Legacies Edition edition

>Previous thread:>>96245264

Legacies: https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/

>HH 3.0 Leaks
https://files.catbox.moe/98h6h7.pdf
https://gofile.io/d/cnJk0N
>Mech Leaks
https://imgur.com/a/lRaqKSw
>SA Gofile
https://gofile.io/d/YEEqBN
>Knight and Titans
https://imgur.com/a/gETA32z
https://imgur.com/a/UU60bLV
https://imgur.com/a/HqAriJA
https://imgur.com/a/9YS0YJG
Sloptica Journal 1
https://gofile.io/d/3q0Xkt

>New Edition upon us to a great wailing and gnashing of teeth
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/setting/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>Thread FAQ (very old, remembers Age of Terra)
https://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8
https://pastebin.com/8riDmnhS
>30k TACTICA & TIPS
https://pastebin.com/Tm2P4QLp
https://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Age_of_Darkness-Warhammer_30k/2.0_Tactics/General_Tactics

『Adeptus Titanicus and Legions Imperialis』
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/legions-imperialis/
>List of Titan Legions with Badges and Colours
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17Jccq0V--SwJifLVLwbisYnQeqLlS2pMSiPbGXp1Brs/htmlview
>More lists
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_Titan_Legions
>What size magnets do I need?
5x1mm
>Tactics
https://1d6chan.miraheze.orug/wiki/Adeptus_Titanicus/Tactics

>Thread Question:
Legacy winners and losers?

>>96251682 (OP)
TS FUCKING WON

>>96251682 (OP)
Next time you put your fucking anime horse in the OP I'll break your fucking legs

>>96251682 (OP)
>Legacy winners
Iron Hands looking pretty solid.
>and losers?
Talons. Also Imperial Fists, whose access to assault cannons is still limited. And all consuls with locked weapons.

>>96251698
you won't do shit, bitch.

>3 Rending 6+ shots on the move
Kek, TS Stay winning

>>96251682 (OP)
>losers
Every consul except warmongers. Do not listen to shills trying to downplay the glaring holes in Legacies, they pulled the exact same tactic when the Liber first leaked.

>>96251682 (OP)
>Combi-weapons for Headhunters again
>Effrit still solid and a Recon slot
>Banestrike bolters and combi-bolters back, even for terminators which was never added back in 2.0

Just another common Alpha Legion W

Cnmbwjx has child porn in his likes on Pixiv.
Anyone trying to rationalize it by claiming that it's board culture inherent to 4chan is too young and dumb, or willfully ignorant, to be worth discussing this with.

>>96251707
How does it feel to never have been touched by a woman?

Even with the pdf update, something still feels missing. Maybe it’s my issue with the core rules and/or consuls not getting wargear. I’m also pissed that Salamanders forge flamers are only exclusive to officers. I want our OG legion rules back with rites of war for termite deepstrike.

>>96251682 (OP)
>Legacy winners and losers?
Scars
Chase the Wind is one of the strongest reactions in the game when used on bikes/jetbikes, and every single HQ that matters got a bike version. Scimitar command squads are very solid with a surprise 3W each.
Bike chads have been getting W after W.

>>96251727
feels like projection

>>96251712
Damn right. Consuls having limited weapons options is good and helps give centurions a niche as opposed to just "budget consuls"

>>96251732
I'm not the one with pussy repellent on his phone

>>96251707
your cutesy anime shit doesn't belong here, read the room idiot

>>96251661
>How many tanks should be taken at 3000 points?
As many or as few as you like.

>How much AT?
Ah, there's the kicker! You want enough AT to reliably kill two Spartans a turn. Why? Because HH fags will spam armor every turn, that's why, and almost everyone has a Spartan at 3000 points because of the AoD box. That Saturnine Dreadnought is also damned tough, so yeah, enough to kill two Spartans in a turn and then some is perfect. Very little can accomplish this outside of massed Laser Vindicators, Rapier Laser Destroyers, Melta Kratos and superheavies, so be aware of that. Maybe ten command cataphractii with chainfists jumping out of a Spartan might be good and will spell certain doom for any tank, but that tank's going to be driving the fuck away and be screened if the other player isn't retarded. Just taking ten lascannons on a HSS isn't enough anymore.

>Are melta jetbikes any good, or are they too fragile for their job?
Imo, too fragile, but YMMV. They'll probably be a high priority target and get wiped in one turn.

>>96251728
Oh no, poor baby salamanders with their bad rules. However will they cope.

>>96251715
I just primed my Lerneaens last night and they have chargers ha. Well time to see if I can scrounge 4 combi bolters.

>>96251718
There's a non-zero chance that someone involved in the GW design and/or rules team raped someone, therefore it is immoral to consume any Warhammers

>>96251748
>You want enough AT to reliably kill two Spartans a turn
>800points worth of tanks
>I want to de-facto table my opponent in 3 turns reliably
Gee anon, how simple.

>2+ 5++, FnP 5+ in challenges
>+2S AP3 Breaching 5+ Crit 6+ weapons
>WS5 3 attacks
wtf are these onafim guys so powerful

>>96251747
>Complaining about anime
>On 4chan

umamusume is unironically a better game than heresy 3.0

>>96251747
My Blackshield Saturnines will use Goldship as their Warband insignia

So... have I got this combo right?

>IH's player takes a squad of Indomitus Hammernators.
>He also takes a Biomancy Librarian.
>A unit tries to charge the Hammernators.
>The Hammernators take a Shieldwall reaction and are now T6
>The Librarian cast's Biomantic Rage on them.
>They are now T8 and Str 6 base, upped to Str9 with the hammers.
>Iron Hands, so all shooting attacks are -1str, so in the volley phase at least, they count as being T9, meaning even the overcharged Plasma Pistol Mori is still wounding on a 5+.

It's a niche combo (requires to be charged, only works against Volley attacks.) But you can take these guys in blocks of 10, and Str 9 Thunderhammers seems... pretty good for anti-vehicle work? Especially on a platform with 2 attacks each.

The numbers, Mason.
They aren't adding up; something is fucky about the Saturnine box supply. Been monitoring the burger market since the UK fire sale, and the needle is barely moving. The supply is way higher than originally anticipated, and the secondary markets are still over valuing it.
Is it the cocaine? Am I just being impatient? Ebay sellers sticking to -15% of GW's prices is creating a bubble.

>>96251754
They raped every word bearers player just last month

>>96251762
The catch is they suck outside challenges. Damage 1ap3 is just bad for fighting normal units. Go put them up against a command squad and see how well they do.

>>96251760
You won't table your opponent in 3 turns, calm down. Unlike in 2.0, that kind of AT firepower will barely put a dent in infantry units, and your opponent will be killing your own AT firepower over those 3 turns. It's just what's necessary to not get tabled by enemy armor since tanks got a huge buff in 3.0.

>>96251766
So go post in that thread then and fuck off

>>96251762
They are a million points

>>96251782
I know, but my point is "plan to reliably kill 1/4 of your enemy army worth of tanks in one turn" is silly and excessive. I think two batteries of rapiers and maybe a vindicator or two is more than enough.

>>96251747
this >>96251707 isn't even me lmao, but I appreciate the support. I dont even play it, but it triggers the troll in my friend group too so the bad shops will continue.

>>96251773
The non exclusive box they made a shit ton of so that stores can have an unlimited supply has not run out
I'm shocked

>>96251782
>t's just what's necessary to not get tabled by enemy armor since tanks got a huge buff in 3.0.
A spartan kills like, just over a terminator in the shooting phase. You arent getting tabled by spartans and land raiders and other Av14 things (well, maybe by guard, but they have that rear armor 10)

>>96251754
Moral relativism. Knowingly reposting the artwork of a person who, on his public art account has child porn in his likes on that website, and pretending that it is fine is not the same and unknowingly spreading the work of someone who is potentially an offender.
Your argument is in bad faith.

>>96251779
>Damage 1ap3
i dunno anon with 15 +2S attacks and crit 6+ they seem pretty dangerous to me. They will struggle against 4++ but against everything else? i don't think so.

i am not a 30k chad but want to be, and i love big toys. my LGS just had a swap meet and i got 3 questoris knights for SUPER cheap but lack weapons. i plan to acquire/convert/print weapons and magnetize everything, and obtain some armigers (and probably a cerastus) to fill it out a true knight army - no intentions to splash mechanicum/astartes/auxilia using the new deatchments.

but because i don't have experience in the system i am having analysis paralysis when it comes to loadouts using the generic questoris unit. i was also interested in the porphyrion but i already feel like kind of a shithead wanting to play knights at all - does the 30k community feel similarly to how 40k does about knight players, and does this sentiment get even worse with the bigger FW stuff?

tl;dr knightbros: what are you fielding in HH3 both in terms of army structure and loadouts for freeblades? have you abandoned the questoris for the cerastus/acastus, and does that make it less/more skubby?

>>96251799
You found the one other person with the same mental illness as you
Congrats, trade contact info and go jerk each other off

>>96251773
Have you considered you've unknowingly cherrypicked sources and tried to extrapolate hysteria into actual money which almost always fails

>>96251807
Spartans have STR 9 AP2 D3 guns with 2 shots each. They will skullfuck you and are usually carrying far worse things. You must kill them before they kill you

>>96251821
not a knight person but if you need the questoris book and rulebook they are in the gofile in op

>>96251773
There's a few reasons the box set is not selling
1) The models are divisive in the community, not everyone was receptive to the saturnine terminators and as a result some may avoid the starter set
2) The new edition was controversial, while likely not the leading factor probably did contribute to some sales loss
3) The biggest reason: Majority of the box set is not something 40kfags can use. The previous starter set did very well due to a lot of 40k players buying it to use as a bulk starter set for 40k, the new one offers very little for 40k players since they cannot port the units over.
4) GW saw the success of the previous box set and made too many copies of this new one expecting the same result. This is the exact same thing that happened to the sigmar starter sets, GW overestimates how much these sets will sell purely off evidence of things like the 40k leviathan set selling well.

>>96251797
>two batteries of rapiers and a vindicator

TWO WHOLE FUCKING BATTERIES OF RAPIERS? THAT'S LIKE 12 RAPIERS WHAT THE FUCK

>>96251821
Playing a 30k knights list is a different kind of horse shit compared to playing 40k knights

30k knights aren't THAT hard to kill, and have a hard time scoring. They're also just ok in melee (much better at killing other vehicles in melee, not elite terminators)
The difference is that they have cosmically strong shooting in 30k

I would recommend you go look at the Liber Questoris, because 30k knights are organized very differently from 40k ones.

>>96251820
Into 2+ armor

15*1/6*2+15*1/3*1/3+15*1/3*1/3*1/6 = 6.9 wounds.
So with no invuln of any kind you kill like 3 command squad models.
If they HAVE any sort of invuln that can drop to as little as "you kill like a dude"

For your 50ppm retinue unit (limited to 5 big) you really do want more.

>>96251811
>uses reductionist scare words
>accuses others of bad faith
I mean I just hate the guy because femarchfags are cringe, but continue the moral posturing on 4chan?

Does anyone have the official PDFs to share yet?

>>96251821
If you don't splash in Aux or Militia you will get raped in mission that emphasize objectives.

>>96251821
I'm excited. I'm going to try some as allies first. My Asterius looks good for the first time ever. Thinking Atrapos freeblade with two moirax, warglaive, and helverin to test them as allies.

>>96251861
>Hating pedos is moralfagging
Bet you thought the Polanski petition was justified too

>>96251749
I’m stating that I’d rather be nerfed and have our old legion rules back then have this power gamey shit. Fuck off faggot

>>96251682 (OP)
I like the horsegirl edits boss. Thanks for baking the bread.

>look at LGS photos
>one guy takes two sicaran venators, 2 predators and a rhino to his games
>another brings a Spartan, a land raider carrier and a melta kratos to his games
>another brings a Spartan and 2 predators
>another brings TWO Spartans and a sicaran
>another brings a sicaran omega and a spartan
>another brings a fellblade and several vindicators

>look at my measly list with only four laser rapiers, a Spartan, 3 melta jetbikes, some chainfist cataphractii who will apparently never get the chance to assault a tank, and a single dreadnought with autocannons for AT firepower

Ohhhh I'm fucked.

>>96251821
I don't want to disappoint you but prepare to be disappointed, knights are pretty dogshit in melee combat in 30k to where they're basically just glorified shooty tanks that cost 2-3x more. A single unit of 10 terminators with power fists can sweep through a whole knight army if you don't focus it down, and you're going to lose the objective game 9/10 times

>>96251878
>>96251907
damn, this is something i was afraid of but it seems a fair trade to avoid how gross they are (currently) in 40k - board control is a struggle even when bringing armigers? maybe i'll look more at mechanicum allies.

>>96251682 (OP)
TQ
>Won :
TS
>Lost :
DA

Thanks the warmaster neither morlocks nor huscarls have thunder hammers; they would be insufferable striking at i2 while having eternal warrior.

hows he lookin bros?

>>96251727
Bready good, ngl

Salamanders continue having units that confuse the fuck out of me.
>15ppm combi flamer unit that can volley fire with combi / heavy flamers, but no firestorm so they have to charge
>only chainswords on normal mooks, so you don't probably still don't want to charge dedicated melee units
>troop slot, but vanguard unfortunately
Or
>16ppm melee foot vets
>only 1 per 5 can take a sergeant weapon though
>firestorm and can take double volkite serpenta
>rotor cannons and entire squad melta bombs for some reason
>in support detachment, so you can mash ws6 4a forge craft weapons if you want using the special sallies detachment

>>96251937
glorious

>>96251907
>terminators sweeping through a knight army
Niggas are gonna get 2 whole charges off in an entire game if they're lucky, and being engaged with a knight doesn't stop you from getting shot from their comical amounts of AP2

Are the numbers on the status tokens supposed to represent the modifiers?

