wargame with larger sized miniatures, yay or nay?
adjust scale for weapons distance or accept they're an abstraction?

Wouldn't movement modifiers, cover, rate of fire, etc. add enough other variables that you could use realistic ranges in any scale?

most tabletop war game ranges are way too low. Even modern combat rifles are accurate to distances where range on a 28mm scale would be of no concern

>>96267220 (OP)
Mwahaha

>>96267496
Average rifle ballpark would be like 320m/350yards accurate then up to 500m/550yards still being effective if you can hit.

28mm - accurate 5m/16.6ft, effective 7.5m/24.5ft
6mm - accurate 1m/3.25ft, effective 1.65m/5.4ft

So once you get down to 6mm small arms ranges can become a factor on a manageable sized table.

>>96267803
even 5.4 ft is most of of the long side of a table, only on the extreme ends or in the diagonal would it matter, though I suppose the argument could be made either way:
>future small arms and optics are more accurate
>soldiers in a heated battle aren't able to shoot to their maximum distance and/or visibility isn't that good

>>96267220 (OP)
Abstraction is never acceptable.

>>96267435
without abstraction, lasers shoot more than 300 meters, you'd have to play battletech on a football field

>>96267435
>>96267496
>>96267803
without abstraction, lasers shoot more than 300 meters, you'd have to play battletech on a football field

>>96267220 (OP)
It isnt just range that matters, it's also line of sight. Playing with large scale figures can be ok in a jungle, fog, blizzard, sandstorm, at night or inside buildings, as you will only have short distances to shoot. Likewise, if you are playing on open plains, deserts, with aircraft in the sky, ships at sea or in space, then a smaller scale (often with range abstraction) is often more appropiate.

Alternitvely, just play on a high scale map using accurate ranges and use counters or chits to show what the units are and where they are. Models and figures are only popular because the figure making companies want you to buy them and tell you that you need them for particular games.

>>96269495
>line of sight
>open terrain
again abstraction
>yes we know the model is taller than the wall but it cant actually see over it

>>96267220 (OP)
>wargame with larger sized miniatures, yay or nay?

If you have the terrain for that too, then why not? As others pointed out, dense terrain makes more sense, because of the range.. but storing even a small tables worth of 1/35 scale terrain is a nightmare. And those Joytoy figures are 1/18.. Just think about how big even a wrecked car as scatter terrain for such figures would be, let alone some buildings.

If space and money are no concern to you, you can play with such figures without bigger issues, but realistically, wargames usually dont go bigger than 32mm, for exactly that reason.

>>96267750
some of their original designs are good, some just go over the top with cluttered tech on top of tech
I wish there was more story to them, like an rpg or wargame

>>96269541
that should be a revolver chambered in 4ga

I've seen war games with hybrid scales, where a squadron of aircraft/ships are represented both at a larger scale for close quarters and as tokens on a larger battlefield. I wonder how those ideas could be applied to more traditional infantry based war games though.

>>96273540
Strategos from the 19th century kinda does something similar, but that was a professional wargame in the vein of Kriegsspiel rather than a miniature-based hobby game.

>>96267220 (OP)
Oh hey what a coincidence, I was looking at PLAMO kits to see if I could find a mecha that would fit my campaign.
What's a good option for buying mechs at 28mm scale if you are an absolute cheapskate?
I'm ok with having to do a good bit of kitbashing.

>>96267220 (OP)
Absolutely nay. I recently played a 63mm (or something like that) game at a convention at it was a miserable experience.

I used JoyToy mechs to playtest my mech game a couple weeks ago. Had a couple friends play on a 10 foot square with boxes for buildings. It worked surprisingly well. It's just a matter of getting the movement and ranges working at that scale.

>>96267220 (OP)
cool sexbot

>>96274582
any pics?

>>96267220 (OP)
Use 8-inch articulated figures, make the poses matter. Actually make them duck behind cover, if they're not fully covered, that's your fuckup, and the rules should reflect that.

>>96275746
1/25 scale, first test of fundamental mechanics. Next week, I'll be testing a new version but with the whole room and more verticality. I went with the Joytoy mechs because all the armor and other pieces come off, showing battle damage.

>>96269456
You'd only have to play battletech on a football pitch if you entire goal of playing the game was to get out of range of a weapon.

>>96269456

You'd only have to play battletech on a football pitch if your entire goal of playing the game was to get out of range of a weapon.

>>96274387
What mechanical differences are there between a game where a human is 63mm tall and a 28/32mm scale game but you are playing with only vehicles/monsters that have 63mm tall or larger miniatures?

>>96267220 (OP)
Like Inquisitor?

>>96267220 (OP)
This image just made me wish there was a Titanfall skirmish game.

>>96267496
kill team doesn't have max range on most of its guns. the assumption is if you can see it you can shoot it.

>>96269588
>design a mech suit 3 times larger than a person
>give it shit like larger versions of arms soldiers use anyway
why
literally why
it's not like it has a fuck off sized sword or a wallbreaking ram or a huge gun a person couldn't feasibly have
you just made heavier pistols and rifles and knives
what if it breaks down, is he meant to manage all that equipment himself?
just use a small tank at that point

>>96276621
well a human would look a bit stupid with rocket salvos in his shoulders and back

>>96267220 (OP)
>Can you do [thing that's been memed to death and was also done on video]?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xJQCm1oCXyw

>>96277573
Just treat them as 1-man humvees that can run, take cover, and stab other humvees.

>>96279887
The Humvee is a staff car, not a combat vehicle.

>>96269513
>In this scenario I have invented so I can get my gay little argument fix, the terrain maker is a complete retard that can't construct a wall he intends to block LOS with taller than the model
what the fuck has gone wrong in your life you freak

>>96276603
If you can't get out of the range of a weapon there isn't a point of weapons having listed ranges

>>96268058
I've never actually seen someone give a reason on why abstraction is bad in games. The assumption that simulation good always seemed dumb to me.

>>96280389
There are games where ranged attacks are simply line of sight. They usually emphasize dense line of sight blocking terrain so it's your own fault if you somehow got yourself stuck down the ass end of a sniper lane.

>>96280389
You're starting to get it.

>>96267220 (OP)
Yes, 15mm has its place in skirmish games. Give n sufficiently small scale (heh) of the battle, one might even go as high as 25mm.

>>96276621
Everything takes so much longer. We had a giant-ass table and to measure distances, you needed two guys. One to hold the measuring tape on one end and the other to waddle over to the other end of the table. Same with moving models. Otherwise, there was no difference, there was absolutely no reason for the game to be in that large of a scale. I guess true LOS was a bit easier to do, but TLOS sucks anyway.

>>96267220 (OP)
>weapons distance
If you have range based on weapon then it's fucked in most scales. Just make all weapons unlimited range.

If you're doing this properly then range is based on unit quality as it represents their effective engagement distance, not the range of the weapon.

>>96284181
Example - Stargrunt which is 25mm

A squad of completely untrained persons with rifles can suppress out to 20" and are effective to 4"
A squad that has had standard military training and small amount of experience can suppress out to 40" and is effective to 24"
A squad of the most highly trained and experience spec ops guys can suppress out to 60" and is effective to 60"

>>96267220 (OP)
Have they tried this a couple decades ago with the Shadowrun clix game, which were full sized, articulated action figures, with bases that were based off of the Wizkid clix systems that were popular at the time. It bombed dramatically.

To a lesser extent, you also had games, workshops, Inquisitor skirmish game, which actually had really good rules and excellent models, but the scale just was inconvenient, expensive, and couldn't use any of your pre-existing Warhammer terrain. Terrain. Playing Inquisitor using regular 40K minis was amazing though.