Thread 96457768

Every time I search for a cool "barbarian" in some RPG, no matter if it's dark fantasy or not, it's always the half-naked dude or chick that looks like he / she has just wake up after an university party.
It gives the same vibes that you get from watching an historical film and for some reason, the filmmakers hate natural colors and must put a filter that ruins your immersion.

Is it there a good RPG with proper "barbarians"?

>>96457768 (OP)
Barbarians shouldn’t exist. They re just fighters.

>>96457791
There is a reason why I wrote " ".

Dnd 5e, play a fighter

Cute amazon > Your LARP.

How can 8th century mongoloids be "barbarians" when the term lost meaning by 476 AD?

>>96457768 (OP)
These barbarians are just warriors. The D&D barbarian isn't a Mongol or a Gaul or whatever, he's a vague cross between the 'noble savage' to 'bloodthirsty native' spectrum of stereotypes plus a bunch of Norse stuff tacked on, just like the Monk doesn't line up with actual monks but rather the Asian Mystic you see in pulp fantasy plus a bunch of kung fu movie tropes.

>>96457768 (OP)
The term Barbarian was originally just a slag on anyone who wasn't Roman. DnD and later works just made it a class because of Conan but even REH would refer to Conan as Cimmerian, as uncivilized certainly but a thief, a reaver a slayer etc

>>96457996
>originally just a slag on anyone who wasn't Roman.
Greek, but yes.

>>96458016
Doesn't the word actually translate to babbler. the whole thing was basically a crack at their language.

>>96458055
Yes, Greeks thought that all non-Greek languages sound like incomprehensible "bar bar" speech.

>>96457768 (OP)
No idea why you've picked Uigars to typify your barbarians. But just figure out what you're asking and ask about that. You want Asian Steppe People? You want Gallic people from the beginning of the Roman Empire?

What the fuck do YOU mean when you say "Barbarian?" Because all that the word means is "Not Hellenized" and then later "Not Romanized."

The image we have of "barbarians" mostly comes from Conan and the stuff that contributed to those stories is pretty varied and includes a lot of really ugly, early twentieth century and late nineteenth century psuedo-science and psuedo-archeology.

>>96457768 (OP)
>Is it there a good RPG with proper "barbarians"?
This is a useless question because it depends on the setting of your game.

>>96457768 (OP)
>look up fantasy media
>wonder why it uses fantasy terminology
You're retarded. And as a non-fantasy term it's so vague as to be basically meaningless.

>>96457863
Because the term was still being used by Romans ("Byzantines") and Arabs.

>>96458546
>* "Romans" (Byzantines)

>>96458316
>No idea why you've picked Uigars to typify your barbarians.
Because I like would like a Middle Ages RPG, where steppe peoples were smashing out "civilized" states.

And I'm tired of the greco-roman version of it.

>>96458564
Is there really no Khan based game?

>>96458564
That's fine, but my point is: your defining that Uigars are how "barbarians" should be presented is nonsense. You've made that up for no particular reason that has any connection to the word "barbarian."

So just say you want Asian Steppe People, instead of saying you want "barbarians."

Barbarian is literally an ethnic slur for White people (and some Asians).

>>96458614
Forgotten Realms has it. It's the biggest land area on the planet.

>>96458552
latinoid cope

>>96458639
No, it meant non-Greek-speaker in the Hellenic period, and non Latin- and/or Greek- speaker in the Roman period (Greek was still the educated/civilized language of most of the Roman Empire). It really has nothing to do with "white" people, which is a notion that wouldn't be invented until long after the Roman Empire died.

>>96457768 (OP)
>>96458564
I don't think that I've seen a "!Cossacks" in an rpg fantasy setting outside of Kislev in Warhammer or in Rifts, so this is actually an unfilled niche. This is a very specific definition of the word "barbarian," however; Robert E. Howard really cornered the definition of barbarian with Conan.

>>96458731
>it meant non-Greek-speaker in the Hellenic period, and non Latin- and/or Greek- speaker in the Roman period
true
>Greek was still the educated/civilized language of most of the Roman Empire
true
>white" people, which is a notion that wouldn't be invented until long after the Roman Empire died.
Tacitus seems to disagree with you in his "Germania." Herodotus in "Histories" and Pericles via Thuycidides in "The Peloponnesian" (and Thuycidides himself, later) also directly contradict you. See also "Europa." There has always been a concept of ethnogenesis and identity in every civilization.

t. do not try to fool classics majors

>>96458951
There absolutely is not, in tacitus, herodotus, thuycidides or anyone the hell else, anything that even vaguely comports with your notion of "white" people. You are making that up. Did they recognize the northern mediterranean as a particular place? Absolutely. That has fuck-all to do with your notion of "white" people.