>>96251861
Keeping things simple and direct instead of overly verbose is not reductionistic whatsoever, it is succinct. An artist drawing a female Primarch doesn't bother me at all, rule 63 has been around for ages and it's not going to stop anytime soon. If you can honestly look at yourself in the mirror and say "I am fine with the artists that I repost being into child pornography", then you're too far gone already. As an aside, me catching a warning/block/ban for pointing this out tells me that someone in the thread gets pressed enough to report it every single time. Maybe you can try not spreading the artwork of a known pedophile, instead of being butthurt about it being called out?

>>96251937
They look great, anon. Beautiful Phoenician sons.
But as an Iron Hands enjoyer I’m obligated to tell you to go FUCK yourself

>>96251949
>can volley fire with combi / heavy flamers, but no firestorm so they have to charge
Volley fire is also defensive.

>>96251974
Yes. They're real convenient to remind you of the modifier a unit got hit with, since you test at the end of the phase.

>>96251931
DA players should be euthanized. It's the humane option at this point

>>96251771
only 1 reaction per unit, right?

>>96251949
The roles are conflicting. The 2.0 versions were more clear in their roles and rules didn’t conflict with them. Plus they all had dragon breaths flamers. 3.0 rules are gay

>>96252022
Bold talk from someone who gets tabled by Interemptors.

>>96251937
KILL ALL BASEDALISTS

>>96251763
The horses belong in /mlp/.

>>96251907
Armigers seem to be the way to go. Helverins pop whatever flavor of marine well and can tag up light vehicles. Moiraxes can chuck out a bunch of status effects on breaching ap3 templates. Warglaives seem like the weak link but if Tartaros end up being the better pick, they can potentially pick up a termie or two in melee.

>>96252088
I'm a DA player

>>96252089
soiyalists*

>>96251715
Feels good picking the WAACfag faction!

>>96251806
That's my point, the unlimited supply should mean lower prices.

>>96251834
If you can supply me with examples of retailers outselling 2.0 or otherwise breaking expectations on sales with 3.0, all we have are the people reporting they ordered, or were allotted, too many boxes with too few sales.

https://gofile.io/d/509O5S
liber hereticus/loyalist/mechanicum scans

>>96252103
>I'm a DA player
Friendly fire hits hardest.

>>96252077
I think I'll probably end up building both. The sanctifiers seem like I'll be more likely to use them. I just have a lot of units I think are cool and want to build, but are probably shelf riders.

>>96252133
As long as you’re happy building anon. I find one thing I like about 3.0 and then I find two things I don’t. I just can’t bring myself to get involved with 3.0. 1.0 with tweaks is where I’ll try to move the community.

>>96252125
Why is the loyalist pdf so much smaller the traitor?

>>96251682 (OP)
Rampagers still have no jumppacks.

Also where the hell are the rules for rad grenades? I can't see them anywhere.

>>96252125
thank you

>>96251898
You're welcome, Anon. I only know this one horse because of its IRL counterpart.

>>96252125
>Actual proper scans
Thank you anon, you're a real saviour

>>96252000
But they are also vanguard. I'd go nuts for them if they had line 1 or 2. Guess I need to hack together a master of signals.

>>96252165
oh sorry, that's the dolphin porn lora

>>96252022
Omw to becoming Canadian right now.

>>96252125
Thanks a lot. I really wanted to see the new heraldry stuff. The paint schemes are a little different from what I remember.

>>96252163
Rad nades are in the mech book only for some reason.

Also are destroyers just unfathomable based now? They can throw out 20 poison 2+ ap3 attacks PER TURN, without even having to buy rad missiles.

I'm surprised the Macrocarid is as cheap as it is, it's not exactly heavily armed but it's a flare-shielded brick of solid osmium for 200pts. From his no-rules grave, Calleb Decima is laughing.

>>96252205
Why are you playing EC? are you in the SE US?

>>96252068

Sure, you can only do Shieldwall once per turn, but it's still not a bad combo. Hell, use Shieldwall to protect yourself from shooting from a particularily nasty attack, and then use Bio-Rage the next turn when you charge. It's all good.

>>96252209
>destroyers can now do actual war crimes
Based

>>96252163
They are in the volkite page
They are ranged weapon now
>>96252209
Rad grenades aren't assault, they can only use them once per turn

>stripes

>>96252234
sad, only 10 rad nades per turn.

>>96252228
I think psychic powers are also reactions so you can only use one or the other, but I might just be retarded

>>96252163
>rules for rad grenades?
Under Rad Shooting Weapons in any Liber

>>96252254

Some are and say "Psychic Reaction." others like Biomantic rage just say Psychic Powers.

>>96251698
>>96251707
can't you guys keep this shit in australia

>>96252242
>stripes

>>96252110
I don't think you should post your opinions if you have clearly no idea how GW distribution works

>>96251827
please don't share your gay hookup fantasies with with us.

>>96252253
40 volkite shots wounding on 2s is good enough to mop up whats left.

10*2/3*5/6 = 5.5
40*2/3*5/6*1/3 = 7.4
7.4*5/6*1/3 = 2

So if you run a unit of 10 destroyers up, throw grenades and then volley you deal around 15 wounds to power armor.

>>96252254
>>96252265

Ah, I see the actualy problem now. Psychic Powers can only be used on your turn, reactions can only be used on their turn. So you can never actually use both it seems.

Biomantic SLAM
which turns you into JAM

>>96251993
>>96251953
>>96252089
whoops I should have been more specific. I meant how are rylanors new rules
but I appreciate the compliments

>Loken stopped commanding legionaries after the first action of the Heresy
>has Master of the Legion
Makes no sense.

Is he aura farming?

>>96252305

Alternatively:

>Makes his Thunderhammers Str9
>Bonks your Spartan into scrap.
>Does not elaborate
>Leaves.

>>96252324
His profile is for representing him at Istvann 3

>>96252323
Hes a dreadnought. He has a special rule that lets him challenge fulgrim or fulgrim transfigured.

Hes not very good chief, hes just a regular dread that costs like a regular dread and has a fluff rule that will just get him absolutely dismantled by fulgrim who now hits him on fucking 2s

>>96252294
dual serpentas for 5ppm is pretty ridiculous
You don't even need the rad grenades, you do more damage with them. Tho the second round gets buffed if you do

>>96252331
Accidentally ended up with salamander gene seed

>>96252323
Oh.
Lmao, ol' Rylanor sucks ass sorry bro.

>>96252289
Can GW's distribution defy economic supply and demand? Has anyone said "wow, i needed to order more, this is going well" because all the self reports have been "oops". If your contention is that the box is selling just fine, you should address >>96251839

>>96252331
the contrast is really fucked up

>>96252331
>blackface
>and torso

>>96252337
I think its still worth to throw a few grenades in there if you can, the boost to subsequent shooting is absolutely worth it. but yea, despoilers look very tasty into power armor or anything else with low-ish toughness.

>>96252337
phage is absurdly useful now it actually effects the entire unit as it always should have.

Even a small destroyer squad can probably completely wipe a large tac blob with rad nades, volkite volley fire, then melee to mop up.

>>96252125
very cool! thank you very much anon!

>>96252362
Yup, a 10 man destroyer squad can pretty reasonably deal with 20 wounds worth of power armor. They even punch well into vets due to it, sure theyll get minced in the melee but you just dont leave enough to get there. With grenade launchers and volkites you just do a boatload of damage.

Heres your answer to night raptors, dark furies, reavers, and whatever the fuck else. Just blast them.

Is there any reason to not have 10 Power Fisting Vet Breachers for 365 points outside of their cost? Or should they instead go 3+ Save hunting with Lightning Claws / whatever power weapon you feel like?

Theyre WS5, 2A, 3+/5++ so they at least have something if they encounter other terminators.

>True Believers is in both Libers

Food for thought: Do NOT build lists based on what is "good" or "meta." Build lists based on NARRATIVE. What does your legion fight like? What forces does your legion have in high numbers? At any point in the Heresy, what forces would a given Legion commander have available in his area? Example:

Tanks might be quite good in 3.0, but if you're playing traitor DG, you should know that the DG didn't have all that many remaining after Isstvan 3, as a majority of their vehicle crews prior to the heresy were Terran born. However, the traitor DG made up for this by having vast reserves of terminator armored troops, which any post-Isstvan 3 DG commander should have available to him in order to equip his troops.

>>96252100
GW basically added a Knight tax to armigiers after realizing people found a horde of lights more useful than Sir Whiffsalot and Co.

>>96252395
You can have Traitor loyalists

>>96252398
every single time you make this retard post, it's countered by GW's own statement that
>Legions All Do Everything
you're not obligated to only run melee troops for World Eaters or only sniper squads for Alpha Legion or only jetpack models for Blood Angels
So the whole "my army must be fluffy" is entirely asspull nonsense. If your army gets called fluffy, that's because you've just accepted one bland flanderization of an entire 100,000+ marine legion, not that you're some enlightenedd fluffmaster.

>>96252398
I can't help it that my infantry heavy army which was trash in 1.0 has became good in 2.0 and is most likely meta in 3.0

>>96252391
Why wouldnt you take them with thunder hammers instead? Tartaros at home.

>>96252335
>for some reason the salamanders one gets ws5/bs5

>>96252391
I'd put a grav gun in there for pinning checks, at least 1.

>>96252421
They dont have access to them (Unless Im gigablind)

>>96252391
Its funny that power swords and lightning claws are the same cost, yet lightning claws are a direct upgrade. (also a direct upgrade to phalax blades, WE stay losing)

>>96252426
Vulkan is such a kind and enlightened primarch, that he builds GamerChairs into every dreadnought, granting WS5.

>>96252434
It's always been like that

>>96252427
Hmm maybe 2 so that any sniping has to work a bit harder to remove the squads source of pinning. But yeah, good idea.

>>96252323
>rylanor
very bad, worse than in 2.0 before the legacy PDF update (at least back then he has ws5). He costs as much as a similarly equipped contemptor and goes in the same slot. He can participate in a challenge but ONLY against Fulgrim. He has 12 CL in comparison to the 10 CL of the default contemptor, and that's it.

>>96252416
The thing is hes both right and wrong. Yes, building for fluff is cool, and yes, factoring in those sorts of legion "limitations" is interesting. But its also missing the scale of the war.
The DG had a large number of their tank commanders be loyalists, they still had enough left to field entire companies of vehicles. And this is thinking in the immediate aftermath of Istvaan III, ignoring that their numbers would have obviously been rebuilt during the war proper.

Building around the specific context of for example the istvaan campaigns allows you to have a very thematic and fluffy army, but it isnt the only way you could build the army, theres an entire war afterwards.

>>96252426
The salamanders one takes your praetor slot but doesent have master of the legion. He costs 220pts + 1 reaction per turn (or a prime detachment).

>>96252398
I’m going to run an Iron Hands infantry wave and I can’t be stopped.

Thousand Sons will be a menace in the game, a plague

only ONE legion will stand up to stop them.

>>96252416
Looking at the narrative to inform your list building choices does not equate to flandarizing your legion. It just means not choosing what's meta for the sake of it. Look at the Burma campaign in WW2, for example: The British mostly only had Staurt tanks to rely upon for tank support early in the conflict, and it was only later in the war that they began to receive Shermans and Lees from the Americans. You wouldn't find any Churchill Crocodiles, though!

The Scars mini showcases has a mk2 standard bearer

>>96252398
>ou should know that the DG didn't have all that many remaining after Isstvan 3
Which doesnt translate to player lists. 3k with 6 tanks is still "not many" in the grand scheme. Lore:List ratios are stupid.
g8 b8 tho

>>96252442
not before 3e, but GW doesn't even take into account the lost attack for dual wielding when balancing numbers.

>>96252477
>3k list
>SIX TANKS

That's a shitload of tanks for a 28mm scale game played on a 6x4 table. Tank battles occur over much longer distances, no reason for them all to be bunched up and fighting each other at practically point blank ranges. Large numbers of tanks are better suited for epic scale, where the distances can be properly accounted for.

can you ally yourself?

>>96252466
AL are nicely mid tier, but TS are S-tier overpowered. TS even have Seekers with 5+ rending on Kraken bolters to counter the whole strength4 weakness and let them wreck toughness 7-8 enemies, which are precision on 4+ as well and breach every time they rend to strip characters right out of units.
If you shoot them, the psyker character attached reacts to make their marines Toughness 6 or their terminators Toughness 7, so your alpha legion marine-killing S4 guns just bounce off needing 6+ to wound (which stops your alpha legion from sniping the nerd characters)
Maybe he also attachs characters giving the unit 4+ shrouding against shooting.

AL are great, they're not DA. But that doesn't mean they can match the retard rules writing of TS.

>>96251682 (OP)
Reminder that GW had a tiny legacy list planned, and the massive outburst of cope actually made them panic change everything.

Never doubt leakchad.

