists or iron warriors and that amuses me

>>96160971
The only thing I am missing is my Head of the Gorgon outflank

>>96161995
What keeps you?

>>96161995
Iron Warriors are a shitload easier to paint if that matters.

>>96161535
That's the first one I was referencing

>>96161149
Lmao this doesn't effect GW at all.
It made it's money the second they were sent to the distributor. It's the stores that are stuck holding the bag (it's you either take your huge allocation of 30k/AoS, or you don't and we slash your allocation of 40k shit that the pigs will always buy).

>>96161654
We didn't know how good we had it

>>96161693
No everyone will be playing my edition based on AoS 2nd edition.

>>96159558
Laser destroyers. Melta blast guns. Vindicators (either variant works). Melta in melta range/lascannons can also put in work, if not necessarily in particularly dramatic fashion. Arachnus lascannons are also pretty good, if unreliable. Neutrom sicarans. The cerberus tank destroyer.

Theres still solid answers to the super heavy armor, its just not an easy to spam heavy weapon (lascannons still work, just slowly and not very efficiently)

>>96162020
why? Just because yellow needs an undercoat?

Now that I know Rending is on Hits instead of Wounds, lightning claws look way better than before. 1/6 of hits are 2D. And that's not counting the 6s to wound of the other 3-5 to hit

>>96162035
True. All I'm hearing is third party stores that ordered more HH product than they could realistically shift. They probably expected it to be as popular as 40k, which just isn't realistic.
On top of that no scalpers have interest in it, because it has been very clear from the start that this is not a limited product, but will be available for the entire edition just like AoD was.
For GW, 3.0 is already a success.

>>96161549
I start buying at -75%

>>96161910
I think once you go from 'specialist game' to 'main line game' management starts to move you more towards modern 40k "this is what sells, make the game fit this mold".
Lower level employees will acknowledge it, and likely embrace it, but higher ups are going to override any of that.
If we see TOW go to a main line game there will likely be very large changes made to it.

>>96161683
I have that very pewter apothecary. Love the lad. So dense and heavy. Maybe I'll paint him up to use as a Primus Medicae and put him on an elaborate base for kicks.

>>96162102
Truly the worst thing to happen to a game is management knowing it exists

>>96162068
Yup. LC are still entirely good weapons.

>1/6 of hits are 2D
Not unless theres a critical hit variant im missing. LC are, on a 6 to hit, automatically wounding at Ap2.

I think you have your rules mixed up.
Rending(X+): on that value to hit you automatically wound (counts as a 6)
Breaching(X+): on that value to wound, you cound as AP2
Critical hit(X+): on that value to hit, you automatically wound with +1 damage (counts as a 6)
Shred(X+): on that value to wound, you deal +1 damage

Lightning claws now have rending + breaching (and not shred). So on a 6 to hit they automatically wound (counts as AP2)
Some other weapons (like the SoH, IH and NL special weapons) have breaching and shred, which means on a 6 to wound they count as AP2 and D2.

>>96161977
Which is still better than then scoring 3 vanguard as well. If your marines are locked in combat they don't score. If they're dead they don't score. If they get killed on a point your opponent can get the 3vp plus the objective. Then walking their own line on the point has zero interaction with your unit if you keep them there because they aren't challenged at all for control.

>>96162065
Yellow itself is shit easy to paint, the problem is fixing overspill, particularly with darker colours which are in the IF scheme

>>96162136
Sure, but they dont even need to send any vanguard over now.

ok so in my donutsteel rules, should terminator armour be too high for bolters to penetrate, like vs vehicles, or should bolters be just about able to penetrate with a lucky hit?

d10 system btw

>>96162148
You only react off to vanguard.

Ok so, how do I use Elite Terminators? I want to use them because I think it's cool (i'm so edgy guys). But I keep hearing having a single model being ~700 pts (LR + elite termies + IC) is to ask for trouble.
The only play around it that I can think of is to have two more termie LRs, sans IC. Leaves you some 1200 pts for the rest of the army

>>96162170
Being able to react off requires having a very low contact with the objective. Meaning you wont have many models contesting. The enemy doesent care if you move at that point, they simply move up, end up with more models contesting, and win the objective.