Every time I search for a cool "ranger" in some RPG, no matter if it's dark fantasy or not, it's always the Robin Hood wannabe dude or chick that looks like he / she has just wake up after a starring in a disney movie.
It gives the same vibes that you get from watching an historical film and for some reason, the filmmakers hate natural colors and must put a filter that ruins your immersion.

Is it there a good RPG with proper "ranger"?

>>96458999
>Is it there a good RPG with proper "ranger"?
Rangers were a concept lifted from LOTR so if you dislike Aragorn you're not gonna like rangers.

IRL Rangers were basically 13th century game wardens.

>>96457768 (OP)
It's not a real historical warrior class that can be rigidly categorized, just a catch-all term for foreigners

Every time I search for a cool "Paladin" in some RPG, no matter if it's dark fantasy or not, it's always the Deus Vult wannabe dude or chick that looks like he / she has just wake up after a starring in a disney movie.
It gives the same vibes that you get from watching an historical film and for some reason, the filmmakers hate natural colors and must put a filter that ruins your immersion.

Is it there a good RPG with proper "Paladin"?

>>96458968
I'm nobody's classic major, but from what I can find the general thrust of Greek thought on skin color was it mostly was used in regards to aesthetics. That is, a good looking Man would have swarthy dark skin whereas a good looking Woman would be pale. Though some of Aristotle's takes were pretty spicy."
There are some other lines which use "white" to describe greeks, but the only two I can find are of a 2nd century sophist and a Jew. I won't try to use a Jewish person as a factual source on 4chan and a Sophist was basically someone you paid to shout logical fallacies in court so I can't call that very useful.

>>96459129
>has just wake up after a starring in a disney movie.
Cmon anon, atleast change it to Dragon Quest. Now that just looks lazy of a shitpost

>>96459257
I was just following what >>96458999 did. Also, I like Dragon Quest a lot so I rather use Disney for the jab.

>>96459310
But anon, I like Dragon Quest and the Disney Robinhood movie.

>>96457768 (OP)
because conan was so special it needed to have a class dedicated to feeling like conan

>>96459029
>IRL Rangers were basically 13th century game wardens.

They evolved into something like early special forces in the colonial era, which in some ways is closer to the fantasy archetype.

So what does he have to do with Barbarians in the first place?

>>96458951
There are Cossacks in Conan RPG. Just google "Entertainer & Kozak (Conan the Brigand)".

>>96459517
I hate this little piece of shit so goddamn much

>>96459567
It's common to be jealous of people who are smarter than you.

>>96459517
ENOUGH TALK!

>>96457768 (OP)
I hate barbarians but love berserkers and idk why.

>>96457768 (OP)
Because the meaning of terms changes depending on the circumstance and context. In TTRPG context, and broader pop-culture, barbarian means a shirtless warrior surging into combat; not merely a foreign individual as identified by Romans.
Of course, the issue is that 'funny term Romans used for foreigners' isn't very useful to describe things if this is a fantasy, science fiction, or any other setting where the Roman Empire isn't a meaningful factor in current events or never existed in the first place. If you just want ancient Germanic tribes in a setting, you should ask for that instead of bitching about shirtless berserkers.

>>96457863
What is a pagan?

>>96460792
Is your love like a truck?

>>96460913
Nothing what's a pagan with you?

>>96459397
>They evolved into something like early special forces in the colonial era, which in some ways is closer to the fantasy archetype.
Special forces aren't supposed to be weak shitters though. Ranger is consistently useless. Designers hate them more than monks.

>>96457768 (OP)
Kill yourself ESL

>>96457768 (OP)
Barbarian is just non-greek people. If you wanna use the "IRL barbarian" definition everyone is one.
Barbarian, to anyone who isn't a pretentious obnoxious retard, means shirtless guy with battle rage.

>>96459129
OP here, you make me kek, thanks anon.
I know that you're shitspoting, but I agree, with it unironically.

Despite all the history and different civilizations that Mankind has, most rpg-makers (therefore mainstream) can't look beyond Tolkien and Middle Ages for their influences.

>>96461359
>Despite all the history and different civilizations that Mankind has, most rpg-makers (therefore mainstream) can't look beyond Tolkien and Middle Ages for their influences.
They look to Three Hearts and Three Lions, D&D, and Wizardry, far more.