>>96252341
Okay you've never even talked to a store staff so I'll spell it out for you
Games Workshop forces a floor on the price of their products for all third party retailers, about 10-15% off what they show on their site
Furthermore they are not allowed to discount them under any circumstances beyond the price floor
Not respecting these conditions will incur a loss of right to sell Games Workshop products
Games Workshop also keeps a significant inventory of all starter products to ensure that stores always have a supply
The stores in turn have to report sales figures for said starter products
In a mainline game they start a new edition with a limited big box and follow it with a lot of mini versions of said box, there is a massive inventory of said mini boxes and they are expected to last a long time
Saturnine will not have mini boxes and is intended to hold until the next factory rotation
In case you didn't know and because of what you posted I expect that you don't, the factory does not crank out a steady trickle of every product
They have to switch their production to the next big thing and the adjacent kits that they expect people to buy along with the next big thing
This is why heresy was out of stock until 3.0 released
The next big thing right now is 40k 11th Ed and so the factory will produce very little Heresy product for the foreseeable future because the inventory needed for a new 40k edition is incomprehensibly huge
Hence they have stockpiles of saturnine because the inventory needs to hold for at least a year, year and a half

Khârn has higher IN than
>Alexis Polux
>Angron Transfigured
>Argel Tal
>Armillus Dynat
>Aster Crohne
>Camba Diaz
>Erebus
>Exodus
>Fafnir Rann
>Fulgrim Transfigured
>Geigor Fell-Hand
>Hibou Khan
>Kaedes Nex
>Lotara Sarrin
>Lucius
>Kor Phaeron
>Sevatar
>Zardu Layak
Was he always clever like this? Have I been dismissing him unfairly as an overemotional manbaby?

>>96252495
The bigger difference for siege termies is each of them being able to take a heavy weapon, since fists and hammers got errata'd into the vanilla versions

>>96252503
He outlives most of these characters, so...

>>96252492
>its the 28mm autist
I'm not going to lie, I didn't read your post.

>>96252287
>>96252242
my headcanon is that the pre unification terran iron warriors just really like OSHA and site safety regulations

>>96252335
>>96252340
>>96252450
oh I wasnt expecting much but thats depressing

>>96252492
BASED. 30k should have a "one vehicle per side per 1000 points" limit. So should 40k. And named characters should go back to only being able to be taken with your opponent's permission, AKA when the narrative permits it.

>>96252503
Anon most of those people are retarded

>>96252503
Bro knew how to use excel to track his kills.

>>96252503
Reminder that Khârn was the go-to choice for diplomatic undertakings, as he was the most reasonable and level-headed of all the World Eaters.

>>96252506
I know anon, but look at the the little fluff message.
Seige terminators were explicitly intended as normal tartaros, but they can all take fists/hammers/chainfists.

The actual rules say no fists or hammers (but still chainfists) and unlimited heavy weapons.

So clearly the blowback was bad enough that they added the high tier melee weapons back to the base unit, but rather than just acknowledge that fuckup and not release the seige squad at all, they just gave it a new gimmick in the last few weeks.

>>96251682 (OP)
If I were James Workshop I would simply make Fulmentarus absolutely fucking broken at the start of every edition, then go back and forth breaking and remaking them every time a Legacies update released

>>96252503
He was wise enough not to share relish. Also was the brains that guided the legion.

>>96252514
Not my fault that fucking 15-20 28mm scaled tanks bunched up on a 6x4 table looks like dogshit and doesn't represent how tanks fight, anon.

>>96251746
NTA but women love that cutsy shit. It's like catnip to them.

>>96252540
It's not too odd considering they gave thallax and bikes all access to every model taking a special weapon, seems to be a 3.0 thing in general

>>96252516
Honestly I think its entirely what he should be. I also think most of the named characters should just be "centurion with power weapon". He was just a dreadnought

>>96252549
>the brains that guided the legion.
That was Lotara. Kharn was not the ideas guy.

>96252552
Yeah I actually held my hand up to censor your post so I couldn't read it, get a trip so I can filter your awful opinions and stop samefagging.

Hot take: You should have 100 infantry models minimum at 3000 points. If you don't, you're a fag.

>>96252556
the heavy ranged weapons aren't odd, the lack of fists and hammers when their only lore explicitly states that those are this unit's gimmick IS odd.

>>96252552
>doesn't represent how tanks fight
We don't typically throw people armed with chainsaws and axes at each other either.

>>96252560
Venerable dreadnoughts have always been acknowledged though.

>>96252527
>>96252560
>most of the named characters should just be "centurion with power weapon".
GW agrees with you, although it's actually usually "praetor with Paragon blade". And I actually do agree with them because again, having cool stuff locked behind some fag's OC is gay

>>96252569
This unironically. Mass infantry is always peak HH.
The only problem in 3e is that massed foot infantry might simply lose the game immediately if the other team drives line units onto objectives T1 while you have to waste time walking.

>>96252578
Nor do tanks have a limited range of 200 yards. You wonder why battles are parking lots? Can't hit shit at range.

>>96252560
Might as well remove the entry like all the other named characters that got that exact treatment

>>96252455
Don't worry he'll make up for it with int 8 scrap code injection. I think his best case is burning the prime slot on an ally detachment.

>>96252572
>the lack of fists and hammers
What? They have access to the Terminator melee weapons list

Dual melee dreads should be WS5 base

>>96252554
This you?

>>96252503
>>Erebus
>>Lucius
>>Kor Phaeron
These three all have int 7. Which on the one hand makes me think the rules writer is not a fan of Erebus, but on the other hand is also mildly amusing.

>>96252604
No, only the sergeant does. The rest are power weapon or chainfist.

>>96252604
Read the entry anon

>>96252649
Nah, Mr. Mind Too Small For Doubt being Int 7 makes sense

>>96252560
really all I wanted was a slightly better ws or morale ability

>>96251682 (OP)
does anybody have a Saturnine termie and a Sanctioner automata they can photograph to convince me they're radically different sizes

>>96251727
Launching a ballistic missile from the living room of a glass house in the horus heresy general

Rolled 1, 2 = 3 (2d6)

>>96252665
>Read
Making an IN check

>>96252675
But he was just a normal dread in 2.0 too (basically) dreads were just a lot stronger in 2.0 in general

>>96252691
Caspian Dracos kept WS5 BS5

>>96252691
I could have sworn he was like ws6 and had an extra wound or something

>>96252711
He had an extra wound and crusader iirc

>>96252706
Casian drakos had to overcompensate for the extremely shitty rules in the last, what, 4 editions combined of 40k and HH?

>>96251682 (OP)
This faggy anime shit is so fucking cringe
> But la anime website!!!!
Your fag cartoons are why so many of you FAGGOTS cut your dick off and pretend to be woman.
Join the 41% you disgusting creatures

Liber Hereticus has a Sons of Horus dreadnought named Judd. He's Judd the dreadnought. I thought that was funny.

>>96252706
Psspss Psspss was like the king of the undead firewights or some shit, you're lucky he isn't Doomguy

>>96252736
No one on /tg/ has the right to call other people's hobbies cringe anon
Much less you anon

>>96252736
rent free lmao

just built this guy. Thinking he'll be a champion

>>96252761
Nice sergeant bro, champions can't have plasma pistols.

>>96252761
Twist the wrist of the hand holding the pistol like 80 degrees upwards. Besides that cool model.

>>96252767
optae it is then

>>96252761
>>96252767
>>96252780
Paladin you dumbasses

>>96252777
ill probably just swap it with something else entirely if I ever want it to be a wysiwyg champion

>>96252780
Or just pay the points. GW isn't going to kill you. It's a good litmus test to see if someone is worth playing.

>>96252761
> Those mold lines
Yikes from me dawg

>>96252761
Looks cool as fuck

>>96252767
Guess it counts as a bolt pistol :^)

>>96252790
Never specified what legion

>>96252810
Mentor Legion?

>>96252569
agree
i'm a man not a car
i'm investing my time and energy into men not cars

>>96252824
>i'm investing my time and energy into men

Okay calm down there Lion 'El Johnson

>>96251698
op needs to display his gambling addiction for everyone to see, please understand

Nerd squad is a-go
Might make a techmarine to hang out with them

>>96252800
if you look closely you'll notice there's also no paint on it yet either

>>96252839
Aren't augur command and control squads 4 marines total?

>>96252879
I presume he has the MoS with them.

>>96252879
Oh yeah it totally is. Welp, guess one of these guys is getting bumped to a consul of some sort

No but seriously through when are the capitol imperialis being reintroduced into the setting? if big Horus heresy can have saturnine LI should get the imperialis

>>96252885
Can you not count?

>>96252892
I'm 100% ok with Solar Aux getting more toys for me to destroy.

>>96251728
The core rules are fundamentally different to traditional 30K, and for me that's the main problem. The game I love isn't here in 3.0.
The Legacy PDF and equipment options was just the cherry on top for me.

>>96252893
He's a word bearer on a bike anon, come on don't make fun of his disability

>>96252892
If Ligma was to get a new big unit it'd be some kind of titan

>>96252843
Anyone too lazy to remove the mold line lines before they build the model isn't going to paint shit.
Just another blob of grey plastic/resin on a plain base some fat loser pushes around the board (the board is 99% l shaped walls)

>>96252924
You're a stupid nigger who exists only to make others lives worse, and when you inevitably become a suicide statistic the world will be slightly better.

>>96252924
Wow, he even added a fucking paranthesis caption to his retarded zoomer tiktok script.
You're so fucking clever, everyone really loves you for shitting your pants over a mold line on some guy's pistol.
Jesus Christ, execute all zoomers.

>>96252924
bold of you to assume I dont paint my minis anon

>>96252924
post army.

>>96252908
Who the hell is Steve Jobs?

>>96252903
I think that’s what it is. They hit close to what I think are attempts to fix things but miss the mark. The older rule sets have better skeletons to work with

>>96252924
post models or youre brown

>>96252903
>>96252970
Yeah, legacy doc adds back much of (but not all) of the shit they removed in terms of options, but the 3e core rules are fundamentally different from what they used to be, which was 40k 3e-7e rules based.

I can't speak for everyone, but many people I know, myself included, got into 30k back in the day since it had that more traditional ruleset.

Current rules are skirting the edge of modern 40k rules, which I'm really just not interested in playing.

>>96252834
no. come here

>>96253001
Agreed, I’m skimming through my black books waiting for dinner to finish cooking and it just feels right. Even if flawed. Easily fixed I say.

>>96252502
thanks

>>96253001
>skirting the edge of modern 40k rules
lol, lmao even

>building saturnine dread
>3 steps in and you already can't do it without locking in the pose
>each leg is 29 pieces
This is going to be very long and annoying.

>>96251747
>Aghh the juxtaposition of FOTM anime meme and my hecking hhg is making mad
also
>Bro, imagine if like Space Marines invaded the Shire. Like imagine if Bilbo Baggins took a fucking bolter shot in front of his fucking round door. Fucking brutal, man

>mech has the conversion beamer, its a bit shit
>marines have the conversion beam cannon, its good and like, only one unit can use it

may have got the names mixed up but ??? why make 2 seperate weapons and make one good and one shit

>>96252398
I agree to focus on narrative, but you miss the point going off about the "what did X legion fight like", as every legion did a bit of everything. Hell, my AL are inspired by the heavy armor deployed during the Paramar campaign under Dynat. No seekers/headhunters etc. that you'd typically expect.

>>96253058
Wasn't there something similar during the shadow Crusade where the world eaters went into some idyllic Eldar shrine world and then an eldar showed an unleashed super death that turned that zone of space into a forbidden zone even in 40k times?

>>96253075
Marines have a regular conversion beamer too; Lerneaens have it. Also theyre all good, you crazy?

>>96253075
>Lernaean terminators can take conversion beam cannons
ALfags really got it all

>>96253048
>strategems
>multi damage weapons
>run and gun with heavy weapons
>objective circle gameplay
>shitty terrain rules

Its not modern 40k anon, but it has clear inspiration and ideas pulled from it.

Shame DG destroyers can't take chem flamer pistols and Siege Termies can't get Heavy chem flamers

>>96253075
Because one is carried by infantry or a single contemptor arm and the other needs a whole tank to carry it?

>>96253081
X Legion fought like absolute lions, every man a gigachad.

>line 1
I just think they're neat

solid unit for attempting that catch up rule where you double the points you gain in the final turn if you're half or less then your opponents score?

>>96253110
They bumrushed like idiots because they didn't take a page out of the World Eaters book about knowing when to lock up your Primarch.

>>96253106
>Movement phase
>Shooting guns
>Hitting things in melee
Basically the same game, really

>>96253135
Shut the fuck up, Fulgrim.

>>96253106
>>strategems
Reactions have been in since 2.0

>>objective circle gameplay
The game has been objective based since 2.0

>>96253178
Objective markers existed in 1.0 too. There even was a progressive scoring mission.

>>96252892
They are already in the black books as a superheavy SA command tank in the background fluff.

>>96253178
yes, and 2e also departed from 1e/old 40k rules, while 3e departed even further from 2e.

2e and 3e objectives are pretty radically different, with shorter game length and units offering the difference between 1vp and 3vp, vs 2e where it was simply scoring or non scoring units.

>>96253075
One is a tank gun and the other is man portable.

>>96253191
Missions were also 4 turns in 2e

>and units offering the difference between 1vp and 3vp, vs 2e where it was simply scoring or non scoring units.
That is a smaller difference. A regular unit gets say 3VP from an objective while a line unit gets 4 or 5, as opposed to getting no points in 2e.

>>96253205
>Missions were also 4 turns in 2e
(some) missions were 4 turns anon.

>That is a smaller difference
It depends on the mission, but its generally a larger difference because its much harder to catch up on VP unless you also have line(2) units.
If the enemy has a line(2) unit on an objective and you only have line(1)/non line unit on an objective, you're not keeping up the score, you're losing more every turn.