>>96162187
It's 4" movement (average i4) and control range of an objective is 3". It's not that hard to have 10 or more bodies controlling and then able to move 4" out of control range.

>>96161149
Oh shit it's real. They're actually fucked

>>96162174
>But I keep hearing having a single model being ~700 pts (LR + elite termies + IC) is to ask for trouble.
Deathstars ARE asking for trouble, but theyre also the singular most powerful melee units in the game.
Deathstars are skew lists, skew lists can fall apart or do really well depending on what the other guy has.

So it really depends what you want. You can go a big character deathstar, you can take smaller groups (even 5 elite legion terminators can be a poweful force and kill scores of lesser enemies while being hard to kill without dedicated counters), you can deepstrike them in (some of the time)

>>96160592
Anon I beg of you to read the fucking rules before complaining about them

>>96162202
Exactly, its a 4" move and a 3" bubble. To be able to clear it you wont have many models in range.

>>96161149
Dark Sphere games says hello

>>96161193
No, they sold a box and the guy spamming the thread an hero'd

>>96162237
Is it weird that I can actually believe this happened?

>>96162235
I don't know what you want to show with this? Wayland are selling it for £126.75

>>96161491
>Also feel the AP modifiers make more sense than all-or-nothing AP.
Fuck off and never come back

Hmm, I got 10MKII and 4 Termis for $60. Maybe I overpaid...

>>96161491
>Also feel the AP modifiers make more sense than all-or-nothing AP.
That is because they very obviously do. The only reason they're in this game is because a significant amount of the people who play this game are hyper fixated on this specific rule because they associate it with their childhood.

>>96162235
Retailers buy at roughly 50% of the retail price so they're 30k (heh) in the hole

>>96162226
4" is bigger than 3", Anon. No matter what she tells you. You have 10 marines around the perimeter of an objective control area. All 10 are controlling it positioned on the far side of the control radius to your opponent (Eg closer to your edge). None of them are wholly within it, just dipping their toes in. A Vanguard 3 unit rolls up within 12" do you
>Move react off the point by using less than 2 out of your 4 inches of movement thus denying your opponent 3 extra VP
Or
>Stand there to get locked in combat where you don't score anyway and probably die scoring your opponent 3VP
It's that easy. Don't put your Tacs within the control range on your opponents side of it. If a non vanguard unit rolls up just stay there to contest.
>But my opponent can still put their own line on!
Irrelevant to this example as your tac squad wouldn't be contesting while in combat or being dead already.

I am kind of confused: EC Sonic Shriekers wording is "when a unit makes a Charge Move," but Charge Move is the last step of the charge procedure, and all reactions it is supposed to counter (Overwatch, Evade) are happening before that step. And this is the last step in the charging procedure.

However, in the general charge Sub-phase description, Charge Move is described as if it's an entire procedure of charge that starts with step one. In that case, Shriekers will counter reactions.

There are also contradictions about whether you may not choose to make a charge move (as for a unit), and simultaneously, in the Charge Move Step, it's said that you cannot choose not to make a charge move (as a movement after the volley step).

>>96161491
>Also feel the AP modifiers make more sense than all-or-nothing AP.
>If I go from a 20mm autocannon to a 76mm autocannon, I still may not pen the main armored areas of a tank, but you bet your ass I have more weak points that I suddenly CAN penetrate.
You... You don't know how AP and AV work in this game do you?

Ap modifiers fucked up 40k and they haven't managed to balance that system even after 10 years

>>96162335
Quiet anon, we don't need another three to seven paragraphs of GW trying to explain this using the most words possible.

Just don't take sonic shriekers and don't declare charges. This is a shooting edition anyway.

A 2+ save hit by AP-1 will take 100% more wounds than AP0.
A 5+ save hit by AP-1 takes 25% more.
You have an ass-backwards system where minor AP improvements massively punish the heaviest units while lighter units don't notice.
You could do a system where 'Invulnerable saves' basically act as negative AP though. For example, a Terminator having Invulnerable(1) still keeping their 2+ save against AP-1 or a 3+ save against AP-2. Maybe that works, I dunno I haven't tested it.