>>96458951
>Tacitus seems to disagree with you in his "Germania." Herodotus in "Histories" and Pericles via Thuycidides in "The Peloponnesian" (and Thuycidides himself, later) also directly contradict you. See also "Europa." There has always been a concept of ethnogenesis and identity in every civilization.
>t. do not try to fool classics majors
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

>>96461365
Those all were influenced by Tolkien.
Perhaps is too mucj to say, but Tolkien could be the "Jesus Christ of Fantasy", you have Pre-Tolkien Fantasy, Tolkien/Tolkien-like Fantasy and Post-Tolkien Fantasy.

>>96457768 (OP)
I think the real question is "why do you hate Conan?"
The "heestoreecalee ackyurate" barbarians you want are just flavored warriors, no mainstrea system hates them or is stopping you from playing one... the classic barbarian class is there to justify running around semi-naked because people love Conan.
If you want actual historical accuracy then who would call themselves a barbarian? It's like some non-japanese going around saying "I'm a gaijin", makes no sense for anyone who can lift and thrive in physical labor.

>>96461415
>It's like some non-japanese going around saying "I'm a gaijin
>He's not taking it back

>>96457768 (OP)
The "problem" you've found here is that Barbarian is much, much wider archetype than it appears at first glace. The progenitor is Conan and if you read the classic stories the only things barbaric about him are his origins. Otherwise Conan is a remarkably well-spoken, fair-minded and even-handed man who looks down on "overly civilized" folks because to him they appear helpless, weak and cruel. Conan doesn't have a berserker rage like we think of it today, he has a survival instinct and no special powers. So when he encounters a giant spider or a gorilla-mummy-demon, he panicks and he goes all out. It's got elements of horror to it. And when he fights against men his superior body isn't what sets him apart (it helps a lot against nameless soldiers but he fights other individually powerful fighting men as well) it's often his martial skill, which is mental. He's also an accomplished burglar as well as statesman, famously taking the corrupt aristrocracy to task for extorting the smallfolk with huge taxes.

Barbarian barely touches base with it's roots anymore. It's evolved as a category to include berserkers as well as mystical nature powers. Barbarians now are essentially classified as nature fighters in the same vein of paladins being holy fighters. Which is fine, but something is definitely lost in translation here. Conan is a scrappy warrior unburdened by civilization's specialization. The Fighter compared to his brand of Barbarian is essentially a soldier, someone who can *only* really fight because that's their job. Conan doesn't have a job, he has many survival skills that give him freedom.

The best fix I see imho is to rebrand Ranger as Barbarian, and give the current Barbarian bag of tricks to Druids. These are cultural discursive categories though so it's not actionable. If you want a "lore accurate" Barbarian however he needs to be a jack of all trades (explicitly besides magic) and yet forced to do odd jobs due to being an unspecialized yokel.

>>96461497
It always makes me smile to look back and remember the first Conan story ever has him already king and he's drawing maps.

>>96461876
Yes! Exactly! He's a competent monarch because monarchs are de facto outside of society by being above it. Conan has a deep bag of tricks born out of his rugged outdoorsmanship and many travels. He will never make a good farmer and he doesn't have what it takes to be a brewer or miller. A Barbarian doesn't have those ties to civility like a Fighter might. But you need someone as a sellsword, sea reaver, burglar, bodyguard, assassin, monarch, hunter, horseman or dungeoneer then you would be wise to call on Conan in every case. That's the Barbarian bag and origin. All the magic powers, totemic spirits & berserker rage stuff is best left to Druids. High level Barbarians should be frightening because they could spring almost anything on you and they're accustomed to fighting with fear, rage & hunger in their hearts all at once. The Barbarian is cool under pressure and comfortable being threatened by primal sources, he does not command nature, he is a survivor that is part of it. When you feel the fear you start sweating, when the Barbarian feels the fear he starts thinking.

>>96457768 (OP)
Its like this because early D&D players wanted play a Conan type figure and Gygax when codifying classes saw the range of Conan as described accurately by >>96461497 and thought it was to overpowered conceptually.
So he made the concept into a dumbass as a "balancing" call.
And because D&D is D&D, it went from there.

>>96457768 (OP)
Barbarian in rpgs = caveman
Barbarian irl = foreign fighter/warrior

>>96462088
Barbarian irl = the huns*

>>96457768 (OP)
Because 'Barbarian' isn't a historical Barbarian, it's Conan the Barbarian. That's literally the whole class. Conan.
It's not hard to understand.

