DAWN OF THE FINAL DAY edition
>Previous thread:>>96179187>HH 3.0 Leakshttps://imgur.com/a/jYokLre
https://files.catbox.moe/98h6h7.pdf
https://gofile.io/d/cnJk0N
>Mech Leakshttps://imgur.com/a/lRaqKSw
>SA Gofilehttps://gofile.io/d/YEEqBN
>New Edition upon ushttps://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/setting/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads:https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>Thread FAQ (very old, remembers Age of Terra)https://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8
https://pastebin.com/8riDmnhS
>30k TACTICA & TIPShttps://pastebin.com/Tm2P4QLp
https://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Age_of_Darkness-Warhammer_30k/2.0_Tactics/General_Tactics
ใAdeptus Titanicus and Legions Imperialisใ
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloadshttps://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/legions-imperialis/
>List of Titan Legions with Badges and Colourshttps://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17Jccq0V--SwJifLVLwbisYnQeqLlS2pMSiPbGXp1Brs/htmlview
>More listshttps://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_Titan_Legions
>What size magnets do I need?5x1mm
>Tacticshttps://1d6chan.miraheze.orug/wiki/Adeptus_Titanicus/Tactics
>Thread question:So are you OUT, or are you IN?
>>96183938 (OP)I have a game scheduled today to decide if I'm in or out.
>>96183938 (OP)In. Trying to build a list is convoluted as hell though.
>>96183938 (OP)Building some of the new models right now, games planned for the coming two weeks, and the local HH group is starting an escalation campaign for 3.0 in the coming months. HH 3.0 is in full swing baby.
>>96183938 (OP)Out, I'll keep playing the editions my friends want to play with.
>>96183938 (OP)IN. It's looks a lot more engaging than last edition and there's much better internal balance
+Jumppack veterans
I don't care that most things got toned down desu
I will be asking opponent to use proper LoS tho
Yes
md5: ec79ccf1811e102a2129e4963f9609fe
๐
Titanicus
>>96183938 (OP)>TQI'm following whatever my fellow sheeple decide to play at my flgs.
They haven't decided yet, so neither have I.
Thread JUST died so reposting here.
Starting a proper traitor force with Death Guard, painted a big 20 man squad of tactical marines so far. Trying to work out a 'core' roughly 1200 list that I'll take most games and then use the remaining points for everything else. How does this sound?
>20 man tac squad w/ vexilla, nuncio, augary scanner, Sgt w/ artificer and scythe, attached Apothecary w/ scythe.
>20 man tac squad w/ vexilla, nuncio, augary scanner, Sgt w/ artificer and scythe, attached Apothecary w/ scythe.
>5 man Reconnaissance squad w/ 5 nemesis bolters.
>5 man Reconnaissance squad w/ 5 nemesis bolters.
>10 man HSS with auto cannons, tech marine w/ cognis signum, and a nearby Siege Breaker for sunder on a nearby unit (not actually in the unit, so they can keep the heavy bonus).
How does this sound? Good core? Too weak/strong? I want to use 20 man tac squads for a Great Crusade massed legionary feel, as well as Death Guard resilience with Apothecaries and Heart of the legion. But I'm willing to avoid it if blast or getting swept will just waste my points. Building this for 2.0 also, maybe will use in 3.0 if my group ever moves over.
Let's get that Knight/Titan PDF
>TQ
IN, tentatively. Building my army to start playing at the LGSโs 30k club, lots of buzz about giving 3e a chance but retreating to 2e if itโs shit.
>>96183938 (OP)>TQI'm not jumping ship, so I'm IN on second edition. In a years time my group may give third edition another look, but it's not something we want to get involved with as it stands.
>>96183938 (OP)>So are you OUT, or are you IN?I will play whatever people around me play, and am building an army which should function in either edition.
>>96183984>traitor DGMy brother. Why waste points on vexillas for a unit unlikely to really need them? Just looks?
>>96183938 (OP)I'm out. I'll be converting and painting whatever units and wargear I want for my shelf army
>>96183938 (OP)Anons I have my Saturnine box coming on Monday, but Iโm struggling to pick a legion.
What legions did you pick to collect and why? I need some inspiration show me why you picked your guys
GODDAMMIT why is everyone so obsessed with GREY WORD BEARERS. FFS I just want to see more saturnine in the real scheme.
>>96184002>unlikely to really need themYou might have more experience than me, but you think so? I find them worth for reducing how much they fall back and preventing going off the table on it's own.
>>96183842Gonna start posting all the mechanicus special rules and wargear now.
I don't know which of these are mechanicus exclusive so I'm just gonna post everything.
>>96184013It's the pre-heresy scheme and just like many people jumped ship from 40k to 30k, some are now jumping from HH into the great crusade or unification wars to get away from GW.
>>96184008The picture anon posted in
>>96183984 made me want to go with Death Guard. Iโm even basing my guys with mud, skulls and sludge (very original, I know). I also really like the idea of big blobs of legionaries trudging forward and thumping relentless firepower into the enemy while phosphex shells drop into their positions and rhinos disgorge more guys to douse them with corrosive chemical flames.
>>96183938 (OP)I'm IN
for playing 1.0 tomorrow.
>re. anon in previous thread saying DA are strong
They are flat out worse than any legion with a real "Rite of War" and I'm not sure why that's hard to understand. You can't evaluate them in a vacuum, only against the other legions
>>96184008UM for going heavy into the Roman theme, given 40k blasted any flavor from em and made em just generic. Also paint scheme is nice with white, gold, blue.
AL for the lore and paint scheme. Bit on the cold side as the silver trim blends a bit with the rest of the metal, but using akhelian green gives a nice almost iridescent effect.
WE loyalists. Survivors of Isstvan 3. Decent scheme, best lore.
Since there is a L/R disintigrator pistol, odds that they get added to Destroyers next along with any model can swap a bolt pistol for a serpenta or hand flamer?
>>96184008The most important things to consider when picking a legion:
>Do you like their lore?>Can you see yourself painting the colour scheme?>Is their preferred style of warfare something you like to play?I landed on Alpha Legion because I really liked their duality of being masters of infiltration and spec ops, but at the same time so thirsty for recognition that they want to style on their enemies during a final fight.
Having played 40k for a long time my preferred play style ended up being MSU with multiple back ups and redundancies, which works very well with the AL rules in all editions so far.
And I like the most common AL colours too, so painting was fun as well.
>>96184048Can't you just imgur it instead of spam?
>>96183984I fucking LOVE when space marines are full of cables and tubes. Can't wait for mk4 and mk5 to come out.
>>96183938 (OP)>TQCan't decide. Don't want to go back to 1st because the only locals who play it are the kind of reeking cheesebeards who *enjoy* breaking the game with pieplatespam. 3rd has things I like, but also things I really really fucking despise and some of those also overwrite the liked stuff(eg; death of TLoS, huzzah! Oops, no, shat on by the awful terrain rules). Plus the thought of having to read through the obtuse slop of the 3.0 rules writing enough times to overwrite learned old edition stuff and embed the new way of doing stuff makes me weep blood, especially given it's almost certainly wasted effort given they'll upend everything again in 3 years anyway.
2nd seems the best option on the surface - I don't actively despise any part of it, the few issues are relatively well known and understood which makes them easy to houserule, and I've already gotten over the hump of learning it enough that I don't mistakenly remember the version of a rule or process from 4th edition 40K or whatever, but most of the local 30k scene that isn't the handful of stinking 1.0 outcasts are fully bought-in Muh Official Supported Gaem Tho paypigs that I fully expect to either go whole hog into 3.0 no matter how much they moan about it or just quit.
Seems I'm destined to be a nogames instragram whore.
>>96184008>RGBeen playing since 5e. Liked spec ops marines and bonus for "good guys". In heresy I started adding terran XIX marines because growing up is learning Arkhas Fal was a better commander.
>TSI actually got sent 4 boxes of MKIV by mistake in an order when I ordered just a small upgrade kit. Figured I needed a traitor legion and loved the candy red and gold. Plus space wizards fun.
Now I am splashing in allies hunting cool models and conversions. I really like Fire Drakes and Lerneans so I nabbed some.
>>96184034Good choice, loyalist or traitor? Death Guard appeal to me also, love the trench warfare vibe
>>96184052All good choices, WE loyalist really do speak to me, where can you read more about them, Black Books?
>>96184059>>96184027I hate Imgur but ok
https://imgur.com/a/kOFH8IQ
>>96184059>posting free rules for anons>"wow why are you spamming?"suck a cock
>>96184094For real? What if they also have the knight liber? We must appreciate leakers.
>>96184045>They are flat out worse than any legion with a real "Rite of War"Brainlet take. Why do DAfags just cry about muh wing rules instead of reading?
>>96184106I do also have the Knight Liber, the Aux liber is coming in the mail soon too.
I won't buy the Marine Libers until my blackshields have rules again so I don't have those.
Here's the table of contents, whats everyone wants to see?
>>96184081>loyalist or traitorLoyal to Mortarion. As of now me and a WB player are the only traitors in our club.
>>96184132The titan weapons would be nice, I don' think they've been shown yet
>>96184130Too busy being homo to read
>>96184137nta but seen the titan rules in a friend's knights liber. Hands down the best titan rules we've had since 4e apocalypse.
>>96184132Asterius page as far as datasheets and then all the weapons. If youd be willing to dump it all I know me and two or three other Anons would be ecstatic.
>>96184134You guys have clubs? Man Iโm jealous, in the south of England where I am thereโs none
>>96184027These are different from the imgur innit
>>96184137Hopefully the orientation of this isn't completely fucked
>the 1st print of the Libers removed Tartaros Power Fists
>the pic for the Legacies preview shows Tartaros with Power Fists and mentions how you can play them
The "Errata" is a ruse and the omission was intentional.
>>96184132>Here's the table of contents, whats everyone wants to see?Paradigms and detachments, pretty please.
>>96184045Anon what the fuck are you on about. No legion has "rites of war" any more, they have various aux detachments. DA have some of if not the best ones. They also have a lot more than anyone else, which gives them flexibility.
DA have a fairly generic/boring legion trait (not necessarily weak, just not very inspiring) and lots of flexibility in list building compared to other legions. Other legions have more interesting or immediately impactful legion traits, but have less leeway with how they can manipulate their list and more obvious "this is what you get an advantage with" aux detachments.
>>96184156Ours is the only 30k club in the state, and all the stores close by just do 10e 40k. Itโs a fun group outside of our resident IW loyalist guy who takes playing tabletop doll wars far too seriously.
>>96184163>D7 5" Blast Warhound PlasmaWut
That's way more brutal than dedicated anti titan weapon wtf
>>96184172I'll believe you when I see new tartaros terminators without power fists
>>96184190>S9 >no armorbane>power hungry (whatever that means)Remember titans are Av14+ from what weve seen, you ned those S10+ guns and armoorbane guns to get damage into them. The big plasma only pens Av14 on a 5+
>>96184161As far as I'm aware the leaked Imgur contained close ups of individual rules, I've posted everything in the Liber I got today as 2 page spreads here
>>96184089Because apparently some people were missing things.
As for all the other requests, it would probably be better if I just posted the whole Questoris Liber.
I'll make more Imgur links, one for knight datasheets, one for titan datasheets, one for weapons, rules and wargear and one for the Knight households/primes/reactions.
Just give me a bit to photograph everything.
>>96184178DA also have access to a ton of prime slots with all their special detachments.
>>96184163>Melee weapons with rangeIs that cuz they don't have a base?
