Creepin' up on you edition
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>>96157092>HH 3.0 Leakshttps://imgur.com/a/jYokLre
https://files.catbox.moe/98h6h7.pdf
https://gofile.io/d/cnJk0N
>Mech Leakshttps://imgur.com/a/lRaqKSw
>SA Gofilehttps://gofile.io/d/YEEqBN
>New Edition upon ushttps://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/setting/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads:https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>Thread FAQ (very old, remembers Age of Terra)https://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8
https://pastebin.com/8riDmnhS
>30k TACTICA & TIPShttps://pastebin.com/Tm2P4QLp
https://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Age_of_Darkness-Warhammer_30k/2.0_Tactics/General_Tactics
ใAdeptus Titanicus and Legions Imperialisใ
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloadshttps://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/legions-imperialis/
>List of Titan Legions with Badges and Colourshttps://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17Jccq0V--SwJifLVLwbisYnQeqLlS2pMSiPbGXp1Brs/htmlview
>More listshttps://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_Titan_Legions
>What size magnets do I need?5x1mm
>Tacticshttps://1d6chan.miraheze.orug/wiki/Adeptus_Titanicus/Tactics
>Thread question: Do you really, sincerely, care about all these youtuber advertisers and why?
Does anybody have the knight weapon pages?
>>96164185 (OP)>TQAbsolutely not, and I have no intention to get to know the Discord trannies currently raiding this general either.
Also saturnine stonks have gone up 2 letter grades for me because I found out you can just NOT put the big stupid shoulders on, and suddenly they look pretty cool.
I run Scars, so it makes sense as a way to justify their +2" of movement anyway.
>>96164185 (OP)>TQI don't even care about what /hhg/ thinks, so why would I care about YouTubers?
>>96164222There are a lot, but do you have any specific requests?
>>96164185 (OP)Why are Saturnine terminators in the Istvaan V diorama?
>>96164242Because the salamanders used them the most, and per the new book they lost 94% of their entire strength on Isstvan V
>>96164242Why wouldn't they be?
>>96164233can you not just take a photo?
>>96164137>The only pictorial evidence for Armillus Dynat is when he sparred with Marius Gage over the conduct of the war after the Ultramarines' repulsed attack during the Battle of Asarna Bay.
>>96164242Because fuck you, buy new thing.
>>96164260There are a lot of pages of weapons, which is why I'm asking which you'd like a photo of
>yes blast weapons too iirc, which is funny when you are throwing them a couple inches from you
afaik the only restriction is no blast in reactions, right?
And vehicles only reacting with defensive weapons
It is my opinion that 1.0 with tweaks is the superior system. It is also my opinion that 3.0 is massive shit and does very little right. Force your players to play 1.0 or 2.0. Take charge of your playgroup and boss the fuck out of them to avoid this edition. Models are a different storyโฆperhaps.
>>96164282Volley fire isn't a reaction. Wait, if you upgrade a volley fire to a reaction, you become unable to throw the blasts you could before?
>>96164185 (OP)>Do you really, sincerely, care about all these youtuber advertisers and why?I do not give the slightest single fuck of what they think or have to say. I will never meet them. I will never play against them. They operate a business on the internet, which means they have to blow everything out of proportions and join in on any hyperbole bandwagon. Because to stand out on the internet, to remain relevant, you have to be the loudest most obnoxious motherfucker in the room. There is no room for nuance, because nobody takes the time to listen any more, nevermind have the attention span for it.
Which leads to all the warhammer YT channels that make it being run by obnoxious attention whores, who couldn't care less about the actual hobby itself. Fuck 'em.
>>96164242>created on Saturn>but used during the end of the Unification Wars on Terra>but also first seen on Isstvan V
>>96164242Because the new saturnine lore is that Istvaan V was the first fielding of the new saturnine units by several legions, happening shortly after their dispatch to the various legions. The salamanders subsequently lost most of theirs when they all died, and the entire mark of armor ended up out of production by the end of the war, going extinct.
>>96164296Correct the imo though in terms of what you need to fix to make it into a better version of itself
1.0 has a lot more core changes that need to happen to fix it, but 2.0 has a lot of tweaking that is easy to fix
1.0 needs a complete psyker overhaul, buff to terminators a rebalancing of templates and ap it can be done and would be great
>>96164299No I'm retarded, you can't fire barrage weapons in reaction/volley fire. mb
>>96164268I would like a photo of all of them :3
>>96164296"little tweaks" generally means reworking all the weapons in the game, because 1.0 was just about how many AP2 blasts you could shit out.
>>96164185 (OP)I will not watch reviews or batrepw. I will not buy the books. I will not mindlessly rage because a person on a Mongolian basketweaving forum told me to. I will play the game using the rules off the internet and if I don't like them I will change them.
>>96164233Got a snappy of the castigator's bolt cannon (I imagine this would be a table of quite a lot of weapons)?
Lol
Lmao even
That's a 60 quid refund for me
>>96164345God I hope some US shops do this.
>>96164344Thereโs a โmove half or less and you count as stationary for Heavy and Ordnanceโ prime slot which makes the castigator a veteran squad deleter
>>96164345Now, when will this trickle down to bits sellers. I still can't find a set of 3 Saturnine for less than 50โฌ (with S&H, taxes, etc.)
>>96164325>>96164338Psyker rules seemed simpler in 2.0 and just rejig some of the crazy stuff. AP 2 pie plates can be changed around easy peasy but still make the big guns worth taking. Terminators do need a change for sure. Maybe an increase to toughness or wounds?
>>96164320I do like how saturnine terminator armour is basically the Panzer II of marine armour
>Big>Heavy>Overly complicated>Very difficult and expensive to fabricate>Difficult to maintainSpecially considering how much the power armour marks development story draws from the first British tanks development. If you know you know.
>>96164345God I couldn't care less.
>>96164370Aren't knights super heavies?
>>96164357They won't, GW already rapes them with the colony tax.
>>96164377>Blows up to a rando with a meltagunis probably the 30k equivalent of a rando with a bazooka
>>96164382You could, if you put your heart to it
>>96164370>Dogshit melee against hordes >The most cancerous shooting imaginable Truly balanced.
>>96164370Can we get pictures of the knight subtype rules, especially with how they work in combat?
>>96164319>The saturnine Ordos were helping the Emperor on Terra before the astartes even existed.Wtf are they doing over there.
>>96164345HH really finna kill companies out here
>>96164233NTA but I'd like to see paradigms & detachments.
over
md5: 279ea2c3554fb6af52e582efa8418e7c
๐
>>96164345Oh fuck it is Gorkamorka 2
>>96164386They actually aren't, but get their own set of unique benefits.
Knights are just Vehicle (Knight)
>>96164401>>96164416Their Tempest Warblade is AP D2 with Reaping Blow (6) and Aflame (2) which makes leadership checks in the same phase -2, which is extra funny because knights can't even lose combat because they're vehicles
Also since knights are just another vehicle, they actually have an easier time triggering reaping blow than terminators which is funny as hell.
10 S9 AP2 D2 attacks is going to put a dent in any squad
They also all have the stomp reaction, which is strong
>>96164314Finished these fancy lads
>>96164435My regular opponent has a Castigator and I have an Atrapos. Truly our battles will be legendary.
>>96164417This is all I could find, all the other rules for vehicles apply to them too so do bear those in mind as well
>>96164223If you don't like big shoulder pads, do you even warhammer, bro?
>>96164450They're such gorgeous models.
>>96164451You have a non-zero chance to just kill his castigator in one shooting phase, itโs even uglier in melee
Also as an aside, I canโt stress enough how strong titans look. Even reavers and warhounds, which can both easily be taken at 3k
>>96164345each time there's a big flop like this a lot of FLGS stop selling GW, and especially stop selling any 30k product. They have to pay 45% of the box so if they end up having to do 40% to get rid of boxes they're making nothing towards their bank loans and expenses (electricity for AC, etc.)
>>96164474>atrapos can one shot a leviathan from 36" away with its grav cannon
>>96164329You can fire Barrage Weapons during reactions in the Solar Auxilia Apparently.
>>96164345I saw 10 x mkvi get as low as 18 burger bux on ebay after 2.0.
Holding out for 20 burgers on mkii before I go in on bulk buying.
>>96164345b-but dont they know? pardo said 3.0 is good actually.
>>96164460Why go out of their way to make say that knights can't be transports?
Just don't make a transport knight you dumb fucks
>>96164268I'm mostly interested in the porphyrion and rapid fire battle cannon.
>>96164474So uh does Overload count Ordnance?
>>96164474What does the Acheron melee weapon do?
>AP 3 Hellstorm template when stationaryI love the smell of promethium in the morning.
>>96164460Hmmm... So it looks like enemies hit against their WS4, but as per vehicle rules, will hit the rear armor.
>>96164518The Neutron-wave battery (as the porphys guns are now called. Note its one "gun" for both arms together) is R120 FP4 RS12 AP2 D4 Ordnance (D), Armourbane, Shock (Stunned)
So just a casual 32 damage potential, no big deal
>>96164524So they will get fucked probably even if thunder hammers hit them.
>>96164474So at a possible damage(10) the singularity cannon can oneshot any primarch right?
>>96164553I'd hope so, its a fucking black hole gun.
>>96164545Even krak grenades. Since they suffer status effects, if they're glanced before combat they're striking at I1 also, until they roll a 5+ to remove a single status.
>>96164474The attrapos looks fucking scary
>>96164544Seems kinda awful for the reason of being stuck pointing 4 templates at the same spot. Sad.
>>96164545With their speed, ability to walk over units with zero penalty and ridiculous shooting, I wouldn't count on thunder hammers being the solution
Although even THs are only S7 now, that means they still need a 5+ to pen against AV11
>>96164544No longer an ap2 pie plate tho, so a bit more restrictive in the targets
>>96164474>reaver at 3k750 point reaver? Wtf.
>>96164553If they don't die to the phasecutter's D12, yes
>>96164570They can split fire
>>96164524From last thread, can only hit knights on front armor in melee
Can someone post the Vindicator please?
>>96164474>reavers easily be taken at 3kfucking how??
are they that cheap??
Is a warhound 500p?
>>96164586Yeah, if you take a Titanicus army you can spend as much on your 1 LoW as you want, you then get a bunch of slots to add in marines/mech/auxilia
They also get secutarii, who are immune to the titans AOE characteristic debuffs
>>96164592The new way to split fire is a weapon by weapon basis, so not really.
>>96164599That's what they said last thread, but can't find any rule that supports it.
>>96164592Splitting fire is firing different weapons at different targets, not assigning different targets for different shots from the same weapon. Unless knights have a special rule, that 32 damage is going into one target.
>>96164592It's merged to a single gun apparently.
>>96164606Is there any way to add marines to a knight army?
so now is the perfect opportunity to switch to LIgma, right?
>>96164602>>96164586You can make an army thatโs a titan and its support elements
They all but state you should only play this with the titan specific missions
Reavers are 1500, warhounds are 750, you can buy extra ballistic skill for a non trivial amount of points
>>96164627Oddly enough, no. But titans can add marines.
>>96164633Not gonna lie. The titan rules in 3.0 got me fully erect.
>>96164633Is the warhound looking feasable as a LoW choice for other armies? Do you have any of the weapons?
>>96164628Oh that looks pretty decent.
I'll probably run the two I have then.
Thanks.
>>96164628D6 demolisher looks like fun antitank now that you don't do 1HP and nothing else since it didn't have ap2
>>96164319lazy or malicious, in the current year of our lord, i don't trust the motive behind trying to canonize saturnine armor like this
>>96164648They have a lot of pages dedicated to how they work, but the tldr:
-Turning a titan at all costs 10" of movement
-Titans cause panic checks to anything they walk over
-Titans can END their movement on top of non-vehicles, and if they do they cause big damage
-Titans have hull points for sections, but getting those to 0 only exposes the armor. You need to keep repeatedly hitting that spot with big damage weapons to actually cause it to go down.
-Void shields are really strong, and the crew skill you pay for affects the chance to bring them back online.
-Titans automatically repair hull points with their repair crews, checks required
-Titans do not fight in the assault phase, they just automatically cause big damage to units they're engaged with. They can then walk away the next turn and cause even more trouble by stepping on their opponents, being in melee with one is really dangerous
>>96164649It's not bad, but if you take it as a LoW detachment then it can only be 750 points at 3k, which means you get the BS3 version. That's not necessarily the end of the world because you've got blasts and automatic hits too.
Warhounds don't have the Reinforced Structure (x) rule (basically eternal warrior for titans), but they still have void shields and take a lot of punishment to actually bring down.
>>96164377History nerds are invariably the best people you can have write background content like this and GW needs more of them.
>People complaining about Saturnine terminators being introduced
Where were you motherfuckers when FW jammed in sicarans, dickbikes, leviathans...
>>96164698Sicarians are cool though.
>>96164698They weren't here.
2nd edition brought in a lot of folks who now feel invested in the heresy that they know.
>>96164698It's always gonna be a challenge to retroactively add in new toys to what is a kinda historical game
I wonder with this much focus on titans, if we'll see them release 28mm plastic warhound and Reaver at minimum.
>>96164709The amount of newfags that flooded in as a result of 2.0 is so depressing. Easily the worst part of the entire edition.
>>96164319>>but also first seen on Isstvan VIt was specifically the fresh crop that was first seen on Isstvan V. The suits made with the know-how Vulkan shared with the other legions.
>>961646981.0 never went
>Oh hey they just invented Sicarans and Dorn loaded them all up in the Retribution fleet, that's why you didn't see any in HH1 Betrayal, only just now in HH2 MassacreThe just made fluff suggesting they had been in the legion armouries for years. I think people complained about Saturnine because nostalgia bait + mega ass bulky
Are there the weapon options for armiger moriax?
>>96164752Saturnines were explicitly stated to exist in 1.0
>>96164787Grav gun good. 2 3" s6 ap3 breaching 6+ pinning (2) heavy (d) blasts per. Lightning gun okay. Claws will blow up vehicles, 2 is overkill.
>>96164752>>96164788Saturnine where just a pattern of terminator armor, not some 4m tall pseudo dreadnoughts
Literally no one asked for that
>>96164633Pics of the Ranks or Paradigms?
>>96164752>The just made fluff suggesting they had been in the legion armouries for yearsNTA but isn't the fluff for saturnine literally "yeah we've had it forever but it was utter dogshit for the price until Vulkan made it actually useable"?
>>96164345>Its a race to the bottom>Shills will still try and say that 3.0 is not a fucking mega flop
>>96164813No, its still absolute dogshit for the price, just the sort of dogshit you might use in a desperate moment rather than the sort of dogshit you leave in a shed and go pilfer the militia for weapons. Its still explicitly impractical.
>>96164821Aight, cmon. What is everyone betting is the biggest % discount we see even before the fucking release lol?
>>9616483135% preorders
40% black friday
>>96164698people laughed at the dickbikes
>>96164788they are taking a super common "um akshually", and saying "no, we are specifically making the retards correct on this one"
>discounts even before release
it's dead isn't it?
>>96164831So ok if we are assuming the biggest discount BEFORE the release?
Im gonna go with 40%, but we wont see that till like Friday
Post release? I think we could see this thing at 45% within a month.
Beyond that easily 50%
>>96164851Its already at 35% anon lol.
>>96164345Guys calm down, It's just 11PM fire sale days before the release date, that could mean anything.
>>96164859>there are people who actually believe this though.
>>96164856It's the middle of the night in Britain right now, it hasn't even begun
>>96164871Not this asshole again, ugh.
>>96164875Well I wish they'd spread some of that sale frenzy across the pond, retards still expect me to pay 50 bucks for a saturnine praetor and a 100 bucks for 2 libers.
>>96164804I have purchased the grav gun.
I also bought an entire armiger just so I could get the lightning locks but whatever.
RAAAAAAGGGHHHHHH
>*smacks you in the face with AP3 breaching 4+*
>>96164698Being told to shut the fuck up and not besmirch the good name of Forge World and St. Bligh.
>>96164915Give it a day or two this is going to spread.
Two of Britain's biggest LGS's basically declaring Saturnine DOA is not something they can brush under the rug
>>96164947I dont know how anyone can honestly think it is not a flop.
a 35% discount? on a fucking major edition upgrade launch? WTF?
>>96164947There's a few other places in the UK i've been keeping an eye on the numbers, and these places with 20,22% off usually haven't shifted even 15% of the stock. This is fucking unprecedented levels of slow. The goddamn LIMP mechanicus stuff sold out in a week by comparison.
>>96164314Here's an old dogshit castigator I did as a test for my atrapos, I'm going to strip it and restart once it's not on the other side of the country.
Currently working on a mhara Ghal on holy shit is this model a pain.
Guys there's got to be a way to build lists on the phone
I just write which units I want, then sum to see if I can afford them, then cry because I should've planned which HQ I wanted first, not what army, and terminators exist in three different slots (Heavy Assault, Retinue and Elites), so I gotta bring another Centurion
>>96164970whats your magic gonna do nerd?
What's going on?
>>96164345The state.
>>96164314Along with the new guns Bossman got his carapace redone. Normally I don't repaint a model unless it's the entire model, but I'll do Laserbeak and The Pale King's carapaces too. Later.
I can't even remember what is a retcon or not anymore. Saturnine was just a mention, what about contemptors? Does dreadnoughts even real?
>>96164927Does not give a shit about objectives.
>it is bad but it feels right
>>96164859>11PMI think the most damning thing about the sale literally starting at 30 minutes to midnight is that it means the Darksphere guy is literally losing sleep over Saturnine
>>96165064KEK thats funny as fuck.
>>96165045their sole purpose is to kill, and they absolutely do not give a shit about being hit either
>EW 1 so fuck your autocannons, lascannons, powerfists and thunder hammers
>>96165076>drops a 5" black hole on unothin personnel, mareene
>>9616509430k games end with most forces wiped out on both sides.
>This is what I want to see
Really looking forward to these boxes being broken down so I can buy all the saturnine guys.
>>96164996ascend to the ninth circle of Hkehk Tits to teleport you to a universe where your dad loved you
>>96164345>Buy 2.0 launch box at a big discount>Gonna do the same thing with 3.0 soon enough
>>96165156It's gonna rock. I can't wait to chop up some termies into some stupid shit
You are a terminator sergeant, and can give the order to do volley fire during a charge. Do you do it?
>>96165180Yes, because I'm only 1" away anyway.
>>96164988I do my lists in chunks. I'll figure out a couple units I want to take, add their points to the total, and then figure out if I need another character.
>>96165180Not in fucking cataphractii I don't, lmao.
Tartaros might be able to get away with it but not you.
>>96164859hurry everyone CANCEL YOUR PREORDERS. We can get the price down 40% a week from now if this giga-flop continues. I know you've got 40+ unpainted models your lazy ass should be working on this week instead of consooming.
No more knight leaks? Paradigms? Vows? Ranks?
>>96165163>Buy AoD box for $200 a few weeks ago>Pre-order Saturnine box today for $200Things are looking up for me.
>>96164859Ok Grotsnik, time to go back to dakkadakka.
>>96165222>cancel an order that doesn't exist
>>96165239>fell for it at 200It's gonna go lower, bro. It's like when I bought AOS Dominion for $99.
>>96165256I'll pick up another if it gets to 150. Doubt it will go to half price, I think GW learned their lesson from age of shitmar to not make such a huge initial print run.