I am not trying to argue 1e is better. Its what (I) enjoy more, and why I started playing it. Other people are fully entitled to enjoy 3e more if thats their thing, more power to them.

>>96253226
If you have no line units in older editions you just lose. Your opponent scores *any* VP and then you simply cant win. That is a SMALLER difference than now, where line units simply score more VP (often less than what an objective is worth) and controlling two objectives with regular units can still beat a line unit on one objective.

>>96253226
>unless you also have line(2) units.
Oh my god, a fucking reason to bring tacticals. What a shit game.
Jfc if you don't like the changes just play 1.0 or 3-7th 40k
But don't fucking say 3.0 is the same as current 40k because none of these changes + the 2.0 changes multiplied by 5 come close to the retardation they did in 8th and have been carrying along ever since

>>96253075
Why are there separate entries for laspistols and lascannons anon?

>>96253226
>(some) missions were 4 turns anon.
By that same coin only "some" missions use objectives in 3e (the defender in the istvaan mission just cares about kill points)

Are command cataphractii a trap?
>best melee unit for many legions
>cost a shitload
>can't score at all
>require a retinue slot

>>96253252
What you mean they can't score?

>>96253238
>>96253244
You're ignoring what I am saying.
Line now having a number behind it means anything with line(big number) is vastly superior to anything with line(lower number).

In 2e, scoring units were all 4 standard troop choices, recons, then funny with with banners etc.

in 3e, line(2) units are ONLY tacticals and despoilers.

An army with assault marines or breachers is at a huge disadvantage in 3e vs the army with tacticals/despoilers, as they are simply able to get more vp per turn, so you have to push them off objectives MORE than they are doing to you, just to keep up.

I am not bitching about 'you need tacticals' I am bitching that 'tacticals are fundamentally better than most other line units'.

>>96253252
Anon they're one of the best scoring high tier melee units, if want to sit on an objective and tell Vanguard and line units alike to fuck off you take a command squad (or lerneans)

>>96253283
They don't have Line or Vanguard, which means they have no way of scoring.

>>96253305
Anon a unit without line or Vanguard scores as normal

>>96253305
Anon... you need to work on your reading skills.
All units that aren't vehicles can claim objectives.
Line units increase how much VP you get.
Vanguard can only get 1 VP from claiming an objective, but get VP for kicking units off an objective.

>>96253292
>Line now having a number behind it means anything with line(big number) is vastly superior to anything with line(lower number).
Youre entirely missing the point. The difference between "line" and "no line" is now SMALLER than before because before the difference was between "score and dont score" whereas now its simply "score more and score less"

If you did not have line before you simply lost, whereas now you can win without line.

>>96253301

What is the best Lernean build now anyway? Hammers obviously, but do we go Combi-Bolters? Another flavour Combi like Volkite? Is the Conversion Beam worth picking up?

>>96253301
>if you properly equip them they're over 500 points
>if you poorly equip them then you have a 420-440 point squad running around with power weapons.

hmmm.

>>96253305
>>96253312
>>96253316
There's also support unit, which straight out caps VP earned as a downside

>>96253319
I never said anything about line vs non line you stinky nerd. I am specifically talking about line units in 3e vs line units in 2e, where it was very clear cut.

>whereas now you can win without line
I would be extremely surprised if an army without line units could win vs an army dropping line(2) units on objectives. They are scoring triple vp or more, and they can react off objectives to deny vanguard in almost all cases - sure you can suppress them or whatever, but you can't force multiple tests anymore, so its simply not reliable, outside of the weapons have have huge modifiers like phosphex.

>>96253321
Conversion beam cannons seem like a nobrainer now. Lets those lernaean throw out some spicy AP 3 or AP 2 blasts whilst camping an objective.

>>96253339
You literally did. "Line now having a number behind it means anything with line(big number) is vastly superior to anything with line(lower number)."

>>96251682 (OP)
Rapiers should be allowed into light transports

>>96253339
>They are scoring triple vp or more
They are scoring less than double, because objectives are worth multiple VP.

>>96253319

>Laughs in Pin (1)

Remind me, what's the Cool stat of a Tactical Squad again? After I've used Precision 4+ to kill the Sargeant?

>>96253324
>equip with hammers, they'll be quite good but cost 520 points for ten
>equip with power axes, they'll probably be shit, but 100 less points

HMMM!!

>>96253355
7 or 6 iirc.

>>96253328

Yeah... but the side objectives in pretty much every mission only give 1 out anyway. Also, all of this is ignoring the Master of Signals deciding someone is going to get Line (1) every turn.

>>96253348
bruh you can't read, where does that say anything about non line units?

>>96253352
Even where objectives are worth more than 1 vp, having line units with bigger number means they are scoring more vp per turn, per objective.

So again, both teams are trying to cap objectives and stop the enemy team from doing so, but the team with lower line(x) has to be holding more objectives to break even, let alone get ahead.

Its a fundamental change to how scoring works, and I am still not trying to argue whether its better or worse, simply that its very different. (It straight makes some units worse however).

>>96253339
>line units in 2e
Don't exist. There are scoring units, which were troops, and a big problem with 2e RoWs and toons is that you could select X unit as troops but only the mandatory slots were scoring and the rest weren't.

>>96253373
There were plenty of units that were troops but didn't have Line and couldn't claim objectives in 2.0

Did you even play that edition?

>>96253292
>OMG the enemy gains 5 points by having a tactical squad on the objective in the middle of the board!
The fucking stop him? That's the whole point of the game?
There is many, many, many ways to do so. Starting with having your own tacticals in the middle of the board
You don't like tacticals? Then bring something that can kill them instead?
Don't want to kill them either? Then bring status inflicting weapons and make them unable to hold the objective all together
Jesus fucking christ with this dumb ass argument.
I bet you haven't played a single game. You took one look at the rules and made up your mind

10 man veteran breacher squad with 4 lascutters and 6 power lances, in a Rhino
And
5 man Tartaros Siege Terminators with Plasma Blasters and Power Axes, with a Tartaros Biomancy Librarian in a Land Raider

I think it's neat. Expensive but neat.

>>96253388
Honestly do you even need the land raider for the tartaros? I know turn 1 transport charges are the new hot thing, but I feel spending half the points to counter charge turn 2 might be the better move

>>96253110
>Weaponized Autism
>vs
>>>96253127
>Autism Weaponized

>>96253373
>a big problem with 2e RoWs and toons is that you could select X unit as troops but only the mandatory slots were scoring and the rest weren't

This was a good thing, it disincentivised spamming mass terminators/vets without paying shitloads of points for extra heralds etc.
If anything, the ROW's that DIDN'T have that mandatory slot specification were the problem.

Again, I greatly prefer the game being shit loads of infantry... I just prefer it being shit loads of all types of infantry, not just tacticals and despoilers because they objectively score better now than other troops.

>>96253388
>Plasma Blasters
I think the siege terminators are kind of a meme. You are paying 50p to kill 3 MEQs instead of 2 with the combi-bolters...

>>96253344

My only concern was that the Conversion Beamer want's to be at range, whilst the rest of their Kit seems optimised for melee. Thunderhammers, access to Hatred (80% of every HH player you will ever meet) Line (1) so they do want to be on that point up the middle of the board.

Although the whole Hatred thing does raise a quandry, do we still want Thunder Hammers if they have that? I guess so because AP2, but it feels like we're paying for an ability that's of no real use? What exactly is in the game where you need to be Str7 with a +1 to wound? Dreadnaughts?

>>96253371
>Its a fundamental change to how scoring works
Yes, in that scoring is now a lot more egalitarian, instead of "these guys give you VP and you lose without them" and everyone else. You can now actually evaluate whether higher scoring power is worth lower combat performance.

>>96253403
>instead of 2 with the combi-bolters...
Combi bolters really got a stupidly huge buff this edition, specially at range. They are making most of the other combi weapon not worth it at all against MEQs and the ones that work against TEQ are a single shot so it's hard to compare them

>>96253381
Rein in the autism buddy, I have no idea what you are even trying to argue about.
Tacticals and despoilers have an objectively better ability to score than other basic troop options. This is a divergence from 2e, that incentivises tacs and despoilers over other said troops.

No one has said shit about tacticals being some god strategy, I am specifically saying they are simply better at scoring THAN OTHER TROOPS, and (me) in my personal opinion, enjoyed the game better when ALL basic troops were equally good at scoring.
You are the one swooping in to argue that my opinion on what I find more fun is wrong and I gotta enjoy 3e slop.

I see people talking about lerneans a ton but aren't crimson paladins also really good? EW1 line termies that get a fnp when outnumbered.

>>96253434
>power swords
>or +1 attack power swords
Trash

>>96253359

It's 7. So... drop that down to 6, and... as skill tests go, you are a Goblin in ToW who has just lost combat. And if one unit doesn't manage it? Then he'll hit you with the Vigilator. Or some Rotor Cannons. Or fuck he pulls out a Rapier with a Graviton Cannon, and that thing has Pinning (2) AND it will autopin the Rhino if you try that.

Scoring is important. But when literally every Status Condition means you physicallly CAN'T score, then Conditions suddenly ALSO become equally important.

As for how you mitigate that horseshit? Embedded leaders with high stats, or a Nuncio Vox so you can phone call your Emotional Support Chaplain.

...and you guys thought he was gonna be useless.

>>96253407
Im keeping axes because they look cool and building 5 combi bolters now...

>>96253439
>phone call your Emotional Support Chaplain
Don't forget that apothecaries are now status cleansing support frens, more than actually stopping damage.

>>96253441

You gonna upgrade them to Banestrikes, to see if they're worth 10 whole points just for Ap4 and Breaching 6+ and a loss of range?

>>96253407
Lernaean aren't going to be in melee all the time. You can't claim or contest objectives when locked in combat after all. And now that conversion beamers already get AP 3 at just over 15" you can just put the two lernaean with conversion beamers at the back of the unit and shoot with chargers too.

The hatred is real neat if you keep a few power axes, lets them wound MEQ on a 2+

should a cataphractii command squad use power axes or thunder hammers

>>96253427
>that incentivises tacs and despoilers over other said troops.
Yea, cuz having much more movement and deepstrike or an invulnerable saves, +1 to cool checks and a T5 reaction clearly isn't an incentive to take the others or anything
How about you try playing the game and see how many points your tacticals get you when they run off the objective from phosphex shelling? Or get pinned from snipers?

>>96253465
The general changes to make weapons more close range (far less weapons with more than 48 inch range, and conversion beamers generally just needing lower range to proc their better stats) is really weird.
I have always loved conversion beamers, but honestly the buffs make them kinda too good - in previous editions it was more work to keep targets in your optimal range, but now it just seems too easy.

>>96253483
Weapons having shorter ranges is a good thing if you ask me. If everything is 36"+ range there's almost no point to moving or measuring, because everything is always in range.

>>96253465
>You can't claim or contest objectives when locked in combat after all.
I keep forgetting this is a thing. Honestly this feels like something people worried about line camping should find easy to exploit. That seems so hard to try and avoid while also staying on objectives, especially since you can't just toe in, the number of models on the objective matters

>>96253481
>How about you try playing the game and see how many points your tacticals get you when they run off the objective from phosphex shelling? Or get pinned from snipers?
It is more vp than assault squads and breachers, because they score more, and jumppacks/T5 don't make your unit any better at dealing with status effects than basic tacticals.

>>96253496
Its better when you play with a board that actually has a reasonable amount of terrain, and objectives aren't just clustered in the middle of the board.

Also it makes more sense in the context of heavy weapons actually forcing snapshots in 2e, vs run and gun heavy weapons in 3e, so yeah, its definitely not a change in isolation.

>>96253483

I mean, if you really wanted two Conversion Beams, the Contemptor can just do that by himself, and it's not the dumbest idea to just have him chilling in the backline, throwing down Ap2 3" pie-plates on things.

Although the Saturnines version is genuinely crazy if you can get him up the board close enough to use it.

>>96253497
Yeah people crying and shitting themselves over line are just being retarded. Between locking in combat, status effects, or just killing them if you're struggling to kill a tactical squad you need to reconsider your life there's plenty of tools to shut down units with Line.

>>96253477
TH. Axes are pretty pointless now that everything with a 2+sv is 2W. And you can barely get 1 extra guy for the price of taking THs so it doesn't really compensate in volume of attacks either

>>96253477
CHAINFISTS. Leeroy Jenkins your opponent's superheavy. You know you want to. 10 chainfisters. Do it. Do it.

>>96253506
>>96253497
People keep saying 'just kill/status them' as if you're not doing that no matter what, just like the enemy is doing it to your units.

But if you're both status'ing each other, and both killing each others scoring units, the army with better scoring units is still at an advantage anons. There is nothing you're doing to the enemy that they can't also be doing to you.

>>96253498
>T5 don't make your unit any better at dealing with status effects than basic tacticals.
If you are going to bitch about Line troops at least read the full rules of the units you are bitching about
jfc

>>96253517

I keep forgetting that Heavy comes with upsides. It's +1 to Cool checks right?

>>96253510
>>96253514
>the army with better scoring units is still at an advantage anons.
No they aren't, because they're dead or fleeing because they're basic bitch tacticals while my breachers are holding the line because they're more durable and resistant to status effects. This is literally how I won my first game of 3rd, I just muscled onto the middle objective with breachers and blocked off his tacticals in rhinos with vindicators and the land raider with my Cataphractii Centurion and Terminators

>>96253517
You're right about the heavy unit type anon, I was mixing its bonus with the world eater one (which only applies to ld, not cool)

>>96253535
yes

>>96253514
But my line unit is lernaean. Good luck trying to stop them from scoring.

