Thread 96283418

>cool ancient lore
>cool factions (except the OT / ST ones)
>galactic scale war, genocides, mass-destruction, sword & sorcery in space
>Pius Dea era (40k in SW)
Yet all feel and it's portrayed in the lamest way possible (specially war, combat), and the SW-likes fell in the same lame path.
Why Star WARS failed despite being a huge influence in 40k?

>>96283418 (OP)
At times I wonder why Star Wars never did alternative universes the way Gundam does. Formally, the old EU isn't canon to the Disney canon and is designated Legends but why not keep both going like Gundam AUs

>>96283459
Same, it's even more stupid when you think about it
>Legends, aka myths that can be true or not
>therefore infinite content to create without falling in the (stupid) "muh canon"
>yet Disney refuse to use it, keep remaking and retconning PT, OT

Also, it's stupid how you have space civilizations with hyperspace travel but not mechas
>Galactic Republic, 25,000 years of existence
>no mechas

>Infinite Empire, one of the most advanced civilizations
>has the trch to develop weapons of galactic-scale destruction and turn hellish planets into paradises
>still no mechas

It amazes me (in a bad way) how Star Wars did the 'sword & sorcery in space', one of the coolest subgenres ever and made it lame af since 1977 'til today. Truly impressive.

Bump those death-sticks.

>>96283418 (OP)
Pius dea is space Inquisition/wars of religion in space according to their creator (it's origins are in early 2000s reference book). WEG era bedrock lore make the Galactic civil war quite interesting with how the Rebs and Imps dance with each other and is foundational to EU lore and really disney canon by extension. An actual depiction of a Galactic scale war in SW is schizo at best but holistically the CWs do pull it off (ignore TCW mostly and go for the previous CWM project and other eu stuff) with the Republic having quadrillions of citizens which fight in the first Galactic scale war in 1000 years (legends appeared to be on the precipice of examining this if you go by TEGTW but we will never know) against eachother but it takes some hyperfixation and retcon ignoring/ironing shit out.
>Why star wars failed?
Disney 360 no scoped the Expanded Universe and subsequently shat all over it sundering and flipping off the hard core nerd base, ignored it (outside of a live service mmo and a 3rd party company squeezing in legends shit in the FFG RPG but its quite obvious from said publications they were not happy with disney executing the EU. In the lastest galaxy atlas planets unique to that legends MMO appear in disney canon for the first time) and simultaneously ripped off the EU but somehow made it WORSE to create Disney canon. To this day I have no fucking idea why they don't run both Disney and Legends continuitys together but I suspect they perceive that legends would win in terms of popularity. In hindsight maybe it's for the best Dissney didn't fuck over the EU as they did to their own canon.
>TLDR
>Dinsey horrendously shat the bed for a decade+ somehow that eclipses previous fantard schisms by an infinite magnitude. I cannot put into words the sheer retarded malicious mishandling they did to Star Wars.

>>96283459
Gundam is a perfect example of how to properly diversify your IP without encroaching on the "main canon" too hard. They have the core Universal Century calendar that represents the original timeline of Mobile Suit Gundam and its sequels and offshoots, and then everything else is a different calendar.

I can't think of another franchise that handles expanded universe content so cleanly. Star Wars could easily do things like this, where they have their Kotor era republic to use as a setting, or the prequel-era republic. The original trilogy era should be left mostly alone at this point, unless that Andor is as good as people say.

>>96283925
Andor is definitely the best bit of SW since Disney took over and ranks among the greatest pieces of a SW media but YMMV on where exactly it sits.

>>96283418 (OP)
>being a huge influence in 40k
Is it though?

>>96283503
Canon isn't stupid people like consistency within a story

>>96283459
Gundam is always future solar system. SW have much more star systems to use (entire galaxy and beyond)
Same with any sci fi with similar (or at least Trek scale)

>>96283418 (OP)
>no 30 page textless montage of Han and Luke wandering through the labyrinthine megastructure of the Death Star in search of Leia
>"I'M SEARCHING FOR A PRINCESS WITH NET TERMINAL GENES"

>>96283998
Corporate-controlled canon is stupid. Creator-controlled canon is not.
Case in point:
>We're going to KILL SUPERMAN, you guys!
oh boy I can't wait for him to come ba--
>IT'S THE RETURN OF SUPERMAN, YOU GUYS!