>>96184059Wtf is wrong with you? Anon is leaking pages, and it's not enough for you, you fucking idiot?
>>96184210Its because titans kneeling down to punch a dude was silly. Plus with how big their weapons/titans are they should really have further reach than base contact.
>>96184076Iโve been reading about RG recently and again theyโre on my radar, I like the paint job some people can pull off, black doesnโt need to be boring I guess
>>96184214>Plus with how big their weapons/titans are they should really have further reach than base contact.That does make a lot of sense actually.
Keep in mind that 'play the older edition' is ONLY something available to people with a dedicated gaming group of friends. Stores will not, CANNOT do this if they want GW's support as a distributor.
You can't show up with an army on game day and say 'well by the way, this is a 2e army'. You can't go to an event and say it's an older edition.
It only works if it's prearranged, with people who are considering the same way, who want the same things.
So it's unrealistic for some people, unless virtually the entire Heresy community, including the majority of influencers and community figures, decides to stick with 2.0 and is vocal about it
>>96184207Yup. The wings are still very good (ironwing excluded perhaps). They just dont grant that tangible mechanical benefit.
>>96184130Are you saying that the 6 auxiliary detachment "wings" even out to the legion-wide buffs and aux detachments of other legions?
>>96184226>unless virtually the entire Heresy community, including the majority of influencers and community figures, decides to stick with 2.0 and is vocal about itWhich didn't happen, by the way. We're stuck with 3.0 until 4.0 hits in 2028 and is even worse. The good times are over. Robin Cruddace has come for our game system, and there is no unfucking it
>>96184226They won't because the majority of the community sucks big GW willie.
>>96184178You're retarded, "rites of war" is the 3.0 wording for the collective rules/bonuses of each legion - which is what I'm referring to.
>>96184207Yeah I agree there's a ton of prime slots, hence the legion becoming "Master Sargeants with Terranic Greatswords" for herohammer cancer minigames
>>96184234Yes - other legions gain tangible mechanical benefits AND have unique aux detachments. The detachment system really isn't a big deal anyway with a single centurion unlocking two
>>96184226Bro. They're not gonna let you play an older edition of ANYTHING at an LGS, not even the friendliest LGS, because it's bad for business to have people playing an unsupported edition who aren't going to buy any new books in your store. They're not gonna let you run events for older editions of anything to drum up interest, either: That's even worse for business.
There's a damn good reason why you don't see people playing older editions of 40k, Fantasy, AoS, even TTRPGs in local game stores. It's not gonna happen. If your primary means of gaming involve a store and you want to play an older edition, you're gonna have a bad time.
>>96184274This is bullshit, I play Battlefleet Gothic regularly at the (non-GW) lgs
>>96184226>>96184254>>96184255Kinda sounds like itโs time to make a community-run Great Crusade game
>>96184279Looks like the exact same as the current reaver sculpts just done in nu-hh style desu
>>96184276How does it feel to lie?
>>96184164Is it me, or is Titanicus actually the best ruleset GW currently sort of support? I know the bar is pretty low right now, but I think it might be.
Although NuNecro's not that bad ruleswise.
>>96184274How does it feel to lie?
>>96184279Terrible artwork compared to the Black Books
>>96184223>>96184210>>96184214They also had limited ranges in Titanicus. They wanted to also make it harder or less likely for small guys to punch a Warlord in the head, but they could never quite get it to work in a way that didn't slow down the game too much.
>>96184277I'd love something like that.
>>96184294Ever since they killed Aeronautica, absolutely. NuNecro comes in second place
>>96184279>>96184300New art of the old design. NUmk4 looks like this.
>>96184305Iโve wanted to write rules for something for a while.
>>96184314Yeah, I'm saying that the new artstyle looks terrible in comparison. Looks 3d rendered
>>96184309...eh, NuAero's rules were so so at best, too many tiny cardboard tokens everywhere.
The MODELS on the other hand were 10/10 fucking amazing and absolute goddamn joys to paint and detail.
>>96184277>community-runIt's doomed. Local Game Stores ban any community-run games. Anything that can't be officially packaged and sold is bad for business, and gets banned.
>>96184294Astronaut with gun jpg
>>96184294Titanicus is the best ruleset GW has ever produced, aside from maybe Epic Armageddon. The designer for Titanicus even noted he deliberately strayed away from GW game design philosophy to make the game as good as it could be, which is the same thing they did for Epic Armageddon, which had more in common with battalion scale ww2 games than past editions of epic
>>96184132all the weapons please
>>96184296Not lying. Call your LGS right now and tell them you want to run a battlefleet gothic event, or a 2e 40k event. Do it. Tell them you want to play those games in their store and that you'll be running demo games for products they don't sell. Do it.
>>96184163>3" blast plasma blastgun>3" blast volcano cannons>5" blast quake cannonsYou Fukken WHAT
EXCUSE ME?!
>>96184296Strange accusation to make but I guess some people don't have much going for them in life
>>96184332>Titanicus is the best ruleset GW has ever produced, aside from maybe Epic ArmageddonI dunno, I think you're underestimating Warmaster there. Well, okay, it didn't get amazing until Revolutions, but most of what makes it work was from Warmaster Ancients, so it still counts. I'd definitely say those are my top three.
I'm kind of required to put Blood Bowl in my Top 5 somewhere since I've been playing it for 20 years at this point. But... what Blood Bowl does well is that it's a math heavy game where carefully planning and dice mitigation and rigid self control absolutely will win you games. Even as badly dented and deformed as 2020 edition is, it still has that at it's core.
Agree with NuNecro, there's a great game at the core of it there. Definitely one of the least unbalanced games of that type GW have ever done with the least amount of house rules required.
>>96184342NTA but there's a difference between running a game that has been OOP for a decade and running the immediately previous edition of a still running game. No one is gonna lose sales if you play BFG. The store won't sell a single new HH book or unit if you all play 2.0 only.
>>96184354>No one is gonna lose sales if you play BFGExcept the LGS, which is giving table space to a couple of guys who are playing with miniatures and a ruleset they don't sell when they could be playing something they do sell and thus be buying things from them (and more easily advertised to)
>>96184332Best ever ruleset aside from Battlefleet Gothic, which is quite similar
>>96184363Unless nobody plays anythingo ther than BFG at the store, which I doubt, they will still make sells for all the other stuff as normal.
>>96184089Mechanicum needs a Beep Strike special rule, for robotos only
>>96184373Dude, trust me, my store would probably ban me if I tried playing BFG in there. They did it to a guy trying to get a Chain of Command game going there because it wasn't Bolt Action, and that's a miniature agnostic game. What do you think they'll do to you?
>96184323
>96184363
There is no point trying to discuss playing outside of the official and current ruleset with crybaby doomer fags like this guy, anons. His real hobby is negativity, just donโt engage in it with him.
>>96184274My local warhammer store openly allows people to play older editions. So long as it's a GW product you can play it.
Some guy pulled out the old rules for Full Tilt about two months ago and it was a gas
>>96184385Ahh he's an e-gimp, I see
>>96184387They'll fucking kill you.
>>96184387Huh. My local warhammer store doesn't allow games to be played in there because "it takes up shelf space and the people playing don't usually buy anything," and all my local game stores don't allow older editions of anything that isn't a TTRPG to be played in-store. Very odd. Almost as if you're lying
Has anyone played 3.0 yet? I don't trust Cataphractii. It's got a 4.25" average charge! Lucky Land Raiders can disembark after moving 10"-12" instead of only just 6" like in 2.0
I was looking at LR Explorators and I don't think disordered charges are that bad. All Cataphractii lose is like 1" set up and volley fire
>>96184401>people playing don't usually buy anythingNot while they are playing no, but having an active community will mean new players will join (and buy) and existing players still buy stuff from time to time. How out of touch must one be to not understand this?
>>96183938 (OP)>>96183938 (OP)>>96183938 (OP)L.
M.
A.
O.
Half the sprues having damages on the very few that sold for a deadgame wasn't on my 2025 bingo.
>>96184415>James we've got a sprue nibbler
>>96184409You also loose volley fire which is a lot of shots now.
I need ideas of where to put a centurion. Not consul; i need the Officer of the Line tax.
Not Lernean either, sorry for being so picky :(
>>96184415Oh my god
A scratched sprue?
That's never happened before
>>96184271>other legions gain tangible mechanical benefitsNo other aux detachments give "tangible mechanical benefits" the fuck are you smoking? Do you think NL still get terror assault night fighting? DA have as real a rite of war as anyone else, their legion trait isnt flashy but it is in line with everyone elses, their special units are fine, their aux detachments are arguably the best in the game.
>The detachment system really isn't a big deal anyway with a single centurion unlocking twoIts an insanely big deal. The difference between "I need an extra command slot" and "I dont" is really big, the ability to take units normally locked behind apex detachments whenever you want is really big.
>>96184271>"rites of war" is the 3.0 wording for the collective rules/bonuses of each legionThen DA have a real rite of war. So what are you shitting and pissing about?
>>96184414This isn't how GW thinks. There's a former employee of GW on youtube who explains this: They do not allow games to be run in stores. They haven't allowed it since 2021. Because of the reasons I listed. Is it retarded? Yes. Is it reality? Yes.
>>96184279>crusade vet/elite cross >golden coins>Reaver retarded, the idiots in charge have no clue about their own lore
>still keeping the mismatched mk2 torso because FW changed their armour mark at the last minute back in the daymore retardation
>>96184300That's the correct Reaver look up just before Isstvan 5. After I3 they changed their armour. Hence why it was stupid that the new traitor SoH elite was going to use mk2 when they had been in mk4 before.
>>96184314You don't know that. The new art is all over the place.
>>96184401Thats a pretty shit LGS lmao. I had a game of Badab last week.
fucking hell 120s wait time
Tartaros command squad with dual lightning claws. Yay or nay?
>>96184132Paradigms, Vows, Weapons
>>96184451>IW and TS sufferingIโm please
>>96184409Cataphractii still need a transport to reach close combat, that's no different than the older editions.
What is different is that now the transport moves 10" and still allows the cataphractii to disembark and move their full 6". So the absolute minimum threat distance went up by quite a bit. Fishing for those long range charges was very risky anyway.
>>96184163>chieorovile10 shots if it doesn't move? have fun storming the beaches, bitches
>>96184450It's cool, so yes.
>>96184415>need to etch a couple of shin grooves for MK2 armour>mould lines minimal and in convenient places to removegood on my end
quality/detail feels better than 40k's leviathan marines
>>96184163Whats the point of d3 volkite? Brutes and charonites?
>>96184497Daemons as well
Should EC players be raped?
>>96184450I think they merely do 1.6 wounds. Rending 6 Breaching 6, no?;Doesn't sparkle joy.
>>96184506So brutes and charonites then.
>>96184508No, it's what they would want.
>>96184510They have 5 attacks each. 1/6 of their attacks are automatic Ap2 wounds. I dont think you did your maths correctly.
>>96184294>>96184332>>96184352Titanicus has great rules but saying it's the bestest evah belies that it does have problems. The BASE ruleset is damn good but once you start adding in all the additions more problems creep in.
Is a laser predator and a vindicator enough anti-tank for a basic army? Or shoukd I make 2 of my rapiers into laser destroyers rather than heavy bolters?
Fucking hate painting moulded on hazards. What are you working on?
>>96184520Depends on how many/what vehicles you expect to see.
>>96184205Right, I'm done photographing everything.