>>96461980
Well keeping in that vein I suppose I'm saying we should have gone the *opposite* direction. Barbarians are cunning warriors and survivors, they don't have the luxury of falling back on civilization or magic so they're pure skill. Barbarians are about CON, INT, STR & WIS they're not magic users or priests. They're not otherworldly warriors, a Druidic warrior tapping into the primal archetype of the bear can afford to be a mindless idiot. As can his friend the ironclad, horse-riding, squire-attended, well-heeled Fighter with the latest in military weaponry. Barbarians, like Conan, should have been defined by being very skilled in everything laying outside of things like cities, holy grounds & arcane study.

>>96462240
"NuH uH!! BuRbaRionz ArE BouT cHArIsmA sO ThEy CaN IntImiDaTE"

>>96458055
In Greek, it's an onomatopoeia because of the babbling they did when trying to speak Greek (bar bar). In Latin, it instead became because of the beards (from the word "barba, ae")

>>96457768 (OP)
Work on your english and you might improve your media literacy.

>>96458729
kek, I appreciate the classically informed humour.

>>96458652
>It's the biggest land area on the planet.
Having looked at world maps of Abeir-Toril, at first glance it doesn't look obviously bigger than Faerun or Kara-Tur and I don't remember fluff saying it is. While it might be the biggest, it's not like it's the biggest by a huge margin.

>>96461450
>taking it back
If that's the angle I'd rather take a word that doesn't make sense for me to take because it means someone respected and important that I, as a foreigner, would never actually be. Why take gaijin when I can call myself Shogun, pissing off everyone in the proccess and titling myself the supreme military commander that usurped the emperor at the same time.

>>96459129
Shitpost aside, I'd play a game about being a knight in Charlemagne's court.

>>96457768 (OP)
Why the OP hate so much the "English language"?

>>96459129
Project Moon is for insufferable trannies and lib arts faggots (i.e. even more insufferable trannies)

>>96459517
Isn't that the little Argentinian nazi boy from Cyber Six?

>>96461497
OP here, don't get me wrong, I don't hate Conan, I actually like it for the reasons you have mentionated.

My problem with the "barbarian" class is that he's just the caveman meme but in Fantasy's Medieval Europe. When the "barbarians" of real life Medieval Europe were people with refined costumes (also pants), weaponry, artifacts, etc.

>>96457768 (OP)
in modern fantasy, there isnt really a hard definition of what a barbarian is. Its some vague mix of caveman, germanic berserker, viking dude, mostly shirtless, maybe some tribal paintings and with lots of fur on the armor, swinging axe. Not too civilized, either noble or just straight savage. But there isnt really anything hard to pinpoint about how their culture and society should actually be like. What their exact vibe and scenes are. Ask 5 people and you will get 5 different answers

>le shirtless barbarian is a myth
Historylet pseud detected who gets his historical "knowledge" from shitty youtubers
The shirtless barbarian is in no way a myth. It existed historically-and howard's conan stories are in no way responsible for it, seeing as conan wears medieval plate armor in more stories than he goes shirtless in.
Trajan's Column literally shows ancient germanic mercenaries fighting in dacia going without tunics or armor to battle. Roman writings confirm that ancient germanic tribes generally went shirtless into battle. Other peoples like the gaelic irish famously disdained armor and wore it little

>>96457768 (OP)
>Is it there a good RPG with proper "barbarians"?
No, since barbarian is just code name for movie Conan aesthetics and not what hellenics called barbarians, (you).

>>96463086
>>96463097
all the historical barbarians who went so unarmored also carried big shields to protect their vulnerable meat

>>96463099
>disprove your retarded point that barbarians never wore armor
>ACTUALLY THEY CARRIED SHIELDS
Something which nobody denied.
And there were other historical barbarians who did not carry shields. Polynesians often carried two handed war clubs which negated the use of shields.

>>96457768 (OP)
Realistic barbarians are just fighters from other cultures

>>96463086
>>96463097
being depicted by artist as shirtless to be more heroic doesnt mean they actually fought shirtless, you big dummy

>>96463115
The myraid of sources by the romans that point to germanic peoples fighting shirtless proves that it wasn't just artistic exaggeration
Trajan's column is noted for it's artistic accuracy. Why would the romans feel the need to make the Germanic mercenaries fighting for their own side look more heroic? It's not like they were fighting them.
Archeological records from Germania show that the iron age germanics were incredibly poor when it came to armor and weaponry. Bone and flint arrowheads were not uncommon, the germanics had practically no domestic armor industry, with most armour in iron age germania being looted or traded from their gallic and roman neighbors.