>>96253463
vs a volkite charger they come with? hell yeah

>>96253514
>There is nothing you're doing to the enemy that they can't also be doing to you
>Anon discovers this is a game with choices
That's where out playing your opponent comes in.

>>96253536
I'm really sad that breachers still can't take volkite after the legacy doc.
Veteran breachers are a very cool unit, but they fulfil an entirely different role since they are vanguard(3).

Speaking of vet squads,The vet HSS also seems extremely interesting, since they can mix special/heavy weapons. They're expensive, but thats arguably worth it since 2w on your expensive weapon models is pretty nice, especially if you have a apothecary to turn all those D2 weapons into D1 hits, so they'll handily win those HSS duels.

>>96253106
Past 40k also had multi-damage guns, and also multiple mental stats.

>>96253571
I'm gonna build a veteran HSS with disintegrator blasters and one with heavy disintegrators. Is it bad? Probably. Do I care? No.

>>96253571
My breachers have bolters and the MKIII strapped chainswords. what do I do?

>>96253581
Ain't no one going back to RT/2e 40k anon.
I miss my vortex grenade guardsmen though.

>>96253592
Either turn them into 'veteran' breachers, or you got some decorative chainswords now anon.
To be fair though, they'd be very unlikely to even get much benefit from chainswords even if they had access to them. A couple more lucky wounds on vets before they get turned into red mist, maybe.

The vet version has real potential for melee fuckery though, since 2 attacks, WS5, no more loss of 2 weapon bonus, and their innnate invuln means they really are proper tough little veteran fuckers on foot.

Wait, the destroyer sgt can take a phosphex bomb. Lmao. Destroyers are cracked, they are finally a war crimes unit.

>>96253625
They're absolute tactical deletion units now.
Run in, throw a phosphex bomb and a whole bunch of ap3 rad nades.
Volley fire their pistols at full BS to finish off the now T3 marines, and charge in if needed to mop up.
Repeat every single turn (phosphex isn't limited anymore).

>>96253646
>They're absolute tactical deletion units now.
Not even, theyll body veterans if they get their shots off. If it doesent have terminator armor its in for a bad time. Theyre fragile to shooting and weak-ish in close combat, but theyre more than capable of putting out a significant hurt on basically everything that isnt either some big automata fucker or wearing 2+ armor.

warhammer stores close at 7pm now? No wonder they changed it to this 4 turn dogshit.

>>96253680
Anon no one is playing HH in a GW, the tables aren't even big enough

>>96253685
Oh yeah, even more reason for GW to cancel it then. Imagine having people walk in and trying to sell them on getting into the hobby and having to tell them "oh, yeah you can't even play that overpriced game here"

>>96253685
The last GW store I went to didn't have tables. Literally just a storefront.

>>96253438
They can take up to two fists now. But yes, their damage output is low, they dont need damage output to be one of the most durable units in the game.

>>96253660
Maybe, but their output isn't THAT high, and those ap3 hits are all 1 damage, and rad nades are just a single attack, not blast or anything (and can't be used to volley fire). So if you don't wipe the vets, chances are they're gonna charge you and delete you with WS5 and power weapons.

>>96253721
>, but their output isn't THAT high
I did the maths a little bit ago. They deal upwards of 15 wounds to power armor even without things like the rad missiles or the phosphex bomb. You have a solid shot of just wiping out a 10 man vet unit in one turn worth of shooting.

>chances are they're gonna charge you and delete you with WS5 and power weapons.
Sure, its possible, theyre not very good in melee (even if you kit the sgt out), but whats left of the unit will first need to pass a panic(3) test vs the phosphex (thats what, LD6 for veterans?). Assuming there is something left, because there is a genuine outcome where there isnt.

>>96253750
Yeah, panic(3) is fucking nutty as hell.
MSU destroyer squads can just go out roaming and cuck scoring units hard with that.

What silly things can TS destroyers do though?

>>96253763
I feel like you'd get better investment out of a siege breaker in his Detachment DESU
Then again, why choose! Just take both! They're no longer hogging the same elite slot

>>96253680
Didn't know they even let you play at GW stores still

>>96253763
Yup, also deep strike. And since they CAN wipe a unit out in shooting a unit of 10 destroyers dropping in to wipe out your tacticals on an objective is absolutely a play you need to watch out for (same for angels tears btw, those dudes are just nastier destroyers for +5ppm)

>>96253777
Honestly? They dont really benefit from anything. Sure rending is nice but they already wound super well. Cant rend with phosphex since its a blast. Maybe some durability powers to not die to a stiff breeze? But really they benefit most from either a defensive legion trait like IH/RG or something like EC/WE/NL for that final bit of punch to actually let them finish something off in melee.

Been busy all day. Did my DG destroyers survive? Do I finish painting them or retire them?

>>96253781
because the destroyers are also chucking up to 9 ap3 phage(T) rad grenades on top of the phosphex bomb, plus full BS volley fire with akimbo volkite, and can get points from vanguard.

3e is finally where destroyers actually seem worth the points, instead of just using them for fun.

>>96253792
The time of the destroyer is upon us anon, rejoice.
Destroyers are now officially the bombchucka squad.
See
>>96253799
>>96253750
>>96253646

>>96253781
>siege breaker
The problem with rapiers is that they are made of paper and the quad launchers only have 24" range. They are very good for bombing the mid field objectives from cover but probably not the ones on your opponent's deployment area. For that deepstriking destroyers sound really good

>>96253799
Rad missile launchers also look busted as hell. Two shots, and the assault trait.

>>96253792
Mortis poisoners? Yea theyre still a thing. Destroyers with two alchem flamer pistols? Dont think thats a thing, they dont pick from the legions pistol list, they just take double volkite serpenta flat.

>>96253828
Unless those are hand flamers, in which case "yes", you can take them.

>>96253822
Destroyers are also made of paper. A kitted out destroyer is a 20/23ppm tactical marine in terms of durability. Theyre an incredibly glass cannon unit. Rapiers melt to heavy weapons, but destroyers melt to boltgun shells.

>>96253799
>3e is finally where destroyers actually seem worth the points, instead of just using them for fun.
Wow, who would have thought reworking pistols and charging and scoring to all make the destroyer role more viable ended up potentially making them work. Wouldnt have been me.

>>96253792
They can't take alchem pistol I'm afraid. But the basic rules are pretty good.
With the rad grenades even basic flamer pistols look like they could hurt a lot

>>96253788
The only real downside I see to destroyers rn is their short range: 10" on volkite, 12" on bolt, 8" on Rad Grenades and 6" on Phosphex Bombs.

So definitely something you need to keep in mind and play around your opponent probably wanting to keep you at least 7" away where possible.

Rad Missiles, however, make up for this a bit being 24" range, 2 shots AP3 and Poisoned 2+ (instead of fleshbane)

>>96253858
Sounds like destroyers with jump packs are the perfect unit to put a master of descent in.

>>96253855
How many hits would you say a flamer template gets? 3? So thats 6 hits per destroyer, 60 hits total, 30 wounds, 10 unsaved wounds (assuming theyre phaged). Its actually even better than volkite (assuming you can get 3 hits per template, which is harder)

Do not underestimate the power of rolling a phases worth of dice at a problem.

>>96253858
Fleshbane isnt a thing any more afaik.

>>96253868
>bitter duty
About that...

But yea, either have them have jetpacks (maybe even drop them in) or you put them in a transport of some sort.

What are people's thoughts on the indomitus terminator rules?
For an extra 30pts over cataphractii, indomitus get a 4+ invuln and the shield trait, without the heavy subtype, so they are FAR harder to cuck out of charges and such.

>>96253850
Honestly the main change that benefited destroyers was none of those, it was giving every model ap3 shooting, unlimited use phosphex with a huge panic bonus, and phage being actually useful.

>>96253871
Yeah thats probably why the missiles are poisoned 2+ now

>>96253884
The rad grenades are worse than the volkites! You do more damage with the serpentas than you do with the rad grenades, and you fire the pistols twice per turn. Maybe naked destroyers with bolt pistols and grenades are going to put more emphasis on the grenades, but it really is a bit of a trap actually (maybe as an initial volley vs thallax?

Phosphex being insane certainly helped, as did the phage changes, but really a lot of things came together. The change to FOC meant that theyre no longer in the super cramped elites slot competing with rapiers, veterans every legion elite and the beyond busted dreads, which also helped them. The change to scoring means theyre now powerful beyond their ability to deathmash, their role of "power armor bullies" is actually both valuable and rewarded. Volley fire lets them make use of their pistol firepower reliably without worrying about just getting charged and beaten by someone with power weapons.

>>96253884
They cost less. They have power fists by default.
They do have Heavy tho
And loosing combibolters is much bigger than before since they have a stupid amount of shots now
I'd say they are balanced. Deffinitely not the autopick from before since they are not troops now

>>96253884
>without the heavy subtype

>>96253903
>You do more damage with the serpentas than you do with the rad grenades, and you fire the pistols twice per turn.
You do more damage throwing grenades and then using the serpentas after the enemy has phage

>>96253916
Yea, the grenades increase your future damage, but the AP3 isnt why youre using them (weirdly enough). You can just throw a couple (or better yet, fire the missile launcher) and then fire the rest as pistols, maximize your deeps.

>>96253924
>Destoryer missile launcher is assault
Fucking hell
Don't even need to bother with the rad grenades at all

>>96253884
They dont seem very good. An indomitus terminator with shield and hammer is just an objectively worse cata terminator now, same profile except you dont get your 4 bolter shots.
I guess theyre cheaper than tartaros terminators with fists/hammers? but those arent heavy.

>>96253914
I am retarded.

what about the ultramarines or world eaters special destroyers?

should the smurfs still use their boltguns due to panic?

>>96253935
They don't have slow and purposeful and they are a bit cheaper than catas with good melee weapons. They are balanced I think They don't need to take the shields on every model either

>>96253931
They finally live up to their supposed lore as the "warcrimes division", putting out a scary amount of firepower using nasty weapons.

>>96253939
Nemesis destroyers are basically tacticals now. They lack any special rules and just have panic(0) bolters with range 18.

Red hand destroyers are a more melee oriented destroyer variant that can take more close combat weapons and gets a free +1 to combat res. Not sold on the smurfs, but the WE ones seem pretty good, rad them on the way in, beat them up in melee.

>>96253939
>should the smurfs still use their boltguns due to panic?
As funny as a unit of 20 destroyers all chucking rad grenades are, I don't think they are as good as the normal ones with the serpentas desu. And you are forced to take 10 minimum so it's not like having them with a missile launcher at range is very reasonable either
Panic (1) is all nice and good but there's other ways to get it

>>96253939
They seem pretty good, not as shooty but a lot punchier in melee.

>>96253939
>>96253967
The UM ones don't have Firestorm, just for that they are less than half the firepower of normal destroyes with bolt pistols.
18" boltguns is not that big of a range advantage either

>>96253967
Hell, get within 6" and chuck Panic (3) Phosphex bombs at them (of which your sgt has an unlimited supply now)

>>96253971
The ultramarine destroyers dont seem great. Worse in melee, no vanguard, not really any cheaper and with a lower total damage output. I get theyre shootier overall and have decent pressure with the harrower bolters thanks to panic, but I feel like for the cost and slot you can find better options.

Wait can I run an excindio in any drop pod?

Kinda wanna make a list based around just that

Just played a game of 2.0 with my buddy at 4k points. We both brought a super-heavy tank, our primarchs, and I brought my newly painted brass scorpion. Anyone interested in a narrative battle report?

>>96253986
I think you need the dread transport one

>>96253988
Sure. .

>>96253981
yea, the bolters are kinda pointless
Destroyers are pretty much glass cannons. THey don't get to sit at 18" and shoot at you with bolters. They either disembark or deepstrike and make their points back in one round of shooting or they are not going to be worth it

Does anyone have the 2.0 gofile for those of us who are sticking with that edition?

>>96253931
Oh shit, didn't even notice.
MFW the missile chad can rad rocket 4 people per turn.

>>96253986
The dread drop pod can only transport Walkers and the normal one only infantry so no, I don't think you can

>>96253988
Man for a moment I thought those DG were Traitor RG

>>96253985
They do have access to Grav Guns for pinning, however.

Meaning the Squad can drop Panic, Pinning and Phage on a unit. But absolutely no special rules is a weird choice 100%

>>96253988
Playing crucible of war from Siege of Cthonia, DG going first. DG deployed very defensively and AL infiltrated the Fellblade and Kratos to encircle their forces while still keeping some cover from the scary falchion

>>96254004
10 man squad, 2 missiles, 8 of them a turn mmmm radiation poisoning

>>96254007
>>96253991
still sick. I guess can't do dreadclaw?

>>96254027
dreadclaw has the same Walker requirement

>>96254021
Turn one starts, phosphex rapiers take their toll on the AL tacticals hunkering down on their objective. The falchion manoeuvred into position and blasted the might of the sun at the AL venator, who promptly popped the AL advanced reaction to teleport six inches to the right.

The AL respond by hitting a DG siege breaker running solo behind the tanks with a hail of sniper fire (though DG pops their own advanced reaction to get out of the line of fire). The venator blasts the Falchion, completely destroying their optics, while the Scorpion scuttles forward. The AL tacticals press on towards the center objective with a forgelord in tow keeping control of the beast.

>>96253971
They lose vanguard for no reason which sucks.
They're more expensive than destroyers without being actually better, they just get more options.