>Knight army constructionhttps://imgur.com/a/gETA32z
>Knight Datasheetshttps://imgur.com/a/UU60bLV
>Titan Rules and Datasheetshttps://imgur.com/a/HqAriJA
>Special Rules, Weapons and Wargearhttps://imgur.com/a/9YS0YJG
>>9618451626 WS5 attacks vs WS5 enemies, so 2/6 of them hit and 1/6 go straight to rend, on Cataphractii enemies
26ร(2รท6ร(2รท36+1รท12)+1รท6ร1รท12) = 1.56
Wait. Termies are T5 now
26ร(2รท6ร(1รท36+1รท12)+1รท6ร1รท12) = 1.32
>>96184523I did Kopaka's banner
>>96184538Anon
26*1/6*1/2 = 2.2, the rends alone do more than that. Your maths is fucked up
>1รท12Found it.
>>96184531A pair of preds and a dreadnought from my IF buddy and an unknown number of Russes from a SA guy. He said heโs got mostly infantry but has โa fewโ Russes
>>96184549Kopaka? I hardly know her!
>>96184551Uuuugh there it is. 3.1 wounds. That one Termie is totally dead!
I need the points values for everything NOW
>>96184551The actual number, versus terminators, is 26*1/6*1/2 (rends)+26*1/3*1/6*1/2 (breaches) +26*1/3*1/6*1/6 (non-breaches)= 3.1
>>96184562Yea, 3w to terminators is not terrible for a weapon not meant for fighting terminators.
Thunder hammers and fists do roughly 2x that, while being unwieldy and worse into lower quality chaff (which is what you get LC to clear).
>>96184383are you Polish, by any chance?
>>96184561Once a woman at a bar saw a bionicle meme on my phone and asked me about it so I had to try and explain the lore after having three heavy cocktails on an empty stomach.
what the fuck. I can't take any cool shit in my army anymore, the centurions are sucking up too many fucking points due to the dumbass new rules. Can't afford to take fucking jetbikes anymore. Who designed this shit????
Combi
md5: 619c7307bfa54061bdaf3c34bb00d87b
๐
In case anybody missed it, GW remembered to actually print the rules for Combi in the Talons book. You do still get to fire both halves of your combi-weapon.
>>96184579Game is designed to be 5000 points + anon.
Consoom more.
>>96184576My wifeโs friend is staying with us for a short time and asked what I was building as I put together a tactical squad. I proceeded to vomit up lore for the Death Guard and talk for 10 minutes before I realized she was just asking to be nice and I just dosed her with autistic radiation
>>96184534Much appreciated anon
>>96184580The rule is in the legion libers too. The leakers just didn't post the page because there's other rules that were already posted on it as well.
>>96184580Did they remember to put in the base rules that you can only fire with 1 profile if the gun has several?
>>96184426My biggest peeve with the DA rules is that their gambit doesn't interact with any of their characters or equipment. The gambit specifically improves Critical Hit if the model/weapon already has it, but none of the legion's characters or equipment have Critical Hit. Just the generic Paragon Blade.
There is actually an hilarious bit of negative synergy though. A Paladin of the Hekatonystika can use the DA gambit alongside Slayers of Kings to give his Terranic Greatsword Critical Hit (5+.) Which would be pretty cool if it didn't also set his Attacks to 0.
>TQ
After watching some batreps, I think I'm in.
However, if my Iron Havocs suck, I'm gonna complain about it all edition.
>>96184607There's veteran heavy supports squads so just use them as that if they are bad
>>96184579Didn't they also up the points values for everything anyway?
>>96184603The weapon gains critical hit if it didn't already have it too. The gambit doesn't only improve existing critical hit.
>>96184534hero, thank you
Where is shooting WITH knights? I heard they count as stationary at half move?
>>96184616>https://imgur.com/a/gETA32zThat was a prime advantage, it should be there
>>96184603>The gambit specifically improves Critical Hit if the model/weapon already has it, but none of the legion's characters or equipment have Critical Hit. Just the generic Paragon Blade.Thats probably why that provision is there, actually makes paragon blades pretty scary. But yea, maybe in an earlier version of the rules terranic greatswords were S+2, Ap3, D1, Critical hit (6+), breaching(5+) or something? Its sorta how I imagined them before since they werent automatically instant death, but relied on their murderous blow (which is what critical hit is supposed to replace)
>There is actually an hilarious bit of negative synergy though. A Paladin of the Hekatonystika can use the DA gambit alongside Slayers of Kings to give his Terranic Greatsword Critical Hit (5+.) Which would be pretty cool if it didn't also set his Attacks to 0.Surely you can sorta "pick how to layer the rules"
You pick the gambit (-1 attack, down to 3) and then slayer of kings (reduced to 1)?
>>96184635Oh, wicked, thank you
>>96184534unimaginably based, i kneel
All the HH2 faqs, rules, and exemplary battles have been removed from GW's website.
However, I've found a pastebin with direct links to the PDFs and they still work:
>https://pastebin.com/b7tM2S3T
Hurry up and download them before they dissapear forever.
>>96184534Secutarii are GOOD, what the hell?
>>96184415Death Guard players win again.
>>96184654if you really wanted to help hh 2, you'd kill every single GW executive and force the remaining employees to backtrack and release a 2.5 instead
>>96184423as in, in a unit?
>>96184423Well what are the options?
>>96184666BASED, KILL EVERY 3.0 PLAYER YOU SEE
>>96184534Freeblades have a rule which let's them select prime advantages even when taken in a lord of war detachment in other armies it seems.
They also get an Armiger Talon aux detachment for free for bringing 1 freeblade knight.
The Armiger talon has no special restrictions on it, it just has 4 war machine slots.
Is there any rule preventing a freeblade Scion aspirant taken as a part of a astartes primary army from taking 8 leviathan dreadnoughts?
>>96184660Also is it just me or can a secutarii alpha have a mag shield, an arc lance, an arc maul, an arc pistol, AND a volkite serpenta? Am I making Neo the Alpha?
WHy are there gacha and anime fags in this thread. Post manly shit ffs. We are the good game.
>>96184614Yeah, but trading an attack for Critical Hit (6+) isn't a great tradeoff. Since they're trying to push challenges so hard this edition I would have expected Lion or Corswain (or their weapons) to have an innate critical chance to incentivize using the gambit with them.
>>96184637>Surely you can sorta "pick how to layer the rules"Nope. Slayer of Kings effects the models attack characteristic, and Blade of the Order effects the weapons attack modifier.
Agreed on your earlier point though.
>>96184612not for mech
thallax are now 20ppm and the min unit size is 6
vorax are 90p for two, as opposed to 65 for one
vultarax are 100p
mech is becoming a horde army, funnily enough
>>96184703does the auxiliary detachment linked to a prime advantage not have to share the same faction?
>>96184518Sure, which is why I initially added the caveat of "Technically still supported"
But to be honest, do ANY of these games have absolutely no weird rules that need houseruling?
>>96184570True. But now the target worthy of using a WS5 unit on is another WS5 unit. And all of them are 2W.
Sorry for being a Tunnel Vision Man, but if you got a better criterion, I'm all ears
>>96184703>Is there any rule preventing absolute unintended cheeseYes, a high velocity sandal.
>>96184612No really, if anything they've only gone down
>>96184705I'm sure GW will faq that, not because it's intentional but because it sounds fun to model him that way.
>>96184732>But now the target worthy of using a WS5 unit on is another WS5 unitWhy? There are targets for melee units other than "other melee elite units", "efficiently killing large numbers of models on an objective" is very much a useful niche to have.
RIP my beautiful volcano cannon. Man they've basically done a number on all the titan templates like generic units got hit with from 1.0 to 2.0
>>96184611What does veterancy actually give?
>want to take myrmidax apex detachment
>but the myrmidax trait sucks balls on an archmagos
>well i'll stick him at the back in a unit of bots to shoot shit
>bots are cybernetica so he gets stat penalties
>well i'll attach him to some myrmidons and roll around in a triaros
>but I want the macrotek apex detachment for the better triaros
>and the myrmidax trait adds +3 to his bulky
for fucks sake
>>96183938 (OP)Very out. I just popped in to watch any fires.
>>96184723I believe it shares the limitations of the detachment it branches off of meaning a primary army of knights couldn't do this.
The lord of war detachment allied freeblades occupy can be filled with units of any faction however, so I think it is possible.
So long as a knight and 8 leviathans are still less than 25% of your army list, lol. It only practically works for gigantic games.
>>96184746Good luck trying to convince anyone in here that there are other things your terminators can do then try beat other terminators with hammers.
Been trying to explain it since 1.0 to no avail.
>>96184794Contekar are bad because they dont fight terminators well!
No but seriously, their lore/unit fantasy and their gameplay are at utter odds
>>96184746Huh, it might be. Thanks anon.
Vanguard and Support Unit seem to be bringing about a new form of play. I know 30k players are cool and will still bring tons of tacticals because it's kino, but it seems a fully Vanguard army that cares only about killing the enemy and not about squatting on objectives is a very real possibility now
Are the super heavies still shit? My books haven't arrived
>>96184534>https://imgur.com/a/9YS0YJGWhy do GW hate plasma so much ?
>>96184703>Is there any rule preventing a freeblade Scion aspirant taken as a part of a astartes primary army from taking 8 leviathan dreadnoughts?Yeah, have you tried reading the fucking rules, retard?
>>96184660I'm not seeing it
the hoplite option has a good weapon but you're paying 1.6x the cost of a tactical squad to get them
AND they're still plenty squishy
>>96184807The way I see it theres three real main types of melee units:
Superheavies (your cenobium/cata command squads and primarch deathstars), theyre the best of the best and beat everything, but are usually very expensive and slow
Generalists (units which are still high damage but cant necessarily survive protracted combat with other elites), theyre there to be able to put up a fight and threated shit but dont want to scrap with the big boys as their primary role in life
Bullies (units which just want to effectively beat up on lower tier units, generally cheap and with more emphasis on their speed and effectiveness rather than overall power)
If your target is a tactical squad on an objective or some despoilers or whatever, then thunder hammer cata terminators are going to be worse than lightning claws tartaros terminators.
>>96184823it's S9 ap2 D7 5" blast. It needed a downside
At least it's not Overload...
Knight melee weapons should be short range shooting attacks like titans. A marine shouldn't party or do a backflip over a reaper chainsaw the length of a rhino.
>>96184849It's also nearly 6000 points bro.
No matter how strong, a pizza is a pizza, won't do much.
>>96184853But a primarch absolutely can.
>>96184835They were already more expensive than tacticals, but now they can actually fight one.
>>96184534Titans seem surprisingly fun and balanced, in both senses. Theyre not deleting entire quadrans of the map and theyre also not something that just keels over and dies from one bad round of shooting. Look to be actual boss-fights. Blood angel power fist veterans might beat up on them kinda hard though.
>>96184801Unironically the best terminators out there might be Atramentar (I+1 Cataphractii Command) because of how good they are at killing other terminators specifically.
It's not that nothing else matters. But everything else can be handled by other units
>>96184864>It's also nearly 6000 points bro.S9 ap2 D7 5" blast is the warhound gun isn't it?
>>96184864Anon that plasma cannon goes on the 750pts warhound.
>>Do knights usually attack regular infantry with their colossal blades? I thought they merely stomped on them, and reserved their knightly blades for walkers, vehicles and fellow superheavies
Imagine I posted a pic of a Cerastus bopping a Thanatar in the face with a giant spear
>>96184872last edition, I paid the ~200 points for hammershot peltasts and those deleted tacticals off objectives without having to get into combat
now you're having to buy a triaros for those hoplites just to be able to contest an objective on t1 plus you aren't getting the line bonus that the tacs would've had
take em if you want to but I don't think they're particularly good
>>96184611I only see Veteran Assault and Veteran Tacs in the mega...