The box will just live in perpetuity at game stores.
The AoS Dominion box too years to disappear from my LGS
>>96165286I doubt they learned. With 60 warcom articles on HH3 and 10,000 posts of discussion, they thought they suddenly had a new ultra-hype hit. Anyone who found themselves unable to get the starter would most likely simply skip buying HH3 at all, so GW probably overproduced a fuckload. It's not GW that feels the real burn during this flop, they get $141 upfront for each box from our FLGS here even if the game store ends up having to basically give them away for $20-30 profit. GW has an incentive to print a fuckload. It's FLGS that bear the financial problems.
GW can consider it a loss-leader. If it drops to $160 and store only makes $15, GW got paid plenty and now that person will probably buy some $51 rapier kits because they're a "HH player" now. All the non-starter boxes will earn a fat wad for GW if anyone becomes a plastic addict after the cheap starter.
>>96165286>I think GW learned their lesson from age of shitmar to not make such a huge initial print run.They really, really haven't, this is so much worse than Dominion, at least that made it a few months before being offered at this steep a discount
>>96165378Third party stores offering discounts means nothing for GW. They already got their money from those third party stores. This only affects the latter.
And honestly, this is mostly on them, not GW. A week before the pre-orders go live stores have to place an order at GW for how much product they want. Clearly a lot of third party stores were being fucking stupid, and thought HH 3 was similar to a 40k edition release. It is not.
>>96165378This. The highest cost in the box will be the rulebook too, the models are all non-exclusive plastic sculpts that will be released separately so the molds were going to be made no matter what.
Once they have the designs made and the molds created, actually pushing plastic out is low cost by comparison. They can afford to over produce because their primary sales channel is about getting distributors (and then LGS as a distant second) to buy the big waves.
If the boxes get too cheap, the natural market reaction will be to split them up and sell the components separately. Unlike in AoS, having a bunch of cheap Mk2 marines available is going to have wide appeal for many existing HH players, so demand can balance out the high supply to some degree.
This is all to say: GW won't learn their lesson, because the game was rigged from the start.
>>96165405game stores stock hundreds of different products. It's quite unreasonable to expect them to know the ins and outs of a product that hasn't even launched yet enough to know the rules are dogshit.
And the problem is not that the boxes aren't doing "40k numbers". We're talking entire stores moving 0-1 box in 10 days of launch. That's like Warhammer Underworlds numbers, not even The Old World or a warhammer side game.
We don't have the full titan rules yet right?
>>96165419>We're talking entire stores moving 0-1 box in 10 days of launch.You know, if you let your hyperbole get too crazy, then you're just lying.
>S6 AP4 D2 Heavy (AP) Hellstorm template.
This thing looks quite spooky in tank Cohorts. Especially since pivots don't count as moving. Slap on the Flareshield for Ghetto AV14 and you should be good to go.
>>96165431Saturday, July 12, 2025, 15 copies
today July 23, 2025, same 15 copies still there.
Yeah, you're a faggot in turbo COPE mode.
>>96165419>It's quite unreasonable to expect them to know the ins and outs of a product that hasn't even launched yetIf they want to run a successful game store, they need to have a decent enough grasp of each game's popularity to make predictions on how popular a product will be that are roughly accurate.
Any game story ordering more than 10 boxes of a HH product was being complete idiots. I have a few friends that run game stores who do also carry GW products, and they've told me HH 2.0 was a slow burner. There was no huge spike of sales at launch that completely dried up soon after. As a result, they ordered a conservative amount of Saturnine. If more people wanted it than expected, they knew they could just order more because it's not a limited product, it would just arrive a bit later for those customers. Which is a vastly preferable situation than ordering waaaay to many of a product and ending up being unable to get rid of all the surplus. And guess what, those stores did sell out their initial batch.
Third party stores pre-ordering too much stock and not being able to sell it all are just lining GW's pockets. You can celebrate it all you like, but be aware that it teaches GW nothing, because they already got their money.
>see a lot of posts about saturnine boxes not selling and that if you wait long enough, you can get the boxes for cheap
>check the stores where I usually buy things
>https://store.401games.ca/products/warhammer-the-horus-heresy-age-of-darkness-saturnine
>https://shop.fenrisworkshop.com/products/horus-heresy-age-of-darkness-saturnine-eng?variant=47503734407418
>literally sold out
>check some other stores via google shopping
>no where near 35% off people are claiming in Canada
Why are some retards devolving /hhg/ to sales posting, I'm not going to play your streamer's home brew edition.
>>96165508I love the IW hammer+board models, just so cool
>>96165502Just ignore him, some posters here hyperfixate and tilt at the same windmill over and over again while trying to get other people to join.
>>96165522Correct, You being silent is the best medicine for losing an argument because you're detached from reality. Pleasse continue to do it forever.
>>96165502Bc there is nothing more retarded than doomers
>>96165508There is no justifiable reason for demolisher cannons to be Blast 3" except they're too conscious of making them powerful.
>>96164319ST-TOP NOTI-ICING THINGS!!!
BUY THE LATEST WARHAMMER THE HORUS HERESY THE SCOURING NOVEL!!!!!!!
>>96164859This is hilarious but it's also probably a BIG bulk buyer problem (Weyland, Dark Sphere). They buy a shit ton because they expect to immediately sell them out. They don't have the physical inventory space to hold 90% of their stock for more than a week before the NEXT GW dump truck rolls up with MORE 'GOTTA SELL!!!' shit.
I don't see FLGS with only five or six boxes going firesale. They can afford to sit on it longer
>>96165405>Third party stores offering discounts means nothing for GW.>Means nothing to GWThis means a fucking LOT. Becuase it means FLGS wont stock GW product more then they have to.
If GW product is not moving, they wont be buying more of it, 40k is VERY expensive for shop owners to maintain realistate for, and if a fucking box that should have been a hit is flopping this fucking bad, bro thats not good for GW.
>>96164855That's two of the biggest UK indie retailers now Wayland and Darksphere. If Element follow suit even MDG won't be able to contort himself enough to argue there isn't a trend.
>>96165411>This. The highest cost in the box will be the rulebook too>He thinks the dread will cost less then the rule book>He thinks the Saturnine wont cost less then the Rulebook.
>>96165579Apart from 7"+ blasts that had different profiles for each radial ring, it's kinda hard to balance imo. If you make it 5" you get 1.0 parking lots all over again. 3" and you get fucked if the guy is spacing properly. Or you go for 5" but weaker AP etc and you end up with the useless basilisks etc in 2.0 with AP4 templates that do fuck all.
>>96165405GW have had to offer at-cost buybacks for their worst flops a couple of times, just so they can try and make sure as much of the overstock as possible gets mulched instead of being sold at huge(in their delusional minds brand-devaluing) discounts. Dunno if we're there yet, but I've never seen Darksphere offer more than 25% on anything GW before and usually for launch boxes you'll be happy if you get 20%, so feeling the need to follow Wayland in giving 35% is...indicative.
>he's financially dependent on 3.0 being a success
>>96165598>Becuase it means FLGS wont stock GW product more then they have to.That's.... how you properly run a small business, yes. Are you really too retarded to understand this? Or are you genuinely trying to argue that third party stores ordering more stock than they can shift is good for any of the parties involved? That would be especially retarded.
GW isn't reliant on third party stores, they have their own stores and webstore to actually gauge genuine interest. They don't need poorly run webstores that should have went under due to poor management long ago for that.
>>96165622It was wild, in there were people in the Shitty age of darkness discord trying to say that fucking 35% discounts is nothing out of the norm.
>>96165622True, but that's usually years down the line. And isn't standard practice for all products. Heck, I know of a LGS that ordered a ton of the Space Hulk box when GW did a second run, banking on it being more popular than the first time. To this day there's still more than half a dozen of those Space Hulk boxes on their shelves gathering dust.
>>96165625No, dipshitoid, he's arguing that the claim FLGS overstocks "have no impact on GW" is nonsense because while it may not impact their sales of the specific product that was over-ordered, in the medium term it reduces their market penetration and opens up space for competitors in those stores.
>>96165628Oh god that cesspool. Fun fact - realSnice is a goddamn goonhammer shill that's also coincidentally a jannie there. They weren't pleased when I pointed out they said in an article "just break out those clippers!". And by not pleased I mean I got banned 1 minute later.
>>96165602It's just 3 retailers. Three. Retailers. Do you. Have data from every shop. In the U.K? How many boxes were made for the U.K?
>>96165606This isnโt a bad idea. Would the radial thing cause too much bookkeeping you think?
>>96165644When one random FLGS overorders it's meaningless. When two of the biggest gaming store brands with huge website sales and their own physical stores both feel the need to have a firesale *before the product even launches* there are only really two conclusions possible: either both of those stores have so massively overestimated demand that they're panicking, or demand is objectively shit in general. I know which my money would be on, given I don't recall this happening with either store before.
>>96165658Wayland and alchemist are 2 of the better known ones in the UK as they do 20%. Element only does 15 but it's still single digits in terms of the most popular stores.
>>96165645This.
If the big launch box of HH 3.0 is a dud, to a store owner that is indicitive that HH as a whole is not a fast moving or popular product to keep stocked. So, GW is going to be losing out on sales from FLGS in the future because the reliability of the HH line is not good. Best case for GW, FLGS order more shelf space for 40k, worst case and more likely, they will take that floor space and dedicate it to a more profitable product with a smaller foot print.
FLGS have to consider profit in combonation with the amount of space it takes up in a store. WH is VERY expensive to stock and maintain. It needs lots of shelf space, lots of table space, and lots of storage space. Vs something like a card game that is much more compact for how much money it makes.
>>96165645That's more nebulous longer term, and not directly measurable financial impact. Most companies barely care about something like that, and as long as GW remains the largest miniature wargame company in the world by a fucking huge margin with 40k and AoS, I highly doubt they'll even notice.
>>96165650> Lord Tranny, Code Troon> 'Lady' (with a penis) Aurora> And how many othersDisgusting
>>96165667>Most companies barely care about something like thatWhen you are a FLGS that live, breaths, eats and sleeps on your overhead? Its VERY fucking important to you.
Then you jsut get tragedy of the masses where a lot of FLGS have to deal with this and now thats hitting GWs bottom line because the product and range they dumped a LOT of money and time into is not doing well as a result.
You seem to be thinking in short term quarterly profits, this is going to have ramifications on the long term 3 year cycle plan.
Im sure Quarterly GW will be fine maybe great, but thats counting your chickens before they hatch.
>>96165669They cope HARD in that discord lol.
and its funny because even this time around they are struggling to not look like retards, even today someone was talking about weyland and the walrus said that they are not a big retailer.
>>96165684>You seem to be thinking in short term quarterly profitsI don't, but companies and there shareholders do, as that is the only thing they care about. That's my entire point.
>>96165650Realsnice is also one of pardos WhatsApp admins
Can yall just make a "rooting for GW's downfall" general or something? Tired of wfg being schizo posts about how AoS is on death's door, the anon scraping sales figures for Saturnine here, etc. I like seeing discussion about 1e, 2e, or 3e. But the schizo posters aren't discussing the game or hobby, and thus don't belong here.
>>96164314my phone is borken :(
>>96164314All I have on my desk is a half assembled storm raven that I will be plasticarding into a storm eagle.
>>96165741>Can yall just make a "rooting for GW's downfall" general or something?Sir? This is a wendys, we serve food here.
>>96165759I am just tired of the discussion here turning away from the hobby.
I kinda like the MKII marines but I don't buy excessively tall boys as they don't fit in with the old shit. The dread looks okay but doesn't look like it belongs in warhammer or space mariney enough (and it's damn big). Termis are too fucking huge, doa and just centurion reskins.
I really wish they'd fuck off with scale creep. So many models look fucked up next to eachother and now just make Primarchs look bad and they were already big as fuck and an issue in themselves. God some consistency would be nice.
>>96165774>Bitching about GW and the state of the game>This is not part of teh hobby.Anon we have been bitching about this game for over a decade, thats part of the hobby.
Its when no one is bitching about it you know its dead.
Distain for something is not the opposite of love, indifference is.
>>96165774> 'The Hobby'I only ever hear this phrase from GW shills
>>96165780I don't think the scale is going to grow anymore. They are at a decent size
>>96165790Because it's part of their employee indoctrination. The Games Workshop hobby - as opposed to miniature wargaming, model building, figurine painting, or any of the other generic descriptions thereof - is explicitly intended to place Games Workshop at the center of things.
After all, you can't participate in the Games Workshop hobby if you aren't buying Games Workshop products and playing Games Workshop games.
>>96165502Your local store were not retards and ordered enough product. Here in England some stores ordered way too much.
>>96165809Oh I understand what it is.
I just like to point it out so the shills know I KNOW they are filthy shills
>>96165579Demolisher cannons are D6 if you stand still.
These days they're bad at killing infantry but they fuck up dreads and tanks.
>>96165658Wayland are pretty huge here in the UK. they sell a lot of stuff.
>canโt wait to purchase this gaming product
>>96165848>Here in EnglandIt's 3AM in England, go to bed
>>96165759how you get so morbidly obese, eating food of this kind?
>>96165890Any time I get tempted to play 40k again, I just look at a picture of it being played.
I wish the horus heresy box flopped here in the united states. I wouldnt mind buying it for $150
>>96165890>Flat table>"Gaming mat">L shaped unpainted MDF building>Mouse pad objective markets.JFC this picture is draining my soul.
Just cancelled my pre-order. I actually think it might be time to fire sale and fully divest my GW stuff.
>>96165890average 40k slop consumer
>>96165953buy a 3d printer, steal rules and play whatever you want
>>96164633Would you be willing to just snap pics of the knight chassis, rules, weapons and dump into an imgur or something?
>>96164633Did GW forget the dominus exist again?
>>96165890>I teleport through the L to stand on circle>next turn I'll teleport through the other L to stand on circle>I better make sure I have enough stuff that after opponent's attack I can follow up by teleporting through an L and standing in the circle againGod I miss 3rd-5th 40k when it was a WARgame not a homosexual sumo wrestling simulator.
>>96165789>bitching about the gameWhich I do, and enjoy. Who moderates what discord isn't the game.
>>96165790Is there a phrase that would please your autism more? Wargaming feels less accurate.
>>96165998>Upset we are laughing at retards Sir this is a chan board. We will make fun of fucking any faggot that moderates a discord.
>>96165890this guy fucking loves 3.0
>>96166040his boyfriend prefers stormcast eternals though
>>96165016Dont say the word Nigger please
>>96165180Why his feet made outta choculate
>>96165239The only thing looking up is the shortass marinelets in your new collection
>>96166184>all nuscaleWhat did anon mean by this?
>>96165405And yet the notoriously in-short-supply GW just happened to have that many boxed lying around to fulfill the orders...
Dumb faggot!
GW thought it was going to be a hit. And LGS' don't just text "75 boxes" to an unresponsive number, faggot. They have relationships with their sales agents (faggot). What vibe do you think they git from their agents about this release? Eh, faggot?
>>96166067I think I like his boyfriend
>>96165502 401 Games doesnt even let you put preorders in your basket and check out, liar. You cannot buy from that site until release day
>>96165602I can't believe I still have to endure that slow-wit fuck after like 25 years (Portent, Warseer, DakkaDakka). I find it hilarious that people here are giving him shit today.
It looks like a bunch of legions got raped by 3.0 but SA and Knights actually look interesting.
>>96166163It's the mark of Chococalth
I hope 3.0 does alright. Seems to have interesting stuff. I think the backlash is because it's very different from 2.0.
8E was very different from 7Eโ6E, and there was backlash. Same with 10E, which is very different from 8โ9.
I wonder if 6E was very different from 4โ5th edition.
>>96166495Knights look neat but probably require those extra detachments to function, and status effects are gonna wreck them with little recourse (rules that let you fish for 6s aren't useful). At least you get moriax now.
>>96165878I'm still gonna fire them at my friend's blob of Despoilers.
That's my favorite thing to do when I play against him.
>>96166550It was an extension of late 5th edition plus introduced soup. It brought in more flyers which were broken, especially the chaos marines dragon thing which was very gay. 5th edition was good until GW moved Matt Ward over from raping WHFB to rape 40k.
>>96166556Absolutely need those detachments. The only scoring in the faction are Solar Auxilia infantry, or Armigers. Knights repair on 5's, Mechanicum on 4's.
>>96166613in CSM's defense, they were the first codex and literally no one else had any anti-air weapons so the hel-turkey was uncontested until other books dropped.
At first, I thought the IW trait to ignore the penalties from status effects was shit.
But after watching some batreps, it looks like it's actually decent.
>>96166667Apparently there's very little that is Status Effect (0), only the shotgun. Everything else seems to have at least a (1) modifier.
Also, I want to see what got quints
>>96166666
>next dlc is thousand sons and word bearers saturnines
>I play both legions
I'm not gonna buy the book buuuut
I'll probably split the terminators in the box between the two
Hey guys, I'm looking to get into 30k as a thousand sons player. Should I get the 3.0 box set or the 2.0?
>>961666135th Edition codices tend to be really cool and dripping with flavor. But also absolutely, wildly unbalanced in use for the actual wargame. I think the DE 5th edition release was the last time I was truly stoked for a GW release.
>>96166744Whichever one you like the look of the models more.
>>96166613You trannies are still seething Matt Ward huh?
>>961667442.0. You get just as many tacticals, cataphractii you can turn into sekhmet or keep base because they're still good, a useful dreadnought and a good tank.
>>96166744If you're a brand new player and you can get it, 2.0 is a better start to an army
It's a good solid core whereas saturnine is more about adding suppoyto an existing force
Plus you can upgrade the cataphractii to sekhmet
>have AoD box from before GW did their price hiking last year, still sealed
>finally get first army project out of the way, figure to get a 30k one done
>skeptical about Saturnine with the doomposting, don't mind the actual models too much
Do I go 'fuck it' and get the new box to start a largely plastic army, or invest into resin 3D printan for a bit more?
>>961667495th DE codex was amazing. The models were great, the pain token shit was fun, and it wasn't unbalanced shit. Phil Kelly did great. Right after that Matt Ward wrote the grey knights book and broke 5th edition.
>>96166744AoD for sure. The terminators can be converted into many units, while saturnine is basically one mediocre role and nothing else.
Do you think regular plasma will be allowed to be AP2 ever again?
>>96166753I've never told anyone this mate, but i actually raped Matt Ward roundabout 2012, down Tunbridge way. 'E was left drunk in a pub by his group of mates. I still had me leftover roofies capsules from a festival that summer, and it was light work to get one in 'im. After that i drug 'im to me bedsit in town. I spent a good long while fucking that boy. Pulled on his hair and spunked up him nice like. Spunked in him three times before i let him be and called down a taxi. Played four games in a tourney using one of his armybooks at the weekend lol.
>>96166800No. Next edition will introduce 40k's AP system.
>>96166782I'd only get the new box if you really want the Saturnine Dread/Termies and the NuMk2
Otherwise the AOD box is still probably the best boxed deal GW ever made.
>>96166800No. It's too common and easy to get.
>>96166800regular? no
but they took away the AP bonus to VDT/BDT rolls so it's no longer an issue vs vehicles in the way that it was, and maybe you'll get it someday on Hellblasters you 40fuck
They push Arquitors so bad. Did they not sell well?