>>96283459
It's a product of how it was made. Sunrise tried doing other anime, and while some had success nothing could compete with Gundam. But at the same time they broke away from Mushi Pro to create new things instead of following the master creator. If anything having people working on a sequel for something very personal for another dude was bound to end poorly.

There's also the fact that continuity breeds a certain type of obsessive fan that will buy everything. In the US this was only exploited by comics, soap operas and star wars while in Japan everything had it. I don't know if the production limitations disuaded the western companies from that mountain of gold or if they just didn't check how much money comics and soap operas were making until George got there.

>>96283925
Also consider how they make different type of takes on the IP according to the medium. You get the big stand alone changes to the standard on weekly TV to catch the audience who knew about Gundam but didn't like what they had to offer, but short net animation for UC lore (and toyline) expansions, the detailed niche UC stuff goes as OVA to extact money from the existing audience without needing new toys. I can totally believe that at one point Gundam had as much merch and products in Japan as Star Wars had in the world, it's a very controlled and trimed IP while letting crazy people do whatever they think is cool.

>>96284044
What are you talking about?
In the comics the return of superman was very good and cool while the death was very rushed and stupid. If I didn't know better I'd assume they had been working on stories for Supes to come back for months and then decided to kill him asap so they could get there.

>>96283925
>unless that Andor is as good as people say
It's pretty good and probably the best Disney era Star Wars media aside from Mando S1, but that's admittedly a low bar and I think the show is overrated as a result. Moreover, I don't think it's a good model for what Star Wars should be like going forward since a lot of its appeal is frankly rooted in how it contrasts with other Star Wars media. Though that's not to say anything Disney's currently doing is a good model for how the franchise should go forward.
Actually, I struggle to think of a major sci-fi/fantasy franchise that has a good model for the future.

Is there a SW system I could use for full power fantasy where players are absolute badass in huge scenarios? Stuff like crossing a battlefield to get to their destination or light saber space combat or shadow of the colossus style fights against stupidly massive aliens or mechs. I feel the visuals would make that type of scenarios click with players very easily, but all the systems I've seen are about scrappy dudes barely surviving life.

>>96284372
Use the Star Wars FFG system and give them at least 500 bonus starting XP. My non force user players have pulled some crazy shit
>instantly wiped out a company of stormtroopers
>cut an ATST to pieces using only a vibro-axe
>be ambushed by a squad of imperial commandos and wipe them out in a single round
>hacked an imperial interdictor to reverse its gravitational field, causing it to explode
From what I hear force user characters can do even more bullshit

>>96283418 (OP)
Do you really consider your pic to be cool?

>>96283418 (OP)
Because your average Star Wars fan can be placated with lightsaber porn and seeing mando armor for the umpteenth time.

>>96284483
OP is a schizo spic redditor (he is literally a redditor), who keeps schizoing non-stop about Star Wars armor not being "cool" while posting cringe edgeslop that looks like it was made by AI. He's been at it for a while on multiple boards. He is brown, can't speak English, and has the mind of a 6 year old drooling retard.

>>96284433
is this an intended play style or an exploit?
are there some GM tools to help build a game like that or modules in that style, or should I have to make everything from scratch?
I worry a bit that I'll blow my load too fast and quickly not have anything to do with the characters.

>>96284191
Andor is great inspiration for rebel or imperial campaigns set during the early GCW. I’m frankly astonished there hasn’t been more rebel imperial stuff put out, especially since the OT battles are such a bore
>a dozen fighters blow up the Death Star
>4 AT ATs slaughter infantry
>teddy bears kill stormtroopers with silly traps

>>96284521
The game is designed with 500xp being late game but it’s easy to just keep going, my game is at 1360xp, just scale the shit up there’s a whole galaxy to pick from

>>96283872
Amen to the CWM > TCW.
I have to say people are pretty annoying with the Disney ruined SW, because the "original sin" started with Lucas himself, Disney just amplified the disaster.