Knights look pretty neat. There's lots of character in the list building and freeblades are cool even as just an allied Lord of War.
>>96184905Veteran HSS are coming in the pdf, apparently
12
md5: 817bb50d85f5a55c311d6237238d2bb7
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>>96184885>>96184883>>96184849OK let me rephrase :
Why does GW hate Plasma so much ?
>>96184944Its damage 9 anon the fuck do you want. It will oneshot a primarch.
>>96184944Not just plasma. All the titan weapons got nerfed by 1 template size and AP it seems.
>>96184956They did, not many of the big blasts around any more. The flipside is that titans are like an order of magnitude harder to kill, between regenerating void shields, reduction in penetration power and their new damage mechanic.
>>96184944I half feared even titan plasma would be AP4 lmao
>>96184929If everyone's getting veteran heavy support squads, then Iron Havocs and Sunkillers will need to pull so really crazy stunt to stand out
>>96184956Macro gatling blaster was AP 3 in the last edition. It's AP 2 now.
>>96184980We have literally no idea what HSS will be. Its possible, like veteran breachers might end up being, theyre just normal HSS with a somehow expanded weapons roster. Maybe they get the big grav guns from 40k. Who the fuck knows.
>>96184980Or you know, maybe they just shouldn't exist anymore, if there's already a unit that is the exact same. Maybe havocs can stay separate because I think they had precision shots or tank hunters or something? But I'm pretty sure sunkillers were literally just BS5 havocs.
>>96184997>But I'm pretty sure sunkillers were literally just BS5 havocs.Sunkillers were iirc fearless and could ignore mitigation saves.
>>96184951Also, every single weapon on that thing can kill a Primarch, retard. That's not some incredible feat.
Except only one makes you unable to shoot the rest of the weapons you paid for.
Spending 6K for a singular pizza kill 400points is the worst trade possible.
>>96184929>Veteran HSSHow good would those be if they turn out to have access to the big disintegrators?
>>96184980The legacies pdf writer is still frantically working on it as we speak. Even he doesn't know
>>96185018>2 Shot S6 Ap2 D2 OverloadThey'd kill themselves really quickly
>>96184991>>96184997>>96185021Wait a minute. There are some special Breacher squads out there, and they are W1.
If Veteran Breachers are 2W like veterans, that would completely fuck Immortals and Warders! D:
>>96185013>Also, every single weapon on that thing can kill a PrimarchYea man, that infernus cannon with its AP3 damage 3 will defo do that. Maybe the vulcan mega blaster? Being able to vaporize tanks, horus and basically everything else short of a heavy tank on a 7" blast is very good.
>>96185033Veteran breachers are likely just volkite, grav, and melta options. The weird one is veteran HSS, because HSS didn't lose any options
I'm willing to give it a go, but why in the living fuck would GW use almost indistinguishable icons for already convoluted army building? What's wrong with "Cross, Skull, Arrow, Chevron, Explosion"? There is no text either, just those stupid icons you need to decipher.
>>96185037The plasma weapons are your generalists, theyre not as efficient for clearing the rabble as the dedicated AOE weapons, theyre not as efficient at killing titans and superheavies as your dedicated weapons for that. But they can do both roles to some extent and unlike the specialists are capable of the other one too. Thats their niche.
Do Vexillas look as essential this edition?
>>96185047Glad I'm not the only one having issues with the clarity of unit symbology.
>>96184423Unless he's a Vigilator (or a virgin Master of Signals), a Centurion MUST melee
>>96185042Maybe the other guy is right and they get the heavy disintigrators?
>>96184684Maybe a stolen legion's elite or retinue
>>96185066Then I guess you have your answer.
>>96185042Ouch rip regular breachers then
>>96185058Shame that disintegrators are crap. Even more of a shame as I dig their looks and lore.
BTW does anyone know how long Wayland's doing the 35% off?
Jack off before posting. As in, before every post. Drink plenty of water.
>>96185037We're talking about the 6K points killing machine titan anon, READ THE ROOM.
I know you're cosplaying being THAT autistic.
EVERY SINGLE WEAPON on that WARLORD kill a primarch.
>>96185073Rate my new weapon idea;
Gatling disingrator: Range:24 Fp:8, S:4: AP:3: D:2 Overload(2)
>>96185076You actually managed to make it even more confusing
Congrats
>>96185047to give the illusion of change and innovation
>>96185052Aux Vexila absolutely do because they work differently.
>>96185088You get to shoot that unit once and then it kills itself, you average 3 overloads per salvo per gun.
>>96185098Oh, I should have specified for Marines, my bad.
SOVL
md5: aba44fd0dabaebd598769d3e346c6422
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>>96185052Less so. Only useful on units that you want to end up in close combat.
I'll still be putting vexilla on every unit however, just because flags are cool.
>>96185102Anon thats the joke, I wanted a unit that would more than 100% kill itself
>>96185076>>96185047Elites and Recons are very hard to spot the difference on at a glance. And the transport flavours are only obvious when they're next to each other. Those are the only REALLY bad ones. Recons should have been kneeling and aiming, and to be honest I don't understand why the Elites have to look like Assault Troops, was that really the only option?
>>96185103Its all good. The Space marine Vex can be pretty funny on word bearer units but otherwise I wouldn't bother.
Gatling disintigrator round 2: This time its an auxilia weapon
Aresthes pattern Volkite Macro-flayer:
Range 18: Fp:6, S:5, Ap:4, Ordnance(FP), Deflagrate, Overload(2)
>>96185049I do feel the Warhound's Plasma is a big downgrade. 2.0 it drops a 7" pie plate. Now, it shoots a 3" blast or 5" when in POWER CONSUMPTION mode.
Which doesn't feel as all-arounder as it would with Turbo Laser Destructor dropping a 3", 6-damage blast.
The Plasma should be a 5" in power saver mode and 7" in FEED ME SEYMOUR mode.
At the very least, they didn't put a chance for the plasma to overheat and damage the titans.
>>96184534Rapid fire battle cannon is better than it was last edition, but holy fuck lightning lock moiraxes are disgustingly efficient.
>>96185146Rapid fire battle cannon on the knight prime that lets you move half speed and still get the bonuses seems good.
But yeah cowboy moriax is better
>>96185092I was trying to cause you psychic damage. Rampagers should be represented by the silhouette of a Deathshroud. Deathshroud themselves should be represented by a legion standard they can't actually get. Seekers should get a veteran with a power sword.
A land raider explorator is a recon marine. A Dreadclaw is a land raider heavy transport
>>96185129>Ordinance FP>On an 18" range gun carried by T3 W1 mooks.Thats how you know its an Auxilia weapon lmao.
That said please change those range characteristics to a multiple of five before the Veletarii kick your door in.
>>96185179You arent seeing the vision anon. You have a squad of 10 of these lying in wait, the enemy foolishly approaches, you roll 120 dice and only kill your squad 4x over (before deflagrate kicks in, so 6x over really). Also probably the enemy.
>>96184823Morbius scarred them for life in the 90's cartoon.
>>96185144I think it got whacked since blast weapons don't care as much about the warhound being bs3 as much.
>>96184794I think the issue is to some extent that a lot of anti teq termies are also good at killing non teqs for not that much more in points.
>>96184226Truth
The only thing that kept Mordheim and WFB good was GW abandoning them
And WFB became shit again once it was rebooted
Them killing heresy would have been better because we could do our own thing and gatekeep the casuals
>>96184296>>96184274How does it feel to know it's just your legs that sucks?
You can charge out of all vehicles now, Assault Vehicle makes them not Disordered.
Wondering if I should change some of my Tactical squads to despoilers now...
>>96184534Do Lord of War detachment knights get vows? If so, this seems crazy.
>>96184415Oh noooooo GW is going to send me a brand new box how terrible
>>96185268you have to have a knight primary detachment to get vows
>>96185112I'm just against marine silhouettes when agnostic symbols already existed :(
>>96185246They look good. The fact that they are Lin (2) is a bit weird but it means if you kick out a unit controlling an objective you can score pretty big
>>96185289Thank goodness.
Your wife's boyfriend already bought you the Basedturdine box, right anon?
>>96185334Funnily enough, one of the wives of a player in my D&D group suggested the group buy it for me to pay me back for all the sessions I've run.
>>96185343>sessionsOh I see how it is.
So what's the consensus on the SatTermis? They seem all over the place levels of akward to use:
5" move, must stay stationary to fire both guns if paired. 24" range.
If pairing disintegrators it looks like you can expect an 80pt termi to die per turn.
>>96185351Saturnine are all awful. Overcosted and undergunned.
>James pushing lame idea that titans wouldn't or couldn't target non-titan, knight, or superheavy units
>got rid of the cool rule that let them target areas of the battlefield instead of units
>has a fluff snippet of a titan that got a reputation for destruction of infastructure rather than titans
Man what the fuck is wrong with them
>>96185289Or be a knight mendicant.
>>96185351Non TS Saturnine are junk. Plasma and shredder are the best loadout. We'll see what command squads and centurions do.
Iron Warriors friends, how are we feeling about Tyrants?
>>96185351I'm gonna put a full unit of 6 with dual plasma bombards right on the deployment line near two objective markers. Don't need LOS so no need to move, and even without AP those 12 small blasts wounding on 2+ are gonna hurt.
>>96185386Think we'll ever get new weapons for them? Some shrt barrelled lascannon or volkite cannon?
>>96184451I'm sure GW can handle replacements. There's plenty of spare boxes.
>>96185386>We'll see what command squads and centurions do.they are just a normal WS5 command squad with melee Saturnine weapon options.
>>96185392Maybe some smaller variants of those other weapons the saturnine dreadnought can have.
>>96185372>>96185386Which is a shame because I'm one of those freaks that likes the big shoulderpad look. Beforehand, saturnine was my least liked armor concept, but the execution for me is right up there with cataphractii as my fav. I especially like the new cylindrical plasma look like you find on the Thanatar.
>>96185420Some people really walk around thinking shit like this? Wild.
>>96185388They are pretty expensive for what is basically a cataphractii with a las cannon/missile launcher hiybrid
But desu las canons have gotten fucking expensive
I wish they had Ap2 tho
>>96184737>they want us to buy even more modelsFUCK.
>>96185433Better to be an aesthetic player than being the WAAC cunt that brought lascannon HSSs in 2.0. Also better than being into feet. For me, the big shoulderpad aspect and guns mounted low on the arms is like peak Imperial walker design. It's why I hate the Acastus compared to the Asterius, and also why I find the Cerastus knights are in the uncanny valley for me. With the weirdly thin legs for their height, and no armor on the thighs apart from the Atrapos, they just look...wrong. Love the ammo feeds on the acheron and castigator though, but I can scratch those itches with Thanatars that also have the big shoulder pad look.
>>96184716>mech are becoming a horde armyAgain? LOL thats hilarious.
>>96185433Different anon here, but I like them. Not for what they are but for what I think they can be.
They're my blue haired overly pierced cokehead girl. I can fix them.
>>96185465I want to make the disruption fist into a chainfist or have a big axe blade mounted on it.
>>96185452Gotta buy em all, anon. They had to reduce points costs, how else would they get to you buy all the consuls they've released and saturnine terminators and dreadnoughts?