>>96458055
So what Poles call Germans to this day fittingly

>>96463086
>seeing as conan wears medieval plate armor in more stories than he goes shirtless in
Absolutely false. Conan wears armor in a handful of stories and ends up shirtless in every single one of them (maybe except for Black River, I'd have to check).

>>96463153
Ok, in Frost-Giant's daughter he's armored for the entire time. But otherwise he either undresses or gets undressed or his outfit is torn to rags more consistently than his armor use.

>>96463153
Conan is not shirtless in the phoenix on the sword. The fact that he buckles some of his armor on is what saves his life
>They stopped short. Conan faced them, not a naked man roused mazed and unarmed out of deep sleep to be butchered like a sheep, but a barbarian wide- awake and at bay, partly armored, and with his long sword in his hand.
>"In, rogues!" yelled the outlaw. "He is one to twenty and he has no helmet!"
>True; there had been lack of time to don the heavy plumed casque, or to lace in place the side-plates of the cuirass, nor was there now time to snatch the great shield from the wall. Still, Conan was better protected than any of his foes except Volmana and Gromel, who were in full armor.
Do you actually read the stories or go off pop culture frazetta art?

>>96463153
>>96463161
He goes shirtless because he is either deprived of his armor or because he is sneaking around and swimming. He wears armor in all other situations besides that.
Conan in the hour of the dragon goes from wearing late medieval/renaissance plate armor to wandering around as a mercenary, again dressed in armor. Not exactly going into battle in a loincloth
>Conan rode a great black stallion, the gift of Trocero. He no longer wore the armor of Aquilonia. His harness proclaimed him a veteran of the Free Companies, who were of all races. His headpiece was a plain morion, dented and battered. The leather and mail-mesh of his hauberk were worn and shiny as if by many campaigns, and the scarlet cloak flowing carelessly from his mailed shoulders was tattered and stained. He looked the part of the hired fighting-man, who had known all vicissitudes of fortune, plunder and wealth one day, an empty purse and a close-drawn belt the next.

>>96463168
You cited ONE story.
Meanwhile
>Tower of the Elephant
>Scarlet Citadel
>Hour of the Dragon, from full plate to loincloth and sandals, multiple times
>every single Conan as pirate story, with he exception of Queen of Black Coast
>A Witch Shall Be Born
>Man-Eaters of Zamboula, actually runs around with a stark naked woman in this one
You're the one repeating memes while not actually reading.
I swear I will make a Conan shirt vs armor status excel one day.

>>96463153
Conan is a jobber who keeps getting caught and disarmed constantly and has to bailed out by someone
Also sucks as a thief, every heist of his failed

>>96463189
I never once stated that he does not go shirtless in his stories.
As i have stated multiple times he only goes without armor because he is deprived of it or because he is sneaking/swimming/ climbing something.
He wears armor in any situation he think's he'll go into battle.
And it's not like he lounges around in a loincloth either. He wears medieval clothing as the king of aquilonia.
>It was uncanny, but those watching knew it was no more than the reflected image of Orastes' thought, embodied in that mirror as a wizard's thoughts are embodied in a magic crystal. It floated hazily, then leaped into startling clarity—a tall man, mightily shouldered and deep of chest, with a massive corded neck and heavily muscled limbs. He was clad in silk and velvet, with the royal lions of Aquilonia worked in gold upon his rich jupon, and the crown of Aquilonia shone on his square-cut black mane; but the great sword at his side seemed more natural to him than the regal accouterments.

>>96463220
Conan rarely "goes into battle". Most of his stories are sneaking/swimming/climbing/sailing. And they usually include fighting without armor as well.
In one of the pirate stories he starts off wearing nothing but orange trunks and the story never specifies of he puts on anything else for the duration. So he may as well be running around in those orange trunks and nothing else the entire time. There's also multilevel times where he's hurting badly and going on due to his barbaric resilience, which fits into Con bonus to armor class from 5e.