For some reason Lucas thought that turning super-soldiers rised to be super-soldiers that preserved their Mandalorian roots was to epic, so he turned them in copypastes that complain about the war every episode.
Because why an advanced civilization would want the perfect soldier, better than a droid?! When it can have a "muh individuality, muh clones rights" to do the job.

>>96283925
>>96283953
>>96284191
Excuse me, but I heavily disagree. ANDOR is not good, it is well made (for the most part), but it doesn't make sense (like most part of Star Wars)
>have highly advanced space civilization
>aka, hyper-space travel, cloning, DNA modification, robotic technologies, etc. + all the obscure Force stuff
>still can't be able to have cameras and defenses every 10 cm
You can't have a WW2 spy show in space because it doesn't make sense, spy techniques were developed in different form according to the tech and logistics of the time, trying to do the
>LOOK WW2 / VIETNAM WAR BUT IN SPAAAACEE!!
It is what is killing Star Wars because at some point, it no longer make sense (and the whole "Space 1920s France" planet arc was kinda cringe).
If in-universe, the Republic / Empire should be literally GOD (omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient) with the tech that has been developing for 25,000 years.
INGSOC would be a noob in comparision with the UNLIMITED POWA'!!! of the Republic / Empire in terms of state control and brain-washing.

>>96284595
>have highly advanced space civilization
>aka, hyper-space travel, cloning, DNA modification, robotic technologies, etc. + all the obscure Force stuff
>still can't be able to have cameras and defenses every 10 cm
You mean like in the Death Star where they walked through? There was a whole gunfight in the prison block but they shot 4 cameras and the imperials had no fucking idea what happened and needed to send people to check it out.

>>96284540
last question
I see that there are 3 core books and a shit ton of suplemental material. What do I need to read and what should I get just to have it around?

>>96284644
The 3 core books.
Anything else is purely extra.

>>96284595
You're brown.

>>96284644
Each core book focuses on a certain campaign theme, but all are completely cross compatible. My advice is to just buy the core book you are most interested in and use the fanmade wiki to get access to all the other careers, skill trees and equipment. (https://star-wars-rpg-ffg.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars_RPG_(FFG)_Wiki)
>Edge of the Empire: Smugglers, bounty hunters, mercenaries, explorers, colonists living life within the galaxy.
>Age of Rebellion: Soldiers, spies, diplomats fighting in a war.
>Force and Destiny: Force users
The expansion books are pretty optional, I would recommend the ones that expand on an era or setting. Each career also has a related book that gives more skill trees (also found on the wiki) but also advice on running.

My best advice is to just grab the starter box for the core book you want and run the module within first to get an idea of how to run the game. Once you have a few sessions under your belt then you can start giving out XP to power level them to mary sue levels

>>96284604
Again, this proves what I said, the whole station should have cameras with mini-gubs every 10 cm, not just 4 cameras with 0 protection.

>>96285010
>it doesn’t fit Star Wars because it’s consistent with Star Wars but I don’t like Star Wars
Ok retard

>>96285010
>the original Star Wars films do not fit Star Wars

>>96285143
>anon doesn't understand that technology affects how humans interact between them and the world

>>96285181
>George Lucas waa a bad director and writer
>even the actors themselves had to fix sometimes the script

Make Sword & Sorcery Great Again.

>>96285198
>anon doesn't understand that settings have their own identity instead of being logical extrapolations of data points

Make Sword & Sorcery Great Again.

Sci-fi and fantasy was always grouped together at bookstores when I was young (37). I think both genres really specialize in suspension of belief instead of grandiose portraits of humanity. It's not really about the question why collective human experience is interesting, but how the human experience can be commercialized which I find appealing because it's a neo-baroque worldview of hard and soft power.

>>96284595
Being inconsistent about technology is practically a defining trait of Star Wars. I don't know why you'd hone in on that as a criticism of Andor in particular instead of more obvious stuff like how the pacing of S2 is totally fucked because they tried cramming multiple seasons of material into it instead of going back to the drawing board.

>>96285308
Don't you think that we could have both?
Also, suspension of belief is not limitless, at some point the setting would become a shitshow, and in Star Wars that has happened many times and sadly, same with Conan.