>>96184323Man it must suck to live in a hypercommercialised shithole where your only option for hobbying is spreading your cheeks for some tinpot a-hole who himself is just a cocksleeve for his distributors.
>>96185474Same. I was considering using armiger or Titanicus Reaver melee weapons.
>>96185420>I'm one of those freaks that likes the big shoulderpadI don't have a problem with the size of the pads. I have a problem with the shoulderpads being completely above the arms, making them not shoulderpads but rather some weird head ornamentation
>>96183938 (OP)So has anyone here had their boxes contents damaged? Mine is due for tomorrow but Iโm worried the shit might be ruined inside
>>96185478Joke's on them. I was going to buy those dreadnoughts anyway. They're shit, but they're dreadnoughts, and I'm too old to start rethinking my fetish now.
>>96184045People are just happy to see DA eat dirt this edition because they didn't figure out that leaving a rhino in their deployment zone could grant them d3 VP when facing eskaton last edition.
DA are bad this edition and a few extra prime advantages won't change this.
>>96185440Yeah I'm trying to decide if I cut 5 of mine to add in some Breachers and Despoilers.
>>96185490Not here, also no reports from the other local people who got the box.
>GW raises points
>I CAN'T USE ALL MY UNITS ANYMORE! WHAT FUCKING ASSHOLES!
>GW lowers points
>THEY WANT US TO HAVE TO SPEND MORE MONEY ON MODELS! WHAT FUCKING ASSHOLES!
>GW does nothing
>WHERE ARE MY BALANCE CHANGES YOU FUCKING ASSHOLES????
Big and blue coming through
>>96185375>Animation where a warlord uses its gatling to mow down a line of SoHMan what the fuck
>>96185527Unironically yes
>>96183938 (OP)I CANT DECIDE
DEATH GUARD OR IMPERIAL FISTS? Inb4
>bothHelp me anons, gun to your head who are you choosing and why?
>>96185388Tyrants shouldn't be worse than tarantulas but here we are
>>96185392Probably. Magnetization being a design point and all.
>>96185408And hammers/axes. Potentially double fist that might grant +1A.
>>96185388I really dislike it when people say they are like Lascannons when IW krak missiles used to be S9 last edition. And now they have half of what they used to have, for the same point. And they also lost pinning on their frag.
Can't blame them for losing flakk though but still, they were merely okay in 2.0 and now they are half to 2/3rds that, depending on your metric.
>>96185555Do you like painting yellow or do you like painting rust?
>>96185555IF with so much weathering they might as well be DG
>>96185555Checked. Anon, look at the Death Guard's aux detachment. Then look at the Imperial Fist's. It is pretty much the same thing lmao
>>96185580Then Imperial Fists, because you can do yellow AND rust if they're dirty boys too busy entrenching to repair their armor.
>>96185540Even sadder seeing the Warlord belicosa removing a grid square in the 2.0 animation, and now it's not even effectively any different than any other volcano cannon. Like, really? 3" blast?
I can't believe this is the edition where they'll finally release the Emperor of Mankind's mini
>>96185572Yeah, they're really not looking attractive as a full 10 man this edition.
Wowee, 40 shots at AP6, Breaching 6+? Thanks, James!
>>96185601How the fuck do you even balance him when he forced the entirety of the WB legion to kneel?
>>96185697Make him like Exodia, you have to assemble him over 4 turns and if you do, you win.
not feeling too well, got back from job, getting hit by the terrible reality of how much i spent at the lgs these 5 last years
>>96185697to be fair a blind chick got the entire WB legion to kneel, it's what they do
>>96185590or the DG armor has leaks in the crotch area
>>96185741wait did she even get her salad tossed or what
>>96185388The only way they are bringing their points back is by killing vehicles (5+ to pen 14AV) or 3+ mechanicum units like thalaxes, myrmidons, and ursarax (armiger is in 3+ too); some expensive Custodes units also have 2W in 3+, kitted-out assault veterans and expensive legion units in 3+ (like raptors)
>a lot of ap6 rocketsWith 3a from rockets and 4a from combi bolters, their volume of fire is enough to kill ~4 1w marines in 24' or, like, a lot of tech thralls in 48'.
BY THE WAY in 3.0
They can now exchange their combi bolters for combi weapons for free! - So take your pick: Apply statuses with flamer and grav gun (both limited) (helps with everyone else attacking at i1 like their power fists), kill terminators and custodes with melta (limited), and blast veterans with disintegrator (limited).
Also, they are still terminators in 4++ with power fists; not many units would want to deal with them in melee.
>can make an archmagos on abeyant bulky 10
this bastard is FAT
does bulky still count as multiple models for certain rules like in 2nd?
>>96185697well, he isn't balanced because he can snuff out even a primarch like Horus with all Chaos buffs. But he could be mission scripted, meaning he isn't controlled by the players. Instead one player tries to aid the mission and the other one tries to interfere with the mission.
>>96184534>https://imgur.com/a/UU60bLVDamn, questoris get all the dual weapon options. That's tempting
>>96185764nah the legions were gay dude, she just took confession.
>>96185766The Swarmers have Heavy (FP) so they're least shooting 4 each if you didn't move.
I think once you get them into 24 inches and park them there, they become a decently intimidating gun battery.
>>96185697Take ascended horus and remove the "can join malefic units" rule.
>>96185572>when IW krak missiles used to be S9 last editionAnd their lascannons were S10, and had sunder, and vehicles were just trivial to kill all round.
Its all well and good to talk about what things were last edition, but thats not relevant to the "here and now". Vehicles are now harder to kill and a unit that can pull double duty in terms of killing vehicles has points in its favor for being able to do that.
>>96185798He loses to all chaos buff Horus unless he takes the black pill and becomes a chaos god himself.
In a fair fight at least. Fortunately the Emperors not stupid and Horus is so the Emperor didn't fight fair.
>>96185798>well, he isn't balanced because he can snuff out even a primarch like Horus with all Chaos buffsAnon he lost that fight. He got beaten by chaos horus, and had to have him give up his chaos powers (and then not get them back in one last act of lucidity) to kill him.
Could he have won the hard way? Yea, maybe, the dark king or whatever might have been stronger than big horus. But as is, per the latest BL garbage, the emperor was bested in a straight up fight and only survived (to the extent he did) through subterfuge and a last second come to jesus moment from horus.
>>96185812Why is ADB so obsessed with morally gay chaos space marines with stolen imperial weapons and waifus?
>>96185928I hope you arent considering the night lords from the night lords omnibus as "morally grey"
>>96185928Abnett did it first and did sell very well, so copying it must have made sense.
To be fair, the weapons end up being useless and the waifus met a bad ending one way or another. He also seems to have avoided doing it in his later books.
>>96185966Nonono he said morally gay not grey.
>>96185966I said morally gay. His chaos characters aren't really evil, they're just rebelling against the true evil, the Imperium.
"Oh, Emperor, eh, very nice. Anโ howโd you get that, eh? By exploitinโ the workers โ by โanginโ on to outdated imperialist dogma which perpetuates the economic anโ social differences in our society! If thereโs ever going to be any progressโ"
>>96185807Firestorm double avenger actually cancerous
>>96185980I think ADB mostly ditched the waifus for woke and GeW censor purposes. Any of his earlier stuff like the Emperors Gift has big titty bimbos in the showers and getting fucked and now its just tomboys or matchgirls, all of whom are dykes.
>>96185988No anon, the night lords are dicks, the entire book series is about how theyre pathetic miserable dicks who sold their souls for nothing and betrayed every value they ever pretended to hold. Talos isnt good, hes not rebelling against the evils of the imperium, hes fighting out of loyalty to a father to hated him and pride in a legion that had none. His fellow night lords are just pathetic wanton murderers who hold no ideal higher than that of the common cutthroat. Thats the point.
The imperium plays essentially zero part in their story, its biggest involvement is what, that the navigators they kidnap octavia from arent very nice or something? Wow, what a condemnation of the system, truly the night lords were just misunderstood.
The night lords are evil murderous dicks in the omnibus, the book doesent pretend otherwise or try and show them as "actually they had a point and were right all along", no, theyre pathetic assholes and thats the point. Their actions werent justified and their existence was a sin, its not about how theyre missunderstood heroes and it doesent try to be, its about them trying to be a better sort of villain, rather than space gangbangers in power armor.
Do I make him a regal TS with cloth that leads some Sekhmet out of a land raider or a brutalist Terran XIXth with the leather straps and chains leading some breachers or destroyers out of a Storm Eagle?
>>96185600>Your volcano cannons get blast?Cries in neutron falchion
>>96184172>remove terminator power fists so people can't use their 40k terminators in 30kThat's some weapons grade corporate autism.
Scalpers are about to have a roungh time
>>96186088>Scalping a unlimited readily available productIt's just natural selection at this point.
>>96186035Terran Raven Guard 100% I'm going for a company of Terrans and their non-Deliverance recruits watched over by a core of Deliverance officers/retinue to keep them from going full Night Lords. Going to mix the more conventional heraldry (e.g., white shoulder pads for vets) with Terran aspects (e.g., trophies and sigils).
did BMM from china sneak all their recasts into US to avoid the huge tariffs? Saw a new store in brooklyn on ebay with no real feedback trying to sell like 80 recasts of the primarchs, I was like "a brooklyn recaster? no chance" and the seller deal message came in "Zhรจ shรฌ nรญn yว chฤo zhรญ jiร gรฉ huรฒdรฉ cว wรนpวn de jฤซhuรฌ"
It's gotta be the BMM recaster shop, right?
Or are there multiple zipper recasters?
>>96186094I KNOW WHAT I GOT NO LOWBALLERS
I HAD IT GRADED 9.5 BY BECKETT
>>96186035Nice MK2 destroyers you got going on back there.
>>96186099China is full of recasters
Factory workers in the mold business come in after hours to do it
>>96185766If says they can swap their combi bolter for one of the options in the combi list. I'm not sure that means for free, anon. It it was, it would say so :(
Like how it is for the Grave Wardens Chem Master's gun, which can indeed be swapped for a combi for free, specifically
I'm not really a fan of every unit having free access to every transport. It felt way more thematic that squads had their own dedicated transports, like tacticals go in rhinos, terminators in land raiders or seekers getting a drop pod.
>>96186031And then they all get fucking murdered by Jain Zar at the end of the book, but yeah the imperium are totally the real baddies guys.
>>96186040Well I did find it odd that the Falchion always had neutron modelled. I will miss those glorious Destroyer anti-everything 5" pieplates. Feels like the Fellblade is the best option these days.
I'm quite liking the line/vanguard scoring system. I'm surprised they never did something similar before.
>>96185856They do like 2HP and half a status effect on an Av13 hull. Don't sell me half of what I already had and call it an improvement, you're not an iPhone.
>>96186141Yup, randomly eldar attack and kill all of them. The end.
The night lords series is well written and it has compelling and even likable characters, but that isnt the same as "theyre actually morally grey or not really evil", they are, thats not even in question really. Its a character study questioning whether there is anything redeeming at the heart of it all, any sort of spine or something theyre willing to die for, with the "hopeful" answer of "there could be" as they (the ones who live that far) die to protect the future of the legion/their servants as they get butchered by xenos.
Jain Zar drying to some budget alahu ackbar shit was dumb though
>>96186132You could always take a land raider squadron and put your tactical squads in that.
Terminators still aren't allowed in Rhinos.
Drop pods were weirdly restrictive, considering that it is one of the oldest most iconic methods of deployment that marines are famous for.