>>96463262
>Conan rarely "goes into battle".
He does, from the top of my head, in the hour of the dragon, black colossus, the scarlet citadel, a witch shall be born and the people of the black circle. This ignores the melees and skirmishes which he engages in IE in beyond the black river and queen of the black coast, in all of which he wears armor.
>Most of his stories are sneaking/swimming/climbing/sailing. And they usually include fighting without armor as well.
Failing a heist and getting into a fight does not mean conan intended to fight without armor. Conan is in a loincloth in iron shadows in the moonlight because he's been hiding in the swamps for days. Not because he intended to fight without armor. He wears a loincloth in the tower of the elephant because he's climbing a tower, not because he expects to get into physical combat.
>In one of the pirate stories he starts off wearing nothing but orange trunks and the story never specifies of he puts on anything else for the duration.
Because the conan stories are just historical fiction set in a fantasy world and howard was writing a pirate story. Golden age pirates did not wear armor historically you absolute retard. And even then some of the pirates depicted in conan's stories wear armor.
Conan wears armor when he knows he is going to fight. he does not willingly go shirtless into battle. You'd know this if you actually read the conan stories instead of reading the shitty comics.

>>96463139
We call them "mute" which I guess fits too, not a very talkative bunch.

>>96457791
>>96461497
>And when he fights against men his superior body isn't what sets him apart
>it's often his martial skill, which is mental
Very much the opposite.
See pic related how Howard describes Conan fighting a skilled human opponent, like this veteran pirate captain in Pool of the Black one.

>>96461305
agreed. so here's how you play a ranger
>step one: don't pick ranger class
>step two: pick Rogue, Thief, Scout or Arcane Trickster
>step three: multiclass into fighter
>step four: ???
>step five: profit

>>96463327
based Con'Anon

>>96463086
Anon, while is true a number of tribes wore no armor and even little to no clothes, all the Roman art is propaganda. They obviously chose to depict stuff in a way to make their accomplishments more heroic and epic.

>>96458618
Barbarians are = anyone not Main™ nation. Which is almost universally is a version of the medieval Europe, or sometimes not!Roman Empire.

Against that, every other primitive civilizations are barbarians, from celts to arabs to finns to gooks.
They're all less refined, speak nonsense and act retarded.
That's the gist.

>>96458951
>do not try to fool classics majors
So, when your advisor told you there would be jobs waiting for you if you get that Classics degree.....

>>96457768 (OP)
DND made them super lame with the
>rage x number of turns per day
absolute bullshit.

>>96457822
I've been saying this for years. A core mechanical failing of DnD has been the proliferation of unnecessary classes

Barbarian, Monk, Paladin, and Ranger should just be subclasses of Fighter
Warlock should a subclass of Sorceror
Bards should be a subclass of Rogues.
Artificers should be a subclass of Wizard.
Druids should be a subclass of Clerics.

>>96465180
Surely someone must have done this for 5e by now. Right?

>>96457996
The funny is that Conan isn't really a good fit for the D&D class, to the point when he was actually statted, he's a fighter/thief with absolutely zero barb points.
D&D barbarians are more like one of those extras he'd kick the crap out of as an intermission to an adventure.

>>96465256
Yeah, it was being done about 50 years ago when D&D was good.

>>96463190
>every heist of his failed
???
His earliest thief story (chronologically) he successfully infiltrates the ivory tower, slays the giant spider that kills the local king of thieves he's working/competing with, and leaves after mercy killing the giant space elephant who tells him the sad story of his alien wife dying.

>>96461497
>The progenitor is Conan
Bran Mak Morn and Howard's Picts predate Conan as does Kull.

>>96469545
They were also less successful. Conan exists because the magazine didn't want to print Kull.

>>96459129
Toot Toot

>>96469568
It was two magazines. To be clear for others, it was one particular Kull story that was rewritten and expanded into the first Conan story, other Kull stories were published. He just didn't do as good a job with that one. Had he first time round written it in the expanded form it might have sold.

Ignoring the butterfly effect and it being entirely likely that I wouldn't be here typing this, I'm kind of selfishly happy he didn't do a better job with it first time else we wouldn't have Conan and the Hyborian age.

Anyway my point stands, Conan is a progenitor, not the progenitor of barbarians as depicted today. Along with being not the oldest quasi-common ancestor, barbarians in fantasy have a lot of traits not derived from Conan. For example, I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong but beserking is not something Conan did, that's pulled straight out of Norse stories. People from the Asiatic steppes and North American plains and forests have a huge influence. Coming as late in the story of RPG barbarians as they do, TSR made Goldmoon and Riverwind are not!Plains Indian.