>>96285424
Both is definitely the kino experience of fiction. My initial point was that the desire to suspend disbelief isn't conducive to a well crafted narrative.
>Posting ai slop because I'm a pig

>>96285453
>Both are definitely the kino experience of fiction.
I agree, but as I said before, in both there are many times that action becomes goofy af and logic, common sense are through out the window.
At some point, at least for me, would be good to see a scifi/fantasy kino where logic, armor, tactics, strategy, etc. are key, and plot armor is non-existant, minimal or believable.

>>96285394
The odd inconsistent nature of the force leaves the viewers with a task after viewing; dark or light, Jedi or sith, good or evil. Platonic views could see palpatine's ambitions as a gnostic reawakening of the divine human spirit, while the Jedi put stock in karmic evaluation and the purity of "free will".
Rhetorically both could be argued, but we both know the reality of this judeo-narrative of the shoah and why you're complicit in it.

>>96285583
I get you. Hard sci Fi is difficult to translate from a literary to film media though. How do you make a cinematic sequence equal to near 4th wall breaking narrative?

>>96285583
These are subjective norms that guardrail a continuity plot. I'm cool with my propaganda because the 'the government' spent several thousand dollars to program me to be this way. Inefficient vectors are useless.

>>96285596
Sadly Idk, but people that had pay thousands in a cinema, arts, literature degree should be able to create it, portray it. Furthermore with the current budgets, technology and in a near future with AI.

>>96285394
>Being inconsistent about technology is practically a defining trait of Star Wars.
That doesn't mean is a good trait.

I also agree with you about the pacing of S2, but many people had already critized that and not the tech coherence, which is a key aspect in a setting focused in warfare, politics and logistics, specially in a spy show.

>>96283418 (OP)
Star Wars is the late 70s in space and every attempt to do otherwise is the gayest, lamest shit.

>>96285744
>Star Wars is the late 70s in space
Someone has forgotten that Lucas started the Prequels in 1999.

>>96284503
>who keeps schizoing non-stop about Star Wars armor not being "cool"
Wait, he's not the same guy who complains Armor has flexible joint weaknesses, is he?

>>96284595
>>LOOK WW2 / VIETNAM WAR BUT IN SPAAAACEE!!
Anon, you're in the wrong franchise...
Snub Fighters dogfights alone are half of the action.

>>96285198
>>anon doesn't understand that technology affects how humans interact between them and the world
I mean you're not wrong, but you have to remember that you also need to make a STORY out of it.

>>96285596
>How do you make a cinematic sequence equal to near 4th wall breaking narrative?
Exactly.

>>96285941
>Someone has forgotten that Lucas started the Prequels in 1999.
But the Prequels are 50s in space.

>>96286053
>Anon, you're in the wrong franchise...
Goerge Lucas himself said Star Wars was (a critic of) the Vietnam War in space with WW2 elements.

>But the Prequels are 50s in space.
Source? Because I don't remember Lucas talking about this, inf fact 50s alternative futurism, because it usually so optimistic, sometimes is even more advanced than current scifi, despite being "retro".

>but you have to remember that you also need to make a STORY out of it.
Said that to the writers and directors, those are the ones that should hire experts in weaponry and also use their imagination to mix it all but with logic and connected to a good story.

>>96283459
Disney hates money. They prefer to buy something good, then promptly run it into the fucking ground.

>>96283986
I think 40k was a higher influence on it actually
>Hyperspace travel is actually infested with demons
>Weird race of bug alien hivemind people from another galaxy
>Evil menacing borderline corpse emperor on a tech throne (sequel slop but still)
>Underhives full of criminal scum and poor people
All added to the canon post warhammer 2nd ed
I like both Star Wars and 40k but im genuinely surprised that for such a derivative setting taking so many things from all over sci fi (Foundation, Dune and so on) 40k doesn't really have star wars analogues. The most one can do is a very loose comparison between the CIS and the Tau but even than it would be absolutely bullshitting due to how different both are.

i always loved how Sith and the darkside was basically space satanism

>>96283418 (OP)
They kill off all the cool characters

>>96284595
>it doesn't make sense (like most part of Star Wars)
Because you're treating Star Wars like it's speculative fiction, not a mythological story. What matters in Star Wars isn't that the technology is realistic or scientifically accurate (sound in space was a long-running joke), but that the characters are human. That's why the prequels are about internal politics and manipulation, not about the conflict between rival technologies. Even TCW focused on the superiority of human spirit over technological innovation.