>>96162354
>Just don't take sonic shriekers and don't declare charges.
it's over

>>96162371
This why 40k Termis are now T5+, 4++, 3W+ and often have damage reducing rules in some form

>>96162387
Doesn't even matter when your basic 16p marine shoots 4 shots at 30" with ap-1 hitting on 2 and rerolling all hits and wounds

>>96162387
>Mfw 30k termies are T5, 4++ and some do have Eternal Warrior

>>96157092 (OP)
Got my liber questoris book

Stomps are a funny reaction now, if a non vehicle ends within 8" of a knight, it can walk up and dump a S AP3 D2 small blast that auto hits partials

Knights can also just walk over units without causing a death or glory, they're untarpittable.

Mechanicum knights are great, atrapos and siege claws have some of the highest S hits in the game (Atrapos can very possibly one shot another knight)

Titans are even harder to kill, but the big weapons can only fire snap shots at non super heavies/objectives (warlord arm weapons, etc)

Titans start at BS3 but you can pay +X points to give them BS4 and +Y points to give them BS5

Infantry can try to clamor up titans and make issues for them, but they always take damage in return. This does no hull points to a titan, but can inflict until-next-turn debuffs. If a titan is already "unsteady", an infantry unit can actually kill a titan by inflicting "unsteady" again, but it's not easy. Heavy units are worse at it, anti-grav units and light units are better at it.
A cool check makes the AP2 hits from attacking a titan like this into AP4, but if you fail it be prepared to lose most of your squad.

Titans also can end their movement on top of non-vehicle models and if they do, they inflict huge damage automatically. Titans also force panic checks if they pass over ANY unit, friendly or enemy.

Titan melee weapons are actually just short ranged shooting weapons, and can only hit other super heavies/knights. Titans automatically inflict a bunch of AP2 hits in combat, in addition to their guns which can volley fire at full BS.

Titans repair a lot, and void shields are very strong.

Overall, they actually do seem somewhat balanced in the specific Titan intended missions. They aren't AMAZING at wiping the field of small units because their strongest weapons can only shoot super heavies or macro objectives.

In return, titans are extremely difficult to kill for anything less than another titan.

Any good suggestions for any kits that have nice looking daggers in them, that I can give to my Alpha Legion?

>>96162416
There's like 2 that do
The baseline for EVERY terminator is t5 2+/4++ w3 in 40k

>>96162310
GW charges stores 55% of MSRP.

>>96162438
>Atrapos can very possibly one shot another knight
Hell yeah. Atrapos stonks up. How's my Asterius? Art thou willing to bless us with pics?

>>96162440
All 30k terminators are T5 2W in 3.0 and all cataphractii have a 4++

>>96162439
Tempestus Scions have a lot of sheathed ones.

>>96162452
Cool, 2 wounds is less than 3

>>96162371
It's not that it's not ass backwards, it's that it's less ass backwards than "Sorry, your AP4 gun has literally no chance to penetrate a marine's armor, but AP3 literally always does". Which has just as many weird ass statistical aberrations, like how the difference between an AP3 gun and an AP2 gun against a 2+ save, all other things being equal, is dealing 500% more wounds.

>>96162440
Yeah. I'm just wary these first steps are indeed leading somewhere we may not want to go

>>96157713
Probably not since it was revealed to be a sham, and the Soul Drinkers are not descended from Imperial Fists.

>>96162254
Because they've got 300 fucking copies on their way

>>96162474
All or nothing AP is indeed too swingy. Things are useless until they are super effective. And Breaching is a bad-aid.
But we have also seen what AP modifiers do to the game. A single point of -1AP does wonders, and starts affecting things that shouldn't be. Soon the devs need to hand out invulns to everything, which causes hyperinflation like it was a devalued currency. Then it's Mortal Wounds, then it's FnP against said Mortal Wounds...
It's like communism - it always implodes

What might work is a combination of APX + Modifier (independent of Breaching). As in, this attack is AP4/-1, so it ignores all 4+ saves. But for the saves it doesn't ignore, it's -1 to those.
It is very complex, however.

>>96162455
Too small desu

>>96162517
*Breaching is a BAND-aid. I think it's okay.
A bit more stuff could afford to be full AP2 though, just saying.

>>96162523
Custodes are the only other then. Unless Necromunda has something.