>>96166782DESU i would wait, doomposters aside, there is no denying this box is NOT selling well, and if major online retailers are already dropping prices before the thing is fucking out, odds are you are gonna see a skaventide situation where there are a lot of extras floating around.
IMO its a pascals wager kinda situation of You do or dont buy, and it does or does not go on discount
You do buy, It does not go on discount further: You bought it at a 35% discount, but the individual satrunine terminators come out any way so you could have just bought those
You buy it, it does go down further: You spent more on it then you should have, and saturnine are out as well.
You dont buy it, it does not go further down in discount: You did not miss anything, you can still buy just the terminators down the road
You dont buy it, it then goes down further in discount: You can buy in the bottom of the dip, lots of models for cheap.
The Smartest option here is to just fucking wait.
>>96166920They did not because they were fucking DOGSHIT in 2.0. Asininely expensive platforms with short range for artillery, and shitty small blast templates. So no one gave a shit.
>>96166837I'm not big on Saturnine bundling that turret unless they canonize a kitbash for a Super-Sicaran or some shit like they did with the Scorpius + Tarantula in the softcover. But then again, AoD also has the two Praetors that aren't particularly nice models as-is. Don't suppose they'd make decent consuls at worst? Haven't checked to see if those guys have some weird-ass blister pack assembly that makes kitbashing a bit less straightforward.
>>96166921Fair enough.
>>96166800No, and IMO it should not be.
AP2 plasma was only fine in 40k when it was not as esily spamable in large numbers. In 30k it was very easy to get a 10 man plasma gun squad, ffs it was a troop choice, it ended up being the end all be all answer to fucking everything.
Plasma should be AP3 raw, and a breaching or rending 5 or 6.
>>96166935They have weird bare shoulders and pads to accommodate the capes
>>96166921The post you're replying to doesn't say anything about only wanting the Terminators.
The historical record says a 35% discount on Games Workshop products (products that usually see a yearly price increase) is an extremely good deal. If someone wants the contents of the box and they live in the UK they should buy the dip.
>>96166937Would plasma still be the answer to everything, now that Terminators and Vets have 2W and vehicles no longer explode? I wonder if there is any single wound 2+ save no invuln target that benefits from plasma *not* being AP2
>>96166949Im just saying terminators because thats what most people actually fucking want outta the box.
>Buy tthe dipI dont think this is the dip yet is the thing i think this is going to be a skaven tide situation, where in a couple of months its gonna go down further in price, or if it does not, the things that people want outta it are gonna be available. and its better financially in some situations to just buy the thing you want, and not pay more for a lot of things you dont need or want.
>>96166958Yes, considering your still forcing a 4++ at that point, and seeing as how plasma is rapid fire, each gun is statistically gonna wound a terminator.
In the 3.0 system possibly kill i think plasma is 2 damage?
But either way Raw AP2 plasma is fucking bonkers, i mean look how much mech is getting shit on for just Raw spamable AP3 plasma.
>>96166920> Did they not sell well?Who cares about the sales of their old resin kit. What matters is how popular the upcoming PLASTIC KIT will be!
>>96166977Thats also another point, it was an expensive fucking kit and it was bad.
>>96166977True. Resin kits are low qual products for impulsive brats and virtue signalers. Plastic will tell the true tale.
>mechanicum unit points costs almost all cut in half
>thallax lightning guns are fucking bolters instead of rending autocannons now
what the fuck is this? I don't want to buy another 1000 points of shit just to play
>>96167016>He gives a shit about the lightening guns >He bitches about thallaxAnon did you miss the part where every one of the thallax can take a special weapon? Meaning you can have a squad of thallax all with h raw ap3 plasma or mm, or those photon thrusters
>>96167034yeah man let me just drop $300 to replace and rearm all my thallax models with meltaguns
the point was that the game is making me spend a bunch of money on shit if I want to play the new edition
>>96167043Or you know just fucking say they have them lol or order China cast fuck anon it's not hard.
Your a mech player you have one of the most retarded busted armies in 3.0 you don't get a seat at the table to bitch.
>>96167048Oh boy I get to be a waacfag if I cough up another grand to james and spend months of time and energy to patch up an army I should realistically not have to buy more shit for, let's go! You were right I have nothing to complain about, all grievances with the new edition are nullified if your army has a big winrate!
I want to make NL saturnines using the CSM vehicle sprues
>>96166966Single damage. I feared Mechanicum's spammable plasma (then on Myrmidons), but that was because their rad grenades brought it to Instant Death levels, and their wielders couldn't be ID'd. Now that's gone.
I'm in full "Nah I'd win" mode. Though, if regular plasma became AP2, I'd argue Mechanicum PHASED plasma should be AP3 (maybe Breaching 6), with no overload profile. It's meant to be a lessened, more controllable plasma.
With T5 I'd totally tank it. And Saturnines would be wounded on a 5+.
>>96167034>every one of the thallax can take a special weapon?He shouldn't do that. The main problem with TSS is that every single casualty costs you a special weapon; no ablative bodies
Maybe you could have 1/3 of Thallaxi be ablative
So, how do you like your Astartes, anons: Posthuman Weapons or Humans After All? A killer whose every thought is the death of His foes, or a supersoldier who is still a person at the end of the day?
I think both can coexist in the setting, so it boils down to which one you like the most
>>96165502>Canada>>sites for stores in QB/ONNo one gives a fuck how it does here. I say that as a Canadian butโฆOH-I get it, easterner? เจเฉฐเจฆ เจเจพเจ เจ
เจคเฉ เจฎเจฐเฉ haji
On a semi related note, I actually saw the new models today. The Saturnine arenโt as big as I thought theyโd be, for some reason I figured they would be almost Boxnaught size. Wider than Indom but Iโm not sure taller. Too 40k though and the Dread is like half/half ionno, didnโt hate them but didnโt really feel like HH either. The Sat Preator had the better attempt. MkII Preator was cool though, really dig the helmet. Hereโs to hoping it bombs so they sell him solo
I wish there was some Prime upgrade available to vehicles. Especially SM tanks
is Magnus the only primarch sculpt that actually has any significant height difference?
Looking in videos and minicompare, seems like all other tall primarchs (Ferrus Manus, Vulkan and Mortarion) are basically the exact same height as Alpharius the shortest primarch.
>>96167232Varies legion to legion. I like the human side of Ultramarines, and how Guilliman had plans for them to all be governors and leaders after the crusade. A legion like Death Guard on the other hand are much better as post human monsters.
>>96167258until the errata, tanks need to not be allowed any prime upgrades. Any prime tank can be made into a Malefic daemon tank by chaos, and Malefic tanks are 100% immune to glancing hits by virtue of being immune to statuses (with no downside as wounds are not hull points)
An AV14 Malefic tank would be 100% immune to an infinite number of non-armourbane strength 8 missiles, and a predator immune to an infinite number of S7 autocannon shots.
>>96167331I mean it sucks if you are going to an event immediately, but the simple answer is to not play against somebody like that or bring like a cerberus or atrapos to blow it up with extreme prejudice.
>>96167250Indom did well and didn't they end up selling those guys seperate?
>>96164345This is why the forced optimism shills are so fucked up. The "doomers" have raised valid criticism of the new edition. By being wilfully ignorant of reality these businesses may well go bankrupt from the Saturnine box set alone. There's a type of person these days that thinks being critical of something is bad, and that if they steelman positivity they can force a positive outcome into reality
>>96167378>There's a type of person these days that thinks being critical of something is bad, and that if they steelman positivity they can force a positive outcome into realityTo be fair, doomers do the exact same thing. 9/10 times they lose whatever schizo shadowboxing rampage they're on and GW wins, whatever they say sucks and will bankrupt the company actually ends up being a great success.
I am glad GW is taking the L for once tho
>>96164185 (OP)Mk7 explicitly mentioned as being present at the very end of the siege
>>96167378You cried about missing units for a week and got utterly raped by GW, I'd be hiding after that
>>96167476If you don't think the Astartes Libers were overly culled of options and units then you're spiritually equivalent to a modern 40k player
>>96167476>utterly raped by GWI'm not a third party retailer
>>96167499don't forget that every character that remains is absolutely boring now that all special rules were replaced with "this dumb fucking duel gambit" instead of actual wargame stats.
>>96167568good
named characters are a blight upon this game
My entire country has sold two Saturnine boxes in a week.
>>96167592>Here's why that's a good thing!
it just occurred to me that a tech thrall can shrug off a shot from a laser destroyer bc FNPs have no downsides now
>>96167592What country are you from where you can measure that?
Here I am thinking 3.0 is fine and wishing this is the ruleset 40k had too instead of whatever the fuck they've been doing since 8th.
>>96167645There you are, born with severe mental retardation. Proof that abortion is not always an immoral choice and would have improved the world.
>>96167645>person who wishes for x to be y despite never engaging with x or y
>>96166550the backlash is because it invalidates a large portion of everyones models. no legacy won't magically bring back all consul wargear, no it won't suddenly make a chaplain anything else than just a lD buffer.
>>96167653I wouldn't hate current 40k so much if I hadn't engaged with it my dude.
>>96167402They look great anon, but I've noticed the legionnaire on the bottom right hasn't had his scope highlighted in the same way the others have.
This isn't a problem, I just wanted you to know that I noticed..
>>96167645I like the idea of detachments/prime list building even if the execution is flawed.
I like the increased ability to disable units rather than kill them.
I like that Flyers and Titans do not operate like typical vehicles.
I think that's about it for positivity.
>>96167675I think challenges and volley fires are cool. I like the new weapon rules. The rest I think it's pretty much the same so nothing to see. The only things I really dislike are Heavy and wound allocation. And drop pod assault being kill.
>>96167645https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-_YYfpfXPI
>>96167697buy an ad, not giving you clicks
>>96164345It's so unbelievably over
>>96167693The main thing I'm disliking is
>Lack of customisation for units>Terrain/cover rules>Vehicles being able to move their full distance without penalties>Wound allocation>Turn LimitEverything else I kind of like or am okay with to an extent, but the things I listed are the main things that have me feeling iffy about 3.0. I'm mostly just working on my pile of shame before I cast any kind of judgement or act like I know what I'm talking about though. I figure I'm likely misinterpreting or just thinking of worst case scenarios for a majority of these rules, and that in proper practice they maybe aren't too bad
>>96167645I like
>volley fire>changes to weapon balance>I'm a little on the fence about damage but lean towards liking it>changes to reactionBut basically every other change feels unnecassary or outright bad.
>>96167728>Terrain/cover rulesStill don't get the fuss over terrain. I think it works great. I'm unsure what heavy terrain is supposed to be used on but light and medium already cover all you need. It's simple and easy to use without removing difficult terrain like in 40k.
>>96167728>I figure I'm likely misinterpreting or just thinking of worst case scenarios for a majority of these rules, and that in proper practice they maybe aren't too badFrom what I've seen in batreps, the actual gameplay hasn't changed much outside of charges and challenges.
>>96167753outside of charge changes, moving heavy weapons, vehicle damage changes, challenges, 4 turn gamelength, melee attacks, charge bonuses, dual wielding, terrain visibility, unit options, sweeping advance, line of sight shooting casualty removal, removing all re-rolls and shred thus ruining chain weapons and all bayonets, pistols failing your charges by not shooting mid-combat, melta/plasma/las gimped, shooting secondary units other than charge target, end of turn objectives, line/vanguard objectives, deepstrike unable to melee, changes to transport charges, emotional space marines, removal of warlord traits, removal of any meaningful rites-of-war, removal of night battles, 1-deepstrike-per-turn limit, stratagem point system, removal of army buffs and replacement with gambits, illegal unit options. Yeah, you're such a genius.
>>96167749this guy wants to play on L shaped mdf
has anyone made the math about tank command vanquishers? the coaxial isn't an autocannon anymore just a heavy stubber (lol) and since auxilia has no unique prime advantage command tanks can only use the logistical one.
>>96167776You seem to have the reading comprehension of a slightly rotten potato.
>>96167731with nerfs to charge distance, melee+pistol footsloggers will never fire their pistols even once per game. Melee+pistol rhinorushers might shoot their pistol 1 single time per game their first fight, but it will deal less damage than the +1 attack for charging and +1 attack for dual wielding that were removed from the game (and only half the dual wielders got an attack baked in, and 1% got impact(attacks) baked in. Overall, pistols weren't made meaningful, it was an entirely useless change. The correct change would have been to just allow a pistol shot during the melee attacks phase but only attacks the unit you're meleeing. But GW is too stupid to do it.
>>96167786you seem to be severely mentally retarded. Hence why you said something so stupid and then were unable to defend it for even 2 or 3 seconds by making any arguments. Zoomer babies never learned how to do any critical thinking, it's embarrassing.
>>96167791why not make pistols not trigger reactions
>>96167812why wouldn't pistols trigger reactions
>>96167578>look inside non-named characters>Special Rules: None>Options: Replace Bolt Pistol
>>96167568All those named characters have basically always been some kind of duelist though?
cent
md5: 083d3fdfeaa6cb51c238ec0fd147a454
๐
>>96167833I see lots of options here.
>>96164314Needed some out door lighting :)
>>96167645Terrain rules are stupid
True LoS is gone.
DA lost their wings and gained boring (x) in the name of simplification, while TS could keep their 6 pages of arcanas.
3.0 looks alright otherwise but these three points are killing it for me.
Happy for the Salamanders. Their rules are finally great and Vulkan is broken from the looks of it.
>>96165780Don't worry - they've fucked up the primarch scale so you buy the NuPrimarchs when they release in plastic.
>>96167961>Terrain rules are stupidI don't really agree. Terrain rules are fine. You just need to apply the terrain traits properly. Making a crater medium terrain is stupid and leads to retarded gameplay, sure, but that's a you problem. Just give it light.
>True LoS is gone.In what sense? If you mean wound allocation I agree, it's dumb. If you mean terrain obscuring stuff it's no different than how it worked in 40k in 3rd/4th and that worked great. In fact, medium terrain is literally just the rules for woods in 3rd.
>>96167961>vulkanTo be honest all it really matters for is primarch duels which who cares.
>>96167232Every astartes comes off of the assembly line a post human monster, some can claw back a semblance of humanity but only in the rarest of circumstances.
beaks
md5: cc7b2ca016c8d36729587211643e458b
๐
>>96167232Whatever this is.
>>96167645I wish we had the 30k list building rules, they're much more fun than 10th eds "take whatever the fuck you want so long as you never take more than 3 of anything" approach.
gonna sell my stuff off before demand for the setting dies completely
>>96167870>Picks out the best counter-example he can>Still comes with one (1) special rule, which only impacts list building rather than the model when on the table
>>96168000>selling your models
>>96168002What would you want a centurion to do?
>>96168002>Picks out the best counter-example he canBecause the complaint is retarded. Are some options missing? For sure, especially bikes. Do some consuls have retarded restrictions? Absolutely. But saying that characters have lost all wargear options is just fucking dumb.
>Special ruleWhat do you want centurions to do? They are line officers and melee dudes that can take a command squad. They don't need to have a re-roll 1s aura. Their crunch is in their wargear.
With 3.0 going up in flames:
Are there any alternative rulesets except for older editions, the pano shit or the Outer Circle mess of a rulesystem?
Some useable fan made stuff that is halfway playable and balanced in the best case based on 40k 4th edition? I really can not see myself playing 3.0...
>>96168000I mean I guess but there were still people playing fantasy from when it died all the way until TOW came out.
>>96167982there are no rules for standing behind a defense line or scatter terrain, having to stand inside sucks, killing units you cant see sucks too esp in ZM
>>96167983eternal warrior 3 on top of salies rules and dmg 3 crit 5 hammer. That's even before taking his powerfull gambit into consideration.
Let's wait and play but I must agree he looks busted.
>>96168031there are groups working on 2.5 type rules but its gonna take time to port everything and playtest
>>96168035Those are just cover/difficult terrain so light works for them.
> killing units you cant see sucks too esp in ZMThat I agree with. Don't know why they thought it was a good idea.
>>96168029>But saying that characters have lost all wargear options is just fucking dumb.Good thing I didn't say that, then, idiot. I pointed out that it wasn't just named characters getting shafted, by pointing out that you could look in generic character entries and find instances of complete lack of special rules (true) in contrast to before and instances of near-nil equipment optionality (true) in contrast to before. Nigger.
anyone tried made a kneeling tactical from the not!-techmarine from the rapier set?
>>96168046I dont think so, you have to stand inside terrain to get a save, so standing behind cover does nothing this edition
>>96168045Where could someone find such groups? Or is it just a number of localized hobby groups without any interconnection?
>dynat has a rule where if he makes 3 hits with his sword, he gets to immediately make 1 attack with his hammer
>gambits have you select one melee weapon and change its effects etc
>you could either add d3 attacks to his sword, the damage 1 effect doesnt affect the hammer because hes not fighting with it
>or add +1S and D to the sword for some extra hurt, and get the hammer attack too
>>96168088no central effort afaik
my bet is that we'll get a few competing fan rules and the better written one will win out
>>96168031Make your own with your locals.
>>96168095Propably the best advice.
Unfortunatly I'm a lazy fuck and like to leech off other people's work...
also it is most of the time easier to convince a local on trying out something found on the internet, that something I have written myself...
>>96168031Like any post apocalypse, it's down to whatever you can scrabble together
>>96168044He may be, but it seems like basically all the primarchs will smash whatever non primarch thing they touch.
>>96164678>BS3 WarhoudEww
>>96168031yeah working on a ruleset with my LGS can put it on here next week hopefully. It's very close to 4th edition with some heresy additions, tweaks to charts and a lot more stat interactions as well as Str based AP.
>>96166744Whichever you like the models from. TS are looking like they can probably make any of the units work
2.0 box looks more versatile, maybe that and a box of special weapons would suit TS better but the units in the 3.0 one also work for them.
Everyone is saying the 2.0 is much better to start but I've barely ever seen anyone run a spartan outside 3-4k point games. It's usually too many points sunk into a deathstar that is not going to do anything productive most of the time unless your opponent also has one and they clash in the middle of the board...
>>96168168people use spartans a ton and they are only going to see more use in 3.0, the only reason you might not have seen them is because melee has bee so shit no one would want to invest points into it over more shooting.
>>96168031>I don't like the official current or past editions or anything mildly mainstream anyone else has madeHave you considered just playing somethin else?
>>96168177<Walks away from your 1k point deathstar
Don't come complaining later about how bad vanguard is
>darksphere boxset now down to 126.70 overnight
lmao 3.0 making its way towards 50% off hahaha
>>96168196Yup. That's not even taking to account the prices they'll reach on ebay. If I've gotten spartans new for ยฃ28, I wonder what %s we'll see here..
>>96168091Not quite. Gambits affect all the attacks you make, not a specific weapon. So the +1D (or the flat 1d from the flurry) would apply to both parts
>>96168242kind of funny that I've presold half the box contents on ebay for more than the entire box is now worth
>>96167568>now that all special rules were replaced with "this dumb fucking duel gambit" instead of actual wargame stats.Wow, the "when in a challenge do X" rule was replaced by "when in a challenge have a gambit to do X" rule? How awful!
>>96168002>>Still comes with one (1) special ruleThats more than centurions had previously.
>>96168129>all the primarchs will smash whatever non primarch thing they touch.That's almost a given. It doesn't change the fact that Vulkan's ruleset have a lot more going for it.
Best Gambit, EW (3), Dmg3 crit(5), 7 wounds, cannot be wounded on less than 3s, LD, cool, debuff to Ld, cool, will and intel immunity during the first game turn basically turning Salies into Strictly better Dark Angels during the first game turn, prime advantage on the troops at the cost of 5/10 pts upgrade (which all seem very worthwhile) per squad without a limitations on the type of squad you must bring.
Vulkan has a lot going for him. And the more I think about it, the more it seems like too much.
How does Zardu's soul binding work on single model units, does everyone just decide to be friends and not attack each other?
It's good to see some influencer paints give the new figures a crack, but I still find them awkward.
>all of my LGS respond back "We haven't heard about this" regarding the HH3 drama
>send them extensive proof, they respond back that they're looking into it
>two days later, all Saturnine boxes are off 30%
Pottery.
>>96168328I'm out of the loop, what's the drama?
>>96168324>It's good to see some influencer give the new figures a crackI know you browse the general, there's no way you haven't uploaded this photo yourself, Dee. Not with a filename like that.
>>96168329The drama generally being the 3.0 leaks come out and are not what we wanted, and we lost options. You've got shill GW influencers saying and I quote "just snap those weapons off". Add onto that the fact HH players don't take whatever slop gets served to them (there's been a decent 1.0 base long after 2.0), PLUS the fact saturnine armor designs are like marmite = stores have hundreds of unsold saturnine boxes not moving, and will be eating up space that could be used to store product that will actually sell.
>>96168329>>96164345>>96167378Tl;dr: There is such little demand for the Saturnine box set that multiple retailers are sat on a bomb
>>96168329They nixed a bunch of units and changed a lot of the rules for no apparent reason except to shrimplify things, most egregious being that normal loadouts were now no longer supported in the rules, like power fists for Terminators. Frankly bizarre.
Unironically Leddit of all places has a comprehensive listing of everything:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer30k/comments/1lypcdb/mod_post_whats_changed_why_is_everyone_mad/
>>96168329They made a starter box where half the contents are something no one asked for and the other half are sold separately, so it doesn't seem to be selling very well
Anons think for some reason this has anything to do with the rules they don't like in 3.0
>>96168340>>96168343Ah yep, a lot of my optimism for the new edition flew out the window when I saw how much they gutted army building.
Wasn't sure if missed something like GW interns giving out handjobs for good reviews type drama.
I'm still pissed that the loss of talons and squadrons has royally fucked my thematic armies. Where I used to be able to run just 2 slots to fit everything and have 1 HS and all my elite slots left over without a ROW, NOW I gotta take 3 centurions and I literally cannot fit everything even with the logistical benefit.
>>96168354That happened too but with trannies
>>961683293.0 rules are kinda shit, GW took a hatchet to customizability, the new designs are scub and the communication has been less than ideal, to put things mildly.
>>96168343But reddit also has this bizarre situation that ANY word against the new edition is treated like you just farted into their sandwich. They're going full schizo.
>>96168356Same bullshit that happened to me with the loss of deff dread squadrons. Suddenly got capped to 3 fml.
>>96168245>adds d3 to its attacks characteristic>but any hits inflicted by these attacks are D1guess what, his hammer attack isnt part of his attacks characteristic, only his sword
>Everyone hates the 3.0 rules guys!
>That's why the box isn't selling!
>>96168373LGSes are struggling to shift copies
>>96168373jarvis, show me the entire page for horus heresy preorders on the GW website
>>96168356I realize I probably called this down on my own head, but my FotA list would need so many damn centurions.
Would have been an ideal situation to give the Mortifactor a purpose, too, by making him able to bring three dreads as a built-in benefit. But, nooo, can't have that.
>>96168389The Mortificator might actually do that though, unironically wait for the PDF on that one
>>96168389No models no rules, don't look at camba Diaz and master of descent
I just don't want 40 mk2 marines or the turret or the dreadnought. I like the new rules but I have little reason to buy the boxset when I can just grab the rules and a single box of saturnine termies.
>>96168389>called this down on myselfdon't talk like that, anon. skewed lists are a feature, not a bug. we don't have xenos armies. all the variation comes from leaning into legion differences.
Fist players are still faggots though
>>96167982I don't think anyone is saying to give craters medium. But if your table is filled with mostly ruins and buildings (I assume you are giving medium) you end up with units in the same ruin/building unable to see each other which is retarded.
And then there is heavy cover where no one can see each other while in it. What terrain piece would this even represent? If you were dumb enough to use a piece of heavy cover a barrage unit could be put in it and be invulnerable vs everything that is not barrage.
>>96164491Stanley Tucci Lorgar is my favorite Lorgar
>>96168399>spoilerWe all know Cameron Diaz is already waiting in the wings, it's only a matter of time.
Not that he'll be any less boring and pointless then.
>>96168399cumboat diass is 100% getting a model at some point.
>>96168399It's DIFFERENT!
That rule doesn't apply to DLC!
Only to core liber units, that aren't characters for specific factions they like particularly more than others
>>96165448This reminds me, did the weapon list for SA ever get posted. The weapons are statted, but not their point costs or who get's what in the PDF.
>>96165448>Flare shieldHow come SA get to keep those?
And what do they do?
Cumbutt DiAss is the baddest mofo in the books, too bad the rules are quite meh.
Master of Descent model would be cool to have.
>>96168551Ignore armorbane.
>>96168562That's something I guess
>>96168399>MoDDLC model, not beholden to liber restrictions
It is known
Ughhhhhh I forgot that with the loss of slots I guarantee you I'm gonna be even more turbo fucked when Arlatax inevitably compete with the Thanatars for war-machine slots.
So is a librarian with divination and biomancy the default choice for boosting your melee rape train?
>>96168554I thought he was kind of a dumbass in MCW, but in Saturnine he was pretty okay.
Ultimately he is stymied by being a boring guy in a legion littered with interesting named characters that all also have more unique rules than he does.
>>96168621Yes, because little Timmy can't ask for a techmarine on bike at a store counter and be told to buy two kits
But he can ask to buy a master of descent and be told he needs to buy 5 kits and 3 dlc books
>>96168657Not the argument being presented
>want to do a small ZM force of White Scars
>want to use ebon keshig and sagyar mazan cause it makes sense to throw them into those shitty types of fights
>donโt want to paint my marines black since I want to paint white
Iโm willing to concede on the ebon keshig maybe but am I gay if I choose to paint my breachers as just normal scars?
>>96168373rules aside the box itself was never going to be popular between the least loved armour mark, terminator designs no one wanted, a fucking turret for SPACE MARINES and a hideous oversized dreadnought.
>>96165658Wayland is at least 10% of GW minis owned in France and germany.
Even with the increased cost of transport.
That's very bad for GW.
>>96165650>Been saying the AoD discord was full of fags for years. >All my Friends ignored me.>Now they all agree with me.
>>96168261>turning Salies into Strictly better Dark AngelsThat's a low bar to reach.
>>96168373>Dark Sphere puts the whole Horus Heresy range on a 30% discount Yeah it's all good bro don't think about it too much
>>96168717Paint them all white, give them a black stripe or hand-print on their helmet and call it good. The heresy put everyone on their back foot and your dudes just didn't have time to repaint their armor yet. Bam, done.
>>96168640No, biomancy telekinesis, Divination is for if you want to make your Librarian a challenge rapist
>>96168261Vulkan is definitely overtuned. It's just a few too many of the good things you would expect on a primarch.
>>96168756Wow a 5% bigger discount than usual
That's basically clearance due to bankruptcy
Pack it up boys, HH is over
>>96168765They're usually 20% iirc
>>96168329>I'm out of the loopHow?
>>96168771Wow a 10% bigger discount than usual
That's basically clearance due to bankruptcy
Pack it up boys, HH is over
>>96168642Yeah, thats a fair assessment. The rules are actively bad, hardly anything special about him other than the gambit. I mean even a cookie cutter Centurion has 4 attacks (he has 3, costs 40 points more than the centurion). They could have done his Saturnine performance much greater justice, adding a nice shield to the wargear or something.
>>96166550The back lash is because the rules fucking suck and the wargear options were cut + plus legion flavor is equivalent to watered down soda that was left in the car in a hot summer
>>96168031There's a 4th edition supplement from BOLS for Heresy, but it was written at the time so it uses 4th's general design philosophy and 30K fluff(this may be good or bad depending on your taste). Also doesn't have non-Marine lists just auxiliary units so you'll have to use the 3.5 Guard dex with doctrines and houserules to mash together something for SAux and Militia, and there's no Mech at all. Well there's Tim Huckleberry's 4th edition Explorator list, but it has a lot less Whacky DAoT Stuff than 30k Mechanicum does in the modern rules.
Both are here if you want: gofile DOT io/d/J1jyXv
>>96168733What gave it away? Half the admin team trooning out?
>>96168762Wouldn't being a challenge rapist be better than the kine shield? It helps combat res and you don't need the fnp if you're in a Spartan
You are running them in a Spartan, right anon?
>>96168787GW sells to retailers at 45% off and they resell at 15-25% off. That means the store holds on to 20-30% of the sale.
By selling at 35% off, the store only holds 10%. It's reducing their profit to about 1/3 of what it should be.
It's absolutely catastrophic and the kind of shit you see at Black Friday clearance sales months after the hype has died. We are still in pre-orders, this is the most hype the game is ever going to see.
>>96168800No. Several Anons here have the books but
>>96167250Le typical eternal victim westerner projecting his pajeet problem to frenchies that he cant understand but act like he knows how their society is run and somalian from ontario , many such cases
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/adg4tubx/warcom-team-paints-saturnine-the-traitor-legions/
>>96168821Why in God's name would I be running that overpriced piece of shit, I can get another command squad for that price
>>96168787Economic recessions have been triggered in single digit % changes. Margins are also fuckin tight in a lot of places.
On the bright side: given the catastrophic launch sales, GW might realize their HH customers are more long term & less milkable than the faster churning 40k audience that they like to pump n dump.
So perhaps they will reconsider any plans for 3y cycle, given it didnt quite pan out like they hoped. I know I'm being optimistic here. But this has to register somehow at the top level.
>>961667442.0 box and play with 1.0 rules. Work with your playgroup to tweak OP TS rules. Enjoy.
I think the psychic disciplines in 3.0 are fun
>>96168859Regardless of this, I think they might be switching to loner cycles simply because they now have more than 3 big games so they can't fit a release each summer in 3 year cycles anymore. They'll need 4/5.
>>96168859Hopefully they'll take their current rules team behind the woodshed and put both barrels through their collective skull. Those shitheads have ruined so god-damn much by this point.
>>96168787Remind me, how many Warcom hype articles have their been for 3.0?
>>96168877I would blame executives before rank and file. Higher-ups are so detached from the product or service that they insist on completely retarded decisions. They didn't build the business, and they don't understand it. If you wanted to execute anyone, start with the MBAs.
>>96168877Remember when we thought 2020 BloodBowls ruleset was so bad because of Covid? How naive we were.
We all know they're just going to double down on this shit. Hell, at this fucking point they need to just give up and make their money selling licenses to video game companies.
>>96168850i like the DG one
>>96165718Is this homosexual paid for these Jannie duties?
>>96168850lol what the fuck is this?
>>96165998Shut the fuck up faggot.
We will insult the tranny mods, the money grubbing anti consumer company, the faggot influencers, and whatever the fuck else we want too in regards to this dumpster fire of an edition launch.
Don't like it? Fuck off to Code HRT's tranny discord
>>96168923They're targeting the "literal child" audience
>>96167645Titan rules are cool and a closer look at weapons is nice. They almost hit the mark with vehicle rules and fell short for obvious reasons. Titan rules are cool. Thatโs like 5% good and 95% shit. Back to tried and true 1.0 with adjustments.
>>96168877Given this is the SGS, I wonder how much (if any) of the Titanicus rules team was involved. Easily GW's best ruleset.
>>96168850>fucking GW studio memeber couldn't be arsed to source chainaxesthe apathy never fails to amaze me
book
md5: f296b19854b932d98024ecefd4af9e01
๐
>>96168854Spartans are basically indestructible in 3.0
>>96168923I know it's to encourage painters of all skills but... Did a good painter just phone it in, or did they make some poor office worker paint and potentially make them feel bad? I feel like the intention is good but
>>96168923The first paint job of someone who has never painted a model before and guessed how to do it.
>>96168894>>96168856>>96168826The starter box didn't sell well
Can you get over it and stop shitting up every thread now?
>>96168923Something painted by a guy in the GW office.
>>96168956Theyre all office worker paintjobs, hence the very different skill levels.
>>96168945>Blood *on* the power fieldThey didn't get paid to do this, did they?
>>96168945>GW studio memeberThese are the WarCom people, not 'Eavy Metal. They just curate the website, they're not studio painters.
>>96168961>literal damage control Lol. Lmao
>>96168946That doesn't count!
If everything is not sold out before the preorder finishes then GW will pull the plug on HH and they will stop making any kits for it!
If the starter box doesn't sell out there's not fucking point to the setting anymore!!!!
>>96168946I'd be okay with these if they were digital and like 5โฌ.
>>96168956Good painters usually paint models, not armies. The Infernal Brush guy was saying that at Eavy Metal you usually paint one model per day (maybe two basic models) for box art.
>>96168031Iโm stealing this for my next video
>>96168923Got to appeal to the talentless paintlets of the 40k crowd.
>>96168979I'd be okay if they realise we live in the digital age and it's practically a worthless NFT at this point, not to mention the inevitable rule fixes and balances that immediately invalidate physical copies.
>>96168261Personally I am shocked the poster boys for the edition are strong. Who could have seen such a thing coming?
>>96168974It's not damage control
I simply get enough of you retards on /wfg/ already, I don't want you here as well
>>96168946Why did THIS of all things sell out?
>>96168897I wouldn't mind the entire GW exec suit getting fed through a woodchipper, certainly, but the rules guys have proven to be perfectly capable of making pure garbage all on their own. 40k and AoS have each had several editions that are substantially and increasingly worse than what came before, BB is almost unplayable, Underworlds had all its good elements systematically stripped out, Ligma is strictly inferior to Titanicus...
Only Necromunda has been spared, mostly on account of starting from broken and requiring a binder worth of house-rules just to get to a halfway playable state.
>>96169009Because it's not a bunch of models no one asked for?
>>96168859Sorry anon but heresy is now the "second net" for 40k players
You see the strategy for a long time has been to get in as many new 40k players because new players spend a fuck ton of money over a short amount of time
But of course you knew this
You might think that Heresy is a way to retain burnt out players but don't be fooled, that's not the way GW does things
Heresy is now a way to squeeze 40k players a second time when they give up on the game because would you look at that, none of their old armies can be used in Heresy
So they have to go through the "new player phase" again
After they've spent that beginner money, they can be discarded
"Veteran players" aren't a source of income, we're human billboards. Our only purpyas far as GW is concerned is to show prospective buyers that if they spend all their cash on a heresy army, there will be a community waiting on the other side
>>96169009Becuase the box sucks. People want rules to play with armies they have. GW probably made a fuckton of the box too and pushed it on stores so they need to offload fast.
>>96168826There are also credit card fees. In the US it's 2% of the sale.
>>96168876The only way they stretch out the edition cycling is if they manage to fit Old World into it, making it a 4 year cycle
The 3 year cycle is because they have 3 games to rotate, otherwise it would be a 2 year cycle
Shareholders don't care if a new edition is not needed, all they see in a year without an edition is that profits are down
>>96168986And who are you?
>>96168923Damn you'd think they'd take new employees and tell them "alright buddy, as a games workshop employee you need to at least know how to use nuln oil"
>>96169000I don't mind physical books, I prefer them, but I'm not spending 50โฌ in a book with such little content and much less when they want me to buy 4 a year. I like the concept of the journals but they need to be ultra cheap and digital is the most cost effective way for GW.
>>96169034They said they were increasing the scope of TOW after the inicial success so I am counting on that.
>>96169010box lock and 3-year cycles are not things the rules guys do of their own volition. they might fuck up everything else, but the main complaints are not with them.
>>96169049Honestly it's a 50/50 on if they're even games workshop employees or just a contracted company
>>96168923It's not like the early 1.0 models had stellar paintjobs but that just looks unfinished.
>>96169062The 3.0 rules generally being an incoherent mess *is* on them though, corporate mandate or not.
>>96169059Thank your local Old World player for taking a bullet for you when the time comes
Of course after the cycle has run a few times, it'll be that every new edition that is not 40k will look weak compared to "40k years" and there will just be a new 40k edition every year while other games are given less and less attention
>>96168850The backs of all the saturnine stuff look so fucking horrible and generic
No wonder they kept them hidden in the beginning
>>96167961Iโm a big Salamanders fan and I would never have wished for us to be buffed at the cost of a whole edition. Fuck 3.0. Iโd rather be the underdog
>>96169077It looks like a face.
>>96169072Honestly I don't doubt the suits did some heavy meddling in the rules
If only through a severe time crunch
I don't think it's possible for anyone to properly write and playtest a game like heresy in the time they had
>>96168923>literal "thin your paints" modelsHow did GW allow this?
>"I was surprised by how flexible the posing of the model can be"
>Made it T pose
Lol, lmao even
>>96169049>>96169066You havent sen Gavs nuslayers? The art of "wash yo shit" is sadly one not everyone knows
>>96169070Theres a difference between whats clearly a quick workmanlike paint job (and even then with some flourishes) and that very amateurish stuff. Good thing too, because one was a company promotional paint job and the other is "we asked steve from the server room how his EC look"
>>96167961>DA lost their wings and gained boring (x)Good, wings are retarded and every faggot complaining about how they should get them back should go suck on a dildo lubricated in anthrax
>>96168923https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OfzoGfka5k
Not the first time this happened.
>>96169101I have not seen the slayers
Would you be so kind as to post a picture?
>>96169009Probably did not print as many of them. Same reason the knight liber sold out, not a lot of people run them.
>>96168923The got Mike from accounting, who has never held a brush or have ay interest in painting miniature in his life, to paint these ones, didn't they?
>>96169008what a coincidence the same team is responsible for both games
>>96168031Okay hot take here and Iโm not a shill, just basing this on logic. Quit shitting on a rule set you havenโt seen aka Outer Circle 1.5. Is there a decent chance it will be ass? Yea. There is also a decent chance it will be decent. Quit jumping the shark.
Dunno I don't think they are perfect and there's a couple of things I dislike but I quite like the core rules they do a lot of things I really enjoy. That said I have zero reason to buy the saturnine box.
>>96168733>Been saying the AoD discord was full of fags for years. >All my Friends ignored me.>Now they are all gay.
>>96169119And still they do everything better than the main studio.
>>96169101Steve responded with "what's an EC?" At that point GW knew they had their man.
>>96169133or a whole lot worse than GW 15 years ago
>>96169121>3+FNP on his pet legionYeah this is gonna be even more unbalanced than panoptica
>>96169122Good thing us old players are not the target demographic anymore :^)
>>96169100>>96169070These paint jobs are awesome. By contrast 40k was becoming increasingly cartoonish and colorful in both visuals and story. The FW schemes really helped set the tone for the setting.
Still no liber questoris pdf?
I wonder how long until GW announces the new Charonite Ogryns, now that the resin model is gone. It cant be that long, they are the cover of the liber book
>>96169077The backs are the best part what are you on about, it's what sets them apart as genuinely different
Also if not for the leak the back would've literally been one of the first pieces we saw on horus hearsay
>>96169147It wasn't a diss on the paintjobs, thehy work great, but it's also true they are not masterworks that require much skill to achieve.
Beyond the teasers we're already seen (and the fucking obvious e.g. plastic glaive/falchion after fellblade), what DO yall want here unitwise? Personally, Arlatax. We have em in LImp, neat looking thing, but I am dreading them contesting thanatars for war-machine slots (which is fucking dumb).
>>96169173...why would they be in warmachine and not in fast attack like the vultrarax or in elites like the domitar
>>96169173I would have said deathclaws and a kharibdys but both suck now so I'll settle for a fire raptor, especially if flyers are uspposedly 'fixed' now.
>>96169173Domitars are elites afaik, so arlatax should be too.
It's wild how difficult it is to build a list for mechanicum, with detachments being limited by both battlefield role and techno arcana. Far, far too much of our army is elites, when apex detachments and logistical benefit are the only way of getting elite slots.
>>96169186Kharibdys sucks but the dreadclaw is now the cheapest way to get around the deep strike restrictions AND charge out of DS
>>96169111Cant find them currently, but they were not very good. Really amateurish lava paintjob with dark skin and magma hair. Have an elf from a similar series of similar quality. Not everything they put on warcom is very well painted, I dare say thats even part of the charm, helps it feel authentic. Some of the people there are really good, others are not so much.
>>96169135Nah, I think he really was painting some EC on his lunch break or whatever.
>>96168850I really hate melee saturnines
they just don't look like they would be able to hit anything, especially with fists
it's like they would have to twist entire body and lunge just for a chance to even touch anything in front of them
>>96167961DA can get 10 squads with master sgts, or interdiction cadres, or true believers, or logistical benefits via detachment abuse
>>96169186The claws are great.
>Not deepstrike>can Assault on arrival>Can arrive t1>Intercept is at board edge behind obscuring terrain>Move full distance+disembark units full move distance>Can return to pick up a unit and automatically clear all status effects and drop back off laterIf they had assault vehicle they'd be borderline OP
>>96169215They're what drop pods should have been
What does the rapid tracking rule do?
Are deredeo autocannons decent now?
>>96169229>What does the rapid tracking rule do?Counts as defensive for intercept reaction.
Means a sicaran or araknae intercept with the big autocannons, which gives them pretty decent odds of just removing a flier in one go
I have 20 tacs. Do I make another squad of 10 for 30?
Another Support? I have Volk/Flame/Rotor
Another Assault? I have 10
>>96168919Can these guys please fill in the gaps with green stuff/milliput? wtf Iโm sick of seeing this shit
>>96169222Yep. Rolling for each pod would have been fine. Especially if a MoS didn't affect them like flyers. Make them scatter 2d6 and correct to land legally. No assault. Would have been totally fine.
>>96169248Does that even matter ron a dread? Do they care about defensive?
>>96169229The dorito looks stupidly overpriced for it's weapon profiles desu
The autocannon is basically 2 normal autocannons with breaching 5+ instead of 6+
That a couple of heavy bolters and the missile launcher that lost ap3 and is a small blast instead of 3 shots does not seem worth 190p
>>96169173Plastic mk4 and mk5. I only use armour that has chest cables so I don't need mk2 and mk3.
>>96169145Iโve kept up to date with the rules previewed so far. And no where was it hard documented that they are going to have FNP 3+. It was just discussed. Quit parroting the same shit other people have said and actually do your research. However if it does stick then Iโll eat crow. So stfu and quit being histrionic.
>>96169271That's rough, I just finished magnetizing mine with autocannons and plasma :( which I'm assuming is also now garbage
>>96169133I think HH 3.0 is on par with AoS 4, maybe a bit worse.
>>96169310The plasma is now D2 big blast, breaches 4+ still. Its pretty scary weapon. Autocannon is also S8 D2 with 6 shots skyfire. Its pretty decent, but wont get full value unless you face flyers (where its really good, better than a sicarans).
The big hits are that its now BS4 and that the missiles are a lot weaker.
>>96169271The autocannon is 6 shots S8 breaching 5+, thats a bit better than two autocannons stapled together.
>>96169290>"He might have said it's in the rules but we haven't SEEN it so it's not confirmed"Are you seriously this retarded or are you just pretending?
>>96169106Please show us on your puppy doll where the terranic greatsword did touch you.
>>96169271>The autocannon is basically 2 normal autocannons with breaching 5+ instead of 6+3 autocannon with +1S and breaching 5+ instead of 6+ and Skyfire plus whatever Rapid Tracking does... And you can still take Boreas missiles instead of the blast template.
>>96169310It kept the breaching 4+ and 5" blast. It's probably the better option for shooting at infantry
>>96169318>thats a bit better than two autocannons stapled together.Autocannons are 3 Shot when standing still. The ap is better, but not 190p better imo
>>96169250How many models do you have unbuilt in total?
If you are stretching out your dollar, build a cool unit that interests you (TSS, HSS, Veterans etc).
If you have plenty more, I would personally recommend 40 tactical marines in total. Painting up 4 sgt's and then 2 extra generic dudes gives you some flexibility also. You can run them as 4 ten man squads, as 2 twenty man squads, 2 ten man and 1 twenty man squad etc.
40 tactical marines just so happens to be how much a typical demi-company has also, if you are feeling autistic and want to adhere to how an astartes force might be formatted.
>>96169261Nah. Like, let deepstrikes roll one by one yeah, but if you do get multiple successes, let them both arrive in the same turn.
Not like now when there's the restriction of a single deepstrikes per turn. And they can't charge. Boo that.
Let multiples arrive, make them scatter, and let them charge. At least a disordered charge if they don't disembark from an Assault vehicle. Drop pods would be special in that they get to roll reserves since turn 1 and correct scatter somewhat.
Won't have that.
>>96169173I'd like to see something actually new in mechanicum. Most of the automata don't really have options and I'd like something to have some loadout variation. They could even do that with an existing unit, vulturax having alternate weapons would be fun.
>>96169318>skyfireWho's wording still confuses me. Flyers aren't on the table for them to shoot other than interceptor and return fire reactions. But it's worded like flyers are on the board and you snap fire at them by default. Did they just copy paste and not circle back to word it better,m
>>96169098Honestly this is fucking abysmal
>>96169334>Autocannons are 3 Shot when standing stillAnd S7, and lack skyfire, and breach on 6+ rather than 5+. All of those are fairly significant differences imo.
S8 vs S7 means you pen flyers in 4s rather than 5s. Breaching 5+ essentially doubles your damage output into 2+ armor. Being able to move and shoot with no penalties is also quite nice.
Also, autocannons are now priced like lascannons. Two autocannon HSS are 70pts or something, for t4 3+ save marines with 1w. 120pts for a twin heavy bolter (worth say 1.5 heavy bolter HSS, so say 30pts), the missile launcher (either the blasts or the big anti air missiles, which are quite scary now) and the damage upgrades + durability upgrades seems pretty reasonable.
>>96169209Didn't say they were shit : I said they were boring. The ability to abuse the force org and prime advantage doesn't make up for the tasteless trait they have.
Like it or not but I'll say it: getting rid of wing traits was a mistake.
>>96169365Nah, it's looks fine
>>96169384The ability to manipulate force org/prime traits is a much better way of representing "the legion has a bunch of special formations" than the random crap they had before.
Having a central trait shared by the entire legion is also better.
>>96169415Others might hate you anon, but I do agree with you.
>>96169338Appreciate it
Tacs it is
>>96169415>>96169423As do I. The only way the "Bing Bing wahoo 6 legion traits" could have been acceptable is if you were locked in to one wing for 75% of your army determined by your warlord and then you have 25% of reinforcements from other wings
>>96169404Duel wielding polearms in a neutral stance is a terrible aesthetic
>>96169478Could have had it be a ROW benefit.
>>96169503No fuck you and your 6 "better than actual ROW" ROW too. You should've gotten 2. Fuck I hate DAfags
Dual Volkite Contemptor - shit or not this ed?
>>96169554The two volkite culverins are worth more to you than the dreadnaught itself is. Just take a HSS.
>>96169554Pretty shit
12 volkite shots are not worth 180p
For that price you could take many more volkites on infantry
>>96169554For 75p less a preadator gets 16 volkite shots instead of 12 and half of them are D2...
But desu this is with most of the contemptors weapons I think. They hit them hard with the nerf bat
>>96169554Look alright. Bit more pricey than volkite infantry, but a lot more durable. Won't die to tactical squads firing 60 bolter shots at it from 24" away, and retains full firepower until the last wound, unlike infantry who lose shooting with each wound lost.
>>96169077>picked every single rivet out in goldimpressive dedication/tism
>>96169621Predators don't come with an invulnerable save or armour save though. And can get shut down by a lucky glancing hit. I can see why a dreadnought would be more points.
>>96169645Defensively they are fine but you are losing a lot out of a dread if they don't have a melee weapon imo
Even if you want a volkite dread the dorito would be a better option since it has pinning 2 and S7 on his
>>96169570He's choking up on the grip of both, losing all leverage (the whole point of such a long weapon). This is meant to be an elite warrior demi-demi-god and he can barely wield his weapons? Shatters any attempt of verisimilitude
Have the Titan sheets/weapons been leaked yet? Want to see if i should change out an arm weapon this edition!
>>96169554Contemptors are now meant to ram into land raiders, not shoot
>>96169694Do you still hit vehicles on 2s in melee?
>>96169679That is the most convenient place to hold a pole weapon with one hand when you're standing at rest and not actively trying to whack a motherfucker into the afterlife. Point of balance and all that.
>>96169694>Can take flamer, havoc launcher and grav gun on top of the fistsThey are meant to throw ALL the status effects on you at once and see if something sticks. Then charge you
>>96169715So he's just carrying them around? Drops one to fight and then picks both up again to walk? It's retarded
How do you do fellow chuds, I was told this place is safer for me.
>>96169733>castellansOopsie
>>96169319It was in the live video and the other guys shit on it almost as fast. It was a brainstorming session and nothing was set in stone. How fucking sense are you? You have a right to think however you want but donโt deconstruct anything in your favor to back up your point when you canโt pay attention. Big life lesson for you bud
>>96169724A skilled warrior can totally adjust his grip in but a moment to get maximum leverage. You just tip the weapon to one side and let the haft slide through your hand.
You're just angrily nitpicking at problems because you want to see problems. Calm down, maybe step away from the computer for a minute.
>>96169733Yeah fuck it why not. At least they're painted
>>96169745I said I think it looks bad, you asked why
>>96169742Calm down Macca
It doesn't matter because your ruleset is never coming out anyway
>>96164185 (OP)What do you guys think about this convertion?
>>96169826>Didn't fix the huge mould slip on the back the axeYikes.
>>96169793I am not him. However I will agree he is taking his time more than I would like with his version of the rules.
I hate how people defend 3.0. Itโs like you can feel the disappointment in their voice and yet still splurt out there reasons for moving on to it. It seems so contrived. Personally I think GW should just stick to models and never touch rules again. They would be fine.
>>96169848If you're not Macca why are you the lone retard running free ads for his garbo skew rules in every thread?
Are you one of his "podcast" buttbuddies?
Whether it's 2.0 or 3.0, after taking a shitload of assault squads for my WE, what's the best way to fill out anti-tank and other required roles without the use of tanks? Trying a thematic Isstvan III list.
>>96169864>WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH WHY ARE PEOPLE HAVING A DIFFERENT OPINION THAN ME WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHGrow up.
>>96169914Gross over exaggeration of his comment
>>96169901Rapiers or meltagunner squads?
>>96169918Welcome to the internet. Enjoy your stay.
>>96169826I'm doing the same conversion alhough not with the 40gay helmet and plasma pistol.
>>96169901I think anti-tank is the best role for fist-temptors now
>>96169920Both fair shouts. Thoughts on contemptors with conversion/lascannons or double fists? Also wondering about leviathans.
In an ideal world everyone who disagrees with me about anything would be instantly struck by lightning, even if they are indoors.
>>96169951Think they feasibly reach melee in 4 turns without dying in 3.0?
>>96169952I think leviathan AT is kinda low, at least in 3.0. But yea, dreads are good for anti tank weapons. Deredeo with the S10 lascannons is downright scary.
Land speeders are also great, although I guess whether they count as vehicles is somewhat questionable.
>>96169965They're still reasonably fast and can run, but it'll depend on terrain and your ability to pick off infantry that would pick them off on the way
>>96169121Shut up Macca buy an ad
You're worst than the discord trannies because at least the trannies eventually kill themselves
>>96169338What book is that from? Looks breeeetty cool
I repainted laserbeak and the Pale King's carapace too. I should have done this a long time ago.
Consider the following:
Twin chainfist contemptor with a havoc launcher, a heavy flamer and a grav gun for 175pts
You get stun(0), panic(1), and pinning (1) with shock(pinning) on your ranged weapons on a decently durable platform that also has 4 S11 ap2 D4 attacks with armourbane and shred.
Fist-temptors bros winning once more
>>96169977>Deredeo with the S10 lascannons is downright scarynta but imo that will be fixed when they'll make Skyfire snapshot ground targets again.
>>96170233I built mine with a meltacannon so im running it with a meltacannon. But yea, grav in the fist seems good.
>>96170233That sounds pretty cool, but the Panic test is going first, and if it fails, the others are skipped.
>>96170248fix what? Which skyfire weapon is too good and needs toned down exactly? Skyfire is a niche rule that comes at a premium for most chassis, the benefit is that you can kill flyers effectively if they come on.
>>96169865You brought it up first. And everyone is looking for a solution/alternative for 3.0 because itโs hit caca. Are you fucking retarded or worseโฆ.a redditor?
>>96169914You sound like a Redditor faggot defending 3.0. Suck a dick and how about you grow the fuck up.
>>96170265Are you serious?
>>96170058Not the guy just exercising basic logic here. Iโd say the same thing about any ruleset proposed by anyone and wait to see the final product. You people are spiteful little faggots. Get some pussy dude or go for a walk
>>96170312>"Someone spat in my soup, time to eat a log of shit instead"Do circletards really?
>>96170265Nta but the others are skipped? Why? I can't seem to find it in the status section of the core rules.
>>96170337>>96170344>>96170360one sec bros, it's because routed contain all debuffs from other three
>>96170348I donโt even know have a concrete opinion on the guy because I also disagree with him on some things. But to dismiss something you havenโt seen regardless of the odds of it being shit and casting it away, dude itโs your right to do so that much is true. But you canโt take the high ground and think youโre right because you have nothing substantial to go off of, other than some weapon profiles and hearsay. Youโre not coming off very smart. Do cocksuckers really?
>>96170341>wait to see the final productDon't need to see the final product to be able to tell it's fucking shit. Example: the 3.0 rules.
Buy an ad.
>>96170369I think I misunderstood your original comment, you still get to test for stun and pinning if the unit you hit with flamer doesn't route right?
>>96170381You donโt know what youโre talking about. You have nothing substantial to base your claim off of. Jesus Christ this is the average TG poster right here.
>>96170378>>96170394you sound EXACTLY like the 3.0 shills lmao
Cope harder macca. No one will play your shit rules, and you will never actually release them.
>>96170393yes you check for panic first, if the unit fails its panic check then you move onto whatever other statuses need to be checked
>>96170324>>96170312>>96170341Three posts in 8 minutes just seething that no one wants to play your half baked attempt at a ruleset that will die in 2 months if anyone actually tries to get it going
It's 4am in Australia right now, don't you think you should get off the internet and go to bed?
Maybe make a video on your channel that no one watches about how you're the best rules writer in the world when you wake up
And never post here again
>>96170337>>96170344>>96170360>>96170393Here you go, bros; it's in the description of the Morale sub-phase of the shooting phase. The Routed check goes first, and if the target unit resists it, then the other checks from other statuses do not apply.
>>96170409No oneโs coping here. I outwardly said if itโs shit itโs shit once it releases. The thing is with 3.0 that we had the whole fucking thing leaked and said it was shit. See the difference? Course not because you have your boyfriends cum in your eyes. Get fucked faggot
>>96170413sorry, passes not fails
>>96170460fuck i messed up
>>96170463I'm sure coming here and calling everyone faggots is the best way to convince them to play circle edition, keep going
>>96170460No, the other checks don't happen if you *fail* the routes check, i.e. if you get routed. You still do the pinning and stunned check if the target unit doesn't get routed so having more weapons that inflict status effects is insurance against the target unit succeeding their check
>>96170483My mistake, anon; I read it again, and now I see the light. The other anons were right.
>>96164370>FP10 S6 AP3 D2Isnโt that basically identical to the gun thatโs on a fire raptor?
>>96170493It's ok anon, I love you anyway :)
>>96170475If this was being produced by anyone else, even some random person who no knows, would you shit on it just as much? At the same current stage with little to no information? Answer honestly.
>>96170327Seems that you will be spared, this time.
macca is going to save 30k and the pardocuckies HATE it
>>96170511Is that what it is?
>>96170511I hate this online personalities shit and whatever series of events lead to it.
>>96170516yeahs its the pardofags and their discord freak allies seething at /ourguy/ macca, as usual.
>>96170508If it was being made by anyone else at the current stage with no information I wouldn't have to because there wouldn't be retards like you shilling it in every thread
>>96170511FYI: Macca gains from hating it just as much hating on it as SN shills it. Itโs all horseshit in the end. Just play if you wanna play simple as.
>>96170533Say what you want about Pardo but at least he doesn't have his pet faggots come and shit up our threads
>>96170538Is your problem with it being brought up constantly? Iโll dial the name calling down and you do the same. I just want to see your side of this.
>>96170555>at least he doesn't have his pet faggots come and shit up our threadsyou are right here.
>>96170555Havenโt the threads been shit for a while before any of this came up? I wish people could have better discourse and understand each other better in general.
Is a Raven Guard veteran army viable? It seems like three veteran tac squads are the max possible. So am I forced into having regular tac squads to have enough line units in my army?
>>96170573pardofags have been melting since 3.0 got leaked
>>96170555>Say what you want about PardoI will, he is a fucking short hobbit of a man who is so insecure he takes the slightest offense over the smallest fucking things.
Pardo Faggins is his name.
Guys please stop giving attention to the circle shill
He's acting like a drooling idiot on purpose because he thinks it's funny to get a hate train going on Macca
I hate the guy too but it's getting tedious
>>96170578Just how many vets do you want, anon?
>>96170555you are one of pardo's pet faggots though
>>96170615Good point, I guess my aim is ultimately 3000 points in an army. Enough vets that I have sufficient line to make the game fun for both parties
>>96170578>Is a Raven Guard veteran army viable?it is in the good editions of the game
Mechanicum should get veteran thallax.
>>96170650They do with the Reductor prime advantage
>>96166744whatever models you like more. Only thing is what rulebook you want
>>96170674Panoptica does not count
>>96170283There are multiple weapons that used to have strong profiles to successfully attack flyers thanks to skyfire. To prevent them from being OP and to narrow down their role, Skyfire used to only shoot snapshots at ground targets. They forgot to print that part. And now there are weapons that are literally called anti-air something launchers that have a better profile against non-flying X targets than dedicated anti-X units. They also give Skyfire to Siccarans and Dorito autocannons because they removed the helical targeting array from them. This is going to be FAQed.
> Which skyfire weapon is too good and needs toned down exactly? I don't think they should be toned down. They should not attack ground units without snapshots. because they usually have other weapons to attack them. Tarantula guns (this gun can be used on a tank from the journal, btw), probably Dorito's breaching 5 autocannons and D4 lasers with three shots (why pick something else?), and Dorito's Borean air defense missile (limited to four of them, AP2 D3). Scorpius Skyspear warheads 3A 2AP D2
>>96170684>probably Dorito's breaching 5 autocannons and D4 lasers with three shots (why pick something else?), and Dorito's Borean air defense missile (limited to four of them, AP2 D3). Scorpius Skyspear warheads 3A 2AP D2Literally none of these weapons are overtuned. The dorito has a good weapon in line with its points cost. At 200pts that lascannon better be good (and it is).
The arcus having skyfire on its 3 shot D2 missiles is also fine. It is an objectively worse profile than its regular missile output (which is the same, except without skyfire/armorbane and with 5 shots instead of 3)
Skyfire weapons are not too good or underpriced, and it therefore does not matter that they can fire at full capacity at ground targets. The 4 shot dorito missiles being able to hit ground isnt OP, its the bare minimum you would expect from a 200pts+ unit that has a weapon limited to four shots per game.
>>96170248Idk what makes you thing they aren't going to do that
>>96170684>I don't think they should be toned down. They should not attack ground units without snapshotsThats toning them down einstein. It is reducing their power to attack conventional targets (presumably because they are too effective at it).
>>96170684Jesus christ you retard the doredeo autocannons and lascannons never had skyfire, and helical targeting array was a CHOICE to shoot as skyfire. The ARCUS (the scorpius never had skyfire missiles which you'd knew if you actually played this game) has a BETTER anti ground profile on its DEFAULT MISSILES
>pardofags think GW is going to faq 3.0
lmao
>>96170684>Completely oblivious to the fact these units used to have a helical targetting array, allowing them to Skyfire with all their weaponsTourist spotted. Your opinion is meaningless. Get the fuck out loser.
>>96170716The arcus could take a helical targetting array as well.
>>96170684>Skyfire used to only shoot snapshots at ground targets. They forgot to print that partNo, they simply decided to remove it. Skyfire weapons being able to pull double duty vs ground targets isnt an oversight, its clearly intentional given that none of those skyfire weapons are overtuned for their job, they are not optimal choices for ground attack.
The fact that the deredeo is able to use its lascannons vs both flyers and ground targets isnt an accident, GW didnt forget to add "btw it cant do this properly, that S10 D4 gun is for firing at flyers only"
>>96170721Literally no one has said that
2 x 5 man mkii sprues just showed up
it's gonna be a fun weekend lads
>>96170789I just got my 60. It's Despoiler time baby.
Where the fuck are assassins
>>96170792Probably in the custodes pdf or legacies. Maybe in a dlc book instead (and if they do it better come with more fucking Traitor assassins)
You can't tell me this was not written by AI
>If you're not allowed an armour save, you may choose to not make an armour save
>An invulnerable test may be taken if: an invulnerable test may be made
>>96170780>>96170684>This is going to be FAQed.
>>96170706I don't believe Skyfire will stay that way. Maybe I'm wrong, but anti-air-named weapons attacking ground units doesn't feel right. GW already knows about that, so if they change nothing, then we will know this is intended, or "we forgot, but we won't be changing anything."
>>96170792In the core book, assassin are in the talons section
>>96170716Can you fucking read? The point is that GW dropped the anti-air rule on guns that never had it and basically removed that rule on guns that used to have it. Now an anti-air gun is just a gun and often more powerful than other ones.
>>96170813blame retarded fantasy players for having their invulnerable saves being FNPs
>>96170722>to the fact these units used to have a helical targetting arrayI know that, you dumbass. The point is the removal of HTL is because these guns got skyfire. Read previous posts you idiot.
>>96170813You just have poor reading comprehension. This is one of the worst examples you could use for AI. The book is quite literally littered with Google AI summaries.
>>96170844So needless repeats and obvious contradictions were written by hand?
>>96170681Agreed. Panoptica does too much for my taste. I like some of the fixes, like loosing cumbersome on stuff. But adding custom options is too far. No way I could just tack the whole thing into every game.
>>96170813>a Model may not have an Invulnerable Test made for it if:>An invulnerable Test may be taken to discard a Penetrating Hit if one is available to the ModelIt wasn't
AI is not this retarded
>>96170853None of it repeat needlessly or contradicts. Try reading it slower, perhaps out loud. Dont stop until you complete the sentence.
>>96170813>invulnerable tests for woundsvs
>invulnerable tests for penetratings hitsit's not that hard if you're not ESL
>>96170791Nice. Gonna wait for a better deal before I get more myself.
>>96170873But anon
I am ESL
And so are many players
We get the English book because GW translations are garbage and often contradict the English version
>>96170887blame this on the misfortune of your birth
>>96170898I thank God every day I'm not a mutt or an angloid
>>96170887Then learn to read English. You not understanding the language does not mean other people did something wrong.
>>96170908Seems the more English one knows, the more retarded they are
No thanks
>>96170681>>96170861In case you aren't being ironic this is from book 1.
>>96170929I'm not being ironic
I'm posting things without verifying because since 4chan is anonymous, saying something stupid won't affect how others see me
>>96170950I really wish other people understood this.
>still building my shooty NL army for 2.0
>theyre now a melee army
god dammit
I'm just tired of the doomposter/hopeposter shitflinging.
>>96170813I'm English and the people hating on you are just being autistic. I don't think that's AI but why would you choose to write something that way - it's needlessly repetitive.
>>96170963NLs still benefit a ton from shooting bc that's how you'll be able to trigger statuses which then make them better in combat
>>96170963You know you can always just keep playing 2.0 or even go back to 1.0, my friend. James has no power to make you play 3.0 if you don't want to.
>>96170813>>An invulnerable test may be taken if: an invulnerable test may be madeThat's not what it says
it says
>>An invulnerable test may NOT be taken if: an invulnerable test may be made
>>96170992Yeah sorry that's what I meant to type
It's still contradictory
>>96170963its by design because they want you to buy new stuff btw
Here's another one
The trigger is an enemy unit ending a movement
The first step of the reaction is that the enemy unit has to finish moving
Pardo has actually made some reasonable and insightful videos 3.0, more or less realistically giving the state of play with the edition. Pardo is king (though if he was ratting out the leaker thats pretty lame).
>>96171015Just because there's a hate train on Macca going doesn't mean we're going to start glazing Pardo faggins
>>96171030you are either team macca or team pardo
file
md5: 0db4c14e6fb359072e1672cff7ea5aff
๐
they really aren't sending their best
>>96170989NTA, but it is literally not your choice, this game requires 2 people to play, if the people you play with only want to play 3.0 then you're just fucked.
>>96170987What if you don't want to melee though? I heard in 40k something to the effect of
>There's only two factions: Tau and Orks โ they either want to melee or they don't. IG is Tau, Tyranids is Orks.And they said that marines, despite their plethora of shooting option, was Orks because they'll always want to melee, at least with something.
>>96171013Another what. You trigger the reaction when they move into range, but they have to finish moving to proceed with the reaction.
Retards like you are why its written like that.
>>96171070No. I am against ALL YTroons. They are all pathetic attention whores who don't deserve oxygen.
>>96171084then you still have a ton of fear to spread around and can status lock your opponents with shooting
>>96171085It is retards like you that make them write rules like this
The fucking reactions triggers when move ENDS.
IT'S RIGHT FUCKING THERE FFS
NO. You don't need to make the first step 'ending the move' when ending the fucking move is the thing that cause the reaction
>>96171013I guess step one is unnecessary; it already said the enemy unit has moved. It is too bad that this is a Ranged reaction, as it lets a unit to escape an incoming enemy, but does not let it pursue an enemy that moves away:
If the enemy BEGINS its move within 12", but actually ends it outside at, say, 13", the reacting unit may not reposition. Meaning a melee unit cannot chase.
>>96171013I assume thats there to ensure no confusion regarding "so I moved one model into range, does the reaction happen while I move the rest of them or what"
>>96171103It's ok Discord-kun. You can go be retard somewhere else.
>>96171112>>96171103>>96171085Trigger is once a unit (not model) ends it's move within 12"
Therefore to react, the movement is already over
>>96171085>>96171103thankfully circle heresy wont have this problem ( reactions are being removed because they are a dogshit mechanic lmao)
>>96171070"Either you suck this retard's cock or you suck this shil's cock"
"Can I just not suck cock?"
"Lmao what are you, a fucking centrist?"
>>96171134Circle heresy won't have any problems because it will never release
>>96171134Macca, just say you miss winning by sole virtue of getting the first turn
>>96171070I'm team ecelebs are poofters and so are any of the parasocial rejects who support them.
>Heresy has fallen so low that the only people in this thread are idiots arguing about YouTubers
Anyway, would it be acceptable if my thousand sons master of descent was floating on a disk instead of having a jump pack?
What about if I wanted to run them as loyalists sometimes?
Arenโt the kraken rounds or whatever making BS5 breaching 4+ bolters in seeker squads just insanely good? With the number of shots I donโt think they look bad even into non-saturnine termies and they just clean up on power armor, even at a 2+.
>>96171200>Anyway, would it be acceptable if my thousand sons master of descent was floating on a disk instead of having a jump pack?It would be unacceptable if he was NOT.
>>96171207They only get like 1 shot i think maybe 2. So 5 man seeker squad which is like over 100 points gives you 10 breaching 4 shots, i mean...EH?
>>96171200Circle isn't a YouTuber
He's a podcaster, community organizer, a rules writer and a model designer
And you think you can call others idiots lol
>>96171207They are decent weapons but not particularly amazing. Terminators are T5, you are only going to do 1W to them with a unit of 5 guys. And you are killing 4 MEQ.
A tactical squad would kill 3, it's not that different
The suppressive option or the nemesis rifles sound more appealing desu
>>96171266Meant to say combi-weapon, not nemesis rifles
Assault marines
Dual fist contemptors
Anything else I need for WE? Am I gonna get turbofucked when I bounce off terminators or something?
The baiting replies by mentioning a youtuber never ends. It's free fishing.
>>96171207Yes because precision still wounds against majority toughness. So itโs easy to snipe out primarchs. Even more so with thousand sons who can make them rending in addition. Two TS seeker squads will kill a W6 primarch even after factoring in their chance to fail the corvidae power and perils of the warp.
>>96171294are you not using red butchers on the one edition they are good?
Guys how shit does this sound as a rough idea for 3k
500 points are going to be
Artillery command
Basalisks x3
1 10 man las section.
Then doing Dangles and thinking about bringing 2 LR with tacticals and a spartan with 10 knights or DWC, 2 javalins and then a jet bike retinue.
>>96171307There is probably easier ways to kill a primarch than 400p worth of snipers
>>96171344using land raiders for tacticals seems pretty silly
>>96171294Surely a double fist contemptor isn't necessary anymore
>>96171352I could do breachers.
>>96171345If there is I havenโt found it. And I hardly believe that it will do it in one round of shooting from 30โ away.
>>96171362they are worse than tacticals
>>96171331More of a loyalist guy running terran vets that were too old to take the nails.
>>96171367I dont have them built yet but, i could be a shitter and run 2 heralds with 5 man terminator DWC squads
>>96171358Well surely I need something kinda tanky and/or capable of handling enemy armor? Without using a tank myself. Would just massed assault squads work?
>>96171362Sure but I meant more put the tacticals on a rhino
They want to get to objectives fast so putting them on slower transports seems like kind of a waste
You can also put breachers on rhinos now
>>96171381You kinda need the Line unless you are a master tactician
>>96171381heralds dont do anything anymore
>>96171392>>96171390damn well, tacticals in rhinos it is
>>96171367Breachers are great. They are heavy and can take a nuncio-vox. They arenโt there for offense, they are there to inflict pinned with grav guns and not lose their own objective due to a status.
>>96171387I meant give it a cannon and a fist. Double fist doesn't provide a bonus unless you want the palm gum specifically
>>96171392Heralds score VP for killing people in challenges. So they're champions if champions were cool.
>>96171381>2 heraldscommand rhinos and masters of signals have an ability to give Line 1 now
Herald do something else if that was your intention
>>96171407>Breachers are great.line (1)
>>96171421Lol. Lmao even.
1 extra VP per cycle doesnt do shit when you get your dudes mopped by a Glaive.
>>96171408Double fist gives an extra attack. Also means you can stack multiple chances of debuffs when running grav and flamer.
>>96171436>muh glaiveshut up retard
>>96171212What if I ever ran him as a loyalist?
>>96171436>Taking LoW>When anyone can deepstrike meltaguns up your assholeIdk about that
>>96171436As much as I like the look of beeg volkite, the glaive is a prime example of getting fucked over by all-or-nothing AP when anyone shows up with terminators. If the Fellblade, Falch and Glaive are all 650pts, why take the Glaive, literally ever? The Blade gets 5" AP3, and has AP shells too. Falch got nerfed to no longer have volcano cannons so can't do 5" anti everything removal.
>>96171487Mfw you bring a falchion against an infantry spam list and it gets to kill 2 tqcticals per turn.
>>96171485>fishing for 6s to pen for 6 damage>LoW has 18hpyouโre just throwing away 300 points
>>96170989See, I dont know if thats up to me very much. I dont know if the local area/wider community will play 3e or stick with 2.0 or what. So im currently in a limbo of building units that I think ill use for either edition while trying to see which way the wind is blowing.
>>96171534That's kinda why I'm saying since the Falch lost the volcano cannons, the Fellblade seems far and away the best choice.
>>96171487Nta but what the hell are you on about? A 5" blast is not going to get anywhere near the same amount of hits as a 12 shot Deflagrate gun with Ap3. The glaive kills an average or 12 guys with a 3+ sv, even if they have 2 wounds. The fell blade cannon will maybe kill 3 or 4 if they are bunched toguether
And a single 3" Blast is sure as fuck not going to be killing more than 1 terminator
You kill more terminators with the sponsons in either case
>>96171542>fishing for 6sGlaives have AV12 mate
>>96171487glaive main gun kills ~8-9 tacs or vets per turn. bad bargain against tacs, good bargain against vets. obviously the same goes for all the legion specific units stuck at 3+ save this edition.
Dear anons. I plead for your wisdom. Volkite Culverin stats?
>>96171557>>96171557Fellblade is the take-all-comers option, which is really what you want in a 700pt unit.
>>96171553I gave up. I'm finishing off the army I started before 1.0 and adjusted for 2.0, and that's it. I'm not going shit for 3.0. If someone wants to play only 3.0, I guess I can scrounge something together, just like I do with 10e, but I'm not bothering to get stuff for said editions. 2.0 already fucked me over a little while adding stuff I needed, but 3.0 is a full own downgrade on all fronts with nothing positive.
>>96171569>Volkite Culverin
>>961715693 shots, 4 if stationary. Rest is same as before
At 15p and 50 base unit they are not very different from before desu
>>96170977It's GW's attempt at Legalese. Because WAACfaggots always try to worm around the rules as written.
Like a thing going around 40k now is that Drop Pods can declare charges. Despite not having a movement characteristic, it is argued that the rules do not specifically say a unit must have a movement characteristic to charge, therefore the Drop Pod can declare a charge and use the Tank Shock stratagem.
This whole thing is ridiculous and done (mostly) as tongue-in-cheek because no tournament organizer would allow it. But it's the sort of twisting of the rules as written (or neglected to have written) that WAACfags will attempt to exploit.
>>9617163340kfags at it again. In other news, DAfags take it up the bum.
>>96171603>>96171601>>96171579Thanks anons for your valuable inputs.
>>96171601Grenade launchers being D2 feels kinda big. Combi-grenades might be better than disintigrators for killing VEQ
bruh only thing i wanted was to make mass jetbike white scars army and they killed all characters on bikes. Might just wrap it up. Or make Blood Angels idk.
>>96171654Characters on jetbikes are like, one of the things we KNOW are coming back in the legacies.
Does anyone have a leaked reference to Master of the Legion giving an extra reaction? I've seen people mention it but I can't find it anywhere in the leaked rules.
>>96171662Can't score still
>>96171654Deep strike melee is dead, bad time to pick up Blood Angels.
>>96171673>Can't score stillDont score, just kill the enemy.
Would a knight army be cross compatible between 30k and 40k?
>>96171649What even can take grenade launchers in the legion armylist? Are combi-grenade launchers the same?
>>96171649What even has a grenade launcher? This is not the combiweapon version
Are Cerastus Knights still fast? Surely the must be. No way they move as fast as questoris, right? I yearn for the knight pdf
>>96171686Yes, but don't expect to make friends in either. They're also not particularly interesting in terms of their involvement in 30k which is one of the setting's biggest appeals.
>>96171677I'm coming around to the idea that I dont give a fuck about the scoring, I just want to nuke the other army. Even if they win VPs, and I wipe them off the board, I'm the psychological winner.
>>96171689>>96171688The combi version is the same
>>96171668Nope. It must be in the missing USR pages from LA.
>>96171693>Yes, but don't expect to make friends in either.Who needs friends when you have big robots?
>They're also not particularly interesting in terms of their involvement in 30k which is one of the setting's biggest appeals.You mean lorewise or gamewise?
>>96171686Probably yes
But you are gambling on how long it will take for GW to get a sudden attack of retardation and ban the big ones in 40k or the small ones in 30k
>>96171708>You mean lorewise or gamewise?Yes.
Knights are neither super prominent in the lore nor super involved in the mechanics of the game.
>>96171704>Not limitedI knew I was doing the right thing making those combi-grenade launcher veterans!
>>96171673what about Night Lords?
>>96171721>in the grim twilight of the 30th millennium, noob tubes still OP
>>96171688combi grenades are the same and are one of the only combis that arenโt limited use now.
>>96171728That was the case in 2.0 too. That and volkite werent limited, flamers too maybe. Plasma, melta and grav were. And disintigrators.
>>96171708Oi you self-centered dumbass, if you have no friends, that means you have no one to play with, or were you the guy running 9 dreadnoughts in 2.0?
>>96171734flamers are the one that wasnโt limited before. It makes sense they would be now
How do you guys come up with names? Not titles, those are easy. Actual names for people. Like how do you decide what your praetor is called?
>>96171746It's hilarious that the combi-plasma is still limited when you compare it to the grenade launcher
>>96171735I haven't played 30k yet so can't be me. Anyways my friends don't want to spend money on 40k, let alone the more expensive 30k. I'll just play at the store.
>>96171766I take a real name or word and change letters until it sounds vagely similar but recognizably different. For example my centurion started as Cassus Belli and ended up as Cassian Vehl.
>>96171704My M203 Seekers just got options. 2 Bolter shots and 1 Krak at 24 from Vets seems pretty good. Though hard to beat Breaching 4+.
>>96171766Looked at my family tree, looked up the coolest mother fuckers (e.g. ppl who had done crazy shit, some who had military careers) and used their names with a bit of adjustment as necessary to fit the 30k vibe.
>>96171766Sometimes I pick supporting characters from the books. Latin and Greek names and words also work.
I have a plan for my Alpha legion termi praetor with a hammer to be called Ferrus Manus inkeeping with that typical dry marine humor. Not like Ferrus is using his identity anymore after Isstvan V...
>>96171825I will repeat that you need an alpharius(not that one/no relation) in there somewhere.
>>96171766For my Blackshields, my characters are all slightly twisted names of knights of the round tables and my units are named after legendary weapons from the arthurian cycle for infantry and from the ulster cycle for tanks. For my word bearers, I took names of sinners in the Bible for my characters and all the units are named after metal songs and albums, mostly Judas Priest.
>>96171766You can look up what sort of names are the basis for your legion. Some are easy, like Smurfs are Latin names, Dangles are Latinized Hebrew names, Yiffs are Nordic.
I haven't bothered making names for my EC, but I did for my 40k Space Woofs.
And for lower-ranking models that got names, they'd be something like "Floki Ranulfsson" - still known by their lineage. While veterans and above would get names based on accomplishments. I liked to base them off accomplishments in actual games. Like Ulfric Trollslayer, who won a 1v1 against (pre-9th) Ghazghkull, or Erik Alfarsbane for charging into a unit of Howling Banshees, surviving their swings by utter dumb luck and striking back, killing 4 of them in one fight phase.
Silly things like that.
>>96171794This is the way
One of mine started as Frodo Baggins and I changed a few letters until it became Pardo Faggins
>was converting an old mk3 into an apothecary for my oldmk3 20 man tactical squad
guess he will have to be a nuncio vox guy now instead, since i need one.
>>96171860You had me in the first half ngl
>>96171724Contekar seem real good.
>>96171692Cerastus are still m14
>>96171724NL look strong this edition
But BA are perfectly fine. You don't need to deepstrike everything with a jump pack...
They know how to move normally too
>>96171692>No way they move as fast as questorisIsn't the point of Cerastus that they are faster than questoris?
>>96171910>But BA are perfectly fine. You don't need to deepstrike everything with a jump packPeople got too comfortable with that BA rite of war giving them guaranteed t2 zero scattering DS they could charge out of
>>96171923I thought the same but it's just how they worded it i.e. no way they move as fast as = no way they move the same as (questoris)
>>96171724NL deepstrike comes with four shot volkite or heavy flamers. The rest can assault out of a dreadclaw or storm eagle, just like God intended.
Can't decide if I think WB are salvageable this edition. +1 combat res is fine, but also not great. Gal Vorbak hate multi-damage weapons and are way easier to kill. Mhara Gals look decent, walkers eat up detachments/prime slots. I don't know, I'm just not feeling it.
>>96171704Blackpill me off CombiGrav, anons
>>96172019Nothing is salvageable about 3.0. Look back to the past or keep moving forward toward a darker future. Anyone who plays 3.0 honestly is a massive faggot nigger. CONSOOOOM GW SLOPPA
>>96172026The worst thing you can say about them is that 1 is probably all you need
>>96172032go be retarded somewhere else macca
>>96172019I'm reading the Malefic rule, and I don't see the upside: Rather than being temporarily hurt, I am permanently hurt?
>>96172019Welcome to the bland legions (14 of 18). Please buy the Legion Tactical Journal DLC
>>96172038Scattered on Sgts & Characters; seems....better than a S4 Disintegrator
>>96172041How about you suck my dick you 3.0 sissy?
>>96172044You can never get statuses and ignore modifiers to all checks. It's better to lose a few wounds then to lose a unit for at least a turn to complete uselessness.
>>96172044malefic is a great rule. you get the iron warriors trait, except when you fail you just lose d3 wounds. so you never lose your objectives unless someone actually engages you in combat. the problem with malefic from the WB perspective is that it's not unique to them, you're much better off playing malefic SoH or malefic DG.
>>96172044statuses are a complete bitch. They fuck you up badly
>>96172044Any status stops you from scoring
And you don't win by tableing your opponent anymore
Whatt is the current rulebooks needed for legions imperialis, and is there a link for them here somewhere ?
thanks!
Am I tripping or does Malefic on a vehicle make it immune to glancing hits??
Though you would need to somehow get it in a prime slot (like for example on Sabres in Headhunter Leviathal)
>>96172146RAW yeah you're right, and because the rules specifies you take wounds instead of the status and vehicles don't have wounds you take no damage.
Won't be too broken on a sabre but if by some miracle future detachments give us prime armor slots you could make some truly disgusting combos.
>>96172048Word bearers were boring last edition as well.
>>96172146How would you give a vehicle malefic? They have no prime slot
>>96172183Sabres and Land Raider explorers in headhunter leviathan for example.
>>96172183Sabre are recon and I firmly believe this detachment was made when Seekers were still FA and they updated the text without thinking.
>>96172213>Outflanking Land Raider Explorer with immunity to glances Rewards of treachery indeed
>>96172212>>96172213Then surely true believers states infantry only right? Right?
>>96172133This is also the atg, but I don't think it is really supported here.
There may be an anon who has them and can hook you up but in the fresh thread I would ask again because this one is probably rolling over soon.
>>96172213It's always the AL breaking things...
>>96172223How do we tell him
>>96172222So you're telling me a single centurion can unlock 4 land Raiders with outflank and immunity to glances (and also 4 slots for seekers, one of the strongest units in the game)?
It has never been as over as it is right now lmfaooo. Hopefully people brought enough s9+ (that will also survive four land Raiders and X amount of seekers)
>>96172242>>96172231You guys deploying 8 malefic turrets or 4 malefic land raiders will force GW's hand to nerf that detachment for everyone else.
They're not just going to prevent vehicles from being malefic (that would be reasonable). No, they're going to overstep it and nerf the entire detachment.
Damn traitors.
>>96172242To be honest one guy just getting put in charge of 4 land raiders is fucking funny.
>>96172213>>96172222>>96172242Oh for fuck sake. I just wanna play alpha legion because they look cool and I like the lore, and I always end up getting worried looks from people because they're infamously OP in LImp and 2.0 given the possibility of infiltrating talons of dreadnoughts. This is like being an unironic UM enjoyer before Ward beat that horse to death with an exterminatus.
>Fair and balanced Alpha Legion 3k
3xCenturion - 160
6x Headhunter Leviathal:
12x Malefic Land Raiders - 2640
2x10 tac squads - 200
I challenge/hhg/ to find something both dumber and more powerful than this.
>>96172273You just know they'll bring the nerfhammer down of everything in this combo instead of just fixing true believers
So, unless I bring some HQ, the only list I can make is 4 Rhinos and infinite troops, is it?
Plus mechanicum, as their Techpriests are troops
>>96172231>>96172242>>96172273Discord-kun, what are you doomposting about? Glance fishing is for retards, what are you even going to do with this?
>>96172299>12x Malefic Land Raiders - 2640fucking lmao
>>96172299It's beautiful.
>96 av14 hull points with immunity to glances and outflank>48 lascannon shots per turn.The emperor weeps
>>96172231True believers is not WB unique?!
>>96172299Thank god they didn't bring this strategy to the Siege of Terra.
>>96172316Nta but immunity to glances means that everything s8 and under might as well not exist because you've got no way to interact with the land Raiders at all. Fishing for glances is retarded but this means it's not even something you have the option to do with the rest of your army.
The retarded movement rules (and nuRamming also means that any type of infantry army is just going to get literally run over by the tide of land Raiders
>>96172335no WB get Impact(S) as a prime, which is fine but flavorless. even their detachment sucks, because it's apex so they can't spam it.
>>96172299>ideal space marine: landraider ratio is approximately 2:1
>>96172321>immunity to glancesThat'd need Spartans, but yes
>>96172348Such is His will
>>96172350>>96172321Ahh but they're malefic, yeah nvm...
>>96172339>>96172347Absolute desecration.
>>96172299>fuck all scoring>every AT weapon worth a damn has armorbane anyways and ignores glancing hits
>>96172342>Nta but immunity to glances means that everything s8 and under might as well not exist That was always the case. Welcome to AV rules. The good anti-tank options are S10 or S12 and wielded by caddy carts and Vindicators
>>96172299Land Raiders dont score.
So whats the point of this challenge system? To bog down the game?
>>96172377>>96172384I don't think someone that brings 12 goddamn land Raiders to a game really cares about scoring lmao
>>96172384Drop 2 land raiders and triple the tacs you have.
>>96172385To have epig duels on top of buildings!!!
>>96172385unironically yes
>>96172385To be cool. Too maybe give your centurion or master sergeant a chance against a superior opponent.
How much it fails at this is Jame's incompetence rather than the concept
>>96172385it feels like a white dwarf minigame they made and just put it into the game
>>96172307Without HQ you can bring:
>Four troops>Four transport>One slot of your choice with Logistical prime benefit>A LOW of up to 25% of your points>A retinue and heavy transport in the Warlord detachment a 3k points>As many allies as you like up to 50% of your total points
>>96172321>>48 lascannon shots per turn.
Given thats your entire army(more or less)? Its really not that impressive. 1/3(16) of that just misses outright. The remainder are S9 Ap2, which is nice, but theyre also only d1 (because youre going to be moving). So that entire fleet of land raiders adds up to around seven terminators dead per turn (not counting the heavy bolters, which bring it up to a neat 8).
>>96172385To make character combat more engaging and eventful, rather than "see who fails an invuln first"
>>96172408Well theyre not exactly going to table the other guy are they? Scoring is how you win the game, if youre going to talk about how powerful your list is you really should consider it.
>>96172413It surely will not dumb down to everyone just picking finishing blow every single time
>>96172422I think its honestly worse at doing this than the previous system
does master of the legion stack for RP allotment?
>>96172428Gambits would work if some of them weren't just obviously better than others.
>>96172426You have enough Land Raiders you could afford to park a few for a while. Plus, they're going to reach position in short time.
May I remind you, Land Raiders Explorator move as fast as Rhinos and their dozer blade keeps difficult terrain from slowing them down, on top of having Outflank
>>96172426I mean, you could park three land Raiders on every objective while your tacs and centurions. Doesn't matter how much scoring your enemy brings when he can't even get them on an objective.
And if he's already got squads on objective, , have your land Raiders run doughnuts on them, inflicting d6 s6 hits for just running over the pinkie toe of one of the squad members.
The biggest obstacle to running this list is honestly just manoeuvring that many land Raiders on the battlefield, realistically you're just going to get the mother of all traffic jams
>>96172453I think each might have its place, especially when duels are among non-equals
>SeizeReroll Focus dice (+0.75 Init)
>Flurry+1d3 attacks (~2A) but those attacks are set to unmodifyiable D1. Which doesn't really limit D1 power weapons
>TestNo bonus in the Focus (no Duellist Edge, Light or Outside Support bonuses) or Strike (no +1A if going first) steps, but he counts as winning that round. That is, if he survives.
>Guard Up+1WS, A=1 (-4A most of the time). Each enemy failed hit grants +1 to the Focus roll of the next round of the duel if it keeps going (+ 3-4 Init next round)
>TauntReduce WS and A down to match the enemy's (or -1WS -1A if it's equal). Gain +1 to Combat Res for every time the character picked this gambit (if they win the duel)
>GrandstandReroll Focus dice and discard highest (-0.73 Init), and gain no Focus bonus from Outside support (- 0-2 Init). But in the Strike step, model receives the Outside Support bonus they wouldn've gotten as extra Attacks instead (+ 0-2 A). Do notice you would've gotten +1A had you won Focus, so it's really -1A to +1A on average
>FeintAvailable only whoever has the Advantage. Enemy cannot take the gambit you name. Reminder the enemy already can't take the gambit you take, so if all you want to do is keep the enemy from taking Seize, you should simply Seize instead. Can be used to block Legion-specific gambits though.
>WithdrawYour character only does a single Attack, but character can make the duel end despite not having the Combat Advantage, and no Combat Res is awarded. That is, if he survives.
>Finishing BlowReroll Focus dice and discard highest (-0.73 Init), but gain +1S and +1D to all attacks.
>>96172428>It surely will not dumb down to everyone just picking finishing blow every single timeIt isnt (probably).
For one thing finishing blow doesent change the breakpoints for D2 weapons into praetors, which is going to be a lot of the duels. So that matters. For another going first is important. The system seems more or less balanced and theres a lot of things which seem like they could work there. Finishing blow is strong, but going first or having more attacks or getting +1WS to not die might all be more important in various situations.
>>96172422I dont think the system is designed to let a master sgt realistically punch out a praetor, and evaluating it as if thats supposed to be a plausible outcome strikes me as silly.
>>96172453Theyre surprisingly balanced imo. Theres obviously goto gambits for certain strats, but theres enough merit to the different aspects of it (going first, hitting harder, providing buffs if you win) that it shouldnt homogenize too much.
>>96172460And dont score, so for every 100pts of dudes, of which youre killing like 2 of a turn, youre getting 3+ points per turn behind.
>>96172385The point is for my +10 Initiative saturnine Praetor to kill your primarch
>>96172453I think each might have its place, especially when duels are among non-equals
>SeizeReroll Focus dice (+0.75 Init)
>Flurry+1d3 attacks (~2A) but those attacks are set to unmodifyiable D1. Which doesn't really limit D1 power weapons
>TestNo bonus in the Focus (no Duellist Edge, Light or Outside Support bonuses) or Strike (no +1A if going first) steps, but he counts as winning that round. That is, if he survives.
>Guard Up+1WS, A=1 (-4A most of the time). Each enemy failed hit grants +1 to the Focus roll of the next round of the duel if it keeps going (+ 3-4 Init next round)
>TauntReduce WS and A down to match the enemy's (or -1WS -1A if it's equal). Gain +1 to Combat Res for every time the character picked this gambit (if they win the duel)
>GrandstandReroll Focus dice and discard highest (-0.73 Init), and gain no Focus bonus from Outside support (- 0-2 Init). But in the Strike step, model receives the Outside Support bonus they wouldn've gotten as extra Attacks instead (+ 0-2 A). Do notice you would've gotten +1A had you won Focus, so it's really -1A to +1A on average
>FeintAvailable only whoever has the Advantage. Enemy cannot take the gambit you name. Reminder the enemy already can't take the gambit you take, so if all you want to do is keep the enemy from taking Seize, you should simply Seize instead. Can be used to block Legion-specific gambits though.
>WithdrawYour character only does a single Attack, but character can make the duel end despite not having the Combat Advantage, and no Combat Res is awarded. That is, if he survives.
>Finishing BlowReroll Focus dice and discard highest (-0.73 Init), but gain +1S and +1D to all attacks
>>96172348You can fit many more marines than that in a land raider, anon
>>96172473I think they need to be sorted in "what round should you use this" as theres the -1 per wound lost factor for your focus score
>>96172273This is a specialist game. Nothing is getting nerfed.
>>96172460>you have enough land raidersYou have what, 8 showing up in the first batch?
>Plus, they're going to reach position in short time.Youre entering from the battlefield edge and move only 12", youre not exactly usain bolt. They move as fast as rhinos, but rhinos start far closer to where they want to go.
>>96172471>I mean, you could park three land Raiders on every objective while your tacs and centurionsYour opponent is almost certainly getting there first, because outfllank is an active disadvantage when trying to rush objectives and without outflank your strategy is even riskier because they can just kill the tank with line in it and win.. And land raiders do not have the damage output to get them back off it (nor can they even contest objectives) on their own.
>>96172273Theyre just going to have malefic vehicles lose hull points instead of wounds. Which actually doesent really matter for the land raiders because theyre not actually going to be glanced most of the time.
>Tourists arguing over how best to break the game and what the best exploit is
Plastic models were a mistake.
>>96172088>Malefic Alpha Legion prime recon>4 Malefic Tarrantula Batteries immune to 100% of status and immune to glancing hits>S4 can never harm themBut yes, Death Guard is much better legion trait than WB and if you ever want to use a primarch, Horus / Big Horus are one of the only ones who stand a chance killing Vulkan (and easily assfuck most non-vulkans)
>>96172167This is the type of rules oddity that usually does end up being changed in errata so I wouldn't rely on it being around forever.
But don't let that stop you, particularly if you convert some possessed land raiders.
>>96172482But now that's bloat, all these extra steps and rules that could be simpler for the same effect.
>>96172475Alright, anon. Let's make a good list then. In light blue there's the ones who depend from Centurion A. In light red the ones who depend from Centurion B. In green, the ones from the Main Detachment, not counting the centurions themselves.
Centurion A's Prime is Rewards of Treason: Grey Slayer Troops.
Tactical 1's Prime is Logistical Benefit: Tacticals.
For 400+ pts, and with out antitank and Line needs already covered, what are we missing? Maybe a Master of Signals, to buff those Outflanks?
>>96172523Must Outflank units outflank? I thought it was optional.
>>96172492Depends. If only one guy has suffered any wounds, then that's -1i. But if both are bloodied, that's -1i to both sides...which is equal to both, right? It's always -1i regardless of inflicted wounds.
I think it's also got to do with your weapon. If the other guy has 2W left, maybe Finishing blow would be pointless on a Hammer that is already D2.
>>96172474Finishing Blow is optimal in 100% of cases provided you can reach a breakpoint.
That's never ever skip for Horus, Lorgar, Lion, Ferrus, Guilliman, Vulkan
Almost certainly best: Sang/Russ/Alpharius 5+ crit, Dorn 4+ shred, Konrad (5+ crits autoproc Shred for Dmg3 then Finishing hits 4)
Only ones not spamming finisher non-stop: Corax & Fulgrim
For normal troops, there's less Eternal Warrior and less 6 wounds involved, so the gambit system is just as boring and trash, but the optimal switches to just Strike-First, Strike-First, Strike-First.
It's a system made by a retarded game designer. Putting damage on any gambit was the wrong decision - they just fucked up again right after the problem of BRUTAL in HH2. +100% damage dealt is always better than the other shitty alternatives.
>>96172526Honestly, easiest way to break the game is to let GW to publish something new.
>>96172577it's -1 per wound lost, so it doesnt equal at all.
Primarch 1 chooses weak-go-first, deals 1 wound to Vulkan. Vulkan chooses finishing blow, deals 4/6 wounds to the weak bitch.
Next turn weakbitch is at -4 initiative and Vulkan is at -1 initiative. So Vulkan has good chance to now strike first while opponent has only 2 wounds remaining and Vulkan has 6 wounds remaining.
Unless you have a guaranteed turn1 kill, anything other than FinishingBlow is usually mathematically pointless.
>>96172526That's just what happens when you take away modelling options from players and force them into rigid loadouts that remove creativity.
>>96172579If the other guy seizes, he's not killing you. If you then Grandstand, you will be out-damaging him, and then it's like a free seize, which can be either added on top of real seize or combined with something else.
>>96172610Seems like Finishing Blow is king. Seizelets on suicide watch
>>96172649Idk why I said Grandstand when I meant Seize lmao
I think I want to get an atrapos for the simple reason that his template can one shot all primarchs save Horus Ascended, Vulkan, and Mortarion.
>>96172649>Idk why I said Grandstand when I meant Finishing Blow lmao
>>96172649>Seems like Finishing Blow is king.Just like i predicted.
No AP2 on the opponent? Just go for Finishing Blow.
>>96172579>Finishing Blow is optimal in 100% of casesIt isnt even optimal in 100% of primarch fights.
>For normal troops, there's less Eternal Warrior and less 6 wounds involved, so the gambit system is just as boring and trash, but the optimal switches to just Strike-First, Strike-First, Strike-First.Seize the initiative is NOT the god gambit for normal fights.
>+100% damage dealt is always better than the other shitty alternatives.Finishing blow isnt +100% damage for the heavy weapons. It is also apparently not good enough to mitigate for first strike advantage (t.(you)) so what are you talking about?
>Putting damage on any gambit was the wrong decision - they just fucked up again right after the problem of BRUTAL in HH2Youre absolutely out of it if you think the problem with brutal was "damage dealt" rather than "how brutal interacts with saves in a game system that has instant death".
>>96172679you're allergic to math. It's really simple how overpowered +1damage +1s is. The math has already been done and proven the others do fuckall.
>>96172691>>96172679On Hammers, S7 is already good enough that won't need +1S. It is the +1D what matters there.
Although a point has to be made: if the enemy has 2W left, +1D would be pointless - it's the time for Seize.
So I seems Finishing Blow is the main thing, and Seize is the actual finisher?
>>96172691>+1damage +1s+1D and +1S is completely fucking useless if you are already wounding on 2s and it doesn't make you need less attacks to kill the opponent
It also comes with a significant initiative disadvantage
>>96172649What this sort of mathshammer (which I am also very guilty of) doesent really capture is the way finishing blow interacts with breakpoints, and in a wider sense how highrolls work.
Take for example the NL axe, it has crit. If it crits, and you pick finishing blow, it becomes damage (4), which has the chance to just end the fight in one hit vs a praetor. If it doesent crit (or the crit is saved) then finishing blow does essentially nothing, because your breakpoint vs a 4w model remains "two hits"
For another example, your average damage if you go for a gambit that lets you strike first (or gives you more attacks or whatever) is (for example and pulling numbers out of my ass) 3.3, in reality this isnt actually how the damage CAN work out, so whats the distribution of outcomes between "deals enough damage to kill opponent dead before they strike" and everything else. Is that (ideally not >50%) chance worth it compared to something like finishing blow, which would have a higher % chance at dealing lethal damage but go 2nd, and potentially end with you being highrolled?
If for example you have a 30% chance of killing your opponent if you go first, do you focus on going for that? At what % to kill is it worth it?
>>96172707Yes that's the whole technique. You finishing to knock enemy to super low wounds and initiative, then the very last hit you go Speedy and opponent is slowed by their wounds.
Guilliman does this by Finishing with Powerfist and then switches to speedy sword + ultramarines speed gambit if opponent is near-dead.
Lion can do it by Finishing then switching to LionIsntWounded gambit when opponent is barely hanging on.
Magnus does this by first beating with Finishing (dmg4 force weapon plus the extra wounds) then switching to nerdInitiative gambit (or Sieze+Divination's passive Duelist Edge1 bonus)
Sang does the Finishing first then can switch to RedThirst ignoring wounds for the finisher.
Did anyone happen to have scans of the titan rules? interested to see the profiles / special rules
>>96172691In an abstract white room? Absolutely. Its +50% damage for thunder hammers and +100% damage for power weapons and paragon blades, its the best!
But now comes the reality check. If you go go for it you will (chances are) go 2nd vs someone else. Going first gives an extra attack (so already a 25%-20% damage boost right there). If your opponent goes first they have a chance to just kill you if they have the proper weapons for it.
Then you strike back and deal so much more damage! Except potentially not really/in a way that matters. You have your attacks (4/5 usually), often hitting on 4s and into a 4++, the chance of binary "lots of damage or zero damage" is quite high, so you potentially risk doing nothing instead of getting a chip wound in through weight of numbers. You then have breakpoints. If your opponent has 4w then a 3 damage weapon and a 2 damage weapon are as good as each other (at least when it comes to how many hits you need). Your finishing blow thunder hammer does the exact same damage as your normal thunder hammer (thunder hammers are probably going to remain the premier character weapon). Also remember that if your opponent went first they control whether the challenge continues, if you get lucky with the hit? They can just take the CR loss and call it a day, denying you a kill.
There are definetly situations where finishing blow is almost always the best gambit choice, but those situations are not going to be nearly universal.
>>96172755I should also make it clear that I do believe that finishing blow is probably the best "damage" gambit and will probably be one of the most commonly picked. I just also see clear limitations for it and enough situations where you use something else that I dont think its power is a necessary problem, especially with the inherent element of risk it carries.
>>96172711times that's true when you should've accepted the challenge: exactly zero
Other than stomping baby-champ-sargeants which have no reason to even accept your challenge, the fights where you don't just open with Finishing Blow are fights you cannot win and shouldn't even accept the challenge. For example, Corax attacking Horus. But you have a 99% chance to lose that fight, because you strike first and tickle him for 1 or 2 damage, then he FinishingBlows and absolutely fucking spreads your gaping asshole wide open and splits your entire body into two pieces with his big throbbing Dmg 4 and Dmg 5 critical Cock. With 6 attacks he's satistically getting 2x D5 crits each one Corax losing 3 of his 6 wounds if he fails a 4+.
Winning initiative does give you the choice to attempt to run away if Horus doesn't instantly kill Corax (but he will usually instantly kill Corax), but if you run away with 2 wounds remaining and opponent has 6 wounds remaining, then he massively won the Combat Results and your unit is at risk of running, plus accomplsihed nothing but their own primarch being near-dead... that's an absolute defeat for Corax. And if you don't run away, you just die phase 2 of the challenge and have even less options as you started with 2 initiative because of your wounds.
Those few times when Seize is optimal for starting, the opponent should just not upgrade their sergeant to be allowed to accept duels so you can't even seize in the first place - or they should've just ran their unit with some Master of Signals away from your Kharn the Betrayer so you can't seize and one-shot him. Or they can see Kharn coming and have the Master just leave that unit and run behind a building while the assault squad fights without him.
The gambit system is not anywhere near interesting choices. In tournament play you'll see easily 90% being just 2 gambits (barring analogues that do exactly the same thing, like ten +initiative gambits for the Seize situations at ends)
>>96172818Praetor vs praetor. Literally praetor vs praetor. Both wound each other on 2s, both need 2 hits to kill the other. Neither actually has much issue killing the other. Are you going for that finishing blow buddy? Seize? Grandstand?
>>96171724Night has been removed from the game. So you'd be playing the ---- Lords.
>>96172826Or hell, centurion vs centurion, here finishing blow actually does something. Are you risking it? It halves your needed number of wounds, is that worth it for going 2nd with a 5++?
Most of your combats are not going to be primarch vs primarch, theyre (probably) not going to be some tricked out combat monster/special character vs a hapless sgt or master of signals even. Youre going to have peer and near peer combats. Do you go for the finishing blow?
>>96172826if you bring a weak 4w praetor, let the enemy praetor charge you, then choose to accept his gambit, he gets to use Seize even if you want to use Seize or any other gambit. That's a challenge that should never happen. If it has happened you have already lost. Put your praetor in a unit which has a sacrificial champ-sergeant or just dont let the enemy praetor charge your praetor. Grandstand doesn't change who wins that fight, TestThefoe doesnt, TauntandBait doesnt, FeintAndRiposte doesn't, Withdraw doesn't. It's an entire system with just 2 gambits. The one you use to instantly win fights that shouldn't have happened (seize), the one that deals big damage (finishing), and the one you use after finishing when opponent just needs tapped over (seize again)
>>96172867Anon, thats where you pick guard up. You turn 6 attacks into 2 hits (and a +4 to focus next round if it continues). There is literally a gambit for dealing with "I am worried my opponent will alpha strike me. You really arent very bright are you?
>>96172715I don't know if I mentioned it, but that math was meant to be a good old Thunder hammer duel, which I believe will be the base against which all other duels will be compared against.
It does not assume equal combatants; one may be a terminator, another could be wounded, etc.
Critical Hits might be an interesting scenario that could be common (Paragon blades are currently a forced Wargear on the champion who is also forced to duel), but I'm away from my PC atm
>At what % to kill is it worth it?Whenever the opponent's remaining wounds are equal or less than the expected average damage (which is the number actually calculated) AND equal or less than your blade's damage.
Example, let the math show that your average damage would be 2.5, you are wielding a hammer and your opponent has 3W. Do not seize; go for Finishing.
Another example, your opponent has 2W left, Seize shows 2.5 damage and you're wielding a hammer. Seize
>>96172891>which I believe will be the base against which all other duels will be compared against.I think thats quite likely.
But what that maths doesent show is the variance. It shows the average outcome, but the difference between one and two unsaved wounds is quite high right? So whats the chance of the latter happening? What chance does the seize guy have to just win before the enemy fights back?
Which is basically the point behind my question, at what point does a statistically unlikely event become something you consider as possible (or even try and aim for). If you have a 45% chance to win before the enemy gets a chance to do anything, do you take it?
>waiting to see what everyone else does at flgs
>will probably be no one playing heresy at all
>>96172881You were retarded enough to ever use Guard up, you lost the fight because you have been retarded enough to give up 4 attacks to make one single attack and he lands on average 2.5x as many hits with his thunderhammer than you land. Your praetor loses 2-4 wounds and deals 0 wounds. In the branches where you survived with only 2 wounds lost then the -2 initiative cancels out the extra focus from guard's useless 2nd half. Enemy won combat resolution and also won challenge advantage for Seizing, so he gets to choose the first gambit again. He chooses Seize again and your 2W praetor dies no matter what gambit you pick. Yeah, you're absolutely retarded.
>>96172755I do see another possibility: a metagame
By now, everyone is saying "gotta Finisher first, then seize".
What if you Guard? A WS6 opponent on your WS7 guard might miss 4 of their 6 attacks. That's a +4i for the next phase. -2 for the wounds, that's a net +2i.
The other guy will have received statistically 0.5 wounds, yes. But next round you'll go first and it'll be 2.5 wounding hits on average for your 3D weapon. Idk, you might get lucky irdk
>>96172932it's not a possibility. Guard is entirely worthless. Dropping to 1 attack is a non-starter.
>>96172932>Legion champion with paragon using guard gambit>WS 8
>>96172932* oh, and also, anyone stupid enough to pick Guard after Sieze - you gave opponent 4-7 attacks free vs 1 attack and gave him Challenge Advantage.
Challenge Advantage means opponent is allowed to decide if there's a round 2 to the challenge.
So he can take his free 2.5x more damage than yours, then decide there's no round 2 to the challenge. So you never get ANY bonus initiative at all.
>>96172482It's pretty crazy they put a flat +1D modifier in amongst all that fancy stuff.
>>96172944https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYw4i4D1Sm8
Basically this. Let the enemy army take their whole salvo at you, then you say "it's my turn now, right?" and he says "Nah, challenge is over. No round 2"
What does the focus roll in a challenge do?
The TSon one is cropped but it looks like you replace your roll with the model's WP characteristic
>>96172922>If you have a 45% chance to win before the enemy gets a chance to do anything, do you take it?Yeah I get you. The average sum of 2d6 is 7 or higher, and that happens like a 59% of the time, right? I'd take it.
It's not a guarantee, but this is a dice game. Sometimes variance strikes and we'll have to live with that. It's a natural part of the game, right? :D
If it was 100% accurate, predicable with 0 variance, I believe that would be bad and unhealthy for the overall game and fun :(
>>96172929>and he lands on average 2.5x as many hits with his thunderhammer than you landDo you think GUARD up is an offensive choice?
>2-4 wounds taken 1.6 on average, so lets round up to 2, to be nice. Thats you at +2 for the next focus roll (more than size gives on average, which is like +1).
>then the -2 initiative cancels out the extra focus from guard's useless 2nd halfYea man, +4 to focus is useless. Thats why seize the initiative is so bad.
But also, pick one:
>going 2nd is a death sentence and whoever first will automatically win because they kill their opponent>adopting the defensive stance that means you wont die is bad because it reduces your damageThe two cannot coexist.
>>96172959Its essentially rolling for initiative in dnd terms. You roll d6 and add your combat initiative (models initiative modified by weapons and shit), and then add for stuff like a combat shield/outside support and subtract for stuff like wounds taken or being heavy (or having a normal boarding shield iirc). Whoever ends up with the higher value goes first and gets +1 attack.
>>96172970Oh damn, so you almost always go first. idk if that's optimal but it is kind of cool
>>96172929You know theres like a 1~ wound difference between using guard up and seizing right?
>>96172929>>96172935>>96172944Waaait. The whole point of Guard is that you take a couple wounds but will attack first next round, even if the other guy has the advantage and would cast seize
>Then he just casts FinisherUh oh
>>96172976>Oh damn, so you almost always go first.Depending on your opponent. A praetor is I5, add a combat shield +1, a dice roll +3.5 on average without any rerolls or whatever and some outside support and they might be going before that. Or they might not.
Importantly it lets YOU take a very slow setup (heavy armor, thunder hammer/power fist, maybe even being wounded) and still have a chance to go fist, so its definetly useful.
>>96172989>a chance to go fisttypo or genius?
>>96172978If you say it because of this
>>96172649, do notice the 1.7 wounds are the ones being made by the other guy. The one actually doing the guard does about 0.5 wounds. I wish the penalty for guarding wasn't so severe, then it could be an actual option
>>96172944>>96172954So what youre saying is that the gambit turned the situation you were pissing and shitting about being unwinnable into "take like, a wound"? How terrible.
>>96172959whoever charged picks a gambit first, other guy picks a gambit, then you total your focus of your initiatve + weapon + gambit + cheerleader bonus (+1 initiative per 5 cheerleaders watching), then you both roll 1d6 to add to that. Whoever is highest wins Focus and gets to do all their attacks first. And they get to choose at the end of the boxing round if there's going to be another boxing round or if the fight ends.
That person gets to select what gambit they want before opponent (who can't pick the same gambit)
Magnus gambit just adds +initiative equal to his willpower minus the enemy's willpower. For primarchs that's 11-10 so +1 initiative, not worth a gambit. Against a lowly Wip8 centurion, +3 initiative is more reliable than Seize the initiative for letting Magnus just squish the little guy first. And it means the Centurion can charge magnus, try to use Seize, and Magnus can't legally also use Seize, but since he has a 2nd initiative gambit he can use that to strike before the Centurion anyway.
>>96172948It's almost like hitting after the enemy is not worth it unless it comes with a high reward
>>96172999>haha, I'll take half my wounds, deal 0 wounds, and lose combat by 2>I really showed that guy!!!!You are a funny type of mental retard, schlomo.
You picked the situation and you picked the gambit and you STILL managed to make a retard out of yourself and lose objectively.
>>96173004Ah, I couldn't see it was the difference. I thought tac sgts were adding 8 to the roll
>>96173016Just hit hard enough with your one attack.
>>96172997>If you say it because of this >>96172649,I dont, I say it because 6*1/3*5/6*1/2/*2 is like 1.7 (1.666...)
2/3*5/6*1/2*2 is around 0.6 (0.55555555...), So a difference of around 1, which is even closer than that because both parties are using damage 2 weapons, and this all evens out to "less than an unsaved wound apiece on average".
>then it could be an actual optionIt is an actual option. A defensive one. It should not be an offensive option too.
Its a gambit that severely reduces the damage you take and gives you a significant benefit to the focus roll on subsequent rounds. It having your opponent try get some chip damage in before chickening out of the challenge is a perfectly acceptable outcome.
>>96173023Chad. Prime Irons Hands chad
>>96173016>>haha, I'll take half my wounds, deal 0 wounds, and lose combat by 2You deal one less wound than the enemy on average, and set yourself up to be much stronger in round 2.
>you picked the gambitThe entire scenario is predicated on you pissing and shitting yourself about how terrible a challenge where you go 2nd is because the enemy just picks the auto win seize gambit and just kills you.
>>96173016As opposed to getting murked by a Tribune or a Primarch for no reason, yeah, thats a fantastic outcome. Discord-kun.
I hate doomposters so fucking much
>>961730231 attack with a dmg2 weapon gives up even the possibility of hitting jackpot as the most possible damage ever is just the 2. It's not even an interesting gamblers gambit. It should have been something like
"you go last, with -1 to enemy's attacks, for each 1 that opponent rolls to hit, add 1 bonus attack with your weapon when your turn to attack comes"
(It has to be 1s instead of all-misses or it'd increase damage too much.) That one would be an alternative to finishing blow. Finishing would still be better for mega-hammers like Vulkan, but ImprovedGuard would have been an okay stalling weapon for Corax types. The current Guard is simply useless mathematically.
>>96173004>11-1012-10, the trait gives him a +1 beyond whats on the statline. Magnus is WP12.
But also I believe anon meant the generic gambit, which just replaces the roll entirely with your characters WP characteristic. (so 12, in magnus's case)
>>96173048>1 attack with a dmg2Then don't use a d2 weapon. I don't see a d2 weapon on that list. Are you a fucking cheater putting a d2 weapon on a Leviathan?
>>96173048>ever is just the 22 is more than you take on average with that gambit, so its a fine outcome.
>>96173057I forgot the +1 willpower for TS counts it as base-willpower even though it's a modifier.
The main benefit to the ThousandSons legion gambit is just that it ignores the -4 initiative if you've suffered 4 wounds in a previous round.
Otherwise someone like Lion's 7 initiative + cheerleader 2-4 initiative + D6 easily matches a 12 Focus score making it a relatively weak gambit.
(Magnus already has +1 initiative if you have divinitation psychic, which lets him average 12.5 with just 10 cheerleader models watching)
But if both people have suffered 2-4 wounds initiative penalty and the cheerleader units have been wittled to half size, then Thousand Sons gambit becomes quite useful as it ignores 100% of positive/negative modifiers)
>vigilator and recon squads only have precision through their weapons now
Boooooooo
>>96173027It makes sense if you can kill the other guy in that round now that you are going first. I don't think you can.
I think you'll do 0 wounds the turn you Guard and the other guy will do 3. Then you'll do 3 wounds next turn, and the other guy will do 2 and with that you'll be dead.
0.55 + 3.75 is the average damage you'd be dealing, yes. But they do not add to 4.3, and you might need a 5 anyways
>>96173110when I saw Alpha Legion and Nightlords were actually fluffy and powerful in HH2, unlike 45 years of GW rules, I knew it was too good to be true. Then they give them dogshit rules, remove the night battles, give them weaker primarchs who stand no chance dueling Horus/Vulkan types, and nerf all the sneaky recon type marines.
>>96173137the opponent just simply takes their 3 wounds free and declares themselves the winner of the challenge which is over with the guard user never having gotten more than 1 attack in the entire challenge. Anyone who uses guard is simply a moron.
>>96173048If you debuff your enemy's attacks and still get to make all of yours, Guard wouldn't need to add anything else desu
>>96166920I was planning to bring my sigebreaker and iron fire, guess I do 4 arquitors or 2 and then 2 vindicators? Awesome to have so few options
>>96173199you do realise you can just use whichever detachments you want right? you have literally more options than ever before. that's like the one good thing about HH3
>>96173110good, no more bullshit multi-melta snipers
>>96172297You did lose Recon Squads who add 8 inches of range onto anyone trying to shoot at them at least. And your Headhunters now are... weird? Like... I think they're meant to be a melee unit now, weird?
>>96173101>Magnus already has +1 initiative if you have divinitation psychic+2, divination is +2
>>96173137>I think you'll do 0 wounds the turn you Guard and the other guy will do 3Both of those are mathematically incorrect.
>>96173143The fluffy NL gunline. The legion was most famous for eschewing melee troops in favor of laser destroyers and sniper rifles.