>>96286053
>Wait, he's not the same guy who complains Armor has flexible joint weaknesses, is he?
Yes, it's the same guy. Armor autism, grimdark AI-generated terrible looking edgeslop, the most braindead, retarded complaints about Star Wars and other popular sci-fi/fantasy, and broken English because he is a spic. Yet he also larps as ebin fascist/white supremacist, despite not being white. His most hilarious threads are the "skull measurement comparisons" of Mandalorian helmet and stormtrooper helmet, implying that Mandalorian helmet is Übermensch, and stormtroopers are niggers. Of course, he simps for Mandalorian, because he is portrayed by a spic (Pedro Pascal). Man, I am tired of this faggot and his schizo dogshit threads on every single board. I wish he had stayed on reddit, but I am pretty sure he was bullied out of it, because no one liked his schizo dogshit opinions.

>>96290260
>only mando helmet is fit for white people unlike storm trooper helmet what was worn by white actors

>>96290260
That's actually funny when considering the quality difference between stormtroopers and clones. I'm pro that guy now. Shine on you mexisperg

>>96289504
I like it too, I just wish it made more sense in the setting. Rule of two is painfully stupid.

>>96284595
>Andor is not good star wars because it's based on historical period but in space and isn't consistent with technology
I was going to put something snarky in here but I'll just give it to you straight - you're a fucking dipshit that has missed the entire point of Star Wars. It's literally always been recycled historical move tropes in space and the tech has never, ever made any sense.

>>96284191
Why did they shill for TFA?

>>96293039
Naive optimism after they'd shit on Lucas so hard for the prequels. Surely anything Disney made had to at least be better than the prequels, right? In fairness, even now it's almost unbelievable how things turned out.

>>96293147
Sequels are far better made movies than the prequels, by a country mile.

>>96293161
said no one ever

>>96293161
"Better made" is a metric that sounds more meaningful than it really is. All the real physical props and scenery in the world didn't make the sequels good movies. However, I don't want to be too big of a Lucas apologist here. He got high on playing with new technology and basically failed in directing the actual actors properly. But for all his failures, he didn't manage to salt the soil like Disney has.

>>96290260
>>96291174
Yeah I'm not sure this is the same fucktard, this Anon was the one who got upset when told that actualizing his perfect protection armor would end up either looking like a full body sock or a sphere.

>>96283459
Anything good that Japanese media does, westerners are incapable of doing for some reason.
You'll get your 30 year old Akira or DBZ reference and that's it.

>>96284595
>You can't have a WW2 spy show in space because it doesn't make sense
You do realise that Star Wars is based on WW2 elemetns in space?

>>96285272
Go on anon. Make your own Sword & Sorcery IP

>>96284191
>aside from Mando S1,

>>96293243
I think it's because Lucas at his height didn't wield such an iron grasp on that IP outside of the movies at the time. I'd say the best time for Star wars media that wasn't the movies was during/after the prequels. We were getting excellent videogames and alright novels and comics and the d20 RPG was decent and had good source books for eras other than OT and PT. Post Disney, the Vidya is bad, the movies are bad, the shows are mostly bad, the novels are bad and all focus on a narrow band of time or their new dogshit high republic era. They've really salted the earth.

>>96295280
The cartoon clone wars show by samurai Jack guy was incredible

>>96291972
Least cult like and most mentally stable Andor fan.

>>96283503
The sith are ontologicallu evil because they refuse to make mechas.

>>96295349
>cult like
>says a guy who dislikes Star Wars for being Star Wars

>>96286053
>>96290260
>>96293274
Anons are you new here?
>anon does a schizo thread that it's repeated by other anons
>clearly as a joke, like many other schizo threads because this is... 4chan
>you take it seriously
Kek.

>>96289504
>>96291182
>space satanism
Morel like space realism, my tribe vs your tribe, my tribe is better and inside my tribe I'm the best.

Every time I see an abrahamic term, the thread becomes shit.

>>96285941
No I didn’t.

>>96295077
All the Turn Ɐ Gundam mech designs were designed by a Western artist, Syd Mead.
Mead even did some Star Wars art.

>>96289483
>Underhives full of criminal scum and poor people
>40k invented New York and Hong Kong

>>96295280
It was a marketing phenomenon too. Lucas more or less invented modern marketing and entire store sections were Star Wars during that time.

>>96284595
Autism

>>96296956
This 70s hippies (Lucas, Cameron, etc) should pay for being annoying hypocrite snoobtards.

>>96283418 (OP)
>Yet all feel and it's portrayed in the lamest way possible (specially war, combat), and the SW-likes fell in the same lame path.
That's because none of what you said actually is cool and is all tacked onto a pretty simplistic and straight forward space opera trilogy. The entire foundation for making star wars into something more than what it is, doesn't really exist.

>>96296333
Forbidden Gundam lore

>>96284132
Cultivating an audience of that kind of fan means having to deal with those kinds of fans. The kind that attempt kidnappings and throw cups of vomit at creatives. Also the US comic market was much more cyclical until the 90s and those kinds of fans were less common.

>>96309124
>>96309146
From where did you get this artworks? They're impressive.

From which IP is the 'Red Myst'?

>>96309146
God I wish that was me.

>>96283418 (OP)
Star Wars problem has been since Disney took over, they been pushing their woke shit in it. They can't be a cool Fantasy Sci-fi story, it has to be fighting for queer black trans women and whatever the woke left are pushing for at the moment. We are going to see 40k fall soon to this same thing but the biggest difference is that Star Wars is about their shows and media. 40k is mostly just games so most people don't care too much about the setting outside of memes and basic level lore.

>>96313425
Are you mad they made Superman an Immigrant?

>>96283503
>Also, it's stupid how you have space civilizations with hyperspace travel but not mechas
They just use slightly less retarded designs.

>>96314309
You saw them getting the piss kicked out of them by scout fliers and ewoks because they have a terrible design. Everyone getting psyopped into thinking walkers are more realistic because they don't have the ability to stand back up is a powerful display of dunning kruger.

>>96315271
Hence "slightly less" retarded. Mecha are retarded no matter what. The only actually good design is just a big IFV with legs.

>>96283418 (OP)
Lucas and his cum-guzzlers are miserable little shits is why

>>96314309
>>96315369
The at-at is one of the worst fictional vehicles ever created. It's a giant piece of shit that can't see or fight back if you can get within fifty meters of it, has no air defense, no ground defense, and its only weapons are fixed forward in the same direction that it walks. They lose multiple of them fighting a completely boxed in enemy in a siege because they're just that terrible.

You don't have any grasp on "less retarded", they can't even properly fend off the marketable plushies.

>>96296244
I'm fairly sure he's talking about Satanism as an actual modern religious practice.

>>96313039
The artists names are in the file name. They're on artstation.

>>96309124
This one is from a series from the artist redesigning Darth Vader
www . artstation . com / artwork/48Zkl

>>96284595
>>have highly advanced space civilization
>>aka, hyper-space travel, cloning, DNA modification, robotic technologies, etc. + all the obscure Force stuff
>>still can't be able to have cameras and defenses every 10 cm
An advanced space civilization as understood by people quite a long time ago, so it's quite fucking anachronistic. The OG Death Star didn't have cameras everywhere either.

Also Star Wars should just be like community, by which i mean that each new thing should be extremely heavily drawing from a totally new established style/genre in the same way. The original films were just Flash Gordon meets WWII dogfighting movies meet samurai films. this is why the only two watchable recent star wars things have been Andor (also WW2 movie) rogue one (heist movie) and the first season of the mandalorian (western). The inherent joy of star wars is taking sets of established genre trappings and joyfully mashing them together like action figures with a pulpy space aesthetic thrown on top. the more star wars has becoime About Star Wars the worse it has gotten

>>96317613
sorry, three*