If you don't like it, just don't do it.
>>96186132Did you even look at the fucking book?
>>96186151Ehhh I'm a bit skeptical because of just repositioning off when vanguard gets near and then they get 0-1 pts.
>>96186164>You could always take a land raider squadronBut it would have costed a slot which heavily disincentivized it. Now there's no difference.
>>96186161They cant do status effects, they have armorbane.
>an improvementAnon the question of "what they had before" doesent matter when the entire game changed in terms of "what that means". Vehicles are now more durable and harder to kill, anti-tank weaponry is less reliably and fewer in number. Having lascannons strapped to the back of your terminator is a good thing.
Would 2.0 terminators have been better if you stole their weapons? Sure, but you cant do that. The question isnt "how would their last edition rules do now", its "how do their current rules do now".
>>96186151The 3.0 core rules are better than 2.0, its got problems but theyre not deal breakers. its the Libers were things come undone.
Not even all the Libers honestly, specifically the 2 big ones most of the playerbase uses. Mechanicum, Auxilia and Questoris made out like bandits comparatively.
>>96186171Reactions are quite limited so you're trading off denying vamguard for another reaction.
>>96186171>Have a unit with Line of your own follow behind the unit with Vanguard>Enemy unit concedes the objective marker when your vanguard get close>Put your own unit with Line on the objective>Enemy unit now has to deal with your vanguard unit and line unit in order to reclaim the objective>Shoot the enemy Line unit with something anyway and most likely kill them>Camp the point for the remainder of the battleThey're free to run off the point. Saves me the trouble of having to beat them up.
>>96186167Yes? There's no transports as a unit upgrade. Sometimes they come in the same detachment so they are "free slots" like before but in many other units they don't.
>>96186178>in 3.0, it is the marines that are the NPC factions
>>96185530Are those fucking print lines or just fingerprints?
>>96185731That is ok, a dollar to support your local gaming store is always well spent. Unless you are about to be homeless, than sucks to be you.
>>96186031Lord of the Red Sands does pain Angron as fighting against the Emperor, not so much as being for Horus. But I liked that better than the usual HRGGG IM JUST ANGRY AND MY NAME IS ANGRY RON. Idk felt nice
>>96186208Print lines from my printer
>>96186151I hate it. Baking that much of scoring into units directly pidgeonholes them and massively limits how interesting missions can be.
>>96186200The thing is marines arent weak now or whatever, they just lost options people are attached to. The other armies might be closer to their level (or even advantaged now in the case of admech(MAYBE)) but marines are absolutely a strong army, bullshit even if you abuse thousand sons.
Theyre well rounded, use the new mechanics and scoring well and have the most flexible lists, they just lack flavor options in some cases while the other factions get the zanier rules.
>>96186208it was definitively printed
>>96186163I don't mind how it ends purely because of how hard she blends the rest of the warband before it ends.
Jain Zar is basically a horror movie serial killer for most of the final act. Her getting killed at the end wasn't unexpected.
wrong
md5: 68ebf6ee817730623c321dacc10fc55d
๐
>>96186178>The 3.0 core rules are better than 2.0
>>96186214when it's 22000 eurobucks it really stard to add up
>>96186220How? They just reinforce what thise units were gonna do anyways. Line stays at objectives as always and vanguard is on units that you would use to kill stuff.
Should Argel Tal go inside a true believers Malefic Assault squad of troops for the 12" jetpacks or do we still slap him in the Gal Vorbak where he can facetank any AP3 shots at the unit with his artificer armor?
>>96186191Okay so can you tell me what's the first special rule in the rhino profile?
>>96186231It wasnt, but it should have been something more. I dont mind talos exploding himself to get her, it fits well within the wider context of his character and what the book is trying to do with the night lords. But it being his backpack + some grenades was dumb. Idk, have him overload a reactor or something.
>>96186159Because I read I tell you that, unless it says it is free, it's not.
That is, unless the day 1 errata in warcom says it is free? I haven't got that one on my phone
>>96186238Id put him with the other gal vorbak because he looks cooler there. Although a malefic veteran squad could be cool as hell too.
>>96186238Stick him in a jump command squad like last edition
Because taking the gal Vorbak character with gal Vorbak nerfs him
>>96186236For one, there's no such thing as an objective that gives X points anymore. Now an objective's points have to account for Line, so where previous editions could have "Small objective is 2 points, big objective is 4", now you've got units fucking that all up. Vanguard now means you have to worry about killing enemies with the right unit, and not just about killing them for the sake of killing. Now having your Cataphractii run an enemy off a point is much better than having your command squad do it, for no fucking reason.
>>96186246visually he looked cool with the vorbak but seems weird footslogging with his big wings (though that's now basically a tradition considering the GW Possessed Marines kit had winged guys without Flying rule)
The Raptors/Warp Talons kit are just basically True Believer daemon-possessed assault marines, so his wings might fit in with them more. It's unfortunate the loadout has so little allowed to use dual lightning claws, I think they look better.
>>96186097Based. I think I will.
>>96186120Hell yeah.
>>96186271Twin LC veterans with tyranid gargoyle wings?
WHAT DO I DO WITH MY FUCKING JETBIKES NOW THAT SCARS ARE DED AND BURIED JAMES? FUCKING TELL ME COCKSUCKER
>>96186278Buy 4 land Raider explorators as jagathai Khan intended
Cavalry only scores for solar aux now
Sucks to suck, legionfag
>>96186278Scars seem fine?
>>96186235That is 366 eur per month for the past 5 years; it is not nothing but I assume that you have an ok job to maintain this level of purchases.
No good reason why you canโt deep strike all drop pods or termites at once. This is such bullshit. Literally give me one good reason.
>>96186277I guess I can run an apex detachment combat retinue to get a prime slot for Malefic Praetorian Command Squad with Jump Packs, 2+ armor saves and any number can have twin claws.
>>96186301If they scatter, yes. Perfect placement is stupid. Otherwise agree. They literally decided to not even try and make it too conservative.
>>96186291yeah lemme put an apothecary or a stormseer on a bike real quick, oh wait
>>96186306Was deepstriking pods or termites that oppressive? Are you serious?
>>96186306He asked for a good reason.
>>96186311That also works, although veterans do have that sweet sweet vanguard (and twin claws).
>>96186301Same reason you can only use three drop pods but they sell them in packs of 2
Because they didn't. Think. About. It.
>>96186287>Cavalry only scores for solar aux nowThis is still funny to me, its even lore accurate as far as the Scars themselves are concerned. Their bikes have NEVER been used to hold territory, just to take it.
>>96186314Wait till the legacies drop if youre that pressed by that. But their rules, jetbike characters or no, seem fine. Golden keshig are great, ebon keshig are solid, their special weapon is okay and their legion trait is quite useful with how fast paced the game is and how much of a premium there is on mobility.
Bikes are also great now.
>>96186325In that case they should have Vanguard
>>96183938 (OP)>tqYes I actually enjoy some semblance of internal balance where half my liber and legacies pdf is usable for once. It sure is great to know that Iโm gonna see more than the same 5 units for once
>>96186270You can still have objectives with different scores though.
>>96184032Anon are you retarded. That had the chaos star and a demon hand. How is that fucking great crusade
>>96186312The current cluster drop pod deepstrike was perfect.
>>96186331Bikes do have vanguard
>>96186301Dropping multiple pods full of tacticals on every objective, then dropping melta TSS directly behind all your opponents most important vehicles sucks ass to play against.
They should have let drop pods/termites get extra deepstrike over the usual once per turn limit but they shouldn't be able to deploy literally everything guaranteed on the first round. thats boring to fight.
>>96186331They have vanguard
>>96184415My goodness, a single piece has scratches that gw will send another copy of out immediately to remedy the situation. James must surely kill himself for this injustice
>>96186337> the game has been out for a whole day without breaking> clearly the balance issues of the past are no more
>>96186301>Literally give me one good reason.7th edition formation that let you drop devastators on drop pods that could come out and shoot at full BS
It was cancer then and it would be cancer now since everyone gets to do that
>>96184013Well, their special saturnines are also shown in the grey color scheme. It also just looks good as a contrast.
>>96186359>>96186368Bikes that suck in melee have it
Bikes that are good in melee (ie golden Keshig) don't
>>96184439Yeah thatโs a lie. My local gw store runs active tournaments and itโs hard to actually get space a for a game with how crowded that are. Are you perhaps, a no gamer???
>>96186387>Bikes that suck in melee have itYou dont need to be good in melee to blast tacticals off objectives.
>>96186386Sorry that was for /wfg/.
Ignore my idiocy.
>>96186278Download Legacies
Buy Slopticae
>>96186374It's easy to not break the game when no one plays it
Literally everyone who's not a shill is ignoring 3.0 and waiting for circle edition
>>96186386>>96186392LOOK AT THIS RETARD KWAB
>>96186391Vanguard triggers on fall back in melee, not shooting
>>96186218>>96186225>>96186208Ah k nvm I'm fucking blind. That's sculpt is a really close copy.
>>96186403It does trigger when you shoot a unit to death tho.
>>96186401I'm sorry, I browse both /hhg/ and /wfg/ at the same time.
>>96186403It does both.
You can either wipe out a unit on an objective out, or you can wipe out a unit on an objective in melee/make it flee.
Bikes have the firepower to blast tacticals off objectives, and they also have enough melee ability to mop up the 2/3 guys that remain if there are guys that remain.
>>96186088It's actually rare to find a box that hasn't been damaged. I'm seeing multiple stories of stuff seemingly dropped at some point, snapped parts, torn papers stuff like that. Apparently they just slammed the rulebook right on top of the sprues and then handled the boxes like a quarterback who ISN'T going to impress the scouts or make it to third base with the cheerleader that year.
I have 5 castra ferrums(so far). How fucked am I by the lack of talons?
>>96186420you can take that with 2 centurions
>>96186403Bikes have firestorm and volley fire counts towards combat resolution. You're not losing enough bikes to be in any danger of running
>>96186329>So, yeah, no, you can't convert up biker characters in the biker legion, but their numbers are sorta balanced.Jesus christ. Did we turn into 40k that quickly?
>>96186233The problem with 3.0 isn't really the rules. They aren't better, but they're worse in different ways.
The problems are how they WROTE those rules, and the severe enshittification of the Libers. Those are the real issues. It's basically 2020 edition Blood Bowl again, where they might have some good ideas, but the execution of those ideas is fucking shit. Plus some bad ideas literally anyone smarter than a tub of yoghurt could have spotted. Frankly, at this point, I'm kind of glad that Blood Bowl seems to have dropped off GW's radar, and god how I hope THAT lasts.
>>96186434If biker characters are also impossible in the legacy document then you can have my permission to panic.
>>96186346You can't have an objective worth double another objective though.
And if you do, and make one objective twice as hard to get, people will just sit on the easier objective and buff it up with Line.
Suddenly, a 2:1 points ratio has dropped to 3:2, maybe less.
>>96186362So once again, because shooting in deepstrikes is ass, melee in deepstrikes get gutted.
Excellent work.
You'll note that melta drop pods will be more of an issue now, not less.
>>96186443It's even shootier than before, deep strike got fuck, missions got fucked, wargear got fucked.
It's worse.
>>96186434Anon, thats entirely different to "WS are dead".
"WS are boring"? Sure, I can accept that (well, it appears bikes are coming back in a day or two via pdf but in the meanwhile), but "dead" - at least to me - implies unplayable, a non-faction due to how bad the rules are. And thats just not true.
>>96186131nah they cant take whatever
>>96186465It is worse. But I think what's mostly making it worse is things like wargear getting fucked and the godawful way they wrote the rules. The Deep Strike thing is a valid point though, but it's not like 2.0's way of doing that wasn't also retarded.
Like a lot of these changes, (and you see it especially hard with what's happened to Dreads) they've overcompensated in the other direction from a problem in 2.0.
Also, fuck this forced 3k point games thing they're trying to push here which they started with Ligma.
>>96186426Do I have enough for the rest of the army?
>>96186354Its worse than 3.0. Its win or lose on a d6.
>>96183938 (OP)Any imperial fist books youโd recommend? Iโm starting flight of the Eisenstein, is there any stand alone books about IF?
>>96186494You should probably take the Apex detachment with 2 HQs and take them there I think.
There usually other ways to take retinues or elites if you want those too
>>96186494I dunno, do you?
>>96186262At the listed cost bro
>>96186491Yeah he's daft
>>96186494>>96186426>>96186513Yeah, Officer Cadre gives you 5 aux slots, and you can use Prime Benefits to give you 2 more (you can't double take logistical in the same detachment right?) So, you get 5 of the cheapest Command units you can, +1 High Command, and a unit of Breachers or Despoilers or Tacticals, and then you still have 2 slots free for other detachments, and you have a Prime Benefit slot free you could... give a Herald Paragon of Battle or something.
Unless you wanted Vets or Seekers. Then you're fucked.
>>96185886I'd say big E held back
>>96186548Yeah, there were definitely some side factors from all the seeing-the-future-stuff. If Horus physical body just instantly gets vaporized like Magnus vs Vulkan, the 4 gods would have just brought him back in a new body like Lucius the Eternal 10,000 times. Horus probably had to willingly give up or get the fight dragged out to the point that he forsakes the gods before he could ever be defeated.
The Emps might've also forseen that the only way Chaos doesn't wipe Humanity to extinction is if he wins so barely that Abaddon arrives just in time to pick up his father's claw and become the new terrible useless champion of chaos before the 4 gods can pick someone who isn't a complete and utter fuckup elsewhere.
That's why it took Horus 7 years to come 99% to destroying the imperium but it took Abaddon 10,000 years to achieve absolutely nothing.
>>96186543>So, you get 5 of the cheapest Command units you canIf he takes the junior officer cadre he can take 2 centurions, one with a logistical benefit. That's already 5 dreadnoughts there. The rest of the army can be whatever
>>96186587The Emperor does have a soul and history erasing HADOUKEN! power. Horus even saw him use it on that one Ork Warlord, and a little bit of pee came out.
USbros, should I grab the box for $250 shipped or do you think it will drop more in the short term? I'm not waiting for Black Friday.
>>96186604wouldn't work on Horus, because he's written by nuBL, which means he has no SOVL at all
>>96186609it's gonna be <180, if you're a faggot with no impulse control stop asking us, you human waste-of-time
>>96186609I've never seen boxes drop for black friday. Also depends how much of the box you want/if you have the energy to deal with reselling the bits you don't.
>>96186623I literally my AOD box on black friday, $199/315, so about 40% off.
>>96186612That's.... a good point actually.
>>96185483Those would be way way too big.
Alright churchbros, did the Mhara Gal dread escape the suckening that hit the regular dreadnoughts? WS5 and 8" move, S10 Ap2 Dmg3 attacks.
>>96186632Fair. Based on my local store's numbers that does/been doing the 30-35% off, in the days since the price drop announcement, they've gone through about 40% of the listed stock too. Idk how much or how little the stores can manage warehousing the rest. If they can manage, I don't expect to see drops beyond the usual 20-22% on my end.
>>96186622Ok nogames
>>96186623I'll use everything eventually (might just keep the araknae in case there's some cool journalslop)
>>96186543>>96186598That's cool. Though how does the system scale for larger apocalypse games? Sounds like you'll probably run out of detachments before reaching 10k points unless you deliberately build a list for it. Than again I guess you can just ditch the FOC for apocalypse and just take everything.
>>96186653I don't think AoD was a flop like this launch. And horus heresy wasnt very popular so stores didnt make the mistake of ordering 20-30 boxes they had to fire-sale.
Saturnine at -35% before even releasing in UK.
US stores cannot warehouse 30 boxes for several years, rent and property taxes are way too high for stores here, they'll ditch them long before then.
I expect they're just waiting on GW to give permission that they can firesale them without getting blacklisted for selling more than 15% off.
GW gave permission to fire-sale Dominion after it flopped, so stores sold it much lower than the cap.
>>96186651Theyre worse, but theyre probably still rather solid. Their plasma gun hurts like a motherfucker now, S7 D2 breaching 4+ 5" blast with no overload (iirc)
>>96186676it's a small blast, not 5"
>>96186682Still, not the worst weapon. The mhara gal remains a solid choice for fighting other dreads and terminators.
>>96186672AoD had more mass appeal in what units it offered. I have no use for anything in the saturnine box except the saturnine terminators which I can just buy separately in a couple of months.
>>96186676>>96186691if they don't bunch up, probably averages about 0.7 terminators dead give or take... for 210 points.
Though I guess there are some situations making them spread out is useful.
So are the Saturnines actually viable? From all the batreps I've seen they either cook themselves with disintegrators or kill 3 tacticals pero turn with plasma. And god forbid they get charged
>>96186453No, because being able to deploy half your army exactly where you want them to be at the start of your first turn without needing to worry at all about your opponents first turn is inherently overpowered in any wargame with fixed deployment zones.
It really doesn't matter whether you're deploying melee or ranged units when you get to position them in the best possible position for them to be in and your opponents only counterplay is to have so many fucking models you physically cannot place anything dangerous near anything they care about.
Wait, so now that Dual wielding has been removed from game, a dreadnought having two claws is entirely without benefit.
>>96186710Theyre very situational. You cant just take them and do well with them. So "generally no, sometimes yes".
If your opponent is probably bringing a deathstar of elite infantry? Maybe. If your opponent is spamming basic troops? Also maybe. If you want to try a deep-strike deathstar with their flamers and a praetor? Just as part of a take all comers list? probably not.
>>96186710I think dual gun saturnines are a trap unless you really want plasma barrages in the mid field
The AP3 flamer is better than either arm gun, and you can volley fire with it for twice the shooting in one turn
Basic terminators in general are pretty lackluster in 3.0, but command squad terminators are good. Saturnine command squads will probably be decent takes.
>>96186712>being able to deploy half your army exactly where you want them to be at the start of your first turn without needing to worry at all about your opponents first turn is inherently overpowered in any wargame with fixed deployment zonesYup. Won so many games with my AL in the deployment phase because of Infiltrate. Lotta people don't understand how important deployment and positioning is.
>Infiltrate no longer after all deployment in 3.0NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
>>96186696yeah, more than half of the AOD sales in my area were Relic Terminators for Dark Angels 40k, space marine bodies you could use as legionaries in 40k CSM if you wanted, contemptor dreadnought for deathguard 40k.
New box has zero appeal for 40k use.
>>96186717Specific paired weapons are now their own profile. So a dreadnought doesent have two "fists", he has one "paired fist" which has +2A for example.
>>96186717some melee weapons have a "paired" profile with usually some extra attacks
>>96186717A dreadnought with paired gravis power fists gets +1 attack
>>96183938 (OP)How decent are Hersey 2.0 books fire lore and heraldry/hobby bits?
>*slaps your girls ass with his bulky 10*
what gambit you choosing in response?
>>96186737Mediocre. Nothing will beat the black books in that regard.
>>96186672Honestly, who the fuck thought putting a turret in a starter box was a good idea? That could have easily been literally anything better. Plastic Sabres, a new kit for outriders. A plastic Landspeeder. Literally ANYTHING would have been better than a new fucking turret.
>>96186737Siege of Cthonia is worth looking into just for the fluff.
>>96186710As it is, anything I'd want to disintegrator, the saturnine would be the worst choice for. Vets with 2x heavy disintegrators hit on 2+ and overload on 1 only removes 1 bolter from the squad. On turn 1 the saturnine will lose 1-2 members (1 from their own overload, possibly 2nd from enemy attention), while the 10man vet squad with 2 heavy disintegrator should lose less than 1 bolter from overload and is less tempting to enemy as they're 24" away and hitting them only removes bolters until the last 2 go down.
>>96186754Pull out my own and Mirror Gambit.
>>96186329> GK are great> EK are solid> bikes are greatimagine having a brain this smooth
>>96186768>and overload on 1 only removes 1 bolter from the squadOverload wounds have to be allocated to models that made attacks for that Fire group. Meaning only models that fired that specific type of disintegrator.
>>96183938 (OP)Bros has anyone had their Saturnine boxes damaged? R*ddit are seething at broken bits
>>96186604It wouldn't work on Horus because the big 4 had their hands up his ass and they explicitly exist beyond chronological time.
Horus was stronger thsn the Emperor because Chaos is stronger than the Emperor and Chaos is stronger than the Emperor because the Emperor explicitly cannot fight at full strength without becoming a chaos god but he fucking HATES the gods and would never do that.
Since he couldn't win he had to make sure everyone lost instead, so the Heresy ends with no one being happy.
Chaos got cucked out of a 5th member of the pantheon with both Horus and the Emperor refusing to ascend, Horus failed to prevent the future where the Emperor is a god and his name is forsaken and the Emperor failed to achieve his golden path.
>>96186759Why the fuck do WH30k boxes have zero terrain in them when they're meant for new starters?
Instead of the turret they should've given at least 1 new building and like 2-3 walls/obstacles and the box would not be selling so badly.
>>96186777Which of those do you think is wrong?
>>96186671You an probably fit way more point on this system than the old FOC
If you are playing 10k points you might as well 2 2 or 3 primaries. Even then if the normal primary can take 3k, you can take +50% of allies and +25% LoW
>>96186788Not me. What's the country most complaints originate from? Seems to be a US issue.
>>96186712>It really doesn't matter whether you're deploying melee or ranged unitsIt does if the ranged units can shoot immediately and the melee units have to take a round of shooting before they can melee.
>exactly where you want them to beThis is why we have scattering. In some cases, we should have had more.
>>96186782Damn. Missed that since they need 300 words per special rule. Still taking overload1 over overload2 but vets not an 100% auto-include then.
>>96186534Thanks for telling me exactly what I was saying
>>96186814britain probably squished 5000 boxes into a shipping container to get them over for 25 cents per box, but the weight damaged the bottom 2500 of the boxes.
People have posted plenty of pictures of all the raised details crushed flat.
>>96186756True. But also, do you really want to wait half a decade for your legion's rules and units again?
>>96186820Yeah disintegrator vets are very niche. I'm still building a squad just because they're cool. Also because they fuck thallax in particular, I have a grudge to settle
>>96186845>Also because they fuck thallax in particular,Do they? Because the T5 might fuck you.
If you want to kill thallax, take melta TSS.
>>96186820>Special rule is 300 words so it covers everything and you still misses how it worksAnon...
Ben at AO, I know you're here.
I'm going to fire all three of my vindicators at your damn Chieftains.
>>96186777Cavalry and anti-grav ignore all difficult terrain now, there's no exceptions anymore.
Bikes and jetbikes are looking fantastic for how cheap they ended up being.
>>96186845Thallax are gonna be carting around non-overloading AP3 plasma guns and they still have that invuln so good luck.
>>96186852>more words = more betterLook at this stupid fucking retard.