>>96254043
They did the same to Dark Sons of Death - kinda weird?

>>96254039
Turn 2, Alpharius activates Preferred Enemy (everything) on all infantry.

The DG push forward, grave wardens bombarding the grove with toxin canisters while the DG Kratos takes out a huge chunk of the AL one, achieving a mobility kill and locking it in place for the rest of the game. In a flash of blinding light, mortarion and a host of Deathshroud appear in the AL backlines, hunting for Alpharius.

>>96254043
>They lose vanguard for no reason which sucks.
That's arguably a benefit
They cost the same as other destroyers as far as I can see

>>96254067
The AL respond by urging the scorpion onto the falchion (though not before it annihilates a flanking skyhunter squad in a hail of fire). As it rushes forward the crew of the Falchion in a moment of terminal lucidity fire a searing beam of light through the beast's thorax, leaving it severely crippled.

Mortarion, angered by the weakness of his bodyguards, appears from the shadows and engages Alpharius in a deadly duel.

>>96254083
>the backwards shoulders on the contemptor
huh?

>>96254039

>>96253988
>primarchs
>superheavies
Holy fucking lame

>>96254083
That falchion does increasing psychological damage the longer I look at it.

>>96254104
You're gay

>>96253244
3.0 is retarded slop you just like it so you dont understand this

>>96254083
In turn three, the Arcus manoeuvres around to come in aid to the falchion, blowing through the armor panels of the scorpion until it detonates in a catastrophic reactor meltdown, damaging every vehicle nearby and blowing half of a nearby tactical squad to shreds.
The Deathshroud fight their way through the towers, demolishing a sniper squad an losing one of their members to the defiant last stand of an AL command legionnaire.

Meanwhile, heavily weakened by a salvo of banestrike slugs from Alpharius's Effrit cadre, Mortarion finally succumbs to the Pale Spear and the flurry of power daggers, securing a great Victory for the AL.

>>96254125
Why are you still here?

>>96254109
no u

>>96254126
Turn 4 concludes with the DG remnants being slaughtered by the AL, though a simple DG champion escapes after having challenged and beaten in single combat a Contemptor during turn 3 and a a terminator ForgeLord.

Overall some poor deployment choices led to the Falchion and deathstar weathering some pretty serious firepower before being able to really do anything.
Also preferred enemy is insanely strong, and Alpharius isn't as bad of a duelist as expected.

Have a final shot of some effrit cowering under the Volkite death beam flying over their heads

>>96254126
Power daggers can't even wound Mortarion, they're always strength 3 and mortarion is toughness 7. You fucking cheating cunt.

>>96254136
ok pardo

>>96254197
pardo won

>>96254183
I know, they weren't used gamewise.
However I find it hard to believe narrative wise the effrit would just stand around doing nothing.

The real impact they had was forcing a ton of ap2 saves on mortarion in overwatch

>>96254126

>>96254073
The foot version is the same price, but the jumppack version (i.e. the better one) is more expensive. 100pt base and +18 ppm for the regular jump destroyers, vs 110pt and 20pt ppm for the WE ones. Not a huge difference, but still, its something, and no vanguard points.

They get +1 combat res though, I guess?

Is there a reason to not go full autocannon on siege tartars besides the fact that you're stuck to one pose?

was the book and flame used as the icon for the Imperial Heralds too, or was that adopted after the recovery of Lorgar?

>>96254277
They're not particularly good.
15pts for the reaper AC, which is a straight downgrade to a normal AC. Lower range, lower strength, everything else is the same.
Or to put it more accurately, its a volkite culverin with lower range, less shots, no breaching or deflagrate. I'm honestly not sure what the reaper is actually good for in this edition.

So unless you really, REALLY want to use them as a medium-long range shooty squad, you're better off spamming plasma blasters for higher breaching and S8 instead of S6.

>>96253914
>regular termies can't get power weapons
fuck off then

>>96254174
>bayonet attached to the arm
oh damn that's a cool idea.

>>96254358
Same as last edition anon

>>96254380
oh.
okay I feel better then, thank you.

>>96254363
quick, somebody glue 3 bayonets on the back of a hand. I need to know if they look like lightning claws.

>>96254393
No, glue three bayonets on an arm but like hanging off the arm like it's a wing made of blades.

>>96254402
Go lurk in a corner corax

>>96254393
>>96254402
>>96254418
>Curze, Corax, and Perturabo at the Mk6 Lightning Claw pitch meeting

>>96254421
>Konrad: Dislikes - People's Knees, Cover your Knees up if you're gonna be walking around everywhere (puts bayonets on knees)

>>96254421
>Wrist knives
>Elbow knives
>WRIST knives
>ELBOW knives
>WRIST KNIVES
>ELBOW KNIVES
>foot knives?
>Shut up, Khan

now that i think about it anyone has seen bayonets converted into combat knifes?

>>96254442
I though about using combat knives to represent bayonets, but no.

>>96254442
get chainsword with hand
Remove chainsword bit/hand guard
Glue on bayonet blade

Das it.

>>96254421
Roboute walks in: complains because it uses parts outisde the STC box, then offers to sell a modified STC box

>get an idea for a fluffy list
>can't fit enough fluffy shit in the points allowance

FUCK.

>>96254083
>The DG Legionnaire on the right with a single green shoulder and a single plain one.
This kind of thing is so confusing to me. Did the player just get bored half way through painting his model and put the brush down? Let alone the fact every model of theirs is 30% painted at best.
Good battle report though, AL Anon :)

>>96254594
Its a design choice nerd, it looks like he did them all that way.

>>96254126
Great report. Good stuff. A lot of jealous anons in this thread trying to be detractors.

>>96254594
Thanks anon :)

iirc all his tacs only have the legion icon pauldrons green, he paints his models extremely slowly so I don't know if that's the end goal. He's a good painter when he actually finishes a model, I just wish he would sit down and finish his army.

>>96254629
>iirc all his tacs only have the legion icon pauldrons green
If it is stylistic than I shall hush my mouth. Regardless, good report and good game! It's lovely having seen you paint up your brass scorpion in previous threads and have it in use here.
Was this 3.0? How did you find it?

>>96254700
This was a final game of 2.0 while we work out some 3.0 lists.

I have tried out some challenges though, our local group did a ton to get familiar with the system and not have it slow down games - I don't think they're a super great addition to the game, we all quickly figured out finishing blow is just far and ahead the best gambit, with the others having niche uses

I also played a 2k earlier this week to get familiar with 3.0. I like bringing armor and unfortunately it seems kind of oppressive this edition, you really can't skimp out on bringing dedicated anti tank.

Also statuses are insane and a master of signals seems almost mandatory.

All things considered its pretty fun and I like the changes to reactions but everything related to terrain and line of sight is pretty shit so we're already drafting houserules for it.

>>96254814
> I like bringing armor and unfortunately it seems kind of oppressive this edition, you really can't skimp out on bringing dedicated anti tank

The changes they did to dreads in 2e led to this exact problem, and GW has double downed on it by effectively doing the same thing with vehicles proper. There is very little you can do to reduce the effectiveness of vehicles short of completely destroying them - all the actual AT weapons have terrible or no chance to cause status effects due to being glance gated.

I genuinely don't know what GW made this change, it seems a straight downgrade to the game.

>>96252395
Dude really has 0 range and it works for him

>>96251856
Does the BA army rule even help them against any infantry? Maybe against light vehicles and dreads? I want to like Ofanim because their lore and flexible modeling are pretty cool, but even in 2.0 it was hard justifying their presence on the tabletop.

Am I blind or the Atramentar sheet do not state which unit type is?

>>96255064
It's right there anon. You are indeed blind.

>>96255045
Without the BA rule they wound on 3+ against T5; with the BA rule, they wound on 2+ against T5.

"Saturn, sleep on! O thoughtless, why did I
Thus violate thy slumberous solitude?
Why should I open thy melancholy eyes?
Saturn, sleep on! while at thy feet I weep.”

>>96251771
I mean the unrealistic part is step 3, everything else is make believe

>>96255126
maybe your country is just poor

>>96251521
Just print a non shit one

>>96255210
610 billion USD, GDP.
More to the point, it's surprising that the stores haven't gotten the memo yet that the new box is DOA, since they've only managed to sell one box in a week.
I fully expect it to go on sale soon, which is when I'm going to snag a couple.

>>96255223
too bad the guy who made this died

>>96251937
Looking great anon, I love these

>>96253244
Goyim, the medium size fries only exists to make the other choices look better, you're not supposed to buy them.

>>96255229
It's ok the stl is all over reddit

I've got plenty of Line and plenty of AT - I don't really have dedicated MEQ and TEQ deleters - what do I bring?

>>96255281
For 3+ saves MEQ Destroyers are looking to be THE glass cannons to bring to delete them in short order.

>>96255070
I thought about the terminator armor type

>>96255331
>2+ 5++
>Implacable Advance, but no Slow and Purposeful or whatever Cataphractii have

Since we're quiet, post models you're working on or recently finished.

>>96255331
There is no description of terminator armor in wargear anymore. It's just a combination of certain armor and an invulnerable save and additional special rules like Heavy, Slow and Purposeful, and Implacable Advance. Just like with jump packs.

>>96252736
It's FotM, not even the worst horses we've had to deal with.

>>96252331
MYSTERY NIGGAS

>>96255375
Based my not!Zardu

>>96251682 (OP)
Might be a dumb question but I can't find the Praetor's 'master of the legion' special rule anywhere? am I crazy

>>96255417
Start of the liber. It's a trait, not a real rule, so something has to key off it

>>96255423
what the fuck lol
so the centurions give me two detachments each cos of officer of the line (2) and praetors just basically give and extra reaction point, and access to an apex detachment? am I doin it right

>>96255375
finished putting together the falchion
it was fine until I got to the treads
>inb4 why did you smear shit all over it

The Delegatus giving a second Apex detachment opens so many options.
I've gone back to the drawing board on so many of my lists now.

>spend like 2 hours fiddling with a mechanicum list
>took me 15 minutes to throw together a marine army
marine players don't actually find their list building to be difficult right?

>>96251682 (OP)
>Legacy losers?
Literally unplayable

>>96255447
How was the build anon? Falchion is my favorite super heavy so I'll get one eventually.

Also why'd you smear shit all over it?

>>96255461
where is this rule located I can't find it i'm retarded -_-

>>96255473
It's on his datasheet, silly.

>>96255468
It's not difficult, but it's pointless complexity. I don't see what this type of force org system adds to the game vs the old system. If they wanted to split out roles, they could have easily done that with the old system.

>>96255478
I think people go with a top down approach and get overwhelmed
just pick the units you want to take then try to find the most efficient combination of characters to minimize the amount of detachments

>>96255476
OHHHH is that from the Legends shit they released today?? that makes so much sense

>>96255472
hull went together like a dream minus the rear track armor which had to be forced in
the tracks themselves were a nightmare and it took me about as much time fitting it together as the rest of the build

>>96255483
Yes.
The Legends also brought with it some pretty nice Veteran squads so I've been changing a lot of my lists to have a Vanguard to fit them in.

>>96252593
What do you mean by burning the prime slot? Ally detachments only have command slots, not high command, also unique characters cant take the special asignment prime benefit that lets them be taken in a command slot, they can only take logistical benefit, which also cannot take high command.

>>96255484
Yeah, i always hear the tracks suck.
I'm sure they'll make a plastic version eventually, but the resin fellblade looks better than what we've seen of the plastic one.

>>96255482
That's all it boils down to, is my problem with it. List building really is just "take whatever you want, but play silly games of shuffling through what will inevitably be an ever growing list of detatchments to minimize centurion tax, and maximize prime spam.

HH-bros:
If ordering from Germany is an option for you, the online store here is having some deep discounts on some HH stuff:

https://www.radaddel.de/solar-auxilia-valdor-tank-destroyer

https://www.radaddel.de/mechanicum-triaros-armoured-conveyor

LeakerAnon!

You stole GWs property, leaked it online, incited drama, publicly shamed Padro, disgraced the Heresy community, set the community in flames, and...

You have saved us all.

Is there a list of base sizes for horus heresy legacies stuff?

I wanna make some effrit models but i'm not sure if I put them on 32mm or 28mm.

I was just gonna get a box of scouts and add on legion pauldrons and helms

>>96255607
hope he sees this lil bro but you dont have to glaze him every 12 hours

I need to source some Destroyers now for my IW.
They look worth running.

got the core profiles written up for the legions and wondering if to knock out the militia, SA and mechanicum stuff or jump straight to the legion journals we're planning. It's taken about a week to sort out some 40+ profiles so to do the other factions is probably a month but guys at the LGS probably want to jump in with full legion rules sooner.

>>96255607
One man can make a difference

Is indomitus terminator armor the mark V of Terminator armors?

>>96255711
Didn't use to be, but it seems they're really trying to push it.

>>96255711
not really, it is more like the mark seven just the lowest maintenance and most economic design for the post-heresy Imperium.

>Melee weapons kit comes with 2 (two) left-handed volkite serpentas
>Legion Sky Hunters kit comes with 3 (three) left-handed volkite serpentas
>No source of plastic right handed ones
Really gonna make building 10 Assault Destroyers a pain in the dick.

>>96255735
As much as I like plastic I'm just going 3d print for mine.

>>96255735
If you were suppose to make Legends units, they would've put them into the Libers.

>>96255746
Do you have a printer or are you gonna buy some from a vendor? I've been looking around trying to find ones that look close to authentic.