Bought the box to sell on eBay now it's been dropped; there will still be many nerds not getting it, who will still eat the slop up as separate packages

>>96162517
>Things are useless until they are super effective
That's not swingy
That's the fucking point
With 40k's shit ap system spamming basic ap-1 weapons is way cheaper and more effective way to counter a 2+ save than any dedicated weapons you should be using to deal with heavily armored targets
It's an incredibly retarded system mathematically and thematically

>>96162463
And what does that have to do with AP?

>>96162543
Yeah that's what I said. Didn't I say AP-1 spam was a bad thing?

>>96162542
Nobody. Its going to be easier than ever to get bits from sites, print or just buy the box.

>>96162449
>How's my Asterius?
Same profile as the Porphyrion but with Auto-repair (4+) instead of (5+) which is normal for all the admech knights

M10 WS3 BS4 S10 AV14 front, AV11 rear, I2, A3, 18 HP

Ionic flare shield so it ignores armourbane, 5++ to the front 6++ to the rear, can rotate its ion shield like any other knight to give it +1 to its invul save against one unit shooting at it but drops its invul to 6++ against any further shooting that phase

The conversion beam desolator array is:
<18 FP2 RS8 AP4 D2
18-42 FP2 RS9 AP3 D3
>42-72 FP2 RS10 AP2 D4

It has Ordnance (D) and Blast (7"), so at just 18" away it can kill entire predator/rhino squadrons in one shot. Note that both guns together count as one weapon, but it has two shots.

>>96162517
All or nothing AP has very clear merits, both mechanically and for gamefeel.

The point IS that heavy armor (like space marine power armor) feels impactful and significant against every weapon not custom made to deal with it. Terminators and marines are gods before small arms fire, but will die to an anti-tank gun like its nothing. The system also allows for guns which have conventionally powerful stats but are bad at dealing with set armor values.

Coming from WHFB (where armor is a granular modifier system impacted by strength) thats very different. Heavy armor in fantasy is a lot less impactful (relative to attacks) because it is much easier to invalidate. A knight is brought down to a 3+ armor save by a basic halberd, and gets a measly 5+ save against an enemy lance. This works for fantasy, a less lethal and higher model count system that revolves around slower, more mobility based gameplay, but does not suit the gamefeel of 40k, where a (THE) core fantasy revolves around dudes who shrug off 2000000 rounds of machine gun fire as they wade through hordes of inferior soldiers.

>>96162508
They actually flip-flopped on that since War of The Beast has them join the Last Wall and they donated gene-seed and marines to rebuild the IF

>>96162579
Basically: a more granular armor system lets durability be more fluid and malleable, but this ends up with homogenized damage and overall increases lethality. A less granular armor system allows for clear damage boundaries, which creates room for specialist weapons (and defensive profiles) which may otherwise not be really possible.

>>96157092 (OP)
You know? I really like Pertuabo but the one thing stopping me is the whole becoming a demon prince thing, fucking why? It just ruins him, is it really canon?

>>96162441
>Wayland are only making 10% profit on each saturnine box sold
Jesus fucking Christ, this is worse than Dominion

>>96162512
Good catch. I hadn't quite caught the implication but that's both funny and sad.

>>96162577
Any way to get WS5 Knights like 2e?

>>96161149
HOLY fuck thank you anon I was about to order at hobby workshop for £155 why is it so much cheaper at wayland?

>>96162621
He wants to be a weapon (he has autism)

>>96162646

Because Wayland is Europe's biggest TT retailer and don't want to be stuck with £50k of unmovable product clogging up their warehouse.

>>96162542
I didn't get this box for much the same reason as the AoD one. Fuck the nickel and diming with the contemptor weapons. Why the fuck are the other saturnine dread weapons on a tiny sprue separate?

>>96162577
Oh hell yes. I printed a 7" marker just for it.
>Ionic flare shield so it ignores armourbane
This... might be worse than just taking 1-3 damage. At least 7" blast is hard to miss, even with snap fire.

Thanks!

Yknow I hope with all these cool rules for titans I wonder if they'll finally pull the trigger on a 28mm plastic warhound and reaver. Also coincides with the winding down of FW operations.

>>96162646
because they're about to have their warehouse full of shit that no one wants to buy

less painful to take the hit and sell for zero profit than have it taking up space that could be filled by more profitable games.