If you don't use 500 words for 30 words of content, people will read all 30 words and understand. People are not going to memorize all 500 words, at most they'll not read them or they'll skim them with eyes glazed over because GW are fucking morons.
>>96186851Melta TSS are more expensive and only 12" range. Phage is actually useful now too, that T5 can be lowered to something more manageable.
>>96186866>zoomie can't hold attention to read the entire paragraph before getting distractedAnon...
>>96186851melta TSS are not very good this edition. You try to get in range of the one thing the squad is good against and it'll react to your movement to step out of melta range of your melta squad which his army proceeds to kill next turn.
>>96186788Yes, power sword and and some rivets smushed. Meh I have a million swords.
>>96186872TSS can bail out of a full speed rhino and then move, with a 12" weapon they still have a nearly 30" threat range, and thallax can only reposition using their initiative so they're not going very far.
>>96186885>You try to get in range of the one thing the squad is good against and it'll react to your movement to step out of melta range of your melta squadReposition only moves you equal to your initiative value, thallax are going a grand total of 3" for a whole reaction point
>>96186851Melta is too short ranged, Thallax can just play around it.
You need a S7+ D2 weapon with a lot of shots or AP3 as well as long range.
>>96186885Vehicles cant react move since they have no initiative. And you can just stick them in a rhino for a 19" move, thats a 31" threat range on their S8 d3 guns.
>>96186646So are Saturnine terminators so it'll work out.
>>96186872>Melta TSS are more expensiveTheyre what, 23ppm each? Surely veterans with the disintigrators are a similar cost?
>>96186909I believe in you.
>>96186914One of the upsides to vets with disintegrators (besides BS5 and 2W) is they still have Line (1)
>>96186914>23ppm each?more like 35ppm
I think people like pertuarbo for the same reasons why people like dr doom
he's autistic and extremely petty
>>96186921nvm, I read HSS
>>9618691410 TSS are 80 + 150 for the guns, 230 total, 23 per model
>>96186921You're retarded
>>96186920true, theyre probably a better "bruiser" unit, but in terms of just raw "I want those fucks dead" melta TSS might be one of the best choices out there. Custodes, admech, demons (when they come out). You name it, they can kill it.
Stick them in a drop pod or termite and they make knights cry themselves to sleep.
>>96186921A TSS is 8pts base, a meltagun is 15pts. Are you confusing them with HSS?
>>96186929Ah gotcha, dw.
>>96186920Combi-melta vets are also an option.
If there's someone you want with a single shot weapon is the guys who hit on 2s
>>96186899provided it's planet bowling ball with zero enemy units and zero terrain. You've driven 19" into the enemy army if he allows you to by kindly opening a huge rhino-sized path through his whole army and you still lost a 260 point unit to Maybe take out one tank. The meltas usually fail if beyond the 6" melta special rule as they don't get armourbane or double damage unless within 6".
It gets even worse if vehicle just pops 5+++ FNP smokescreen and you've suddenly lost a 260 point unit without even killing one single tank.
TSS are much weaker in the actual game than in retard imagination planet-bowling-ball. Rhinos have to lose movement driving around buildings and get screened by enemy units which there's zero way for the TSS player to kill during the movement phase. If you clear the screen in your shooting phase, your rhino is still 20" away from the enemy tank and deals 0 damage. The actual threat range of a melta rhino squad is not even half of its imaginary-threat-range.
>>96186945Vehicles can just move through infantry anon.
>>96186939The problem is the limited (1), going for the real deal can be good because return fire/volley fire/overwatch with meltas is pretty scary.
That being said, a vet tactical squad with 2 meltas, 2 heavy disintegrators and 6 regular disintegrators isn't anything to scoff at.
>>96186945*oops, 290 point auTSS squad with rhino to likely fail to kill one tank.nt8tr
>>96186945You can drive over enemy infantry now, difficult terrain is only -2" total and most missions have deployment zones 24" apart. I don't think melta TSS are the best thing ever but trying to suggest that you can somehow avoid getting shot at in this game is a little silly.
Wow there's not really any good 3e batreps, huh? I could not stand the reality TV show format of PlayOn past the first movement phase. SN was awkward. TTT, the iron warriors guy is cool and played to entertain rather than win, respect, but I wish he played to win. He played with some other guy teaching him and that was dope. The Beard vs Pardo one was incredibly cringe(that channel over acts so much). Winters audio needs serious work but is an ok guy.
Wheres the content?
>>96186965there's no good battle reports period
>>9618695410 BS4 melta shots kills AV13 HP6 on average rolls, even better if you can get a side shot.
If "they'll die if they're shot" is a mark against a unit, then only custodes and super heavies would be viable.
>>96186973>10 BS4 melta shots kills AV13 HP6 on average rolls, even better if you can get a side shot.*Without being in melta range, btw.
>>96186899Knights can, but I think the real value to knights using reposition is to avoid shots to their rear since you can turn with a reposition
If you really care about killing a tank just stick them in a drop pod. one TSS kills just about any knight in the game in one round (with some overkill, like 18HP even if they react to redirect ion shields)
>>96186971Why is it the golden foursome can never be achieved?
>Quality production>Great tables/armies >No over acting>Knows the rules>>96186965I don't even want pro painted minis. I just want standard finished ones regardless of skill so long as the game is cool.
>>96186982You'd probably want to react with stomp instead if they land close enough to be in melta range.
>>96186953for the points cost that's absolutely something to scoff at. That's 250 points without any other accessories and the disintegrator rifles suck with only S4 AP3 and the overloading and short range.
That's 10 points away from a 4man Rapier gigalaser squad with 8x S10 AP2 Dmg2-3 Armourbane shots at 36" and 8 space marine bolter troopers.
Heavy disintegrators for 15 points are a maybe for killing crucial targets, but paying 20 points per model for one S4 AP3 shot is a definite no go.
>>96186993250 points for 20 T4 3+ wounds isn't bad at all, that's only 50 points over a regular 20 man tactical squad and they hit significantly harder.
>>96186999Yea tactical vets are pretty well costed, the issue is the slot type. Theyre not as exciting or impactful as vanguard vets or seekers.
>>96186996Yeah, disembarks are just a move from the vehicle now iirc
>>96187007I think Line (1) will keep them useable, if not actually meta. Most legions will have something better for their elite slots anyway.
>>96187008Oh right, they can probably just turn to face them too then. Guess the surprise melta bus is stuck bullying proper tanks. Bright out yer leman russes!
>>96186986>Knows the rulesChallenge level: impossible. I've never seen a batrep that didn't have multiple big rules mistakes.
>>96187030It's still a solid way to use them, especially if you can land in ruins so you can get a cover save against any return fire.
>>96186999that squad doesn't hit hard at all, retard. It's no threat to vehicles footslogging needing to get within 6" to actually use its melta (a stupid purchase), the heavy disintegrator needs to stand still to get its 2nd shot which is in its points cost, and the basic disintegrator rifles are worse damage per point than tactical marine bolters. You're dealing 0.42 wounds per model instead of 0.33 wounds, but since he gets exactly 2 tactical marines per 1 disintegrator rifle, he's dealing 0.66 wounds to your 0.42 wounds, you're suffering OVERLOAD to do 36% less damage than tactical marines.
>>96187008>Porphyrions are stomping at S18Considering you can only use it against infantry, cavalry or automata, that's the funniest overkill I've seen in 3.0 yet.
>>96187033Or split up, its only a small blast so if you move your guys properly its only one hit from the knight. Still, vs knights youre better off deep-striking land speeders I guess (since they cant reposition or stomp vs that)
>>96185527Clearly balance changes that do not change points values is the best option, anon. That's what everyone wanted.
>>96187037Anon, meltaguns are there to kill elite infantry, the same shit the rest of the unit does.
>>96187037It's a line unit, they're meant to stand on a mid field objective and stay there all game.
You also need to stand still to get Heavy (FP) on tacticals, so unless you feel like standing in your deployment zone all game you'll have to move too.
>>96187032Ill settle for minor mistakes, like shooting a plasma pistol and forgetting overload.
>>96187039>Or split up, its only a small blast so if you move your guys properly its only one hit from the knight.You put the small blast in contact with the knight's base, not an enemy model. I also think maintaining perfect maximum coherency when falling out of a drop pod is a bit ambitious.
So is the doomer era over?
>>96187067>You put the small blast in contact with the knight's base, not an enemy model.Ooooh. I was wondering what the range was. Still, pretty sure theres some way to screen it, and you have a 7" move to manage that.
>>96187070Now is the war of bitterness
>>96187085It is always the war of bitterness.
>>96187093The LONG War of Bitterness.
>>96187070Now that people can actually play probably yes. I actually like the new rules a lot. Just don't like the 3 year cycle.
>>96187070Rulebook is terribly written but the game is okay bar the shocking terrain rules. The real problem which will only get worse is the removal of creativity and wargear options in the libers - that is unforgivable and peak corporate GW
(Also I hate detachments - Force Org chart is peak GW)
>>96186986May I interest you in morbidly obese Canadians a la MWG or Mountain Miniatures or whatever the fuck it's called now?
I hope you ONLY like live batreps where the flow is constantly interrupted because of super chats by the super simps (handheld batreps are fucking paywalled. All of them).
>>96187104>bar the shocking terrain rules.Outside of heavy seemingly representing nothing possible I think the terrain rules are great. People just need to understand they are the ones who must assign the appropriate trait for the terrain they are gona use.
>>96187107>morbidly obese Canadians a la MWGThere's like one fat dude there that actually plays. The rest are either normal or jacked (Dave).
>>96187113true - forgot about the heavy weapon rules - truly a toxic competitive gamer stinker
>>96184172Guys dont tell him about the day -1 FAQ
>>96185268Yes, [Questor Familia] on each datasheet grants a Paradigm. The Freeblade vow is explicitly for an allied knight as well.
>>96187104the terrain rules are fine if you don't pretend that every area between 2 corner ruins is medium cover, which it shouldn't be desu
And if it is they also don't get to shoot, so it makes sense
What pisses me off is the fucking Schrodinger's models that are only there when you shoot at them but not when they shoot at you
>>96187120The (fat) mountain is obese, his sidekick who is in 90% of the videos is obese, the one with the big beard who mostly does the old school games is obese. The Glasses guy is merely fat, and Dave doesn't even do batreps so he doesn't count.
The company is fat as fuck. The only bald and fat one literally has one of those fat person diabetes plastic things jammed in his fat flabby arm, you can see it sometimes on stream
>>96183938 (OP)>TQ Depends - will imperial militia armies still be playable in 2nd edition?
>>96187121I mean I also think the new hevy for weapons is dumb, especially with the new snap shot table, but I meant heavy terrain.
>>96187140Yes, rules PDF gonna be dropped in a month or two.
>>96187140they are supposed to have a pdf but seeing what they've done to SoS I'm not holding my breath for them
>>96187128>The Freeblade vow is explicitly for an allied knight as well.That is because it is the exception to the rule at the top of the vow page.
>>96187104Hate how verbose the rules are so I'm currently condensing a stripped down version on Docs. Any rules lawyery type people that like to find loopholes can fuck off making the rules be this lengthy.
>>96184580What's the rule for implacable advance? Didn't see it in the leaks
>>96187093>there actually was a HH campaign called the Bitter War>the Iron Warriors were not involved
>>96184520Two tanks can and will be easily killed or rendered useless in one turn. Especially one with a range of 24'
Any fluff about Metalica in the GC/HH era? Thinking about making a House Raven detachment.