>rhino spam is required to win now due to the retarded new ways line works that make no narrative sense

FUCK.

>>96255735
>>96255746
pretty sure the cheapest way would be to buy recast Angel's Tears

>>96255767
Even those are looking like around $40 squad from BLM.
Do I really want to spend $80 just to get the guns I need for this?
Hmm.

>>96255711
Probably just less of a pain in the dick to manufacture and maintain relative to the needs of other patterns between both SM and CSM later on while still being sufficient; tech on both sides declining also includes firepower and not just armor. But there seems to be plenty of third-party sculpts to give them Mk5-style helmets and details pushing the poverty terminator angle, or at least less 'clean'.

By virtue of Space Hulk, isn't it also implied to be fitted out with sensory equipment? I imagine that could've been a more interesting angle to differentiate it from other Terminator patterns with some sort of special equipment rule.

800 pts short so far

Seems that the Warsmith can't take a retinue on NR, as I was going to put Dominators in there and also open up the Hammer of Olympia detachment for some Siege Tyrants (not sure if they're currently worth it) and Cataphractii. Also, obviously the pdf isn't on there yet - was going to just put some Cata in at Dominator price equivalent, but maybe I can't take them if I don't take a Praetor instead?

>>96251704
Can a tartaros siege squad use 5 assault cannons?

>>96255769
try darkminiatures instead

>>96255765
care to elaborate?
how do rhinos factor in here

>>96255784
Forgot my main question - what would you add, if not the Dominators & Tyrants?

>>96255786
seems like it

>>96255786
>>96255801
nvm it's Reaper autocannon only

>>96255790
Oh, that's way better, they have the guns as their own thing.
Thanks, anon.

>>96255786
Of course not. Only BA cataphractii armour can swap out their heavy flamer for Iliastus assault cannon, because that's the only one FW made models for.

>>96255832
*cough*

>>96255860
Now all you need to do is find the 3.0 rules allowing that.

>>96255752
Vendor

>>96254092
Pretty sure the shoulders on the contemptor are on backwards. The brackets should face forwards

SOH deredo

>>96252794
>>96255872
Duality of anons

SOH deredo built

I play word bearers and iron hands, what does that say about me?

>>96255927
>anon, this dude’s a real chaos simp and tech-obsessed autist rolled into one. He’s out here flexing with the Word Bearers’ heretical zeal and dark sorcery, but also rocking the Iron Hands’ cybernetic upgrade meme like a true techpriest. total chaos/tech hybrid, manifests as “revered heretic with a servo-arm” energy. he’s probably the guy spamming “FOR THE EMPEROR” while secretly plotting chaos rituals behind the scene. absolute madlad, playing both sides but really just trying to meme his way to victory. kek, what a fucking legend.

>>96255943
Thanks gpt.

>>96255893
>anon asks a question about rules
>"who cares, just do whatever, man"
Nice. Really answered anon's question.

>>96255819
only think is the shipping time is egregious

where are the boxes gw?

>>96255711
>our customers keep installing the cataphract shoulder pads wrong despite us supplying them with pictures
>fuck it, design one with a single piece they can't possibly fuck up

Now that we know that legacies are dao, how long will it take from the community to adopt His edition?

>please remember about literally who from youtube

>>96255784
>>96255798
Pls respond

I keep reading the novels instead of painting, fuck.

>>96256031
sorry, macca
I literally started 30k because of your how to get started series, but you burned me (and I assume many other genuine fans) with your constant bitching and moaning, and dumping nothing but crappy salty outrage bait videos.
I don't care what positive/ constructive shit you're claiming to be working on now, you can get bent.

>>96256031
I don't care about the ramblings of Evil Valrak.

>>96256072
>fat zelenskyy

>>96256031
Can't play rules that will never exist.

>>96255045
Yea, just not on ophanim.
Dawnbreakers wound on 2s thanks to it (for example). Wont do much for power fists but that was always the case.

Ophanim seem fine, not insane but I dont think you would feel bad taking them. Theyll struggle with 2+ armor or "massed wounds" but theyre good at getting some alpha-strike damage in and can all duel surprisingly well, can definetly give a centurion a scare.

>>96255786
>Can a tartaros siege squad use 5 assault cannons?
No. Theyre no longer a swap from heavy flamers, but instead specifically a heavy weapons option. So you need access to the generic heavy weapons list.

>>96256031
Buy an ad, faggot

>>96256092
>and can all duel surprisingly well
Case in point: theyre actually favored vs a centurion (non-terminator/cata) with a thunder hammer/fist. I think.
They go first (even with finishing blow) on average, and deal 2 wounds on average, taking 1.5 back, they can then finish with the 2nd round. Its not a given by any means but its a very scary perfromance for essentially "the rank and file" of a unit, you can have one accept a challenge for your other characters and not feel bad either way.

Their only real issue (besides being bad into terminators) is that theyre very weak to lascannons and similar shooting.

Are terror squads pure shit now?

>>96256136
Yes, completely useless. There's just no point to playing NL this edition with how shit their rules are.

>>96256031
Go back to chasing twinks, macca

>>96256147
>deep striking command terminators with a praetor
>panicking enemies with phosphex quad mortars before charging them with assault squads or night raptors for sweet WS5/WS6
>shit rules

LOL

>>96256136
They arent any worse than in 2.0 (they basically cant be).
I dont think theyre very good, especially compared to say destroyers who end up just packing a LOT more of a punch for a similar cost/durability (theyre also faster).
Terror squads do have some things going for them, namely theyre flexible, troops, and have fear(1) which you want to spread out because the LD debuff is very valuable for NL this edition.
They arent as good as grey slayers (those are criminally undercosted for what they do, 100% the best troops in the game) but they can still do some work, good choice for a budget rhino-rush too. They can mix and match what weapons they take so you can take say, 1 flamer, 2 rotots, 7 glaives and have a pretty solid melee unit (even if its made of paper and is kinda pricy).

The lack of innate infiltrate hurts their utility and theyre still overpriced, but wounding on 2s with power weapons isnt bad, and if they get the legion trait off (which realistically isnt out of the question) they can absolutely assfuck anything in the price range and even punch up.

Theyre not great, or even particularly good, but they seem usable.

>>96256147
lel

>>96256172

Them losing Infiltrate baffles me. Like, for what reason? Not as much as the out and out removal of Night Assaults, but it's on the list of dumb things. I don't think NL's got hit the worse out of everyone in this edition, but they're definitely one of the losers.

>>96255957
>Just gag on daddy GWs cock
>Or play the game as intended without GWs corporate bullshit
ez clap

>>96256217
Apology accepted.

>>96255769
Some recasters just have the weapons in their catalog

>>96256230
Apology accepted

>>96256163
>add hundreds of points of combo pieces needed to make your legion have a legion trait
Those are shit rules, alright.
Not as bad as dark angels, but very middle of the pack.

>sicaran punisher main gun is suppressive 2
>effrit make you roll 3d6 drop the lowest for a supressed check

could this combo work? seekers are also a solid option but I like the tank, its also S6 and 16 shots if it doesnt move for only 170pts

>moritat still can't take melee
>no bitter duty but description says they can be together with the war crimes squad
Which is it, James. Do I need bitter duty or not?

>>96256031
FAGGOT NEEDS AND AD FAGGOT NEEDS AN AD
AND HIS SIMPS POST IT FOR FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>96255797
They get you to the points turn one.
If you get enough of a points lead you mathematically can't lose.

>>96256278
circle edition is going to be better than 3.0
it's a low fucking bar

>>96255647
Fr this.

>>96256298
>3+++ iron hands
It's going to be impressively worse

>>96256283
>Rush your line units to the points turn one
>Opponent kills your line units
>Put his own line units on the points
>You no longer have line units
Brilliant.

>>96256283
JUST LIKE FUCKING TENTH EDITION EXCEPT WORSE

>>96256298
Lmao at this DISGUSTING FAGGOT JANNY (HE POSTS AND RESPONDS TO COMMENTS ... FOR FREE).

>>96256298
Of course, it's the same reason 2D women are better than 3D women. Because they aren't real.

>>96256305
> Take 6 to 8 line units
> Rush 4 to 6 forward to take all his objectives and literally take up space so he can't maneuver well enough to push you back until turn two or three, meaning he scores less than half of the objectives
Yeah that's how you win now.
> Ib4 vanguard
Hope you brought enough (you probably brought one or two units, they are the other guys public enemy number one and every gun shoots them, every turn)

>>96256305
>rush breachers to objectives
>rush terminators to objectives to back them up
>rush vanguard units, supported by melee beatstick characters, at enemy's backline objective(s)
>have tactical squads advance on foot towards objectives while breachers and termies take the initial punishment

EZ PZ

>>96256324
>Breachers
>Heavy subtype
>Rush
Lmao

>>96256283
>>96256323
>"hey guys, buy HH 3.0, we're aware that this is a narrative game with a narrative minded community so we're gonna lean even harder into the narrative!"
>rules release
>40k objectives that make no sense narratively

>>96256323
>Acting like it is difficult to kill tactical marines

>>96256324
>Acting like it is difficult to kill tactical marines with a 5+ invulnerable

>>96255265
Shut up and take more Centurions

>>96256312
>FOR FREE
a cruel fate of being a janny

>>96255281
Conversion beamers seem pretty good. Dual contemptor or predator both work I think

>>96256335
Breachers can fit in rhinos now :)

>>96256354
19" isn't enough to get on an objective t1 your opponent placed if they don't want you to

>>96256338
>he doesn't know about the Shield or Heavy traits

>>96256371
>Shield wall
>Thinks +1 toughness against shooting matters
>Heavy trait
>Thinks +1 to Cool matters when they're dead
Those things are only relevant if your opponent is a bigger retard than you and only brought bolters to kill infantry lmao

For MY edition we will be bringing back long and short range accuracy modifiers for weapons and contest based close combat. Range modifiers will allow more differentiation between similar types of weapon, and contest based melee will eliminate the need for a conplicated challenge mechanic while bogging down the assault phase just as much. Also charging will be done in the movement phase, don't @ me about this, I just don't like units moving outside the phase that is designated for moving.

>>96256403
>spending valuable support slots on infantry killing weapons when you could be using them for rapier laser destroyers because every HH player is a tankfag

Sad!

>>96256274
Everyone knows moritats should have bitter duty. It's like if the Praetor couldn't get a Paragon blade

>>96256417
>TOW but 30k
couldn't be much worse than what GW came up with for hh3

>>96256419
Vehicles can't claim or contest objectives. You can easily ignore them and get a free win.

>>96256419
Everyone who thinks spamming laser rapiers is the new meta is retarded

>Firestorm. But armed with fucking bolt pistols
>Veterans can take far more disintegration than they can
>Veterans can take AP2 disintegrators while they are locked to the shit AP3 version
Destroyers suck. They suck even harder than they did before (4A -> 2A), which is a fucking achievement.
What other pdf are we supposed to wait on now?

>>96256446
>ignore vehicles while they slaughter your infantry and ram them off objectives

Nice try, tankfag

>>96256446
>Bailiff, cast Demolisher cannon on that man's balls

Siege Tartaros are very interesting. Can there be siege Cataphractii? Like 1.0 Fulmentarii or 2.0 Varagyr, but generic

>>96256454
You have impressive levels of retardation anon even for /hgg/

Anyone got a starting list someone could use for HH 3.0 based off the age of darkness box that isn't pure shit?

>>96256472
And you are wielding two bolt pistols. You don't scare me.

>>96256457
Ram doesn't force enemy models to move or cause a morale test any more. It's a hilarious D6 str 6 hits, nothing more.
And tanks can't kill infantry fast enough to stop them from scoring,
... unless you invested so much points in tanks that you have a minimum amount of units with line, the thing that started all this.

>>96256458
>What is 2" unit coherency

>>96256469
>imagine TS cata guys with covidae autocannons in 4++
nah anon, lets not go there

>>96256486
Coherency disappears whenever you actually want to shoot and you are forced do to a shoulder-to-shoulder semicircle because you want everyone to be shooting from max range.
It would be a bad move, but at least half the players would stack their minis on top of each other if they could

>>96256247
Sure, but you know what else is suppressive(2)? A 40pts rapier.

Can a Warsmith with a servo skull actually fail an Int test? Even if he rolled a 12, the score would be lowered down to 10. Maybe you need a high IQ to play iron Warriors and throw your men at walls lmao

HH 3.0 AoD Rulebook Raw
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:bvkv4k7yohqdg4rr6ys7t3lkujvterda&dn=HH%203.0%20AoD%20Rulebook%20Raw.pdf&xl=249771097&fc=1

HH 3.0 Liber Astartes Raw
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:pi4wtfms4bs2ckolvvuycx47vyvajx56&dn=HH%203.0%20Liber%20Astartes%20Raw.pdf&xl=185773119&fc=1

HH 3.0 Liber Hereticus Raw
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:thm72vtcxk5sm46m65irn3j3qtstwmna&dn=HH%203.0%20Liber%20Hereticus%20Raw.pdf&xl=205029541&fc=1

HH 3.0 Liber Auxilia Raw
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:fcqjojdpiattdhuqcqr2id4kpmkrxnik&dn=HH%203.0%20Liber%20Auxilia%20Raw.pdf&xl=81630622&fc=1

>>96256510
Honest question, can a Sicaran's Autocannons also work as antitank? Seems like you can never have enough antitank this time around oof

>>96256454
Unironically a journal tactica alongside zone mortalis

>>96256534
No, autocannons are really poor anti-tank this edition. You need a 6 to pen a rhino and can only gance predators (against front armor both times). Theyre now an anti infantry/automata weapon, damage 2 and a good weight of fire.