>>96162621
He trascends his flesh and becomes a trascendent being. Why is that a bad thing? I'm not sure he's even bound to a master like his brothers. I'm sure he HAS to be, but it seems he's not playing anyone's games but his own.

Another few marines for my scouring era tac squads.

Waiting on the MK2 on Saturday to finish this squad off

>>96157092 (OP)
>all of this for under £200

Heresy bros… what’s up with this… am I buying a dead game?

>>96162678
Saturnine is DOA

>>96162441
Depends. I know two LGS owners who have said GW price for retailers depends on how much shelf space they have for GW products. If it's wall to wall GW, they get the best deal.

>>96162672
I’d like to know more about this, who has made him into a demon prince? Does it not have to be one or all of the gods? He just doesn’t seem like the type to submit to gods

>>96162689
It's possible he mutated into an equivalent of one. Corax did. He may not be a "Prince" in title, just classification.

>>96162676
What system you using in? I was heartbroken when after grav made a return with the refreshed tac squad box, devastators and centurions, that GW forgor to add grav to anything that wasn't random characters. Grav had such fun rules wounding on a target's armor save. I miss that as much as the old shokk attack gun effect table.

>>96162577
I got so excited for the big guns I forgot to ask points cost and the mortars stats. If you are willing, thanks!

>>96162683

> paying for journal slop

Please reconsider I beg you

>>96162689
Either he huffs ebough Obliterator virus to become a demon on his own, or maybe Vashtorr is his patron? Could also see him becoming an undiv8ded Prince like Belakor, since that seems to be the "inferiority complex" subfaction

>>96162683
Why the fuck does anyone buy books for a game that isn't even balanced or playtested. Seriously just pirate that shit. Physical books are like NFTs.

>>96162689
All four, as a reward for burning so much Fist gene-sperm. And this has been canon for 30 years. The only thing you could reasonably complain about is that Abnett changed it from an unintended coincidence to a deliberate plan.

>>96162683
HAHAHAHAHA HE ACTUALLY PAID FOR THAT SHIT

>>96162025

I'm just saying, Dominion became a joke in the entire community and the only thing they seemed to learn was... they needed to cancel large swathes of peoples armies every edition.

>>96162683
I, for one, approve of Anon's decision.

>>96162716
30k 2.0

I made a couple of "Late war" data sheets for common legion units along with a rite of war for loyalist legions that bridges the gap between legion and chapter organisation

>35% off pre release
Holy shit this is actually really really bad. HH is actually going to flop and probably die.

>>96162689
All we know is Perturabo NEEDED to become a Daemon Prince, as his soul was wounded by Fulgrim when he stole a part of it to fuel his own ascension. It is so implied in Slaves to Darkness by nurgle's emissary.
Headcanon time:
Perturabo didn't beat Angron into submission. He knew he was invincible. But Perty could control how he'd lose.
He fought Angron, bled him and was bled by him here and there. Some blood here, a bit more there. Until he made a blood circle on the ground. He then just convinced Angron ("let's bleed together and be brothers" - After De'Shea) to bleed on Terra, where it mattered.

The Iron Cage was the same. The fortress was "empty" because it was actually a giant summoning circle. Foundations salted with Istvaanian ash, drowned in brothers' blood.
With Dorn at the very center.

>>96162735
>>96162750

Oh, I kinda like the books anons… sorry I’ll delete

>>96162793
>>96162683
It's ok Anon, don't let the poorfags get you down

>>96162778
Via google it's down to around 250 ameri-bucks.

maybe i should just spam myrmidons

Here just to say my iron hands force I spent 2.9 building got totally fucked. Medusan immortals without volkit, melta, or chainswords is lame, so tons of units just gone. Gorgons got royally buggered in 3.0, the fact their blind is so hard to access removes any reason to bring them over just catafractii or tartaros. Iron fathers locked to terminator armor hits two custom models. Can’t attack with servo arms is stupid.
3.0 basically convinced me to become a 2.0 grognard.

>>96162682
GW might give them a few % off more, but it's not going to be much, and they are likely buying truckloads of shit. Your general game store is going to be buying at 45% off.
I'm opening a store soon and talking to the rep it's 45% off and free shipping on any order.

>>96162750
I don't think he paid for them, just had em in the basket.

>>96162854
Isn’t all that shit coming next week in the pdf?

>>96162633
HH 3.0 is such dogshit it could genuinely put Dark Sphere out of business

>>96162899
You really think they've playtested the pdf? Lol. It's gonna be another situation of some busted shit and some things you'll never take because they're pay-to-lose, like the legion shadowsword.

>>96162899
My understanding is the pdf is for missing units, not necessarily missing unit options
Breacher Veterans might be a thing so people can run their special weapon breachers but I wouldn't bet on legion specific stuff getting a 2nd entry

>>96162899

You'd be fucking lucky.
You think they're going to go back through every single unit, work out what they used to have, and restore every option? On top of adding all the legacy units?

*Some* Command options will get *some* mounts/armour options. You'll get *most* of the EB units back. Everything else is gone. Alt wargear is gone.

>>96162438

Is there anything in there that makes it so Knights aren't hit in rear armor in melee?

>>96162949
>>96162942
>>96162935

Right so I take that as a ‘yes’ the pdf is coming, stop seething go and play 2.0 you dinosaurs

>>96162854
>. Gorgons got royally buggered in 3.0,
Gorgons seem very good (for once). What are you on about? Theyre basically WS4 cenobium

>>96162854
>Can’t attack with servo arms is stupid
Oh no, whatever will you do without the free power fist. If only there was some function servo arms now did instead!

>>96162966
Nice cope

I don’t think you guys realize how bad the current situation is. If we are going down to 35% discounts on pre order AFTER weeks of a marketing blitz from GW hyping it as much as possible, once the marketing dies down 3.0 is going to make almost no sales. Which makes in turn means GW will stop supporting it with any kind of meaningful release.

I hate to say it, but unless you want HH to die you need to go out and buy Saturnine and the books and show GW and third parties that HH players exist and are worth catering to.

Dude there's got to be a better way of building a list. All I'm trying to do is make a list with a Vigilator, 2 Lerneans in LR Explorators and 1 Master Sergeant Command Squad in a LR Carrier, and seems impossible to make without having at least 3 HQ?

Is there a resource to look up most of the colorplates of a legion, unit, titan etc.?

The interesting thing about the 35% off is that GW has a strict MAP, companies are not going to break that unless GW gave them the thumbs up to do so.

>>96162966
> check it out, this guy is evaluating something before consuming it

>>96162854
Post models or your opinion will be discarded

>>96163002

How about I don't do that and just get my HH rules and models from people interested in making good content rather than profitable content

> maybe GW will stop churning HH
Good.

>>96163008
They do,but at the same time Wayland games isn’t a mom and pop shop. It’s one of the biggest wargame distributors in Europe. GW wouldn’t want to lose their business.

>>96163002
>thing is selling poorly during a big freakout by the fanbase
>therefore it will sell poorly in the future
The game will come out, if people play it and like it it will sell. If its bad and they dont it wont.

Assessing the future of the edition based on the momentary kneejerk bitching is stupid. It will life or die on its own merits. And if that ends up meaning HH "dies"? Good, clearly it deserved to.

>>96163008
Wayland does it all the time, they have stuff up there right now in other categories for 20-25% off, when MAP is 15% off.

>>96163002
>Actual honest-to-god shilling itt
Fuck the Saturnine box, and fuck the Libers. I'm still going to buy plenty of Rapiers, Tarantulas, and the new MKII assaults when they drop. Doesn't mean I have to buy actual garbage

>>96163034
Exactly. The new rapiers look good, so ill buy them. Same for new ass marines.

>>96162762
Dominion was bad but it at least took a few days for demand to collapse and it didn't go on sale at huge discount until 6 months after launch
This might be Gorkamorka 2

>>96162966
I am sorry I have a thing I like, that I have played and know I like, and don’t want to switch to a system that was sold to me on a lie of not being a change, that dramatically changes almost everything I liked about the previous system, and strips back so many units options that MIGHT be fixed later.

I'm planning on making a small solar auxilia allied force.
Are the resin infantry models better than the plastic ones?
I want to make a desert warfare themed force in tan, potentially with head wraps like the tallarn ones over the helmets

>>96163022
On ebay (US) you are starting to see some shops going below the MAP, my local shop is doing ~35% off. I don't think this is just a giant retailer thing.

>>96163077
Maybe GW is allowing it for the launch box. Probably makes sense to take a chance on lower margins vs a launch completely failing and potentially killing the game.

>>96163017
My iron hands vs sons of horus.

>>96162935
So, exactly like the paid books but free, then.

>>96163094
>Maybe GW is allowing it for the launch box
That's my thought. Enough retailers might have called their rep and ripped them a new asshole for pushing hundreds of boxes on them that aren't moving.

I’m actually proud of the community and the leaker. The leaker wrought massive financial damage to GW and the community stuck to their guns on the awful changes and didn’t scab out.

>>96162854
Just play with the options. You modeled them. I'm sure any reasonable opponent would allow he proper points paid to grandfather them in.

Servo arms are really good for either reason now, such as their intended use.

>>96162979
They're also missing their combi bolters. Which is 4 shots each now.

>>96163125
The leaker = Erebus
The community = the traitor legions
GW = the Emperor of Mankind

>>96163125
you're an idiot

>>96163150
Wasn’t the traitors the ones who wanted to make massive changes to how the imperium would function going forward? By putting themselves, and their legions, at the forefront of the imperium, thus remaking it in their image?

>>96163138
>They're also missing their combi bolters. Which is 4 shots each now.
This one is so obviously a mistake that I dont even consider it. But sure, if you do take that in mind they are missing the buff to firepower that other terminators got, although theyre still very solid for the cost (especially since 5++ 5+++ is numerically superior to 4++)

>>96163125
Same here. Got banned from the discord for asking what was the censored text on the leaks. Turned out the one I was looking at was simply complaining about painters not being paid enough. Glad to see the community banding together.

>>96162637
I'm still going through it, there are some bonuses I could see from different prime advantages, but I don't think I saw any straight +1WS.

However, knights are very hard to pin down, can't do challenges, have auto hit stomps and can get firestorm, they're going to be fairly decent at taking deathstar units on their own terms.
They're also swimming in AP3 and AP2 shooting.

>>96162660
Knights have some good access to auto-repair and battlesmith.

Imperial knights have a reaction that allows every knight on the field to make a repair roll at the end of a turn if you scored an objective, which is pretty cool.

Mechanicum knights can take multiple battlesmith (2) knights (counting as IN 8), but imperials can still take 0-1 of them.

>>96162952
Yes, they are explicitly hit on the front in melee.

Why are 5 Recons with shotguns are more expensive than 5 Seekers?

>>96162717
Asterius is 750, porphyrion is 725

Mortar is small blast, poisoned and phage (T)

>>96163150
Pardo = Magnus
(wanted to warn GW but destroyed the discordway allowing leaks to occur)

>>96163235
smokescreen I guess?

>>96163176
Was it a mistake to take my gorgon heavy guns and graviton guns too? And remove gorgon armored characters? Just like the tartaros power fist?

>>96162935
You're 100% wrong. They removed the legion shadowsword

>>96163248
>Was it a mistake to take my gorgon heavy guns and graviton guns too?
Probably not, no.
>And remove gorgon armored characters?
Nope.

Those have a real potential to be a conscious choice. "they dont have the guns the model comes with" on the other hand? Thats clearly a typo/misprint/whatever you want to call it.

>>96163235
I guess they're paying 5 points extra for the shotguns now? They cost the same as in 2.0 for a Nemesis squad, so I'm guessing the writers thought stun(0) and smokescreen was worth 5 points.

>>96163002
I still only see 15%.
>>96163026
I think you underestimate how big box sets are for GW. They make a significant amount from people who buy a box at launch and do nothing with it.

>>96163251
I was referring to the fact that for the majority of 2.0, things like Fulmentarus in the pdf were busted, whereas the legion/militia superheavies were overcosted like shit, e.g. shadowsword.

I'm so glad that /hhg/ (and only /hhg/) has so many experts on GW's internal workings to offer clear, concise, and contradictory analysis!

>>96163275
Sure, an underwhelming launch will probably hurt their quarterlies. The future of games or editions is not decided in the preorder window, the bulk of the sales will not be in the preorder window.

>>96163268
>new HH head on Tortuga Bay body

>>96162935
>It's gonna be another situation of some busted shit and some things you'll never take because they're pay-to-lose
Anon youre just describing 2.0