>>96457768 (OP)
At the end of the day it's because the "barbarian" is a D&D invention combining the aesthetic of conan with the concept of Scandinavian berserkers and broke-ass tribal warriors. There's really not much to work with in there, the class is pretty much entirely defined by its D&D roots.

>>96457768 (OP)
Why are there more ESL's on tg than ever before

>>96465609
D&D was never good. Even when it was passable (Early 2E) it still wasn't good.

>>96457830
You can tell from the thread title alone that this cunt is ESL.

>>96459778
HAVE AT YOU

>>96461497
>The best fix I see imho is to rebrand Ranger as Barbarian, and give the current Barbarian bag of tricks to Druids. These are cultural discursive categories though so it's not actionable. If you want a "lore accurate" Barbarian however he needs to be a jack of all trades (explicitly besides magic) and yet forced to do odd jobs due to being an unspecialized yokel.

It would likely be better to rebrand the class "Berserker" and then have "Barbarian" be a culture or origin for any class to cover cultural outsider aspects. This would allow the class to focus more on the wild uncontrolled fighter rather than needing to deal with the cultural baggage.

>>96463113
I know, that is the whole point of OPicrel.

>>96470130
Oh you're retarded.

>>96461497
>The best fix I see imho is to rebrand Ranger as Barbarian, and give the current Barbarian bag of tricks to Druids.
Or you could get with the way the majority of people think about the barbarian for decades and cease autistically caring about how the ttrpg/fantasy archetype of the wild raging warrior in little armor who may or may not have ties to nature spirits doesn't line up with old stories of Conan or what the Greeks/Romans called "uncultured" foreigners.

Even then, you can still have your foreign barbarians while still having the barbarian class because only retards will confuse the two. Are you a retard who confuses the two?

>>96458016
>>96458055
>>96458209
>>96462283

You hate Frazetta barbarians because you want some gay "historical accuracy" nonsense.

I hate Frazetta barbarians because I want them clad in bizarre fashions and armor, using strange weapons, and espousing grotesque values as if someone had challenged a Greek to be as offensive, orientalist, and It-came-to-me-in-a-dreamist as possible.

We are NOT the same.

>>96472960
>t. phag

>>96472960
Incredibly based.

>>96465180
>Monk, [...] should just be subclasses of Fighter
Monk should be a subclass of cleric, complete with spellcasting, like the AD&D 2e monk found in Player's Option: Spells & Magic.
I don't think a fantasy world monk really just be an expy of a Shaolin monk.

>>96478654
>I don't think a fantasy world monk [SHOULD] really just be an expy of a Shaolin monk.

Please excuse me, I am a retarded.

>>96470089
>entirely defined by its D&D roots.
D&D must perished and its cultural legacy being wipe out.

>>96472960
>I want them clad in bizarre fashions and armor, using strange weapons, and espousing grotesque values as if someone had challenged a Greek to be as offensive, orientalist, and It-came-to-me-in-a-dreamist as possible
Wow. Challenge accepted

>>96458951
7th Sea has some !Cossacks if memory serves in their !Eastern Europe country.

>>96462819
>>96459129

https://www.chaosium.com/paladin/

>>96459129
>Disney movie
Sometimes you just need a guy

In Black Sword Hack you don't have classes but you have origin points that decide the conditions of your birth and a skill pool to pick from. Barbarian has the obvious rage one, because the audience wants that, but you also have others like a better connection with nature or having great stories to tell from all over the world. It's pretty nice.
The other options are a civilized or decadent place of birth, so barbarian is used for everything that isn't city folk.

>>96461497
Conan didn't have a berserker rage, although there's perhaps a case that Kull of Atlantis did, and it's a nice passage in one of the Kull stories where Kull's gone berserk and Brule's fighting at his side, protecting Kull from the worst attacks as they both kill snake men.

I think it's okay to give the rage to barbarians.

>>96463125
>Why would the romans feel the need to make the Germanic mercenaries fighting for their own side look more heroic?

For the same reason Julius Caesar fought increasingly more badass barbarians every year of his campaign: because it made the Romans look better when they defeated them. The more formidable the opponent the Romans defeated, the greater the glory in the victory.

Do you think the people commissioning the artists told them: "hey, don't make the barbarians look too good, okay? I want to look like I was fighting a weak, impotent foe!!!"?

>>96457768 (OP)
Because Conan is cool you sperg.
Go hit the gym

>>96478656
You are, but not because you skip words.

>>96457768 (OP)
You don't understand what "barbarian" means. "Barbarians" historicaly was used by greeks to speak about other people, so Romans would be barbarians, as much as Celts or germanic tribes. Fantasy barbarian is totaly different, it's more like a mix between vikings, germanic tribes, huns, cavemen, and pornstars.

>>96478920
>must perished
>being wipe out

>>96485140
Only good post in this shit thread.

>>96457863
>>96461322
>>96457996
>>96486140
Why does the word "barbarian" specifically make people sperg about etymology? The English word barbarian is not the same as the ancient Greek bárbaros. It means savage/uncivilized. No one does this with any other word even though they all used to mean different things in the past than they do now.

>>96486470
Because then spergs and self-proclaimed historians wouldn't have anything to argue about.

>>96457791
a ranger is just a fighter who likes the outdoors
a rogue is just a fighter with small swords
a paladin is just a fighter on nofap

>>96463437
>noo class of "swinging sword good" doesn't match the guy who swings his sword good because he's good at swinging his sword!

>>96486140
I undersrand that. Read again OP,
>it's always the half-naked dude or chick that looks like he / she has just wake up after an university party.
Romans, carthaginians, parthians, odryssians, illyrians, etc. didn't look like greentext.

>>96492747
Your proper "barbarian" is just a fighter who comes from another culture than the dominant one.

>>96487332
You don't understand. The very act of passing down your martial techniques makes them weak and unmanly. Real men fight by vibes.

>mfw when RPG wizards just wear robes and wield kungfu staffs that shoot lightning instead of engaging in meticulous study to summon forth Asmodeous to teach the art of calling down the power of the stars
What a dumbass thread.

>>96457791
Literally ALL of the problems in this thread are solved by simply naming the archetype correctly. If you're a D&Dickhead, just know that the class has always used the absolutely wrong name. It is not a barbarian. It is a berserker. There is a difference.
"Barbarian" is a racial outgroup. It'd be like if you named the class "foreigner" or "elf" (could you imagine if classes and races were the same thing...? wow)
Berserker is a fighting style. Specifically, a method of achieving phrenic mania. Making up for lack of skill or equipment with sheer viciousness. Historically, assisted with various drugs that dampened pain sensitivity, too.

So, the OP is asking about barbarians in search of something that fundamentally isn't possible: "barbarian" depends on who you're asking. It was never an objective term. It isn't scholarly. It's just a slur that was applied by some cultures against others. Or, if you really must insist, then you have to ask yourself what you imagine a "barbarian" to be? And then look for examples of that. But you're still not finding barbarians. You're only finding your own stereotypes.

For everyone else in this fucking thread confusing "barbarian" to mean "berserker", PLEASE fucking kill yourselves.

>>96472960
I mean. But.... Frazetta barbarians are literally clad in bizarre motley assembled from whatever furs, teeth, bones, fibers and panels they can drape around themselves. You only find it to be not-bizarre because you're overexposed to a specific trope...

While you ignore the fact that Frazetta fucking ESTABLISHED that trope.

FUCKING DECADES BEFORE YOU WERE FUCKING BORN.

Fucking numpty dumbfuck infantile twat.

>itt: umm ackshyually the original meaning of barbarian is simply "foreigner"
Ok and the original meaning of daemon is a guiding spirit that can be entirely benevolent. All evil hell demons that want to eat your soul are inaccurate and should not be in your games.

We are not in ancient greece anymore. Barbarian means "savage" now.

>>96492980
We must do a Re-Hellenization.

>>96457768 (OP)
Barbarians are thematically closer to berserkers, which are specifically described as going into war 'bare-shirt' and going into a trance-like battle fury.

Once you understand this, your 'tism' should be soothed.

>>96460792
They're literally the same thing, in fantasy media.

>>96457768 (OP)
IRL barbarians are gay. Give me fantasy barbarians any day

as an australian barbarian i prefer to just wear shorts
because its hot

>>96457768 (OP)
Just play Barbaren!, mate

>>96472960
This is something that always struck me. With how many bizarre inhospitable supernatural regions there are in D&D settings, you'd think that Barbarians would better depict the isolated people from those regions.

Barbarians don't end up being warriors from the ash wastes (where a portal to the plane of fire causes random firestorms), where they have cultural elements of Efreet, think slavery is based, and wield chains of fire as weapons, or make armor from the hides of salamanders because survival matters more than whether whatever they turn into clothes is a person.

They instead always end up being to close and connected to civilized areas, rather than some weird exotic clan who aren't just angry shirtless fighters.