The only vehicle an autocannon will really work against are flyers, since a xiphon is like armor 11.

>>96256517
You always fail checks on double 6s, and always pass on double 1s

Is it me or are Fulmentals actually not bad this edition?

>Int test if they stay still to go up to BS5.
>Range 36 missiles in both flavours
>One is a 4 firepower, Str4 attack with Supressive (1)
>The other is 2fp, Str7 AP4 with Breaching 5+

Sure the anti-inf shot could be Str5 and Breaching 5 on the Hellfire isn't great, but 4 shots each with Supressive and BS5 and good range, on a platform that requires some pretty dedicated firepower to shift, parked in your deployment zone to contest objective points seems okay?
Better than the Iron Warriors attempt anyway, but that bar is pretty low.

I guess the only real problem is their point costs.

>>96256519
Noice. Thanks anon

>>96256483
>age of darkness box
>a list that isn't pure shit

LMFAO. Nah bro, you're stuck with ten cataphractii and a spartan clogging up your list, have fun with that.

>>96256561
Not that bad? Not as oppressive as early 2.0, more like.
Hey Tyrants! Guess who can actually Implacable Advance with all their guns!

>>96256561
>Better than the Iron Warriors attempt anyway
I strongly disagree. The IW ones come with fists standard, They also do "terminator melee/anti tank" as their split, rather than "terminator melee/anti infantry".

If you want terminators to dakka down infantry you can take the cheaper and afaik better tartaros siege squad, 45pts gives you a tartaros terminator with a reaper autocannon, which will give you comparable results into infantry and do better into heavy infantry and walkers.
Fulmentarus arent useless, but theyre a very niche unit which will struggle to get good value.

>>96256571
But I want to be able to play :(

>enters service before being fully built
>techies install the guns only after it left base to head into the field
I love these tin cans, man.

>>96256573

>Hey Tyrants! Guess who can actually Implacable Advance with all their guns!

Yeah, but you lose the chance to go up to BS5 if you do. The downside would be if you want to do that reliably, you need to put a high Int command choice (like a MoS) into the unit.

>>96256594
You can't! You wasted hundreds of dollars on a box that's worthless because it's packed with a worthless ten man cataphractii squad and a worthless Spartan to go with them!!!!

>>96256247
Seems cool to me. I don't think you need to minmax that combo if you just like the sicaran punisher. I'd classify that as a Charming Combo rather than a Wombo Combo.

>>96256072
Exposure to the plastic factory is not kind to the human form

>>96256519
Shit how do I use this one.
I barely understood the old mega stuff

>>96256620
I got suckered into the AoD box hype back in 2022 and left it sitting around unassembled because the knowledge that the box itself was actually shit hit me hard

Afternoon. I'll be receiving an order of recasts from Ukraine in a little while, and was wondering if you guys would be interested in seeing the quality if you're on the fence?

>>96256599
I want one just to use as a narrative mission objective. "Breach the wall" type mission. Or have a big wall halfway up that has a removable section for the mastadon.

>>96256639
Now that I 3d print, recasts look as expensive as when I used recast and looked at gw price.

>>96256403
>only brought bolters to kill infantry
...like what? I was told to prioritize anti-tank, because 30 tactical marines and a 5 man volkite culverin squad is apparently enough in the way of anti-infantry. Something about a lot of HH players spamming tanks?

>>96256483
Don't listen to the other guy. It's a fine box. If your legion doesn't have unique termis then get a cata command squad in a Spartan with a master of signals elsewhere to grant them Vanguard/line as needed. Tac marines too. More than enough to get started.

>>96256631
>Install TIxati (or any Bittotrrent client of your chosing)
>Paste the link (including the magnet:?xl crap) into the main window
>???
>Profits

>>96256454
If Destroyers have Bitter Duty, can Moritats join them now?

>>96256665
>master of signals
>old ass model that is bundled with a champion

Are you sure?

>>96256599
It's just like a college deadline-day project lmao

>>96256665
How to equip the cata command squad?

>>96256678
>The easiest kitbash imaginable with bits ready in the box, or
>buy a resin 2 pack
There is a correct choice.

>>96256677
No
Even though the flavor text says they do
But the flavor text also says that siege teartaros squads use power fists and TH and they can't take those either so...

>>96256694
>kitbashing an hq model that can only take a bolt pistol...from praetor models and nuncio vox bits that have melee weapons.

Uh huh. Sure. "Easy kitbash."

>>96256573
>Hey Tyrants! Guess who can actually Implacable Advance with all their guns!
Id be careful with that one. Fulmentarus are not good in melee, they dont even come with melee weapons stock. And the things you want to fire at are also probably things you dont want to be in melee with.

>>96256704
What? No, a master of signals can take power weapons. You retarded or something? Just stick a nuncio vox on the back of one the praetors. Boom, master of signals.

>>96256712
>he doesn't know about the 3.0 MoS rules

>>96256721
What, no, that's ridiculous, why would they...

>checks rules

WHAT THE FUCK AM I SUPPOSED TO DO WITH MY CONVERTED MASTER OF SIGNALS WITH A POWER SWORD NOW?????

Talinig about the MoS. Wtf is that detachment?
I don't see anything on the liber like that

>>96256704
The spartan vehicle sprue has hand terminals and weaponless hands so it looks like he's reading a kindle. Bolt pistol holstered. Vox back pack. Done. All bits inside the box. 100% legal model.

>>96256691
Ideally combi bolters and thunder hammers. But regular fists are fine. Add a standard if you like the model.

>>96256730
Pay the points and play it anyway like most people are. Models and rules for cool are more important than GW corpo rules changes for the sake of profit.

>>96256731
Not out yet, probably something from the next journal.

>>96256730
Count it as a close combat weapon.

New thread without the faggot anime shit.
>>96256745
>>96256745

>>96256691
Fists are the all around choice, fists if you specifically need to fight other terminators

>>96256605
Eh, the stationary requirement is fair. The whole unit needs only one targeter, which is surprising but okay. It's every model basically having a supercharged plasma gun that doesn't overload what surprises me, actually.
Tyrants are just baaaaad, man. It's honestly really sad. I guess if enough people bitch to FW's email they might change it (wait for the rebalance pdf lmao). But still... bit tiresome

>>96256730
He uses it to point at things.

>>96256708
>the things you want to fire at are also probably things you dont want to be in melee with
...don't want to charge Tacticals? I am of the belief that Heavy Assault units are for bullying anything lighter than them
Yeah I see Fulmentarii have basically a plasma gun, but I'm not firing that at terminators. It's plasma; that's ineffective against those :^)

>>96252125
Thank you sir, you are a gentleman, and a scholar.

>>96256731
>>96256721
That is outrageous! It's unfair! How can one be an officer of the Adeptus Astartes and have no power weapon?

>>96256731
>Maelstrom sentry
It's the DAEMON TARANTULA detachment :^)

Auxillia bros...did we do OK? Assault out of Dracosans seems great

>>96255126
Sick quote

>>96256354
How? Rhinos have the light transport rule.

>>96255735
Can’t you cut them off at the fingers and glue them to one of the other hands?

>>96256031
I understand his complaints and I can see anons dumping on him for constantly being this salty albeit with the right takes. It wears people down. Just finish your ruleset and quit pumping out cringe videos.

>>96251821
>i am having analysis paralysis when it comes to loadouts using the generic questoris unit

There are a few things to consider with Questoris:
- Their melee sucks. Most knight melee sucks, Questoris are no exception. Double melee knight is just absolutely stupid in 30k.
- Status effects mean no bonus for being stationary, so taking double RFBC with Arbalester might look great, if it suffers a status effect, it's less than half as effective.
- Splitting fire is done on a weapon by weapon basis, and if you decide to split, ALL non-defensive weapons will be fired as snap shots.

There is some good news though...
- Blast weapons don't give a shit about snap shots, if they miss they just scatter 1D6".
- Defensive weapons (S6 or less) don't snap shoot when splitting fire, this includes the Avenger Gatling Cannon, also the stubbers, multi-laser, and ironstorm missiles.
- Battlesmith (X), like from the Preceptor, has a 72% chance to repair status effects BEFORE they negatively affect the knight during your turn.

So with that in mind, double thermal, or thermal+avenger works very well, and isn't worried about splitting fire, or status effects (except Suppressed for the Avenger).

RFBC is very good at killing MEQ when stationary, but absolutely garbage the rest of the time, so only take it on a Preceptor, or an Arbalester knight that will be sticking by your Preceptor.

Double Avenger looks hot on paper, but is very penalized by Suppressed state (which can happen from glancing hits).

Other things to remember with knights:
- Enemies hit the highest armor value the model can draw LOS to in this edition. Since you're on a round base, that means rear armor is only shot in a corridor as wide as the base, directly back, so front armor is really like 80% of the arc.
- Knights cannot score, Vanguard 2 scores less than any line unit on an objective. You will lose every game if you don't have Armigers or Solar Auxilla (their mechanicum units can't score).

>>96257257
They said so on warcom

>>96257645
Link ?

Finally. a good use for my Johnny.

Does a Lacrymaerta Magos with Prime Specimens get to share his bonus with the unit (tech-thralls for example) he joins ?

>>96257986
no

Oh look a whiner, no ones gonna play your shityy version. 1e ruled, 2 e sucks and 3e is peak, almost like playing bolt action. Units are balanced, nothing really sucks (stop whining everything in cc got down graded too bad, 2e was way more CC dominant and always favoured Marines, cope and see the) I love the complaints about lost options, legends cones out and has more options now for SM then 2e ever did. It's quite clear the legends encourages kit bashes. You doomers are histrionic snow flakes who whine about everything. Wah my "brilliant strategy" just turned out to be exploiting sergeants in artificial armour and I'm actually a shit player, wahhhhhh

>>96258064
Fuck off Pardo. Any decent local group of players agreed to not spam dreadnoughts and 2+ sergeants.

>>96256744
"Legacies+"
It was legal wargear once, it is legal forever.

>>96251729
>Bike chads have been getting W after W.
So the reverse of 40k then.

>>96257297
really appreciate this breakdown anon. though i have no desires to splash any marines/aux, mech does look interesting long term and i'm definitely going to take some armiger as support and scoring units (it looks to my untrained eyes that one talon detachment is "free" for freeblades thanks to the medicant rule, without being forced to take an aspirant? or maybe the expendable makes it worth it anyway)

which cerastus variant is your favorite? does the lancer have any value given the state of questoris combat options?

>>96259555
NTA, but the Castigator and Acheron absolutely mulch MEQ in shootouts, so use them as midfield bullies to wipe off the opponent's hordes of Line(X) shitters and then move in with the Armigers to score.

Against armor, particularly armor that can harass you, getting up close with Questoris Thermal Cannons or a Lancer looks to be the best bet. Lancers dont seem very impressive in punchouts or brawls (the Castigator is even marginal there), but the Lancer diving in (and even the Acheron's Chainfist in a pinch) look like the best way to really can open Marine tanks.

Watch the fuck out for Vindicators though. They're trying to get close to you as well, but if you get the timing wrong its going to hurt.

Um, excuse me legioniggers, where is the talons pdf?

>>96259555

No problem, I've been putting a lot of thought into them, so glad someone finds it useful!

We don't get to take marines at all, so no need to think about them. Without Aux for scoring, we lack any Line options (though Lasrifles are only Line 1). The mechanicum units do not score at all (except Domitar with Vanguard 2, so not great). That means you will definitely want at least 4 Armigers for scoring objectives.

Mendicant does unlock an Armiger detachment without taking an Aspirant, so that's great, making a knight more susceptible to status effects with Aspirant sucks.

The Atrapos absolutely fucks as far as Cerastus chassis go, otherwise I prefer the Castigator. It gets enough attacks in combat to be somewhat meaningful, and it's guns kill marines. The Acheron is great with the Arbalester rank, but keep in mind that status effects still mean you won't get that AP3, so I tend to skip it.

I like the lancer, but I don't think it's very good. It might work with Acuteller though, giving it a fair chance to snipe out the enemy Warlord with damage 5 attacks. That might be the best way to score Vow of Execution. Lancer is also a good candidate to score Vow of Alacrity.

Something else to remember is that each Knight gets a different vow, and you only have access to 5 vows in an army... so a lot of the time you will have all 5 to score. With that in mind, think about the vows and which knight can do the job. Knights suck at scoring, so need all the bonuses they can get.

>>96260359
Warhammer community.

Unfortunately going back to school this year, so I’m probably going to duck 3.0 entirely. Played a few games of 2.0 before I left. There’s a kid who wants to get into my local scene with Word Bearers so I played a couple matches with him to help him learn. Sharing the last outing of the much loved “Dios Mío” terminators, seen here before they beat these ET’s with fuckin hammers. Raldoron is in the back there, showing how Dios Mío they really are. Raldoron is also a beast, it’s almost like he was purpose built for dispatching Gal Vorbak. Also Solar Marshal is/was fucking busted. I thought the bonus WS was only on the charge and I didn’t realize it granted a bonus reaction in any phase. I fucking hate Imperial Fists

>>96260909
Gonna dump some more pics. Here’s my army, Pride of the Legion

>>96260919
Here’s deployment. Tide of Carnage is the mission. BA with first turn, no night fighting.

>>96260932
Corrupted infantry blocks are decent tar pits

>>96260960
Zardu Layak and his blade slaves failed this charge, after which he conceded. He had some bad rolls, his Spartan was immobilized for example.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA